By on March 19, 2014

tipo-fire

The year was 1995. The country: Brazil. A new Constitution had been proclaimed a few years before, and our fledgling democracy had survived a presidential impeachment. Society was growing up and demanding new, more transparent relations with big business. The car market was more open than it had been since the 1950′s,  and due to the deluge of imported cars, that brief window would soon close. I was there, in the eye of a hurricane, looking to buy my very first car with my own money. All those factors made up the perfect storm, which conspired to pull me away from the car of my dreams.

That car was the Fiat Tipo. Due to the economic shock tactics of the now-impeached President, Fiat imported it to Brazil by the boatload and it even became the sales leader for a month or two in 1995, the only time an import has ever topped the charts in Brazil. Offering great looks, lots of space, generous features list, a very sporty and comfortable ride, and, perhaps more importantly, a price that undercut the competition, the Tipo was the hottest car at the time. It had everything one could want, and seemed destined to become the most sold car that year and the foreseeable future. Then, disaster struck. Tipos were self-immolating at alarming rates, all over Brazil.

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Taking advantage of the new possibilities the Constitution and a brand-new Code of Consumers’ Protection and Defensean association of owners was created (AVITIPO – Association of Tipo Victims). The mainstream media took it up with a vengance. As it was, a new type of collective lawsuit demanding reparations of civil responsibilities, made possible by the Constitution and the new Code, was to be tested. Anyone who had a Tipo that had caught fire, irrespective of joining the association, would be entitled to moral and material damage from Fiat, if the Italian company was found guilty.

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Fanning the flames of the growing fire, Fiat fought it. They had not perceived the Brazilian world they were working in had changed as evidenced by the new Constitutional and Consumer Code dispositions. They did not anticipate that the media would make this the litmus test of the new Brazil that had come out of a painful process of re-establishing liberal democracy. At first, they dragged their feet. They claimed there was no problem with the car. After a couple of months, with the pressure mounting and sales plummeting, they finally acknowledged some responsibility. However, Fiat could not have been more inept. They blamed consumers, saying that the fires were the result of the habit of some consumers of washing their engines with kerosene, which would affect the cardboard lining of the “hot air convergent tube”.

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That did it. Societal fire around the case reached feverish levels. AVITIPO proved in the courts and, perhaps more importantly, in the court of public opinion, that Fiat had given the wrong solution to the problem. Association pundits proved that the fires were the result of a hydraulic power steering hose not coping with the pressure in the system when the wheel was at full lock in situatiosn like maneuvering into a tight parking spot. In this situation, a hose would come loose, and fluid would drip into the engine compartment, eventually reaching the beginning of the exhaust system under the engine and, voilà, a fire would ignite.

Brazilian consumers watched the drama in awe and disgust. Awe that consumers’ rights were effectively being imposed on unwilling big business and that the new Constitution had effectively given them new rights and powers against even the biggest corporations. They were also disgusted that such a big company could have been so incompetent as to not find the problem and so resistant to the new mores.

Fiat eventually recanted and recalled the cars to change the defective hose. It lost in the courts too, though they took the fight all the way to the Supreme Court. Consumers patted themselves on the back, as did the press, which delighted in its new role of the knight in shining armor for consumers. New legislation was put in place making the mandated recalls easier. Some companies, aware of the public relations fiasco, did indeed become more transparent and would not fight consumers as harshly.

Me? I never got the Tipo. Afraid of the fires, unsure as to what to do, in the middle of the howling winds of this perfect storm, I bought another kind of Fiat, an Uno, and was very happy with it. The whole situation made me realize how small we are in the whole process and how we go back and forth, mere pawns in the big money game.

I lost an opportunity to get the Tipo (a new situation would present itself a couple of years later) and regretted it. In the end, the solution was found, roughly 100 cars burned and owners were compensated. In its 4 year Brazilian career, Fiat sold more than 180,000 imported Tipos. Around 150,000 in its first two years. After the start of the melée, the last two years saw only 30,000 find their way into consumers’ hands.

In 1997, the Tipo went out with a whimper. I wince when I think of the car that got away from me.

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69 Comments on “Dispatches do Brasil: Law, Society, Media and Fires. Consumers Are Just Dust in the Wind...”


