By on July 30, 2021

For the last several nights it’s been impossible to turn on a screen and not encounter some besuited mouthpiece telling you that face coverings and social distancing will be the peak of fashion by this fall. In the real world, we’ve seen this mirrored by governments and businesses reinstituting COVID restrictions. General Motors even got out early and decided (with encouragement from the UAW) to bring back masking in Missouri.

Now it’s Ford’s turn. 

Having previously revived masking rules for its facilities in two states, the Blue Oval informed its Kentucky workforce that it will likewise be subject to restrictions on Thursday. According to Automotive News, the rules won’t go into effect for Kentucky Truck and Louisville Assembly until Sunday.

Rules appear to be the same as the ones lifted by all of the Big Three on July 12th. Ford’s stated reasoning is identical to what was provided earlier in the week, when it announced restrictions for Missouri and Florida. It’s worried about elevated infection figures and the Delta variant getting line workers sick. But while the Show-Me State yields Ford’s Kansas City Assembly Plant, Florida only has some parts warehouses/shipping hubs. Restrictions pertain to everyone, including those who have been fully vaccinated.

From AN:

A Ford spokeswoman reiterated a statement issued Tuesday that the automaker could make additional changes as necessary based on data. The delta variant of the virus that causes COVID-19 continues to spread in various areas throughout the U.S.

Also this week, Ford said it will require U.S. employees to be fully vaccinated against COVID-19 before any international business travel, based on recommendations by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

But Ford’s initial decisions were actually made shortly before the CDC updated guidance that vaccinated people begin wearing masks again, with the same being true for General Motors. But the UAW had been in discussions with medical experts and the companies all year to decide what protocols would be ideal for individual worksites. They clearly played a factor in GM’s decision to return to masking and likely had a hand in encouraging Ford to do likewise.

Stellantis has kept relatively quiet about the matter but GM and Ford have said they plan on keeping CDC guidance at the front of their mind when determining future safety protocols. While we haven’t been able to take the temperature of any automotive employees on the updated factory rules, several expressed mixed feelings on masking at the end of June. Employee compliance was also said to be getting lax, making us wonder if workers (or employers) will even bother adhering to masking mandates with any seriousness this late in the game. After all, the original “two weeks to flatten the curve” has lasted roughly five hundred days and we’re seeing fewer and fewer covered faces out there.

[Image: Miljan Zivkovic/Shutterstock]

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154 Comments on “Ford Reintroducing Mask Requirements in Three States...”


  • avatar
    RangerM

    They can do what they want in their own facilities.

    But, it’s more of the same mixed (CDC) signals we’ve been getting since COVID began.

    • 0 avatar
      jkross22

      Yes.

      Of the billions spent on developing and incentivizing and manufacturing and distribution of the vaccines, why has there been no study comparing mask wearing to non-mask wearing?

      One would imagine that if there is definitive evidence that masking slows or prevents the spread of CoV, that it would be a helluva data point to encourage people to do so. Unless it doesn’t actually work. Which would be good to know as well.

      • 0 avatar
        FerrariLaFerrariFace

        There have been plenty of those studies if you care to look for them. Of course, which studies you decide to pay attention to, or whether you want to pay attention at all, is going to depend greatly on which echo chamber you stick your head into.

        https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=mask+effectiveness+studies+against+covid&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart

        • 0 avatar
          jkross22

          Ferrari, Thanks for that link. Candidly, I didn’t know those studies had been conducted, so that’s my bad.

          Interestingly, one of the studies listed expressed that surgical masks prevent the spread of SARS CoV-2, but that N95 masks do not. By inference, cloth masks likely do not either.

          https://erj.ersjournals.com/content/55/6/2001260.figures-only

          • 0 avatar
            Luke42

            @jkross: “Candidly, I didn’t know those studies had been conducted, so that’s my bad.”

            The pundits in your news stream have neglected to do the basic homework necessary to be knowledgeable about the issues they’re pontificating on in public.

            Pundits owe the public the minimal competence of a quick search on http://scholar.google.com before they go on the air to discuss scientific issues.

            Time to upgrade to better pundits.

          • 0 avatar
            jkross22

            @Luke, my pundits would be the CDC, Fauci and local health officials. It’s been another reminder that lack of trust is still needing to be our default positions.

          • 0 avatar
            Luke42

            @jkross22:

            If that were the case, you’d be much better informed than you are.

            I suggest Science Friday:
            http://sciencefriday.com

            They interview the actual scientists. The hosts are usually pretty good about getting the guests to drop the jargon and explain what they really mean.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          FerrariLaFerrariFace

          google link?
          Just take me straight to Jan6 Commission or BLM web site

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @jkross22 – this meta-analysis of studies is a good read.

        https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

        “Conclusion

        Our review of the literature offers evidence in favor of widespread mask use as source control to reduce community transmission”

        • 0 avatar
          jkross22

          @Lou,

          Thanks for the link! I don’t have the time right now to read in its entirety, but the bottom line in the conclusion made no bones….

          “Models suggest that public mask wearing is most effective at reducing spread of the virus when compliance is high”

          These results are perplexing when you consider the real life labs called states. California and our fairly compliant population masked up to a large extent, and much more so than states like Florida. So why were the outbreaks and percentages higher here than in Fla, a place where pervasive masking wasn’t as high of a priority?

          So much so that the mask became the lefty equivalent to a red MAGA hat.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @jkross22

            One can’t typically do “double-blind” studies with COVID-19 due to ethical considerations. Add to that compliance and environmental variables.

            There is evidence emerging that the best strategy for the future is markedly improving air circulation/ventilation and air purification.

            Flu and colds have markedly dropped due to COVID-19 measures. Colds don’t typically kill but are a huge time loss factor. Flu’s do kill large numbers ranging from a few thousand to over a hundred thousand per year(but no where near the same as COVID-19)

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            Mask efficacy is dependent upon a number of factors including not only the type of mask being worn but also whether or not it is being worn ‘properly’.

            In a workplace where distancing is not available then the workers also have to be separated by a barrier or wear other protective equipment such as eye goggles/face shields.

            Furthermore a mask is primarily defined as a ‘source control’ meaning that its primary role is to control/diminish the amount of aerosol expelled into the air. Diminishing/controlling the amount that you inhale, is a secondary function of the mask.

