By on April 15, 2017

2016_nissan_leaf_12

How do you keep a very long-in-the-tooth model alive when competitors have bypassed it in terms of technology and practicality? Offer sweet deals, obviously.

Nissan’s venerable Leaf, which saw its first U.S. sales in late 2010 and still hasn’t confirmed a North American successor, needs all the help it can get. Not only are electric cars a tough sell in America, but the Leaf faces a growing crop of rivals that top its paltry driving range by roughly 2:1.

Nissan wants to know: would you feel differently if it was much, much cheaper?

Crazy deals and the Leaf seem to go hand in hand. For a couple of years now, we’ve covered stories of customers in certain jurisdictions combining incentives in order to walk away with a new electric car for the price of a used Hyundai.

In the meantime, Nissan has done its part to keep the Leaf viable by slashing the MSRP and, more recently, offering more range. For 2016, Nissan added the option of a larger battery, boosting the model’s potential range from 84 miles to a slightly more palatable 107. This year, it dropped the lesser battery altogether.

Still, a Chevrolet Bolt will take you 238 miles on a charge, and the Tesla Model 3 — which starts limited production this summer before ramping up in the fall — promises about 215.

With this in mind, Nissan has partnered with a major electricity provider to slash the cost of a new Leaf. TTAC’s Bozi Tatarevic came across the deal, which offers Duke Energy customers an extra $10,000 off the MSRP of a 2016 or 2017 model year Leaf. That’s on top of a federal tax credit worth up to $7,500.

Unlike some past deals, there’s no chance of combining this offer with special incentives from the manufacturer.

Still, the combination of Duke Energy customer incentive and federal tax credit shaves $17,500 off the $31,545 MSRP (including destination) of a base Leaf S, bringing the cost to just over $14,000. If there’s a marked-down 2016 model kicking around, expect to pay even less. Because of the Duke Energy tie-in, the offer is only good in six U.S. states: Florida, South and North Carolina, Indiana, Kentucky, and Ohio. The deal runs until the end of June.

Despite its age and increasing technological obsolescence, the Leaf still doesn’t have a confirmed replacement in the United States. While the automaker has mentioned a second-generation model with 200-plus miles of range, the timing — and likelihood — of its arrival in the U.S. remains hazy.

And yet, the Leaf soldiers on. Last year’s steep sales slide eventually leveled out and, to its credit, the model has seen monthly year-over-year improvements in sales from last September onwards. The company knows, however, that saving big piles of green is a big incentive to going green.

[Image: Nissan]

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88 Comments on “As It Awaits a Replacement, Nissan’s Fastest-Depreciating Model Sweetens the Pot...”


  • avatar
    whitworth

    I love the irony of a coal power plant utility company (Duke Energy) offering incentives for people to buy electric cars to charge up with.

    Tell me again how electric cars are going to fix everything.

    • 0 avatar
      mcs

      @whitworth: I love the irony of a coal power plant utility

      Their coal plants are in the minority. I think they have twice as many hydro plants as they do coal.

      • 0 avatar
        whitworth

        1% of the electricity they generate is from hydropower and solar.

        http://sustainabilityreport.duke-energy.com/pdfs/15-duke-sr-at-a-glance.pdf

        36% Coal
        34% Nuclear
        29% Natural Gas/Fuel Oil
        1% Hydro and Solar

        Might want to have some evidence before you make claims like that.

        • 0 avatar
          mcs

          I said number of plants, got it! If you take a look at your own numbers, 64% percent of their power is still non-coal. That’s what the word “minority” means.

          Might want to have some evidence before you make claims and read your own numbers.

          • 0 avatar
            whitworth

            # of plants is a meaningless number, and you know it.

            More electricity from Duke is produced from coal than any other. Thus my label.

            But keep making a big deal about the 1% of hydroelectric production.

          • 0 avatar
            jacob_coulter

            MCS,

            Clearly you’re just changing the goalposts here and purposely trying to confuse people.

            I thought it was well known Duke was one of the largest coal utilities in the country. Trying to pretend otherwise and that they are really more of a hydroelectric plant sounds like something from Duke’s public relations department.

        • 0 avatar
          healthy skeptic

          @whitworth

          mcs may have been wrong about the hydro, but he was right about coal being in the minority. Your original post made it sound like Duke is 100% coal.

          Their mix looks slightly greener than US as a whole, because of high percentage of nuclear.

          • 0 avatar
            whitworth

            So “coal is in the minority” even though it’s the number one source of electricity production for Duke?

            I stand by my assertion of Duke being a coal utility, just like Exxon is an “oil company” even though they have other sources of revenue.

          • 0 avatar
            healthy skeptic

            Yes, 36% is a minority share in my book. It may be the biggest slice by a little bit, but still a minority. Duke doesn’t have a majority of anything. Their mix looks pretty diversified, as is the U.S. grid in general.

            You could say that they’re majority fossil fuels. I’ll buy that.

            In any case, unless you’re getting all of your power from old coal plants, EVs are a net win for the environment. A Duke-powered EVs slash emissions, I’m guessing by about 50% over their gas counterparts.

    • 0 avatar
      Accuracy

      1. Only 15 out of 92 power plants run by Duke Energy are coal fired.

      2. Coal-fired plants don’t depend on foreign oil.

      I could go on, but these two facts alone solve a lot of problems.

      • 0 avatar
        whitworth

        You’re purposely trying to deceive with figures that are meaningless like “number of plants”.

        It’s like saying there are millions of more solar “power plants” because your counting panels on top of people’s roofs, even though it makes up less than 1% of actual electricity generated.

        The overwhelming majority of Duke Energy’s electricity production is from fossil fuels.

        You’re either being willfully ignorant or want to fool people.

      • 0 avatar
        deanst

        Your first point argues that it is a good thing that few plants are coal, and your second point argues that coal plants are good – not much consistency to that argument.

      • 0 avatar
        dartman

        #2 – The U.S. doesn’t “depend on” foreign oil. No U.S. power plants of any type “depend on” foreign oil. Foreign oil, like many products, at times, can be cheaper to import than produce in the U.S.

        Americans like low prices.

        • 0 avatar
          Carlson Fan

          “Less than 1% of all electricity generated comes from oil,”

          And most of that is probably in Hawaii although they are trying to move towards renewable energies.

        • 0 avatar
          4drSedan

          Maybe I’m naive (and I’ve experienced firsthand a couple of the conflicts in the Middle East) but wouldn’t it make more sense to use up other countries’ oil before our own?

      • 0 avatar
        APaGttH

        …2. Coal-fired plants don’t depend on foreign oil…

        As someone who interned at PSNH while in college, admitted a lifetime ago.

        What, the absolute f…. are you trying to prove with this statement.

