By on August 3, 2021

Detroit automakers and the UAW have elected to reinstitute national masking mandates for all of their facilities, starting Wednesday. General Motors, Ford, and Stellantis have issued a joint announcement clarifying that the rules are in accordance with the updated guidance from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recommending masks be worn by all persons regardless of their vaccination status.

Based upon the text included in the release, the industry seems aware that the decision will be unpopular and is doing its utmost to transition responsibility without absolving itself entirely. 

“The [COVID-19 Joint] Task Force met and, after reviewing the recently changed CDC guidelines and community COVID-19 trends, decided it is best for worker safety to resume wearing masks in all worksites,” explains the collaborative statement. “While we know that masks can be uncomfortable, the spread of the Delta variant and recent data outlining the alarmingly high rate of transmission among those unvaccinated is a serious health threat.”

“We know that the best way to fight this virus is by getting vaccinated. The Task Force is strongly encouraging all members, coworkers and their families to roll up their sleeves so we can move more quickly on once again relaxing mask protocols. The more our members, coworkers and their families are vaccinated, the quicker we can vanquish this deadly pandemic.”

Except what would be the utility of getting vaccinated when the decision literally serves as an example that you’ll still be subjected to COVID restrictions? Similarly, how can the Joint Task Force point out an “alarmingly high rate of transmission among those unvaccinated” while completely ignoring the latest research claiming that vaccinated people can carry just as much viral load as others while simultaneously presenting fewer symptoms? It seems important, especially considering the research was the main reason the CDC updated its guidance. Also, why does any of this matter when the UAW, General Motors, and Ford had already started bringing back masking before the health agency had made its official proclamation?

While your author is all for speaking to your doctor so you can make informed decisions on vaccinations and what does/doesn’t work for your body, the official messaging around COVID has been so wildly inconsistent that it’s becoming truly difficult to take seriously. This is particularly troublesome timing, too, as infection rates have indeed gone up to match what we were seeing over the spring. Though death rate thankfully represents only about one-third of what it was during the same time period with the national seven-day average currently sitting at 388.

Meanwhile, national suicide rates and unemployment statistics have been similarly elevated. The Bureau of Labor Statistics reported that at least 14.7 percent of America was out of work in April 2020, which is the highest level the nation has endured since the Great Depression. Those figures have since come down, settling in around 5.9 percent last month. But the number doesn’t accurately represent the increasingly large number of people that have been out of work for over six months, the millions of small businesses that were lost in 2020, or those individuals who have effectively abandoned the workforce permanently. The economy has not weathered pandemic restrictions terribly well (that semiconductor shortage didn’t come out of nowhere) and the mental health of the citizenry has plummeted while drug abuse climbs beyond record levels. But people are either of the mind that this can all be stopped with just a bit more compliance or wholly convinced that state-sanctioned restrictions won’t ever end until people start ignoring them.

At this stage, there really seems to be a complete societal schism in what should be done. Plenty of reputable outfits will tell you that the associated costs of COVID restrictions outweigh the death toll of the virus. But there are just as many large institutions that will state the absolute opposite opinion. Corporations and state actors will even remove takes that don’t align with the current dogma online, causing new and unique problems for the country. All I know is that the pandemic has allowed the government to give away a substantial portion of the curbside parking in my neighborhood, so the space can be used for restaurants that were no longer allowed to feed people indoors, and that that the resulting outbuildings are often occupied by the now-surging homeless population in the early morning hours.

More recently, my mayor indicated that all residents would need to present proof-of-vaccination cards before being allowed to enter restaurants, gyms, or other establishments. On Tuesday, Bill de Blasio told the press that New Yorkers would need to be vaccinated if they wanted to “participate in our society fully.” While I certainly don’t oppose vaccinations, I do support the informed consent of the public and don’t want to live in a papers-please society. Sadly this places me at odds with these types of mandates and could even make it impossible for me to attend the New York International Auto Show this month without sacrificing my own deeply held beliefs. This should also explain how the above ties back to cars for readers frantically demanding exactly that in the comments.

Having previously asked a handful of line workers based in the United States to provide their take on factory protocols relating to COVID, I revisited the issue with several of the people that were previously good enough to provide comment — all of which requested I not use their name for reasons that should be overwhelmingly obvious. While everyone confessed they were not fond of wearing masks while on the clock, their opinions on the usefulness of such rules were split almost evenly.

“Nobody here likes wearing masks. But all we can really do is comply until they decide to change their minds again,” stated one.

But another member of my impromptu survey confessed that he was already actively looking for work elsewhere in case mask mandates were reinstituted. He called the updated rules “theater” and previously claimed that employees weren’t taking masking protocols all that seriously going into 2021. This time around he suggested the same was probably true of upper management and pointed to a lack of morale among line workers.

“I bet they don’t wear masks in boardroom meetings,” said the factory employee. “What was the point of getting vaccinated in the first place if nothing changed?”

Based on the clear and rampant demoralization of the workforce, I’m not so sure mandating masks is going have the desired consequences the industry is hoping for. Even those willing to comply confessed to being miserable and ultimately desire a return to normalcy and everyone else seems furious that restrictions continue after vaccinations have become commonplace. These restrictions were supposed to be a temporary measure to buy the respective industries time to contend with the pandemic, not an excuse to implement perpetual authority over how the people making everything we use to live their lives.

This isn’t going to result in happier workers, better cars, or anyone becoming more competitive. Automakers should give people the choice to wear masks and hope a sufficient number decide to roll with it. By now, everyone should know the risks and how to mitigate the amount they’re personally exposed to. It’s time to act and treat others like adults again.

[Image: Miljan Zivkovic/Shutterstock]

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236 Comments on “Opinion: Automakers Reinstating Nationwide Mask Mandates Is a Mistake...”


  • avatar
    Lou_BC

    A lot to unpack.

    Unlike Mr. Posky, my opinion is backed by medical data!

    “Similarly, how can the Joint Task Force point out “alarmingly high rate of transmission among those unvaccinated” while completely ignoring the latest research claiming that vaccinated people can carry just as much viral load as others while simultaneously presenting fewer symptoms?”

    1. Currenty the vast majority of hospitalizations and deaths are occurring in the unvaccinated. Over 95%.

    2. As far as vaccinated carrying a heavy viral load, that appears to be the case with the delta variant.

    Both point towards wearing a mask to reduce transmission rates.

    Looks like I’ll have to re-post all of my links to medical data bases affirming mask use.

    • 0 avatar
      Matt Posky

      Eager to see those links. Mine are in the article and include both right and left-leaning sources.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        Look through the Ford thread. Maybe you’ve heard of the Cochrane Library? Somehow, I doubt it. How about PubMed?

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        Matt Posky

        “Currenty the vast majority of hospitalizations and deaths are occurring in the unvaccinated. Over 95%”

        What they don’t tell you is the age of people who dies. Those people wouldn’t be working on assembly line anyways. But Italians did look at the age. Average vaccinated dead – 85yo. Average unvaccinated dead – 80yo. Yes, vaccinated die less but these are old and frail.

    • 0 avatar
      jalop1991

      “1. Currenty the vast majority of hospitalizations and deaths are occurring in the unvaccinated. Over 95%…Both point towards wearing a mask to reduce transmission rates.”

      You mistake me for someone who gives one single hoot about the unvaccinated.

      Don’t make me jump through hoops just so some population “doesn’t feel bad”.

      • 0 avatar
        MrIcky

        The anti-vaxxers are just simply becoming a drag on society. It’s time to move on. It’s not a conspiracy to implant you with a tracker, it’s not the mark of the beast. Just get it done so we can all move on.

        • 0 avatar
          96redse5sp

          Yeah, but I’ve seen the videos that prove the vaccine is a plot by the Democrats to make us all magnetic. Just like the Bible predicted..,

          • 0 avatar
            Matt Posky

            At no point does the above article do entertain ludicrous Q theories about chip implants or how Trump is the Second Coming. Get serious or work on your reading comprehension skills.

            Some of us just oppose an abuse of power because it’s an abuse of power. People can still wear masks without forcing the rest of the country to do the same. Talk to your doctor, get the vaccine, and move on with your life. Vaccine IDs are way over the line, the government collaborating with social media to censor people talking about COVID is grotesquely authoritarian, and subjecting people that do physical labor to perpetual mask wearing is cruel and dehumanizing.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “Some of us just oppose an abuse of power because it’s an abuse of power. People can still wear masks without forcing the rest of the country (both vaccinated and unvaccinated) to do the same.”

            Why do you fell it is an abuse of power?

            And by whom?

            Car companies along with the unions representing the workers within those facilities have decided that workers must wear masks. That’s not forcing the “rest of the country (both vaccinated and unvaccinated) to do the same.

            It’s a mask… just a mask… WTF is the problem?

            You have to wear seatbelts, most placed have mandatory helmet laws for motorcyclists, you have to stop at red lights and follow traffic laws.

            How’s a mask any different?

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            I don’t know about magnetism but $$$, control – for sure

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @slavuti – “I don’t know about magnetism but $$$, control – for sure”

            I should encourage you to keep posting instead of ridiculing your comments.

            The rest of us could just sit back and watch you totally undermine Mr. Posky’s argument by agreeing with him!

        • 0 avatar
          teddyc73

          @MrIcky, So I am a drag on society. Interesting. I don’t have any bizarre reason for not getting I simply have chosen not to. I’ve already moved on. I did a long time ago.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @EBFlex – more BS. Yup. It’s all the lefts fault that those on the right don’t want to get vaccinated. And bozos like you call “us” snowflakes…What does that make you? Maskflakes? Or just flakes?

        • 0 avatar
          EBFlex

          “ The anti-vaxxers are just simply becoming a drag on society. It’s time to move on. It’s not a conspiracy to implant you with a tracker, it’s not the mark of the beast. Just get it done so we can all move on.”

          Yeah there hasn’t been a large number of people that actually think it’s a tracker. Framing the argument as such is dishonest.

          There are a large number of people that simply don’t trust the government or an experimental vaccine and don’t feel they should be forced to inject that into their body. And can you blame them? The left, for months and months including the installed president and Vice President have doubted the vaccine and indirectly told people not to get it. What do we make of that?

          There’s also a group of people that believe being forced to reveal personal medical information is ridiculous. It’s none of anyone’s business if I’m vaccinated or not.

