By on September 22, 2021

Ford

It’s become something of a mantra for me, lately, but that doesn’t make it any less true. It goes like this: Electric cars aren’t coming, they’re already here. And, depending on who you ask, they’ve been here – they just haven’t quite made it into the mainstream, yet. With the dawn of the Rivian R1T (which became the first full-size electric pickup to reach series production earlier this month), though, a lot of people would have you believe that’s set to change. I happen to be one of them.

The light-truck market in the U.S. is unimaginably huge. Consider that 14.5 million new vehicles were sold in the U.S. Of those, 11 (eleven) million were light trucks. As such, calling an electric truck “a big deal” hardly seems fair. In terms of mass-market adoption, it’s the deal. Still, such a development isn’t the only deal, and just as the Dodge Viper was built not to sell Vipers but to sell Neons, there’s a lot more to this nebulous thing we call “influence” than might be apparent at first glance.

As such, I’d like to give you my take on the most influential EVs of today, starting not with the Rivian R1T, but with what is likely to be its biggest, baddest, and boldest market competitor: The Ford F-150 Lightning electric pickup.

FORD F-150 LIGHTNING

The Rivian is neat, sure. It seems capable enough, looks good, and is backed by the mighty wallet of Jeff Bezos, himself. All of that is true, but the people behind Rivian only dream of approaching the success of the Ford F-series trucks, and even then, they do so only in their most secret, private thoughts. The Ford F-series is, far and away, the most successful product in America’s automotive history, claiming the top sales spot almost every year since its introduction. According to the Detroit Free Press, the F-series generated some $42 billion (with a b), which was more revenue than the National Football League, Major League Baseball, National Basketball Association, and National Hockey League made combined in 2019 (the last year of data that could be considered “normal”).

“All by itself,” wrote the Freep’s Phoebe Wall Howard, “the F-series full-size pickup truck franchise within Ford Motor Company is so big that it would make the list of Fortune 100 companies.”

If you’re wondering, the F-series would sit 80th on that list, ahead of industry icons like Nike, Coca-Cola, Starbucks, MasterCard, Netflix, VISA, Uber, and CapitalOne. That’s – it’s a lot, and it is impossible to overstate what the continued success of Ford’s full-size pickup means not only to Ford, but to the UAW workers who assemble it, the suppliers who make parts for it, and the politicians who will do anything to get their votes.

All of which is to say that Ford is not going to get the Lightning wrong. You can see the evidence of that already, in the fact that their first-ever hybrid F-series didn’t treat electrification as a means to greenwash their most crucial product, but as a way to make it better, more capable, and more suited to the needs of the people who are buying it today. Ford is meeting its end-users where they are, in other words, with some PowerBoost buyers driving home a truck they may not even realize is a hybrid.

When you consider that the new F-150 Lightning will very likely be able to go toe-to-toe with the Rivian, spec-wise, while starting at around $30,000 less than the R1T Launch Edition, it’s hard to make a case against the Ford coming out ahead … and whoever wins with electric truck war will, 100 percent, win the race to bring EVs to mainstream America, but it took someone else to get Ford to take the leap into electric in the first place, and that was Elon Musk.

TESLA MODEL S

You can’t have a conversation about electric cars without mentioning Tesla. Not a credible one, anyway, and holy shit did Elon Musk build a credible product in the Model S.

When the Model S made its debut way back in 2012, it seemed easy enough to dismiss. It was expensive, shoddily built, delayed again and again, and pitched by the PayPal guy who seemed to somehow have more hair now than he did in his twenties.

That’s how it seemed to me, anyway. I didn’t think much of Musk or the Model S back then, being more focused on the Nissan GT-R and its VR38TT engine than anything else. We were out at Milan Dragway trying to dial in a particularly stubborn 2014 R35 (the 2014s had a different firmware that, initially, made them difficult to tune properly), and generally having a good time. There was a Model S there, too. The owner had driven it out to the track and was checking out some of the other cars there for a while before he decided to try his car on the track.

I don’t remember the exact time he ran, but I do know that our jaws dropped. We’d seen Teslas drag race other cars on YouTube, sure – but it was a whole other thing to see this silent killer put down a pass with nothing but tire noise in the air. Then he smiled, waved, and drove home.