        According to the Institute of Energy Research (meh, what do they know) less than 1% of electricity generated in the United States comes from oil.

        http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/topics/encyclopedia/petroleum/

        According to the Shift Project Data Portal, as of 2014, the amount of electricity generated by oil in the United States is less than 1%.

        http://www.tsp-data-portal.org/Breakdown-of-Electricity-Generation-by-Energy-Source#tspQvChart

        The energy industry moved away from oil for as a source for power plants decades ago, and it never was a significant source.

        I worked at the Newington Station when it burned oil in the 1980s in project management. Compared to any other plant I was in, it was crazy clean. Even during the late 80s when oil was insanely cheap, they would frequently shut down the plant and buy electricity out of NERPOOL because it was cheaper.

        Coal is now in the same situation. Natural gas has become so cheap, that PSNH would shut down their flagship power plant at Bow (coal with 4 reserve gas turbine generators – basically nothing more than glorified jet engines).

        http://www.unionleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120508/NEWS05/705089931/1001

        I don’t know what talking points you’re trying to push in a discussion on electrical generation and then bringing up dangerous, awful, evil FOREIGN OIL!!!

        Less than 1% of all electricity generated comes from oil, the United States is the largest oil producing nation in the world, our second biggest trade partner for oil is Canada (and it isn’t even close) with Mexico moving between 4th and 6th place month to month. Less than 24% of our imported oil (not all oil, 24% of imported oil) comes from OPEC nations, and not all OPEC nations want us destroyed (Angola for example).

        Unless the Trump Administration guts programs created by the Bush Administration in 2005 and 2007, and implemented by the Obama Administration, we can be continental dependent for oil by 2020. Meaning that Canada and Mexico could meet our import needs on their own. We don’t have to do anything else but execute the plan as it stood in 2016.

        And if the Obama Administration was so bad for oil production (I never voted for the guy for the record) then how on earth did we become the largest oil producing nation in the world under his watch, become a net exporter of energy products as of 2011, and have had petroleum products be our nation’s largest export in terms of actual dollars, since 2012.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          APaGttH, you wrote an excellent comment but you also have to keep in mind that Trump is just a temporary figment of the left’s imaginary nightmare.

          EOs last only for the duration of term(s) in office and Trump is fighting the ‘crats, the GOP AND the Fake News Media, so the guy is not going to be able to accomplish anything of lasting consequence. No one on the Hill is going to help him.

          Even his Base is rumbling about Trump’s pivot away from populist Nationalist causes toward foreign interventions.

          Trump may not be able to help that because of events in the Real World, but his Base elected him because of the promises he made to them.

          If he can’t keep his promises, Trump is toast in 2020, and the ‘crats will regain control of the Hill in 2018.

          • 0 avatar
            APaGttH

            The only ways Trump isn’t a two term President is:

            1) Impeachment
            2) He says “I’m bored, I quit”
            3) He croaks (old age)
            4) Nuclear war and there is no more world for an election

            That’s about it.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            APaGttH.

            Wow!

            I never thought Trump would be elected barring a divine intervention. So the divine intervention happened. And we were all surprised.

            But I don’t see Trump getting re-elected unless he can keep those promises to the people who voted for him; a lot of them were the forgotten and left-behind ‘crats.

            IMO, repeal & replace is down and out because of the GOP infighting. And rewriting the tax code requires more than a simple majority to get to his desk, and that will never happen.

            So I’m of the mind that those who are impressed by what Trump has been able to “temporarily” accomplish through EOs, had better enjoy it while it lasts.

            The GOP ‘majority-rules’ may be over as soon as Nov 2018.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I’m leaning toward “I’m bored, I quit” in year six.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            That certainly would give Pence an opportunity to ease into the job and still run twice after those two years.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Its to throw Pence (or someone else) under the bus in those two years and set up a non-Republican successor to ensure his legacy as the “new Reagan”. Then after his death, Kushner, er Ivanka, becomes the first female President and she borrows from this legacy.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            28-Cars-Later, I never thought about that.

            Hell, I hope to still be alive if that happens.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            The President, as I see it, is trying to create a political dynasty. He knows economically things are dire and there is only so much he can do about it. Therefore he slowly puts policies into effect which appear to help, gets kudos, and quits while he is ahead (playing Patton only helps him to this end). Then with his VP in charge, the sh*t hits the fan, but his former VP won’t be quick to blame him since he was also on the ticket. This person (Pence or other) is defeated by a Mexican because the People’s Democratic Party of Amerika is anti-white and their core leadership will also be nearing 80 so they won’t be able to pull from the current crop of traitors. Hillarity is already dead in my opinion (stroked out on 9/11 and they have been using a lookalike) and while they may think Chelsea in 2028, like her mother she is completely unqualified for anything in 2024. This Mexican promptly f****s things up further opening up a path for likely Mossad agent Kushner/Ivanka in 2028 and a Trump dynasty mirroring the Bush one. We are so f***ed.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            28-Cars-Later,

            Trump is a different kinda guy who is used to calling his own shots. His style is kinda like the old “Management by Objective” method.

            When Trump got elected, a lot of people also thought, “were so f.cked!” but so far there has been no harm done except that the lefties are walking around like zombies, the walking dead, with their minds blown.

            The scenario you presented could very well happen, but at the same time, a lot of other scenarios could also unwind: many of them unforeseen or unplanned.

            Where are Susan Rice and Ben Rhodes when you need them?

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      Well, fellas, I, for one, am happy to see that coal shipments to the still-existing NM coal-fired power plants have resumed and even increased, since……….Trump.

      Through whatever convoluted logic we, the customers, may be forced to pay for the largely-idle solar and wind farms that dot the landscape in NM, or whose output ties in to the Texas grid, at least the coal-fired plants are well-used and provide ready, steady and dependable electricity.

      At least for the duration of…………Trump.

      • 0 avatar
        dartman

        Actually PNM says its plans to shut down/reduce the coal fired plants is still on track:
        http://krqe.com/2017/03/29/new-mexico-utility-on-track-with-plans-for-coal-fired-plant/
        PNM like all utilities knows that cheaper/cleaner massively available natural gas is a better carbon fuel to run power plants, now and in the future. The speed of conversion is a financial calculation based on many factors including available capital and existing supply contracts.
        A combination of solar, wind, batteries and natural gas is the future.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          I agree on natural gas, solar is iffy, but from what I understand wind isn’t sufficiently scalable and I don’t see batteries as a thing unless the technology rapidly improves.

          • 0 avatar
            dartman

            1. The sun doesn’t always shine: 2. the wind doesn’t always blow; 3. batteries just store energy, not produce it. When 1. 2. and 3. aren’t enough- turn on the gas…

          • 0 avatar
            golden2husky

            I never got the use of batteries in large scale operations. Some are looking to them to trim peak load, but I think there are better ways. We actually shed the load in our buildings to meet demand reduction goals, and we get a handsome check for doing so. To prepare for the reduction we pre-cool our buildings to help skate over the reduction period. Not a green technique as we use a bit more to do so than we offset, but the increase is out of the peak period. But demand reduction is not a green program. It simply allows the utility to manage the loads without increasing the capacity of the grid. So the check they write is a cost saver for them.