          Then there’s the vast amount of misinformation and fear porn from the media and the left. 2 weeks to slow the spread, then we just need the vaccine and life can be normal, etc. If lockdowns work, why the mask? If masks work why the vaccine? If vaccines work why the mask? It’s been proven over and over that the masks that actually work are N95. That’s it. Heck even Fauci the Fraud said masks don’t work. My how easily we forget.

          Lastly, this delta variant is not nearly as deadly as the variants we have seen before. And the ones before had a 99.997% survival rate. We are being lied to yet again.

          This is all about control. You wanted people to get the vaccine and a very large number of people did. You said if we got the vaccine we wouldn’t have to wear these ridiculous and useless masks. Well here we are. Yet another lie from our liberal political leaders.

          • 0 avatar
            96redse5sp

            “Lastly, this delta variant is not nearly as deadly as the variants we have seen before. And the ones before had a 99.997% survival rate.”

            That’s an absolute falsehood. If you had any basis for an argument, you wouldn’t resort to merely merely making up numbers and posting them as if they were facts. The true fatality rate of those with Covid has been approximately 3.0% not 0.003%. That’s a HUGE disparity. That’s 3 out of a hundred. 30 out of a thousand. 30,000 out of every million.

            Why would you want to participate in an my serious discussion and just use made up numbers. That’s a shit thing to do. WTF is the matter with you?

          • 0 avatar
            96redse5sp

            “Yeah there hasn’t been a large number of people that actually think it’s a tracker. Framing the argument as such is dishonest”

            There are thousands of people who subscribe to the theory that the vaccine DOES contain a tracker and/or makes you magnetic. Virtually every single FB post pertaining to COVID and the vaccines has comments pushing ridiculous conspiracy theory like that -and that’s just from the brighter conspiracy theorists who are literate and able to post. If I didn’t have anything else to do this morning, I could post hundreds of FB or comments here by people who are spreading that kind of nonsense. It’s rampant…

          • 0 avatar
            96redse5sp

            “There are a large number of people that simply don’t trust the government… And can you blame them? The left, for months and months including the installed president and Vice President have doubted the vaccine and indirectly told people not to get it.”

            That’s the worst excuse yet. When did Biden ever instruct people not to get the virus. When did VP Harris instruct anyone not to get the virus. Was it anytime within the last six months? Was it this calendar year? Can you direct us to a few of their anti-vax quotes?
            Because I could show you literally dozens of direct quotes where they were strongly encouraging the vaccine. Hell, the right has taken offense at the perception that Biden wants to mandate the vaccine. That’s the exact opposite of what you’re saying.

            I can’t imagine that there’s a single person out there who is otherwise inclined to get the vaccination, but refuses because of something Biden or Harris said? Who are these people you’re talking about? Do you know any of them? How much deference do you afford Biden or Harris when considering the vaccine? If I showed you proof that Biden wants everyone to be vaccinated, would that be persuasive to you?

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “ When did Biden ever instruct people not to get the virus. When did VP Harris instruct anyone not to get the virus.”

            I assume you meant vaccine. The libs want people to continue to get the virus but even they won’t say it.

            But yeah weird how they flip flopped huh? Amazing how when they were on the campaign trail it was “don’t trust the vaccine, etc”. Also funny how you forgot that.

            “ But this weekend, the Democratic nominee for vice president, Sen. Kamala D. Harris (Calif.) did something far worse. In a CNN interview, Harris repeatedly called into question whether it would be safe to take the coronavirus vaccines being developed under the Trump administration’s Operation Warp Speed.”

            https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/09/08/kamala-harris-casting-doubt-pre-election-vaccine-is-shameful/

            And that’s from the Washington Post for Gods sake.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “That’s an absolute falsehood.”

            No…it’s not. Been proven over and over again.

            It’s also reasonable to assume that the death rate is yet even lower due to the extremely large number of people who get it and have either no symptoms or mild symptoms that clear up and they don’t go to the doctor for.

            But you continue to be a good little keyboard warrier for the libs and keep beating their misinformation drum for them. They love sheep like you.

            Meanwhile, people on the right and HISTORY will continue to prove you wrong and we will continue to point it out. You and the rest of your ilk have lied to the country and the world since day one. You defend China for their releasing this onto the world, you defend the WHO that stated early on that this was not transmittable from human to human, you defend Fauci who said masks don’t work and people shouldn’t wear them. You defend the installed president and vice president when they were some of the biggest opponents to the vaccine (because orange man bad). You defend these insane mask mandates despite plentiful evidence that they don’t work all while lambasting reasonable people who are rightfully skeptical of an emergency use vaccine that has not been through any rigorous testing to prove what it can do and the risks associated with it and is being peddled by a government that has been lying to us for over a year on this virus. A virus that they said first arrived in January to our shores yet there is ample proof that it was here FAR sooner (which…weird no hysteria then).

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @jalop1991- I’m not trying to make anyone feel bad. The simple fact is that masks work in reducing the viral load throughout the population.

        An increased viral load in the human reservoir increases illness and death in both cohorts i.e. vaccinated or unvaccinated. It increases the odds of a mutation occurring that renders vaccines useless.

        Wearing masks and getting vaccinated is altruistic and self-preservatory.

        Like it or not, we are social/communal creatures.

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      @Matt

      Abuse of power?

      Last I checked folks like Farago that founded TTAC and Neidermeyer were proud card-carrying Republicans that loved the concept of free-market capitalism.

      A pillar of free-market capitalism is the right for a business to run the business as they so choose. The less regulation the better!

      Businesses have made a business decision. Wear a mask. No one told them to do it. Well, my pure speculation is a business told them to do it. Namely, their health insurance provider doesn’t want to be left holding the bag for COVID treatment costs when the government stops paying at 100% later this year.

      Imagine that – free-market capitalists telling free-market capitalists don’t hurt our profits or we’ll make you pay more out of pocket to meet your obligations.

      Now if you believe that is ‘abuse of power’ and now you want government intervention – last time I went over the Fox News talking points, that was socialism.

      Cognitive dissonance at its finest.

      What is it the political right is fond of saying when anyone else dares complain about work conditions, benefits or pay? Oh ya – then quit and find another job if you don’t like it.

      Let’s face it, many that claim to hate socialism-communism-Marxism (yet can’t even define any of the 3 without a Google search) are fine with that position right up until THEY feel inconvenienced. Then they want the government to save them from capitalism. Amazing.

    • 0 avatar
      Greg Hamilton

      https://www.dailyveracity.com/2021/07/26/over-50-scientific-studies-conclude-masks-do-nothing-to-prevent-the-spread-of-illness-so-why-do-people-keep-claiming-they-work/

      • 0 avatar
        96redse5sp

        “https://www.dailyveracity.com/2021/07/26/over-50-scientific-studies-conclude-masks-do-nothing-to-prevent-the-spread-of-illness-so-why-do-people-keep-claiming-they-work/“

        I forwarded that link to my friend who’s a surgeon, and he was so impressed that he’s no longer going to wear a mask during surgery and will instruct the attending nurses to do likewise. Apparently, everyone’s been doing it all wrong in every hospital for the past 100 years…

        • 0 avatar
          Greg Hamilton

          96pseudonym,
          You and your handlers know perfectly well that surgeon’s masks are to prevent germs from saliva from falling from the surgeon into open wounds during surgery. As far as I can tell no one is walking around hovering over people with open wounds.

          • 0 avatar
            96redse5sp

            If a sick person were to cough or sneeze directly into your face, would you be more comfortable if he were wearing a mask or not wearing a mask. Or wouldn’t you care? Do you cover your face when you cough or sneeze? If so, is it because that’s what your handlers tell you to? Are you OK if people cough or sneeze directly in your face without making any effort to cover theirs?

            You can place your trust in the hands of something called “dailyveracity. com”. (Speaking of viruses, I’m kicking myself for even approaching that cesspool). I’ll trust the CDC….

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @Greg Hamilton- your source is almost complete BULLSH!T.

        Unless you are sourcing reputable medical data bases or journals you are regurgitating useless bovine effluvia.

        https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

        “Conclusion

        Our review of the literature offers evidence in favor of widespread mask use as source control to reduce community transmission”

        https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2776536

        https://science.sciencemag.org/content/372/6549/1439

      • 0 avatar
        Imagefont

        Only D-bags post BS links to pseudo / fake scientific articles. They’re a dime a dozen. Grow up.

    • 0 avatar
      Greg Hamilton

      In a new twist scientific evidence can be retracted:

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/

      • 0 avatar
        APaGttH

        …In a new twist scientific evidence can be retracted…

        Huh. Like that’s never happened in history before.

        Care to let me know where I can buy some radium water for its health benefits?

        How about those health benefits from cigarettes and hey for a nice boost of healthy energy, refined sugar my friend is the answer!

        You know what says healthy – a deep dark savage tan. So go get some tanning butter and enjoy that sun.

        Heroin is an amazing cough supressant. Chug! Chug! Chug!

        Have a Coke and a smile.

        • 0 avatar
          Greg Hamilton

          Yes I remember when Galileo retracted his scientific findings don’t you?

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            That argument again? LOL Slavuto…is that you?

            “On February 26, 1616 Galileo was informed by the pope that the Church had decided that his theory of the Earth’s motion “was formally heretical since it explicitly contradicts in many places the sense of Holy Scripture.””

            Pulling an article because it uses sloppy scientific process is completely different.

      • 0 avatar
        96redse5sp

        “In a new twist scientific evidence can be retracted:”

        I know what you mean. First, there was no Pluto at all. Then suddenly there was a Pluto and it was a planet. Next thing you know, Pluto isn’t a planet. This is all so contradictory. That’s why I don’t believe in science. They can’t keep anything straight…

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          “They can’t keep anything straight…”

          It’s all of that Quantum physics stuff…

          Newton was enamored by the gravity of it all. Einstein was more chill and thought it was all relative.

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      Frankly both sides of this argument are so pigheaded and idiotic that I’ve moved to the “How do I profit from this” phase of it again.

      Turns out being vaccinated and willing to travel is lucrative and I’m sitting on a beautiful beach in the South Pacific all by my lonesome (on an island with an 80 percent vaccination rate) stacking cheddar.

      So please, all of you keep doing what you are doing!

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @Art Vandelay – One side of the argument is pigheaded and I’ll offer up a mea culpa on that.

        Idiotic… um…is by definition “very stupid” and “stupid” by definition is “having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense”.

        • 0 avatar
          Art Vandelay

          Fair enough Lou. All I know is I’m 4 Mojitos in at my hourly rate because a bunch of people are scared, rightfully or not.

