The time is ticking ever closer to the day an OEM slaps a $100,000 MSRP on a truck. It will happen, and it won’t be long before it does.
In 1997, $27,000 bought a lavishly equipped F-150 Lariat SuperCab with a 5.4-liter V8. Adjusted for inflation, that’s about $40,000 in today’s money. Adjusted for reality, that truck now carries a $45,000 MSRP. The $100,000 barrier will be crossed in perhaps a decade based on inflation alone, but inflation will not deliver the first $100,000 truck. Trim escalation and new equipment will cross the finish line first.
Regardless, OEMs won’t be the first to push MSRPs into the stratosphere. That distinction goes to the aftermarket, in conjunction with dealers. And, unsurprisingly, together they’ve already made a $100,000 pickup a reality.
But first, a quick rewind.
Ford truck shoppers in search of luxury in the ’70s, ’80s, and ’90s purchased a Lariat. King Ranch was added in 2001 and Platinum bowed in 2009. Thanks to increasing demand for up-scale trucks, Ford declared in July of last year, “There’s a Ford F-150 for every truck customer,” when it released its range-topping F-150 Limited. Indeed, Ford does have an F-150 for every budget. A base F-150 XL can be had for about $26,000. Load up your half-ton Limited and you can achieve a $69,000 MSRP.
Premium shoppers visiting a Ford store now have four trim levels to choose from (Lariat, King Ranch, Platinum, and Limited). It may seem impractical to add this complexity to the design, supply chain, assembly, and marketing of the F-150, but the strategy has been an immense success.
According to TrueCar, the F-150’s average transaction price (ATP) during the first six-months of 2015 was $46,573. That’s 10-percent higher than Ram, at $42,256, and a massive 21-percent more than Silverado, at $38,384. Multiply the additional revenue Ford is earning across the 600,000 F-150’s it sold in the U.S. and Canada last year, and the Blue Oval generated an additional $2.6 billion versus what it would have if the F-150 ATP were equal to Ram, and $4.9 billion more than if it had equaled Silverado.
And it gets better for Dearborn: the incremental dollars earned on higher trim levels are its most profit laden, approaching a 50-percent gross profit margin versus approximately 25 percent on the first $35,000 of any truck it sell.
The escalation in trim levels has primarily included ever-more luxurious interior appointments and distinctive exterior esthetics. Bigger and brighter wheels, metallic paint, adaptive cruise control, and butt warmers do not, however, address the other end of the market. Off-road and outdoor enthusiasts are looking for something else. Consumers lifted and modified their trucks for decades before the OEMs began embracing the performance aftermarket. Over the years, OEMs built some factory trucks containing hints of the aftermarket, but their deeper commitment arrived only recently.
Jeep led the OEMs into the off-road enthusiast market in 2003 when it launched the Wrangler Rubicon. The Rubicon’s 10,000 rookie-year sales grew to over 22,000 by 2008. Between the Rubicon and the return of Dodge’s Power Wagon in 2005, Ford could see demand existed for trucks with off-road packages containing more than shocks, skid plates, and stickers. When Ford launched the Raptor in 2010, it finally tapped into the market’s enduring passion for legitimate off-road performance.
Ford will release its all-new Raptor soon. It will offer new features and capabilities — as well as the rising prices those bring. But it will not cost $100,000, and probably not even $80,000. The Raptor is well equipped, but does not bring together desert-stomping capability with the Limited trim level. Ram is the only manufacturer to combine its highest trim level (Laramie) with a truly capable off-road package (Power Wagon). This winch equipped, go-anywhere, three-quarter ton has 32-inch tires and everything FCA can offer, yet still it maxes out just over $60,000. Achieving a $100,000 MSRP will require, at the very least, combining high-end luxury and special off-road performance.
It’s this territory that continues to belong to the enterprising aftermarket via up-fitters and dealers, who’ve already crossed the $100,000 threshold.
In January, Honolulu Ford sold the first new F-Series at over $100,000. It was a Platinum F-250 diesel with $40,000 in aftermarket equipment provided by Dealer Services International (DSI).
DSI is the largest up-fitter in the country, serving 2,000 dealers across the U.S. and selling more than 700 modified trucks per month. The F-250 sold by Rhett Van Fossen at Honolulu Ford was the first DSI-modified truck in the country to fetch over $100,000.
The most in-your-face modifications to the stock truck included a 10-inch Fabtech lift, featuring its top of the line Dirt Logic coilovers, and 40-inch tires on 20-inch Fuel wheels. Additional aesthetic upgrades were added: color matched fender flares, new exhaust tips, window tint, and more. All of Honolulu Ford’s modified trucks are up-fitted at DSI’s partner, 4 Wheel Parts, located just west of Pearl Harbor. Unfortunately, the record-breaking truck sold so rapidly the dealer captured no imagery before it left the lot; it didn’t even market the truck. Fortunately, they have other modified trucks, including a new monster with a $106,298 total on the addendum sticker. January’s record-setting F-250 is turning-heads wherever it goes on Oahu, but it’s record may not stand for long.
Ford Super Duty with $106,298 “Dealer Asking Price” Monroney sticker.
According to Guy Mello, a 20-year car business veteran and General Sales Manager at Honolulu Ford, they can’t get enough of these modified trucks. “We sold 40 units in 2015 and see a market for 60 or more this year, all without extra marketing dollars or flooring costs. The trucks speak for themselves – customers love them and so do we.”