            Coal is yesterday’s fuel so its no surprise it is being pushed by a president who looks the the past to solve problems instead of the future. It is dangerous to mine, it causes health problems to miners, it destroys the local environment, and it is the dirtiest fuel there is even using the cleanest coal combustion process we have. Smart miners will not allow their kids to follow in their footsteps. The near future of our energy picture will be nuclear, natural gas, hydro, and a mix of renewables.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          dartman, that’s why I wrote “still existing”.

          Those coal-fired plants have to be replaced eventually because they are older than dirt. But the last administration sped up the timetable with their anti-coal mandates.

          I hope they can keep them running for a long while yet, now that Trump has made coal fashionable again.

          It’s a resource that we have a lot of, so we should utilize it.

          Ironic to think that at Aztec and other wells they were flaring off natgas for decades.

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            @highdesertcat:

            My wells are in the Hobbs NM area and I’ve been making good money from the natural gas. These other guys must be crazy if they’re burning it off. Maybe they don’t have pipeline access?

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            mcs, this has been going for decades so my guess is they didn’t have access to a natgas transport pipeline.

            Way back in the mid-nineties, as we were driving back from Formula V races in Grand Junction at night, we could see the flares from miles away.

            Aztec was always our pitstop on the way home. And those flares were always a welcome sight.

      • 0 avatar
        APaGttH

        Coal is more expensive to burn for power generation per BTU than natural gas.

        It is very unlikely given the massive natural gas reserves we have a nation that will change in our lifetime, or our children’s lifetime.

        The defending of the coal industry is like defending the whale oil industry for automatic transmission fluid, or the rotary phone industry, or if somehow if we bring back Blockbuster Video, we’ll make America great again.

        I’m sure the pewtersmiths were very upset about cheap industrial grade ceramics – who cares that pewter slowly poisons you, we need to maketh America greatheth again!

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          “Coal is more expensive to burn for power generation per BTU than natural gas.”

          True, now that natgas has become the fuel of choice. But it wasn’t always that way.

          We could have used natgas instead of coal in the past, but coal was the overwhelming choice as a fuel through the ages.

          Eventually, we, as a nation, can transition from coal to natgas, but let’s not hurry it. Coal has served us long and coal has served us well.

          Coal and oil got America to where we’re at today.

    • 0 avatar
      Carlson Fan

      “Tell me again how electric cars are going to fix everything.”

      Just to refine one gallon of gas it takes about 7kW of electricity. So before you’ve even started your Model T up and left the driveway my Volt has traveled close to 30 miles if I’m in EV mode.

      Never forget that your ICE vehicle is just as dependent on coal fired power plants as any EV. It would be interesting to get the number of how many power plants it takes every day in the US just to provide the electricity alone to refine petroleum.

      • 0 avatar
        bryanska

        Plus, all sorts of engineering principles point to electric cars being a damn good system.

        Why have distributed generation of ICE only power, when you can power cars with whatever source of energy you wish?

  • avatar
    mcs

    “the timing — and likelihood — of its arrival in the U.S. remains hazy.”

    There are plenty of spy shots showing up on the internet. I think there’s one set with Michigan plates. It’s coming to the U.S., that’s for sure. Probably will be announced in the Fall with Fall deliveries.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      Nothing sadder than a guy standing next to his Leaf on the side of the road, holding an electrical cord to plug in to the nearest electrical outlet.

      I saw that in a commercial on TV.

      • 0 avatar
        zipster

        Desert:

        Since you are retired and not much else to do, why don’t you seek that long evaded college diploma? Perhaps if you took some science courses and maybe a little history your extreme views might moderate.

        • 0 avatar
          OldManPants

          “why don’t you seek that long evaded college diploma?”

          Yeah! Yeah!

          Co-Ed upskirts, dude!

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          “college diploma”

          The cost these days is a bit steep for something worth $19.95 if you order in the next thirty minutes.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            28-Cars-Later, that’s not true, and you know it.

            With a little forethought a person can pick the right college degree for them and be gainfully employed (if they want to be) for the rest of their lives.

            Any of the Bachelor of Science Engineering degrees, or Computer Science are still very much in demand.

            But not enough Americans choose those disciplines. That’s why we have to import qualified people from Asia under H1B.

            But for a Graduate Degree> I would advise an MBA or MPA. Those are the Degrees that hire all the other degrees in the real world.

            Seriously.

          • 0 avatar
            Carlson Fan

            “college diploma”

            The cost these days is a bit steep for something worth $19.95 if you order in the next thirty minutes.

            We’ll sure if you major in “Gender Studies” or some other worthless BA degree. Like HDC suggested get a BS in an Engineering discipline so you can get a job that allows you to move out of your parents basement once you graduate.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          zipster, I earned an MBA in the eighties, while still on active duty with the USAF.

          Got me where I’m at today because it taught me how to make money the old fashioned way, by earning it.

          Since I retired end of 2015 from the working class and was promoted to the leisure class, we spend a lot of time traveling.

          Next destination, Vancouver, BC, Canada, for the Summer.

          (I guess you saw that commercial, too.)

        • 0 avatar

          There is no need to belittle someone’s views as extreme and assume they are less educated than you simply because you disagree.

  • avatar
    jacob_coulter

    MCS,

    Clearly you’re just changing the goalposts here and purposely trying to confuse people.

    I thought it was well known Duke was one of the largest coal utilities in the country. Trying to pretend otherwise and that they are really more of a hydroelectric plant sounds like something from Duke’s public relations department.

  • avatar
    stingray65

    Taxpayers help wealthy people buy electric cars with the various government EV tax credits, but who is paying the $10,000 Duke Energy EV rebate? Since corporations don’t pay anything, it is mostly likely going to be paid through higher rates for Duke’s electricity customers, many of whom currently struggle to pay their current power bills. Considering that Duke uses fossil fuels for most of its power generation, this rich people’s subsidy will likely result in no emission reduction according to the Union of Concerned Scientists (see link).

    http://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles/electric-vehicles/emissions-and-charging-costs-electric-cars

  • avatar
    Tandoor

    Since we’re going to complain about subsidies for the rich, and as long as we’re calling tax credits subsidies, let’s not forget that the oil, gas, and coal industries split about 3 billion dollars a year. Another 5 billion goes for corn ethanol production. So you don’t have to feel left out.

    • 0 avatar
      ToddAtlasF1

      Just think of the good we could do by ending the ethanol mandate.

