New Or Used?

AutoNation Wildly Profitable While Car Prices Are Grotesquely High

With automobile prices ballooning to egregiously high levels, one might assume that the industry would be in rough shape. But they’d be dead wrong. Supply chain disruptions have actually created a captive market where consumers are desperate to lay their hands on whatever products are available. In the automotive realm, this has allowed retailers to set ludicrous prices and rake in larger profits per transaction. While inflation may eventually catch up to these entities, the gravy train is currently parked at the station and dousing big business with its warm, brown effluence.

Nobody knows this better than the folks at AutoNation. Because the company just released a quarterly profit report that blew its rosiest projections out of the water. Net income its ongoing operations was $361.7 million for Q3 2021, double the $182.6 million witnessed in Q3 of 2020, while revenue rose 18 percent to $6.4 billion.

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BMW 2 Series April's Fastest-Selling Used Vehicles

April’s fastest-selling used vehicles were led by the BMW 2 Series, according to iSeeCars. The 20 fastest-selling used vehicles averaged 28.7 days, 1.2-1.7 times faster than it took to sell an ordinary used vehicle. The fastest-selling used vehicles included a mix of sports cars, luxury vehicles, hybrids, and minivans.

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Vehicle Miles Traveled On The Rise Again

In March, vehicle miles traveled (VMT) rebounded to pre-pandemic levels. According to the Auto Care Association, this was the first month since August 2019 that VMT topped 300 million miles. To give you some perspective, the distance between the earth and the moon is only 238,856 miles, according to Wikipedia.

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QOTD: Does Color Affect Resale Value?

Color counts when selling or buying a car. But which colors help or hurt? iSeeCars.com, a car search engine, performed exhaustive research on this topic, recently publishing the results.

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Pandemic Changes Car Buying Plans, Or Has It?

The pandemic has changed car buying plans for nearly three out of four shoppers who intended to buy in the next six months. New research from Comscore Automotive Data Mart, cited in a story today by Auto Remarketing, indicated the pandemic tops the concerns of four out of ten who had intended to buy.

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QOTD: What New Vehicle Would You Picture Yourself In?

Jan, Toyota’s innocuous ad spokesperson, poses our question of the day (QOTD) to picture yourself in a new Toyota. We’re asking, what new vehicle of any make would you picture yourself in? Assuming, of course, dealers still exist.

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Retro Is Your Future: Honda Confirms Production of an EV That's Hard Not to Love

Electric vehicles. Yawn, right? It’s easy to be cynical about the high-flying production promises tossed about by practically every automaker, but if the real-life version of Honda’s Urban EV Concept looks half as quirky as the show car, the big H might have a bonafide green hit on its hands.

As the Geneva Motor Show opens to journalists, Honda has announced a production version of the retro-styled hatchback. It turns out CEO Takahiro Hachigo wasn’t lying when he said the Urban EV wasn’t just auto show eye candy.

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Americans Loving Their Leases, Not so Much Their Loans

Good times have clearly arrived, because Americans are flinging money at cars like it’s going out of style.

Leasing has never been more popular for American car buyers, reports the Detroit Free Press, and the size of their auto loans have also reached record territory.

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New or Used?: Should This Mustang Man Get a Minivan?

Hi folks,

I have a ’15 Subaru WRX and a ’68 Ford Mustang. I pick my daughter up from daycare everyday. When the weather is nice, I drive the Mustang.

My wife and I are thinking of having a second kid, which would render my Mustang unusable since there’s no middle seat and zero space behind the driver. I’ve been lurking on a bunch of model-specific sites and on The H.A.M.B., but I can’t find much info on classics that will fit two car seats comfortably, at least one of which would be rear-facing.

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New or Used?: German Car Lover Wants Germanic German From Germany

TTAC commentator tedward writes:

Hey Steejeev,

I thought I’d finally throw my hat into the ring as my wife and I are on the hunt for a second family car.

We currently own a ’91 BMW 318is and a ’13 Volkswagen Jetta Sportwagen 2.5 — both manual, of course. In our previous lives as NYC residents, this was an extravagant stable that required personal sacrifice and demanded constant justification in casual conversation.

On one hand, we find ourselves with one real life car that fits us all; on the other, a relatively unsafe car that shouldn’t be relied upon (at 200,000+ miles) for day-to-day duties.