Who buys a $100,000 F-Series?
Like many car shoppers, the high-end F-Series buyer does not visit the lot on a mission to buy one of these behemoths. These are people who went shopping for a truck, stumbled on something more expressive and individualized, and decided they wanted one. These are not traditional truck enthusiasts; those people visit 4 Wheel Parts or one of its competitors, pick out exactly what they want, and have their truck modified accordingly. This is an opportunistic purchaser who may have never even considered a modified truck. Consumers who purchase trucks like these from new car dealers are willing to pay for peace of mind and convenience. They expect their speedometer to read actual speed and their odometer to tally real miles.
Predictably, more than 90 percent of buyers are male. They are 40-60 years old and earn over $100,000 a year. Most finance their purchase and, although a significant down payment is required, Honolulu Ford has no trouble getting lenders to advance credit as much as 25-percent over MSRP for qualified buyers. Yes, that means you may qualify for a loan on one of these rigs if you have at least $20,000 to put down and can swing $1,000 to $1,500 per month.
These trucks are not for everyone, but that’s exactly the point. These buyers want something unique and extroverted. They aren’t willing to sacrifice their warranty and they want to roll it all into a single loan. Yes, they pay a premium, but this is as close to a $100,000 truck as we get … for now.
[Images: Honolulu Ford]
well, if you consider the Escalade a truck, then the $100,000 truck is already here.
We tried to configure a $100,000 Escalade last year and we couldn’t do it. Maybe it’s different this year.
possibly. I can do it; ESV Platinum 4WD, add chrome wheels, tri-coat paint, and power running boards. $100,095.
I can’t get a Navigator L over $78!
(Then again, that’s sort of in 2003 dollars, ha.)
You don’t need to spec an Escalade to hit a 100k. My local Ford dealer sells Tuscany trucks. They have a F150 Shelby with a 140k price tag. A Black Ops F350 is 114k.
yeah, but those have third-party add-ons. The point is about a truck with a $100k+ *MSRP!*
@JimZ – the trucks I have mentioned are marketed with full warranties. In Canada HD pickups with all of the options boxes ticked are above 90k.
The Cadillac SUV’s (if you count them as a truck) are well north of 100k.
Yes but isn’t $100k CDN like $70k U.S. or something? Regardless, I believe these “Brodozers” (great word BTW!) are definitely pretty pricey for what you’re really getting. Wonder what this thing cost to make. $30k tops?
Superdessucke – even without the dollar exchange trucks sell for much more in Canada. The difference in the dollar is driving up the price of used trucks because Americans are crossing the border to take advantage of that 28% advantage.
In 2013 I bought the equivalent to a 1997 XLT for about 5 grand less than inflation adjusted dollars. My brother waiting for 2014 and got the same truck for 10 grand less. It is a far better vehicle, 8 mpg more efficient and can tow almost 6,000 more lbs. Hell, it tows as much as the 1997 F350.
Today there are more choices and more luxury options. The product has grown to soak up all of that excessive baby boomer spending. Baby boomers are now entering the ‘excess’ portion of their life. Next up: dying in nursing homes.
I’m so glad Medicare will pay for their expenses at the home, while their King Ranch sits in the garage of their four bedroom home, collecting dust.
We have to work hard to pump all that profit back into their still aggressively positioned retirement funds or they’ll just keep working to get their 401k’s back to 2007 levels.
Ugh, everybody loses with Boomers.
Maybe I can get a deal on it at the estate auction.
tresmonos – I agree. The retro muscle car boom is in response to that demographic. I rarely ever see a non-boomer in a Mustang, Camaro, or Challenger. Same can be said for full bling HD pickups that aren’t used for work. Harley Davidson is the king of the babyboomer market. Who else buys them?
Boomers may buy the HD F-150’s, but the “brodozers” of all brands appear to be driven by 30-somethings on both sides of the 49th parallel. Whether North Dakota or Fort McMurray, money and testosterone equals lifted, blinged-out pick-ups.
It’s usually bearded 20-somethings with sunglasses and backwards hats
AEV will sell you a $60,000 Wrangler pickup conversion on top of your $35,000 or whatever Wrangler, which would seem more unique (for now) and better value than these too-big options.
http://www.aev-conversions.com/vehicles/brute-double-cab/build-and-price#/
Thar she blows.
Seriously, you would need a tugboat to get that thing in and out of a parking spot at the grocery store!
How so? The wheelbase is no longer than a normal SuperCrew short bed F-250.
Probably need a tugboat for that too!
Not at my grocery store.
Are trucks the highest margin vehicles in the car industry? Luxury makes have their own “special” brand of vehicles but I doubt the difference between a regular E class and an AMG E generates 50% margin.
Trucks dealers must be very happy right now.
American pick-up trucks and body on frame SUVs are probably the highest margin vehicles in the industry.
Some option packages on luxury cars are probably comparably high margin (like the Lexus Ultra Luxury packages) but trucks are singularly spectacular.
The F150 is one of the highest volume vehicles in the world, they really only have to design it to work with one set of crash standards and meet carb emissions and they can sell it in Canada and the U.S. They can share parts across generations and reuse tooling – lowering the develop cost and cap ex on the factories, and they can slather the trucks in chrome and leather and double the price.
I Agree. I was at my wife’s cousin’s place this spring and so was her sister. I have a XLT F150 and my sister-in-law has a Platinum. My truck retailed for 48k and hers around 68k. None of us could see an extra 20k of product or value in the Platinum.