          Rest assured, I am firmly in the just get the fncking shot camp and frankly for how lucrative this is getting I’ll wear a ceiling fan on my face but people tend to be stupid so may as well make a buck.

          • 0 avatar
            Daniel J

            @Art,

            The who problem with the “get the shot” camp is that, like anything else that has turned political, its much more nuanced than that.

            Out of the ~100 people I know who are vaccinated, I know 2 people who had severe reactions requiring them to go the the hospital. One was young and healthy and the other was in the mid 70s. I personally don’t trust the reporting by the media or CDC when it comes to people having severe reaction, and that’s why its just so easy to say that for the young and healthy, it’s a higher chance of illness from Covid vs illness or reaction from the Vaccine.

            When I look at all the people who I know who haven’t been vaxxed, 25 percent of them went to their doctor and was told not to get it because of underlying health issues. The other 25 percent already have had Covid. The remainder fall into the “wait and see” camp or the “I’ll never get the vax’ camp.

            Want people to get vaxxed:

            1. Have third party reporting and make all reporting available in regards to vaccine reactions, hospitlizations, and deaths
            2. Make a vaccine with less reactions
            3. Make a vaccine that works better

            There will always be people who won’t get vaccines. I mean, we get what, ~50 percent Flu vaccines at best?

    • 0 avatar
      teddyc73

      “unpack”? What is this, luggage?

    • 0 avatar
      tylanner

      Whew! Superman swooping in to save the day….

    • 0 avatar
      Flipper35

      I am late to this party because of a death in the family 1/2 a country away but I have to add:

      I work in healthcare and my sister was in healthcare. In her case the hospital she worked with told her 80% of the cases they had were people that had been fully vaccinated but the news reported that hospital at 90% of cases were NOT vaccinated.

      At this point I don’t think there is any reporting that is correct. What the workers see and what gets reported are completely different things.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        OK, so if we’re going on hearsay (i.e., “the hospital she works tells her”) then the hospital my girlfriend works at is telling her the exact opposite thing – almost ALL the serious COVID cases they’re seeing are unvaccinated patients.

        We see the facts we want to see, I suppose. But I think there’s an overwhelming amount of evidence to show that getting vaccinated is a very, very smart move.

        (Sorry about your loss, by the way.)

  • avatar
    ajla

    youtube.com/watch?v=-W_hcLXKp5w

  • avatar
    APaGttH

    I’m just here for the comments – and there is a fair amount of misunderstanding of science in the “editorial” above but I’m so over it at this point, it isn’t worth the keystrokes.

    Did no one else take Biology 101 and track mutations in fruit flies??? Viruses replicate a lot faster than fruit flies.

    How long did it take before we got the science on AIDS right?

    How many different strains of Ebola are there with different lethality and transmission rates?

    Now actually I have one other thing.

    My wife is a doctor at a trauma hospital. Anesthesiologist and college professor. In her hospital system anestesology does all intubations. Eighteen months of this. Relentless. Endless. The 90-120 day break was meaningless because when restrictions went down every friggin’ person in the region went full, “hold my beer and watch this,” so even more this current growing spike, acute care was at 85% of capacity and ICU at 83% of capacity because of traumas and accidents. Total COVID patients were under 2%.

    Now its 11%.

    12 – 16 hour day – 24 hours on call – patients calling her a paid actor and far far worse. Denying their sick as they turn feckin’ blue and gasp for breath. Literally saying stupidity like, “I have sudden onset lung cancer! Why won’t you treat my cancer.”

    The same idiots who are refusing a vaccine because its not FDA approved are dragging their asses to the hospital to get treatment that literally isn’t FDA approved.

    Three people in her department have either quit, retired early, or left the country to a nation that actually gives a crap. I know almost a dozen nurses who are done.

    The ones left behind – picking up the slack. Ya, you don’t feckin’ see it. Well I do. Every darn day. My wife is turning into a PTSD ridden combat veteran dealing with stuff she never signed up for.

    Oh, and before you label her a snowflake. She studied in Israel and worked on blown up civilians and shot up Arabs in packed emergency departments after terrorist attacks and fire fights. She is one of the toughest people I have ever know.

    She’s done. She’s cooked. And she isn’t alone.

    But ya, celebrate your darn freedom or whatever you call it but tell you what. You don’t want a mask. You don’t want to vax. If you get sick don’t go to the damn hospital. If it’s that trivial then take some Dayquil and suck it up buttercup.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @APaGttH – I sympathize with you and your wife. It’s heart wrenching and mind numbing.

    • 0 avatar
      spookiness

      I get it. I’ve seen my dad, friend’s mom, and a hot date from a decade ago all go. And this op-ed complains about parking (!). The automakers aren’t stupid, because $$, and I’m glad industry is finally putting their foot down. Enough is enough, get a vax or get another job.

      • 0 avatar
        Matt Posky

        @spookiness They are mandating masks for people who also got the vaccine.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          “the latest research claiming that vaccinated people can carry just as much viral load,”

          “They are mandating masks for people who also got the vaccine.”

          You are somehow surprised?

        • 0 avatar
          MrIcky

          If everyone had the vaccine: you may have a viral load but your symptoms would be much reduced. You would be less likely to transfer it because the people next to you would be vaccinated. If you did transfer it, the person you transferred it to would have minimized symptoms.

          The people who have already been vaccinated are having to wear masks because anti-vaxxers are either too lazy or too ill informed to just get it done

          Sick of being punished because of the lazy and or dumb.

        • 0 avatar
          Steve Biro

          And why do you have a problem with that, Matt? Is there something you don’t understand?

          It’s true: With the Delta variant (and unlike the original COVID virus) those who are vaccinated can carry viral loads in their noses like the unvaccinated. Except the vaccinated aren’t becoming seriously ill, being hospitalized and dying like the unvaccinated are.

          So this is about protecting the unvaccinated. I understand how many who are vaccinated have run out of patience with those who refuse to do so.

          But the idea is to take away all of the places the virus can thrive and replicate – before it can mutate into something we can’t deal with.

          We’d probably be at that point already – at least in this country – if a good portion of the populaiton didn’t simply refuse to be a part of the solution instead of part of the problem.

          Count me among those who say “get a vax, wear a mask or get another job.”

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            So you listening to some people. But there are others. Famous Nobel-prize doctor who said that vaccinating during pandemic is one crazy thing you can do.

            CNN Sept 2020
            “Past vaccine disasters show why rushing a coronavirus vaccine now would be ‘colossally stupid\'”

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            Slavuta: Didn’t see a reference to a Nobel Prize-winning Dr. in that article. Actually, that doesn’t mean a lot. What did he win the prize for? Was it immunology related?

            Anyway, the article has been proven wrong. Also, mRNA vaccines have been under development and have been tested in trials for years. They’ve been ready for some time. They’re far safer that older vaccines and won’t have the issues cited in the article.

            So, here’s an article from 2018 about mRNA vaccines. A couple of years before they were supposedly developed in a rush:

            https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            mcs

            “mRNA vaccines represent a promising alternative to conventional vaccine approaches because of their high potency, capacity for rapid development and potential for low-cost manufacture and safe administration. However, their application has until recently been restricted by the instability and inefficient in vivo delivery of mRNA.”

            I think, as usual, rapid development, low cost were the main drivers. And they are still not proven to be safe for long-term. This is why vaccines usually tested for 7-9 years.

            I listened to the man who started doing mRNA. He is not happy.. MSN:
            “I don’t think the benefits outweigh the risks in that cohort,’ said Malone, referring to people in the 18 to 22 age bracket, ‘but unfortunately the risk-benefit analysis is not being done.”

        • 0 avatar
          96redse5sp

          Yes, they ARE talking about mandating masks for people who already got the vaccine. BECAUSE THISE PEOPLE CAN CONTRACT AND SPREAD THE DELTA VARIANT…

          How is that concept so difficult to understand?

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            slavuta,

            “I don’t think the benefits outweigh the risks in that cohort,’ said Malone,”

            Yes, I saw a video with Malone talking about the mRNA vaccine. He has some very serious concerns about the safety and long term effects of it.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Where would you like your Party badge sent?

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      “The 90-120 day break was meaningless because when restrictions went down every friggin’ person in the region went full, “hold my beer and watch this,””

      Yeah, literally everyone I know totally went all “Hold my Beer” and followed the CDC guidance for vaccinated individuals.

      I do love that the best response my elected officials this far have been able to muster was hope and trying to shame the unvaccinated! I for one totally feel that I am getting my 4+trillion dollars worth that we have spent on all of this!

      • 0 avatar
        Daniel J

        @Art,

        I know we live in the same area. But really? It’s not like places with high vaccination rates are really doing much better. We dropped our mask mandates in April. We didn’t start having an uptick in positive tests until right before July 4th. That’s 3 months of a dropped mask mandate with very few cases. If the masks worked then why the hell didn’t we see a spike in early May? If vaccinations work so well, we had a 20 percent increase in vaccinations from April to July, yet we now have significantly more positive tests. Why? All this science is all BS conjecture and best guestimates.

        Heck, my wife got Covid working in a medical setting where EVERYONE was getting temperature checked and wearing masks, full time, all the time.

        MITs studies back earlier this year pretty much explained that mask wearing does no good in an enclosed environment after a certain period of time. Of course, everyone want’s to discount studies that doesn’t support a narrative.

        The virus is going to virus.

    • 0 avatar
      Ryoku75

      @APaGttH If theres one comment worth reading in this list, its this one, and maybe the random WWII argument.

  • avatar
    Crosley

    Union leaders don’t really represent their rank and file, due paying members. They are largely political hacks that serve the Democrat party.

    If you had a secret ballot where members voted on mandatory masks, you would get a much different result. 90/10 would be against it, completely suffocating working with those doing hard labor.

    The union leaders though won’t be bothered one bit in their home offices where there’s no mask requirement.

    I guess now the “Science!” is saying the vaccines we were told would stop the spread aren’t stopping the spread? People are done with this and are noticing who has to follow the rules and who doesn’t.

    • 0 avatar
      Matt Posky

      Agreed.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        “Science is saying the vaccines we were told would stop the spread aren’t stopping the spread?”

        The science surrounding SARS-CoV-2 has to evolve as the virus evolves. Your comment was based upon pre-mutation data. There is a chance that SARS-CoV-2 could mutate itself into oblivion just like SARS and MERS.

        Why is that difficult to comprehend?

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          Lou_BC,

          “Why is that difficult to comprehend?”

          It isn’t. But, it could also mutate into the absolute virus from hell.

