By on February 6, 2016

Volkswagen Diesel Sale Disclaimer

The fuel cost savings of a diesel vehicle can be huge for those who eat up highway miles. However, with Volkswagen’s voluntary stop sale of those vehicles implicated in the diesel emissions scandal, you may think you can’t buy one from a Volkswagen dealer.

You’d be wrong.

According to a source who spoke to TTAC under the condition of anonymity, Volkswagen dealers are still able to sell an affected diesel vehicle should it meet certain conditions: that it not be a “certified pre-owned” (CPO) or new vehicle, and that the buyer signs a disclaimer stating they understand the vehicle being purchased pollutes more than government compliance tests initially indicated.

Volkswagen Diesel Sale Disclaimer

According to another source who also spoke to TTAC under the condition of anonymity, some dealers are either not certifying vehicles that could be easily certified, or removing cars from CPO inventory in order to sell them, thus putting those illegally polluting diesels back on the road.

In the past, it’s been financially advantageous for dealers to take those units out of CPO inventory to sell them. A new buyback program, which we reported on yesterday, should keep certain first-generation EA189-powered cars from returning to service, but not all.

Representatives from Volkswagen Group of America have yet to confirm the buyback program. A representative from Volkswagen Canada was unavailable for comment.

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77 Comments on “You Still Want to Buy a Volkswagen TDI? Sign Here...”


  • avatar
    derekson

    I’m actually pretty tempted to buy one as the prices have crashed. I saw a nice 2011 Golf TDI for sale the other day for $12k with like 30k miles. That car would’ve been 21k before the scandal.

    • 0 avatar
      DenverMike

      Do we know it won’t be banned from the roads? Or forced a ‘fix’ to stay on the road?

      And can you sell it to a new owner ‘asis’, years from now? Or just scrap?

    • 0 avatar

      For $12K I would rather buy a new Hi End amplifier or pair of high end speakers. Would be a better investment than old and tired VW not resellable to boot.

      • 0 avatar
        DenverMike

        What’s the specs on a $24K or more, sound system? I’ve heard others here speak of such, but last year I completed a new ‘man cave’ 1,000 watt, 7 channel Denon/Sony/Fosgate/other “system” for less than $2,200

        Eighteen 4-ohm speakers, 8 of them 12″ and 15″ subs, all in series-pairs for 8-ohm loads. If so desired, more than enough dBs, nowhere near distortion, for permanent hearing loss.

        • 0 avatar

          Spec does not tell you all. By specs Camry is better than A6. Denon/Sony/Fosgate/other is not even in the picture. At $24K we are not talking about crap made by mainstream manufacturers. For $12K in total you can have a very decent high end system from specialized companies like Parasound, Pass Labs,OPPO Digital, Revel, KEF and so on. But more money you ready to spend better system you get. If you are able to hear the difference of course. Most folks are happy with mp3s and CDs would also would be happy with Toyota, Honda,Sony, Denon or Marantz because not able to feel difference. But those who can would not even consider that crap. You can buy wine for $8 too and many people do just that.

  • avatar

    Can’t wait to get my ’11 Jetta TDi out of recon to see how many dozen of rolls of wrapped quarters I can sell it for…

  • avatar
    seth1065

    I can see why dealers would do this but VW corp will still have to fix them so it will still cost them cash.

    Also Any idea what happen to the 2016 TDI that were stuck at the ports?? Still there, shipped somewhere else??

    • 0 avatar
      993cc

      I wonder if VW would claim that by signing “Appendix A”, the new owner, having knowingly bought a non-compliant vehicle, takes on the responsibility for bringing that vehicle into compliance.

      Whoops. I didn’t read the large print. They explicitly say they will cover compliance costs.

  • avatar

    My dealer wouldn’t even assist in the buyout of the lease on my TDi….it was like a live snake.

    All the TDi cars are pushed to the back of the lot.

    If I lived in a “non inspection” state, I’d be all over a lightly used TDi,and the first thing I’d do is a Malone tune and toss all the clearly useless cat-cons, etc in the exhaust.