The irony here is that such efforts have failed under Cadillac and Lincoln badges.
I am struggling to imagine the mindset of someone who would drive such a monstrosity around. Are humans this starved for attention and validation of self and worth?
look at all of the low-genetic-diversity types who think “rolling coal” is just the most awesome thing ever.
“low-genetic-diversity types”
Really?
Well, you gotta admit, 28…as pastimes go, “creating excessive pollution just to hack people off” is probably one of the dumber ones out there. It’s right up there with launching bottle rockets out of your butthole.
(Come to think of it, probably the same type of folks doing both…)
I agree stupid, dumbass, moron, jag off, idiot, and buffoon are all words which come to mind to describe such a perpetrator, but the phrase “low genetic diversity” doesn’t even make sense here.
think of the stereotypes of the back-woods hillbilly. a la Jeff Foxworthy’s “If your family tree does not branch, you might be a redneck.”
Most coal rollers are slaves to their trucks, and they’re usually sourced from post lease auction lots.
You have to hand it to them, they perpetuate the aftermarket companies. I know people with almost as much money tied up in their trucks as I do in my IRA that depreciates a slightly less with the S&P.
“low genetic diversity” – love it, I’ll have to use that one sometime.
Jim Z,
I love the term you coined “low genetic diversity”. It really highlights the the atypical view of the few who drive these types of vehicles.
Interesting term considering Australia was once a penal colony.
I almost typed “penile”. Talk about an averted Freudian slip.
“Are humans this starved for attention and validation of self and worth?”
Um, yeah. You have to live under a rock to believe otherwise.
How many $100k+ Porsche’s get to triple digit speeds more than once a month? How many people need their 5000 square foot house? Or a $1000 watch? People buy extravagant stuff to signal success/status/power all day, every day.
Guys buy stuff to get noticed for respect and/or to get laid all the time. It is worth considering that the type of girl attracted to the guy with the pickup might be a lot easier to deal with than the girl attracted to the Porsche.
Well, true, but a $100,000 Porsche passes emissions. A brodozer coal rolling pickup won’t. There are responsible and irresponsible ways to signal your status, you know?
For some people, I think being able to show they are wealthy but also down to earth is important, and for those people, a pimped-out Ford or Chevy makes more sense than a Lincoln or Cadillac. If you are a small business owner, it doesn’t make it seem like you are lording your wealth over your employees or customers as much.
I also suspect that the Mark LT existed mostly to shut up Lincoln/Mercury dealers who wanted a truck to sell.
I wonder what the buyer will get for this in 5 years when he decides he needs a new truck. $30k?
The more expensive & customized, the bigger the depreciation monster will bite.
and it’s going to be a shock to them too. you know how many people out there think they can just total up the costs of all the mods they did and tack it on to the sale price of their car/truck?
I’m of the mindset that if I’m looking at a used car and it has performance mods, its value to me drops to $0. I’d take it if you *gave* it to me, but I’m not paying you for something you’ve probably beaten to hell and back.
A lot of these “brodozer” trucks are never use for anything tough. The only abuse typically is doing burnouts after the bar closes.
Same can be said for 95% of the Jeeps I see with lift kits, winches and 35’s. They are just street queens.
It tends to be easy to spot a vehicle that has been beat on. Especially any off-road biased vehicle.
How about when a jealous lover digs her key into the side of his pretty little souped-up four-wheel drive and carves her name into his leather seats; takes a Louisville slugger to both headlights and slashes a hole in all four tires?
VoGo – say that with a southern accent and you have a hit song on your hands ;)
I logged in to make a very similar comment. How many truck shoppers want someone else’s heavily modified leftovers? Few $100K vehicles have pretty depreciation, and this type of vehicle is probably among the worst.
I know from first hand experience these trucks, and all other variants of lifted Jeeps etc sell very well on the used car lot. In some cases better than they do new. The re-sale value on them is not as atrocious as you would think.
Comparatively the F250 Bro-Dozer optioned truck depreciates about the same as a base model or standard option Maserati or Aston Martin. They all cost about the same, 100k give or take and are worth 40k in 3 years, give or take a little. To each their own.
Mild lifts sell well but not nose bleed high ones with the biggest tires available.
Commonly used Big Pharma med that broke the $10 a pill barrier: Viagra by Pfizer, 1998. Commonly used Big Pharma med that broke the $1,000 a pill barrier: Sovaldi by Gilead 2013 (thanks, Rummy!). It’s an American race between drugs and trucks! Yee-haa!!!
Never underestimate the power of the need in some people to self-validate and show off to others.
Another exampke, see the B-2 bomber.
True, but then again, some folks do it with M-series BMWs too. They just do it with a higher safety factor and less resource waste.
Seth Parks deserves much credit for writing this extremely well laid-out, thorough, detailed article & analysis.
It’s one of the best non op/ed TTAC articles I’ve yet read in many,many years.
And it clearly demonstrates where the fat, juicy profit center is (and has been for many years for the Big 2.5 Domestic NA Manufacturers.
If I were to be a dealer, I’d only really want to be a volume pickup truck seller with a huge aftermarket support structure to wring even more stupid profits out of pickup truck buyers, as these buyers are more stupid with their disposable income than any other segment of vehicle purchasers, in mass droves/volume.
