By on April 21, 2012
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With the release of the SciBaru FRZ just weeks away, everyone’s been caught up in the sticker price, available options and aftermarket support for the car, but nobody has asked a crucial question; what about insurance?

Insurance premiums tend to vary by jurisdiction, but under-25 males (such as myself) always suffer from financial trauma when trying to insure anything remotely interesting. In some places, paying double digits to insure a Corvette Z06 is considered robbery. Here in Ontario, anything under $150 a month for a young person is a steal, and the cars that can be insured for that little are not even remotely cool.

I don’t really care whether the FR-S/BRZ will drift easily or not, but I know lots of people will. There will be a percentage of people who will confine their behind-the-wheel adventures to the track, but there will also be another percentage that will attempt to play Formula D on public roads, or engage in other forms of reckless behavior. And this group, no matter how small, may ruin it for everyone.

While the sticker price of the cars aren’t exactly exorbitant, my friend Michael Banovsky over at Sympatico Autos raised the idea that high insurance premiums could conceivably kill the car’s appeal to a significant portion of its target market. Even though it’s a 2+2 coupe with a naturally aspirated engine, a few too many accident claims or speeding tickets could see premiums spike upwards to a level where even the most car-obsessed fanboy with a terminal lack of financial acumen might shy away from buying one. In Ontario, insurance for cars like the Honda S2000 or Subaru WRX can cost hundreds of dollars per month (I was once quoted over $500 per month for a WRX. I was 21, but without any tickets or claims) thanks to high theft rates and their adoption by local idiots who insist on racking up tickets for illegal car modifications, speeding, street racing and reckless driving. One of the reasons my Miata doesn’t have such high premiums is because owners tend to be closer to collecting their pensions than paying off student loans and they’re rarely crashed or stolen.

High insurance premiums are cited (along with gas prices) as a reason for the death of the muscle car. I really hope they don’t torpedo the BR-Z either. There’s really not much that can be done about it, save for people driving responsibly and not screwing it up for the rest of us. Unfortunately, wishing that the world was a certain way rather than accepting it on reality’s terms has consistently proven to be a losing strategy.

I called my insurer to get a quote on the BRZ/FR-S for this article. They didn’t even have it in their database yet.

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91 Comments on “Generation Why: If You Are Under 25 Or An Idiot, Please Don’t Buy A Scion FR-S Or Subaru BRZ...”


  • avatar
    Educator(of teachers)Dan

    Yup from a combined “monthly payment + insurance + gasoline + mpg” most of them are likely better off buying an old Corvette with a manual trans. Low mileage late 90s models can be had for a pretty fair price.

  • avatar
    Porsche986

    I can keep everyone in the loop on this if you want… it may sound “mid-life crisis” but I ordered an FR-S, the dealer called to say it would be delivered early June, just in time for my 40th birthday… :-)

    • 0 avatar
      mnm4ever

      I think the Porsche is more of a mid life crisis than the scion…lol

    • 0 avatar
      sastexan

      Me too; I ordered mine last week. Dealer thinks sometime between a month from now and early June delivery. From the FT86 forums, looks like the First 86 FR-Ss are on US soil and being prepped for delivery. I thought they would wait until June 8th (8/6 for the non-americans) with all their superstitious marketing around the number 86, but guess I’m wrong.

  • avatar
    PaulVincent

    What about insurance is an excellent question, but just because you get an answer, it doesn’t mean you’ll be insured. My first car was a ’69 Mach I, but it could have been a ’67 Shelby GT500 (with a 427 side oiler), but the insurance agent said no policy for the GT500. So, after I buy the Mach I, this same agent refuses to write the policy saying, “You can make that Mach I as powerful as you want, and I’m not going to insure it.”

    • 0 avatar
      mnm4ever

      I don’t think that happens anymore. Insurance in the 60s and 70s was different, today it’s all corporate. They will cover you, but charge you 900 a month so you can’t afford it.

      • 0 avatar
        indi500fan

        What I find humorous is that back in the 60s if you even whispered the word “racing” around an insurance agent, there was no way you were getting coverage.