          It has been suggested that people who have recently received the vax but have not yet gained full immunity (which takes some time) have an environment in their bodies that tends to push the virus towards vax resistant mutations. That makes sense to me (whatever that’s good for:-) ).

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @Old_WRX – “push the virus towards vax resistant mutations”

            The SARS-CoV-2 virus has a rudimentary self-checking program built into it. It tries to ensure it replicates consistently but mutations do get through. That’s why vaccines work and current vaccines still work on variants.

            It can potentially mutate to a point where the immune system no longer recognizes it. That would apply equally to previously infected people as it does to vaccinated people.
            All vaccines do is prime our immune system to fight off infection without us getting ill and surviving.

            There are at least 4 main ways (IIRC) to make a vaccine so it would most likely be vaccine dependent as to a mutation camouflaging itself from our immune system.

        • 0 avatar
          Crosley

          “Science Evolving”…more like pulling it out their a$s as it suits their agenda.

      • 0 avatar
        turbo_awd

        Sure, they’d vote 90-10 against it, and they’d vote similarly in favor of being allowed to smoke on the line again, free beer all day, etc, etc.

        By and large, the people working car assembly lines aren’t exactly overflowing in biology PhDs.

    • 0 avatar
      Urlik

      Actually all they care about is that the union and their paychecks survive. They would throw both the members and the Dems under the bus if it meant the union survived. They are like any other business.

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      Once again, for those in the back of the room.

      Hi, this is insurance company X, your health care provider to your employees and dependents.

      Ya, great, very good, thanks for asking.

      Hey, we wanted to make sure you’re aware that the federal government is going to stop paying for COVID-related medical expenses and treatment beyond immunization later this year.

      Oh, good, you did know.

      Yes. So during your next open enrollment session, if you don’t have a vax or mask policy that’s documented, your rates will go up to this.

      Oh we know it’s a lot, have you checked out the cost of two weeks of ECMO?

      Yes, but we’re in a business to make a profit just like you, and our actuaries have indicated we can’t absorb those costs. If you don’t want to do a corporate policy that’s fine, but you’ll be on the higher rates.

      The sudden dislike of capitalism is comical.

      • 0 avatar
        ajla

        “So during your next open enrollment session, if you don’t have a vax or mask policy that’s documented, your rates will go up to this.”

        Under current laws this described scenario would be illegal. Overall rates can increase year-over-year but an insurance company can’t charge punitive rates on account of vaccination status. Certain employer provided health insurance plans can provide a discount to vaccinated employees but the level of that discount is capped.

        Employers can mandate vaccines. State governments can mandate vaccines (at least regionally I don’t know if a statewide mandate has ever been challenged). Both of those are much more likely to pass through courts versus any financial penalty related to vaccine refusal.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    This almost feels like journalism, I thought that went extinct?

  • avatar
    theonlydt

    It’s a terrible opinion, poorly written, and dangerously ill-informed.

  • avatar
    jack4x

    Thank god all you “what does/doesn’t work for your body” guys weren’t around when we were eradicating smallpox, polio, etc.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      Yea, a lot of people died from original polio vaccines before they were tuned. The argument here is that THIS vaccine is not proven to be safe and thousands died after receiving it and dangerous reactions are common.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        Citations required!

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          What, you don’t know how to google? Last time I do it for you

          “From 1955 to 1963, an estimated 10-30% of polio vaccines administered in the US were contaminated with simian virus 40 (SV40). The virus came from monkey kidney cell cultures used to make polio vaccines at that time.”

          https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/concerns-history.html

          “In April 1955 more than 200 000 children in five Western and mid-Western USA states received a polio vaccine in which the process of inactivating the live virus proved to be defective. Within days there were reports of paralysis and within a month the first mass vaccination programme against polio had to be abandoned.”

          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1383764/

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            IIRC the original polio vaccine was “live attenuated”. That means a weakened LIVE virus. Yes, those vaccines could actually make someone sick.
            Science and medicine evolve.

            Here is an amazing factoid: Orphan children were used to “transport” the smallpox vaccine around the world. Cowpox a similar virus was deliberately injected into orphans. They would then transport these children via ship to the colonies. They’d get sick and pustules would break out. The Doctor would drain the pustules and inject another child. Once they arrived at the colony they’d use the fluid from the pustules to “vaccinate” colonists.

            Rather Putinesque approach!

  • avatar
    96redse5sp

    Damn, did I miss another Q-Anon meeting? Can you tell us, Matt, are we still on track to get whatshisnsme back in office on August 13, or will there be another delay?

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      Ask the pillow guy.

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      They say The Storm is coming on August 7 leading up to the reinstatement on August 13. Former social media icon is meeting with cabinet already per chief of staff.

      So who do I blame for gas costing 98 cents more a gallon than last year, because if there is a cabinet and he’s running a shadow government…never mind.

  • avatar
    96redse5sp

    You know this is a “novel” virus. Meaning that there’s no playbook on how to handle this and anyone who tells you that they know exactly what to expect is a charlatan.

    There was an expectation that if the vast majority of us got our vaccination, we could get a handle on this pandemic and herd immunity would mean that mask-wearing would not be necessary. I think the influence of the uneducated AntiVa was underestimated and few saw that the refusal to take rudimentary precautions would lead to the far more virulent delta variant,

    The whiny complain that, “but they promised we wouldn’t have to mask up anymore” is the single most childish, infantile, obnoxious, simple minded argument I have ever heard to support resistance to a basic health precaution. ITS A FUCKING FACEMASK. It’s not a daily eyeball injection. How did we as a nation become so soft?

    Get your vaccination. Wear a face mask. And let’s move in. It seems like some people want it to be 2020 forever and are actually rooting for the virus…

  • avatar
    96redse5sp

    “Except what would be the utility of getting vaccinated when the decision literally serves as an example that you’ll still be subjected to COVID restrictions?” You can’t be serious? Can you? You see no purpose in getting a vaccination unless you’re given a prize? A tangible reward?

    The utility is, that if you’re vaccinated, you receive some protection from contracting the virus, and near total protection from death or chronic injury or damage if you DO happen to contract Covid. And your response is, yeah, but what’s in it for me?!? Really?

  • avatar
    96redse5sp

    “Similarly, how can the Joint Task Force point out “alarmingly high rate of transmission among those unvaccinated” while completely ignoring the latest research claiming that vaccinated people can carry just as much viral load as others while simultaneously presenting fewer symptoms?”

    Um, you realize that nobody is ignoring anything, right? This is the reason why mask-wearing is so critical.

    You complain about all the “contradictory” information and recommendations. What’s your proposal? That we stop researching the coronavirus? That we do absolutely nothing to stop the pandemic until we fully, totally, completely understand this virus and how it works? That we stay frozen in time and sit on our heels until everyone is in 100% agreement on how to address this?

    This is a brand new, never-before-seen, “novel” virus. And you’re perturbed because the information and recommendations from scientists and the medical community is sometimes “contradictory?

    • 0 avatar
      ttiguy

      Cmon man, he’s (Posky) never had to try over and over again to solve a math/science/whatever problem in his life experiences. This (covid) isn’t much more complicated. If only these lazy docs would get their s*** together and be consistent.

      He’s just setting them straight1

  • avatar
    Snooder

    This is a stupendously bad take.

    Seriously.

    It’s right about on par with the buddies in high school who claimed that they didn’t see the point in condoms because sometimes they break.

    No shit it doesn’t always protect you 100%. Even a little bit helps.

    And remember, the point of this is to keep you from dying. The vaccine helps lower the risk of you, the vaccinated, dying. The mask helps lower the risk of both you and everyone around you catching something and, again, dying.

    Not a foolproof guarantee that if you vaccinate and mask, you won’t get sick. Just like someone who wears a condom can still knock his gf up or catch an STD. But are you gonna be that dumbass rolling around fucking random girls without a condom? And for sure are you gonna be the idiot who tries to come up with some lame-ass justification for being lazy? No.

    Get vaccinated and wear a mask as much as you can. Just common sense.

    • 0 avatar
      96redse5sp

      @Snooder…

      And like with your condom analogy, if you’re a complete asshole, you don’t really care whether or not your condom breaks, because it probably isn’t going to affect you one way or the other…

  • avatar
    John G.

    Great column, Matt: thoughtful, substantive, reasonable, balanced. You are a brave man in a city with nutty politicians and a profession, journalism, that largely sold its soul long ago.

    I do not trust The Medical Establishment. I have not used it in 12 years: no physician visits, no prescription medication. I am 59, and in perfect health because of how I eat.

    Great book, ‘Deadly Deception.’ Leading lights from U.C. Berkeley and elsewhere told Gallo, Fauci, NIAID, CDC, FDA, et al. that HIV had nothing to do with AIDS. The book documents how the medicine prescribed for HIV, AZT, in fact caused AIDS.

    Fauci and NIAID blew (purposely!) handling AIDS. I think the same gang is purposely blowing it again. Evil folks.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @John G.

      “HIV had nothing to do with AIDS”

      My first instinct is to say “put your helmet back on and stop licking the windows on the bus” but that would be counterproductive.

      HIV is a virus. Human Immunodeficiency Viruses cause progressive failure of the immune system which allows life-threatening opportunistic infections and cancers to develop. AIDS ‘A’cquired ‘i’mmuno’d’eficiency ‘s’yndrome is the disease caused by HIV.

      This isn’t even a matter of debate anywhere in the medical or scientific community!

      SARS-CoV-2 “Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2” is the virus that causes COVID-19 disease.

      • 0 avatar
        John G.

        Lou, read Deadly Deception by a thoughtful MD. There was lots of outrage about the rushed diagnosis of HIV causing AIDS. Luc Montagnier, who discovered HIV, said it did not cause AIDS. He later shared the Nobel Prize for his discovery of HIV.

        • 0 avatar
          Astigmatism

          “Lou, read Deadly Deception by a thoughtful MD.”

          Once someone has their medical license revoked for making unfounded medical claims for food products, are they still an MD?

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @John G. – I’ll pass.

          I’ve been a licensed/certified healthcare professional for close to 32 years. Concomitantly,20 years as a paramedic and paramedic instructor.

          I’ve seen HIV/AIDS go from a misunderstood gay-bashing disease that was typically lethal to that of a chronic illness.

          @Astigmatism – you already know the answer to that one.

          • 0 avatar
            Daniel J

            @Lou_BC

            I mean, I grew up when schools were so hardcore about basically HIV was a death sentence. That everyone is going to get it unless they had protected sex. The campaign was worse than DARE. That was the mid 90’s.

