By on February 6, 2012

GM noted that Fox has issues with the Volt. They give Eric Bolling a Chevy Volt for a week. And this is what GM receives in return. Ingrates.

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302 Comments on “Fox Tests Volt, Runs Out Of Juice In Lincoln Tunnel...”


  • avatar
    mike978

    Wow, who says Fox News isn’t high quality, fair and balanced reporting?

    Who was that woman that confuses switching from electric to gas power as a “breakdown”? I am sure she was on for her automotive “expertise”!

    • 0 avatar
      VanillaDude

      To be fair, we’d have to see GM give a Volt to Joy Behar and have her talk about it on “The View”.

      “The Five” is a “View” take off, but without celebrities. It isn’t news. It is an opinionated talk show that is as fun to watch as “The View”.

      When Bob is on the panel, we get a liberal take on events, with Juan we get a balanced take on events, with the rest, we get a conservative take on events.

      What I think Greg points out correctly, is that this wouldn’t have been talked about if GM didn’t have the Volt as the justification for the Bail-Out. I agree with that. He compares the Volt to Girl Scout Cookies, in that buyers are willing to accept compromises because they believe that the Volt and the GS Cookies were going to something like a societal good.

      The guy who is driving this car is unwilling to make those compromises. He is being real world. He makes a valid point that 25 miles on rechargable energy is not a value in a $47,000 car. The car is not delivering on the perception originally given by GM. They made their beds here, and have no reason to get any slack on it. Like the Edsel, GM oversold and over-hyped the Volt. Unlike the Edsel, it was a strong public justification for our tax dollars.

      Can this be said without hearing from Greenies and GMophiles about how mean I am?

      • 0 avatar
        LDbonk

        I get it… GM, with billions of dollars in R&D money, a 20 year head start and public bailout money, claims this is the best they can do… 30 miles (advertised) on a charge. How is it then, that the Tesla people have been able to develop (essentially in their garage) a $60,000 six passenger, four-door sedan that goes 300 miles on an eight hour charge? Had this joker tested one of those (model S) he could have driven most of the week on one charge in a comfortable, large, beautifully designed car that can outrun a Corvette. ‘Splain that, GM. I think there’s a sniff of petrol money involved here, keeping the lid on mass-produced electrics… yeah?

    • 0 avatar
      NoGuff

      “Wow, who says Fox News isn’t high quality, fair and balanced reporting?”
      –So I guess you chose to completely ignore the first 90 seconds of the video. I guess when facts go against a Liberal agenda (as they usually do) they must be ignored.

      • 0 avatar
        bobdole1979

        When will people learn ELECTRIC CARS ARE CRAP. We need to invest in HYDROGEN. Either Hydrogen Internal Combustion, Liquid Hydrogen Internal Combustion or even Hydrogen Fuel Cells.

        Electric cars will never ever work right however Hydrogen is cheap and easy to produce plus we have an unlimited supply of it as well as 0 carbon emmisions.

        Go look up BMW Hydrogen car on youtube and you will see its possible.

      • 0 avatar
        RHO

        You gotta’ be an idiot to buy a 45K car that has limited range. The heater won’t work unless the engine is running. If you need the AC it cuts your range in half. For the money you can buy a decent car and enough gas to last the lifetime of the car.

      • 0 avatar
        graytotoro

        This just in: a car driven in stop-and-go conditions on the freeway gets bad mileage.

        FILM AT 11!

        For a car that gets 25-50 miles on a full charge…it’s doing exactly what it’s supposed to. Low end? Maybe, but he is driving at stop-go on the freeway.

        I may not like the Volt the same way I like the ZR1, but you gotta be fair.

      • 0 avatar
        danwat1234

        @RHO, actually the heater WILL work without the gas engine running. The heater is electric and runs off the battery. You might be thinking of the Prius or another hybrid.

      • 0 avatar
        ebon

        “Q: What is the driving range of the Chevy Volt?
        A: The car has been designed to drive from 25 to 50 miles on pure electricity stored in the battery from overnight home charging. The actual range will vary depending on temperature, terrain, and driving style.

        After that the gas engine will kick in and allow the car to be driven an additional 344 miles on a full tank (9.3 gallons) of gas.”

        (From Chevy’s FAQS section on the Volt)

        The Volt doesn’t work like most hybrids. When the gas engine kicks in, it’s charging the electric motor, which works more efficiently than the alternatives. After the reported ~20 miles that don’t use any gas at all, you get 36.98 miles per gallon on average. Do you really think the folks at Chevy would be dumb enough to spend millions in R&D and release an expensive vehicle that worked just like a normal car, except the first 20 miles it drove were powered by electricity?

        The facts don’t go against the liberal agenda, but you’re not getting the facts, you’re getting snippets of truth that have been selected to convey a conclusion that Fox decided on ahead of time in order to keep your opinion in line with their agenda. In this case: “anything that goes against the interests of oil companies is bad,” so the Volt has be shown that way, too. You shouldn’t have to do extra legwork to find context for what you’re being told on the news, but unfortunately with Fox, you do. Fox is basically a propaganda machine, and the “stories” covered there are exactly that: stories, not reports. They’re a great source comfort if you’d rather be spoonfed a fiction that allows you to avoid any personal responsibility by painting people you don’t like anyway as the bad guys, but some us find ourselves burdened with the ability to think critically.

    • 0 avatar
      Taint Boil

      Did you say Fox News ……..

      How Fox “News” Makes You Stupid

    • 0 avatar
      mmilesll

      You sound like somebody who brought a Volt.

    • 0 avatar
      dpeilow

      So what never seems to get mentioned is that one of the biggest individual shareholders in Fox News is Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal Alsaud, a Saudi oil sheikh.

      This guy had enough clout to get Rupert Murdoch to do a U turn on supporting employees in the British phone hacking scandal.

      Would he want his investment supporting a vehicle that uses much less of his product? Of course not. He who pays the piper calls the tunes…

      • 0 avatar
        JapesMacfarland

        You wrote, about the Saudi Prince and oil, etc., “Would he want his investment supporting a vehicle that uses much less of his product? ”

        Yes, by your logic the fact that the Left has done everything it can to stop us drilling for our own oil (refusing the Canadian pipeline, so they’ll sell it to China instead, is the latest fiasco of evidence.) means that the Left, or, Democrats and Obama himself are in cahoots with the Saudis for this, your, very reason. There’s basically a daily barrage of anti-self-sufficiency from nearly the entire leftist establishment (near all the tv culture, schools and mainstream media except fox and the WSJ and a couple others, and talk radio) The constant and often irrational drive by the Left to stop us from being more independent of Saudi Arabia’s oil is relentless and overwhelmingly from the non-Fox side. (eg. shutting down all the off-shore drilling…even after the disaster is a fraction of the damage most on the Left said it would be. Or how’s about Anwar? or Fracking often now only being allowed in red States.) So logically your argument really shoots itself in the foot. Interesting though, but I doubt it, in either case.

      • 0 avatar
        dpeilow

        JapesMacfarland: “Yes, by your logic the fact that the Left…”

        I never said anything about the Left. That’s you putting words in my mouth.

        It doesn’t matter whether you are Left, Center or Right – these guys are using US media to trash a car that could cut your gas use to a twentieth of what it is now. Most drives to school, the store or work are well within the range of the Volt but it still retains the ability to do the 5% of journeys that are beyond its electric range.

    • 0 avatar
      JoeGray100

      How about some input from an actual Volt owner. I get 80+ miles per gallon and with a 240Volt Charger I can completely charge my volt from a depleated battery in less than 4 hours. The only way I’ve ever experienced 25 miles in a charge is when I’m driving like a maniac breaking and accelerating hard. However, if I’m conservative in my breaking and accelerating I can milk 40-50 miles to a charge. Following this biased reporting, there has been an email circulating with really bad math referencing Bolling’s reporting for credibility. It’s already been debunked. See http://forums.phishhook.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=864434&start=0

    • 0 avatar
      RogerT135

      “Imagine the horror.

      There you are, driving your electric car through the Lincoln Tunnel to Manhattan from New Jersey.

      Your battery pack gives up its last few electrons, so your car slows to a halt in the narrow tube, blocking traffic, causing a cacophony of curses and horn-honking.

      That’s the picture painted by the latest–and most egregious yet–anti-Volt “reporting” that regularly spews from some Fox News commentators.

      Consider the headline on this report, which is factually accurate, but utterly beside the point.

      Yes, the Volt ran out of charge in the Lincoln Tunnel.

      It’s not until you get to the seventh sentence that the article manages to note, “Fortunately, the car has a gas engine that will kick in when needed, so he was not stranded.”

      In other words, the battery depleted, the range-extending engine switched on, and…nothing happened. The car continued on its journey……..”

      http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1072807_new-low-in-misleading-fox-news-vendetta-against-chevy-volt

  • avatar
    redliner

    So this guy gets in cranks the heat way up, drives inefficiently in the middle of winter and then complains that he didn’t get the advertised range?

    I agree that there is a lot of taxpayer money in these things, but it seems like political agendas overrule any common sense. Hopefully, fox “news” viewers will be able to see through all this.

    • 0 avatar
      Jason

      Most people are going to use it in that manner, rather then drive it gently and leave the heat off in the winter.

    • 0 avatar
      tripl-e

      What’s to see ‘through’? Either the Volt can be driven like a contemporary automobile or it can’t. I think cabin heat is a reasonable expectation these days, particularly in a more northerly location.

      This experimental vehicle has been grossly over-hyped and is just as grossly underperforming. My only concern is that it is taxpayer $$$ being gambled. If private equity money wants to take these risks that’s their business but when public money is involved it is everyone’s business. I have no problem with Fox pointing out the the car fails to live up to even minimal EV expectations.

      • 0 avatar
        fredgold52

        It’s because Government money paid for this that it doesn’t work well. When the government gets involved the results are seldom good.

        If private money had been used to develop this car, it would be like the Tesla. Which means it would work.

      • 0 avatar
        Baby Koop

        Hey tripl-e, I’m a Volt owner and, not that it matters much, a lifelong Republican that calls myself a “conservative”. My personally experience with the Volt is that I get over 300 MPG and save about $2,000 per year in operating costs compared to my last vehicle (Chevy Cavalier). Some people want facts to back this up and you can go here: http://www.voltstats.net to verify it. (The easiest way to get to my data is sort by CS MPG and I’ll be up near the top of CS mileage)

        So when I hear people say that the car is “experimental” or “over-hyped” or “underperforming” you can imagine that I might disagree. Here is the basic concept of the Volt and why I think it is really awesome. If I had to guess what the average miles driven per year for an American is I would have said somewhere between 12,000 and 15,000 miles. I did a quick internet search and one of the answers I saw was that it is actually 13,476 miles per year which averages out to about 36 miles per day.

        Now imagine if a car company built a car that could go about 35 miles and not use a drop of gas. You don’t have to be a tree hugger to think that that might be a good idea. Now, some people might object and say that ok, sure, the AVERAGE miles driven per day is 36 but sometimes you need to go 50, 100, even 500 miles or more in day. Well, the Volt, unlike the Leaf or a car built by Tesla or any of the other pure BEVs can actually do that.

        Now, some people might object and say, “fine, you say that the Volt can go 35 miles in pure EV mode but I see people saying that it only goes 25 miles or maybe even less in pure EV mode.” Well, the basic fact is that the current state of battery technology means that almost all the time you will be able to go somewhere between 25 miles and 50 miles and not use a drop of gas. It depends on a lot of things most notably how cold it is and your driving style. The key is that on average, over the course of the year, Volt owners will get about 35 miles per charge. Personally, from April to November of last year I was averaging in the mid to high 40′s in range and I didn’t use a drop of gas during the week during my commute.