        Now the car races are all covered up with car insurance adverts.

  • avatar

    When I first got my own insurance on a V6 Chrysler 300, my insurance (NYC) (GEICO) was roughly $222 a month. When I traded in to buy an SRT8 300c, it went to $285, but, by buying a new house in a lesser populated area outside the area it dropped to $185 a month. “5 Year good driver” discount dropped it to $178. I’m not sure how they found out about it, but, adding a supercharger brought me back up to $180 a month.

    Since the NINJA generation can barely get car loans (let alone a job), I don’t see many of them buying this – or being able to afford insurance for it. More likely, they’ll end up in a Cruze or Focus.

    I might go check this BRZ out. I never liked Subaru and hear their maintenance is horrible.

    • 0 avatar
      TEXN3

      Maintenance is no worse than any other Japanese manufacture with a timing belt. I believe the new FB Boxer has a chain.

      Those are incredible rates for a sedan, no matter the engine. Im guessing location has alot to do with it.

      When I first started driving in the late 90s, in TX, rates were $119 for me with an Integra and a F150.

      At 30, I pay $76 a month for maxed-out coverage on an Outback and TL. At 25, the Outback was $67/month when it was brand new. This is in Idaho, of course…I’m sure you have preconceived notions now. I recently got qoutes for a few potential TL replacements from my State Farm agent:

      12 Mustang GT: 52/month
      11 Taurus SHO: 43/month
      11 CTS-4: 42/month
      12 Legacy GT: 48/month

      Pretty impressed. My point is, you’re rates will really start to decline soon.

      • 0 avatar
        Educator(of teachers)Dan

        IIRC the flat 6 Subaru (not that relevant here but hey we’re talking about Subaru engines) has had a timing chain from day one.

      • 0 avatar
        raph

        Yeah 93 bucks a month for my GT500 – age certainly is a factor, but IIRC the biggest factor in determining what rate you pay is the repair and replacement costs of a vehicle, after that it seems to be your driving record and credit rating.

        Of course it also depends on the company and the services they offer or lack there of. Its also a good idea to shop around every few years and see what rate you can get. I say this after having the same insurance company over a decade with rate creep and buying my GT500, was paying 125 a month for a GT Mustang, they doubled my rate for the GT500 (thought to myself well there is a 7k difference between the replacement cost of the 3v 4.6 and 4v SC 5.4 maybe thats the problem), then they tacked on another 60 bucks for a defective equipment charge (disclaimer – talked a speeding ticket down because it was nothing more than a shitty speed trap) and that was enough, did the research and went from 300+ bucks a month to 93.

      • 0 avatar
        tekdemon

        No they won’t. I have a clean driving record and insurance on my 9 year old Camry runs me about that much still, and I’m in one of the lowest crime areas here. I ran quotes on multiple cars and the real constant is just that insurance companies want an extra 150 a month just to put your car on the road in the greater NY area. I don’t blame them, accidents happen nonstop here.

        My parents are in their 50s and 60s and they pay even more since they’re actually within NYC limits, over 2 grand a year on an even older Camry and that’s after I did a bunch of work to lower their insurance rates by switching insurers…geico wanted closer to four grand a year for a 2002 Camry.

        The model of car matters a lot less here, just for laughs I tried a Porsche quote and my rates were only like 20 bucks a month higher. My friend who lives in a regular American suburb pays like 40 a month on a Cayman and he’s younger and less experienced at driving-it’s literally the zip code.

        There are some cars that will just make your premium go through the roof here though…good luck trying t get an STi insured for under 400 a month.

      • 0 avatar
        wirobins

        Age/marital status (33/married) seem to play as much a role as location. I used to get reamed on my old Integra, no such problem with our new STI.

        2011 Subaru STI with full coverage:
        $80/month in Sausalito, CA
        $105/month in Downtown San Francisco

    • 0 avatar
      Ubermensch

      $222 a month!? Yikes. I have never paid more than $60 a month for full coverage on any of my cars and 2 of them were bought new. Currently paying $550 a year for full coverage on a 2006 Legacy 2.5i wagon.