Gone is the appeal of a commercial showing a ball bearing being rolled down the seam of a hood to demonstrate the precise build quality and assembly and consistency in extremely tight fabrication, or champagne glasses arranged in pyramid fashion on the hood of luxury car as it revs its refined motor to the upped end of its rpm band on a dynamometer.
The big money and profit center in new vehicle sales is pickup trucks, Cowboy Bling, Mad Max Fury Road, Rollin’ Coal, Rock Climber Especialle, or Gold/Platinum/Titanium Wrapped w/36″ Lift Kit & 24″ Wheels.
Ford at least is capitalizing the next decade’s worth of big truck tooling with the new F series. The P473 has lots of tooling that is as old as my junior high school diploma. Sweet, sweet depreciated capital.
Hooray for federal intervention to get all these high cost oil producers back in line to pave the next decade of economic greatness.
I’ll be the last one to question or criticize Ford’s Pickup Truck division or planners or visionaries.
Those people have been keeping the ship seaworthy since the 80s, at least, and they’ve kept the whole ship from capsizing from time to time during the 90s and 2000s.
They ARE the nucleus of Ford profitability.
Deadweight,
It also highlights the lack of competition in the US pickup market.
Allowing and creating a more open and competitive market would allow the consumer to benefit through lower prices.
Who else can build a half ton pickup to compete with the existing manufacturers?
Anyone can build one, the trouble is selling them. See Toyota and Nissan as prime examples.
Me, I don’t get it. If I was to buy a truck, it would be the most base spec thing the world has ever seen with a hose-it-out interior, the smallest engine that can just barely get the job done, and A/C. Because trucks are just things to be worked to death. And the reality is that I wouldn’t buy a truck, I’d buy a *van* in that spec instead, because infinitely more useful the majority of the time. If something needs to be carried in/on an open bed, that is why God invented trailers.
Well that’s the trick, right. You have to pay for all the stuff to build them, while at the same time not being able to amortize the costs by moving 500K units. Chances are, you won’t be able to offer all the trim, color, and option combinations that Ford does. Toyota has carved out a nice niche by moving 110K-120K Tundras a year. No one else is going to do better than that.
And for the record, if I were to buy a truck, it would be an F150 SuperCab XLT 4×4 with the 2.7TT and limited options. In reality, I’m waiting for the Bronco to come out.
When the work’s done, vans get abandoned behind the shop, with the luxo pickup waiting out front. Forget about comfort and style, which vans have little or none of, most would rather have one vehicle that does it all, or most all.
Vans just have way more limitations, especially for the private sector, unless you happen to be a pedo.
Yup, Nissan and Toyota sure have been real competition to Ford, GM, and Ram/Dodge.
Open the market and what happens?
Mahindra, Tata et al aren’t going to flood the market with competitive HD’s.
The market is open. If Mahindra, Tata, etc think that they can make money on selling trucks over here, they can build a Mexican factory (that has free trade with everyone), meet US safety standards, meet EPA standards, set up some sort of dealership network, and take on the big dogs in their yard.
[email protected], VW has a factory in the US making a model that sells like poop sandwiches. If they thought that the Aramok was going to make money in the US, they could build it there.
bball40dtw – VW had said they would need to sell 100,000 Amarok’s per year to justify a factory in NAFTA zone.
That might have been viable pre-cheat device scandal but not now. Allowing imported trucks would have allowed them to test the waters without a local factory.
Regardless of any of that, they still wouldn’t be competitive with full sized 1/2 tons let alone the Tacoma.
…i have a $20,000 mazda 2: does that count?..
Only as an escape pod for a $100K+ F-series.
Now *that’s* an option I would pay for.
*Available only at authorized Ford/Mazda dealerships.
Also, we can’t forget the $100K+ International CXT pickup from a few years ago.
Or that Russian thing with the whale penis leather interior.
I always thought that one was just a meme someone perpetuated around here.
Nope, it was for real.
(Or at least as real as anything on Jalopnik)
http://jalopnik.com/5380680/15m-russian-suv-features-diamonds-whale-penis-leather
I do believe they eventually stopped with the whale dick leather, tho.
Good grief.
“Russia’s wealthy, showing China a new level of gauche since 1995.”
Just run your hands across that leather……… faster………..faster……..
How do they get the leather?
4 skin-divers?
I have friends who test drove the CXT; they said it was horrible to drive. Medium duty trucks are not built with comfort and handling in mind. No matter how cool it looks the CXT is very hard to actually live with.
Freightliner M2 Sport Chassis.
http://www.sportchassis.com/
It’s their money, whatever…
Yeah, but they should be giving it to me instead.
Well, for these guys, it’s that or the “Nugent/Ventura 2020” PAC…
It was funny how many people I’d have tell me “I don’t need any money!” when I worked in the service area for our variable annuities and it would come time for them to take their 70.5 aged Required Minimum Distribution.
Sometimes the friendlier ones might say “Well, do you want it? My kids don’t need it either.”
Your first world problems are killin me, old ladies.
They just didn’t want to pay taxes on the RMD.
Lol, yes I am aware. It was just funny they’d rather give money away than pay taxes on it and have more money in their pocket.
Except they actually don’t have more money if they give it away.
The anti-tax hate never ends. I say, institute communism now so we never have to pay again. I have plenty of time to wait on queue for my vodka, comrade.
well I guess the 100K PU is a useful as the new Lambo in metro NY, gotta love the finance numbers 20K down and a payment of 1,000-1500 a month , hey if folks can afford it go for it, I could win lotto tomorrow and I would not be in the market for a 100,000 car or truck.