            5 Years after that Magic was still alive.

            Then I looked back at 15 years and realize that most people who got HIV in the 90s were still alive.

            Just like then and just like now, it’s all politicized.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @Daniel J – I guess you could call religious extremism political. AIDS was sold as a homosexual and drug addict’s disease. That stereotype was used to try to keep the “straight kids” in line with religious/political doctrine.

    • 0 avatar
      turbo_awd

      I think you’re thinking of Redfield – Trump’s hand-picked surgeon general who intentionally let HIV patients suffer / blocked funding back in Reagan’s day because he believe it was punishment from God against “the gays”.

  • avatar
    96redse5sp

    “Some of us just oppose an abuse of power because it’s an abuse of power. People can still wear masks without forcing the rest of the country (both vaccinated and unvaccinated) to do the same.”

    You don’t know what the purpose of a mask is, do you Matt?

  • avatar
    96redse5sp

    In all seriousness, I’d like to applaud Matt for having the courage to post this here. It’s an important issue to discuss, and I know he’s a decent person who’s a bright, thoughtful, guy and someone who’s opinion I generally respect. This issue is so divisive (although it shouldn’t be) and it’s so easy to demonize those with whom we disagree. The easiest thing to have done would been to have tiptoed around it. The bold thing to have done was to have cannon-balled right in in the deep end. Thank you, Matt, for broaching this topic here. (Even though you’re way off)…

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @96redse5sp – awesome comment.

      I’m not going to pat him on the back and give him a shoulder chuck, a wink and an “attaboy”.
      This same topic has come up several times and has been debated in these threads several times.
      I fully agree that this is a devisive topic which should not be.
      His opinion just adds fuel to the fire. If it were to lead to logical discourse, then I’m all for it BUT I haven’t seen a logical argument against mask wearing.

      • 0 avatar
        96redse5sp

        I haven’t either. But this is the first opportunity I’ve had to at least have an intelligent discussion about this on the internet. That’s worth a lot to me. (There’s another car-oriented website that goes out of its way to discourage and frustrate any type of comment or commentary. Screw them).

  • avatar
    SharkDiver

    Dellta variant has a lower death rate than the regular flu…Forcing folks to wear masks is nothing more than a political tactic to shame people into getting the vaccination. Moreover, hospitals are not overflowing with Covid cases…And if you’re really worried about folks dying how about we outlaw tobacco and alcohol, since both of those cause far more death and destruction than the Delta variant. You Nervous Nellies really are entertaining to listen to.

    And before you label me an antivaxer, I got both my Covid shots AND both my shingles shots over the past 6 months. You may resume providing me with more entertainment now.

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      Do we really have to explain this – AGAIN.

      Death is a trailing indicator. We are 6 to 8 weeks away from “peak death” for Delta and based on the numbers out Indian and the UK, it’s around 2% like every other feckin’ strain before it for the unvaccinated.

      Let me explain this to you in the most simple of terms.

      99% to 99.9% depending on who’s math you use, of Delta deaths, are among the unvaccinated.

      Now if we assume that at least some of the unvaccinated are those who can’t get vaccinated we don’t have to jump this far to conclude:

      For every 90 Republican voters dying, 10 Independent/Democrat voters are dying. And if you don’t think people like Mitch McConnell and Steve Scalise haven’t run those numbers, you’re fooling yourself.

      • 0 avatar
        SharkDiver

        More entertainment! I said DEATH RATE…Peak death doesn’t change the rate. Just another Chicken Little argument with nothing to back it up. You have no proof hospitals will fill up from a virus that is less deadly than the flu…And if Delta variant as contagious as they say, EVERYONE will get it regardless of masks. You fascists that want forced vaccinations might be happier living in China or North Korea.

        • 0 avatar
          96redse5sp

          @SharkDiver. OK, I’ll play. What is the current death death rate of the delta variant in the US? And what’s a typical death rate for the flu? And how do you figure that the delta variant death rate will never change? You haven’t really been paying attention, have you?

        • 0 avatar
          APaGttH

          I have no proof?

          Huh. I’ll tell that to my wife.

          A doctor.

          At a Level 1 trauma hospital.

          That acute care, ICU, and ED is completely full.

          Where patients are waiting 90 minutes in ambulances just to get into the ED.

          Where non-COVID ICU patients are being staged in post-op because there is no where else to put them.

          I’ll let her know.

    • 0 avatar
      96redse5sp

      We haven’t outlawed tobacco and alcohol, because using them isn’t virulently contagious and doesn’t lead to the deaths of others. But speaking of alcohol, you know what we HAVE outlawed?!? Yeah. DWI is against the law in every state. It’s against the law because drunk drivers are responsible for the slaughter of innocent people who choose not to drink and drive. If drunk drivers killed only themselves, without taking innocent people with you, I’d be in favor of legalizing drunk driving. I pretty much feel the same way about mask-wearing and Covid vaccinations. (Except I don’t want to subsidize their ridiculousness with my tax dollars or health insurance premiums).

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @sharkdiver

      “Dellta variant has a lower death rate than the regular flu…”

      Influenza kills anywhere from a few thousand to well over 100,000 people in the USA per year.

      The USA sits at over 613,000 Covid-19 deaths.

      Any more fallacies you care to post?

    • 0 avatar
      96redse5sp

      The Delta variant has a lower death rate than the regular flu? Where did you get that from? The Delta variant is relatively new in the US. Cases are way up, but deaths from Covid have typically lagged the increased case numbers by up to month, Already, we’re seeing 72 deaths a day in Florida and over 300 deaths a day in the US. This will continue to escalate for at least the next two weeks. And this is July. Can you show us all the Julys where we were having 300+ daily flu deaths in the US? I’d be interested in seeing that.

      • 0 avatar
        APaGttH

        Yup. When DeSantis starts arguing over 10,300 or 11,000 are in the hospital – you know things are off the rails.

        Interesting fact – on June 19, the US had about 12.5K COVID patients – Florida, where DeSantis is releasing the numbers by the way, will likely hit 12.5K all on its own by the end of the week.

        But I guess DeSantis is part of the deep state now too. Can’t trust anyone…

    • 0 avatar
      96redse5sp

      “Moreover, hospitals are not overflowing with Covid cases…”

      That’s just an absolute falsehood. Florida and Louisiana are at crisis stage. If you’re just gonna make shit up, why are you even part of the debate?

    • 0 avatar
      96redse5sp

      You can’t even spell the word “Delta” yet you’re an expert in immunology and epidemiology. That’s quite an accomplishment.

      And as to your assertion that “hospitals are not overflowing with Covid cases,” this is from yesterday’s Miami Herald:

      “Florida reported 50,997 COVID-19 cases and 100 deaths over the last three days to the federal government as the state continues to see a surge in cases not seen since January, the month with the highest number of COVID cases since the pandemic began 18 months ago.”

      “Florida also broke its record for COVID-19 hospitalizations for the second day in a row, according to the data Florida reported for Monday to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.”

  • avatar
    golden2husky

    When your personal choice affects you and you only, you have every right to make a decision to do or not do. But when your choice affects me and others the way remaining unvaccinated does with Covid, its no longer just your choice. Sorry. This is the way it works with vaxxing kids for school. Or seat belt laws. And this is accepted but for covid is not? Why? So, as Spock so eloquently put it – The Needs of the Many Outweigh the Needs of the Few. Or the One. Time for the private employers to step up…vax up or find an new job. We should be past masks and fear by this point. Early reticence was understandable. But the constant misinformation being spewed by Tucker and other wackjobs is killing people. Yet those same people have no problem telling a woman what she can’t do with her body…hypocrites.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @golden2husky – The argument “I’m free to whatever I want” is a solo and self-isolating argument. The typical response is, “your right to swing your fists ends at the tip of my nose”.

      One cannot be totally free do do whatever they want if it puts others at risk. Your rights and freedom cannot impinge upon my rights and freedom.

      Which right is more important?

      Your right to refuse to wear a mask or my right to be put in a position of higher exposure to SARS-CoV-2?

      This is ethics 101.

  • avatar
    96redse5sp

    It’s interesting that you talk about abuse of power. My mother was a teenager in England during Hitler’s Blitz. There were Marshalls who would go around at night and rap on your door and chastise you if there was a sliver of light emanating from any portion of your house. Driving at night was prohibited (at least if you wanted to use headlights). Almost everything worthwhile was rationed and things like citrus was unobtainable. Life was a bitch. And you know who complained? NOBODY. Because everyone understood that sometimes life isn’t always about you, Sometimes it’s necessary to sacrifice a bit for the greater good. BECAUSE IF FOLKS RESISTED, INNOCENT PEOPLE WOILD DIE.

    My God, now we’re being asked to wear a tiny face mask and get a vaccination. And this is deemed to be so onerous and so oppressive that certain factions in this country are literally talking about preparing for Civil War II.

    If England had been populated by modern Americans, we would have mocked Churchill and told him to go fuck himself and Hitler would have pummeled us into oblivion.

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    See the map here:
    https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#county-view

    I live in a red area per that map (some of you might).

    We are red because vaccination rates are way below the threshold [70%-ish] where any kind of ‘herd immunity’ was predicted.

    Here is a vaccination tracker by state and by county:
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-19-vaccine-doses.html

    My county is in the ‘pathetic’ (my term) category.

    Because of this, I have no problem socially distancing and wearing a mask [an actual mask worn in the proper way] for longer. (But it is relatively easy for me to do this in my current situation.)

    • 0 avatar
      ToolGuy

      Vaccines aren’t and will never be perfect, and staying away from people is an Extremely Good Idea right now – but much of America is done and moving on (and jumping the gun in my estimation).

      As I have stated before, I’m a huge fan of some vaccines (in general) and have questions about others [for the record, I got the Moderna as soon as it was available to me; my spouse and kids all got Moderna or Pfizer]. It is entirely possible for reasonable people to have reservations about the vaccines on offer; dismissing them as ‘idiots’ isn’t necessarily helpful. (Let us also remember that no Covid vaccines are currently available for children under age 12.)

      Meanwhile the Suspiciously Unnatural virus continues to evolve (naturally):

      https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-science-suggests-a-wuhan-lab-leak-11622995184

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        A lab leak is plausible. Genetic engineering isn’t.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          What? You’re saying this after Faucci emails uncover that virus has signs of modifications, when Chinese military is nearly certainly was involved. Yea, it is a leak but it is a leak of a modified virus. China started to work on vaccine before WHO said it was dangerous. Your brain software is missing important updates. Your system may become unstable.