            Generally those who are masked experience less severe symptoms due to their being exposed to a lower ‘viral load’.

            Other risk factors include crowding, housing, general health, age, etc.

          • 0 avatar
            jkross22

            @Arthur

            “Other risk factors include crowding, housing, general health, age, etc.”

            The ‘general health’ category is the one getting short shrift in discussions like these. It’s a shame CDC or other health organizations aren’t explaining that healthier eating, Vitamin D, exercise and sleep will help build up your general health/immunity to getting sick.

            But then there’s not much profit to be made from a healthier population. Big Broccoli, Big Banana and Big Fiber don’t make big political contributions.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “Big Broccoli, Big Banana and Big Fiber don’t make big political contributions”

            Awesome…post of the week.

          • 0 avatar
            zerofoo

            Here’s a randomized controlled trial of masks that showed little effectiveness in stopping the spread of SARS-CoV-2:

            https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

            All of these types of face coverings are ineffective for protecting you against asbestos exposure. They will not be effective in protecting you against inhaling aerosols that are many times smaller than asbestos fibers.

            Can face coverings protect others if you are exhaling virus droplets? In theory – yes. In actual practice, it does not seem so.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @zerofoo- that’s one study…one…

            What are the findings of MULTIPLE studies????

            I posted a link to one meta-analysis.

            This is from the study you cited:

            “Limitation:
            Inconclusive results, missing data, variable adherence, patient-reported findings on home tests, no blinding, and no assessment of whether masks could decrease disease transmission from mask wearers to others.”

            Look at all the evidence not just what fits your preconceived beliefs.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @jkross22 – if one adjusts for population density

            “If California had Florida’s death rate, roughly 6,000 more Californians would be dead from COVID-19, and tens of thousands of additional patients likely would have landed in already overburdened hospitals. And if Florida had California’s death rate, roughly 3,000 fewer Floridians would be dead from COVID-19.”

            Another factor is relative risk, “About 55% of California residents live in counties with a high “social vulnerability” score — a measure of how severely a disease outbreak might affect a region — while only a quarter of Floridians do. California’s rate of overcrowding in homes, a metric linked to coronavirus spread, is also more than double Florida’s.”

            LA Times “California vs. Florida: Who handled COVID-19 better?”

          • 0 avatar
            jkross22

            @Lou,

            That LA Times article falls apart when the data from local hospitals is included.

            Many of the hospitals that were overrun during COVID’s height were not in the more densely populated areas of LA. They were further outside the city center/West side where there’s more elbow room.

            Population density probably plays a role to a degree, but if it played the most important role, we’d see a higher concentration of deaths in all bigger cities.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @jkross22 – on a re-read, yes you are correct. Other articles seem to indicate that a “Florida” response in California would have been bad.

            In Canada, Alberta which is more conservative and less into lockdowns and mask enforcement, have had a worse response per capita than most provinces. They currently have had the worst 3rd wave and Delta outbreak. They just canceled all restrictions so we’ll see in a few weeks how that works put.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            I figured with a new Administration that “Follows the Science” we’d get a better response. I guess I was wrong.

      • 0 avatar
        EBFlex

        “ why has there been no study comparing mask wearing to non-mask wearing?”

        Because masks simply do not work. And there is hard, indisputable evidence to prove it.

        My state implemented a draconian mask mandate in July of 2020. You’d think you would see a reduction in the number of cases because “masks work”. Unfortunately, cases rose dramatically through August and September with peak being in October and November. There was no evidence in the number of new cases that a mask did anything.

        And this is a very liberal state so the blind sheep here will happily go along with government overreach like it’s normal.

        • 0 avatar
          Luke42

          “blind sheep here will happily go along with government overreach like it’s normal.”

          Wearing a mask is a simple courtesy which takes almost no effort and saves lives.

          If having the government ask for a simple courtesy is government overreach, then the term means nothing. There are real government overreaches for sure, but this isn’t one of them.

          (I was a libertarian, in my younger days — but teamwork is humanity’s superpower, and it’s necessary to save lives in a lot of situations. A little teamwork when it comes vaccination and masks could put COVID onto a history book (where it belongs), in a matter of weeks.)

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            Masks have proven to be effective in limiting SARS-COV-2 spread. There’s plenty of evidence confirming it. There’s very little evidence to the contrary.

      • 0 avatar
        probert

        So wear a mask indoors until facts that you want are known. Not really so hard. But yes masks work, and mainly they work to protect others. With delta infecting more children, who can’t be vaccinated yet, and the fact that vaccinated people can shed the virus, why not just wear a mask indoors. No big deal.

        • 0 avatar

          Sincere question: Why does the CDC in two publications – one on ‘surgical masks’, the other on cloth masks – say that (1) surgical masks, based on 15 RCTs, are “ineffective in stopping the spread of viral infections” (May 2020) and (2)cloth masks “provide a false sense of protection” due to their improper usage by individuals (July 2020)? I have both articles printed out so I’m not making them up. I assume they are still available from the CDC’s site.

          • 0 avatar
            Astigmatism

            I would be curious to see the surgical masks publication you mention, as searching for CDC + that text string doesn’t yield any hits on Google other than your comment here today.

            The “provide a false sense of protection” reference you’re citing appears to be to a WHO guide on mask-wearing. The language you quoted specifically talks about how claims by athletic wear manufacturers that their athletic face masks have anti-microbial performance could give a false sense of security, because the “microbes” they’re talking about are the ones that make sweaty, snotty things smell, not virus particles that cause diseases:

            “Manufacturers sometimes claim their NM masks have antimicrobial performance. Antimicrobial performance may be due to coatings or additives to the fabric fibres. Treated fabrics must not come into direct contact with mucous membranes; the innermost fabric should not be treated with antimicrobial additives, only the outermost
            layer. In addition, antimicrobial fabric standards (e.g., ISO 18184, ISO 20743, AATCC TM100, AATCC 100) are generally slow acting. The inhibition on microbial growth may take full effect after 2- or 24-hour contact time depending on the standard. The standards have generally been used for athletic apparel and substantiate claims of odour control performance. These standards are not appropriate for non-medical cloth masks and may provide a false sense of protection from infectious agents. If claims are maid [sic], manufacturers should specify which standard supports antimicrobial performance, the challenge organism and the contact time.”