We sat in the trailer afterward, quiet. After a few minutes, Tym Switzer (Jr.) started asking about electric hub motors and we talked about putting them in the front wheels, but nothing really came of that but napkin sketches. That was the day I became a beliEVer. Electric was the future, and I felt like the cars were only going to get faster from there. For the most part, they have, and companies like Lucid and Kia have followed in the footsteps of the Model S by making drag strip prowess a key component of their EV marketing stories in the years since – but Tesla did it first.

And, if you want someone to think of your car as fast in 2021, you’ll have to line it up against a Tesla, sooner or later.

CHEVROLET BOLT

There are more ways to influence markets than dominating them. And, frankly, sometimes you have to look in the mirror and realize that your purpose in life may be to serve as a warning to others. For the Chevy Bolt, at least, it’s starting to look like that may be the case.

I’ve heard it argued that the Chevy Bolt was more of an example of GM’s sourcing and supply line strength than it was a fully conceived product, and it’s hard to argue against that. I mean, I can’t name a single GM-built hatchback that could be considered a market success in my lifetime, but the Bolt? The car that was seen as a response to the highly publicized Tesla Model 3 and prove to everyone on Wall Street that GM had its head in the game? They decided to make it a hatchback.

Despite the efforts of its massive PR department and the marketing power of some three-thousand nationwide Chevrolet dealers, GM sold fewer than 80,000 Bolts in the US (110,000, globally) between its launch in 2017 and the close of 2020. In contrast, Tesla has sold over one million Model 3 sedans, globally – and that with a higher price tag than the Chevy, and notably without a dedicated PR department, zero dealers, and the fact that sedans aren’t exactly lighting up showroom floors these days, either.

Then the fires happened. Not many, of course (just 13, at last count). Not enough fires, at least, to really worry the people who understood that sitting on top of thirty gallons of flammable liquid isn’t statistically safer than sitting on a semi-explosive battery – but there doesn’t seem to be that many of us, does it?

Worse, if GM’s massive battery recall has been perceived as a black eye to the EV industry as a whole, it’s even worse for Bolt owners. Anecdotally, I’ve been told of charging stations and parking lots posting signs that read “No Chevy Bolts”, and have heard of people being told by dealers that they won’t accept Bolts on trade, or will take the Bolt, but for thousands less than “book value”.

Electric car buyers will likely think twice before buying an EV from GM in the future, and that’s going to hurt Chevy dealers, sure – but it’s going to hurt Cadillac, GMC, and Buick dealers, too, as their EVs start to come to market. You can be sure that Ford, Stellantis, Toyota, Honda, and literally everyone else in the industry is watching closely as GM’s ongoing Bolt disaster unfolds in real-time, and they’re sure to be making moves to ensure that it doesn’t happen to them.

It doesn’t get more influential than that.

HONORABLE MENTION – LIVEWIRE ONE

I know motorcycles don’t generally play well on TTAC, but hear me out – because the entire automotive industry is paying attention to what’s happening at Harley-Davidson and Livewire right now, and if you’re not, then you’re falling behind.

Originally launched in 2019 as a Harley-Davidson, the Livewire was a mid-priced, UJM-style motorcycle that the Motor Company believed could bring in new customers from other brands while giving H-D’s “core buyers” a modern, sporty, and potentially collectible motorcycle (and, yes – for Harley, $30,000 is mid-priced). What happened was not that.

Almost immediately, the majority of H-D’s “core buyers” reacted negatively to the bike. I overheard more than one leather-clad gentleman call it “socialist bullshit” and “gay” and vow to never buy another new Harley from a Livewire dealer – which was bad news for me, because I was a Livewire dealer! Worse, we’d signed on to carry the Motor Company’s upcoming line of e-bikes and scooters, too, and I could only imagine what those guys would say about that.

In the end, Harley-Davidson ended up with a new CEO, who promptly split the company into three parts: Harley-Davison, for “traditional” ICE motorcycles, Serial 1, for e-bicycles and scooters, and Livewire, for high-powered electric motorcycles. By doing so, they effectively began writing Harley-Davidson’s epitaph, because they won’t be able to sell an ICE-powered Harley in ZEV states after 2035, and the number of ZEV states is only growing.

To spell it out completely: If there are no sales, there is no Motor Company.