        The point being you can look at voltstats.net and see how well the Volt works for a lot of people. Some people are putting my 300 MPG figure to shame. And you know what, on top of that, the Volt is just fun to drive. It’s zero to 30 time is 3.2 seconds and it handles really well. But don’t take my word for it. Go test drive one. I guarantee you that the first time you drive a real car that has the torque of an electric motor will be an eye opener.

        So instead of saying that this car fails to live up to even minimal EV expectations can you not be fair and say “ok, for some people it actually not only lives up to EV expectations but far exceeds them.” Then let’s have a conversation about what percentage of owners are satisfied with their purchase of the Volt. When you learn what real Volt owners actually say you may be surprised. Be well.

    • 0 avatar
      mbitsko

      Common sense tells me that if I can’t get more than 25 miles while using the heater in the MIDDLE OF WINTER and driving in the same traffic I always drive in every day then it’s a pretty pathetic excuse for a car. Come on….25 miles? Not everybody can putter around open highways at half the posted speed limit with no lights, radio or heat all the time. The Volt is worthless in the real world that the vast majority of us inhabit.

      Besides, electricity doesn’t just magically appear from distilled rainbows and unicorn juice. It comes from burning fossil fuels, or from nuclear power plants, or environment-destroying hydroelectric dams (very little of that), or raptor-killing windmills (a negligible contribution to the nation’s power grid) or from solar panels. (Even more negligible, and it would take acres of them and a sunny day to charge up your 25 mile car.)

      A strict and shrewd accounting will show that the average gasoline-burning SUV has less impact on the environment than any Volt or Leaf.

      Why are there no diesel-electric hybrids? That would be an urban vehicle that would return well over 100 mpg, have a real world climate control system, and several hundred miles of range.

      • 0 avatar
        fredgold52

        That’s a very good question. If GM hadn’t bastardized the 350 V8 by trying to make a Diesel out of it and thereby permanently fouling the American taste for Diesel cars, your idea would already be on the road.

        I have no love for either General Motors or Government Motors. The later is just a less efficient version of the former.

      • 0 avatar
        glen

        The reason there are no diesel electric hybrids in the US is our EPA emissions requirements. All car companies have fleet average requirements for emissions. Diesels have higher particulate emissions than their petrol counterparts. To meet additional requirements specific to the model of car in question, it costs more money to have an engine that the EPA will certify. This not only explains why auto makers do not sell diesel hybrids here, but also why very few f hem offer any diesel engines in their passenger cars at all.

    • 0 avatar
      CobaltTugger

      “So this guy gets in and drives it like 99% of the population would and then complains that he didn’t get the advertised range?”

      FIFY

      Yeah, I’d complain. Unless they plan on selling all Volts in Southern California, they need to be able to deal with a wide variety of weather conditions; or adjust their marketing.

    • 0 avatar
      JIMMYV22

      Thanks for making the point that this car is worthless and the taxpayer got swindeled yet again. If you are saying that thie car cant run with the heat on high, well then this car is good in the 9 states that dont get cold. But wait if it cant run with the heater on , then it surely cant run with the air on, so basicalll y park it in the summer, so no political agenda just truth. For 47,000 I can get a great new car that I can use a radio, air/heat, wipers all at the same time, even have the ole seat warmers going.

      • 0 avatar
        Baby Koop

        Jimmy, I’m not sure you are correctly understanding the performance capability of the Volt. I live in Northern Virginia and when it is cold outside I put on the heater, can drive up to 100 miles an hour (I haven’t yet but you can) and I’ll get about 30 miles of pure EV range.

        Once I run out of juice I’m not stuck on the side of the road or anything. Just like what happened in that video, the gas engine kicks in (did you notice that you couldn’t hear anything and there was no apparent difference when that happened? Pretty cool, huh?) and I can go as far as I want to go as long as I need to because of the gas engine backup.

        So yes, you can use the radio, air/heat, wipers and yes, the seat warmers of the Volt and do so virtually silently in a car that is really fun to drive. Will your pure EV range suffer? Of course. But you will still get helluva good miles per gallon in the Volt as compared to anything else on the road.

        People used to bash the Prius but have come around to accept that it’s a pretty decent car, sells in pretty good numbers and that it gets 50 MPG is pretty cool. The Volt is a better car all around and the average MPG is well over 100 MPG with some people getting over 700 MPG. Sure, sales aren’t great yet but they weren’t great for the Prius at the start either. People didn’t understand the Prius and laughed at it. People don’t understand the Volt and say it’s a junk car. Ask people who have driven a Volt and you will get an entirely different answer.

        But don’t trust me. Go drive one for yourself. You may not be able to afford one (I don’t know your income) but to say that it isn’t a great car is to not understand it. There is a reason it won the Motor Trend Car of the Year, the North American Car of the Year, many of other prestigious awards and has the highest customer satisfaction rating of any car according to Consumer Reports. You can still hate the bailout and the tax policy but the car itself is just awesome. Be well.

    • 0 avatar
      rodc1128

      Do you know first hand he drove the car less efficiently or are you suggesting he should have drove the car without the heat in the winter? It seems you are the one with an agenda.

    • 0 avatar
      NoGuff

      “So this guy gets in cranks the heat way up, drives inefficiently in the middle of winter and then complains that he didn’t get the advertised range?”
      –If he can’t drive the car like a regular car, like its supposed to be driven, and used, especially by someone who bought it, what is the point in owning one? It’s supposed to be a car. Why would you treat it like a priceless, fragile work of art? Seems like a political agenda can overrule common sense.

    • 0 avatar
      TheNerdyGuy

      The guy is wearing a Fleece Coat, so I don’t think he has the “heat cranked up”.

    • 0 avatar
      mmilesll

      If I spent $40,000 plus for this piece of crap it better go further than 25 miles. And the political agenda you were talking about I’m sure was the nobama clowns trying to run a car company.

    • 0 avatar
      RHO

      Most people who spend 40K on a car expect it to get them to work and back, and they want a heater and AC. The Turd is the biggest bust since the Vega.

  • avatar
    tced2

    I agree, was he running heat or AC during this drive? Both of those items take (electrical) energy to run when driving on electric power alone. This would reduce the range available.

    (other note, with the mentioned Nissan Leaf, you run out of electricity, you stop moving because there is no more energy available for moving the car. With the Volt, the gas engine starts and generates some electricity for continuing to move the car).

    • 0 avatar
      Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

      Actually, when it’s humid and chilly out, both A/C and heater will run to defog windows. I typically kick on the remote start to run both while the car is still charging before I leave in the morning.

      Also, Volt defaults to ‘Comfort’ mode for its climate control, and in most cases ‘Eco’ is adequate though it takes longer to bring the interior up to the desired temp.

      Alls I can say is: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.urlesque.com/media/2010/05/haterafrican.jpg

      • 0 avatar
        Volt 230

        just open the window in the summer and wear winter gear when it’s cold, that is what I did with my old $500.00 Beetle that had neither A/C or working heater, and stop complaining

      • 0 avatar
        Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

        Who’s complaining? I can round-trip on electric for my commute even when it’s near freezing out (or 115F+ on the pavement, as it was round here last summer). I just remote start it before I get in the shower in AM, and before I leave the office in PM, and it gets to temp and defrosts if needed by the time I get to it.

        BTW, the Volt will turn the engine on for battery and cabin heating at or below freezing.

      • 0 avatar
        drsjr1

        If I pay $47,000 for a car, I expect the heat and AC to work.

      • 0 avatar
        APaGttH

        If you pay $47K for a car that costs $32.5K you’re stupid.

  • avatar
    Rob Finfrock

    Lambaste the report and the source all you want. None of it is patently untrue (although there is some right-wing hyperbole, and typical bubbleheaded idiocy from the brunette.)

    All he did was drive the car the way most Americans drive their cars, a task the Volt is woefully ill-equipped to handle despite GM’s all-electric range claims.

    • 0 avatar
      mike978

      You make a reasonable point about the car being driven typically (http://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/volt/2011/road-test.html – During Edmunds testing, we recorded a low of 27 miles, a high of 39 miles and an average of 33 miles.). I also agree about the hyperbole from at least 3 of the people on the stage.
      I would like to see Nissan let them borrow a Leaf for a week. But now having seen this I suspect Nissan wouldn`t touch it with a barge pole. Because he really could “breakdown” and be left stranded in a Leaf.

      • 0 avatar
        GS650G

        Except that the Leaf would not have run out of electricity so soon. It was tested for 3 days by TTAC and performed quite well. In the Summer. In Hills.
        And it costs a lot less. Without the bailout.

      • 0 avatar
        mike978

        GS – of course the Leaf wouldn`t have run out so soon. It is a pure electric car with no other means of propulsion so I would hope it has a longer range.
        The Leaf has the same tax credits and freebies (federal and utility company). I also recall federal dollars )loan guarantees) being used (http://m.technologyreview.com/energy/39578/).

        The Leaf is $5000 cheaper – so both are expensive. Especially when compared to a comparable sized compact car and >$10000 for gas.

      • 0 avatar
        golfballtx

        Tax credits and freebies from utility companies don’t impact production and loan guarantees have negligible cost if they are not triggered, so govt involvement in the Leaf is minimal at best…and STILL too much!

      • 0 avatar
        lost in space

        Some group ( I forget who, but may have been a magazine or news team)tested a Leaf up North a few months ago.
        Of course it was winter and cold, but It would only go 40 miles at 55mph!!!
        I think, this report here is misleading. First off, the Volt is designed to go 40 miles on a full charge before the gas engine has to kick on and supplement the charge. Cold weather negatively suppresses any battery.(slows down the chemical reactions)
        Also, Im sure if its rated at 40 miles gas-free then, using the AC or heater would be expected to shorten that somewhat.
        I think the Volt works as designed and its a great concept.
        If you commute with mostly short trips and you are able to plug in the vehicle you could possibly rarely use any gasoline.
        The electricty from a power plant is much cheaper and I have read that a whole month of driving would normally be only about $50 as compared to $300-$400 in gas.
        The better concept as somebody mentioned here would be a Diesel-electric set up. A finely tuned steady state diesel generator (similar to a locomotive) could potentially get consistantly over 100+ mpg.

      • 0 avatar
        bobdole1979

        Top Gear did an excellent video about the Nissan Leaf however it still has the problem of 90 mile range. I live in Ft Myers Florida and with that range it would take me 2 days to get to Tampa or Miami because I would have to stop and charge for 12 hours.

        We need to invest in Hydrogen. It is cheap, easy to produce, emits 0 carbon emisions and its possible. BMW already has a car that runs on both hydrogen and gasoline go look it up on youtube.

    • 0 avatar
      mmilesll

      The “brunette” is an attorney and certainly much smarter than you will ever be. And what’s with the “right-wing” crap, the car is junk and politics doesn’t enter into it.

      • 0 avatar
        Rob Finfrock

        It’s called “pandering to the predominantly left-wing crowd commenting on a TTAC article about the Chevy Volt,” mmilesII.

        (Though I do maintain “the brunette” sounded absolutely moronic in this piece. Not all attorneys are particularly intelligent, so much as they are adept at memorizing bits of legal minutiae and relevant talking points.)

        I also believe that the Volt is remedially-engineered junk. It’s a half-assed attempt at a hybrid that was forced on the market thanks to the bailout, so politics absolutely enters into the picture.

      • 0 avatar
        rpn453

        Regardless of her education level, “bubbleheaded idiocy” described her position on that panel perfectly. Maybe it’s just an act, but it was hard to tolerate watching anymore once she began blabbering. It seemed like a decent discussion apart from her “contributions”. They must keep her around to attract the Jersey Shore crowd. Maybe the advertisers believe that it is easier to sell products to those people than the ones who can’t stand listening to her. They’re probably right.