  • avatar
    carguy

    While this helped for previous variants, it is unknown if this will be the case for the the much more contagious Delta variant. Expect more employers issuing vaccination or weekly testing mandates.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @carguy – the delta variant has figured out how to get around the body’s immune system. It is still governed by the same physical laws when traveling through air/droplets and surfaces. Masks interfere with ease of air/droplet transmission.

      • 0 avatar
        carguy

        Hey Lou,
        Delta doesn’t have any additional lethality so from an immune system perspective it is very similar to previous variants. Where it is different is in the transmission. I work in healthcare and we have been alarmed at the increasing number of super spreader events where everyone was wearing masks and staying socially distant. There are no firm numbers yet but the effectiveness of masks may be significantly reduced for Delta. It may simply be that the only way forward is not just through one-time vaccination but annual shots much like the flu.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @carguy

          Delta has a greater affinity for binding with ACE2 so that in theory should make it more lethal.

          It replicates exceptionally fast in the respiratory tract. The viral load is 1,000 to 1,200 times higher in the respiratory tract than the original. It is detectable at least 2 days earlier than original SARS-COV-2.

          I’m assuming that the massive viral load must be why it’s more transmissable.

          I’ve read of experts in the field of fine particulate dismantling the 0.3 micron standard for droplet transmission. They believe that droplets aren’t the only way SARS-COV-2 spreads. Airborne is also a risk.
          Eyes or any open moist surface is a risk with SARS-COV-2.

          I hope that one does not need to go to a full HRID (high risk infectious disease) protocol environment for healthcare staff.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      Delta is a new bogeyman. Nothing to fear. Just look at Israeli data. Cases- yes. Deaths – no.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        Deaths are predominantly in unvaccinated people.

        Once again, Your comments are inaccurate and misleading.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          This is what they tell you. What they don’t tell you is that how old those people are. In Italy, average vaccinated death is 85, and unvaccinated – 80. Why in hell healthy 50, 40, 30yo needs this? Children?

          Boston
          Out of the 3,907 breakthrough infections, a total of 71 people died and 268 people were hospitalized.

          This is 2% that died.

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            @slavuta: Get lost troll. You’re links to russian government propaganda sites (RT) prove who you are. Get off the site.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          “In this line of argument, “vaccinated America” has “had enough” of the unvaccinated. “This was the week that vaccinated America started to get really fed up,” says Brian Stelter on CNN. …

          Israel was able to achieve an impressive rollout of vaccinates – and not only to vaccinate much of the adult population, particularly the elderly who were vulnerable to COVID’s first waves, but also to achieve impressive vaccination levels in the military, where 83% were vaccinated by March and there were zero deaths.

          Yet today in the Jewish state, despite all this and without being able to blame the “unvaccinated” – who make up only a small number of people – there is a rise in COVID cases beyond 1,000 a day to even 2,000, which is a lot for such a small country.”

          https://www.jpost.com/opinion/lessons-cautionary-tale-from-israel-on-the-pandemics-next-stage-675465

      • 0 avatar
        Luke42

        @slavuta,
        “Delta is a new bogeyman. Nothing to fear. Just look at Israeli data. Cases- yes. Deaths – no.”

        That’s because most Israelis are vaccinated, and the vaccine makes COVID less dangerous for those with breakthrough infections.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Israeli health official defended so-called booster shots of COVID vaccines as medical companies have been seeking to maximize their profit. During an interview on Sunday, Dr. Sharon Alroy-Preis refuted claims that new COVID cases were driven by unvaccinated people.

          ———
          refuted claims that new COVID cases were driven by unvaccinated people
          ———

          “We are seeing about 50% of the people who are infected right now are vaccinated, fully vaccinated individuals. Previously, we thought that vaccinated, fully vaccinated individuals are protected.”

          ———
          Previously, we thought
          ———-

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            Full transcript… Once again obfuscation by Slobuto

            https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transcript-dr-sharon-alroy-preis-on-face-the-nation-august-1-2021/

            They are talking about delta variant as well as alpha and signs of waining immunity.

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    The holdouts need to get vaccinated already so we can put this kind of crap behind us.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      Agreed. The remainder of the population acts as a petri dish to incubate more SARS-COV-2 and increases the odds of deadlier variants being created. It then increases the risks for the vaccinated and those who can’t be vaccinated.
      It’s like all of us floating in shark infested waters after a shipwreck. The unvaccinated are those without life jackets and not wearing masks is like deliberately bleeding into the water.

      • 0 avatar
        jkross22

        Lou, Do any of the sources you have confirm what you say? Because the data I had seen out of Israel is that the vaccines are 40% effective against Delta.

        Other questions:

        Can an asymptomatic, vaccinated person spread CoV?
        Can someone who has developed the antibodies to CoV as a result of being exposed and was asymptomatic and did not get vaccinated spread CoV?

        Blaming the non-vaccinated for Delta or the other variants that will surely occur is counterproductive. CoV will likely continue to mutate through the entire Greek alphabet. The masking data you referenced provides guidance on what we may need to do for much longer than expected.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @jkross22 – My understanding is that a vaccinated person could be infected and transmit SARS-COV-2 just like a person who’s recovered from COVID-19.

          I’m not sure what the numbers are for vaccines against Delta. IRRC 60-80% depending on the vaccine. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines appear to have the best protection.

          The numbers being touted in the media and even the Governor of Florida stated 95% of hospitalizations are in the unvaccinated . A 5% hospitalization rate of partially to fully vaccinated people for all vaccines with the Delta variant dominant is excellent.

          • 0 avatar
            jkross22

            Here’s the data I’m referring to:

            https://seekingalpha.com/news/3718702-pfizerbiontech-covid-19-shot-is-39-effective-with-prevalence-of-delta-variant-israel-says

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @jkross22 – Thanks for the link.

            Yes, 39% effectiveness at reducing delta variant infection rate but 88-91% reduction in severe symptoms/hospitalization.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            @Lou:

            Bingo. You can still get sick with COVID, but if you’re vaccinated, your chances of getting seriously sick are radically lower. So you stay home sick for a day or two – I’ll take that versus taking my chances on ending up in the ER with a tube down my throat.