Why should the four-wheeled universe care? Because this question of how to present electric vehicles is one that car companies are struggling with themselves. That’s why there’s a Polestar 1 and not a Volvo C90 T8 Recharge. That’s why there’s an electric crossover wearing a Mustang nameplate. That’s why there’s an electric GMC Hummer coming, too, and why bringing back the Saturn brand is probably an actual option that’s being discussed right now in some quiet, glass-walled corner of the Ren Cen.

It’s a mistake to assume that every legacy auto brand is going to make it through the transition from petroleum to electric fuels, and it may not matter how good their product is or how established the brand. It may just be that the story they’ve been telling isn’t one that needs to be told in the electrified future, and that is something that every carmaker will have to find out sooner rather than later.

[Image: Ford, Tesla, Chevrolet]

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39 Comments on “Opinion: These Are the Most Influential EVs of the Moment...”


  • avatar
    Lou_BC

    Brilliant example with Harley Davidson and the LiveWire. Harley sums up the mindset of many boomer’s. We are trapped in a static mindset partially fueled by a fantasy where we’ve convinced ourselves that the “good ol’ days” is the “end all be all” of existence instead of working on building a sustainable future for our children. Their “good ol’ days” are to come and shouldn’t be constrained by our selfishness.

    • 0 avatar
      Stanley Steamer

      Their good ol’ days probably won’t be so good. We’ve been having too much fun.

    • 0 avatar
      Syke

      We don’t have a clue as to what the upcoming “good old days” are, and whatever guesses we’re making are most likely wrong. Technology is still changing rapidly enough that no one here is keeping up, and any attempts to extrapolate what we currently know into what is to be is probably going to be laughably shortsighted, as we insist on keeping favorite memories intact and insisting that some version of them will continue in the future.

      You want a nice indication? Let’s just drop back fifteen years. My idea of a car was four cylinders, five speeds, and maybe thirty miles per gallon. Electric cars? Yeah, they were an upcoming thing, hell I had driven one regularly thirty years earlier, but they still weren’t anything you could use day to day. Right now, you’ll pry my Bolt from my cold dead fingers . . . . . and I have absolutely no interest in an ICE powered car for day to day use. Stick your Hemi. I consider it loud and annoying.

      My power tools all had cords, and in some cases needed long annoying extension cords. Now, just about everything is on Ryobi battery packs (there’s still one or two corded ones that haven’t worn out yet), and I’ve got chargers in the house, garage, and all three outbuildings on the property.

      I was doing historical reenactment in the summer wearing wool uniforms year round. With the hobby shut down last year, I spent the year in the sewing room replacing all the wool coats and breeches with linen, because I don’t feel like dropping the heatstroke on and nice weekends afternoon, nine months of the year.

      Yeah, I had a cellphone back then, but if anyone had told me that it would be interlinked with a tablet, laptop and desktop, allowing me to pull up any spreadsheets I’m doing on my phone ten seconds after I’d revised it on the desktop, I would have smiled and said, “Nice dream.”

      The usual look at the future is pretty dystopian, mainly because we can’t visualize any technology correcting the situation other than what we have in front of us right now. And right now isn’t going to fix the future painlessly. Don’t know about you, but I’m willing to bet someone figures up a necessary technological advance. Humans, and society in general, is pretty addicted to everything being fixed painlessly. They’re not about to change their preferences.

    • 0 avatar
      golden2husky

      The classic ignorant statement by that Harley rider has an important lesson in it. No, not that he is almost certainly a diabetes-riddeled coot with no critical thinking skills, but the message has to match the intended audience. Ford knew that with the F 150 and marketed the electric version accordingly….

      • 0 avatar

        The message has to resonate with the audience, yes– but consider, too, that the audience may not be open to TWO messages. I think that’s the problem Harley faced, and Ford seems to have learned from. Volvo, too, for that matter. Safety? Volvo. Safety AND performance? That’s confusing. Safety? Volvo. Performance? Polestar.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @Jo Borrás – messaging and packaging of a product based on audience is important. People’s association to products is surprisingly rather narrow.