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New or Used?: Kiss My Yuppie Ass Edition

Hi Sajeev and Steve,

I’ve always enjoyed this column, and several years ago I took a piece of the advice you provided: I bought a used Ford Taurus for a teen driver.

Anyway, I’m curious for your thoughts on what we should drive now. My wife and I have long commutes as well as 3 children. It’ll be a year before the oldest can sit up front and, at that point, the youngest can go from a massive car seat to a booster.

I log about 18,000 miles per year in an E39 M5. I have little time for it to be down, though I can borrow a relative’s extra car in a pinch. As expected, the car costs a few thousand to maintain per year, plus fuel is about $3,000 per year at today’s prices.

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New or Used: A Used Car's Silent Ricochet?

Riddle me this, GradDad…(photo courtesy: Honda)

TTAC Commentator Silent Ricochet writes:

After almost 6 years and 55,000 mostly reliable miles, the Cavalier must go.

I knew the car was aging and I thought it could make it another year. I recently graduated with my Bachelor’s Degree back in May and since then my Cavalier has been on a steep decline in terms of safety and reliability.

Within the last month alone, I’ve blown three brake lines, the first of which almost resulted in my death. Today, I got the car on a lift for the first time since perhaps last summer in an attempt to fix my third blown brake line (for the rear brakes) and what my two mechanic friends and I saw was horrifying.

The amount of frame rot was staggering. The two of them, with their eyes wide and mouths agape, looked at each other and then looked at me. “Why the f**k are you driving this thing?” One asked. The other said “You shouldn’t be. I’m surprised your parents let you, to be honest.” I thought they were exaggerating. They weren’t. The rust is unbelievably bad.

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New or Used: Terminating the Terminal Lease Deal?

Steve (not Lang) writes:

My wife has a 2013 Prius with a total of 36,000 allowable miles over the 36 month lease through June 2016. The problem is she now drives more and is already at 37,500+ miles! At 0.25 cents per mile, it will add up quickly.

Should we just plan on buying the Prius from Toyota for 16,400 at the end of the lease term? Or should we take a negative equity hit today, cash out and buy a 2015/2016 Honda Accord Sport/EX? We could be looking at $4,000 in lease payment to roll into a new deal to get out of Prius. We kind of learned our lesson to not do a lease since now she drives a lot.

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New or Used: Red Rover, Red Rover. Should Tim Get A Land Rover?

Tim writes:

Tim from Hooniverse here, looking to see what you and the B&B have to suggest.

I’m writing for recommendations to replace my ’69 Wagoneer as the Family Dirtwagon. The Wagoneer’s great as a 46-year-old classic, but it’s a 46-year-old classic, and is a little too old, project-y and fragile for what I need. We’re talking about the fourth car in the fleet, aside my wife’s Mazda5 (6MT FTW!), my ’64 Falcon and the ’62 Ranchero LeMons racer.

What’s it need to do?

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New Or Used: Wishing For Simpler Times

Hi Sajeev & Steve,

“You have not covered extensively the problems encountered by GDI engines, especially Mitsubishi Dion (the engine is 4G63). As the revs go beyond the 2000 rpm, the ‘check engine’ light comes on, then eventually the engine — if forced — cuts off. After a few minutes, the engine can start but it does not take long before it repeats. I was told by a mechanic to buy a new pressure pump. This was fitted but the problem has not gone away. Please help!”

Ummm… we think your mechanic needs to keep away from Runaround Sue.

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New Or Used? The $25,000 Question

Michael writes:

This August, we will have a 23-year-old German au pair coming to live with us. She will be taking care of our three boys – ages 6, 4, and 1. I am looking for transportation for said au pair that fulfills the following criteria:

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Tesla Preparing To Enter CPO Market By 2016

Always wanted to own a Tesla Model S, but couldn’t get past the $71,070 base price? CEO Elon Musk has a plan to make it easier to bring one home: CPO sales.

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New Or Used? : Try To Hit Em' Where They Ain't

Hi Steve,

I have been trying to find a Lexus GX470 for several months now. Either a 2012 or a 2013.

What I have found is that these vehicles simply don’t exist here in Tennessee.

I have gone through every Lexus dealer in the state, along with a few others that are out of state. I can’t find a GX anywhere.

So I thought that maybe I should try to look at a Toyota Sequoia, or maybe even a Toyota Tundra instead. I have found a few of these vehicles at the dealerships, but the prices are stupid high, and I just can’t justify paying what they want me to pay.