      • 0 avatar

        Less populate states should require lower monthly payments.

        Yes, my insurance was $222 a month on the V6 and jumped to $285 for the SRT8.
        We get SCREWED because of car theft and bumper to bumper traffic accidents. I actually had a new car and got hit by an old civic at about 10 mph when the moron was texting.
        Monthly payments on S550 were $325.
        Monthly payments when I had an Expedition 2002 were $175
        Escalade EXT 2008 = $250.

        If you lease here, you get REALLY SCREWED EVEN HARDER.

    • 0 avatar
      Sam P

      I had a Subaru Outback for nearly 70k miles and the maintenance was not horrible at all (and I sold it with 214k miles).

    • 0 avatar
      Ryoku75

      Get the FRS and save your cash, its the same thing minus pointless mark-ups.

    • 0 avatar
      naterator

      NINJA generation – that’s awesome.

  • avatar
    DenverMike

    Dudes 25 and under will snap these things up after the original owners moves on. Most new 240SXs and early Miatas were bought by chicks, or so it seemed.

  • avatar
    mitchw

    I have reason to believe the BRZ is being aimed at empty nesters who already own a Subi. BTW, Subaru are now the official ride for former Volvo chickensh*ts who are now blithely clogging up left lanes across the continent. Hope this helps.

    • 0 avatar
      TEXN3

      Agreed, it’s the worse part if owning a Subaru. I dumped my wife’s old 760 right before we got married. Try as you might, it was slow unless you wanted to wait around for the turbo to spool. I like my granola to be eaten by the cow I’ll enjoy for dinner.

  • avatar
    olddavid

    This may be a fine automobile, but the combined costs quoted above are why I pay cash for my cars, drive them hard only on empty roads, and keep the minimum liability insurance only. As a 40 yr. car business man, making my living cashing the contracts, a new car and its declining asset value makes little sense. I’ll call one of my friends to drive one for the afternoon, think this is great!, then do the mental math and be very pleased driving home in my car with the empty “lienholder”.

    • 0 avatar
      NormSV650

      Some of the monthly prices are what I pay for months of liability. I have four cars paying liability only that match some of the one month premiums.

      Honestly don’t think these cars will turn heads at Car & Coffee or the local car show.

      • 0 avatar
        arbnpx

        Subaru brought a BRZ in Satin White Pearl and the 6-speed automatic transmission to the UMass Amherst car show today. It wasn’t turning heads, it was gathering entire crowds. Hundreds of people stopping by to look, peering into the engine bay, under the underbody, at the wheel wells, and especially sitting in the driver’s seat.

        The Subaru rep was nice, though kept saying, “The only involvement Toyota had in this was the direct injection system!” I smiled at that and shook my head, considering how the MAF sensor said “Denso”, and the air box said “Denso”, and the transmission was Aisin… When other people were asking, I told the “other side of the story”, about how the platform, engine, suspension hardware were Subaru, but Toyota was influential in the D4-S system, the transmission, Torsen differential, and exterior and interior styling (see the video series with Akihiro “Dezi” Nagaya at the Geneva Motor Show).

        This makes me concerned about inter-brand enthusiast relations. I want BRZ and FR-S owners to unite in their passion for this amazing car. If you talk to Toyota or Subaru marketing right now, they’ll most likely be pushy and say that their company built almost all of the car. Groups like FT86Club are a unifying force, though I still wonder what would happen if I drove my soon-to-arrive FR-S onto a Subaru dealership holding a car show. We’ll see; I’ll offer an olive branch, as I’m at peace with the sales targeting of the US brand offerings (if you want HIDs or leather seats, you go BRZ… or you wait a few months and order some parts!).

      • 0 avatar
        TEXN3

        Even though Denso is under the Toyota umbrella, they still supply parts to other companies. My 91 Integra, 98 3.2TL, and 07 Outback all have Denso components scattered about.

        I don’t think the dealer would really care if you brought your Scion and had a car show. They could care less about the product they’re selling as long as they get a commission, same for any dealer anywhere.