  • avatar

    Funny this was first posted with Derek Kreindler as author, in which case this would’ve been about how gubmint overreach allowed unruly collectivists to malign a benevolent corporation only trying to get a fair shake. Or how the gubmint-bailed Fiatsler was up to its old tricks even back in the day.

    • 0 avatar

      I think you have me confused with someone else.

      • 0 avatar

        Must be the other Derek Kreindler from Ryerson.

        http://www.rrj.ca/b20122/

        • 0 avatar
          Monty

          Pretty big stretch there, mad scientist. What was obviously a tempest in a teapot between some disgruntled academics isn’t the litmus test of Mr. Kreindler’s politics.

          • 0 avatar

            He also either missed or outright ignored this article, where I am directly quoted (unlike the one he linked to, which was little more than a histrionic screed).

            http://theeyeopener.com/2012/02/sun-tv-bashes-rye-journalism/

          • 0 avatar

            > Pretty big stretch there, mad scientist. What was obviously a tempest in a teapot between some disgruntled academics

            Consider looking up what Ezra Levant does to see if it matches this description; perhaps you believe Derek to be similarly ignorant of it.

          • 0 avatar

            I went on to his show in good faith. I left unimpressed. None of it is germane to the auto industry, and I am unimpressed that you would try and draw a connection, however tenuous, between that and Marcelo’s article. I was naive to think that going on the Canadian version of Bill O’Reilly would be conducive to any honest discussion – but if you did more research, you would have seen direct quotes from me on my impressions of the interview.

          • 0 avatar

            > He also either missed or outright ignored this article, where I am directly quoted

            The *actual video* is directly linked from the Ryerson article:

            http://www.torontosun.com/2012/02/10/young-brains-in-chains

            “When adam sent me your article… it really resonated”, etc.

            I didn’t really care to watch the whole thing but extrapolating from one (former) prof and other shaky innuendo (did they *really* teach Marxist anything in those electives?) to the Ezra’s worldview seems akin to Fox News except w/o the balance part.

            At this point the best defense would be to plead eagerness to please the host out of youthful naivety (as of 2 years ago).

          • 0 avatar

            “I didn’t really care to watch the whole thing”

            Well, that would help, wouldn’t it?

            This whole thing is asinine, and I don’t feel that any “defense” is necessary when you’re ignorant of the context surrounding this matter, and using it as some asinine strawman. I had objections to the way certain things were structured in my program, namely the electives, which were heavily rooted in Frankfurt School teachings. I thought my TV appearance would be an adequate platform to address them, but it turned out that both extremes seized on it to further their own ideological grievances.

          • 0 avatar

            Btw, I wrote the above before seeing your last comment. Nicely done.

          • 0 avatar

            On the other hand, look how Jonah Goldberg went to Jon Stewart’s show. It was devastating. Jonah used his superior intellect to deflect all attempts of the liberal clown host to focus on the superficial in order to mock his guest. It was a lesson in saying truth to power of the camera. They could not even kill it in post-editing.

            So, don’t be afraid of O’Reilly. Just be sure to bring your A-game and negotiate your own camera crew on the set.

          • 0 avatar

            > On the other hand, look how Jonah Goldberg went to Jon Stewart’s show. It was devastating. Jonah used his superior intellect to deflect all attempts of the liberal clown host to focus on the superficial in order to mock his guest.

            It’s probably more telling of american social discourse that anyone believes these are serious thinkers. Jon Stewart is a comedian and “ideas” guys like Goldberg/Gingrich/Ryan are what dumb people believe smart folks look like.

          • 0 avatar

            > This whole thing is asinine, and I don’t feel that any “defense” is necessary when you’re ignorant of the context surrounding this matter, and using it as some asinine strawman.

            Those in the video don’t look made of straw IMO.

            Despite JB’s adjacent remark, I anticipate time will be bide until the ironypocrisy of quenching dissent while preaching plurality passes.

          • 0 avatar
            TOTitan

            Pete Z….. you are wrong about Goldberg devastating Stewart. Stewart exposed Goldberg as the double talking hypocrite he is.

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      What does your weird issue with TTAC’s managing editor’s opinion of his college have to do with Fiats catching on fire in Brazil in the 1990s?

      Complete off-topic derailment with the first comment.

      This is another example of why I wish some sort of moderation policy would come back to the website. This place is starting to get ridiculous. There has got to be some fair ground between Farago’s Iron Fist, Schmitt’s Wildly Inconsistent Fist, and Baruth’s Nonexistent Fist.