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      The subsidies goes far beyond that. Oil and drilling rights on public lands are sold by the government for pennies on the dollar compared to fair market value. That’s why the industry wants access to the land, much cheaper to rip off the taxpayers (umm, we are the government after all) than pay a honest rate to a private landholder.

      • 0 avatar
        stingray65

        Subsidies for energy are tiny for fossil fuels on a per KWh basis (see link). Furthermore, a substantial portion of these subsidies are things like tax exemptions for fuel used by farmers, subsidy programs to help the poor heat their homes during the winter, filling up the national petroleum reserve, and normal depreciation expenses that all businesses receive (see second link). Meanwhile virtually all the renewable subsidies go to wealthy investors as direct subsidies, which hopefully will be greatly reduced very soon.

        http://environmentblog.ncpa.org/which-energy-source-receives-the-largest-subsidy/

        https://www.forbes.com/sites/energysource/2012/04/25/the-surprising-reason-that-oil-subsidies-persist-even-liberals-love-them/#7761b6393279

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    “Still, the combination of Duke Energy customer incentive and federal tax credit shaves $17,500 off the $31,545 MSRP (including destination) of a base Leaf S, bringing the cost to just over $14,000.”

    I highly doubt Duke is paying Nissan much of anything for the “tie in” so Nissan must be desperate to offload these things. If we go to the tape, we see at 14 we will hardly incur any deprecation on the base model S depending on condition:

    MY16 Nissan Leaf S

    4/12/17 $11,900 13,263 4.5 EL/A Blue Lease Midwest Milwaukee
    4/11/17 $13,250 2,365 4.5 EL/A Brown Fleet West Coast Riverside
    4/5/17 $12,600 4,797 5.0 EL/A Blue Fleet Southeast Orlando
    3/29/17 $13,750 3,590 4.0 EL/A Brown Lease West Coast Seattle
    3/22/17 $11,500 3,771 4.8 EL/A – – Lease West Coast San Francisco Bay
    3/21/17 $10,500 10,920 3.4 EL/A White Lease West Coast Riverside
    3/16/17 $14,000* 15 5.0 EL/A Gray Fleet Southeast Nashville
    3/16/17 $13,000 4,245 4.9 EL/A Silver Fleet Southeast Nashville

    SL does much better but my guess these cheapee models will be base:

    MY16 Nissan Leaf SL

    4/11/17 $18,250* 6,287 4.5 EL/A White Fleet West Coast Riverside
    4/11/17 $17,250 10,181 4.6 EL/A Brown Fleet West Coast Riverside
    4/11/17 $16,250 9,625 3.9 EL/A White Fleet West Coast Riverside
    3/30/17 $15,000 6,383 4.8 EL/A Gray Fleet Southeast Nashville
    3/30/17 $16,200 2,205 4.5 EL/A Silver Fleet Southeast Nashville
    3/30/17 $16,600 14,951 4.3 EL/A Blue Fleet Southeast Nashville
    3/30/17 $16,200 2,632 4.6 EL/A White Fleet Southeast Nashville
    3/29/17 $16,200 3,723 4.8 EL/A White Fleet Southwest Dallas
    3/23/17 $17,000 1,468 4.9 EL/A Black Fleet Northeast Pennsylvania
    3/23/17 $17,300 5,936 4.9 EL/A Silver Fleet Midwest Chicago
    3/23/17 $17,300 1,528 5.0 EL/A Gray Fleet Midwest Chicago
    3/23/17 $16,900 5,217 4.6 EL/A White Fleet Midwest Chicago
    3/20/17 $15,800 13,141 3.4 EL/A Brown Fleet Southeast Nashville
    3/16/17 $16,200 9,314 4.4 EL/A Blue Fleet Southeast Nashville
    3/16/17 $16,000 3,224 4.4 EL/A Silver Fleet Southeast Nashville
    3/16/17 $16,200 8,670 4.3 EL/A White Fleet Midwest Chicago

  • avatar
    eggsalad

    As always, the worst enemy of new Leaf sales is *used* Leaf sales.

    The 2010-2012 models, with the least battery capacity, are still viable if you have a short commute and the price is under $4k.

    ’13-15 models, with a significantly better battery, are under $7k.

    Why buy new?

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      “As always, the worst enemy of new Leaf sales is *used* Leaf sales.”

      Totally agree. Many in the EV community are celebrating these low prices without realizing the depressing effect they could have on the sale of new EVs (well, Leaf, anyway).

      On the other hand, if people view EVs like they do cell phones and laptops, who really wants to get someone’s castoff electronic equipment? Despite being really cheap, the market interest is pretty low.

  • avatar
    APaGttH

    You know what Nissan has eye watering depreciation?

    The Maxima.

    Personally I don’t get it. I had one as a rental and was very impressed. It oozed genuine luxury on the interior and was fun to drive. When I priced out a new one, sticker price alone the Maxima stuck out to me a a solid value.

    Looked at pricing on used ones and almost fell out of my chair.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I’m curious to know what is enough to make you fall out of your chair.

      • 0 avatar
        APaGttH

        Here is a 1 year old, 27K mile stripper Maxima for sale at a local Chevrolet dealership:

        https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/ctd/6086713595.html

        Asking $21.9K

        This was $33.5K new.

        35% depreciation in the first year is pretty eye watering if you were a buyer. Yes miles are high.

        Indicates to me the dealer probably gave $17K in trade or picked up auction (give or take).

        Car prices in Puget Sound tend to run higher than the rest of the country given that cars here never seem to die from cancer, and the overall cost of living.

        Here is another one at the same dealer, 7K less miles, same year, equipment and color, $20.5K

        https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/ctd/6085582677.html

        But forget that, here is a Platinum Edition one, 2016, at a dealer, 10K miles for $23.9K. That was a $40K car sticker just last year. Holy dropping like a rock batman.

        https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/ctd/6085420237.html

        If I was buying a car today, assuming this one is clean, this is the one I would probably buy – heck – I even love the color.

        • 0 avatar
          Secret Hi5

          Salvage title

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          So about 1/3-1/2 of MSRP in two MYs (we are on the cusp of MY18)? That’s about right for a second tier Japanese or Detroit marque.

          Perhaps what’s shocking is the retail asks are more in line with the true wholesale valuations. This suggests to me retail demand is low. Since I looked at one of the previous generation two years ago for a friend (which at that time was upper 20s) the lack of demand is a combination of sedan demand decline coupled with a dislike of the current model itself.

          EDIT: Notice the significant amount of “Fleet” under Platinum and “Lease” under the base model. So 2015 Nissan lease specials being returned and the only buyers for the top trim were fleet. Not healthy for a model when there are no retail buyers looking to go up trims (or trading and upgrading to a better trim).