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al From 'Murica

      So…Rolling Coal Then?

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      even if a state doesn’t do inspections, there’s nothing to stop them from refusing the registration of *known non-compliant vehicles* (i.e. un-fixed VWs.)

      • 0 avatar
        hybridkiller

        Non-CARB states aren’t likely to arbitrarily refuse registrations – they’d only be giving up revenue, and they’re not going to do that. That is unless compelled by Fed mandate, and that’s not likely to happen either – the EPA has already said as much.

        • 0 avatar
          notwhoithink

          Has the EPA already said as much? They’ve said that they are legal and safe to operate, not that they will always be legal to operate. There’s no way the EPA could have gotten away with parking 475k cars when the scandal broke, especially when there was no fix available to the people stuck with them. But after there has been a fix available for a reasonable amount of time, they could easily close the door. After all, the vehicles don’t meet legal requirements.

          • 0 avatar
            hybridkiller

            There was a Reuters article a few months back (iirc it was linked in a piece on this site) quoting an unnamed EPA official saying something to the effect that they had no intention of punishing owners or legally compelling them to bring their cars in for the fix. Said official also stated that it would be too problematic to enforce even if they wanted to mandate it.

            These vehicles did not meet legal requirements to be imported and sold – that’s not the same as being legal to own and drive, which is a discretionary issue that has yet to be resolved.

  • avatar
    NickS

    So, in essence, the buy-back program for dealer CPO stock as reported in the earlier article is less financially advantageous to dealers?

    The question is, can dealers easily take TDIs out of CPO, and if so, what is there to prevent them from doing so and selling them with a signed disclaimer?

    This offer to buy back CPOs may actually have been forced on VW by the regulators who are bolstering further their legal case against VW, with evidence that the stop-sale program was poorly thought out and executed to the point where it became ineffective.

    VW is on track to make this the most protracted and agonizing death to an iconic brand in corporate history. Owners, dealers, customers, regulators, analysts, shareholders, workers, politicians, the stock market, the car market (15% down!) … they are all getting tired of the foot-dragging. Swallow the bitter pill FFS, and be done with it.

    • 0 avatar
      tedward

      I think there was an article early on in this about vw starting to setup exactly this sort of program for their dealers. This sounds like that program. In the meantime the dealers own the used cars they have. I’m not sure why the earlier story was such a big deal, they’ve always been able to sell the used ones. It’s been discussed here before in the comments.

    • 0 avatar
      notwhoithink

      I wouldn’t call the stop-sale ineffective. VW can only regulate so much with dealers. They basically said you can’t sell new or CPO TDIs. Dealers could still sell non-CPO used TDIs, because they’re used cars and VW no longer has a stake in them. This wouldn’t be any different than buying a used TDI on the corner used car lot or any other non-VW dealer. The CPO cars are only available from VW dealers, and CPO is only available on cars that meet VW’s standards, and they come with additional assurances from VW, not the dealer. Consequently they are only available from authorized VW dealers.

      In effect, VW basically said “you can’t sell anything that puts us on the hook for anything, but if you want to sell used TDIs so you can compete with everyone else then have at it”.

  • avatar
    Jeff Waingrow

    As a current GTI owner, I hate to admit it, but this is getting more sordid by the minute. Much as like my car, I’d have to think more than twice before I bought another VW product. I can’t be alone in this regard, I wouldn’t think.

    • 0 avatar
      Notadude

      Jeff, I have been thinking about this a lot too. If my Golf tdi gets returned to VW, then what? After studying the issue, though, my conclusion is that the Golf is the best car I’ve ever had. I’m pissed that I was forced into involuntary douchebaggery for driving the little thing, but those people in Wolfsburg do know how to make vehicles.

    • 0 avatar
      Steve Lynch

      As a GTI owner too, I agree. As I recently wrote here, the way VW dribbles out info, what happens to us if they say,”Um, we forgot, our gas turbo engines are also illegal.” The resale value on the GTI is still strong but would collapse.