I am a cash customer, and I don’t think I’m too picky when it comes to cars. What I wanted to ask you is whether you can actually find a good deal on a late model GX at the auctions.

Steve Says:

No.

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New or Used? : Sadly, Infiniti Will Never Sell An M80

Dear Mr. Lang,

Your most recent article put the final nail in the C4 coffin for me and for that, I’m everlastingly grateful.

The VW GTI is but a distant infatuation, another foolish pleasure set aside.

Onward to the Infiniti M35.

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New or Used? : Why Are Old Corvettes So Cheap?

O.K. SteveWhy are old Corvettes so cheap ? .

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New or Used? : Vroom! Crunch! Cha-Ching!

Source: Gallagher.com

Troyochatter submits this request for your perusal.

Hey there, I have a dilemma that you might be able to help with.

Got a sec?

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New Or Used? : A Mitzvah For The Mazda

I have a 10 year old Mazda Protege which I have loved ever since new.

There is just one small problem.

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New or Used? : At $5.00 A Gallon, The Crown Vic Doesn't Cut It

Hi Steve,

I’m a 17 year old in grade 12 who purchased his first car about six months ago, a ’96 Crown Vic for $1300. As much as I love the size, comfort, space and V8 soundtrack it offers, gas here in Ontario costs nearly $1.40 CAD per litre (about $4.90 USD per gallon). Taking into account it won’t get much better than 14 MPG in the city (yes I’ve tried all I can to improve it) I have decided I need to get something more fuel efficient. Right now my budget is about $2500 plus whatever I can get for my Vic. I’m fairly mechanically inclined and try to repair as much as I can myself to save money, so I want a car that’s easy to work on.

Basically my checklist goes like this:

– Fuel efficient (four cylinder)
– Cheap to buy
– Easy to repair
– Cheap parts
– Reliable
– Domestic over imports (a Ford ideally)
– Lots of trunk space

Needless to say my Vic meets all but the first requirement. This list has led me to a bunch of mid-late 90’s Ford Escort wagons, not my number one choice but what do you think? Overall what do you think would be best car for me?

Thanks,

Steve Says:

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New or Used : Buy Retail? Sell Wholesale?

Steven

Love your articles on TTAC. Especially those on auctions, your dealership, and used cars.

I was wondering, do you provide services to buyers looking to buy a specific car? The prices in ATL are much better than the market in New England, to the point where I would be willing to fly down, buy a car and drive it back up. (I also have some friends in ATL anyway.)

If you do please let me know. I’ve been hunting for a decent priced NB Mazda Miata – and in my neck of the woods many are quite over priced.

If not no worries. I’ll continue to enjoy your articles.

Thanks!

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New Or Used? : The Most Reliable Car In The USA Is A ….

Hi Steve,

What would be the most reliable car I can purchase for about $7000-8000? And what would be the upper limit on mileage that I would even consider?

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New or Used? : This Musician Wants An Escort (Wagon)

I’m a working musician from NYC. I have a conundrum.

Since 1998 I’ve owned a 1989 BMW E30 ‘vert, which has served me well as a touring artist — it just hit 160k, most of those miles mine. However, all those miles have come at a price, between 40k timing belt changes and other occasional maintenance items, I wind up putting roughly $1500 into it every two to four years.

But I’ve always loved it, and it never let me down, until recently.

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New or Used: Can One Car Last Through Five Kids?


I currently have three cars and I feel a hankering to buy a fourth. My wife has bought into the idea, now it’s just a matter of what to get.

The particulars:

– Five kids between the ages of 5 and 15…

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New or Used : Do Two People Need Three Cars?

Steve,

Thanks for sending along your email address, and for you all that you do to demystify the process of buying and owning cars. I find myself in a unique situation, and I would like your thoughts.

My wife is considering taking a job that is 135 miles away from our home. She will commute up once and return 3 days later. We have 3 young kids, and they attend a school that is about 15 miles from home and a similar distance from my office. Should she take the job, I will be in charge of picking them up 3 days a week, in addition to dropping them every day already.

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New Or Used? : More Troubles With Old GM
A reader writes: I have a 2007 Pontiac G6 coupe which, up until last fall, had been a pretty decent car.
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New Or Used : To Fleet? Or Not To Fleet?