          MY16 Nissan Maxima S

          Typical Range
          $17,900 -$20,200

          3/23/17 $18,700* 2,561 3.0 6G/A White Lease Midwest Chicago
          3/24/17 $22,800 4,593 5.0 6G/A Blue Lease Northeast Pennsylvania
          3/30/17 $20,250 8,823 4.9 6G/A Purple Lease West Coast Southern California
          4/10/17 $18,900* 9,993 2.3 6G/A Gray Lease Southwest Dallas
          3/30/17 $21,400 12,410 2.9 6G/A Black Fleet Southeast Nashville
          4/5/17 $21,400 12,702 4.2 6G/A Blue Lease Northeast New Jersey
          3/29/17 $18,000* 13,107 2.6 6G/A Blue Lease Southeast Daytona Beach
          3/21/17 $22,600* 13,243 4.3 6G/A White Lease Southeast Georgia
          4/5/17 $22,600* 14,456 3.9 6G/A White Lease Southwest Dallas
          3/23/17 $22,000 14,794 4.3 6G/A Gray Regular Southwest Texas Hobby
          4/13/17 $20,600 16,334 – – 6G/A Silver Regular West Coast Phoenix
          4/5/17 $21,600 16,677 4.2 6G/A Gray Fleet Southeast Orlando
          3/22/17 $18,400 18,485 2.6 6G/A Red Regular Southeast Central Florida
          4/4/17 $20,700 18,499 4.7 6G/A Black Regular Southeast Statesville
          3/30/17 $20,800 19,124 3.9 6G/A Black Lease Southeast Atlanta
          3/17/17 $20,700 21,193 4.1 6G/A Purple Lease Southeast Fort Lauderdale
          3/28/17 $20,700 21,518 3.8 6G/A Black Lease Southeast Orlando
          3/30/17 $18,000 22,292 3.3 6G/A White Regular West Coast Southern California
          4/3/17 $20,100 24,174 4.2 6G/A Gray Lease Southeast Orlando
          3/21/17 $18,500 24,194 3.5 6G/A Purple Regular Southeast Georgia
          4/6/17 $19,500 24,270 – – 6G/A Silver Regular West Coast Phoenix
          3/20/17 $19,600 24,585 3.7 6G/A Silver Lease Southeast Orlando
          4/7/17 $18,400 25,021 3.7 6G/A Black Regular Southeast Fort Lauderdale
          3/21/17 $19,000 25,217 3.6 6G/A Blue Lease Southeast Orlando
          3/21/17 $19,700 25,429 3.7 6G/A Gray Lease Southeast Orlando
          4/4/17 $19,700 25,929 3.5 6G/A Red Lease Southeast Orlando
          4/14/17 $19,000 27,290 4.1 6G/A Blue Regular Southeast Fort Lauderdale
          4/12/17 $20,100 27,464 3.8 6G/A Red Regular Southeast Nashville
          4/7/17 $17,000* 27,694 2.8 6G/A Blue Lease Northeast Pennsylvania
          3/28/17 $19,100 27,908 2.9 6G/A Red Lease Southeast Orlando
          4/12/17 $17,200* 28,029 1.6 6G/A Black Lease Southwest Denver
          4/11/17 $19,600 28,030 3.8 6G/A Red Lease Southeast Orlando
          4/12/17 $20,200 28,341 3.0 6G/A White Lease Southwest Dallas
          3/24/17 $19,700 29,571 4.3 6G/A Black Lease Southeast Fort Lauderdale
          3/22/17 $18,500 30,201 3.5 6G/A Black Lease Southeast Orlando
          3/30/17 $17,000* 30,429 – – 6G/A Burgundy Regular Southeast Mississippi
          4/9/17 $18,900 31,134 – – 6G/A – – Lease Southeast myCentralAuction
          4/5/17 $20,000 31,174 4.4 6G/A Blue Fleet Southeast Orlando
          3/21/17 $19,800 31,299 4.2 6G/A White Lease Southeast Statesville
          4/13/17 $18,400 31,443 3.3 6G/A Silver Lease Southeast Palm Beach
          4/14/17 $20,100 31,547 2.8 6G/A Gray Lease West Coast Nevada
          3/28/17 $19,400 31,563 3.7 6G/A Silver Lease Southeast Orlando
          4/12/17 $19,400 31,750 3.5 6G/A Blue Fleet Southeast Nashville
          3/22/17 $19,200 31,899 3.5 6G/A Silver Lease Southeast Orlando
          3/29/17 $18,300 31,923 – – 6G/A Burgundy Regular Northeast New Jersey
          4/12/17 $18,700 32,000 3.3 6G/A Gray Lease Midwest Kansas City
          4/11/17 $18,900 32,051 2.9 6G/A Blue Lease Southeast Orlando
          4/12/17 $19,200 32,183 3.9 6G/A Black Lease West Coast San Francisco Bay
          4/4/17 $18,800 32,216 3.7 6G/A Gray Lease Southeast Fort Lauderdale
          4/14/17 $17,900 32,434 2.0 6G/A Silver Regular Northeast Pennsylvania
          4/7/17 $18,800 32,782 4.1 6G/A Silver Lease West Coast Nevada
          3/22/17 $20,000 32,819 – – 6G/A Blue Regular Southeast New Orleans
          4/9/17 $19,400 33,204 4.5 6G/A Gray Lease Southeast Orlando
          4/8/17 $18,500 33,261 3.5 6G/A Red Lease Southeast Tampa
          4/3/17 $19,900 33,301 4.7 6G/A Black Lease West Coast San Francisco Bay
          4/13/17 $18,500 33,481 4.0 6G/A Red Lease Southeast Palm Beach
          3/26/17 $19,100 33,552 3.6 6G/A Blue Lease Southeast Orlando
          3/31/17 $18,500 33,554 4.0 6G/A Blue Lease Northeast Pennsylvania
          4/6/17 $18,700 33,759 3.7 6G/A White Lease Southeast Mississippi
          3/27/17 $18,000 33,814 2.7 6G/A Red Lease Southeast Palm Beach
          4/5/17 $18,800 33,854 3.6 6G/A Silver Lease Southwest San Antonio
          3/22/17 $18,600 34,045 3.1 6G/A Silver Lease Southwest Dallas
          4/11/17 $18,800 34,051 3.6 6G/A Black Lease West Coast Riverside
          4/3/17 $18,900 34,274 – – 6G/A – – Lease West Coast myCentralAuction
          4/5/17 $18,800 34,557 3.4 6G/A Red Lease Southwest New Mexico
          3/28/17 $19,800 34,558 2.8 6G/A Black Lease West Coast Riverside
          3/28/17 $18,900 35,269 3.5 6G/A Gray Lease West Coast Riverside
          3/22/17 $18,700 35,309 3.6 6G/A Red Lease Southwest Dallas
          3/28/17 $18,200 35,330 3.7 6G/A Red Regular Southeast Georgia
          4/12/17 $18,900 35,335 3.6 6G/A Red Lease Southwest Dallas
          3/17/17 $19,000 35,451 3.5 6G/A White Lease Southeast Fort Lauderdale
          3/20/17 $18,700 35,785 4.4 6G/A White Lease Southeast Nashville
          4/7/17 $18,700 36,099 3.7 6G/A Gray Lease West Coast Nevada
          4/5/17 $18,005 36,386 2.8 6G/A Gray Lease Southwest Dallas
          3/28/17 $19,100 36,458 4.2 6G/A Silver Lease Southeast Georgia
          3/28/17 $18,600 36,956 4.3 6G/A Silver Regular Southeast Statesville
          4/5/17 $17,700 37,081 2.4 6G/A Black Lease Southwest Dallas
          4/12/17 $17,001 37,775 3.5 6G/A Gray Lease Northeast Pittsburgh
          4/4/17 $18,900 37,886 3.6 6G/A Gray Lease Southeast Orlando
          4/13/17 $18,200 38,046 3.7 6G/A Black Lease Southwest San Antonio
          4/6/17 $18,800 38,046 – – 6G/A Blue Regular West Coast Phoenix
          3/30/17 $18,400 38,053 3.9 6G/A Gray Lease Southwest Texas Hobby
          4/1/17 $17,400 38,136 2.5 6G/A Silver Regular Southeast Fort Lauderdale
          4/3/17 $16,901 38,435 2.8 6G/A Black Lease Northeast Baltimore-Washington
          3/21/17 $17,500 39,042 3.2 6G/A Gray Lease Midwest St Louis
          4/14/17 $19,000 39,207 3.6 6G/A Silver Fleet Southwest Dallas
          3/27/17 $18,300 39,787 3.8 6G/A Gray Lease Southwest Dallas
          4/6/17 $18,600 39,893 2.9 6G/A Black Lease Southeast Atlanta
          3/23/17 $15,500* 39,929 3.3 6G/A Blue Lease Midwest Chicago
          3/22/17 $18,500 40,777 4.4 6G/A Silver Lease Southwest Dallas
          3/23/17 $18,100 42,170 3.5 6G/A Blue Lease Southwest Texas Hobby
          4/6/17 $18,600 42,365 3.1 6G/A Blue Lease Southwest Texas Hobby
          4/13/17 $18,100 42,853 3.6 6G/A Gray Lease Southwest San Antonio
          4/12/17 $17,700 43,155 2.9 6G/A Silver Lease Southwest Dallas
          3/30/17 $17,500 43,838 2.7 6G/A Gray Lease Southeast Mississippi
          3/28/17 $16,900 44,278 2.6 6G/A Blue Lease Northeast New England
          4/1/17 $17,500 44,605 3.5 6G/A Red Lease Southeast Fort Lauderdale
          4/5/17 $17,900 44,991 3.4 6G/A Blue Lease Southwest Dallas
          3/30/17 $17,900 48,263 3.4 6G/A Black Lease Midwest Cincinnati
          4/4/17 $17,500 54,580 3.1 6G/A Gray Lease Southeast Statesville