      • 0 avatar

        as much as I don’t like to admit it, I agree.

        • 0 avatar
          Jack Baruth

          I view all of you as customers; Bertel viewed you all as impositions. The fact that the Daily Dildo or whatever his website is called doesn’t even allow comments speaks volumes.

          Derek is likely to start moderating with a bit more force in the near future. Frankly, I despise the prospect, but if the bulk of the readers want more aggressive moderation, we’ll provide it, I suppose.

          • 0 avatar

            Hey Jack! There’s an aphorism in the legal world that pretty much says that those who abuse their liberty will see it taken away. If Derek so chooses to moderate some, then the next question will be an age old problem, namely: Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

          • 0 avatar

            > Derek is likely to start moderating with a bit more force in the near future.

            I was told Derek gave Pch101 his “warning” for the predictable if not preordained ban, so it seems obvious where that’s going. The squeakiest wheels are probably ones who miss Bertel the most.

            This site calls itself the “truth” about cars, and Farago was at least tolerant enough it wasn’t a complete misnomer. His disciple might not make the same political mistakes but perhaps didn’t learn the virtues.

          • 0 avatar

            I asked publicly asked PCH to stop personally attacking other users, nothing more. If I didn’t know better, I’d say you’re setting yourself up to be some kind of martyr.

          • 0 avatar
            Kenmore

            You igguno-ah Toranaga-sama.

            Ekkusupekku-to bisitah.

            Putto affaehs in-ah ohdah.

          • 0 avatar

            > Ekkusupekku-to bisitah. Putto affaehs in-ah ohdah.

            No, the trick to acting with petty authority is enough patience so it isn’t obvious. Unfortunately honor culture is not known for producing the best and brightest, as the Paula Dean hopefuls predictably circle the wagons same as admins past.

            It really is interest how this site was cursed with increasingly lesser versions of RF. The prophecy perhaps only awaits Baruth’s departure for greener pastures.

          • 0 avatar

            > I asked publicly asked PCH to stop personally attacking other users, nothing more.

            There’s little need for another video to explain the, uh, act of martyrdom here:

            Exhibit A: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/02/canadian-government-investigating-price-discrepancies-for-new-cars/#comment-2003478

            Exhibit B: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/02/eu-us-free-trade-deal-begins-completion-expected-in-2015/#comment-2006792

            An observation for the other pea in the pod is that as much of an opiate authority can be, prioritizing personal expediency and will to power over audience needs such as quality content or forthright dialog has its consequences.

            The broader perspective is a niche site has to find its voice and place. It goes without saying a modern egalitarian approach appeals to a better demographic than a right-wing car blog for retirees, esp. w/o the talent to blow as hard as RF.

            > If I didn’t know better, I’d say you’re setting yourself up to be some kind of martyr.

            This is simply what the truth looks like without the people-pleasing. It makes for a revealing Rorschach test of what folks see in it.

            So on a scale of 1 to ‘make another example of’, how would you rate this comment? Serious question.

          • 0 avatar

            You’ve lost me.

          • 0 avatar

            > You’ve lost me.

            If JB can’t explain this to you, then the editors should take the job more seriously. The founder this place is still in shadow of was the apex yellow journalist. Make all appearance to speak truth to unpopular powers and gain a resonant audience regardless of substance. Even better, the resulting show draws an even larger crowd outside targets of the core msg.

            Now you guys need to figure out what to do with this pulpit; TTAC isn’t just a car news blog. Perhaps ponder the ethics beyond “the customer is always right” which just defers questions of direction or accountability. In any case, learn from the mistakes of predecessors who tried to follow in RF’s footsteps.

          • 0 avatar

            That is sage advice, but the route you took, via my college experience and insinuations of a vast right-wing conspiracy, made the lesson nearly incoherent.

            In today’s FT, there is an interview with Nassim Taleb, and he has a great quote that I try and live by: “I also have inverse mentors: people I learnt to not imitate.”

            I think it is applicable in this position.

          • 0 avatar

            > Nassim Taleb

            Just FYI, Nassim Taleb is a prime example of one of those people he speaks of.

            Those interested in the general problems of induction without the trivial revisionist history are better off reading someone actually smart like Hume et al.