    • 0 avatar
      jkross22

      Mocking holdouts won’t persuade. It’s not working.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @jkross22 – agreed. Mocking just cements one’s choices. In some cases education helps. In Canada we found most of the “holdouts” occurred along educational lines which is much easier to address than the US’s highly politicized and polarized environment.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        @jkross: If I sound testy, then sorry, but what SHOULD I say to someone who has no valid reason for holding out but does so anyway? These folks aren’t just hurting themselves – they’re hurting the whole country, and for what? Stubbornness? To prove their “freedom ‘n whiskey” bonafides? You tell me. Meanwhile, the whole country suffers, many get sick, and some die.

        I read a story about a doctor in southwest Missouri who says people are coming to her to get vaccinated but want it kept strictly confidential because their friends and family will give them hell for it. That’s the mentality we’re dealing with. What polite way is there of telling someone like that to wake up? I don’t know of one.

        So, yeah, sorry if I’m coming across as impolite, but I don’t know any other way to react to this kind of literal insanity.

        • 0 avatar
          jkross22

          @ Mike,

          I’ll give you a valid reason:

          Even though my wife and I are vaccinated, she had a severe reaction to the vaccine that made her sick for 6 weeks. She is still feeling some kind of brain fog that she got immediately after the 2nd dose.

          I contacted Moderna several times to report this and get help. I called, emailed and Tweeted. No response from them. It’s been months and still no response.

          Is Moderna run by sociopaths? I would hope not. Are they too disorganized to track these types of reports? Don’t know. What I can say is that we made multiple attempts to report this and get help.

          A similar experience has occurred with a few people in my social circle.

          I didn’t take your response as impolite. I took it as someone who cares about this issue. You’re concerned, as am I. That’s why we got vaccinated. But if the goal is to get people to trust, maybe pharmaceutical companies should respond when an experimental vaccine (which this is) has elicited significant reactions instead of ignoring requests for help.

          Here’s another valid reason:

          The news shutout of the results of using Ivermectin in places like India, Argentina and Egypt. Why did Pierre Kory’s testimony to Congress on this get removed from YouTube as misinformation?

          Ivermectin is now out of patent protection and doesn’t cost much to produce. It has an established safety record. It’s been shown to work as a prophylaxis and treatment for CoV if done early enough. It’s been re-purposed to help treat CoV in other countries.

          Something’s rotten in Denmark.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @jkross22

            Ivermectin for treating COVID-19.

            https://doi.org/10.1002/14651858.CD015017.pub2

            Here is a link to an analysis by the “Cochrane library”. They are an independent medical database.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            @jk:

            Sorry to hear about your wife. I must say, though – it seems like this kind of thing is pretty rare. If we’re going by my “social circle,” aside from my youngest kid, no one I know has had any bad side effects from vaccines, and my kid’s lasted a day or so.

            My girlfriend actually has been running a vaccine clinic for a large hospital here in Denver, and she’s seen maybe a dozen or so bad reactions, out of the tens of thousands of people they’ve treated.

            As far as Ivermectin is concerned, FDA hasn’t approved it to treat or prevent COVID.

            https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19

            And I don’t see any shortages of news stories on it – I Googled it and got returns from the WSJ, Newsweek, and several other MSM outlets.

            If the FDA approved the stuff, it might get more play in the media. In any case, it seems like the stuff could be used to treat people who already have COVID, versus preventing people from getting sick with it. That’s what the vaccines are for.

          • 0 avatar
            PlaysInTraffic

            “Ivermectin is now out of patent protection and doesn’t cost much to produce.”

            And that’s not the only reason Big Pharma had to prevent its use. Emergency Use Authorization may be granted only during a public health emergency and when there are no adequate, approved, and available alternatives.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @PlaysInTraffic

            “Ivermectin”

            How about the fact that it doesn’t work?

            Read my link material.

          • 0 avatar
            PlaysInTraffic

            I did read it. It didn’t say that it doesn’t work. It was inconclusive.

            “Based on the current very low‐ to low‐certainty evidence, we are uncertain about the efficacy and safety of ivermectin used to treat or prevent COVID‐19. The completed studies are small and few are considered high quality. Several studies are underway that may produce clearer answers in review updates. Overall, the reliable evidence available does not support the use ivermectin for treatment or prevention of COVID‐19 outside of well‐designed randomized trials.”

            And of course, no drug company is going to spend the money to do that for something that is cheap to produce and not patent protected.

            But ivermectin does have an established safety record, unlike an experimental shot based on a technology that has never been approved before.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @PlaysInTraffic Every source I looked at says that early evidence indicates little or no benefit and it shouldn’t be used outside of clinical trials.

            “Overall, the reliable evidence available does not support the use ivermectin for treatment or prevention of COVID-19 outside of well-designed randomized trials.”

            That comes up time and time again which tends to indicate it doesn’t work.

            trials.https://www.cochranelibrary.com › f…
            Web results
            Ivermectin for preventing and treating COVID‐19 – Popp, M …

          • 0 avatar
            jkross22

            @Mike and @Lou,

            It might indeed be rare to have side effects. Then again, if the company that produced the drug isn’t following up with people who are trying to report problems, then we have different problem, agreed? And how many people like me are there? Again, don’t know.

            As for FDA approval on using Ivermectin on COVID, it’s not yet approved the Pfizer, AstraZeneca or Moderna for such treatment either. I don’t think we can use FDA approval as a guidepost at this time. I gotta say, though, it doesn’t give me any comfort knowing that the pharma companies have been gifted immunity for any problems with their products. How can any of us feel good about that?

            As for Ivermectin used in other parts of the world, here’s the source I’ve been pinging. Please punch holes in this. I want the best resolution and I don’t really care if it’s Iver, the vaccines, J&J, the forthcoming Novavax, etc.

            https://covid19criticalcare.com/ivermectin-in-covid-19/epidemiologic-analyses-on-covid19-and-ivermectin/

            We all have biases on this topic. My bias is that Fauci, the pharma companies and local and state and federal leaders have sh** the bed in terms of my ability to trust anything they’re yacking on about. No one is willing to say, “I was wrong”. No one. Even though they’ve all screwed the pooch.

            But hey, at least their incompetence, lying and double talk is bipartisan!