          MY16 Nissan Maxima Platinum

          Typical Range
          $25,200 -$28,200

          3/17/17 $27,500 197 – – 6G/- – Silver Regular Northeast Pennsylvania
          3/22/17 $29,600 2,118 4.8 6G/A Black Lease West Coast Phoenix
          3/17/17 $26,900 3,209 – – 6G/A Black Regular Northeast New Jersey
          4/14/17 $28,400 4,142 4.2 6G/A Red Fleet Southwest Dallas
          3/31/17 $27,500 5,833 3.7 6G/A Red Lease Northeast Pennsylvania
          4/14/17 $27,600 5,916 4.4 6G/A Red Fleet Southwest Dallas
          4/11/17 $26,600 6,753 4.1 6G/A Blue Fleet Southeast Orlando
          3/29/17 $28,500 7,877 3.9 6G/A Black Fleet West Coast Seattle
          3/31/17 $27,400 8,081 4.0 6G/A Black Lease Northeast Pennsylvania
          3/30/17 $28,000 8,332 4.9 6G/A Red Fleet Southeast Nashville
          3/30/17 $28,000 8,623 4.9 6G/A Blue Fleet Southeast Nashville
          4/11/17 $28,400 8,982 4.6 6G/A Black Fleet Midwest Chicago
          3/16/17 $28,800 9,218 4.5 6G/A Silver Fleet Southeast Nashville
          3/16/17 $28,200 9,630 4.8 6G/A Red Fleet Southeast Nashville
          4/13/17 $27,400 9,787 4.0 6G/A White Lease Midwest Chicago
          3/22/17 $28,000 9,894 4.8 6G/A Brown Fleet Southwest Dallas
          4/11/17 $26,200 10,399 4.1 6G/A Blue Fleet Midwest Chicago
          3/16/17 $28,200 10,431 4.5 6G/A Silver Fleet Southeast Nashville
          3/30/17 $27,800 11,106 4.9 6G/A Gray Fleet Southeast Nashville
          3/16/17 $27,600 11,161 4.4 6G/A Gray Fleet Southeast Nashville
          4/5/17 $27,000 11,520 4.2 6G/A Red Fleet Southeast Orlando
          3/21/17 $26,750 11,619 4.3 6G/A Silver Regular Southwest Houston
          4/14/17 $28,800 12,126 4.3 6G/A White Fleet Southwest Dallas
          4/5/17 $27,000 12,220 4.4 6G/A Black Fleet Southeast Orlando
          3/30/17 $27,400 12,393 5.0 6G/A Brown Fleet Southeast Nashville
          4/5/17 $27,800 13,432 4.5 6G/A White Fleet Southeast Orlando
          3/30/17 $27,600 13,520 5.0 6G/A Silver Fleet Southeast Nashville
          4/14/17 $28,400 13,537 4.7 6G/A Black Fleet Southwest Dallas
          3/16/17 $27,800 13,636 4.2 6G/A White Fleet Southeast Nashville
          3/16/17 $28,000 13,982 4.9 6G/A Red Fleet Southeast Nashville
          4/14/17 $27,800 14,627 3.6 6G/A White Fleet Southwest Dallas
          3/28/17 $29,000 15,178 4.4 6G/A Silver Fleet West Coast Riverside
          4/5/17 $26,200 15,297 4.3 6G/A Blue Fleet Southeast Orlando
          3/30/17 $27,400 15,339 4.4 6G/A Black Fleet Southeast Nashville
          3/16/17 $26,200 15,545 4.4 6G/A Blue Fleet Southeast Nashville
          4/14/17 $27,400 15,570 4.2 6G/A Gray Fleet Southwest Dallas
          4/5/17 $27,900 16,591 4.2 6G/A Black Lease Northeast New Jersey
          3/30/17 $26,600 16,762 4.8 6G/A Gray Fleet Southeast Nashville
          3/30/17 $26,800 17,436 4.8 6G/A Black Fleet Southeast Nashville
          3/30/17 $27,200 17,632 4.9 6G/A Black Fleet Southeast Nashville
          3/22/17 $24,000* 17,662 2.2 6G/A Red Fleet Southeast Daytona Beach
          4/14/17 $27,200 17,916 4.3 6G/A Blue Fleet Southwest Dallas
          4/5/17 $26,000 17,980 3.5 6G/A Black Fleet Southeast Orlando
          3/30/17 $27,000 18,132 4.8 6G/A Black Fleet Southeast Nashville
          4/5/17 $26,300 18,172 4.4 6G/A Brown Fleet Southeast Orlando
          4/14/17 $25,400 18,468 4.2 6G/A Black Fleet Southwest Dallas
          3/30/17 $25,800 18,774 4.1 6G/A Silver Fleet Southeast Nashville
          4/12/17 $25,400 18,827 3.8 6G/A Blue Fleet Southeast Nashville
          3/30/17 $26,500 19,030 4.7 6G/A Silver Regular Southwest Texas Hobby
          4/12/17 $25,600 19,241 4.1 6G/A Silver Fleet Southeast Nashville
          4/5/17 $27,200 19,322 4.2 6G/A White Fleet Southeast Orlando
          3/30/17 $26,000 19,459 5.0 6G/A Gray Fleet Southeast Nashville
          4/5/17 $26,400 19,820 4.1 6G/A Black Fleet Southeast Orlando
          4/5/17 $24,000 20,616 3.0 6G/A Red Fleet Southeast Orlando
          4/11/17 $26,500 20,905 4.2 6G/A Black Fleet Midwest Chicago