      • 0 avatar
        Hummer

        I don’t really see how their gas engines could possibly be illegal, the technology to make gas engines compliant is very simple and unrestrictive, there’s nothing to gain from making a gas engine that fails testing.

        Sure the euro gassers failed but they’re tested for CO2, which, so far, our EPA hasn’t passed anything that stupid.

      • 0 avatar
        Wheatridger

        No reason to worry about that, Steve. No manufacturer has reported any particular problems with meeting the gas engine regulations over the past decade. Those regs are generally attainable, so there would have been no need for cheating. The NOx regs are another matter. They grew dramatically stricter by 2009, forcing every other diesel maker to add more complex and effective emissions gear. VW’s “Clean Diesel” seemed to be a breakthrough tech against a known challenge. That should have aroused more doubt than it did, but hey, we wanted our TDIs, didn’t we?

  • avatar
    brn

    Hang on! It’s my air that’s being polluted when someone else buys a VW diesel. So, it’s OK for someone else to pollute my air, as long as they understand they’re doing it?

    Pollution laws don’t exist to protect the purchaser. They exist to protect everyone. Why do we only care about the small minority?

    Btw: Don’t take this as my being unsympathetic to those that were duped into purchasing what they thought was a LEV. I am, but I feel that we need to refocus a to who is the victim. It’s everyone.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      This is why I think that CARB and the EPA may require a fix for all TDIs on the road, or removal of the unfixable ones from the road.

      Those who say they won’t take them in for the fix, or will buy one cheap and modify it somehow, are misguided.

      All the Feds have to do is track the registrations of these cars, and block anyone from renewing the registration of a non-compliant vehicle. Whether or not you live in a ‘test state’ may not matter, because they violate Federal standards.

      All non-compliant TDIs could become radioactive.

      • 0 avatar
        ajla

        Is there any prececendent to the EPA tracking individual registrations or blocking registrations?

        If not, I could see at least some states digging in and making it more trouble than it is worth to catch those that purposely avoid a fix. Plus, people may just be able to undo whatever VW implements to get in compliance.

        • 0 avatar
          JimZ

          I don’t know if there’s precedent, but these aren’t federal courts. there doesn’t need to be. All that needs to happen is state DMVs, or SOS, or whatever just up and say “These VW/Audi vehicles are known to be non-compliant with the standards they were subject to, so after (whatever) date we will no longer allow the registration or renewal of same unless the owner has documentation stating the repair(s) to return them to compliance has been performed.”

          That’s it. operating a car on public roads is a privilege. There’s no need for legal precedent.

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            Yea, but in your scenario it is still the *states* enforcing things, not the EPA. What if the individual states don’t care much or actively hate the existence of the EPA?

            I’m in Florida, we don’t have any emission testing, and I have doubts our governor, SOS, or AG are going to make TDI compliance an issue.

            The Feds might be able to push the issue but that has the potential to turn into a State’s Rights sh*tshow.

            My guess is the the intesity of compliance enforcement on this is going to be left up to each state. Which will range from lots to nothing.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            AFAIK the EPA has the power to compel the states to do this. And “States’ Rights” isn’t some “what-eva, I do what I want!” magic phrase. Regardless of what some of the more camo-clad members of our society might think.

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            “AFAIK the EPA has the power to compel the states to do this”

            That was the question in my original comment. I don’t know what powers the EPA has over the state registration and titling processes. I know it seems they can’t require each state to do emission testing.

            If limiting vehicle registrations after the initial sale is an authority that the EPA has and they’ve successfully used before then there probably won’t be an issue.

            If this is something the EPA is going to try for the first time or if it something they don’t have a specific mandate for then some of the state governments might dig in or just largely ignore it.

            The EPA doesn’t have a ton of resources so I don’t know how much pushback they can fight against or how close an eye they can keep on each state.

            And, like I also said before, in the regions that don’t do testing, there isn’t anything but conscience to stop a TDI zealot from reversing things.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            Vehicle registration is largely a state matter, but the feds do have some authority such as through the Clean Air Act to impose requirements on inspections, etc.