  • avatar
    Lokki

    So he’s not supposed to use the heat in the winter or the ac in the summer? You two are kidding, right?

    It’s sad that I have to preface my remarks (before you pigeon-hole me) by telling you I have never watched Fox news, AND that I subscribe to the New Yorker, but then it’s also sad that I have to say that I agree with that guy.

    I can’t see that the Volt fulfills any practical role except as bait for government money and as fairy dust for true believers. It’s not a great electric car, a great hybrid car, or a great car, AND it’s an expensive car.

    • 0 avatar
      mike978

      I am not saying it a good car. Rather all electric hybrids (Leaf, Focus Electric, Prius PHV and the Volt) are expensive, have long charging times, all have the tax credit and all have limitations – especially the pure electric Leaf and Focus.

      To me the Prius seems the best bet out of the four.

      • 0 avatar
        DC Bruce

        The likely embarrassing question is that, on this particular commute, an ordinary Prius likely uses less gasoline during a 5-day week than this thing, because of the Volt’s rather poor fuel economy when running on the ICE.

        I didn’t see any evidence of abnormal use by this driver and, the East Coast is having a mild winter this year.

      • 0 avatar
        txcyclone

        Actually I own a Honda Insight… get about 48 mpg… and the car is about $23000 fully loaded (voice navi and such) I think it’s the best of the bunch :)

      • 0 avatar
        jokila

        Forget electric. Buy higher efficiency. Diesel cars like VW Golfs and Jettas. My last tank was 780 miles range. I averaged 48mpg and I drove it like a normal driver.

      • 0 avatar
        replica

        I get the worst compared to a hybrid or diesel, at 36mpg. However, my car was only $16k in its highest trim.

      • 0 avatar
        RHO

        Exactly. And the Turd (Volt) is actually far more expensive than the list price. It has been calculated to actually cost 250K per unit with all the Federal subsidies. All this for a car that can only be justified with the false premise that we are out of oil.

    • 0 avatar
      jhott997

      You said it precisely correct: It is not a great car. It does not deliver what was promised: 40 miles of “all electric” driving. It is expensive and not particularly efficient when the I/C engine is running.
      Another “almost there” product from GM.
      And to those who suggest the commenter was doing something wrong by driving with the heat and radio on: Are you nuts?

      The Volt is a fail by a failed corporation.

      • 0 avatar
        mike978

        I agree it doesn’t get the claimed range, but then most cars fail in the claimed fuel economy stakes. The Leaf was claimed to get 100 miles, people actually seem to get 70.

        I have been surprised by the sales of the Leaf, since it is by definition a niche vehicle and for those with another car since when you run out of electricity you are out.

      • 0 avatar
        Herm

        The Volt can get up to 70 miles on the battery, in the hands of careful drivers.. and the Leaf can get as low as 50 miles of range in winter conditions.

        YMMV.. amazing how that works.

      • 0 avatar
        Baby Koop

        RHO, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and guess that you don’t know that you are repeating a lie regarding the $250k subsidy.

        I’m sure you have heard the old saying “there are lies, damn lies and statistics.” It’s a funny line and gets to the heart of the fact that you can do calculations with real numbers that really cloud the issue.

        For example, when the “think tank” that first came up with that statistic they had to take into account certain information. For example, they would need to determine the amount of the subsidy and what it was used for? What if I told you that the subsidy was about $3 billion and it was for a plant that would produce different types of vehicles including Buicks, Cadillacs and Volts? You would be forced with a decision of how to allocate that $3 billion over those different vehicles, right? What if the “think tank” said, “Screw it, just assign all the cost of the subsidy to the Volt and forget about the Buicks and the Cadillacs”. What would you say about their honesty and ethics?

        After they made this decision they would have to come up with a “per Volt” statistic. So how many Volts do you want to allocate this subsidy to? Some possible choices are all the Volts produced in the first 6 months; all the Volts produced in the first year; all the Volts expected to be built in the first 5 years; all the Volts expected to be built over the lifetime of the plant that is building them. The way that a person would answer that question and report out the statistic that results says a lot about that organization and the people involved with developing that statistic.

        So RHO, how would you come up with your calculations? Would you assign the cost of the subsidy across all the vehicles that benefit from that subsidy or only to the one that you choose to make a political issue of? And how many of the cars do you choose to be the denominator? I am sincerely interested in your thinking on this subject because the $250k figure is thrown out by a lot of people but will even one of them say how they believe the calculations of a “per Volt subsidy” should be made and is that the same calculation that was used to come up with the $250k figure?

    • 0 avatar
      redliner

      Of course he is allowed to use the heat/ac. My point being that one should not be surprised and outraged when an electric car suffers diminished range due to these demands.

      “It’s not a great electric car, a great hybrid car, or a great car, AND it’s an expensive car.”

      I generally agree. It’s not a great electric car because it has a fairly short range, and it’s less practical than a Prius due to the 4 passenger limit. Oh, and you could almost buy two Prii for the price of one loaded up Volt.

      HOWEVER, at present it is the only series parallel hybrid on the market. I am happy that GM at least put this technology on the market. I fully hope to see it refined in the coming years. Choice and variety are king.

      • 0 avatar
        jkross22

        The issue with GM is that for some time, it’s been more smoke and mirrors than anything else. Remember this:

        http://www.treehugger.com/cars/chevy-volt-rated-at-230-mpg-in-city-driving.html

        The bilboard that claims 230 mpg?

        This is GM’s problem. Overpromising and underdelivering. It’s not just limited to the Volt, but the Volt personifies GM’s pr problem. Even when sucking at the gov’t teet, it just couldn’t bring itself to be honest with its customers.

        At the core of it, that is why many thought the bailout was bad. It not only rewarded inept products, it rewarded a company who lied about it’s products.

        BTW, the same goes for the banks that got bailed out. Too big too fail ought to have meant it’s time to break the banks apart so they no longer represented that level of systemic risk.

      • 0 avatar
        Baby Koop

        I guess the way I would explain it to a person who hasn’t really followed the 40 mile range claim and the 230 MPG claim is that it is a new type of technology and a new way of understanding these types of performance.

        In my particular case I have had a Volt for over 10 months, travelled over 12,000 miles and I’m personally over 300 MPG and my average EV range is greater than 40 miles. So, for me, GM absolutely has delivered on their two main promises. But Your Mileage May Vary (YMMV) and not all people are getting the same performance.

        The 40 mile EV range is particularly confusing for some but if you simply understand that in really cold weather the battery doesn’t perform as well and you drain it faster by putting on the heat. It’s not surprising that you would then be below that 40 mile range. But when you have mild temperature (say 40 to 80 degrees) then you can get 40 and even 50 miles of range (once again YMMV). That is why GM rightly ditched the 40 miles of EV range claim and went to a more accurate claim that you get about 25 to 50 miles of range depending on quite a few different variables.

        Anyway, as a conservative Republican I’m pretty disgusted at Fox for all the blatant lying. This wasn’t the worst segment on Fox regarding the Volt but I mean Eric said that when you added up the gas and the electric equivalent that he got only about 30 MPG. Well, giving him the benefit of the doubt, he might just of forgot how he did his calculation but the Volt is rated at 37 MPG if you never plug it in. I’m personally getting about 43 MPG when in CS mode (gas burning) and, as I said, in total I’m up over 300 MPG. Eric seems to be either forgetfull or is out and out lying about his 30 MPG figure.

  • avatar
    Secret Hi5

    Sorry, I couldn’t make past the first 10 seconds.

  • avatar
    Pch101

    It’s fairly obvious that the reporter and his employer have very large political axes to grind. Not fair, not balanced.

    GM itself claims that the Volt’s electric range is about 25-50 miles. Fox should be well aware of this fact, as it published the AP wire story that made that point:

    “DETROIT – General Motors on Thursday altered the expected range that its Chevrolet Volt electric car can travel on battery power alone.

    “The automaker now says the Volt can go 25 to 50 miles on battery power, compared with the 40 miles it had previously said it would travel.

    “The distance will depend on temperature, terrain, driving technique and the age of the lithium-ion batteries.”

    http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2010/09/24/chevy-clarifies-volt-electric-range-miles

    If the reporter is accurate and got about 25 miles on a charge, then he got what he was promised. Truthiness in action.

    • 0 avatar
      jhott997

      “If the reporter is accurate and got about 25 miles on a charge, then he got what he was promised. Truthiness in action.”
      HE WAS PROMISED 40 MILES!!!!

      So it’s OK for GM to change the definition of what the Volt is capable of AFTER telling everyone who would listen that it will go “40 miles on a charge” but it’s not OK for people to criticize the marketing campaign? Come on.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        “HE WAS PROMISED 40 MILES”

        Er, you need to go work on those reading skills, champ.

      • 0 avatar
        jhott997

        PCH101.
        Again, you miss the point!
        I can read and get the bait and switch argument you are presenting.
        The fact of the matter is that the GM propaganda set the market up for “40 miles of electric driving”.
        It was not until real world experience told otherwise that GM changed the definition.
        Oh whatever, I give up. This is useless.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        “I can read”

        Apparently not.

      • 0 avatar
        APaGttH

        And Nissan promised 100 miles in a Leaf!

        WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

        You mean I can’t use the heat, AC, or headlights in a Leaf unless I want to go 100 miles to???

        WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

      • 0 avatar
        Baby Koop

        jhott997, I hear what you are saying but I would ask you to consider the following scenario.

        The engineers were out there designing, building, testing and re-testing the Volt under various driving situations, driving styles and climates. They gather their data and present it to the marketing team.

        So the marketing team asks the engineering team how many miles the Volt will go on a full charge. The engineers, being data driven and detailed oriented, answer “well, that depends on a great many factors. Are you interested in the range in Minnesota in January? Are you interested in the range on the highway going 70 miles an hour? Are you interested in the range in city driving?”

        Now marketing typically wouldn’t be intested in all the details. They are looking at the big picture and how they can sell the car so they want to get down to basics. “Ok, how about you give me a number that the average Volt can get over the course of a year.” From an engineering point of view that isn’t a great question because it is very imprecise but the answer essentially came back “About 40 miles”. Marketing debates it and some say let’s go with that number and say the Volt gets about 40 miles per charge because we need to keep the message as simple as possible. Others say that isn’t the correct approach because the variability of driving experience is too big. One side won and another side lost.

        Well, the truth is that in some months, in some climates you are going to get more than that. In some months, in some climates you are going to get less than that. What is far more accurate to say is that the Volt will typically get between 25 to 50 miles of pure EV range and GM has decided to switch to this framing of the issue because an average for the entire year doesn’t tell the whole story. I understand why marketing people would want to go with the 40 miles figure. I can understand why GM switche to the more accurate but slightly more confusing 25 to 50 mile range statistic. But you know what sometimes you will actually get less than 25 and sometimes you will get more than 50. So even that is “wrong”. It’s a difficult topic to address because so many people (many of them on this board) don’t understand what the Volt is and what it does.

        And to close this comment, obviously, I don’t have any inside information on how GM decided on 40 miles of range and then switched it up to 25 to 50 miles. Yes, it makes sense to me and I have followed the debate amongst Volt owners on how to market the car and, frankly, we are all over the board on it. The Volt is VERY UNIQUE and until you drive one you really don’t understand what type of performance it has and what kind of real world mileage it can actually get for a person in your situation. For me I’m over 300 MPG and I smile every day I drive it. It’s that good and, not that it should matter, I’m a lifelong Republican.