          4/11/17 $25,600 21,068 4.4 6G/A Blue Fleet Southeast Orlando
          3/16/17 $27,600 21,181 4.6 6G/A Red Fleet Southeast Nashville
          4/5/17 $27,000 21,374 4.3 6G/A White Fleet Southeast Orlando
          4/5/17 $27,000 21,589 4.1 6G/A White Fleet Southeast Orlando
          3/23/17 $27,000 21,670 4.3 6G/A White Fleet Northeast Pennsylvania
          4/11/17 $23,500* 21,943 4.2 6G/A Black Lease Southeast Georgia
          4/11/17 $23,600* 21,996 2.5 6G/A Black Fleet Southeast Orlando
          4/11/17 $25,200 22,071 4.4 6G/A Brown Fleet Southeast Orlando
          4/5/17 $26,000 22,699 4.0 6G/A Black Fleet Southeast Orlando
          4/5/17 $24,600 23,391 2.9 6G/A Blue Fleet Southeast Orlando
          4/5/17 $25,800 23,415 4.2 6G/A Black Fleet Southeast Orlando
          3/30/17 $25,000 23,690 4.1 6G/A Blue Fleet Southeast Nashville
          4/5/17 $26,600 23,926 4.2 6G/A Black Fleet Southeast Orlando
          3/16/17 $25,400 24,141 4.8 6G/A Blue Fleet Southeast Nashville
          4/5/17 $24,600 24,817 3.7 6G/A Black Fleet Southeast Orlando
          3/29/17 $22,800* 24,878 4.1 6G/A White Lease Midwest Kansas City
          4/5/17 $24,200 25,050 3.5 6G/A Black Fleet Southeast Orlando
          4/5/17 $25,200 27,906 3.7 6G/A Blue Fleet Southeast Orlando
          4/11/17 $26,600 27,914 4.3 6G/A Blue Regular Southeast Orlando
          4/11/17 $25,000 27,935 4.2 6G/A Blue Fleet Southeast Orlando
          4/5/17 $26,000 28,235 4.2 6G/A Black Fleet Southeast Orlando
          3/16/17 $28,000* 28,240 4.7 6G/A White Fleet Southeast Nashville
          3/16/17 $26,400 28,654 4.8 6G/A Blue Fleet Southeast Nashville
          4/5/17 $24,600 28,894 3.9 6G/A Black Fleet Southeast Orlando
          3/16/17 $27,600* 29,194 4.8 6G/A Black Fleet Southeast Nashville
          4/11/17 $23,000 29,538 3.0 6G/A Blue Fleet Southeast Orlando
          4/14/17 $26,400 29,766 4.4 6G/A Red Fleet Southwest Dallas
          3/16/17 $25,800 30,436 4.8 6G/A Gray Fleet Southeast Nashville
          3/30/17 $25,200 30,685 3.4 6G/A White Fleet Southeast Nashville
          4/5/17 $24,600 31,095 3.7 6G/A Black Fleet Southeast Orlando
          3/29/17 $24,200 31,704 2.0 6G/A Red Fleet Southwest Dallas
          4/14/17 $24,000 31,748 3.7 6G/A Black Fleet Southwest Dallas
          3/21/17 $25,600 33,940 4.3 6G/A Silver Lease Southeast Georgia
          4/12/17 $25,600 34,368 4.4 6G/A Black Lease Northeast New Jersey
          3/16/17 $23,400 38,342 3.9 6G/A Black Fleet Southeast Nashville
          4/11/17 $23,000 41,173 4.4 6G/A Black Fleet Southeast Orlando
          4/11/17 $23,400 42,711 3.9 6G/A Black Fleet Southeast Orlando
          3/21/17 $18,100* 45,942 – – 6G/A Gray Regular Northeast New England
          3/22/17 $23,400 46,192 4.1 6G/A White Regular Southeast Nashville
          3/22/17 $23,600 50,350 4.1 6G/A Gray Lease Southeast Nashville

        • 0 avatar
          arach

          I bought my Hyundai Sonata that was 7 months old and under 10k… all for 41% under new MSRP…. CPO with Warranty.

          There’s some hugely depreciating cars out there, especially upper trims

  • avatar
    indi500fan

    Every high school in upscale suburbs needs to be putting in a bank of charging stations. The Leaf has to be the best kid car ever.

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      I have thought about a Leaf for daughter number one. I agree that there is a lot of likes for the teenage set.

      Electric torque doesn’t make it a complete penalty box to drive, but you really can’t get in serious trouble (compared to many other cars). Does well in crash tests. No, “dad I need gas money.” No, “well I didn’t know what that red flashing light on the dashboard meant so I just kept driving,” no, “me and my boyfriend are going to a city 200 miles away for the day.”

      I see a lot of win as a teenager mobile

      • 0 avatar
        hoofdpijn

        I don’t think I’ve ever seen my teenagers phone above 10% charge on the battery since she can never be bothered to plug it in for more than 15 minutes at a time.