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          A lab leak is plausible. Genetic engineering (gain of function) was being done at the Wuhan lab at least partially funded by NIH money under Fauci’s aegis. Rand Paul’s questioning of Fauci before congress included references to the relevant and unequivocal documents.

      • 0 avatar
        Art Vandelay

        @Toolguy I know we have our differences, but that is the most logical summary I’ve read on here in a long time.

        I too got the vaccine, but as a 20 year Military guy, yeah…I have a healthy skepticism when they say “it’s safe…don’t worry.”

        I remember my first deployment going through the pre deployment medical checks. I came to a station and asked “What’s This”. The dude responded “required” and stuck it in my arm. To this day, I have no idea what it was.

        But you are correct, healthy skepticism is different than “OMG…ITS MICROCHIPS”.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          “healthy skepticism” I’m with you on that point.

          The problem does lie with the “microchip” and “all or nothing” crowd. All of this is multiple shades of gray. It isn’t clearly delineated absolutes and that is how polarization frames the discussion.

          if I was talking to you or @toolguy or some of the more logically cynical (healthy skeptics) we could tease out these nuances and walk away satisfied.

      • 0 avatar
        ToolGuy

        Here is a good summary of where we stand with the Delta variant (B.1.617.2):

        https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/delta-variant-most-prevalent/2021/08/08/d1017f0e-f558-11eb-9068-bf463c8c74de_story.html

        The ‘herd immunity threshold’ of ~70% above? Make it more like 90% for Delta.

        Meaning -> We need a Plan. (and don’t have one)

  • avatar
    Tele Vision

    My sister is a radiologist. She’s seen more COVID-19 in a day than most of us have throughout the pandemic. Here’s the short and easy-to-read version for the ‘Moar Freedoms!!1!’ crowd:

    Masks work.

    They help to prevent potential spread of the virus, as one could have it for up to two weeks before symptoms set in.

    The virus needs a host in which to mutate. More hosts = more mutations.

    Vaccinated people have far less – if any – symptoms with the Delta variant but it can still kill the unvaccinated.

    tl;dr Masks help keep the flat-Earthers alive.

  • avatar
    96redse5sp

    It’s interesting that you talk about abuse of power. My mother was a teenager in England during Hitler’s Blitz. There were Marshalls who would go around at night and rap on your door and chastise you if there was a sliver of light emanating from any portion of your house. Driving at night was prohibited (at least if you wanted to use headlights). Almost everything worthwhile was rationed and things like citrus was unobtainable. Life was a bitch. And you know who complained? NOBODY. Because everyone understood that sometimes life isn’t always about you, Sometimes it’s necessary to sacrifice a bit for the greater good. BECAUSE IF FOLKS RESISTED, INNOCENT PEOPLE WOILD DIE.

    • 0 avatar
      Tele Vision

      @96redse5sp

      Yours is the allusion I’ve been using: The one guy on the London street who ‘doesn’t believe in German bombers’ and thinks that ‘WWII is a scam’ and leaves all of his lights on at night. His house won’t be the only house levelled – the entire block will take hits, purely because of his myopic/infantile/uneducated/knee-jerk beliefs.

      The stupid are welcome to die on their stupid hill.

      Meanwhile we enlightened will do everything we can to keep them alive.

      • 0 avatar
        96redse5sp

        During the Blitz, you were subject to arrest even for striking a match or smoking outdoors during the night. And you’re right, the primary concern wasn’t you. The wardens were concerned about preventing mass casualties because the rockets and bombs were indiscriminate

  • avatar
    ItsBob

    Really goofy article.
    So crazy had to apply for a lost password to comment for first time in many years.
    Having read this author’s prior works I’m just flummoxed!!!
    Maybe it’s not even about masks but—kliks?

  • avatar
    ajla

    FWIW I see some folks bringing up seatbelt laws and those were actually *extremely* controversial and it took decades for the states to pass them. Some states repealed mandates after passing them. There still is no federal law requiring seat belt usage in the US. New Hampshire still doesn’t really have one.

    Here’s some pre2020 articles about it:
    chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1987-02-05-8701090791-story.html
    jalopnik.com/there-was-once-a-time-when-consumers-fought-to-make-
    the-1821507722
    nytimes.com/1986/12/01/us/voting-out-seat-belts-is-faulted.html

    Perhaps even more relevant, here’s an article about medical mask requirements during the 1918 pandemic.
    readex.com/blog/anti-mask-league-san-francisco-protesting-mask-wearing-
    ordinance-during-1918-flu-pandemic

    My point here isn’t to be for or against anything in particular, but we don’t live in as unique of times as some people like to believe.

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      How about the people who fought against DRLs. They significantly reduce fuel economy! They’re distracting! They blind you during the daytime!

      Oy.

    • 0 avatar
      96redse5sp

      Until Nader’s 1965 Unsafe at Any Speed, seat belts were not even required equipment in any car, and mandating them was quite controversial (except in Detroit where opposition was nearly unanimous). They were first required in the 1968 model year and have saved tens of thousands of lives since.

  • avatar
    Lou_BC

    @Old_WRX – a “vax resistant mutation” means that the virus has mutated to the point where the immune system no longer recognized the virus or parts of it. It depends on how the vaccine is designed to interact with the immune system.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DlFjIVIIcCvc&ved=2ahUKEwiK48XnmZbyAhUbJzQIHf7aBUUQwqsBegQIBBAG&usg=AOvVaw3xTylopn7Yaqe5EzexlbJo

  • avatar
    ozzypriest

    Matt, your opinion is not only wrong, but will kill people. There is no need to even argue the point, the facts are easily available. Vaccines, Covid and masks are a public health issue, and many lives depend on getting the vaccine and /or masking. I would like for you to get the virus, and then report back with another story. It is incredibly disheartening that resistance to medicine and science have been politicized to the point of madness. The utility of getting a vaccine is so that you won’t die. YFI.

  • avatar
    Greg Hamilton

    This clip of Jean Luc Picard seems strangely appropriate:
    “https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jln3mi0vfJU”

  • avatar
    Greg Hamilton

    I’m not devout by any means, but I do recognized people who are more intelligent than I am. Here is an example of such a man, and here are his thoughts:
    http://www.chananyaweissman.com/article.php?id=263

  • avatar
    96redse5sp

    This will give you some idea of the mentality we’re dealing with with the AntiVa. An Axios/Ipsos poll released Tuesday found that among the unvaccinated, 90% are pointing fingers elsewhere when assessing blame for the current spike in cases:

    37% blame immigrants and others traveling to the US from abroad;
    27% blame the mainstream media,;
    23% blame Americans traveling to other countries;
    21% blame Biden; and
    10% blame the unvaccinated…

  • avatar
    el scotto

    I say stop arguing, try to explain or persuade the anti-vaccine people. Their “Death Through Ignorance” campaign will be welcomed. Their deaths will edge the vaccinated closer to herd immunity. Oh Heck! I can’t resist. Know why 70% of your grocery store parking spaces aren’t reserved for the handicapped? The polio vaccine.

  • avatar
    Astigmatism

    “Sadly this places me at odds with these types of mandates and could even make it impossible for me to attend the New York International Auto Show this month without sacrificing my own deeply held beliefs.”

    Nobody has yet explained to me what exactly the “deeply held beliefs” are that require people to forego vaccination against a deadly virus or refuse to wear a mask to help reduce its spread. 30% of the country didn’t become Christian Scientists overnight.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      Deadlier than a flu?
      CDC – 2017-2018 season had the highest reported number of pediatric deaths, with 188 pediatric deaths reported.
      Covid TOTAL – 406 deaths – none were healthy kids. But only 43% of 175 kids with flue had pre-existing condition.

      So the flu is deadlier then COVID for healthy children

      wait – “For example, even though the reported number of deaths during the 2017-2018 flu season was 188, CDC estimates the actual number was closer to 600. It is likely the actual number of children who died from flu during the 2019-2020 season is higher as well.”

      https://www.cdc.gov/flu/spotlights/2019-2020/2019-20-pediatric-flu-deaths.htm

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        More misdirection and miscommunication.

        Children aren’t being vaccinated for COVID-19 but those as young as six can get the infuenza vaccine.

        How many stupid attempts do you get before getting sent to the gulag?

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Read English? Read again. This is pediatric deaths. Straight and clear. Has nothing to do with vaccinations. Flu more deadly – period. I know, in canada you stuck your nose up into Trudeau’s a…

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            LOL.

            Pediatric illness has never been the issue with SARS-CoV-2.

            More misdirection and miscommunication.

            Keep on mining.

            Someone’s gotta keep the CooCoo train running at Fool Steam Ahead!

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Lou , you know you lost this one. Be a man. Stand up and face it.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “you know you lost this one”

            Seriously?

            Gotta find a win…any win…any pathetic scrap of evidence.

            You have an upcoming performance review at the troll farm?

    • 0 avatar
      96redse5sp

      “Sadly this places me at odds with these types of mandates and could even make it impossible for me to attend the New York International Auto Show this month without sacrificing my own deeply held beliefs.”

      I know a guy who doesn’t like to wash his hands after using the toilet. It dries out his fingers. And the nasty stares he gets as he’s leaving the bathroom? It’s just so unfair. His hands – his choice. And every day he has to fear that he’ll get fired at the restaurant where he works, solely because of his deeply held beliefs. There’s already talk about pulling him from salad-bar duties. Why are there so many busybodies? Why can’t they just leave him be?

  • avatar
    Germanicevich

    Mr. Matt Posky, I consider you and the people spreading the same opinion as you the main cause of a prolonged covid-19 pandemic. I hope never get at “aerosols dispersing distance” from you.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      Oh, you don’t think this is Chinese military, WHO, Pelosi and Faucci that is the cause? Interesting

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        You forgot to add liberals, democrats, blacks, browns, AyeRabz, Jews, immigrants and LGBTQ.

        if you gonna say dumb sh!t might as well go all the way!

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Lets talk about blacks. All this passed year and a half it was all about the race. Now, nobody talks about the race. Only talk about “unvaccinated”. Well, only 31% of blacks is vaccinated. Second lowest are hispanics. What, not enough courage to call race this time – hey you, unvaccinated bas___ds?

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            @slavuta: You’re posting this at 8:30 am St. Petersburg Russia time. Getting an early start on your day I see.