The Hawaiian islands are definitely the land of the “haves” and the “have nots”. Parking spots in public lots are also tiny so parking this thing would be pretty much impossible in a lot of places. Lifted stomper style trucks are popular with the locals, but pretty much all of them are Toyotas that rust in funny places due to the salt air.
I think if I were a Hawaii resident, I’d have a nice little A5 cabrio or something.
I think a lot of people think that, until they realize it’s mid-August 5 days a week year round, and the rest of the time it’s raining!
I’m in south Florida and thought about a convertible for funsies, but am a bald-at-the-crown redhead, am 35– and don’t like the heat. Convertibles in warm climates are far from my own ideal, but others seem to like them!
Everyone always ruins my Hawaii fantasies, after my Florida ones were already ruined by going to Miami.
Then don’t ruin your Hawaii ones by visiting Honolulu.
WHAT IS LEFT FOR ME!?
I guess North Carolina.
28 pushes Vegas over Outer Banks.
Next time try Kihei, Maui. Best place to go in the Hawaiian Islands, IMO.
Jeep Wranglers are enormously popular in Hawaii. The 4wd allows them to go offroad and onto the beach, where allowed.
Didn’t Larry Ellison buy a Hawaiian island? Maybe I could pay him a visit.
You can stay at one of the two Four Seasons there. Fascinating detailed article about Lanai here.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/28/magazine/larry-ellison-island-hawaii.html?_r=0
but the food is really good!
The only tropical paradise I have been to that I liked was Aruba.
Though I will be perfectly happy to be on the West Coast of FL from Thanksgiving to Easter starting sometime relatively soon. But my Spitfire will stay in Maine.
I would like to visit Catalina and also San Juan sooner rather than later. American oddities.
Corey-
Are you going to the [email protected] Catalina Wine Mixer?
Yes, I got some new khakis for it!
I don’t see a problem here.
I love the freedom to buy what I want, and if someone really wants to make up for what God didn’t give him at birth, then by all means buy the big truck with a huge sticker price to compensate.
The transaction costs are deceiving – both Total Recall Motors and Ram have consistently lagged on offering models that are in most demand. Ford, being the leader in trucks, knows its market better than anyone (its war room is infamous for staying ahead of the competition). Ford knows that the highest stickered products have tremendous demand and they continue to one up themselves – that is why XLT and Lariat was once highbrow to be replaced by King Ranch and then Platinum and later by Nose Raised Luxury.
Yes, Ford makes insane profits off its trucks – but it couldn’t if it build them like 1997 – or like 1999 which Total Recall Motors and its Professional Grade Con Artist division still make. There is nothing about the new F-150 and its higher numbered brothers that even has in common with 1997 other than a pickup bed, four tires and wheels, and seats.
When I think back at what a $6,500 1975 Ford Super Cab had (like my dad bought in fall 1974), it is remarkable at the changes in the products. 300 cid straight six that never broke – got horrible gas mileage – and the doors and dashboard had painted sheet metal.
The $100k truck will sell as well as expected and that is okay. I’ll take a stripped car with no options and be just as happy.
It’s no surprise that Ford’s gotten it right when it comes to pickup trucks. All they had to do was think “LTD on a half-ton truck chassis” and go from there.
Today’s pickup trucks are the full-sized sedans of the 60s and 70s.
I have seen several $100,000 trucks over the years. The most notable was this guy who bought his 16 year old daughter a Hummer H2 pickup, had it custom painted, lift kit, big wheels, tires, a super expensive custom stereo install that they worked with different car stereo manufacturers to do and even ostrich leather everywhere. That thing is probably worth $10,000 now if that.
A custom car stereo system, lift kit, wheels and tires are a pretty good way to get your truck up to $100,000 real fast.
I’m not a pickup truck guy, but I like the King Ranch and the Raptor, those are the only two pickup trucks I would probably ever drive and the only two to me that look even remotely worth the money.
I don’t personally see myself spending 100K on a truck. Or anyone else I know.
It seems, though, that the trucks are being built with a lot of good quality aftermarket components…manufactured in factories that employ a lot of Americans, at least as far as I can tell. And the results are actually *very* capable vehicles, even if the majority of buyers will never fully explore those capabilities.
Neither will the buyers of M cars. Or AMGs. Or Porsche products, particularly the 911. All of which cost as much or more than the trucks mentioned here.
A lot of the commenters here are car enthusiasts, right? And appreciate the fact that M cars and 911’s exist even if most of the buyers won’t/can’t use them to their full potential? Why should these trucks be regarded any differently?
They are a luxury item. Not unlike super-expensive cameras bought by hobbyist photographers, super-expensive watches bought by people who either appreciate fine engineering or want you to know they can afford the cost of a Submariner, top of the line Gibson Les Pauls often bought by people who can’t play nearly as well as Jimmy Page or Slash, etc.
Maybe pulling at the class warfare thread is pretty risky since I bet we could catch just about everybody commenting on something or other if we look hard enough.
You would be surprised to know how often that’s not true, especially in the Midwest. I have one buddy that has a Viper, an M5, a 911, had a GT-R and he also has a Raptor and had a Ford Lightning before. Guy here in town rolls around in a Cadillac Escalade and an F150 Platinum and has a garage with Lambroghinis, Ferraris and whatnot. Another friend has a G550, an ML63 AMG for his wife and also a loaded to the gills custom pickup truck. At the end of the day you can’t tow your boat, jet skis and other stuff with an M5. Like you said the trucks today are being built very well, well enough to the point where a guy that owns a 911 can justify spending $70,000 plus on one.