          • 0 avatar

            For funsies, Nassim Taleb the tl;dr edition:

            “I serendipitously wrote a book on the market bubble just as it’s about to burst, so I f-ing “called it”. Now imma pretend nobody could’ve known that large systemic risks are dangerous and mold everything in history around this and add a buncha stuff about induction and other big fancy words that don’t really apply and sell it to people who’ve don’t know much science or philosophy and they’ll think imma genius.”

          • 0 avatar

            Just to head off any suggestions this might be too incoherent, veritable proof that Taleb is a dummy:

            The central message of Black Swan stripped of all its intellectual pretense is the no-shiit-sherlock premise that some risks are too big to take. This consists of two core parts: 1. the unknown 2. big losses. Risks are by definition predicated on unforeseeable future events, so no credit for using the dictionary properly for half of that “insight”.

            For a trivial illustration of the other half consider the simple example of parts sharing leading to larger recalls: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/03/guest-post-society-of-automotive-analysts-reliability-study/#comment-2957049

            As shown the more than commensurate drop in frequency makes for aggregate reduction in loss, but if the manufacturer cannot sustain the one massive loss (ie goes bankrupt) it’s a moot point.

            In sum, everything the guy brings to the table in 3 easy paragraphs.

      • 0 avatar

        > What does your weird issue with TTAC’s managing editor’s opinion of his college have to do with Fiats catching on fire in Brazil in the 1990s?

        It seems only righteous to speak what’s true as it reveals itself. Given it’s the first time this one’s come to mind it should be evident my lackadaisical concern over it, but that appears not to be shared by everyone.

        If it’s not obviously by now, people don’t come to TTAC just to discuss the particulars of Fiats in Brazil in the 90′s. The only real question is whether they ever cared about the truth part of the namesake to read ones which aren’t their own.

        • 0 avatar

          Tilting at windmills

        • 0 avatar
          ajla

          “If it’s not obviously by now, people don’t come to TTAC just to discuss the particulars of Fiats in Brazil in the 90′s.”

          It might shock you to learn this, but when I click on an article about Fiat fires in Brazil in the 1990s on a car blog, that is actually the topic I’m looking to learn about and discuss.

          For some reason you seem to place a great amount of personal importance on TTAC’s future and the habits of its editors. I’ve been commenting here for many years, but for me TTAC is “just a car blog”. I’m here for the automobile talk. I don’t think about this site during my daily life away from the internet and if it disappears or goes off the rails then I’ll find another one.

          • 0 avatar
            CJinSD

            You just don’t understand. Sometimes, TTAC expresses opinions that agenthex disagrees with! That’s unacceptable to a brainwashed fascist with a room temperature IQ.

          • 0 avatar

            > You just don’t understand. Sometimes, TTAC expresses opinions that agenthex disagrees with! That’s unacceptable to a brainwashed fascist.

            The main difference between a brainwashed fascist and I is that one will explain the disagreement to any depth of detail desired to demonstrate why the brainwashed whatever is an unerringly accurate empirical description. OTOH the brainwashed are largely incapable of explaining anything and therefore limited to mere word association.

            The results of these diametrically opposed methodologies is evident.

          • 0 avatar

            > with a room temperature IQ.

            This is not something beneficial for you to bring up.

          • 0 avatar

            > but for me TTAC is “just a car blog”.

            No doubt, which is why anyone who sees more to it is a brainwashed fascist with a room temperature IQ. Quite amusing.

    • 0 avatar
      05lgt

      UMS, I’m not saying you’re not smart, just that you should consider going back on your meds soon. Posting here isn’t important to me, so I’ve taken a chance and spoken my mind.

  • avatar
    Nick_515

    Thanks for the article, Marcello. I used to drive one occasionally in the mid-1995 as it belonged to a friend. I myself actually dreamed of its cousin-with-a-trunk, the Tempra, as I found it more stately compared to the too-roundy Tipo. Little did i know that due to my urban lifestyle, I was many, many years away from finally owning a car.

    • 0 avatar

      The Tempra made it too Brazil, too. In fact, it was built here, even before the Tipo. I believe 91, or 92. It shook the market greatly proving that the Italians had what it took to compete in the executive car market. It gave Fiat a well desired halo effect and helped them on in eventually gaining the leadership of the market. I lobbied hard for my Dad to get one, as it was way too expensive for me. To my dismay, he never did.