      • 0 avatar
        mcs

        @arbnpx “I still wonder what would happen if I drove my soon-to-arrive FR-S onto a Subaru dealership holding a car show.”

        It sounds like you’re in New England, so it shouldn’t be a problem here. Subaru of New England, the authorized Subaru distributor for New England, is owned by a Toyota Dealer. If there was a problem, a quick call to the distributor would resolve any issues.

  • avatar
    fredtal

    When I was 25 some 35 years ago I drove around in a 20 year old Sprite. The fact that you can even consider buying a new car means I have no sympathy for your insurance problems. Sorry, just being a grumpy old man.

  • avatar
    Pch101

    These cars will be sold in pretty low volumes. I don’t see there being much of an insurance problem, in that there won’t be many buyers in this age group to have such a problem. And I would imagine that many of those buyers who are that young will probably have access to local subsidy programs, i.e. their parents.

    As far as I can tell, the good people of Ontario pay ungodly amounts of money for auto insurance, well in excess of what is typical in the US. It’s not exactly a steal on our side of the border, but Ontario seems to be in an entirely different stratosphere altogether.

    • 0 avatar
      Neb

      Yeah, I have no idea why Ontario (especially the GTA) pays so much more in car insurance. The cynical part of me assumed that it was like Canadian cellphones (an oligopoly supported by the government who keeps out genuine competition) but maybe it’s just a bad market, what with everybody driving so much.

      I’m not sure if this is true, but I’ve been told that Brampton (a suburb of Toronto for those not from around here) has the highest insurance rates in Canada with “downtown” Brampton being the single most expensive place. Some people blame this on the large immigrant population, but I’m reluctant to accept this without some good evidence.

      Saskatchewan, btw, has the best insurance in the country, cheaper than the national average by 50%. They accomplished this by having a crown corporation do all auto insurance, and legislating against suing for extra damages.

      • 0 avatar
        onyxtape

        “Some people blame this on the large immigrant population, but I’m reluctant to accept this without some good evidence.”

        Talk to second generation, say, Indians or Chinese and they can tell you that their parents and their friends cannot drive. It’s not really their fault as they most likely grew up in crowded cities with great public transpo and no need for cars (e.g. Hong Kong). So with the inexperience comes higher insurance rates. It’s not a “fair” thing to say, but there’s probably a lot of fire within that smoke.

      • 0 avatar
        CanuckGreg

        Sask insurance rates are “cheap” because safe drivers grossly subsidize risky ones. Unless they’ve changed the scheme in recent years, insurance rates in Sask are based solely on the vehicle, with the owner/driver paying a small surcharge on their annual drivers license renewal fee for accidents, speeding tickets, etc. With Sask’s tiny population and endless empty roads, older (safer) drivers in Buicks and Camrys should pay a fraction of what they do, while 18 year old boys in Mustangs and JDM spec Skylines get by paying a tiny chunk of the real cost of insuring them.

        Auto insurance in Saskatchewan is a wealth re-distribution program, tranferring money from older, wealthier driver to younger ones.

  • avatar
    Slab

    Your zip code (or whatever it’s called in Canada) has as much to do with your insurance rates as anything else. I’m 53, haven’t had a ticket in 20 some years, and drive a 7 year old SUV less than 10,000 miles a year. My car insurance is bundled with my homeowners insurance. My rates are still high. I live in an area with historically high car theft rates. They’re lower now, but insurance companies are slow to change.

  • avatar
    Marko

    In my state (MA), a Camaro doesn’t really cost more than a CamCord to insure. A Mustang is slightly more, but I think that’s because the Mustang’s safety ratings aren’t quite as good.

    The WRX whose insurance rates I hear about everywhere is actually cheaper to insure than a base Impreza!

    (All of this is according to MSN Autos.)

  • avatar
    shawa1221

    I am 27 have always lived in Ontario and pay $130 a month for a 1999 Civic CDN Si (EX for you South of the border)
    My record is CLEAN.

    Its not the coolest newest car, but if I had the money I could drop in a B series VTEC engine or Turbo the D16Y8 VTEC that is in it already. With some suspension upgrades I would have a cheap , fun, car. Wrong wheel drive but still fun.