With regard to your comments about expensive guitars, watches and cameras, while they tend to be bought by wealthier people, honestly almost anyone can buy those things if they budgeted appropriately. You see dead broke people smoking cigarettes all day, sometimes 2 packs a day, that’s what almost $5,000 a year? There’s your Rolex Submariner or a Canon 5D with some of the best lenses and gear out there. It’s all about your priorities.
Are the trucks really that much more capable? I’m not sure if I trust a distribution center that basically throws the kitchen sink at a truck at actually piecing together a solid package. It might be well built, but I am generally suspicious of these setups.
Quentin,
I would hazard to guess, that most would not even have the ability to use a poofteenth of the vehicles potential.
Most who drive would not even take them off road because of the amount of money they invested in them.
Wank Wagons is the best term to describe most of them.
I’m forced to wonder if the 100K trucks with the aftermarket additions significantly up the amount of domestic content in their manufacture…
Carrying a Glock21 here, and my experience is that most factory-equipped pickup trucks do not need aftermarket stuff, to wit: 2016 Tundra CrewMax 4×4 5.7L SR5 TRD 18″ Michelins ATs + skidplates.
It goes everywhere I pointed it to go, even off road.
Really a slick truck, based on my previous experiences with half-ton pickup trucks.
highdesertcat,
Ah, HDC, it just doesn’t have the wank appeal.
You are correct. If one looks at what is used most in off road situations these vehicles are an overkill.
But, if people want them, let them be.
That’s the way I see it too because that is exactly the difference between men and boys — the price of their toys.
My dad along with my mom’s brother got their jollies on running a dragster at Riverside Raceway during the early sixties, burning an astounding 5-gallons of nitro-methane fuel in the quarter-mile.
Me, not so much. I’m happy with my go-anywhere anytime FFV pickup truck.
Um, no,
The price of their toys is the difference between actual men and those grown boys who eat Ramen noodles and skip out on their child support so they can make their truck payment.
I busted out laughing when I read that because I don’t know anyone like that.
It takes one to know one, would be my guess.
Then again, if you are one of those, I think it would be a matter of individual priorities.
And I’m OK with that.
To clarify: I wasn’t intending to insult you, HDC
VoGo, it wasn’t taken as an insult but such things are never addressed in a public forum because skipping out on child support is most often a personal/individual choice.
Just like the guy who was handed a judgement of 50% of his retired pay had to be given to his ex-wife of 10+ years.
So he quit his job with the NYC police department before retiring, and she didn’t get a cent.
He got a new job as a Sheriff in another state and she could not lay claim to that retirement. He won, she lost huge!
Ditto child support. If a person has zero official income they can’t pay it, even though they make tons of money on the side, that the IRS knows nothing about.
Where there is a will, there is a way. And there are so many legal ways to circumvent the law.
That’s why attorneys get paid the big bucks, to write the small print.
BTW, I didn’t know what Ramen was, until I looked it up. Seriously! Never had it. Doubt I ever will. Don’t know anybody that eats the stuff as part of a daily diet.
Must be some fad in the big cities.
I will never comprehend the lengths to which grown men will go to escape paying to support their children.
On the topic of Ramen noodles, the instant ones are popular with college students and young adults – a quick, cheap and filling soup. And now there are gourmet Ramen noodle shops popping up to meet hipster demand.
“I will never comprehend the lengths to which grown men will go to escape paying to support their children. ”
Yes, you are right about that. And most of the time that “child support” is spent by the ex on herself, rather than the child(ren).
“Ramen noodles”: as part of my edification I went out and bought one package of “Chow Mein Nissin Original Premium Teriyaki Chicken Flavor Noodles”. Followed the directions, and ate it.
It sucked!
A peanut butter and grape jelly sandwich with a glass of milk tastes better to me and is more filling.
And I had a lot of those meals over my lifetime.
Sorry, but these prices are just nuts. I’ve wanted to upgrade my truck, & have been doing a little window shopping. The best deal I could find is a used truck for $34k. Ouch. My 2k Super Duty V10 4×4 supercab will have to soldier on for the foreseeable future. I bought it about 4 years ago with 73k miles on it for $4200. For what I’ve got into it, I can throw a LOT of cash into it & still come out ahead.
Not all trucks need to cost that much. My son bought a left-over 2015 F350 DRW 4dr 4×4 with the gas engine for less than $70K + tt&l.
Hold on to that V10! I wish I still had my 1999 F250 V10, but the guy who bought it from me made me a cash offer I just could not refuse…..
In the metro Detroit area, there’s no shortage of new truck inventory and there’s no lack of huge incentives either (I’m speaking of an automatic $10,000 off sticker of the RAM, F-150 or Silverado that has a 44k to 46k MSRP).
True employee and Tier I supplier discounts abound here as well.
I think this article points to the fact that trucks are a massive contributor to both the revenue and profitability of the domestic 2.5 right now, subsidizing what otherwise might be losses if just sedans and coupes were accounted for, and that the average transaction price of a Ford F Series is appreciably higher than the GM and FCA pickup truck counterparts.