    • 0 avatar
      niky

      Waaaah!!! What do you mean I can’t get 40 mpg out of my Elantra if I drive at 100 mph? They liiiiiieeeeed!

    • 0 avatar
      JapesMacfarland

      He only had 18.8 miles to go, genius. (he even said add a couple miles for a dunkin donut stop) So it is *less* than the 25 minimum claimed by gov motors. (He also said he’s a shareholder and wanted to be sold on it; so you’re calling him a liar.) So before you go here calling people who respond to you stupid, unable to read, this guy in the video a liar, etc. just so you can stick up for your Statist, big gov is always the solution, leftist crap; try to get your facts right.

      “the bigger the government the smaller the citizen.”
      Dennis Prager

  • avatar
    Sundowner

    It’s an approximate attempt at a report, but any legitimacy they might have had was frittered away by typical Fox ‘news’ childish nonsense. No one who saw this changed their mind about the car on either side. The reviewer had a perfectly good opportunity to add to the electric car discussion and instead elected to act like a jackarse on TV. Good job.

    • 0 avatar
      joeaverage

      Range anxiety – so GM put a gasoline engine in it for folks like the Fox News Reporter. I’d rather have an all electric like the Leaf. I drove the Volt and it was sweet even if it was a bit styling challenged to me.

      I have more or less the same driving habits week after week after week. If I needed to roam around a big place like NYC I’d drive my other car.

  • avatar
    Lokki

    Pch101 -

    So he told the truth about what happened to him but that wasn’t fair? Got it. You want him to be balanced – tell us what he SHOULD have added.

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      “So he told the truth about what happened to him but that wasn’t fair?”

      You didn’t bother to read my link, apparently.

      Reporter on Fox News: “The car, on a full charge, gets only 25 miles.”

      -vs-

      AP wire story published previously: “The automaker now says the Volt can go 25 to 50 miles on battery power”

      Last time that I checked, 25 equals 25. Maybe it doesn’t on Fox, but it does out here in the real world.

      As I noted, GM promised 25 miles, and the Faux News dude is complaining that he got 25 miles. Are you seeing the problem here?

      • 0 avatar
        jhott997

        GM promised 40 miles on a full battery charge!!!! It was not until REAL people started driving REAL Volts in the REAL world and achieved a REAL 25 miles on electric only did GM change the whole “40 miles on a charge” propaganda.
        Let’s at least agree to those facts, please.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        “Let’s at least agree to those facts, please.”

        Are you a troll, or illiterate?

        Headline: “Chevy Clarifies Volt Electric Range at 25-50 Miles”

        Date: September 10, 2010

        http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2010/09/24/chevy-clarifies-volt-electric-range-miles

        Now, go away and allow the adults to converse in peace.

      • 0 avatar
        jhott997

        Pch101:
        “Now, go away and allow the adults to converse in peace.”
        Thanks. I will. You just proved my implied point that you are an obnoxious know-it-all not interested in the facts or anybody else’s opinion but your own.

      • 0 avatar
        protomech

        Exactly when did REAL people drive REAL Volts in the REAL world prior to September 2010?

        FACT: Driving style and conditions substantially alter vehicle energy consumption. This is true irrespective of the drive technology. “Your Mileage May Vary” is more appropriately stated “Mileage Varies”. Range / fuel consumption specifications are provided for a specific vehicle tests which are intended to be representative of typical use scenarios.

        FACT: Electric vehicles use significantly more energy at higher speeds and when heating the vehicle cabin, compared to our experience with combustion vehicles. The flip side to this is that combustion vehicles are extremely inefficient in city driving and slightly less so on the freeway.

        FACT: The EPA rates the Volt at 35 miles electric range. Again, YMWV – people have gotten as low as 25 miles or as high as 50+ miles. .. you know, just like Chevy updated their range guidance to indicate prior to selling the Volt.

      • 0 avatar
        DC Bruce

        Only a lawyer or a PR hack would swallow the word “clarify” in misused this context. “Clarify” in the commonly-understood sense connotes a prior state of confusion, which, thanks to the new statement, has been alleviated.

        In this context, “clarify” is used as an improper synonym for “changed,” which the GM flacks didn’t want to use for obvious reasons, as in “changed the claimed electric only mileage of the Volt from 40 miles to a range between 25 and 50 miles.

        What’s interesting about this reporter’s experience is that it did not appear he was driving at speed, which would tend to reduce that range even further. (Unlike ICE-powered vehicles whose engine efficiency increase more than compensates for addeded aerodynamic drag at higher speeds, up to a point, electric vehicles experience none of these efficiency gains. The faster you make them go, the more power they consume.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        “In this context, “clarify” is used as an improper synonym for “changed,””

        If you believe that it was improper, then blame Fox News.

        In many outlets, this AP story was run with the headline “GM now says Volt can go 25-50 miles on batteries”. It would appear that Fox opted to rewrite the headline. (It is not unusual for news outlets to alter headlines on wire copy.)

      • 0 avatar
        permagrin

        The reporter said nothing inaccurate. I don’t get your point, 25 does equal 25, and the reporter’s opinion was that that sucks. Is he supposed to be super impressed that the car got 25 miles when GM said it could? Was he supposed to tell everyone then to go out and buy one? His point was that he couldn’t even drive to work without switching to gas. After tens of billions of taxpayer money, his point was the 25 mile range sucks for the price along with the tax incentives. And it does. And it shows, no one is buying this car.

    • 0 avatar
      GS650G

      PCH101 – Making friends on TTAC as always.

  • avatar
    galaxygreymx5

    I got 48 miles of electric range out of my Volt yesterday, but I guess exceeding the EPA rating is less interesting.

    Drove normally, A/C, freeway etc.

  • avatar
    Carlson Fan

    This report has everything to do with polictics and nothing to do with the Volt. The one thing I found out when I demo’d a Volt is that the reduced EV range due to cold temps(we where gettin around 33 miles per charge) means it doesn’t take as long to recharge. I was recharging on 110 VAC in 6-7 hours. So if your range is down to 25 miles due to the cold it should recharge in 4-5 hourson 110 VAC, not 12.

    The “Five” need to be called “Dumb & Dumber X 2.5″. What a bunch of ignorant simpletons!…….LOL

    • 0 avatar
      gslippy

      @Carlson: We finally agree on something. :)

      Such reporting reminds this conservative as to why I don’t watch Fox News.

      This wasn’t journalism, it wasn’t scientific, it wasn’t true, and it doesn’t represent my views of the Volt. Truly unbiased reporting would have explained how it works, how it came to be, and explained both sides of why it should or should not exist. Surely six minutes is enough to provide a quality report on all that.

    • 0 avatar
      Baby Koop

      Carlson Fan, I’m not sure I agree with your reasoning. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a Volt owner and a huge fan of it but I believe, regardless if you are fully depleted in January or in the summer time, that the charging rate, and hence time, is not affected. In fact, (I definitely could be wrong) I think that the temperature would actually negatively impact the charging time in the winter.

      It would be an interesting discussion to have and see what the real world situation actually is. If I had to take a guess though I would say that it takes longer to fully re-charge in the winter rather than in summer but I admit it is just a guess.

  • avatar
    TW4

    It’s cold outside so I’m not surprised. I don’t remember him giving information about his fuel and electricity expenditures for the week.

    Overall, I think this illustrates a fundamental problem with the Volt and the Leaf. At the current price point, and in the current economic environment, both of those cars are really toys for more affluent buyers. Affluent buyers may be a bit more in touch with the ‘big-picture’ economic or ecological concerns of the nation, but wealthier buyers are also hypersensitive to inconvenience. They are generally accustomed to getting exactly what they want exactly when they want it b/c they can afford instant gratification. Driving is often not a labor of love so anything that requires extra time or attention is interpreted as an unacceptable flaw in the eyes of casual affluent buyers/drivers. I believe the Saudi royal family are also major investors in NewsCorp, which doesn’t help matters, either.

    The anger about bailouts, union impropriety, and demand subsidies to affluent buyers are understandable, but they are ad hominem attacks against the vehicle itself. Bottom line, the vehicle is inconvenient for a majority of its affluent target market, and it is doubly inconvenient for impatient New Yorkers who don’t even need a commuting vehicle in most instances.

  • avatar
    stroker49

    The fact is that electric cars is not a good idea. I’ve heard for +30 years that “soon the batteries will be really good, small lightweight……” it has not happened yet. We are consuming about 30% of the energy for transportation, 30% for heating houses and buildings and 30% for industrial processes. To change over from fossil fuel to something else is most difficult for vehicles. You can heat water by burning a pine, try to drive, or worse, fly with pine-power. You can burn wood in order to make electricity instead of coal. We should start with replacing fossil fuel for the other 60% of our energy consumption first.

  • avatar
    Lokki

    Pch101 -

    Tell me what that word ‘clarifies’ means again will you? As when used in the context of “GM clarifies the range of the Volt”.

    I’m an ignorant New Yorker subscriber, not an adult or anything, so I’m not understanding why GM would need to ‘clarify’ the range of the Volt unless people had gotten a wrong impression about it. Thus I guess the word doen’t mean what poor ignorant me ‘n my ‘ol bud Webster thunk.

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      “I’m not understanding why GM would need to ‘clarify’ the range of the Volt unless people had gotten a wrong impression about it.”

      Argh. Some of you seem absolutely fixated on not understanding this.

      Note the date of the wire story. Then compare to the release date of the car. Notice how the clarification occurred before the car was ever sold.

      During the time that the car has been on the market, it has been advertised with having an electric range of 25-50 miles. The reporter got 25 miles. 25=25.

      If you bought a car that was rated 25 city/ 30 highway, then drove it around town and got 25 mpg, you’d have nothing to complain about and you’d know it. So it should be pretty obvious that this Fox News guy is a complete clown for complaining about 25 miles of electric-only range, when that is exactly within the parameters that are provided by the manufacturer.

      The 40 mile figure was tossed out many months before the first Volt ever hit the streets. It isn’t relevant.

  • avatar
    Hank

    Did GM ditch Fox for advertising time or something, because those bafoons on their morning show seem to have it in for the Volt, big time. If GM hasn’t, I say they should.

    I bet these guys don’t diss their Escalades for getting bailout money.

  • avatar
    Hank

    I bet these guys don’t diss their Escalades for getting bailout money.

  • avatar
    stroker49

    Very interessting discussion…NOT. No matter what has been promised or not. Not a good idea with an electric car.

  • avatar
    FJ60LandCruiser

    So the Volt, when driven in real world conditions, gets woefully inadequate fuel range–nowhere near the 40 miles touted by GM for a car that so far has to turn a profit, is engineered in the usual half-assed GM way (the battery may or may not catch fire), and seems to be more of a political statement than a feasible automotive since if you’re planning to drive one of these, you need to do so in perfect weather conditions to places with dedicated charging stations… otherwise you’ll be just lugging the heavy-ass battery pack around with a woefully underpowered combustion engine.

    This is clearly biased right wing ignerrant reporting for a racist Southern audience and in no way reflects this incomplete consumer product that wouldn’t sell without government incentives, mandates, and people with more eco sense than common sense to see its many inadequacies.

    …also, they made a snarky (and ignorant right wing) comment on the morning show that since the car runs on electricity it runs on coal, since that’s where most of the electricity in the US comes from, altho in NY nuclear power is also an option.

    • 0 avatar
      bikegoesbaa

      “if you’re planning to drive one of these, you need to do so in perfect weather conditions to places with dedicated charging stations”

      I don’t yet have a strong opinion of the Volt either way, but it seems to me that your statement is inaccurate.