    It is all about “hot rodding”

    most young guys in the 50s and 60s never had tons of cash to go out and buy a Fuelie 57′ Chevy , 409 ss impala, or a Z28 Camaro. Around here if they did it was because they belonged to a family that farmed Tobbaco.

    I do feel for responsible young people who want to have a NEW(ER) performance car. $300-$500 is a bit excessive.

  • avatar
    jz78817

    I’ve never been able to figure out insurance rates. I own an old SRT-4 and a new Mustang GT. For some reason the premiums on the Mustang are lower even though it’s a much faster car.

    • 0 avatar
      Marko

      I think there are two reasons:

      1.) The Mustang has better crash-test results.
      2.) Look around some other car forums, and you will find that a lot of “bad apples” were attracted to the SRT-4.

  • avatar
    obbop

    Disgruntled Old Coot proclaims that until the children attain a respectable level of emotional maturity and respect for others that the young hooligans be limited to perhaps a mad horsepower of 90 or so and to readily grab their driver’s license for lengthy periods if the miscreants drive an an anti-social manner.

    Yeah.

  • avatar
    obbop

    Disgruntled Old Coot proclaims that until the children attain a respectable level of emotional maturity and respect for others that the young hooligans be limited to perhaps a max horsepower of 90 or so and to readily grab their driver’s license for lengthy periods if the miscreants drive an an anti-social manner.

    Yeah.

  • avatar
    APaGttH

    I know this won’t be popular, but back in the day to make the Nissan 240SX “insurance” friendly Nissan computer controlled the top speed at a very low threshold. Computer controlled top speeds wasn’t brand new during this era but was a pretty new concept.

    Ya, I know, setting the top speed at 108 MPH or even 98 MPH as some vehicles in the states are would be “lame,” but it would make the bean counters at State Farm happy.

  • avatar
    tonyola

    I remember having to pay higher insurance for the Honda CRX I bought new in 1984, even though I was over 25 and had a good record. It didn’t matter that the little car had only 76 hp – two seats equalled “sports car”.

  • avatar
    ciddyguy

    When I added my 2003 Mazda Protege5 to my insurance, my rates only went up a mere $20 a month or something like that – and it’s a much newer vehicle than the Ford Ranger that I was replacing (’92) and I have full coverage on it, due to the demands of my loan agreement.

    I pay $494.93 for 6 months of coverage on JUST the Mazda, which breaks down to around $82 a month if I’m not mistaken.

    True, I also have my renter’s insurance as well and both were purchased through USAA and I live in Washington St where car insurance rates tend to be a little higher IIRC.

    • 0 avatar
      MBella

      When GM tested their free insurance program it was in Washington State and Oregon because they have the cheapest auto rates in the country.

      • 0 avatar
        onyxtape

        They do, don’t they? Just replaced a 7-year old Corolla with a brand new Infiniti G37. My rates increased by $6/month for full coverage in WA state. I suppose it helps that I’m over 30. Rates will probably continue to drop until my kids turn 15.

  • avatar
    robc123

    midlife crisis, I am kind of liking the new boxster- I laugh at the midlife crisis thing. But I gotta go for a jog then boff the secretary.

  • avatar

    I pay $148 a month for full coverage (19 years old, no tickets, no accidents, in NC) on my 1998 Subaru Legacy GT. My insurance agent said it was only because I live on the west side of Charlotte, and car thefts, and vandalism are much higher in this area. Yet I don’t feel ripped off…

    • 0 avatar
      PaulVincent

      Why don’t you ask your agent what you’ll get if your Legacy GT is totaled out. If the figure is as low as I think it will be, you then might be somewhat upset with your premiums.

    • 0 avatar
      Spartan

      West Charlotte, you should move. I lived in the South Park area during my tenure in Charlotte, and while I may have spent more on living costs, I’m sure my insurance savings made up for living anywhere near Freedom Drive or West Boulevard.