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @jkross22 – I see your point. Fortunately for me in BC we haven’t had much in the way of mixed messages. Our Public Health experts have done a good job of avoiding politicization. Even BC’s politicians have shown restraint and not gotten in the way. I’m in healthcare so that helps with access to information.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @jkross22 – I looked at your link. The journal “Frontiers in Pharmacology” pulled a paper from FLCCC Alliance due to questionable sources and methodology. The Scientist has a good write up on it. https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/frontiers-removes-controversial-ivermectin-paper-pre-publication-68505

            McMaster University has a study ongoing with ivermectin, metformin and fluvoxamine on preventing COVID-19 disease progression. They haven’t reported their findings yet.

          • 0 avatar
            jkross22

            @Lou,

            Thanks for that link. Just read it and it raises valid concerns. I really don’t like the over the top hyperbole kory has used. Suspect it’s probably out of frustration, but it subtracts from credibility. As for the trials, they require funding, and no pharma company will pay for that as this drug is out of patent protection. So we’re left with relying on observation, which to use non-scientific jargon…. sucks.

            Frustrating.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @jkross22 – I read up on the McMaster University trial. They said that big drug companies wouldn’t sponsor them. It does appear that the Gates Foundation is a donor. McMaster is looking at cheap alternatives to expensive vaccines to help 3rd world countries.

    • 0 avatar
      SoCalMikester

      or just go ahead and die. less social security going out means it should be around for when i retire

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        …except that one of the folks not drawing social security might be someone you know. Any problem like this is theoretical until it affects you personally, you know?

      • 0 avatar
        golden2husky

        Socal, don’t go there. I get it – it is easy to say the un-vaccinated deserve what they get, and hey, some might say that those deaths can help counter all the voter suppression laws to boot, but no. We lost a family member to covid and because he was not too tech savvy, we had little communication once he was hospitalized. No last conversations, no touch while still alive, no look into the eyes. No anything. Just like the service that followed – all 10 minutes of it before each group got into their car and drove away. Nobody deserves to die in such a dehumanizing way…nobody…

  • avatar
    Lou_BC

    “Employee compliance was also said to be getting lax, making us wonder if workers (or employers) will even bother adhering to masking mandates with any seriousness this late in the game.”

    Umm…that’s a loaded statement and quite simply, if wearing a mask and following set procedures is a requirement of work then the choice is simple, follow the rules or go home. The UAW is already on board so the union won’t protect lax workers.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      The hospital my girlfriend works for has put its’ employees on notice that they have until November to get vaccinated or start looking for another job.

      I really do try to put myself in the shoes of other people, but I literally cannot do so for someone who flips the bird at being vaccinated with no valid medical reason to do so, and that goes double for someone working in a hospital. Basically, it’s like saying, “I’m in medicine but don’t believe in medical science.” I just can’t fathom it. It doesn’t compute.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        COVID 19 vaccination isn’t mandatory for healthcare workers in BC. With that being said, I don’t know of a single professional who hasn’t gotten it. With the flu vaccine we have the option of getting the vaccine or wear a mask.

        Fortunately for us, COVID-19 vaccines and masks haven’t been politicized. We’ve had limited protests with little support. There were weekly mask protests but attendance was low. “Honk if you love freedom” signs never got a toot whenever I was in the area.

      • 0 avatar
        jkross22

        Mike, unless something dramatically changes with why people are vaccine hesitant, hospitals will experience an even more acute nursing shortage than they already are.

        Requiring healthcare workers to be vaccinated makes sense, unless you’re a younger nurse and believe the unknowns and risks with the vaccine are more significant than the known risks of getting Covid.

        Since vaccinated people can spread Covid, does it not make sense to test all hospital employees to prevent them from spreading it to sick patients?

        It’s yet another example of rational thinking not occurring.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          @JK:

          I’m not in health care, but “my circle” includes a current and former girlfriend – the current one is a nurse, the former one worked in HR – and both the hospitals they work at require all employees to get flu shots. In fact, my ex had to send out warning letters to employees who didn’t get flu shots that they needed to get with the program or look for another job.

          My understanding is that this SOP in hospitals. But when it comes to COVID – which is a LOT more dangerous, somehow vaccinations become optional? I’m sorry, that doesn’t compute.

          I get that there are concerns about the vaccine, and yeah, if they were formally FDA approved, there would be less hesitation. But clearly the risk involved in not getting vaccinated is far higher than it is otherwise, particularly for people working in health care.

          Does this explain otherwise reasonable people not getting this taken care of? Maybe. But I think the larger problem is people with different “reasons,” which all seem to be driven by some combination of politics, anger, or just plain stupidity.

      • 0 avatar
        EBFlex

        “ The hospital my girlfriend works for has put its’ employees on notice that they have until November to get vaccinated or start looking for another job.”

        Wow. Clearly this pandemic is super dangerous if you can just fire people for not wanting to be injected with an experimental vaccine.

        Whatever happened to my body my choice?

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          “Whatever happened to my body my choice?”

          Feel free to file a human rights case with the courts.

          And since you want to play the “my body” card then that means any woman can as well when it comes to reproductive rights.

        • 0 avatar
          Luke42

          “Whatever happened to my body my choice?”

          Pregnancy is not a highly transmissible respiratory illness.

          If a woman could get pregnant by breathing, masks would be more important than condoms!

          “Sorry, dear, the baby isn’t yours. I stepped unto the elevator abd, you know, nature took its course.”

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @Luke42 – agreed. A deadly highly transmissable virus isn’t pregnancy.
            I brought up the pregnancy issue because the “right” is typically against “my body, my choice”. It’s hypocritical for EB to play that card.

  • avatar
    EBFlex

    Simply insanity.

    Maybe next Ford can implement mandatory use of dental floss…because thats as effective at stopping covid as the masks.

    As before, it’s all about control. There is no science driving this.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      It will surprise you to hear that Covid isn’t just a disease invented by the Democrats; it’s worldwide.

      And medical professionals of all political stripes in all countries advocate masking in order to reduce droplet velocity and viral load, like stuffing a rag into an exhaust pipe. That’s just science.

      100% efficacy would require spacesuits; masks are a simple way to keep life as normal as possible. Amazing how wearing a mask is suddenly a violation of people’s Constitutional rights – which, by the way, are not unlimited, no matter what Jim Jordan says.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @SCE to AUX – the same arguments have been made against seatbelts, safety gear, and helmets.

        • 0 avatar
          ect

          Lou_BC, I applaud your persistence in trying to put actual facts in front of people who are determined to ignore them because they conflict with their political prejudices.