Hi Steve,

I really enjoy your articles. Thank you.

I have a question about fleet cars. I was driving to a meeting in one of the fleet cars my employer has. Nothing special, a late model Ford Fusion . And I was thinking is this a better deal to buy when they get rid of it than another used car? Then I realized that people who use a car that doesn’t belong to them trash it. So I thought, “No way!”

Then I realized that the same people who don’t take care of it, aren’t the same people who maintain it. So are fleet cars a better deal then non fleet on the market? After giving them a good cleaning does it not matter one way or the other all other things being the same?

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New Or Used : Go Fetch!

Yummy Food + Fire Hydrant Red = A Dog’s New Best Friend

We own a pet supply delivery business and use two vehicles. A 1995 Toyota Tacoma with 360,000 miles, and a 2004 Chrysler Pacifica with less than 20,000 miles.

Guess which one has given us more problems?

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New or Used : Care Free? Or Car-Free?

1999 Buick Century: Where Automotive Novocaine Meets Ambiguous Androgyny.

Dear Steve,

I just graduated from college this past December and found a wonderful job at my old alma mater.

The good news? I can walk to everywhere I need to go. My work, two nearby parks, the supermarket, and to most of my friend’s apartments and townhouses. I’m living an ideal life at this point.

Which brings me to the big question. Do I even need a car?

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New or Used? : I Loves My Truck
Thanks for your recent article about buying auto parts. I recently bought a well used ’95 F-150 with the venerable 302 and Mazda five-speed. When I say well used, I mean the engine has about 253,000 on the clock and sounds like it is on its last legs. I’m pretty sure I can hear the jugs rattling in the cylinders when I first fire it up, the idle hunts all over the place and it has about as much power as the Ukrainian president. I’d like to put a new mill in it. The previous owner spent a lot of time and money doing everything but engine work. Where’s a good place to start looking for a used motor, or should I spill the coin to have this tired old unit rebuilt?Steve Says:
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New or Used? : A Road Trip… Geo Metro Style

We want to go on a road trip this summer.

There are four of us. Myself, my wife, a teen and a tween. The wife and kids are thin and I’m about average sized.

Why do I mention this?

We are looking at getting a normal-sized vehicle that can potentially sleep four. A minivan, crossover, or even a large SUV would be perfectly fine for us. We think that there will be times when we can’t use a tent, and I would rather get away from the overpriced state parks if it’s at all possible.

Our budget is $10,000. We don’t want anything funky to maintain. For us that means no VW vans. We will consider most anything else. All domestics and imports are on the radar so long as they allow us reasonable sleeping quarters for our family.

Any ideas?

Steve Says:

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New or Used? : Should I Salvage My Shady Tree?

When I peruse the websites of some of my local yards, it seems like some of these cars have very little damage but some insurance adjuster has written them off based on whatever metric the company uses.

I’m an experienced shadetree mechanic and it seems like getting a 3-4 year old car for 30% of its original MSRP would be a screaming deal, and since warranty coverage is no longer an issue, it comes down to diminished value on the salvage title. I tend to keep my cars for 8-10 years so who cares.

Here’s where my doubts creep in.

If it was such a great idea, I would have surely read more about it. In the case of this one nearby yard, they have a huge collision repair facility. So why aren’t they repairing and flipping these cars? Googling doesn’t provide a whole lot on the pros and cons, just on the procedural aspects.

Any experience or stories ?

Steve Says:

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New Or Used? : Excuse Me While I Contradict Myself…

A reader sent me these parameters for picking his next vehicleI’m at a crossroads. I’m looking for a cheap – laughably cheap – like less-than-$3,000 cheap – car for my next daily driver. It’s got to be economical (near 30 mpg hwy) and fun to drive, with decent aftermarket support (so I can throw a couple mods at it – I’m a gearhead). Oh, and since I’m 6’1″ and have a 1-year old daughter, it needs a back seat.We can skip the DSM/Mitsubishi reliability warning.

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New Or Used? : A Twofer… And One For "The Bossth!"

I have three choices for a “New or Used?” column today.

#1 Is a real estate agent from San Francisco who is looking at spending $13,000 on her next ride. She needs something ‘nice’ to shepherd around her clients.

#2 Is the owner of an Acura RSX Type-S that has 108,000 miles. He is looking at whether to spend about $1500 in new tires and suspensions components. Or whether to blow the budget and spend $40,000 on something new.