            Not sure what jurisdiction that the feds have to prevent a used vehicle from being re-registered, but I suspect that it’s limited at most.

            Theoretically, the feds could seize all of the cars if it wanted to. In practice, that is highly unlikely to happen and I wouldn’t worry about it. As a practical matter, it is likely that VW will be the only one who pays the price for this, not the vehicle owners.

        • 0 avatar

          I think the precedent is there. Look at what they did with state registered grey marker Rovers and Skylines a few years ago. They were illegally sold in the US hence the Feds can grab them.

          • 0 avatar
            bumpy ii

            Yep, as it stands right now every one of the subject TDIs was illegally imported into the US via falsified paperwork. So far CARB and EPA have taken an attitude of “bring the cars into accord with the paperwork”, but if VW and/or a large enough number of owners don’t do that, then seizure and destruction is a possibility. The owners would, of course, have ample cause to sue VW for compensation in that event, but that wouldn’t let them keep their cars.

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            That’s a good point. DHS definitely has the ability to seize property in violation of EPA rules.

            I’m not sure how directly that applies to registration, but it might not matter if they go the route they took with the Rovers.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            The Feds can find ways to do almost anything they like and even if they are wrong you slug it out with them for years in appellate courts at your expense. I do not believe the Feds want to get so involved as to seize the personal property of 400,000 people. Seizing the Land Rovers was easy because of the scale involved, had their been 400,000 of them I believe another course of action would have been taken.

            Here’s the latest on what seems to be happening:

            Evidently VAG will buy CPO eligible cars from dealers

            -This is a nice move because it makes it look like they are doing something when they really aren’t doing much.
            -Throws a bone to dealers who have any TDI inventory in stock for CPO and possibly would apply to new unsold models in floorplan.
            -Because these cars are newer, they can more easily exported and sold to other world regions thus mitigating the cost of the whole buyback depending on currency conversions.
            -This might take 30,000 out of circulation

            VAG will target other low hanging fruit, such as TDIs which already have urea hardware present.

            -This is probably already being researched or tested, and in my view will most likely be the next move. Maybe 30,000 out of the pool.

            The fix deployed in Europe last November may become the model for a fix.

            -The software and wire mesh fix for the EA189 2.0 which was released in Europe (or a variation) may find its way to this shore.
            -This EA189 evidently is a large chunk of the affected models, so if it worked maybe half of the remaining models could be fixed.

            In summary, VAG in the interest of cost wants to buy back as few of the vehicles as possible and would prefer a cheaper per unit fix. They are choosing to buy back the newest models because the scale is relatively small and cost of the buyback will be negligible once the cars are exported.

      • 0 avatar
        Kyree S. Williams

        I’m actually really annoyed at some of my fellow TDI drivers, who are all like, “F**k the EPA! These cars are great! They won’t touch mine!”

        No. Take a trip to any major city in China and you’ll see why the EPA matters. Just because I drive one of those vehicles and love it does not mean that I excuse VW’s wanton pollution, and neither should anyone else.

      • 0 avatar
        hybridkiller

        “This is why I think that CARB and the EPA may require a fix for all TDIs on the road, or removal of the unfixable ones from the road.”

        Several months ago a Reuters piece quoted an unnamed EPA official saying it was highly unlikely that current owners would be compelled or punished in any way regarding the “fix”. Even if you doubt the source, common sense would dictate that any attempt by the Feds to compel owners would result in a clusterfvck of breathtaking proportions (CARB state regs may be another matter).

        I own an affected vehicle in a non-CARB state and I’m not even slightly worried about it.