      I can imagine many reasonable and fairly common situations where a Volt would be useful regardless of weather or the presence of charging stations at the destination. For example, somebody with a 10-mile round trip commute who charges at home every night would probably be able to take full advantage of the electric mode and only occasionally use gasoline.

      Now, it may not be the *best* or most efficient way to accomplish this, but being suboptimal is not the same thing as not being a “feasible automobile”.

      • 0 avatar
        Baby Koop

        bikegoesbaa, I own a Volt and have a VERY strong opinion of the car. At over 300 MPG it works quite well for me. But my net price was $35k, which is $9k more than I spent for the only other car I ever bought new, and not everyone can afford a $35k car.

        The truth is that for some people a Prius will be better, for some a Leaf will be better, for some a used Honda will be better, etc. etc. etc. The real question is what works out well for individuals that are looking for a car to buy. Right now not a lot of people are making the decision to buy the Volt. But I think that will change because if you listen to the people that actually own and drive the car the praise is almost universal. After all, out of any make or model it got the highest customer satisfaction ratings by Consumer Reports.

        The sad thing about it is that many people are confused about the technology. Does it go 40 miles per charge or 25? After you run out of battery power are you stranded? Can you use the heater? Can it go faster than 60 miles per hour? In time people will understand what the Volt can and can’t do and, by and large, they will be extremely pleased.

        But the even more worrisome aspect is that it is just too political and too many people that are threated by a car that, in the real world, is getting over 700 MPG by some owners. So people throw out stats like, “the government subsidizes the Volt at a rate of $250k per car”. Or you get some confused souls saying “yeah, but it uses electricity and electricity comes from coal and coal is dirty”. I call them confused because I imagine the people that say this aren’t a) usually for cleaning up the grid (ie they opppose renewable energy) and b) they haven’t a clue whether burning gas to go 40 miles causes more pollution than burning coal to go 40 miles.

    • 0 avatar
      Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

      Yeah, I drive mine like I stole it, and only get 35 miles on a charge.. Which, incidentally, costs me at most $1.25, and is often “free” (due to subsidized charger at my office parking garage). Heck, it was chilly this AM, I made it to the garage with only 13mi to spare! The horror!!

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      @FJ60LandCruiser:
      “So the Volt, when driven in real world conditions, gets woefully inadequate fuel range–nowhere near the 40 miles touted by GM for a car that so far has to turn a profit, is engineered in the usual half-assed GM way (the battery may or may not catch fire), and seems to be more of a political statement…”

      So is a jacked-up Hummer with a “Drill Baby Drill” sticker on the bumper (totally serious, one trolls my neighborhood).

      People buy cars to make statements all the time. At least the statement the Volt makes is a positive one.

    • 0 avatar
      DCrum35

      How exactly is that a “snarky” or “ignorant right wing” comment? The fact is most electricity comes from fossil fuels, coal, and nuclear energy, all things that the environmentalists are against. YET, that is what is fueling their electricty and the manufacturing of the cars to begin with. It is a valid point.

      Bottom line is GM failed to deliver what they originally were touting this car to be. It is losing money left and right and not meeting any expectations.

      The president and this administration made their bed with them, as they did with Solyndra and MANY other “green” companies when they gave them OUR tax dollars.

      If they want to promote “green” energy, I am all for it, but you don’t just simply hand pick companies to give money to. That is a recipe for failure and corruption and we have seen both several times over with this administration.

      • 0 avatar
        joeaverage

        And the previous presidents did the same with military technology companies and those projects lost as much and more as the Solyndra boondoggle. So why is it worse when Obama does it? I didn’t hear nearly the fuss when Republican presidents have done the same or worse.

        So you will be just as upset when Romney has his hand in the cookie jar?

  • avatar
    Lokki

    Pch101 -

    Ah now I understand. During election season it’s OK to promise anything ( and get government money to build the car) as long as the day before you take office you confess that you can’t actually do any of those things. You get to keep the billions you got and no one can complain any more because that’s not fair.

    So all that time while the taxpayers were paying for the development of the Volt GM had no idea that 40 miles electric range was a bad number. Remeber the complaint wasn’t as much about the Volt as about the billions of taxpayer money spent to develop a not-very-good car that didn’t deliver what had been hyped.

    By the way you never did respond with would have been a balanced thing to say. Too busy with willfully misunderstanding the point I guess.

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      “So all that time while the taxpayers were paying for the development of the Volt GM had no idea that 40 miles electric range was a bad number.”

      The midpoint between 25 and 50 is 37.5.

      40 sounds like a combined figure, which isn’t considerably different from the midpoint between 25 and 50.

      And the car wasn’t ready for market as of November 2008. Demanding that all of the performance specs be finalized two years ahead of schedule isn’t what I would expect from a car guy.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      @Lokki:

      The bailout wasn’t about JUST producing the Volt – it was about saving two companies, and all the jobs that went with them. The Volt was part of the PR campaign. Did it turn out 100% as advertised? No, but PCH is right – the company says it gets 25-50 miles on a charge, and the guy got 25 miles. Others have gotten more, including buff mags who’ve tested it.

      • 0 avatar

        @Lokki,

        I would add that if Pch says something you think you disagree with, you’re probably better off looking for the hole in your own argument.

        I am not particularly impressed with what I know of the Volt, and I think it’s too early for the Feds to be subsidizing purchases of EVs and plug-in hybrids. But I think the bailout was good policy; I just wish the big 3 had been busted up into smaller companies a long time ago, so that there would have been more competition among them, and so that a bailout would not have been necessary.

    • 0 avatar
      Baby Koop

      Lokki, you seem not to understand the timeline of the Volt development vis a vis the bailout. The Volt was originally conceived of by Lutz and Lauckner back in 2006. It made it’s debut as a concept car in, I believe, the North American Auto Show in January of 2007.

      Here’s a link to a timeline of all the bailouts (including the one to GM and Chrysler). http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/main/timeline/index

      I’ve never heard of propublica and have no idea if they are left or right wing but the data seems solid. So you have more time of Volt development before the bailout then after the bailout. Which, I would argue, would mean that the Volt being developed on the taxpayers dime is fairly misleading.

      Second, when I first heard of the Volt I had heard that GM was developing a car that could get 50 miles of pure EV range and would get about 50 MPG when in gas burning mode. Needless to say, when the EPA numbers came out it didn’t quite match up to my expectation. But when I got my Volt I was VERY impressed with the fit, finish, acceleration, technological goodies and other facets of the car. And, after 10 months of ownership I’m over 300 MPG, I’ve gotten over 50 miles of EV range (although my average is probably in the low 40′s but that’s a guess), and I’m getting 43 MPG while in gas burning mode.

      Please, please, please explain to me why you call that a “not-very-good car”. I promise I won’t willfully misunderstand you but I must say, I don’t understand why some people think that the car that has won an insane amount of awards and that is loved by all the people that have bought one call it a turd, a POS or a “not-very-good car”, especially when hardly any of the doubters have seen one let alone driven one.

  • avatar
    ajla

    I also have on good authority that the Chevy Volt is the official car of the ACLU, Kenya, and the Muppets.

  • avatar
    geeber

    I went to the Philadelphia Auto show this past week, and saw the Prius V. I was actually very impressed, and I’m not a Toyota fan. It seemed like a handy, economical, roomy car for people who want both great gas mileage and extra utility.

    That car – not reports on Fox News – is the real threat to the Volt.

  • avatar

    Oh fuck you FOX News! I’m so sick of you bullshit…

    I’m not a Democrat or a Republican. I can obviously see right through your fucking crap “reporting”!

    I have a good friend that owns a few Camaros (new and older), a leased Chevy Equinox (for his wife), and a leased Chevy Volt (for his daily commuter). He has praised the Volt up and down (no he doesn’t work for GM) while driving back and forth to work every day. His commute to/from work is different nearly every day of the week as he has to travel to several places around the county. He drives in warm and cold weather and understands how cars work enough to know that his mileage will vary based on weather and traffic conditions. Overall, he LOVES the car! He has barely used any gasoline since owning the car. He spends very little to charge it at night and has alternative places to charge it for free while at work or shopping.

    Are there reasons to trash the Volt? Absolutely! Any of them political? Absolutely not! Is the car fuel efficient and a technological advancement worth raving about? Absolutely! Is the car efficient and environmentally friendly to build? Absolutely not, but neither is any other hybrid (Prius).

    So, FOX News… FUCK YOU!

    Don’t forget it was George Bush that FIRST gave GM the DOE loans to start developing this car back before any kind of bailout was required. Also, it was George Bush that gave money to GM and Chrysler back in the end of 2008 to “tide them over” until the Obama administration took over. Both parties have everything to do with helping the auto industry out of this mess and the Volt has nothing to do with either of them! Neither side can take credit for this. Only the great team of engineers at GM can take credit for the Volt!

    • 0 avatar
      Rob Finfrock

      I think Pch just went off his meds.

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        LOL! +1 – My thoughts exactly.

        Where would we be without the insightful comments of those who possess all the pearls of wisdom?

        (BTW, I do believe that the Volt and every other EV/PEV/Hybrid should be available on the market for anyone who wants to buy one. I just don’t believe in taxpayer-funded bail outs, hand outs or nationalization of anything, anywhere, on Wall Street, Main Street, K Street, of banks, mortgage houses, investment firms or the auto manufacturers.)

  • avatar
    highrpm

    So this car costs much, much more than a Prius.

    Its much-hyped 40 miles of all-electric driving it not real.

    I have read Edmunds’ long-term test of the Volt. They combined charge costs plus gasoline fuel economy, and the Prius was cheaper to run than the Volt.

    The Volt can catch on fire.

    I would laugh at this whole mess if my tax dollars weren’t subsidizing it.

    • 0 avatar
      Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

      Incidentally, I’m just waiting on forms from my brokerage to file, but I should be getting about $11k back from teh Fed, including your $7500.. W00t!!

    • 0 avatar
      Russycle

      Every car ever made can catch on fire.

      • 0 avatar
        RHO

        Sure, but have you ever had one burn down your house? I have never had a car fire in over forty years of driving. There are Volt owners who lost their homes because of their cars.

      • 0 avatar
        niky

        I know several people who’ve had their car burn to the ground. Several Mitsubishis, one Toyota, a bunch of CR-Vs (big brouhaha over that one), and there was even a Ferrari that caught fire on the freeway near my place last year.

        Guess what? Cars powered by fuel catch on fire! Wow! Who knew? In the meantime, the Volt fire probe proved that to light a Volt on fire, you have to trash it so badly you deform the entire floorpan of the Volt. Which means fire is not something the average Volt owner will be worrying about after he’s been through a collision severe enough to compromise the entire crash structure.

        Of course, I’d love to hear which Volt owners had their homes burn down, because, if you haven’t noticed, the only fires reported were with Volts that had been used in crash tests… weeks after the test. When a gasoline car catches fire after a crash, it usually catches fire… well… right away.

      • 0 avatar
        Baby Koop

        RHO, I follow the Volt pretty closely but haven’t heard of a single instance where a Volt caused a fire that burnt down a house. Doesn’t mean that it didn’t happen but I haven’t seen an article that said the Volt burnt down a house. I’m guessing that if I ask for a link to the article you a) won’t do it because it doesn’t exist or b) will link to an article where a Volt was destroyed in a house fire that was not caused by the Volt (there were at least two instances of that happening).

        And PS, cars catch on fire over 180,000 times per year. How many electric cars have caught fire due to their batteries? Be well.

      • 0 avatar
        joeaverage

        Unless there was a new development the CR-V fires were due to oil change mechanics that didn’t look to see that the old oil filter O-ring stayed on the engine and then installed a new oil filter on top of that first o-ring. Naturally this leaked and oil got on the hot exhaust directly under it and caused a fire.