          @golden2husky – I’ve always gone out of my away to correct people when they call me a “biker”. Yes, I ride motorcycles BUT I’m a rider not a biker. That then requires an explanation. I’ll chose my rides based upon function. That’s the same for my riding gear. Any time I’ve been involved in racing, we have “riders” meetings not “bikers” meetings.
          A biker on the other hand choses form over function and despite the attempt at oozing “rebel”, they are stuck in a rather narrow and well defined set of parameters.

  • avatar
    jalop1991

    “Electric cars aren’t coming, they’re already here.”

    So are electric bicycles and TikTok. That doesn’t make them meaningful.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    No mention of the Nissan Leaf, 2011 – 2022?

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      Its influence has faded almost completely, but at least it earned its place in modern EV history.

      The Model S mainstreamed cool EVs, but it’s a bit player in Tesla’s lineup now, except for the Plaid flagship. In a sense, it’s kind of like the Leaf, except the Leaf doesn’t have ‘Ring and dragstrip videos.

      • 0 avatar
        Syke

        Plus the Leaf had technological-by-design flaws (air cooled battery pack) that is already recognized as a dead end. GM can be blamed for production shortcomings, something that can, and hopefully will, be corrected by this recall. Nissan, on the other hand took a bet on a technology that works, but not necessarily well in the long term. Just look at all the articles on how to buy a used Leaf, the aftermarket products to tell you if the battery is any good.

        The Leaf had it’s moment, but it’s primary importance was in being the first commercially available EV that you didn’t have to be wealthy to own. And that’s common now.

    • 0 avatar

      No. I don’t think Nissan got anything right with the LEAF (that’s their branding, not my yelling). They pitched it as an environmental/efficiency play, and efficiency has never sold in big numbers. It couldn’t even out-green the Prius in terms of influence, and was always fighting upstream. Heck, they gave up on V2G right as Texas proved its worth and Ford jumped in to establish themselves in the press as *THE* V2G electric car. No one remembers that Nissan did it first, because it wasn’t influential.

  • avatar
    indi500fan

    I’m reading stories where a veteran Tesla with a supposed 20 grand wholesale value needs a 20 grand replacement battery in old age. At least the aluminum body/chassis should have good scrap value.

    • 0 avatar
      Syke

      How many years is old age? Assuming it’s not now yet, do we have hard and fast figures on what those replacement cells are costing on the day the work has to be done? Your comment is rather nebulous.

    • 0 avatar
      mcs

      indi500fan: “I’m reading stories where a veteran Tesla with a supposed 20 grand wholesale value needs a 20 grand replacement battery in old age. At least the aluminum body/chassis should have good scrap value.”

      Except, you’re leaving out the important part of the story. That particular Tesla was taken to an independent and repaired for $5k and is back on the road.

  • avatar
    haze3

    Nice article.

    Dead-on with the Lightning. There are plenty of use cases where that truck will not win (e.g. even occasional long towing) but where it wins, it wins by a lot due to purely pragmatic engineering and features. Fleets and contractors are going to love that machine.

    In the moment, I don’t get the S over the 3. The 3 is a major sales success, literally ubiquitous on the roads. It’s not as cheap or, in many ways, as good as the Teslarati claim but it’s numbers have converted Tesla from ingenue to star. They can build at volume and not fail… it’s a real company.

    Totally agree on the Bolt, but I’m not as negative about it. Very pragmatic effort that was needed to prove that traditional car makers can compete with a practical offering. Yes, it’s taking a “battering” over the fires (serious but not actually very frequent) but nothing happens without some challenges. H/K and others may actually win the EV-for-the-people switch but the Bolt was a more useful effort than the premium Teslas or the Mach-E, IMO.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    The Car Wizard bought a 2013 Nissan Leaf and plans on replacing the battery.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96jWl1qL8Gc&ab_channel=CarWizard

  • avatar
    dal20402

    These are the electric vehicles that matter right now:

    (1) The Lightning. This is the single most important EV introduction to date and its success or failure will tell us more than any other single data point about how the EV transition will go. Ford better get this one perfect (as, to be fair, it usually does with the gas F-150, if not any of its other products). A good Lightning will mostly take care of the mouth-breathing “hurrrrrrr that’s GAY” stereotype you mention above and it will expose every audience in America to daily life with EVs, which is different than most people who’ve only owned gas cars think.