      Thanks for reading!

      • 0 avatar
        Athos Nobile

        “to compete in the executive car market”

        The joys of the 3rd world. Definitely, ignorance is bliss.

        Locals still laugh at me when I tell them Toyota is a “luxury” brand back there.

        • 0 avatar

          Hola Athos, cómo le va?

          Well, it did. What can one do? The Tempra had all kinds of technology that were firsts in the Brazilian market. Later turbo versions would give lesser BMWs a scare in ad hoc street disputes. Some of the best, richest seats ever! Much to like in the Tempra.

          As to Toyota being considered luxury, slowly but surely that is changing. Specially regarding sedans. It’s funny how SUVs still have not been affected by the changing perceptions. People are getting more exposure to them and are slowly noticing the limitations.

          It is a different world though.

          • 0 avatar
            Nick_515

            Athos, what was the “executive car market like in the early 1990s in the US? I am inclined to think you are exaggerating the spread between first world cars and the rest, but i am ready to be proven wrong.

            Marcello, the Tempra was the first car I had ever seen to have a digital speedometer. I may be wrong, but there was even a graph with bars indicating increasing speed. HOW COOL WAS THAT?

          • 0 avatar

            Hey Nick! We got the Tempra SW with that digital speedometer. There were differences between the Brazilian and European Tempra. One was our Tempra sedan never got a digital speedometer. Nor did it get the back window wiper. Now, how cool was that? A sedan with a rear window wiper?

          • 0 avatar
            Athos Nobile

            Nick,

            Can’t speak for the US, but where I come from, the game was called Century, Sierra, Camry, Corolla, Tempra, R21, Mitsubishi MX/MF/ZX/MS (Galant). Those were the luxury cars.

            Then there were the SUVs: Samurai (LC), XJ & ZJ, Blazer and Grand Blazer.

            And that is without including the imports.

            I never intended to bag Marcelo.

        • 0 avatar
          djn

          I have a very close attorney friend in Bahia who happily paid the equivalent of 45K USD for a Toyota corolla Executive car.

          • 0 avatar

            Yep, know many of them. Being that we have all sorts of executive French and American cars, I have no sympathy for your friend. I mean, do whatever you want with your money, but even in our overpriced market, there are cheaper, and I, I stress the “I”, think better alternatives in our market.

      • 0 avatar
        Nico

        My uncle eyed the Tempra for a while. Too bad he never went for it, despite some lobbying on my part too. He kept his Regatta 2000 (did you get that in Brazil?) for a long time and eventually swapped it for an automatic Corolla. Bo-ring.

        You guys always got the most interesting cars. I was always jealous as a kid. Tempra 16v, Uno Turbo, Vectra GSI (I remember the Quatro Rodas issue about the GSI being the first brazilian car to reach 200km/h!). We never got any of those in Argentina.

        EDIT: I was wrong, it wasn’t the first one to reach 200km/h, it was just the fastest in Brazil. Still, 207km/h in early 90′s south america was shocking! http://quatrorodas.abril.com.br/classicos/brasileiros/chevrolet-vectra-gsi-641080.shtml

        • 0 avatar

          Hey Nico, the Vectra did it, the Omega, the Tempra Turbo, even the Uno. We had an Astra SW that did it. The Marea Turbo would do 215. Still think that was the fastest car ever produced in Brazil.

          I believe the Regatta or Ritmo antidated the Tipo and Tempra. We, sadly, never got it.

  • avatar
    Molotovio

    Nice story that show how Brasil grew as a serious country after the military dictatorship.
    My first car was also a FIAT UNO (1.6) made in Brasil. The doors were too big/heavy for the hinges. The engine had to be rebuilt at 50K Km, still fond memories.

  • avatar
    Athos Nobile

    That was a good looking car. I still like the MKIII Golf better.

    The Tempra was a beauty inside, specially with the leather seats.

    • 0 avatar

      I know I’m in the minority, but that Golf never did it for me. I always much preferred the Tipo.

      I agree with the Tempra interior, though I did like those fat, blue, velvet seats. They picked up dust, oh they did, but they looked and felt so good!

      • 0 avatar
        Nick_515

        Gold was smaller – they weren’t the same category. They didn’t feel that way anyway.

        Did you guys upgrade to the Fiat Stilo in the late 1990s?