#3 Is Baba Booey

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New Or Used? : A Young Driver Wants His Milk & Cookies… Right Now!

I just got a job that involves a fair amount of driving and I am looking to spend about 11-13k on a car that is fun to drive but at the same time practical and reliable.

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New or Used? : How Much Is MPG Really Worth?

Dear Steve:

My wife and I finally bought a brand new Honda Accord. She loves it, and I now have one less worry in my life.

With that one less worry though comes two more things, in the form of two similarly sized cars. At least one of which I no longer need.

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Electric Vehicles Suffer Depreciation Harder Than ICE Counterparts

Driving a new car off the lot takes off 20 percent immediately upon leaving the dealership, so it goes, but for EV owners looking for some green for being green, they may wish they’d bought a Toyota Camry instead.

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New or Used? : The Unwelcomed Gift Edition

I’ve written before for “New or Used?” regarding my ’04 Scion xB 5MT that I (mistakenly) ended up trading in towards my family’s 2013 Outback 3.6R last year. Since then I’ve been driving my wife’s ’06 Accord EX-L V6, now at 105k. It’s a nice enough car to drive, but was never “my” car, if you know what I mean (and I’m sure you do).

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New or Used? : The Brass Ring Edition

Hey Sajeev and Steve,

I am about to graduate college (this week in fact) and before I start my new job I need a new/used car. I am lucky enough to be graduating college debt free and with an excellent new job lined up. I will be moving from bone dry Texas to rainy Seattle.

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New or Used? : The Blasphemy Of Accountancy Edition

TTAC commentator Gannett writes:

This has now become an important question around our house: what’s the best/cheapest (not necessarily the same thing) way to drive 25,000 miles a year?

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New Or Used? : What Isn't Better Than A Panther Edition
TJ writes:

Hey Sajeev and Steve,

Need your assistance for a fellow panther lover (my aunt) who is going to be looking for a new ride this fall.

She currently has a Mercury Grand Marquis (her second or third) and loves the car and would replace it with another in a heartbeat if they were still for sale. If you’re asking why she’s getting rid of it, there isn’t any particular reason.

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New Or Used? : Large Marge Don't Want No Land Barge Edition

Dear Steve and Jeev,

My girlfriend needs a car while in the midst of many other big financial decisions that severely limit her car budget. Here’s the situation.

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New Or Used? : Wah! Wah! My Life Is Over!… Edition

Hello Sajeev and Steve,

I need to get a bit of advice, and I need to get it from real car guys, so I decided to ask the two of you, and the B&B, to give me some input on my situation.

I currently drive a 97 Honda Prelude. I’ve had it for the last 5 years, and it has taken a lot of abuse from me. The problem is that the body has 230k miles on it, and like clockwork, every 2 weeks something goes wrong.

Let me list the things that are currently wrong with it:

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New or Used? : Freddy Krueger And The Talon Edition

I am in need of some car advice.

I’m working with about $2000 or so and I’ve found some cars in my area that I’m interested in.

They are a 1993 Eagle Talon with 86k miles for $1800, 1996 Ford Thunderbird LX V8 with 130k miles for $1400, loaded 1999 Taurus SE with 133k miles for $2100 and lastly, a loaded 2002 Ford Taurus SES with 115k miles for $2200.

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New or Used? Help Me Find My Old Love Edition
Dear Steve & Sajeev,

For 14 years I have owned a 1998 Ford Windstar Northwoods Edition with the indomitable 3.8 Liter engine. I love this van! It’s been so reliable. $38,000 and 4 transmissions later, and old rusty is still trucking. Only had to do 4 head gaskets.

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New or Used? The Schizoid BMW Owner Edition

Steve and Sajeev,

I have a 98 540 6-speed closing in on 184k miles, and I think it’s time to make some decisions on it. My commute is about 85 miles per day, 3-5 days per week. The things I replaced when I bought the car 60k miles ago are starting to wear out again (lower control arms). It has other issues as well. Some are imminent, others just looming.

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New Or Used? : The Three Fatal Errors Edition

Hi Steve,

First, thanks for the articles about purchasing cars and your perspective on things. I’ve read the entire series on buying a used car, and they contain some useful pieces of information on how to approach things. However, one thing that was left out was how to purchase a used car from a dealership that’s still on warranty.