      • 0 avatar

        I live in Coulwood which I find to be pretty much the nicest area of West Charlotte, the messed up part is when you leave Coulwood and see the foreclosed, boarded up homes with grass-less yards. To be honest every time I leave my neighborhood I’m more likely to have to file a claim with my insurance for my cars getting shot at than a total loss claim. And plus, the South Park area doesn’t like my kind too much. But I am moving to Corneilius soon which should help with my premiums for sure, plus I’ll probably be safer in general…

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      $148 a month for a 14 year old Subbie is CRIMINAL.

      • 0 avatar

        Tell me about it…

      • 0 avatar
        240SX_KAT

        Ha. I’m paying ~120/month for a ’93 240sx here in Vancouver. No accidents, no tickets and thats AFTER the 40% ‘Road Star’ discount.
        Back closer to my youth in New Jersey they wanted over 4K A YEAR for full coverage! That also was with no accidents or tickets. I paid $13200 for the car brand new back in ’91. Including depreciation I think they expected me to total the car every other year.

  • avatar
    chicagoland

    Car fans are always complaining about lack of new 2 doors, well of the Top 10 Reasons why, #1 through 10 are insurance costs!

    Even if one buys a base Civic coupe, to Big Ins underwriters, it’s a ‘sports car’ that will get wrecked or stolen. Why is the new Charger/WRX/EVO/Focus ST a 4 door? To ammotize the costs with average 4 door drivers cars.

    The casual car fans look at pics of new sport sedans and go ‘too many doors’, then drive off in their pickups. But if they’d check insurance costs, they’d see the reasons.

    Muscle cars died off in 1972 mainly from ins. costs, not because the Big 3 “wimped out”. It’s all the hot headed boys [a few young ladies] playing around and driving poorly, and ruining it far true car fans.

    • 0 avatar
      mnm4ever

      Thats not true, 2-dr vs, 4-dr doesnt mean anything these days. Maybe back in the 60s when insurance was written by a guy sitting in the office down the street, but now it is all data and statistics and numbers. A Honda Civic has pretty high rates because they are loved by the Fast and Furious wannabes and they wreck them a lot. High number of claims = high insurance. If you compare a 2-door Hyundai Accent to a 4-dr Hyundai Accent, both are equally cheap. The insurance companies are smart enough to know that a 4-dr WRX or Mazdaspeed3 is a fast car that young people like to race and wreck. Corvettes are cheaper to insure than Mustangs because more Vettes are driven by mature guys who dont race or wreck as much. Muscle cars died in 1972 because they were slow and thirsty thanks to smog equipment and the Big 3 turning out oversized underpowered turds instead of the sweet 60s muscle cars.

      4-door cars sell better to the “normal” buyer because they are more practical, and making a dedicated coupe performance model that will sell in small numbers doesn’t make financial sense.

  • avatar
    seanx37

    How many people under 25 can afford a new $25-30 thousand dollar car these days? A few hundred? Toyota isn’t going the sell these cars to them. Their parents perhaps.

  • avatar
    Alexdi

    I’d be interested to know what ‘full coverage’ means from those quoting insurance numbers. I pay something like $1650 a year for the highest limits my company offers and $500 deductibles. I have no idea if that’s good, I just know that Progressive wants a lot more for the same.

    I fully expect the BRZ to come with very high numbers. The only people interested in it are leadfoots.

  • avatar
    RGS920

    I think we’re really looking at the Scion FRS and Subaru BRZ in the vacuum of car websites and enthusiasts. Not one of my friends or people at work know what a Scion FRS or Subaru BRZ is. How many non-car people know about this car? There are about 1500 Toyota dealerships and 700 subaru dealerships in the U.S. The sales guy at the Toyota dealership didn’t even know what the FRS was when I came in about a month and a half ago and put down a deposit. He had to call his “contact” guy at Scion to find out what it was and the price even though they had released pricing on the Scion FRS that day. Even if each Toyota dealership and Subaru dealership get allotted 3 each, that’s a total sales figure of 6200 this year. Put that in perspective, Ford sold over 70,000 mustangs in the U.S. last year.