    • 0 avatar
      Baby Koop

      Highrpm, I follow the Volt on a day to day basis and I remember reading that Edmunds article. It wasn’t the worst piece of journalism and had a good amount of data in it as well. I don’t know if you saw the updates after the original Edmunds piece or not but they add even more info.

      Anyway, the one thing I would say that undermined his analysis was the electricity rates he was paying. IIRC, he was above $.25/kwh and may have been as high as $.34/kwh. If you have the link to the piece perhaps you could respond back here with it and let us know what his electricity rate was that would help guide the discussion. But my main point is that the average price of electricity is around $.11/kwh. Re-run the numbers on the national average and the math changes quite a bit. Run it at the numbers some people can pay on the off-peak rates (some absurd numbers like $.02 to $.07, IIRC) and it makes an even bigger difference.

      But his point was valid. For some people, the Prius makes more economic sense than the Volt. For others the Volt clearly wins. Now as for driving pleasure and performance, there is no comparison. The Volt wins handily every time. To some people that’s worth something. To others, not so much. But the Volt is a MUCH better car and only people that haven’t driven both will say otherwise. Whether or not it’s a better value proposition is debatable though.

  • avatar
    jpcavanaugh

    Who is the genius at GM who decided that it was a good idea to provide a Volt to a Fox News reporter who has been on a harangue about the car?

    So, a Fox reporter bashes your car on the air without driving it. This is not going to influence your primary demographic, so story over. But no. That old-time GM mindset is still there: “There is nothing wrong with our car. You just don’t understand it. We will give you one to drive. You will undoubtedly rave about it after that.” But the guy at Fox does not rave about it, in fact he bashes it on a much higher level. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

    Is there nobody at GM willing to acknowlege that the Volt is a work in progress, really suitable for a very small part of the car market – the early adapters who are willing to pay extra in money and inconvenience for the very latest technology. The car, as is, is not really suitable for more than about 10% of the car market right now, if that. It costs way too much for what it provides. But some people are OK with that. Those are your customers. Not Fox News.

  • avatar
    Volt 230

    Bias, I tell you! Fox is a right wing republican bastion, the Volt is a product of a liberal democratic administration, ’nuff said! Let Wolf Blitzer test it out in a 50 degree, flat low traffic region and then we’ll see.

  • avatar
    Volt 230

    I’m surprised they allowed the Volt in the Lincoln Tunnel they have a no flammables policy.

  • avatar
    RegistrationPlease

    Just a thought here.

    If CNN/MSNBC/ABC/CBS/NBC drove the Volt and got the same results it wouldn’t be a problem, right?

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      “If CNN/MSNBC/ABC/CBS/NBC drove the Volt and got the same results it wouldn’t be a problem, right?”

      If one of those outlets tested a Volt and got 25 miles, then I would expect the reviewer to say, “GM claims a range of 25-50 miles, and we got 25 miles, which is within the range claimed by GM.”

      When Fox gets 25 miles out of a car that is supposed to get 25 miles, then the Fox approach is to scream “OHMIGAWD WE GOT ONLY 25 MILES!!! OBAMA IS A KENYAN COMMUNIST!!!” out of one side of its mouth, while claiming to be “Fair and Balanced!” out of the other. I can only presume that everyone gets the joke, as the hypocrisy of such inaccuracy is obvious.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        Exactly.

      • 0 avatar
        CJinSD

        Eric Bolling was a top commodities trader and strategic adviser to the NYMEX Board of Directors before becoming a broadcaster. He takes for granted that people are crunching numbers in their heads when he says the car is capable of 25 miles for a buck and a half once a day for 46,000 subsidized dollars up front. That’s how he looks at the story, and he assumes other people are as smart as he is. For people who tune in to find out what to think because they don’t know how to think, there are other sources for news and commentary.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        “He takes for granted that people are crunching numbers in their heads when he says the car is capable of 25 miles for a buck and a half once a day for 46,000 subsidized dollars up front.”

        I would hope that most people are smart enough to understand that the Volt uses electricity sometimes and gasoline at other times, without all of the hyperbole and irrelevant drivel attached to this report.

        The results of the test indicate that the car does what it is supposed to do (at least now, while the battery is still relatively new.) Judging from this clown’s reaction, it isn’t doing what it is supposed to do. There is a profound disconnect between the results obtained and the reaction to them.

        If what the Volt can do doesn’t serve your purposes, then don’t buy one. (I know that I won’t.) But don’t omit so many facts from the story that the result effectively becomes a form of slander.

      • 0 avatar
        Steven02

        He also says that the things that he doesn’t like about the car are the GM bailout, that the UAW was put in front of investors, and tax subsidies going to the car. You can not like those things but those really aren’t features or problems with the car itself. If you want to complain about GM and the gov’t, sure, but let the car stand on its own merits.

        I also wonder about his driving math. GPS says 18.8 miles to work and add 2 or 3 for a stop and dunkin donuts. Then he says he got 25 miles on the way to work. He wasn’t at work when it ran out of EV charge. So, you are expecting that he is doing all of this math in his head?

      • 0 avatar
        Russycle

        Let’s not forget the part where he makes a big deal about the fact that he ran out of juice IN THE LINCOLN TUNNEL!!!!!!!!!!!…….at which point the gas motor kicked in seamlessly, as designed, and propelled him safely on his merry way. Wouldn’t surprise me if he “adjusted” his route to make sure it happened in the tunnel, I believe there’s a display of how many miles you have left on battery power.

        There’s no shortageof clueless tools at all those news outlets you mention, and yes, when they engage in the same type of hackery it’s a problem.

      • 0 avatar
        RHO

        If MSNBC tested it they would be gushing and getting thrills down their legs. So don’t give me the fair and balanced crap. The car is a failed vehicle. They can’t move them off the lots. The dealers don’t want them. I have a friend that works in a Chevy dealership and he said the car is considered a joke by the people who work there. Nobody who works there would buy one.

      • 0 avatar
        joeaverage

        I don’t watch MSNBC for many of the same reasons as Fox.

        What I can’t stand about Fox/Rush/Hannity and the others is the handwringing, hair on fire blowhard deliver of the information they provide. They are on about the same level as the monster truck advertisements.

  • avatar
    jerseydevil

    so this knucklehead ran out of gas and its the fault of the manufacturer? What a maroon, as Bugs Bunny would have said.

    I got a flat tire in a Lincoln once.

  • avatar
    wsn

    As a total bystander (Canadian), I can testify that GM did promise 40 mpg during the bailout process (i.e. when they needed my money). When they changed the estimate to 25 mph, I never saw it in any major news media. I read it here for the first time.

    The Volt isn’t efficient in ICE mode and costs so much. It’s simply a Cruze with a big battery. I would call it an interesting product placement, but I don’t think there is anything good or new in terms of technology.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      Again: the bailout wasn’t about the Volt, it was about saving the company.

      • 0 avatar
        Dan

        And keeping the Volt program alive in a market it couldn’t possibly succeed in was one requisite of getting the bailout.

        The California delegation on the board of directors of a car company: hilarity and red ink ensue.

    • 0 avatar
      Steven02

      GM didn’t promise 40 mpg. They promised 40 miles in EV mode. Then when the car was rated by the EPA, it said 35 miles in EV mode. That is when GM started using the 35 miles in advertising. The official EPA range is 25-50 for EV mode.

      This was carried by major news outlets in the US. For the record, Nissan promised 100 miles of range in EV mode and delivered 73, according to the EPA.

  • avatar
    aristurtle

    If I buy a laptop that has an advertised battery life of four hours, and I immediately start playing Skyrim on it or whatever, that battery will last ninety minutes, tops. The battery life is based on a “typical” cycle of Microsoft Word and a web browser, rounded up to the nearest hour by the marketing department. Everyone knows this and nobody gets upset. But I guess when it’s a car there’s an enormous scandal?

    • 0 avatar
      wsn

      If that laptop costs 2x the typical price, you would more or less expect it to perform better than other laptops.

      • 0 avatar
        Secret Hi5

        @wsn,
        The problem with that logic is that you are using battery life as the ONLY parameter for the extra cost of the product. There could be other tangible or non-tangible qualities of the more expensive laptop.

    • 0 avatar
      Dynasty

      Not when it is any car. But anything manufactured by GM.

      GM is the evil giant that provides everyone on here an outlet to feel good about themselves and how smart they are. The Volt is GM’s perceived Achilles heel. “Kill the giant monster, attack it at the Volt, that’s its weak spot!” “Hyundai will soon rule the world!!!” “Long live the Elantra!” “In Genesis we trust!!”

      If it were not for GM, they’d all have to fight amongst themselves. Or find another company who received tax money and rally against them. Yet be totally ignorant to the fact that just about every industrialized country outside of the US provides a lot of taxpayer assistance on a regular basis to their industrial base…

      It’s all part of the attack on America. Destroy from within. First it was made bad to be a male. Then a caucasian. Now, it is bad to be an American.

  • avatar
    KixStart

    This is a news story?

    We have a minivan. When I drive it around town or on a trip, I do a little better than the EPA numbers (no jackrabbit starts; look ahead down the road and coast towards red lights, rather than accelerating into them; hold to the legal limit on the freeway… basic stuff).

    When my kid drives it, he gets about 20-30% worse than the EPA estimates.

    Would Fox do an expose’ on his miserable fuel economy? Well, I imagine they would if my kid wore an Obama t-shirt while driving the thing.

  • avatar
    JohnTheDriver

    Look, Fox News says the car breaks down every 25 miles so the car obviously breaks down every 25 miles. These guys are professional journalists people! They don’t make stupid mistakes or wild assumptions that gleefully mislead their audiences. That would be wrong of them.

  • avatar
    ixim

    This was an opinion piece, not a news report. As is most of FoxNews’ programming. They are NOT TTAC. Pandering to their audience, Fox started with a negative “We bailed these guys out and look what we got” attitude. Very entertaining for their true believers. Not much help for the GM PR people who foolishly lent them the car. As to the Volt, itself. I have a friend who often drives his Prius from NYC to Seattle; he claims >50mpg. He admits the Prius isn’t much fun to drive and the Volt’s much nicer inside, but he only paid $25K for his car. No range anxiety for him! Which is the question raised by the likes of the Leaf that GM claims to have answered. An expensive answer with meh mpg albeit a good looking engineering marvel. That’s the Volt, as of today. I wish people would stop politicizing the Volt, but it sells ads, so I guess that won’t happen.

    • 0 avatar
      Baby Koop

      Ixim, ah, a reasonable person on the internet! How refreshing!

      Anyway, I would quible with your “meh mpg” statement. There’s a lot of people that praise the Prius for their MPG. My uncle has one and his experience seems to be typical for the Prius fleet which is roughly 50 MPG. If you go to the website where Volt owners allow their daily driving data to be downloaded via Onstar what you see is that the Volt’s MPG is about 2.32 times better (116 MPG vs 50 MPG). So if the Prius MPG is great, I would argue that the Volt’s MPG is really, really great instead of “meh”.

      With that said, we are obviously comparing apples to oranges. The current Prius doesn’t plug in and the Volt is using electricity as well as gas. That is why the MPGe figure was created but so few people understand the basics of the Volt that it is hardly worth mentioning, let alone dissecting, what MPGe is and how that is a better, albeit flawed, way of comparing the Volt to other cars. Be well.

      • 0 avatar
        ixim

        Fair enough, BK. ALL of a Prius’ energy costs $3.50/gallon as of today; I’d pay about $.20/kw for [mostly] nuke juice for my plug-in. If I had one. I love the Volt idea; I’m proud of GM for building it; I mourned the need for the bailout. Now, if they made an Equinox with its drive-train, I’d try to find the $$ for it.