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New or Used? – It's Hard To Be Galant When You're Full Of Mud Edition
Sajeev and Steve – A close friend’s 2001 V6 Galant developed a death rattle and two reputable shops said the engine is toast. She’s current…
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New or Used: One Car Too Many, One Car Too Few?

Jeffrey writes:

We are seriously considering selling a vehicle. This would have been an easier decision had we just not purchased a new car. Plus we may now become a one car family thanks to my bike friendly commute.

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New Or Used: The MPV For The M.Ed. Edition

I’m finishing up a Masters in Biomedical Engineering and moving out to the Midwest, hopefully job offer in hand. My parents are graciously handing me down our old family car: a well worn 1998 Mazda MPV Allsport 4wd which I have maintained with my brother since we’ve had it.

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New or Used: Debtors Prison Edition

Hi there, I would like some advice on how to sell my new car. I bought a 2011 Subaru Outback Sport a little over one year ago and quickly realized that I made a huge mistake.

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New or Used? The Trophy SUV For The Trophy Wife Edition

Hi Steve and Sajeev,

I’m a longtime reader but first time commenter. I am looking for a late model “luxury” SUV for my wife who will only accept a BMW, Mercedes or Lexus.

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New or Used: Seatown, Not Snowtown!

TTAC Commentator Horseflesh writes:

Hey Sajeev and Steve,

Winter is coming. Like any true Seattle suburbanite, I dread the debut of the white stuff. We’re so scared of snow up here that the local insurance company even aired commercials teasing us about it.

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New or Used: First World Problems!

Travis writes:

This might seem a little frivolous, but this is a genuine dilemma that I’m currently facing right now. I’ve been looking to replace a 2006 Pontiac GTO that I’ve had for 4 years. It’s been fun, comfortable, and mildly expensive to maintain in the last year with random small but non-typical GM parts-bin stuff falling apart. I got into an accident a few days ago which pushed around the engine enough to declare the car a total loss. Lucky me me for being safe, also lucky me for not having to sell my car while also getting partial refunds on the $2700 that’s been dropped into it in the past 3 months.

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New or Used: Time to Replace the Pug?

M. Peerson writes:

Well, I think it is time to replace the Pug. My little 505 has crossed the country, oh I do not know how many times. I mean I just did a round about from Westminster CO (North Denver) to Roundrock TX (North Austin) back to Benton CA (Mammoth lakes) and it is still running fair to decent for a car that I have replaced the speedo on two times. Actual millage is up past 400K closer to 440,000 miles as I clock it with the log book.

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New or Used: Shifting the 5-speed Lexus to a New Owner?

George writes:

Hello again, Steven,

You may recall our email last March regarding our 1992 Lexus SC300 5-Speed. Thanks for the reply; guess the timing was bad for you with tax time coming up. As you may recall, the car is all original, black with gray interior, looks and runs great, and has slightly less than 25K miles. Here’s the back story:

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New or Used: Not All Orphans Are Created Equal

Mark writes:

Long time reader, first time commenter here…

I am in the market for a car for my daughter and I have noticed that the market is quite a bit different since the last time I bought a used car (2 years ago). When we bought a car for our oldest, I was looking for a 5/5/5 car — 5 years old, less than 50,000 miles and under $5k. Two years later I had to change that to 5/5/7 (for under $7,000). Now, I am seeing plenty of 8-10 year old Corolla/Civic/Elantra/etc with way north of 100k on the odo for $8,000 and more (private sale — dealers are even higher). This is in the NYC/Long Island area. $4 gas and crushed Clunkers have sure changed the market. My metric is out the window. Which brings me to….

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  • Corey Lewis Think how dated this 80s design was by 1995!
  • Tassos Jong-iL Communist America Rises!
  • Merc190 A CB7 Accord with the 5 cylinder
  • MRF 95 T-Bird Daihatsu Copen- A fun Kei sized roadster. Equipped with a 660cc three, a five speed manual and a retractable roof it’s all you need. Subaru Levorg wagon-because not everyone needs a lifted Outback.
  • Merc190 I test drive one of these back in the day with an automatic, just to drive an Alfa, with a Busso no less. Didn't care for the dash design, would be a fun adventure to find some scrapped Lancia Themas or Saab 900's and do some swapping to make car even sweeter. But definitely lose the ground effects.