I also think that, even now (and I’ll bet into the future given cyclical nature of the auto business, commodity prices, etc.), pickup trucks costing more than 60k or 65k(I’m talking light duty consumer purchases, not fleet duty, heavy duty specialty trucks) are still a very small % of overall purchases (as the ATP seems to suggest even for Ford), so the overwhelming bulk of pickup truck revenue is still generated by midlevel trim trucks in the 30k to 45k range.
Even at an average transaction price anywhere above 36k, pickup trucks are way more profitable than almost any sedan or coupe for an automaker.
One more thing; given that the Ford F Series is “the” new American “Car,” in terms of both volume sold and profitability to Ford and its dealer network, it’s a wonder that more parents are NOT telling their kids that “[i]f you study and work hard, Johnny/Susie, you can become a Ford Dealer selling F150s” instead of encouraging them to become MBAs, attorneys, accountants, physicians and engineers.
Sage words, as always, DW.
DW, the automatic money off, is this half tons or three quarter tonnes as well?
1/2
They stick it up your a$$ once you really go heavy duty (unless you’re a fleet buyer purchasing 3 to 12 at a time, in which case you’ll get really attractive % off for them to keep your business in the fold and get the service contracts, also – there’s a dealer in Centerline, MI that is rumored to make way more off of fleet services on Ford trucks than all other aspects of their dealership combined, and they just quadrupled the size of their commercial service bays).
The time to buy any truck is “left-over” time, usually at the end of the model year.
Sometimes Ford offers mid-year special sales with huge discounts, in some regions.
Serious, value-conscious buyers in my area seek out dealers like Don Chalmers in Albuquerque , or Shamaley in El Paso.
Those are the dealers with the widest variety of trucks in all classes AND they are more interested in selling than making a killing on each individual sale.
A serious buyer shops around. Even travels to save thousands.
I have GM points and discounts but if I am going GMC I want the 6.0 or diesel which is only offered on the 3/4 tonne. I would love for my company to start doing business with Toyota so I can get a supplier discount on a Tundra when the diesel comes out next year.
I poured the concrete for the new service center for the dealership up Van Dyke from the Ford dealership you are talking about. Both of those dealerships make a ton of money off of fleet services. The dealership in Sterling Heights makes a killing off of lease turn ins too.
bball – Suburban (there’s a sad family tale there as to how that became part of the Suburban Collection back in 2011) is the largest seller of Ford F Series pickups in the country, and the 2nd largest overall Ford Dealer (there’s a larger Ford Dealer in California).
And that Centerline Dealership is on fire.
Also, the price of concrete is ridiculous right now and is killing developers, builders and anyone else needing it (I think it’s up nearly 80% since 2010 and the rebar, mesh and everything else has gone way up, too).
Did you do a reinforced 8″ or 10″ pour over there given the weight issues, out of curiosity?
It is a sad tale. Let’s not get into that…
Galpin Ford is bigger, but that’s it. I go to the Ford dealer in Redford because they don’t suck.
It’s average depth is probably ten inches of reinforced concrete. We didn’t mess around. Too many industrial and commercial customers take core samples after they [email protected] up your concrete (Magna International can kiss my a$$).
There’s no way it was a 4″ pour, and I doubt it was a 6″, given the heavy a$$ trucks that use those service bays, amiright?
You are 100% correct
What companies need to worry about is concrete contractors having an average depth of 4″ in their slab when the depth is spec’d for 6″. They hit 6″ in certain spots, but not on average. I was typically a little more expensive because whatever was spec’d, I’d try to make our average depth (or more).
You & I posted @ same time.
I knew it had to be at least be 8″
Thanks.
p.s. – I (with investors) would have snatched up J D**c**n Ford for the price Suburban paid had I known it was going to be sold for that at the time.
The Ford dealership in Brighton only wanted 4″ of depth in their service bays. They do a lot of HD truck work too. I did not get that job way back when. They are cheap a$$es.
Suburban did their service center properly. Same thing with the used car addition.
I’ve seen some of the worst concrete pours ever in the last year. Not only are they not hitting the spec’d depth in many places, but you should see the wet, slurried-a$$ concrete they’re pouring on some Oakland/Macomb jobs.
If I were the project manager, I’d make them tear it out and re-pour if I wasn’t there beforehand (which I would be, so it’s moot).
The race to the bottom is part of why I closed my shop. My dad also wanted to retire and our business partner wasn’t going to let me take the whole thing over without a pie in the sky buyout. I kept the company going two years longer than anyone really wanted, but we were able to close it down with zero debt and all get mid-five figure sums when I closed the books.
It’s hard to want to fight against sh!t companies pouring light commercial slabs when you started pouring concrete in Temples of industry. I don’t have the stomach to hire the minimum wage guys it takes to get many concrete jobs these days. But you know what, no body cares these days. I’ll put these $hit jobs up against my 10 year old concrete at The Palace of Auburn Hills. Hell, the only thing left of Buick City is the concrete that I had my hands in.
My buddy is a custom home builder making way more money with less stress building 6 to 10 homes per year now than he ever could have made at the production builder (where he probably supervised construction of 450 to 700 homes per year) he used to work for.
These new homes in northern Oakland & Macomb by the production builders are so epicly badly slapped together with haste that it would be laughable if it weren’t someone’s home.
That’s a good niche. Where I live there is a local builder that pretty much only does rehab/additions/tear down new builds in Huntington Woods, Pleasant Ridge, Birmingham, and parts of Royal Oak and Berkley. He’s making a killing.
The house across the street from me is going up for sale. Elderly couple is moving out. If I had the cash, I’d flip it and make $50K.