    • 0 avatar
      seth1065

      BRN,
      Not saying your incorrect but I am really not sure how much my TDI pollutes vs some other car and if the gov really wanted to do more for clean air they would find a way to cut emissions for the roll coal group and long hall drivers, or have every state be a emission test state. in the overall picture VW is a tiny amount of pollution because they sell so few cars, I am not sure why this solves for them except if you buy a TDI now used from a dealer you can not sue VW, all of these cars will have to be fixed, offered to be fixed or bought back at some price. I think the issue regarding pollution and VW will be if folks who own them live in a non test state they do not have to do any fix, I live in a test state so my choice will be fix it or sell it back to vW, since I do not know what the fix is yet( and it sounds like VW does not either) it is a wait and see decision. I think if they can figure out a way to make it clean to meet the test and I lose 10 of my MPG I may be OK with that assuming VW will now warranty the crap out of their fix

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al From 'Murica

        What exactly is the ratio of polluting TDI’s to trucks “rolling coal”? What I mean is that all of these TDI VW’s pollute. Even if they don’t sell many they all illegally pollute. When it comes to full sized pickups, most sold are not diesels and of those diesels the vast majority remain stock and even among the small percentage of those that are modded, most do not “roll coal”. Long haul trucks have not been demonstrated to be violating any standards. You speak as if every diesel pickup on the road has stacks and a “Prius Repellent” sticker. I have seen 2 and I live in Georgia!

      • 0 avatar
        redliner

        ” if the gov really wanted to do more for clean air they would find a way to cut emissions for the roll coal group”

        It’s one thing to ignore a few isolated violations, and quite another to allow a multi-billion dollar companies to openly ignore the law hundreds of thousands of times, lie to to customers about it, and accept tax incentives based on lies.

        The problem is not the fact that TDI cars pollute. All ICE cars pollute. The problem is lying about how much.

        • 0 avatar
          JimZ

          those isolated violations are also already illegal pretty much everywhere. but they’re “Fix-it” tickets which in many cases can be waived if the owner returns with proof of repair. Someone’s going to have to lean on city/county governments to actually tell their officers to cite those hicks rolling coal instead of just sitting back and nabbing people going 5 mph over the speed limit.

    • 0 avatar
      Hummer

      15 years ago diesels didn’t even have pollution control and there wasn’t widespread health problems, obviously a few places suffered worse than others, but point is, punishing VW is more important than getting a couple VWs off the road that, while not compliant, still possess pollution control devices that are cleaner than every diesel from the 90s.

      I’m not supporting VW, but generally speaking, these aren’t hurting the general populace.

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        someone needs to explain to you what “long term” and “cumulative” mean when talking about health. For a while, people thought the same thing about tetraethyl lead in gasoline.

        • 0 avatar
          Hummer

          Long term 50k diesel VWs that account per a fraction of a percent of road going vehicles, that are still emitting only a fraction of the emissions of diesels from 15 years ago, is still small enough to not matter in the big picture.

          • 0 avatar
            Kyree S. Williams

            I still say it’s not okay. Yes, overall standards are better than they ever were, but that doesn’t mean VW should be allowed to sell cars that pollute excessively. And really, who cares if these VWs pollute less than the diesels in the 90s? The standards have changed. VW needs to be punished for clearly and blatantly violating those standards. And they need to fix it.

            I love my car…love, love, love it. But I’m more concerned about the environment and about our general welfare. Allowing Volkswagen to get away with this would send a clear message that our emissions standards and those of other countries don’t matter…when in fact, they very much do.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            Your not catching on, I’m not trying to VW a pass, I’m just saying those calling to disallow owners that have paid money for these cars to drive them are in the wrong. Yes they need to fix it, but if it turns out that it’s not possible to fix these cars, well fine the bejeezus out of them and let the owners keep their cars.

            The only one that should be financially affected is VW, not a single owner should be inconvienenced by VWs incompetence.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Your tune will change when the statists want to legislate your product or favorite technology out of existence.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        I smoked a cigarette and didn’t immediately get lung cancer, therefore cigarettes don’t hurt anyone!

    • 0 avatar
      TrailerTrash

      Get a grip! Folks, this is once again an issue gone nuts.

      You wanna talk about taking responsibility for crap? Then how about spending ink on real issues? How about all those vets that died because government managers rigged the system after failed care? And still nobody lost a job or pay.

      Perhaps there is a number of health issues and actual deaths caused by this VW sin. But there are REAL numbers for other corp and government cheating…and nobody ever gets punished.