        At least if she runs out of gas it’s just a matter of me showing up with a gas can. :)

  • avatar

    Not impressed. Nissan, how about being a good citizen by giving out Leafs for free and proving that you actually care about environment. And stop selling that horrible SUVs and trucks. American people will appreciate that and you will immediately become a new green leader and displace Subaru as a default mode of transportation for our cherished urban elite.

    • 0 avatar
      OldManPants

      “Subaru as a default mode of transportation for our cherished urban elite.”

      Subies are as common as tatted fatties around here and we’re neither urban nor elite.

      • 0 avatar
        bryanska

        In Minneapolis the default choice for aw-shucks white folk is a Subaru. They believe it’s the best at everything. It’s so fast! They last forever! I won’t spin out! Safest cars on the road! Quiet! What these people usually have in common is a plush desk job which allows them to buy an overpriced new AWD car at whatever Subaru decides to charge them. Since they don’t make real sacrifices, they buy the inefficient choice based on friends and neighbors’ word of mouth (the most inefficient way to know markets). I know very few car-savvy people who decide on a non-WRX subaru.

      • 0 avatar
        9Exponent

        But your poverty makes you virtuous?

        • 0 avatar
          bryanska

          No, it’s that there is something… gluttonous about people who buy into things without paying some other kind of dues. Like when someone buys a BMW because their marketing manager peers have them, and that person gets a pretty damn high-zoot model with the 6 and AWD and sport suspension just because he wants to stand out in the parking lot. Of course he’s earned that money, but as an enthusiast I walk past that row of managers’ cars and wonder “does he even know how special that car is?”

          I have a brother-in-law who’s a COO and “into guitars” but I’ve never heard him play any of his collection. The guy who can wander into Guitar World on the spur of the moment and pick up a new $600 guitar like he was buying an XBOX game. So with the Subaru drivers, they don’t agonize and research and plan and save and discuss their choice like car-sick people do. They visit two dealers: VW and Subaru. They basically say “we’re here to be stroked and believe all your marketing materials”. The parts guy sells them the $300 mud mats, the $400 trailer hitch and other accessories/warranties twice the price as anywhere else.

          And then on Monday morning they gush over their new-car purchase to the whole office (as is the right of any new car purchaser). The car guys in the office bite their tongue and go back to their desks, while the Impreza buyer pukes out all the incorrect things about a Subaru (see above) and justifies all the dumb purchasing decisions that rich people always make when buying into a lifestyle product. Then everyone is the office is all atwitter about incorrect car information and dumb car-buying decisions.

          Later, on Facebook, someone with a true need for an economical, wise, and savvy car will ask her feed: “Going 2 look at cars today! What should we check out?”

          And four or five vapid Subaru Outback owners will say “Bill at White Bear Subaru is the best!! He gave us a great deal. They are the safest/fastest/most reliable cars. We love ours!” And I know LOTS of people who buy cars based on nothing but word of mouth. Hyphenated housewives by the dozen snapping up bloated 2-row crossovers new, dragging around AWD and payment books all year, while the water heater breathes its last breath in the basement. All because Tina the manager got a Subaru and believes it will save her life some day.

          • 0 avatar
            OldManPants

            “people who buy into things without paying some other kind of dues”

            Meh… you’ve just got a touch of I’mSmartButPoorAndThoseFcuksAreDumbButRichKillKillKill syndrome.

            Smoke some weed and contemplate their inevitable gooey, rotted corpses.

            Always helped me.

  • avatar
    RRocket

    You can go to EPA website and compare cars. Under “environment” you can check emissions. Tailpipe+upstream emissions. And in several of the states were this Duke credit is available, the Leaf is dirtier than a Prius (for example) due to how energy is generated.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      “the Leaf is dirtier than a Prius (for example) due to how energy is generated.”

      And many of these greenweenies don’t understand that.

    • 0 avatar
      Carlson Fan

      “Under “environment” you can check emissions. Tailpipe+upstream emissions. And in several of the states were this Duke credit is available, the Leaf is dirtier than a Prius (for example) due to how energy is generated.”

      Complete bull$hit. The ICE of the Prius cannot generate electricity cleaner than the grid, even when it’s coal powered. And they didn’t figure all the electricity used to fill the gas tank on the Prius like they did with the Leaf.

      • 0 avatar
        samspamshir

        The Prius doesn’t generate electricity as its primary mode of power. The Prius uses an ICE to directly power the wheels and recovers kinetic energy through regenerative braking to be used again at low speed.

        Now, a Honda Accord hybrid will use the ICE to generate electricity to then drive the wheels.

        I’m not arguing that the ICE in the Prius is cleaner than coal generated electricity, but people get hybrids and battery electric cars confused enough without statements like this.

        • 0 avatar
          Carlson Fan

          “The Prius doesn’t generate electricity as its primary mode of power.’

          Yes I understand that. But the recovered energy is still ultimately generated using an ICE.

          “I’m not arguing that the ICE in the Prius is cleaner than coal generated electricity, but people get hybrids and battery electric cars confused enough without statements like this.’

          Good we’re in agreement. Yes, my statement was confusing if you don’t understand how the Prius works.

  • avatar
    SuperCarEnthusiast

    Hard to believe that Nissan has keep the same exact styling of the Leaf! It like they did not know any better! Do they not want to expand their EV buyers to people looking for style and looks?

    • 0 avatar
      OldManPants

      Asking for more “style and looks” from any Asian OEM these days is a scary prospect but the supposed 2018 Leaf doesn’t seem too objectionable:

      carscoops.com/2017/03/future-cars-2018-nissan-leaf-keeps.html

  • avatar

    “Not impressed. Nissan, how about being a good citizen by giving out Leafs for free and proving that you actually care about environment. And stop selling that horrible SUVs and trucks. American people will appreciate that and you will immediately become a new green leader and displace Subaru as a default mode of transportation for our cherished urban elite.”

    You were kidding right?

  • avatar
    arach

    I got excited about this, but like everything, its too good to be true.

    I live in one of these states with the Duke Energy Rebate. However BECAUSE of the rebate, there’s no decent deals on cars.

    Its like when the First Time Home Buyers rebate came out, all the houses went up in value more than the rebate amount…

    I can’t find any cheaper than around $35-37k. Now I found a lot for like “21k” but you call them and they say “Duke Energy rebate, Federal Rebate, Lease Cash, Buyer cash, Military, and recent college grad”.

    So even with the 10k, I can’t find any under about $23k, which still isn’t cheap enough to buy one…. You can buy a new Hyundai Sonata for like $18k, and that $5k… including Time Value of Money… will pay for a lifetime of gas…

    So still not cheap enough to possibly consider driving a nissan leaf, which is sad. For all the compromises of an electric vehicle I feel like it SHOULD be about $10 grand.


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