    (2) The Hyundai Ioniq 5/Kia EV6/Genesis GV60. The midsize crossover segment is the heart of the non-pickup market and this is the first serious attempt at the heart of it from a mainstream brand. (I mean, maybe you can count the VW ID.4, but it’s more of a Europe-centered product; VW is really an alternative brand in the US market.) If H/K can sell these things, that’s another good sign for the transition to EVs.

    (3) The forthcoming Explorer EV. Packaging and usage make the three-row crossover a very hard thing to electrify. The only real attempt to date is the Model X, which landed way too far upmarket. Every inch of space is already accounted for, and people use them to travel long distances with heavy payloads. If Ford can make the Explorer EV into a product people want, that will be an engineering and design win that will translate into better products in other segments too.

    Other products appearing in these three segments may have similar impact, but these IMO are absolutely the most important three segments in the near term for EVs.

    • 0 avatar
      random1

      I think you’re wrong about the ID.4 (albeit I’m a bit of a VW fanboy). I just rented an ID.3 for a week in Europe, and it’s just really competent. And the ID.4 here is cheap, after incentives. It’s in a much more accessible price range than the H/K will be. It’s glaring flaw is performance. Even so, acceleration is on par with the ICE alternatives in a similar price range. They’re trying to make the EV a “regular” car, that you fuel differently. Avoiding the whiz-bang features of pricier alternatives. So an important car to see how that approach goes.

      The upcoming Ariya falls into the category with H/K as well. Looks like it might be very good.

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    A) “it is impossible to overstate what the continued success of Ford’s full-size pickup means…”

    B) “All of which is to say that Ford is not going to get the Lightning wrong.”

    So because it is important, they will get it right. This is interesting logic. (Interesting as in highly questionable.)

    More specifically: Because ICE pickups are important to Ford Motor Company, they will not make any mistakes with EV pickups. (Highly highly questionable logic.)

    Possibly related:
    https://www.technologyreview.com/2011/12/09/189254/you-press-the-button-kodak-used-to-do-the-rest/

    Anyway, the whole premise is incorrect. Ford could completely screw up the Lightning and still be just fine (for now).

    This memo just handed me from Captain Obvious points out that first shipments of the F-150 Lightning are scheduled for Spring of 2022. Mustang Mach-E would arguably be a better choice for most influential EV “of the moment.”

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    The Lightning is the truck to watch. If Ford gets it right it will keep Ford as Number 1 in trucks, if Ford gets it wrong it could eventually lead to Ford losing their top spot. My guess and hope is Ford succeeds.

    Cadillac Lyriq is important because it could be a make or break vehicle for Cadillac who has lost their status as the “World Standard” for luxury. Cadillac has a bigger hurdle to overcome with GMs battery issues with the Volt. Cadillac needs to rebuild their reputation and a really good EV crossover would be a good start.

    VW has an opportunity to overcome the diesel gate and their less than stellar reputation with some really good EVs. The EV Microbus if priced competitively along with a new EV Beetle, a competitively priced EV crossover, and a compact EV pickup (maybe a joint venture with Ford to share the new Maverick).

    Hyundai and Kia should do well with EVs.

    Hopefully Honda has few problems with sharing GMs EV platform.

    Toyota could be the one to watch when they release their solid state batteries.

  • avatar
    EBFlex

    The Ford CyberTruck is an embarrassingly bad example of an EV that’s upcoming and important.

    Ford has no idea what they are doing (as evidenced by the low range, long recharge times, and exorbitant price). This is the same company that failed to produce a working roof for what was one of their most important and most anticipated products ever launched.

    And they botched so incredibly bad after severely botching and other vehicle launch in the pathetic 2020 Explorer.

    Ford has seen a large increase in quality issues that plague the F150 in recent refreshes so to say that the Non-lightning will be done right is a huge assumption. They didn’t get the Mach Escape right and dealers tell customers they can’t fix their non-Mustang. On top of that you have range figures that are going to tank when using the vehicle for its intended purpose and a charging network that is laughably bad.

    Ford once again is being let down by their third world engineers and it is so blatantly obvious.