      OK…maybe this is a car site and we need to talk car stuff, but we cheat here. We spent a ton of ink on that Flint bull and that is not car stuff.
      Or Chicago police wrecking their dash cams.

      Hell…just yesterday I was reading about those scum IRS managers that padded their expense reports for a million and not only were not fired…but just got their positions back and can now demand back pay. Why? Because a judge decided they were unfairly singled out when people d do bad suff all the time.

      Wait your honor. What? Because people get away with punishment…everybody can????

      And I still don’t think anybody at the EPA lost their jobs for filling the river in Colorado with chemicals. And not for other similar eco disasters.

      So let’s kind of lighten up on demanding heads at VW when we seem to easily forget other cheaters. This VW thing is like 3 features a week on TTAC.

      Today in government all you gotta do is wait, sit it out, and CNN will change the light focus to another roach and you will skate away.

      Nobody has died here….

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        “Get a grip! Folks, this is once again an issue gone nuts.

        You wanna talk about taking responsibility for crap? Then how about spending ink on real issues? How about all those vets that died because government managers rigged the system after failed care? And still nobody lost a job or pay.

        Perhaps there is a number of health issues and actual deaths caused by this VW sin. But there are REAL numbers for other corp and government cheating…and nobody ever gets punished.”

        those are not within the EPA’s purview. you act like only one thing can be addressed at any given time.

    • 0 avatar
      chris724

      The air is not really being polluted. This entire “scandal” is artificially created by the Obama gov’t, which hates Europeans.

    • 0 avatar
      brn

      Baring a couple of conspiracy theories (hi chris724), this is one of the healthier debates I’ve seen in an Internet forum. Neither side is really calling the other wrong, just different viewpoints.

      I wish all debates went this well.

      • 0 avatar
        Hummer

        Once a blue moon…

      • 0 avatar
        hybridkiller

        “…this is one of the healthier debates I’ve seen in an Internet forum. Neither side is really calling the other wrong, just different viewpoints.

        To a large extent we’re in uncharted territory here, and this situation is so complex with so many moving parts that even some of the “B&B” who are masters of oversimplification can’t paint this thing in black and white, despite their fondness for that approach.

    • 0 avatar
      Pricha33

      what I fail to understand is this, all the pre 2009 TDI would release the same NoX and HC as the newer maligned clean diesels, so while they fail to meet the new stringent EPA regulations they aren’t any worse than what was legal for the earlier model years. People discuss these like they are massively polluting dregs of society, so my 2004 is OK but the other guys 2010 is not.

      • 0 avatar
        DenverMike

        Earlier model year diesels, or ‘pre emissions’ obviously pollute worse than “Clean Diesels”, but ‘pre emissions’ were just that, dirty diesels, except you knew exactly what you were buying.

  • avatar
    ExPatBrit

    They should “brand” the title on cars that are not fixed within a certain time.

    That way future resale is going to be very limited, you certainly won’t be able to finance and maybe only insure for dimished value.

    Frankly I don’t care that your 5 year old VW pollutes less than my gas chain saw or my classic car as neither of those are used or driven every day.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      they don’t have to. VIN character #8 is the engine type. “Let’s see, 2010 VW Jetta, 8th VIN ‘J’? Nope on a rope!”

      • 0 avatar
        Wheatridger

        As I understand it, the impacts of NOx in the atmosphere vary greatly in different weather. Hot and sunny conditions cause NOx to cook into low-level ozone, which is the threat to human health. Most of our country experiences hot summers, just as much of Europe doesn’t. So a TDI driven in Seattle or Buffalo would do much less harm than one in Dallas or Denver. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?

        In a rational world, the NOx-ious TDIs would be legal only in Canada, Northern Europe and the wintry US states, where they could continue to provide lower-carbn transportation.

      • 0 avatar
        ExPatBrit

        Yes we enthusiasts could figure that out via the VIN. But even then without documentation you wouldn’t know if it was already fixed or deemed unfix-able.

        An average person buying a TDI from “Honest Al Autos” or craiglist might be not be so diligent.