          • 0 avatar
            96redse5sp

            “Lets talk about blacks. All this passed year and a half it was all about the race. Now, nobody talks about the race. Only talk about “unvaccinated”. Well, only 31% of blacks is vaccinated. Second lowest are hispanics. What, not enough courage to call race this time – hey you, unvaccinated bas___ds?”

            Your numbers are wrong, but your premise is right. Blacks and Hispanics are disproportionately more likely to be unvaxxed and to die of COVID. And the liberal media refuses to broach this topic.

            That is a big reason why Govs DeSantis and Abbott are doing everything they can to milk and prolong this pandemic with everything in their power. That’s why they can vigorously oppose mask and vax mandates. They are not worried that it will hurt their popularity or handicap them in future elections. But they get to attack any Dem who argues for mandates and continued restrictions. It’s a win/win.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            “And the liberal media refuses to broach this topic.”

            This is extremely concerning.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “And the liberal media refuses to broach this topic.”

            Wrong. It took me about six seconds to find this article.

            There are scores more like it.

            https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-black-vaccine-hesitancy/2021/02/13/1abc1006-661f-11eb-886d-5264d4ceb46d_story.html

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @Slobuto – “What, not enough courage to call race this time – hey you, unvaccinated bas___ds?”

            That line wasn’t in the water for very long… Hooked a big fat racist sucker fish… hook, line and sinker.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          BS Lou

          Shows how much you know history and the world. While US GI of color couldn’t take a p…s in the same restroom as white soldier in WW2, USSR was built on Internationale. People from USSR are absolutely race-free. USSR was home to 120 ethnic groups. And we welcomed Africans to study in our Universities. This is American issue, not mine. I am actually shocked that some people in US decided to rollback all the gains done from 1960s.

  • avatar
    Art Vandelay

    One Presidential administration and more money than we spent defeating Germany and Japan later and the best we get is a lot of hope and “Please wear a mask”. God Bless America!

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      USSR defeated 7.5 German Divisions out of every 10. And BTW, a huge Japanese Kwantung Army in China too. And all the Romanians, Hungarians, Slovaks, French, Danish/Norvvegians, Italians, 100 Spanish volunteers… have I missed anyone?

      • 0 avatar
        Art Vandelay

        Yeah, the Soviet Union was instrumental in defeating the Germans. Feel Better? There was one country prepared to fight in both theaters while keeping all of this European countries in the fight though. Yeah, Geography played a role, but there weren’t a ton of Russians in the Pacific…you guys were too busy employing the brilliant tactic of throwing people at the enemy. Hey, it worked, but I don’t know why you feel the need to denigrate the contributions of the US. You held Stalingrad by the skin of your teeth. Do you hold it if Hitler can ship those divisions in France to the Western Front? Maybe, maybe not.

        I’m just glad we dropped the bomb so we didn’t have to sell Japan in to the Same slavery we had to deliver Eastern Europe to for all you guys’ “help”

        Anyway, you went from all that to basically a failed Petro state. We look at China as a “Near Peer”. You guys are basically on Iran’s level…a thorn in our side, bit not much more

        And if you’d take Putin over any of the Western leaders, please go home and take him. We don’t need you.

        Feel free to take your little $#!+box Mazdas with you.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          I give you 2 scenarios

          1. Germany and USSR live in harmony. Outcome – Eventual fall of Britain, and US as well. US never gets German technology and never becomes a super power.

          2. Germany defeats USSR in 1941. Germany may become even stronger and the outcome would be same as #1

          USSR made US contribution even possible. If USSR had not stopped Germans in 1941 (see above), there wouldn’t be a D-day.

          Stalingrad was German plan-B, or may be even C because they failed to achieve the main objective – victory 3 months after start, take Moscow, take Leningrad, take Baku oil fields. Stalingrad was a trap. Soviets kept Germans occupied while secretly preparing a massive counter-offensive. At the end of Stalingrad Germans had 195 divisions on the eastern front vs 49 in the Western. Only in 1944 as Germans became defense-only, they shipped more divisions to the West.

          I am not saying US had not contributed in Europe. Bombing of German industrial sites was probably the biggest thing. But on-land fighting can’t even be compared vs Eastern Front.

          I assume, you called Russia “failed petro-state”. I think, you’re mistaken. If this was the case, then your great leader, or dear leader, also Pentagon and others, wouldn’t be talking daily of all the challenges that Russia creates to the US. So far, what I see, my homeland, which is Ukraine (although I prefer USSR) is way worse than Russia after they decided to join US circuits. Failed petro states don’t commission more navy vessels than US in any particular year. And this is exactly the case for the last year and this year. When Russia deployed 80K troops in just 2 days around Ukraine, Biden made a really big dump in his pants because losing Ukraine would be a personal disaster for him.

          Yea, soldier. Half of people in Europe would rather see a man like Putin than their own leaders. W/hat kind leaders are these? disaster. In Germany, during protests, you can often hear – Putin, Putin
          http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1270775/pg2
          https://news.yahoo.com/banner-russias-putin-hung-york-city-bridge-222652144.html
          https://apnews.com/65596c0d49eb4c249f98d6501c6dacad/Italian-farmer-turns-field-into-Putin-portrait-ahead-of-G20

          And lastly, read Japanese historians. Not the atomic bomb but Soviet involvement made Japan surrender.

  • avatar
    Art Vandelay

    I just want to say…7 Mojitos in and Slavuta is still a moron. My God…how much must I drink for him to start making sense. I’m guessing the phrase “you know, I’d hit Kaitlin Jenner” or “You know, the Kardashians really should get the Nobel Prize…and none of that for peace BS…I am talking for physics” will be uttered long before that happens.

    And I’d thank you as a taxpayer for buying these Mojitos, but I’m off the clock now and let’s be honest, whatever I paid in taxes today probably covered the rent moratorium on your single wide you fncking worthless commie hack.

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      10. Still an idiot

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      American education is crap. And you are just a result of it. You’re indoctrinated people really. First they were indoctrinating you with “america is great”, now “america is bad”. You just get indoctrinated all the time. You have writers who create propaganda books on orders from State department, Pentagon, etc. You read this and believe it. Then you tell us, the free people (even if we weren’t physically we were mentally and spiritually) how things were, those of us who actually experienced it.

      We, people from Eastern Europe know how this looks and feels. It is a shame that you even enjoying to boil in this soup of lies and misinformation. US is going exactly same way USSR went.
      My friend, who was born here said, if you want to flee communism, you need to go to Eastern Europe.

      @Art,

      but not a useful idiot as what you’ve been to Pentagon.

      • 0 avatar
        Art Vandelay

        Oh, do tell. I know you are sore that I helped off a lot of your Taliban brothers so I’ll just let that slide.

        Anyway, I wish you’d go home. One less leech to support

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          You don’t support me. I’ve made it good in US. My son told me that this is supreme core knowledge that we received in the old country that propelled soviet immigrants in America. Russia, Ukraine, they took (partially) western style of education after break up. Their education level went down. China took Soviet style of education and look where they are. International tests show US students testing 37th in science.

          You don’t even understand that US today is not America we knew

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            We are lower in education scores for one reason primarily…equal opportunity. Everyone gets the same opportunity right up until the end. If we took the approach of the nation’s you mention, by the end we’d have filtered out many of the ones dragging those scores down and shuffled them off to work in factory. Our system is not without flaw, but we don’t throw kids away so that seems like an ok tradeoff.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Art, I think, you’re off target here. True, I don’t know how kids are selected, not in US not in China or Russia. But knowing soviet system that is utilized in China, all kids required same subjects, same level. Although, there were schools with special subject. For example my wife studied in school where she learned English for 10 years daily. She was top scoring english student here in her class.
          I believe in those countries all kids treated equally until college time. You need to pass entry exam. You can have C in your school math but as long as you get enough points on college entry – you’re in. There are cases when your math-strong school gives you B but this B is way good for passing entry test.

          In Netherlands, government gives you the $$ they spend on you – you can go to any school you want with this $$. People are trying to get into best schools. Bad schools closing down. Same thing in Russia – you can chose your public school.

          • 0 avatar
            el scotto

            @slavuta; Grammarly; seriously get Grammarly. It will be less pain for all involved.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            So basically “I don’t know d!ck about what I’m talking about, but here is a long opinion anyway”.

            Thanks

  • avatar
    Imagefont

    Lately I’ve been reading news stories about anti-vaxxers or simply people who are reluctant or lazy about taking the time to get the vaccine contracting the virus.
    Man that must be an I-told-you-so-moment for them.
    Imagine getting sicker and sicker and then being admitted to the hospital, wishing you’d taken better care of yourself, wondering where all the anti-vax cheer leaders were – not in your hospital room, for sure.
    How sick do you have to get before you break down and admit that you were wrong? And do you, even then, take full responsibility? I’ll bet these people have never taken responsibility for anything in their lives, But as they lay dying, or believing they’ll die, I’ll bet they ask for the vaccine, only to be told it’s too late. Then facing intubation and the possibility of being sedated and never waking up. Might as well be lethal injection, all because you took an absurd stand based on your ill considered world view, based on complete nonsense. You can take your rights with you, right to the grave.

  • avatar
    mcs

    Hey, why stop at masks. Let the autoworkers have more personal freedom by letting them go barefoot while assembling cars? The shoe mandates must end. I doubt there is a single study showing that going shoeless in an auto plant is more dangerous than wearing shoes.

    A shoe mandate isn’t going to result in happier workers, better cars, or anyone becoming more competitive. Automakers should give people the choice to wear shoes and hope a sufficient number decide to roll with it. By now, everyone should know the risks and how to mitigate the amount they’re personally exposed to. It’s time to act and treat others like adults again.

    For food service workers, a handwashing rule isn’t going to result in happier workers, better food, or anyone becoming more competitive. Restauranteurs should give cooks the choice to wash their hands and hope a sufficient number decide to roll with it. By now, everyone should know the risks and how to mitigate the amount they’re personally exposed to. It’s time to act and treat others like adults again.

  • avatar
    teddyc73

    Everyone in America should be refusing to wear a mask. Enough is enough. The power hungry government and these companies which so willing follow the government need to be sent a message. We’re done with your stupid mandates. However, there is a large percentage of our population which has been so ingrained with fear, again, from the government, they will do everything they are instructed to do. Frightening how quickly people are willing to give up their freedoms and how easily they are persuaded by government officials. “It’s just a piece of cloth!” Yeah, well, they go you with this one, even made you lock yourself in your home, what’s next?

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      “people are willing to give up their freedoms”

      Freedoms are not unabridged. Every freedom has limits, despite what you may have been told.