          At this point, I am more and more ticked off with the knuckledraggers who bleat that they’re more knowledgeable than the doctors and scientists and they’re not going to take simple steps to stop the spread of Covid because it’s that would limit their “freedom” and this Covid thing isn’t really a threat anyway. It’s the same as saying people should be able to smoke in elevators ‘cuz freedom, right?

          Talking to the stupid is futile. It’s going to take mandates. On that note, a friend who’s an executive in a Canadian company told me that the legal advice they’ve received in Canada is that they can’t require employees to be vaccinated. In the US, they’ve been told they can, so they’re going ahead with that requirement in their US offices. As are many other companies.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @ect – thanks. Much appreciated.

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            “Lou_BC, I applaud your persistence in trying to put actual facts in front of people who are determined to ignore them because they conflict with their political prejudices.”

            Plus one on that!

      • 0 avatar
        EBFlex

        “ It will surprise you to hear that Covid isn’t just a disease invented by the Democrats; it’s worldwide.”

        Correct it was invented and released by China with the help of funding from Fauci the Fraud.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      “Simply insanity”

      Yes. That is one way to describe your posts.

      Why don’t you read some scientific papers not found on OAN or Faux.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      Like I said above…I just don’t know what to make of a mentality like this.

      • 0 avatar
        EBFlex

        Not sure why common sense and data interpretation is so foreign to you.

        Again, my state and the moronic lib governor, introduced a mask mandate in July of 2020. Immediately after, case numbers skyrocketed. For months.

        So there are three conclusions to be drawn:

        1. Masks don’t work (obvious)
        2. Masks INCREASE cases.
        3. Widespread masking DID NOT result in any observable drop in cases. Again cases went way up.

        So really the questions are, why is the government so wrong and why don’t people trust the government? If you lie to the people as much as our liberal politicians (and a few GOP’ers) do, when you use fear and control to get people to do things, you lose trust. When you are insanely hypocritical (my body my choice but not when it comes to an experimental vaccine) you lose trust. People that are insane (libs) blindly trust the government. I choose to come to my own conclusions and will do what’s best for me. That’s not a weird concept. It’s normal.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          Yeah… yawn….manure…blah…blah….blah

          I’ve posted several meta-analysis studies on masks.

          Where are yours?

          • 0 avatar
            zerofoo

            Here’s a bunch of infection curves comparing areas with mask mandates and without:

            https://principia-scientific.com/charts-the-masked-up-lockdown-lovers-cant-explain/

            The curves all seem about the same.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @zerofoo – LOL. Seriously? Um, I guess that you probably are.

            Your “charts” weren’t based on any study.

            Look at the meta-analysis that I posted done by the Cochrane Library. They reviewed *ALL* of the studies done and did a data analysis.

            They found that masks worked.

            Unless you post something from a medical and/or scientific journal or data base that is well known you are just wasting my time.

  • avatar
    chuckrs

    @ Lou_BC – you observe that you need to normalize rates per population size. CA doesn’t have 2x the deaths of FL even though it has 2x the population. Actually, you need to normalize based on population age cohorts and I haven’t seen anything like that. Yet. It will come when we are through this, instead of still in it. People over 65 account for 80% of the deaths before vaccination, but they did get second in line after 1st responders and front-line health workers. To have the the same over-65 population percentage as FL, CA would need 2.4 million more oldsters with their much increased susceptibilities. FL – 21% oldsters, CA – 15% oldsters. Not too hard to adjust the likely deaths accordingly. CA “needs” 0.4X times more oldsters than they actually have – who comprise 80% of the deaths – times some fudge factor reduction as oldsters became vaccinated. If you settled on half the oldsters vaccinated as the fudge factor, that would be a 16% increase in deaths in CA – 0.4×0.8×0.5. The LA Times piece is virtue signaling. Stick with the medical pubs you cite, not journalists pandering to their audience. Of course, if you can link a reputable source with deaths per million by age cohorts for each state, I’d be interested.

    I live in FL in a county without any attractions other that relatively low cost of living. 200K population, 34%-35% over 65 (me included) and IIRC, overall 450 deaths, or 0.23% of all residents. Our county coroner has grumbled about that – some of those who passed had one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel already. Excess deaths will tell the story there.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @chuckrs – my bad. I was being lazy. Good points. Excellent rebuttal. These are the kinds of discussions we need to have. I’ll have to look more deeply.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-do-california-and-florida-have-similar-covid-19-case-rates-the-answer-is-complicated

        This article seems to point out that there are too many variables in play to make meaningful comparisons.

      • 0 avatar
        chuckrs

        No worries. I plan on reading some medical articles you linked the weekend.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @chuckrs – pubmed and the cochrane library database are good sources of information. Cochrane is great because they analyze multiple studies and publish reports.

    • 0 avatar
      bunkie

      Just as a point of observation, mask wearing is back with about 30-35% of the people I see in public places here in Sarasota. It appears to be increasing every day. A lot of folks here are frightened by the delta variant. My wife and I have gone back to wearing masks despite having been vaccinated since March.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        NYPOST:
        Doctor says: Stop the panic over the Delta variant

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @bunkie – there are experts who want to re-impliment mask wearing due to the increased infection rate of the Delta variant. Even without medical warnings, I still see large numbers of people wearing masks in public. At least 2/3 of people I see in public still wear masks even before “delta”

          @slabuto – A surgeon who advised the last president feels that “we” should not fear the delta variant.

          I’d normally just LOL the bullsh!t you come up with but since your advice can kill people, REAL DOCTORS ARE WORRIED.

          Once again, you make Putin proud!

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            BS Lou.
            you should go into the dark room and stay there. Sunlight is harmful.
            You telling me all these usual Putin BS while reality is this – US government funded creation of this virus and now they tell me to shoot myself with toxic vaccine. Or the one that causes blood clots and other issues. You know what, I am not a medical advisor to anyone, like you are. I just don’t see the reason to vaccinate for this virus. All my friends got sick with this and even those with certain issues had no problems. I partied with them, stayed in tight rooms with them and I never felt ill.
            If “real” doctors are worried than my doctor is not real. He wasn’t worried at all that I am not vaccinated. My brother is working in this field and is not hurrying to vaccinate.