    Really, I am more worried about the 18 year olds driving a 400+ HP Mustang or Camaro that daddy bought them than the handful of people under 25 who are lucky enough to get an FRS or BRZ. 200 HP in a car that communicates with the driver about when you are going over the limit sounds much safer than handing someone with only a few years driving experience the keys to a car that makes more power than a Ferrari 360 Modena.

    Also, how can you complain about people under 25 buying a relatively underpowered sports car when your first car was a Mazda Miata… in Canada of all places! Don’t you think that is a little like the pot calling the kettle black?

    • 0 avatar
      steeringwithmyknees

      I Think you’ve got a point there about the HP numbers. it seems like a lot of the people driving up insurance costs would choose some car with a ton of brute speed vs. a car that costs the same but has less horsepower.

  • avatar
    bumpy ii

    Am I the only one who pays for car insurance biannually? I suppose I could sit down and figure out the $$$ per month cost for each vehicle, but I just send in a check twice a year.

    • 0 avatar
      CJinSD

      I pay twice a year too. If I wanted to play by the month, the price would be $78 a month instead of $353 for 6 months. That means paying monthly would total $862 a year instead of $706. Usury?

      • 0 avatar
        sastexan

        I too pay twice a year because it saves major cash. In the category of insurance companies calculating risk and claims, they note that those who pay monthly are more likely to have claims plus are more likely to let coverage lapse and get into protracted legal battles about the insurance company’s liability.

  • avatar
    ckb

    Death of the muscle car? Off the top of my head, I can name 10 manufacturers with at least one 500+ HP car in their current lineup! Or does the car also have to be cheap enough to buy with a summer job at the beach to qualify?

    Despite gas prices, a fair amount of stories on TTAC lean more towards the death of the hybrid/electric car…

    • 0 avatar

      I read “the death of the muscle car” as a historical reference to the muscle cars of the late 1960s and early 1970s. Engines like the 426 Hemi and other big block performance engines were deliberately underrated by the factories so buyers could insure them.

  • avatar
    Sam P

    Most under-25s won’t be able to afford a BRZ or FR-S unless their parents purchase one for them, with the US economy the way it is – even with stupid financing.

  • avatar
    RyleyinSTL

    American’s bash “leftism” but when I was a younger person in Saskatchewan (a place more liberal then Ontario – ironically) the Crown took care of the insurance and my V8 sporty ride hardly cost me any more then it would have cost my parents to insure. The Government waited until you started having accidents to charge you more money. Sure all the tax payers subsidized the system but the upside was affordable driving for all.

  • avatar
    CJinSD

    From everything I’ve read on the forums and blogs, these cars aren’t appealing to the sort of people that stigmatize cars in the eyes of insurance companies. All the street racers and wannabe street racers are obsessed with Mustangs, WRXs, and Genesises in this price range. The BRZ and FR-S may be left for grown ups and daddy’s girls, which might keep it off the surcharge lists.

    • 0 avatar
      Quentin

      I’m OK with this. It is easy to find a used, stock Miata for low teens from ’06 with low mileage thanks to that kind of buyer. To me, this is a non-convertible Miata with an extra 40hp and far sexier looks. Win.

  • avatar

    My X-Girlfriend bought a Nissan Maxima 2006 cash down for $10,000. She is 2 years older than me (32) and a first time driver.

    Would any of you believe me if I told you they hit her for $650 A MONTH and it took 2 years to come down to her current $350 a month???

    Geico wanted MORE. LOL

    • 0 avatar
      TEXN3

      Time to find a better insurance company, heard all it takes is 15 minutes.

      I gotta be honest man, we’re the same age but you’ve got a very impressive fleet! I guess I should have chosen better than being an engineer in the utility sector.

    • 0 avatar
      Toad

      NYC rates are not extortion; NYC (like most major metropolitan areas) vehicles get stolen, broken into, and damaged at much higher rates than suburban and rural vehicles. Car theft is rarely investigated and professional thieves (and the chop shops/exporters they work with) know they can steal cars almost with impunity. Close quarters and high congestion produce lots of damages, and huge swaths of people driving are uninsured, adding to the bill.