      Freedom of speech is limited by libel and slander laws – you can’t just say anything you want.

      Freedom to assemble is limited by security or safety concerns – you can’t have a family picnic on a military base or a disaster site, for example.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @teddyc73

      The argument “I’m free to whatever I want” is a solo and self-isolating argument. The typical response is, “your right to swing your fists ends at the tip of my nose”.

      One cannot be totally free do do whatever they want if it puts others at risk. Your rights and freedom cannot impinge upon my rights and freedom.

      Which right is more important?

      Your right to refuse to wear a mask or my right to be put in a position of higher exposure to SARS-CoV-2?

      This is ethics 101.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        Lou, you just want be a tyrant. Don’t be surprised finding yourself in Mussolini’s position..

        • 0 avatar
          el scotto

          @slavuta; you’re slipping and need to be reported immediately to the higher authorities. One of Putin’s boys should never, ever bring up a non-Russian dictator. You know only Russian and only the best Russians will do. Your ex-KGB boss was “freely elected” so how about Brezhnev as an example?

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            el scotto,

            I repeat, I never held residency in Russian Federation, and Putin came to power when I was long time gone from that continent. I simply don’t see the issue of Putin that many here have. FDR was elected 4 times and US did not have limits back then. Putin manipulated the system – sure. But in the end, nobody pulled any of Russian senators arms to push the Yea vote. It just happened that for the longest time Putin’s party has the majority and many other parties support his administration in many ways. For example Communists and Liberal Democrats – 2 largest fractions, support his foreign policy.
            I listen to Russian Chicago radio station. They have a program where hosts call mostly Russian liberals, people who generally oppose Putin. And they always ask a few standard questions – is Putin a dictator? Does Putin manipulates elections? etc. And you know what I’ve heard them saying to constant surprise of the hosts? – here
            – Putin dictator? – eh, a soft one
            – elections? – unfortunately many people still like him. There is no doubt he wins federal elections. (On a local level elections definitely manipulated)
            – Putin did a lot for the country. But he needs to know when to step down.

            See, these are serious political figures, not those charlatans that being quoted in American media. You gonna say now that they simply afraid to say something… No. Echo Moscow, Rain radio/TV, they constantly let lose some crap on Putin and the government, and they are still there.

            Putin is a state builder – this is his greatest attribute. He saved Russian Federation from falling apart and increased its capabilities. Meanwhile you can look at Ukraine that decided to go “western way”. Huge difference. With the Soviet inheritance it had it was supposed to be a 3rd powerful state in Europe. 52 million people. Now, hardly 40 million and dead industrial complex. Russia meanwhile commissions 40 ships in 2020. http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/naval-news/naval-news-archive/2020/july/8701-russian-navy-to-commission-more-than-40-ships-in-2020.html
            US will do 46 in 5 years. Ukraine used to be main builder of Soviet navy, now doing what? nothing. Soviets had the larges trade fleet. https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/morflot-sov.htm
            Speaking of Brezhnev…

            No, Lou will go Mussolini. Brezhnev lived a long productive life. He softened soviet regime. They should of allowed free market, and the private business, and country would go to where China is now.

        • 0 avatar
          el scotto

          @slavuta; the more you type, the more you let us see that you have no idea how America works. With declining Pravda circulation and as an “Afghansty” you should be happy for your job at the St. Petersburg troll from. You and the other guys typing under your name should really used SharePoint to keep continuity and time frames straight. More than one guy writes under your “byline”; different tones and levels of education come across in all your combined missives.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            el scotto,

            you’re either a plain fool or a state department propagandist.

            As long as you repeat your mantras you will not see the true picture. But I now believe, you want to remain where you are.

    • 0 avatar
      el scotto

      @teddyc73; Sir, where I work you have to wear a mask to enter the complex. You have to wear a mask to enter any of the buildings. You have to wear a mask at your desk. You have exactly two choices: 1. wear a mask, 2, Get Fired. Your theories of not wearing a mask come crashing into my reality of having to a wear a mask. Giving up what could be called “freedoms” and a rather weak argument calling them “freedoms” is much less worrisome to me than the “freedoms” of jobless, eviction, repossessions and bankruptcy. I do have a clever solution for you. Bribe a Chik-fil-a employee for their mask. It’s a uniform item, I asked. The folks who own Chik-fil-a are attuned to a lot of things the “my freedoms” people are into with fundamental Christianity and hatred of homosexuals at the fore for them. I could be wrong but those steams seem to run together.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Yeah that was talked about early last summer, I and I imagine a lot of people said no way am I sitting in my cube alone in my office alone (second cube was empty) with an N95 choking me for eight hours. I said if I have to use the hallway, restroom, or coffee machine, alright but not isolated sitting in my chair all day. Then they revoked the water cooler and *coffee machine* which started some stuff. Finally after some nasty reviews on the annual employee survey we were sent home and have been ever since, our office lease having since been terminated. Most jobs do not require office space and haven’t for at least the last fifteen years, only winners are various landlords and oil companies.

        • 0 avatar
          el scotto

          @28-Cars-Later. The various landlords have no one to rent to and people working from home don’t need to buy gas for their commute. The hall way, bathroom, and common kitchen are exempt by exposure time.

  • avatar
    dougjp

    ” Except what would be the utility of getting vaccinated when the decision literally serves as an example that you’ll still be subjected to COVID restrictions? ”

    Unbelievable to read this! Obviously, the ‘utility’ is to defeat the virus, so as to (a) have the chance to live, and/or live without permanent lung disability, and (b) have a chance of getting rid of the very same virus you seem to deny exists!

    Oh and trying to justify doing nothing because of inconsistent messaging? Again, unbelievable to read this. Its a virus! It mutates! People try to keep up and learn to defend against what has been a superior enemy. What part of basic understanding is intentionally ignored here? Look at yesterday’s stats for all time high hospitalizations in Florida and Louisiana.

    I seldom respond to click bait articles such as this, but its gone too far.

  • avatar
    TheEndlessEnigma

    Great job injecting politics into what is, and should be, nothing more than an automobile and automobile enthusiast website. Content here has been slipping the past few years, the fun that was TTAC seems to be gone, the things that made TTAC unique are gone as well. You’re just another car site now and one that has been, little by little, injecting content that is irrelevant to cars and car culture. I’ve been following TTAC for 10+ years now, I think that time is coming to an end.

  • avatar
    sirwired

    “Except what would be the utility of getting vaccinated when the decision literally serves as an example that you’ll still be subjected to COVID restrictions?”

    Seriously? The “utility of getting vaccinated” is staying out of the hospital or morgue. What other possible incentive could you need?

  • avatar
    Kendahl

    With the earlier COVID variants, vaccination essentially took you out of the equation. The vaccines kept you from contracting the virus which meant you didn’t get sick and you couldn’t spread it to others. Delta can infect vaccinated people and, while infected, they can spread the disease as efficiently as infected people who were never vaccinated. The one thing that still makes getting vaccinated worthwhile is that, if infected, you won’t get seriously sick much less die. It’s the unvaccinated who are doing that.

    Masks help. They’re not perfect. For that, you need to wear a biohazard suit. But, by slowing the velocity of exhaled droplets carrying the virus, they reduce the size of the virus cloud that surrounds an infected person’s head. If you never go near anyone else, you don’t need to wear a mask. They are for times when absolute avoidance isn’t feasible.

  • avatar
    jmo

    “Meanwhile, national suicide rates… have been similarly elevated”

    The suicide rate dropped during the pandemic.

    https://psychnews.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.pn.2021.6.15

  • avatar

    tagged as “clickbait”

  • avatar
    numike

    REMEMBER 9/11?
    Amazing the disconnect. About twenty years ago the Pentagon was rabbiting on about how the Global War on Terror would have to be a multi-generational thing and would last decades at the very least. People looked up, remembered that it would only effect a bunch of ‘grunts’, remembered too that Bush only asked of them to keep on shopping, and they then went back to whatever the hell they were doing.

    And now we aren’t even twenty months into this pandemic, much less than the twenty years in Iraq & Afghanistan, and people are having a brain melt down at the thought of more of the same in front of us for an indeterminate number of years. A large reason is because they have been constantly lied to about this by our leaders and no, not just in the US. But if people really wanted to know about this, they could have done their own research to get some answers. There is even a tool for this. It is called ‘the internet’.

  • avatar
    numike

    COVID: Bhutan fully vaccinates 90 percent of adults within a week WERE STILL ARGUING ABOUT IT

  • avatar
    turiMaximo

    Only if we all did our part collectively, without coming up with reasons not to, then we could’ve been out of this pandemic already.

  • avatar
    Arthur Dailey

    Posky you obviously do not understand the meaning of our the roots of liberalism. It emanates largely from the works of John Stuart Mill who based his philosophy on utilitarianism, defined as what brings ‘the greatest happiness for the greatest number’.

    In this case, implementing public health measures outweighs for the good of most of the population, by preventing illness, outweighs any infringement on the ‘rights’ of those who disagree with these measures.

    Particularly in something like wearing a mask which is not an invasive requirement.

  • avatar
    el scotto

    The whole mask thing is going to go political fast. I see the Federal Government saying, mask or test; or just mask. See my previous post. I live in Virginia. Our state employees have to vaccinate or get tested. I can see more states saying vaccinate, or mask and get tested. The testing is unpleasant, cue the nut jobs saying they WANT it to be unpleasant; unpleasant enough most people will get vaccinated. This will break down between red states/blue states. The political leaders and most of the residents of the new confederacy will proudly proclaim that they won’t get vaccinated or mask. “Muh Freedoms” ya know? At this rate covid won’t be over by next spring.

  • avatar
    ozzypriest

    I cannot believe how many selfish, idiotic conservative F-faces are on this site, promoting lies, selfishness, republican/oann/fox talking points, repeating completely baseless, clueless spurious and specious ‘arguments’ from ‘another side’ There is no other side on this issue, you murder of MORONS – 28 days later, all of you effing idiots, you are hurting and killing people with your attitudes and behavior. All I can hope for is that the same horrific fate that has visited many Americans who believed you and your party’s insanity is visited upon yourself. I am now to the point where I seriously want bad things, bad bad things to happen to you and your ilk. Like, now, Right the F now.

    • 0 avatar
      ToolGuy

      “Today, on this January day, my whole soul is in this:

      Bringing America together.

      Uniting our people.

      And uniting our nation.

      I ask every American to join me in this cause.”

      https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/01/20/inaugural-address-by-president-joseph-r-biden-jr/

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