            Keep fearing things and make other fear. That going to work well, I am sure.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “US government funded creation of this virus and now they tell me to shoot myself with toxic vaccine.”

            Um…the cheeto-in-chief was in power before and after COVID-19 hit. You saying that the orange moron funded all of this?

            The sputnik vaccine is available. You don’t trust mother Russia and Papa Putin?

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            BS Lou

            why orange guy bothering you so much? You have your dictator-in-charge Trudeau to cry about. He wants to be like Xi. Perfect. Nice to watch Canadian Gulag. What a loser https://youtu.be/8bGVNPw9R8o

            Our demented moron will be taken out by his buddies soon. The only reason they had not done it yet is because they hate the Camel lady even more.

            Pseudo scientist Faucci was told not to do these experiments. But he broke the ordinance. Hopefully, he will be in jail for it one day. Murderer https://youtu.be/Kh3twYon8pc

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Sputnik… you can have it with a trip to San Marino
            https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/san-marino-vaccine-tourism-sputnik-v-b1858950.html

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          slavuta,

          “Doctor says: Stop the panic over the Delta variant”

          But, panic is the whole purpose. Our government spent good money funding gain of function research. Do you want that money to go to waste? What about the healthy witch hunt mentality of the whole thing?

          Besides, it seems to me that the people best equipped to come up with the cure are the ones who came up with the malady. I mean, wouldn’t they know all about it?

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @Old_WRX – please explain “gain of function research”

            Any evidence that SARS-COV-2 was man made?

            I won’t wait for your answer………

            “An article published in Nature Medicine in March 2020 said that the virus likely originated through “natural selection in an animal host before zoonotic transfer,” or “natural selection in humans following zoonotic transfer.” The researchers, who analyzed genomic data, said SARS-CoV-2 “is not a laboratory construct or a purposefully manipulated virus.” While they said an accidental laboratory release of the naturally occurring virus can’t be ruled out, they said they “do not believe that any type of laboratory-based scenario is plausible.””

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Old_WRX,

            You mean Chinese military?

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Old_WRX

            Remember, when Trump was president, CDC guidance was to write every death as covid if it tested positive. Guess what, now CDC say opposite
            https://youtu.be/r7GJHUh4Nto?t=622

  • avatar

    Never Mask, Never Vax!

  • avatar

    Well informed sources report that vaccination is just the first step in taking over your souls. Aliens are preparing Earth for the takeover and the Global Big Government knows that and helps them. How else you can explain that US intelligence community suddenly releases UFO report – the subject they denied and kept secret for 70 years? Aliens are real, they are here and they gradually took over all our major institutions. And now they are reprogramming human population for the final reset and takeover of our planet. Avoid vaccination and join Earth Liberation Army!

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      Illegal aliens, if you ask some people.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        I find it ironic that space aliens are mentioned. This dud like the past president must have a thing for aliens (space or illegal)

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        Think about how Mexican Texas became Republic of Texas.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          Through vaccine mediated mind control by space aliens?

          You two must have been partially exposed to novichok.

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            I’m still not happy about the magnetization thing not being real. I was ready to sneak in for extra doses for that one. It would be so useful. If the aliens are controlling my mind, what are they going to make me do and why wouldn’t they just do it themselves whatever it is?

          • 0 avatar

            Jokes you are making here are inappropriate. Aliens are real and survival of human race is at stake.

            Sir Arthur Clarke predicted the situation we are facing today in his famous 1953 novel “Childhood’s End”. As we all know Arthur Clarke’s predictions have (mostly) come true (or will very soon!).

            “In the near future, enormous silver spaceships appear without warning over mankind’s largest cities. They belong to the Overlords, an alien race far superior to humanity in technological development. Their purpose is to dominate Earth. Their demands, however, are surprisingly benevolent: end war, poverty, and cruelty. Their presence, rather than signaling the end of humanity, ushers in a golden age . . . or so it seems.”

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            Looks like @Inside Looking Out has TTAC confused with Comic-Con.

          • 0 avatar

            Lui from BC, do you have any idea who Arthur Clarke is?

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            Aurthur Clarke wrote 2001: A Space Odyssey.

            So… what’s your point?

            If all you got is predictions from a science fiction writer then.. well… STFU.

          • 0 avatar

            Do you think he has anything to do with Comic-Con? I take any of his predictions very seriously. Civilizational fatigue is real.

  • avatar
    Felix Hoenikker

    I refer to the vaccine hesitant as “the Darwin Club” although they generally hate the concept of evolution.

  • avatar
    Master Baiter

    I got vaccinated, but I’m not going to hate on people who choose not to.

    People engage in all kinds of risky activities that could get them killed, like riding motorcycles, skydiving, flying small planes, taking Fentanyl, etc. It’s none of my business.

    I never hear anyone comparing the risks of Delta variant (by age) to the risks of other things we do every day, or to the risks of the regular annual flu of years past.

    WRT to blindly following the recommendations of three-letter government agencies, or large news organizations funded by drug companies, people have cause to be skeptical.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      The Fox and Friends defence.

      Do you skydive into crowds?

      What you list isn’t contagious.
      I didn’t get into motorcycle riding because I was in contact with an infected rider.

      A virus only cares about replication. The unvaccinated becomes a breeding ground for more viruses and mutations. That puts everyone at risk.

      • 0 avatar
        Master Baiter

        @Lou_BC

        “That puts everyone at risk.”

        Prove to me that the risk to you, a vaccinated person, is sufficiently high to justify trampling the rights of those who want to make their own medical decisions.

        And plenty of risks to me come from others in society. Someone could have given me the ordinary flu at any point in my life and killed me. Perhaps that could have been avoided if that person had gotten a flu shot. So what? Are going to mandate flu shots for everyone now?

        But I shouldn’t expect a Canadian to understand the concept of liberty.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @Master Baiter.

          LOL

          Where did I say the unvaccinated should be forced against their will to get vaccinated?

          You used a lame argument that was used on Fox and Friends.

          On the subject of truly understanding liberty, I’m betting that it will become mandatory in the USA before Canada….

          Oh…

          wait….

          it has.

          @freedmike’s girlfriend is a nurse and it’s become mandatory at that facility.

          Yup…your an expert on liberty.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @Masterbaiter – Pursuant to that “liberty” comment.