  • avatar
    Zykotec

    Not that it’s much related to this exact article, but GM should bet some serious money trying to sell this thing (well, the Opel Ampera at least) in Norway. First of all, new car buyers are fine with paying extra for interiors vs reliability. Some of the older people in Norway still thinks of Opels as nice cars. we have insanely expensive gas, but very reasonable electricity (which of a big part is from renewable sources) and we don’t really drive much on a daily basis. And taxes make up so much of the new car prices that it won’t feel drastically more expensive than any other car in it’s segment. And it’s not a 4 door sedan, most of the people who bought 4 door sedans in Norway were old and angry already when Ford launched the Sierra and Scorpio in the mid 1980′s.
    (a Prius costs over 55.000 , and an Ampera costs around 63.000 in Norway)

    • 0 avatar
      Spike_in_Brisbane

      I have stated here before that the success or otherwise of the Volt/Ampera OUTSIDE of the US market will be interesting due to the cheap gas in USA.
      I view the Volt as being like a blockbuster movie. The more marketing before release, the worse the movie is likely to be. They rely on first weekend revenues. The real test is whether it becomes a classic. Time will tell.
      The volt had the longest marketing buildup for a car that I can remember, almost like an American presidential campaign. During that time I remember hearing about 40 miles on sparks and some overall number like 230 mpg. All marketing fluff. I had not heard the ‘clarification’ but I guess Australia is outside the ‘real world.’

      • 0 avatar
        Baby Koop

        G’day mate, yeah, the Volt was briefly announced to get 230 MPG. I understand why they did it and it was probably a mistake. With that said, I personally get over 300 MPG. So I personally don’t think it is marketing fluff as it is my real world experience.

        It is also interesting to note that out of the 443 Volt owners who share their data that 143, or roughly a third, of them get over 230 MPG. (voltstats.net for the source of that info) And over 50 of the 443 people are getting over twice the original 230 MPG figure. What that tells me is that the Volt is absolutely great for some people and not as great for other people. I am very happy that I’m one of the people that it is great for as it is really a nice car (as you can tell by my explosion of posts here).

  • avatar
    Conslaw

    Gotta love the way Fox News yammers on the most tenuous points. GM ran itself into the ground by riding the truck and SUV fad and losing track of fundamentals not because of the money that it spent learning how to make electric vehicles. The Apple I really couldn’t do anything useful, and the Apple II wasn’t of much use to the average person; so, I guess Apple was a bust, right? Nobody is forced to buy a Volt. If it doesn’t work for your driving, drive something else. Except for the price, the Volt would work well for me. I thought ahead when I bought my house. I only live 5 miles from work. If I lived in New York, I’d take mass transportation. The last time I went through the Lincoln Tunnel, it was in comfort on a New Jersey Transit Bus. It dropped me off in Times Square with no fuss, no worries. It’s not just the guy shouldn’t drive a Volt, he probably shouldn’t drive at all.

  • avatar
    TheHammer

    The guy hates GM and The Volt going in. What did anyone expect? Please…

  • avatar
    threeer

    Forget whether or not the Volt lives up to what GM purported…where the heck are the editors of TTAC??? Once upon a time, this forum prided itself (rightly) on not sinking down to the personal snark and attacks that are getting more and more pervasive. Many of us came here (and have stayed here) largely in part due to the fact that TTAC wasn’t just another trolling site. Agree or disagree with what somebody believes, but holy crap…can we do it with some degree of civility, or is this just further proof that (like politics and the evening news) negative sells…

    • 0 avatar
      PenguinBoy

      Amen.

      I still come here because I like the news and some of the writing, but it would be a better place if there was less nastiness. I don’t mind irreverent snarky humour, but some of what I read here these days is really over the top.

  • avatar
    Lorenzo

    Funny the headline mentions Fox and Lincoln Tunnel. If my brother-in-law reads it, he’ll cringe.

    In the ’70s he bought an Audi Fox and drove it from the dealer through the tunnel during rush hour after a short test drive. He didn’t know the wrong valve guides had been installed and the car would emit clouds of black smoke once it warmed up. That happened halfway through the tunnel.

    During rush hour, he had to keep going – slowly, and had quite the welcoming committee at the end of the tunnel. Fortunately, he had all his paperwork, and the authorities graciously towed his car back to the dealer, with a police escort.

    Compared to that, the Volt runs out of juice? Minor embarrassment.

  • avatar
    tekdemon

    Well this guy is just full of crap, who cares if he runs out of power in the tunnel? That means he’s already almost to Manhattan where he presumably works so he’s still replacing the vast majority of his drive with electricity.
    What’s true is that it’s probably not a meaningful savings versus driving a Prius or something but him running out isn’t really all that terrible.

  • avatar

    You know, he’s entitled to his opinion. But be fair (which I know is next to impossible on Fox). He keeps saying 600 have been sold, but never that it’s just in one month. And running out electricity causes the idiot woman (the one on the left) to say that it breaks down, which is untrue. If you’re going to criticize, do a full and proper review — not a six-minute misinformed diatribe.

    Wait. That’s Fox News. Rrrrrrright. Never mind.

  • avatar
    Ryoku75

    Considering the Volt is an electric car you’d think that it would go on longer.

    Scratch that, its a hybrid.

  • avatar
    PaulVincent

    Cost, cost, cost. So what income is a person suppose (assume single) make in order to afford purchasing a Volt?

    • 0 avatar
      Baby Koop

      Interesting question Paul. Let’s look at the MSRP of the base Volt. It’s roughly $40k. Some are selling it below MSRP, some at MSRP and some are still trying to sell them above MSRP (guess which of the three selling strategies are working for dealers). Anyway, I’ve seen some Volts offered at a couple of thousand below MSRP.

      Most Volt owners (although not all) qualify for the $7,500 tax credit. If you don’t pay taxes you don’t get the $7,500 tax credit but, like I said, almost all do. That will bring the total purchase price (exclusive of taxes and delivery) to, let’s say, $32k. Understanding that math I would say that you then look at total cost of ownership. I don’t know what your commute is like or what state you live in (to understand the weather and other possible tax breaks) and so I can’t calculate that for you. But for me, I live in Virginia have a commute that is 50 miles round-trip, I get to plug in at work (for free) and the result is that I’m saving $2,000 per year in gas compared to my old 30 MPG car (this is net of my additional electricity costs). This was all done using roughly $.11/kwh for electricity and $3.50 for gas.

      Now, the batteries will degrade over time (they are warrantied at 8 years/100,000 miles at which point they are supposed to have 80 percent of their initial performance) and so the total cost will rise due to this. However, I’m one of those people that actually believe that oil is a finite resource (yeah, I read it somewhere on these here internet thingies) and that, like all finite resources, production will rise, eventually peak and then fall. I don’t know exactly when that will be but I’m guessing that supply and demand will still be a valid economic law at that time and that prices will escalate quite rapidly. In addition, knowing as I do that we are consuming about 90 million barrels of oil a day and only have proven reserves of about 1.4 trillion barrels. I can estimate how long that will last (math is great!). I also understand that peak oil discovery happened before I was born and that the discovery curve looks rather bleak.

      So, what I’m attempting to state, is that a reasonable person might bet that peak oil might happen in the lifetime of the battery warranty of the 2011 Volt. I would be happy to engage on this topic with anybody with differing facts but the one general rule I have is please don’t tell me that a poodle is a pit bull. Yes, they are both dogs and they both start with the letter “P” but they are not the same thing. If you don’t get the analogy and why it is so appropriate for the peak oil debate you can ask me.

  • avatar
    reclusive_in_nature

    Calm down people! Some of you need to just sit back and pretend a journalist with a British accent did the segment. Then you’ll be able to accept it as fact.

    Seriously, some of the biggest douchebags I’ve ever known refuse to get their news from anywhere but BBC.

  • avatar
    probert

    So much dumb in one room. Amazing that it doesn’t implode.

  • avatar
    thornmark

    Well, at least one thing has become an established theme among some with too much time on their hands here and that is, if the news is biased in favor of the Left, it’s nonpartisan. If it’s not biased in their favor, it’s Fox.

  • avatar
    Pch101

    In other news, Car and Driver tested the 5.0 liter Mustang, which is rated 17 city/ 26 highway, and observed 15 mpg.

    I can’t wait for a Fox expose to uncover this miscarriage of justice. I’ll bet that the Mustang would consume gasoline even if it was driven inside of the LINCOLN TUNNEL!!! LIKE, OHMIGAWD!!!

  • avatar
    ljr1981

    The man driving the Volt is an IDIOT! See the official statement from the Volt website at the end of this comment.

    The man driving was driving in A) Cold Weather and B) Is probably an aggressive driver (e.g. the “tailgater” comment from one of the other panel members). His assessment of getting only 25+ miles on the battery is in complete agreement with his driving style and conditions!

    NO! The car did NOT “break down”. Idiots! The car ran out of battery power due to the style and nature of the drivers habits, styles and environment. What they are leaving out is the REST OF THE STORY:

    Once switched over to gas, this is NOT like your typical gas powered car. The “gas engine” is a GENERATOR and works like a Diesel-Electric locomotive, where the engine provides electricity for the electric motors driving the car. In this case, the engine is highly tuned to provide very EXCELLENT mileage when compared to a normal vehicle (37 MPG, offering about 375 miles of additional range based on a 10-11 gallon tank of gas). It is my previous understanding that the fuel economy of the gas-electric combo is that the mileage will be even better than the 37 estimate. However, even 37 is well worth it and a good value.

    NOTE: I DO NOT work for Chevy. I do NOT own a Chevy. As soon as I can, I would like to purchase a Volt. My present car is not paid for. I am waiting for it to be paid for BEFORE purchasing a Volt. I am VERY proud of the folks on the Chevy Volt team for building an excellent car with great technology.

    And for the rest of you morons that think government subsidies are wrong, did you know that it took government subsidies to get the country initially wired up for electricity because private companies could not or would not invest in the lunatic technology called Alternating Current electricity piped into your house on a wire?

    “While the published EPA EV range for Volt is an estimated 35 miles, the electric range that customers actually experience may be higher or lower than 35 due to the driver’s technique, the terrain, battery age and the outdoor temperature. On a full charge, most customers under moderate conditions will experience an estimated 25 to 50(1) miles of EV range. The high range of 50 miles is based on ideal circumstances – conservative driving using no air conditioning in mild outdoor temperatures. The 25–mile range represents a slightly more aggressive driving style using the heater in ECO setting in cold outdoor temperatures of 25 degrees F.”

    • 0 avatar
      Crawfish

      “And for the rest of you morons that think government subsidies are wrong, did you know that it took government subsidies to get the country initially wired up for electricity because private companies could not or would not invest in the lunatic technology called Alternating Current electricity piped into your house on a wire?”

      To say utility firms “could not or would not” covert to AC until the government stepped in is factually incorrect.

      Westinghouse (a private company) developed the AC technology which was superior to the Edison technology (DC). Major utilities companies, including Commonwealth Edison, and Commonwealth and Southern, switched to AC in the early 1920s. Utilities companies are in business to make money, and AC was clearly the best product.

      As an aside, it was FDR, with the creation of the TVA, who wanted the federal government to be in the utilities business, and not private firms. His dream was to have the TVA, a government agency, run the day-to-day operations of utilities in the South and West. It is correct that the federal government did wind up regulating the industry, but that was a fall-back after Roosevelt was unable (after lawsuits) to run the electric utility industry.

      Roosevelt also went after Samuel Insull (owner of Con Ed) as well as other utilities firms. You might want to read up on that. It’s interesting how anti-business FDR was, and how much he planned to have the government running (not just regulating) utilities and agricultural concerns.