I’m just going to say it (wish I had your email) –
One of the reasons I’m leery of further economic gains, and maybe fearful of a downturn, is the same thing is happening now that happened in 2004 to 2007; money is so easy to borrow and banks and private equity are literally pushing money upon those who are doing deals with semi-reckless abandon (they want to loan huge amounts, too).
Everything’s debt soaked again, from homeowners, to auto buyers, to consumers in general, governments, and corporations (huge debt levels via bind and indenture distances).
That house across the street, I can find you 100 loan officers/private equity funds that will love to loan you money if you could scale that deal up 10 to 100 fold (honestly).
Non-recourse and interest only loans are back in the commercial real estate space, too.
We need to go to a bar (Vinsetta Garage?) next time Tres is in town.
I was just taken to Central Kitchen @ 660 Woodward two weeks ago by a Chicago-based hotel developer and their minions.
It’s really nice, and the food and drinks were great.
The only bad thing is that the M1 thing screwed up all the parking.
We should do an UberX and go there.
[email protected] M-1 tears everything up. I haven’t been there but I used to work in that building. It was pre-Gilbert though.
It’s $200/month or less for a crew cab truck lease right now. It’s really tempting.
What about C-max?
Without any down payment, haggling, employee discounts or anything else, the C-Max Energi is leasing for $240 a month around here. I would expect to lease it for under $200.
The high-end pickup is the American Range rover so why not exceed $100K? Selling exclusive versions of popular products is a great money maker – just ask Porsche.
I think this is a huge factor when we talk about Lincoln, Cadillac, and their market struggles. My guess is that they are losing a lot of sales to their lower end brands and their pickups.
Lincoln tried twice to make their own pickup truck, but it wasn’t until it was rebadged as the F-150 Platinum that it finally stuck. You gain a lot of blue-collar cred if your pickup has the same nameplate as the RCLB XL model being used to haul a construction trailer.
Eh screw that. If I’m going “all in” on a truck then it’s gonna be a Sport Chassis based on the Freightliner M2.
http://www.sportchassis.com/
84 comments so far and not a single reference to small penises.
Ah, but there was one, even before you brought it up.
She said.
Verbal,
Just made one prior to reading your comment.
True, but there was a whale penis reference. And those ain’t small.
Go check my inventory and see my dealer principle’s truck that were trying to sell now that he’s getting a 2016.
These things have an unlimited market.
Zoinks!
Back home (OZ) we call these buyers “Cashed up Bogans”, Bogan being similar but not identical to red-neck.
I do love the philosophy though, the flexibility of it all. If you’re say GM, why not just make the Malibu and forget the tooling, design, capacity issues, marketing and sales efforts to shift the Cruze but have a zillion options including one with a tiny engine to hit advertised economy numbers similar toa Cruze?
These days they run around in Mercedes in Australia and MB was outselling the Ford Falcon
My smug, hardcore Texan, lifelong-aviation fuel salesman (recently retired) uncle has a diesel F-250 that’s loaded to the hilt. It’s a couple of years old- nonetheless, I wonder what he paid for his…
But why would I pay that more for an F-150 when I can have a Silverado? Aren’t they both full-sized pickups? I’m a little confused as to why an F-150 sells for that much of a higher percentage over a Silverado.
I used to hear that ‘Murican millionaires drive F-Series more than any other car. Wonder if that notion still rings true.
That’s a lotta cheddar for an aluminum pickup.
You don’t really have to pay more for an F150 than a Silverado. You just have the option to. Which skews average transaction prices.
Personally, I’d pay more for an F150 than a Silverado because to get a decent sized fuel tank on a Silverado, you need an 8 foot bed. Which, LA/SF parking structures and all, means reg cab. While I’m a huge fan of the forward opening clamshell doors Ford is the only make to offer on extended cabs. And extended cabs are pricier than reg cabs…..
What’s more, Chevy/GMC no longer offers the extended cab/8′ bed on a half ton. They figure that anyone who wanted that is easily served by the new-for-’14 crew cab/6.5′ bed 1500 (same reasoning Ram uses, methinks). Ford just offers both anyway.
I see it this way;
1. If one brand can have four levels of premium trim, is there enough competition? Especially if the vehicle is not a prestige vehicle?
2. There already is a pickup on offer for over $100k. The Mercedes Benz AMG G Wagen 6×6.
3. I don’t really considered an aftermarket optioned vehicle as a “new OEM” product. So, it will be at least a decade or so before you will truly have a $100k pickup.
4. Some of the aftermarket work does look impressive, but I do think much of it is about aesthetics and appeasing the person with “little d!ck” syndrome.
Attempts at competition have just proven that most Americans don’t want full-size Japanese trucks.
You need the bottom trim levels to get enough volume to keep costs down, and reliability up. Yet, all the money is made at the top end of trim scale, since those buyers are the only ones with a dime left to their name.
We are getting close in Canada without aftermarket additions. I priced out an F350 diesel crewcab dual rear wheel with most option boxes checked it came to $87,800.
Probably roughly 22% to 30% of that is b/c of the falling Canadian currency relative to USD.
(The currency has moved downward as much as 44% at some points in 2016 but the OEMs have some protection using currency hedging.)
Not an F-450 Platinum? I won’t say you did it wrong, but you could’ve done it better.
A 97 “Lavishly Equipped” Lariat is equipped somewhere between today’s XL and XLT model.