          “Talking to the stupid is futile. It’s going to take mandates. On that note, a friend who’s an executive in a Canadian company told me that the legal advice they’ve received in Canada is that they can’t require employees to be vaccinated. In the US, they’ve been told they can, so they’re going ahead with that requirement in their US offices. As are many other companies.”

          It appears that Canada does understand liberty after all.

        • 0 avatar
          mcs

          ” trampling the rights of those who want to make their own medical decisions.”

          Like the guy cooking your burger in the kitchen at your favorite restaurant that decides soap and water on his hands after taking a dump is detrimental to his health. Don’t want to trample on his medical rights.

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    Most interesting thing I’ve seen (by far) on masking is this slide (page 20) from the CDC [two days ago]:
    https://context-cdn.washingtonpost.com/notes/prod/default/documents/8a726408-07bd-46bd-a945-3af0ae2f3c37/note/57c98604-3b54-44f0-8b44-b148d8f75165.#page=20

    Some of you will be smart enough to read the graphs [I’m not]. Notice how mask ‘effectiveness’ varies (dramatically) with R0 and percentage vaccinated. Also note the breakdown by ‘no masking’ ‘masks unvaccinated only’ and ‘all masking’ (potentially explains a *lot* about the guidance and changes in guidance).

    If you happen to scan through the rest of the deck,
    • VE = vaccine effectiveness
    • CI = confidence interval
    • LTCF = long-term care facility
    • Ct = cycle threshold
    • aOR = adjusted odds ratio
    • HCP = health care professionals
    • NPIs = nonpharmaceutical interventions

    If your time is limited, also hit slide 22.

  • avatar
    kc27

    EBFlex mentioned “As before, it’s all about control.” Citizens were “controlled” to wear masks during the 1918 pandemic. The pandemic ended and so did the control over the use of masks. I was born in the late 1950s, and never was instructed to wear a mask until 2020 pandemic. What are the ramifications of “control” beyond managing public health?

  • avatar
    zerofoo

    Here’s a study showing mask mandates reduce risk 2% after 100 days.

    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e3.htm

    If condoms were only 2% effective at reducing pregnancy risk you probably wouldn’t bother.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @zerofoo – I take it you don’t understand how daily compounded interest on a credit card works?

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      I take it you did not read the report.

      “Daily case and death growth rates”

      2% was daily.

      That’s the problem with the majority of anti-mask or anti-vac arguments. They fixate on what they believe confirms/reaffirms their beliefs. The big picture is this, “Masks work and vaccines work (at least the main Western one’s).
      The whole freedom/liberty argument can be viewed as sound BUT only if it comes from the realm of ACCURATE informed consent.

      Would you seek medical advice on brain surgery or epidemiology from an ophthalmologist?

  • avatar
    Greg Hamilton

    Science vs. Lysenkoism
    Here is a short article
    http://www.softpanorama.org/Skeptics/lysenkoism.shtml
    Who is Trofim Lysenko
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trofim_Lysenko

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      Bravo!

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @slabuto – I kinda think that was aimed at you!

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          rrrrright

          “Lysenkoism presuppose tight but implicit control of scientific press and media in general, as well funding research. Full control is achieved by appointment adherents of the particular cult to the key positions in universities. It practice ruthless elimination of even slightest dissent…”

          “As a form of politization of science, Lysenkoism relied on the oppressive power of the state.”

          “With the level of control of MSM achieved in neoliberal societies in late XX century, the mere control of the MSM can produce the effect almost as powerful as the enforcement of social “taboo” on ideas.”

          Get life

  • avatar
    56BelAire

    Wow Matt.

    A first glance I thought with 122 comments we had a good article/discussion here, but alas 90% of the comments are from the usual handful of “triggered and unhinged” resident know-it-all lefties. The one obnoxious dude has been riveted on this article for 2 full days…probably 30+ comments.

    You wonder why I am no longer here. The glory days of Farago and Schmidtt were the best days of TTAC, and are long gone….all downhill since. Is there a “Death Watch” yet?

    • 0 avatar
      mcs

      you mean ““triggered and unhinged” resident know-it-all right wingers. They aren’t left.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @56BelAire – LOL. Poor baby.

      Triggered?
      Nope.
      You quoting Donny Junior’s book?

      “Unhinged”
      Is that a Donny Junior book too?
      Posting facts is unhinged?

      “know-it-all”
      I know how to access medical information. Oh and I’m a licensed healthcare professional.

      “obnoxious”
      Don’t like the truth?
      You can’t handle the truth?

      “You wonder why I am no longer here.”

      Nope. Zero. Zip. Nada.

  • avatar
    zach

    That’s why I left in the first place, the Canadian bully. Yuk, had my fill of them when I worked in food service, cheap as hell.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      Telling the truth about masks and vaccines is bullying?

      “Bullying – seek to harm, intimidate, or coerce”

      And “they” referred to those on the left as “snowflakes”

  • avatar
    zach

    Bully American citizens, ignore the border. There wouldn’t be a Democrat party without division. Absolute bullies and tyrants.

  • avatar
    el scotto

    I can see it getting to the point that ALL federal employees have to get vaccinated or tested on a weekly basis. After a few tests, I would think that the anti-vaxxers would willingly get vaccinated. But wait, there’s more! I’m sure the tin foil hat crowd would insist that government is secretly inserting mind control chips during Covid testing.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      No, some people just don’t rush into experimental medications, which we were told by our current leaders and MS media, were not to be trusted because they were developed under Trump’s administration. https://youtu.be/CrKEZwwh-eM

      • 0 avatar
        mcs

        “because they were developed under Trump’s administration”

        Actually, they were not developed under the trump administration. mRNA vaccines have been under development and testing has been in progress since the early 1990’s. Under development and tested for 30 years.

        https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      “mind control chips”

      Um.. well.. @Inside Looking Out has floated the “chip” and “nano-bot” injected with vaccine conspiracy theory.
      He’s now selling mass mind control by space aliens conspiracy theory.

  • avatar
    Art Vandelay

    So many fncking cheese d!cks in this thread.

    Anyway, I hope the current group of sh!+heads in office are held to the same standard as the last group of sh!+heads.

    So far we’ve gotten a plan that seemed to hope for the best and rely on idiots to practice sound logic. This is frankly no better than the last dude’s plan.

    Guess I’ll work through this shutdown too. Hopefully it is equally lucrative

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