      Life in the big city is expensive, but the cost of insurance should not be surprising for somebody who is smart enough to teach physics.

      • 0 avatar
        tallnikita

        Actually the reason for NYC rates is the profound personal injury business thriving here where the most minor incident is completely blown out of proportion by plaintiffs who have to get past the $50K no-fault barrier.

  • avatar
    Campisi

    As a twenty-five-year-old male, I’d rather have an MX-5 than one of these; roofs are for pansies, and boy-racer idiots leave you in peace to enjoy your little slice of dynamic paradise. That said, I’m a twenty-five-year-old American, which means anything with four wheels made in the last ten years is either out of my financial league or deeply uninteresting.

  • avatar
    Charliej

    I currently pay $358.00 per year for complete coverage on a 2005 PT Cruiser. Costs are low in Mexico because there is no punitive damage. If you sue, the most you can collect is actual damages. Also, if you are on a toll road here, the tolls pay for insurance while you are on the toll road. If you are in an accident on a toll road the insurance pays for everything, car repair to medical care. Very much unlike the US. No trolling lawyers commercials on TV. What’s not to like.

  • avatar
    alluster

    Can’t wait to buy one and install a 4 foot wing and a loud muffler to make the car go faster. $27,000 for 200 horsepower, ricer looks, and tires right off a Prius? Makes me wanna run to the nearest scion dealer and scream, “SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!!!”

    Seriously guys, if you have 27 large lying around, get yourself a new Charger. 100 more HP and masculine looks aside, it will be thousand times the “Man” car a Scion will ever be.

    • 0 avatar
      mnm4ever

      Haha yea 100 more HP and 1200 more pounds too. The only thing a $27k Charger screams is rental car.

    • 0 avatar
      240SX_KAT

      After getting one as a rental, I’d rather walk then pay money for a Charger. It’s like driving from inside a cheaply made cave.

    • 0 avatar
      Quentin

      I have a wife and kid for which I provide very well. Why does my car need to proclaim that I’m a man?

      Charger? lol No thanks. You can keep your machete… I prefer a scalpel. I’ll keep it stock, btw. I don’t need to proclaim or compensate for my virility.

    • 0 avatar
      JustinM

      Looks like you’re playing the pointlessly hypermasculine role Baruth wrote about quite well in the Lamborghini piece a while back. Keep it up. The rest of us can then be ourselves, free of having to worry about what others think of us.

  • avatar
    spaceywilly

    I’m 24 and I have a pre-order on a BRZ. I currently drive a 2002 WRX that I pay $73/month to insure, and that’s with a low deductible. I guess it’s a regional thing? I expect my insurance costs to be higher for the BRZ but not that much higher. For me the gas savings from commuting in the BRZ will cancel it out.

  • avatar
    Scott_314

    I’m 33 and I want one so bad it hurts. Either one.

  • avatar
    DenverMike

    I’m not clear why insurance is so crazy in Canada, but I thought insurance rates in the US were outrages. Maybe not, but the cheapest full coverage on a new 5.0 Mustang in ’88 was $500 a month. That’s an honest $1,000 today and I had a perfect record. OK, I was only 20, but because I paid cash for the car, I went with straight liability and saved enough to replace it with a new 5.0 in two years.

  • avatar
    WRC555

    “I called my insurer to get a quote on the BRZ/FR-S for this article. They didn’t even have it in their database yet.”

    I remember talking to the insurance agent after pre-ordering the 2002 WRX. The insurance agent used the base Impreza 2.5L N.A. sedan rates. After a year, however, premimum more than doubled. Probably from all the crash claims by young drivers. :)

    I foresee the same thing happen to the new ’86.

  • avatar
    Reino

    If you are under 25 and buying a NEW car, you’re already an idiot. How are your retirement investments? Have you bought a house or condo yet? These are two crucial things a young person must have before even thinking about a new car.

    I’m 31 and have owned plenty of sports cars–none bought with less than 70k miles and more than $12,000.

    (BYW, a little known fact is that Corvettes are cheaper to insure than Mustangs/Camaros, because the pool is full of geezers.)


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