        A branded title gets your attention and if you make it so the brand once attached can’t ever be removed you add a little urgency to fix it.

  • avatar
    audiphile

    The cars without urea injection are not fixable – watch Bob Lutz speak on this on Autoline Afterhours (or ask anyone else in the industry that tried and failed to produce a legal diesel with the equipment VW uses). VW cannot possibly get it to pass the EPA rules.

    But I for one think that taking these cars off the road is misguided. If you count the energy that it took to produce, market, ship and sell these cars, it would be a huge waste to the environment to just crush them.

    Think of it this way – for every good useful car that gets crushed, someone somewhere will have to make another one to replace it, which takes a HUGE amount of energy and makes by far more pollution then just letting these remaining TDI’s serve out their lifespans.

    As far as numbers of these cars, proportionally – they don’t even make up a significant part of 1% of cars on the road to affect the air quality here in the US.

    Instead of wasting resources buying back and crushing TDI’s – force Volkswagen to pay for R&D toward renewable energy and enforce that they are making progress toward electric cars.

    • 0 avatar
      RideHeight

      “force Volkswagen to pay for R&D toward renewable energy and enforce that they are making progress toward electric cars.”

      Yes! Punish them with the same arrogant misappropriation of their wealth for hopeless causes that US taxpayers have endured since the ’60s!

      What a Bwa-ha-ha moment we could have.

      • 0 avatar
        audiphile

        I have an electric car that I use for my daily commute. I live in a state where coal is not the primary source of electricity. Explain to me how that is a “Hopeless cause”.

        • 0 avatar
          JimZ

          because there are more people in this world than just you.

          • 0 avatar
            audiphile

            That’s a good answer for any question, good for you.

          • 0 avatar
            RideHeight

            Every boondoggle has its beneficiaries or it wouldn’t have been launched in the first place.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Most of those people don’t really matter in the grand scheme. In fact in one could argue there is a significant surplus in third world populations which is already beginning to have profound effects on the rest of the planet. If one truly wants to embrace the green religion, they would quickly recognize the 450K TDI owners have negligible impact on the environment at best and proportionally a larger impact could be derived from handling the excess one to three billion in some way. Realistically there are not enough resources for all seven billion to live a Western lifestyle, but of course putting action in place is playing God.

            Oh and many of these vehicles will end up in the third world where their new owners will enjoy excellent fuel economy, I doubt they will be bought up and crushed en masse.

          • 0 avatar
            RideHeight

            ” but of course putting action in place is playing God.”

            Causing a pregnancy is playing God, too. Causing billions of them is an act of aggression against us all. Hit ’em.

          • 0 avatar
            John

            The answer to “The problem is too many people on this planet” is always “So, kill yourself.”

          • 0 avatar
            RideHeight

            Yep, that’s how we handled Native Americans and we gave them the booze to do it.

    • 0 avatar
      rpn453

      I’m with you, audiphile. The energy and resources have already been invested into these vehicles. They make up an extremely minor portion of the vehicles on the road, and they pollute far less than a lot of other, more common, vehicles on the road, along with other ICE-powered machinery and toys that are allowed to exist.

      I’d punish VW severely for this debacle, but leave the existing vehicles and their owners alone.

      I don’t even like diesel as a passenger vehicle fuel, but I wouldn’t mind if every single non-compliant modern TDI were sent to the Canadian prairies, where I live. The only TDIs that have offended me from an emission standpoint are very old ones in a poor state of maintenance, and it is rare that I encounter those. I must encounter 1000 poorly maintained gasoline vehicles for every offensive TDI. I frequently have to put up with the stench and noise of 3/4-ton diesel brodozers and construction equipment, and even the seemingly stock diesel light and heavy trucks are often noxious.

  • avatar

    I think it is a hoax. Cannot be real.

  • avatar
    Robert.Walter

    Just prevent cars from being retitled and relicensed and see how quickly open recalls get fixed. For recalls that can’t be immediately completed due to parts shortage, fine OEMs 250-1000 $/day. This should both motivate the OEMs to move and satisfy owners who can’t sell their vehicles.


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