        • 0 avatar

          Yep, but the Stilo was a little later than that. 00s I believe, between Tipo and Stilo there were the Brava and Bravo. Brother had a Brava 1.8 16v HGT. Much better than the Tipo he had before that, or the Focus Ghia 2.0 he had after the Brava.

          Dad drives a 2011 Stilo as his company car. He has resisted them trading it as he enjoys the car and nothing has gone wrong on it in these three years and close to 100.000 km. Arguably better finished than any mid size hatch on the Brazilian market today.

  • avatar
    Monty

    Thanks for the retrospective, Marcelo. My advice? Don’t look back in regret – what happened then is part of the path that lead you to where you are now. Idina Menzel (or Adele Maziel!) sang it best “Let it Go”.

    • 0 avatar

      Hey Monty I don’t. I recognize that time moves on and cars get better. The Tipo is more a fantasy than anything else. The Brava that substituted it was a much better car for example. However, if I win the lottery, the Tipo would find a place in my 10 to 12 car garage.

  • avatar
    Viquitor

    Those were the days, when the BMW 325i were filling Barra Shopping’s parking spots and the Tipo was a best seller. Autolatina and GM then lobbyed the crap out of the Congresso to raise import taxes, killing all the fun in the process.

    The Tipo was indeed a burner, and that was Brazil’s first major case against an automaker.

    The car was great, though. The 2.0 SLX and the Tempra SW were young Viquitor’s dream machines. Years later my dad would get an Omega CD 4.1 to my disappointment, after all the arguments I raised in favor of the Tempra Stile.

    Great post, Marcelo. Nostalgia of simpler times.

  • avatar
    TurboX

    Hi Marcelo,
    Thanks for the article, it brings me found memories. I lived in Brazil until 2000 and drove Fiat Tipo that I bought new in 1995. It replaced a 1992 VW Gol GTS that was totaled by a friend and that I miss dearly to this day(the car, not the friend).
    Back to the Tipo, I found it to be an overall nice car. It was well built compared to the cars we had in Brazil at that time and it was priced very competitively – I got a loaded version with sunroof and A/C for the price I would pay for a stripper Gol 1.8. My only complaint was the weak 1.6L engine that produced about 90hp IIRC.
    I had 2 recalls done where FIAT replaced the heat shield and the power steering hoses, and I made a note to myself not to hold the steering wheel at the lock position for more than a few seconds, afraid that the hose would explode. It never did.

    • 0 avatar

      Hey TurboX, nice to meet you! You summed it up. The Tipo cost the same as a stripper Gol 1.8. Absolute no brainer.

      The Italian Tipo had a 1.6 with 82hp. Later, the Brazilian Tipo had a 1.6 with 92 horses.

      As noted in article, among a universe of 180 000 Tipos, there were about 100 documented cases. Changing the hoses and, being extra careful like you were, not many more went up in flames after the solution was found. I bet your Tipo is still being drive. The tipo is still seen everyday.

  • avatar

    This reminds me how the media tried to attack Wrangler for the fires. It did not fly with the public. Chrysler, however, issued a recall for the skid plate, replacing it with a “skid bar”: a useless CYA pipe. Thank you, journalist jerks and worthless consumer protectors. Now we have to pay the aftermarket for a decent skid plate. Could be worse, I suppose – like the whole model discontinued.

    • 0 avatar

      Hey Pete! Thanks for reading. In many ways it was, but our people are much less prepared to deal with the conflicting positions. Don’t get me wrong, Fiat was proven to be wrong and arrogant in the whole affair, and some in the media made a field day of the whole thing, but in the end, those who weathered it out got to enjoy a very good car for the times and went on to enjoy years of ownership. However, the storm killed the car and delayed Fiat’s eventual take over of the lead in our market. But it was a pivotal case in citizenship. After this case, companies were on notice that games would not be tolerated and there were people watching and consequences would be had. Fiat lost as did hapless Tipo owners (though they got compensated), the media probably got too much, but the rule of law did become stronger. At the end of the day, a great outcome.

  • avatar
    djn

    If I had a big wad of cash (or in case the Real goes in the toilet) there are 3 brasilian cars I would buy:

    FNM 2150 TIMB
    Alfa Romeo 2300 Ti

    and………………………

    Interlagos!


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  • Brendan McAleer, Canada
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