  • avatar

    The livewire thing is Funny. HD really does have a problem with its customers. Many HD customers still hate the V-rod 2 decades after it’s introduction and 4 years after it was canceled. And all that one did was add water cooling. They also really hate the Panamerica (my god the hate for that thing online is incredible), but that is selling well, my local dealer ( I know several people who work there) has sold several this summer. Noticeably this dealer is not a livewire dealer.
    The thing that gets me is that HD caters 90% of their products to the core owners group, and never threatens to replace them and people still get upset about it.
    Imagine if all the silverado owners freaked out when chevy launched the Bolt, that’s essentially what we have here.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @mopar4wd – HD is a victim of their own success. Part of that success was to brand everything into a lifestyle package. The whole “live to ride, ride to live” became a one stop self-fulfillment package. That will kill HD since it is next to impossible to expand beyond the bubble they created.

      All of the other bike makers have been killing off cruiser models because no one wants them. Indian’s #1 selling bike is the FTR which is a compact streetfighter “naked” bike. The Japanese #1 streetbikes are also “streetfighters”. Ducati’s #1 bike is the Diavel which is a blend between cruiser and streetfighter. Everyone else tends to specialize in a combination of adventure bikes or streetfighters. KTM is a prime example.

      • 0 avatar

        When I was a kid and my dad had his Kawasaki and later Yamaha bikes, I always wanted either a Norton Comando or a HD softtail. As I got older I really liked the naked bikes that came out in the early 2000’s and still do. Now entering middle age I’m again back to liking Harley but I would really want a V-rod or the new sportsterS. But I think my real dream is triumph Rocket 3.
        I think Harley is doing the right thing with the Pan american, liveire and sportster S. I think they need to keep building what they always have as long as they can while trying to introduce new models and the hell with what people say. On social media the local HD dealer posts every bike they sell with the owner (and man they sell alot of bikes) The panamerica owners are always way different then the rest.

    • 0 avatar
      Luke42

      I used to ride a Japanese cruiser, but my local Harley dealer has sent me back out the door every time I’ve been there.

      The last time I was there (fall of 2015), I asked the sales-lady (a grandmotherly looking boomer) where the small bikes are, because I’m too short for their regular bikes. She said “we don’t have any, but I wish we did so we had something to sell the women”.

      As a licensed motorcycle rider who’s owned another brand of cruiser and likes entry-level bikes, I was pretty much the walking definition of a conquest customer. But, I clearly don’t measure up to their standards. [shrug]

      I haven’t been back.

      With marketing like that, I don’t see how the Harley brand can outlive their existing customers.

      Building a new Buell for every customer-segment is probably their best chance for H-D’s survival as a business, beyond the life of the brand.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @Luke42 – I rarely ever see anyone under 55 years old on a Harley. They have the attitude that anything small is a girl’s bike. Maybe once boomers end up clutching the handlebars of walkers and wheelchairs instead of bikes, they might be able to adapt.

        • 0 avatar

          The main Harley demo is pretty spot on over 55 white male. While I have met a number of professional type owners (lawyer doctors) the majority seem to be blue color types or low level engineers (the manufacturing company I work at, so engineers and skilled labor hasn’t had any bike other then a Harley in the parking lot since the old electrician with a BMW quit 3-4 year ago). You do get more younger people in the last 4-5 years lots of ex military and also a big segment of buy America younger guys (almost all blue color and working in the trades). When I was 20 none of my friends had Harleys they all joked it was an old mans bike, I watch the younger people in this same group today and many do have Harleys but their V-rods or sportsters. This change hasn’t been enough to really help Harley thou because many of the more middle aged guys that can buy and ride bikes seem to lean heavily to the adventure bikes and (naked)sport bikes.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            I see a lot of grey heads on adventure bikes, especially the big ones. Harley was wise to make the Pan-America. ADV’s attract a ton of younger riders who cut their teeth on dirt bikes. They need to build a sub 450 lb. middleweight ADV bike.

  • avatar
    DenverMike

    A sub $20K EV CUV AWD would do the most damage to ICE sales. Yeah pickups, but CUVs are the biggest segment within “light trucks”.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    I could see a Maverick EV truck priced not much more than the base Maverick.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    @Lou_BC–Harley Davidson’s main customers which are aging baby boomers are trading bikes for walkers and are dying off. Most of the younger generation have little interest in hogs and those who ride are more interested in smaller lighter bikes. I use to ride but I never wanted an HD. I had a Suzuki and a Yamaha which were both midsized.

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