      The government had little to do with the use of AC over DC. It was private industry all the way.

  • avatar
    Reny757

    What’s wrong with cranking the heat up and driving any way you want? Until these ridiculous electric cars are viable and affordable, they’ll continue to be a joke. If I’m cold or hot in my car, I’m gonna be comfortable regardless what the environmental whacks say.

  • avatar
    ballawana13

    The Chevy Volt is not ready for prime time. The technology is from 1898 (look it up — it is essentially the same technology as electric cars from 1898 wrapped in a nice little modern shell).

    The federal government has no business putting money into this kind of old technology. I encourage companies and entrepreneurs to continue to work at improving it. Better batteries will help. Still not there yet. Getting 150 to 200 miles on a charge in winter and summer because frankly those two seasons represent half of the year. Support for coal as it provides about a quarter of the electricity in this country. Batteries that don’t need replacing after so many charges like they do in cellphones or other recent electronics. We have a long way to go before the Chevy Volt or Nissan Leaf are practical. Keep working at it and maybe in 10-15 years we might have reasonable alternatives, but don’t expect the current models to find practical applications.

    • 0 avatar
      Baby Koop

      Hey ballawana, let’s conduct an experiment. You can make an argument for why the Volt is essentially the same technology from 1898 and I’ll make an argument that your statement is pretty similar to saying that the F-22 is essentially the same technology as the Wright Flyer. After all it’s all about lift, drag and thrust.

      We can each have three posts to make our argument and the wisdom of this forum can decide which is correct and which is political, naive, uninformed crap (this is not meant to be a put down because I will be judged along with you and people here might think that I’m the one peddling crap). I’ll even be magnanimous and help you write your first comment.

      It can start off like this: The Volt has four tires, a steering wheel, a pedal to accelerate and one to brake, and it has a battery in it. The 1898 car also has those things and I will conceed that point to you. You can use my talking points to start the first of your three comments and, using your knowledge of the cars of 1898, you can enlighten the rest of us how they are essentially the same technology. But here’s my guess, you won’t take me up on the offer because you merely read an article (poorly written at that) that made the same argument and you thought “Hmmmmm, that makes a lot of sense. I’ll make that argument at a later time on the internet”. But what you failed to do is to think critically and understand why the original article you read was political tripe aimed not at informing the readers but at misinforming them. But maybe I’m wrong. I’ve been wrong before and I’ll be wrong again. Please help me see the light if I am wrong.

  • avatar
    samzydeco

    A friend has a Volt.
    She has lost all power while driving 70 mph TWICE. The first time she lost power steering and brakes, once finally stopped there was not enough juice to roll down the window or even put the hazards on. Epic fail.
    Besides these failures, where do electric car supporters think our electricity comes from? This whole movement is simply entrepreneurs, under the cloak of “saving the planet”, trying to steer some of the billions the oil companies make into their own coffers – plain and simple.

  • avatar
    bpmsept

    Just curious as I have done little research on the Volt on my own…..

    So if I’m driving the car at night, in the winter with the heat on and listening to the radio I may get what, 15 miles per charge? How long does it take to fully charge the batteries? How much electricity does that require? Do yoiu get better miles/charge at ceretain speeds, or does it matter? How exactly is 25 miles/charge going to save the planet? Why is this being subsidised by US tax payers?

    B

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      …So if I’m driving the car at night, in the winter with the heat on and listening to the radio I may get what, 15 miles per charge…

      Assuming you started with a full charge, you’ll go about 25 to 30 miles in real world driving before the gas/electric mode kicks in. Remember, you are ALWAYS driving on electricity. The ICE runs a generator that charges the batteries, and the batteries drives the electric drive train.

      …How long does it take to fully charge the batteries…

      110VAC from dead up to 14 hours, IIRC
      230VAC from dead up to 6 hours, IIRC

      This is in line with other electric vehicles. Again, even if you can’t charge it is a non-issue, unless you run out of gasoline too. This is the biggest advantage of a Volt over a Leaf. Lets say you want to drive 1,000 miles. In a Leaf you’ll need to stop every 60 to 100 miles depending on conditions and then wait to charge up, 5 to 14 hours, and then drive again. A Volt can do the drive in one day without stopping in gas/electric mode.

      …How much electricity does that require…

      What I’ve read is from dead an overnight 230VAC charge will cost you about $1 to $1.50 – depending on what you pay per KwH.

      …Do yoiu get better miles/charge at ceretain speeds, or does it matter…

      Absolutely! You cannot change the laws of physics. If I take my G8 GT out onto a race track and run laps as hard as I can, I’ll get about 6 MPG. That doesn’t mean the G8 GT is a gas hog piece of crap. If I run it on the interstate on a tepid day with no AC, cruise control set around 65 MPH on relatively flat pavement in light traffic, I can get close to 30 MPG (both are real world observations) which far exceeds the sticker of 24 MPG highway. Does that mean its a gas sipper. Nope. In the real world I get around 18 to 21 MPG per tank depending on traffic and what kind of driving I do.

      Same applies for electric motors. If you’re driving with the heat on full blast, the AC compressor on, rear defroster going, headlights, wipers, heated seats, and the volume knob ripped off the stereo while an AC/DC inverter is plugged into the ciggy lighter and you’re charging an Alienware laptop, and you’re driving 90 MPH on the interstate uphill – yes the Volt isn’t even going to hit the low end 25 mile range mark. Ditto for the Leaf not coming close to its 73 mile mark.

      On the other hand if you’re in hypermiling at 50 MPH downhill during the a tepid day and using no other electricity and lightly using the brakes to gain any regenerative benefit you can grab – you’ll probably get to the 50 mile end of the range and more. I know I read a story of one hypermiler that got 89 miles out of the Volt electric charge before switching to gas.

      …How exactly is 25 miles/charge going to save the planet? Why is this being subsidised by US tax payers…

      THAT my friend is the multi-million dollar question. The Patriotism wrapped line of crap is, “we’ll be energy independent!”

      In 2011 the United States already became a net-exporter of refined fuel (surprise) and it was our largest export in terms of dollars (double surprise). Yup, we’re exporting more gasoline, diesel, and jet fuel than we use, and it is our largest export. So much for the banner of energy independence, we’re a lot further down the path than most would have you believe. Additionally, our number one importer of crude oil is those evil Canadians. We know how Canada does not have our best interests in mind. ;-)

      The subsidy part is the same lame excuse on why hybrids were subsidized in the 2000′s (people seem to have forgetten that) to help move along the adoption and sales of more fuel efficient models. But what happened when the subsidies started getting phased out for both Toyota and Honda as they reached their government mandated maximums? What a shock, sales went down and have never reached subsidized levels.

      One could argue that two wrongs don’t make a right, the counter argument being how can you support hybrid technology for almost 10 years with government handouts and then turn your back on your own industry.

      Personally I don’t think any of them should have gotten a flippin’ cent.

      I hope this answered some of your questions.

  • avatar
    Jorge

    Only the 1/500 of 1 Percent of US Car Owners who are Green Obsessed would ever buy the VOLT. It is a NO-BRAINER that

    1. This vehicle is and will always be a loser. It will be remembered as Chevy’s Edsel, not enough interest or demand.
    2. A VOLT purchase is based on terrible ecomomic judgement
    3. Electriciy is produced mostly using fossil fuels and will be for a long time to come.
    4. Using a VOLT to get around is about as good to the environment as electing the forever campaigning or vacationing Obama with his family burning jet fuel on US Air Force Jetliners

    It is idiotic to argue about the virtues of the VOLT or the Nissan or others. The only kind of worthwhile electric vehicles for a long-time into the future will continue to be golf carts.

    Obama thinks he is smarter than all the engineers in the auto industry who never thought of the economics of an electric vehicle. Hybids will rule that segment of the industry for a long time and even they will show their faults as the batteries need replacement or other very costly repairs and replacements occur.

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      …than all the engineers in the auto industry who never thought of the economics of an electric vehicle…

      And that’s why boys and girls Ford, Fiat, BMW, Mercedes, Mitsubishi, Toyota, and Honda are all racing to get pure electric cars out. Because the President said so. Wow! What a guy, and all those foreign companies bowing to his will.

      …and even they will show their faults as the batteries need replacement or other very costly repairs and replacements occur…

      Hybrid detractors have been saying this since 1996. So when is it actually going to happen? When are all those batteries going to start failing???

  • avatar
    Thomas 1

    I cannot believe you could even compare the Ford Mustang to the Volt. Mustang. Proven automobile through the decades. Developed and purchased by millions without the government (ie my unborn grandchildren) paying for the development, union jobs of the assemblers and tax credits to those who buy it. Drop all the stuff about the Volt catching fire. GM continually downgrading the performance of the car BEFORE, DURING and AFTER its release. In addition, they sold around 300 of these nationwide in January! After all this, you get to the real crux of any discussions about this car. WE DON’T WANT IT!!!
    I know it is some green eco lovers fantasy, but it is simply a dud. If not for the government telling GM what it had to make, this car would have been scrapped and millions would have been available to make the current cars more efficient.
    In the end, we still decide what we wannt to drive. It is NOT the Volt.

    P.S. I am not even a big Mustnag fan, but at least it is a real automobile.

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      “I cannot believe you could even compare the Ford Mustang to the Volt.”

      Good point. Whereas the Volt did what it was supposed to (it traveled 25 miles on battery power alone), the Mustang didn’t (it got 15 mpg, when it was supposed to get at least 17 mpg. OMMIGAWD!!!)

      I’m just outraged. I hope that Fox does the right thing, and deals with this tremendous Mustang failure. I’ll bet that the Kenyan communists have something to do with it.

      • 0 avatar
        Thomas 1

        WOW! you talk about everyone else’s blinders and you totally miss the point on my post. Either 1, you are that dumb (I really doubt it) or 2. You are a total Kool Aid drinking social engineering liberal who will not see a forest through the trees.

        Look at all the posts of those who are neagative about the Volt. What is it they have in common. They DO NOT want to be told what they have to drive and no one wans their hard earned (at least mine are) tax dollars used to further an agenda. The governemnt should have NEVER bailed out GM. GM no longer is listening to its customers. We vote with our dollars and Volt has lost in a landslide.
        You continue to hang you hat on 25 miles to a charge. Really??/That is what you think this is about here? Are you really that blinded by your bias? What flavor is the Kool aid? Grape? Strawberry?

      • 0 avatar
        permagrin

        People actually bought the Mustang. The point of making a car is to sell it. No one is buying this car. But keep patting the Volt on the back, it did what it was supposed to. Yea, everyone gets a trophy!!!

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        “People actually bought the Mustang.”

        And Fox should be very upset about all of those poor innocent gallons that were burned, which weren’t supposed to be burned. Oh, the humanity.

        Ford didn’t deliver what was promised, unlike GM that did (for once). But, I have every confidence that Fox will use its “fair and balanced” approach to launch some sort of anti-Mustang jihad.

      • 0 avatar
        replica

        I don’t know what this Mustang talk is about, but my 2008 GT got 26 MPG on the highway. Terrible. It was directly responsible for the resurrection of Mordor, fall of Middle Earth, the death of Dale Earnhart Jr, and the canceled production of Planter’s brand cheese curls.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        “my 2008 GT got 26 MPG on the highway”

        That sounds evil. You should inform Fox News of this travesty. I could see a 20-part expose coming out of this.

      • 0 avatar
        APaGttH

        When did Planters cancel their cheese curls?

        WHAT IS THE WORLD COMING TOO!

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      …If not for the government telling GM what it had to make, this car would have been scrapped and millions would have been available to make the current cars more efficient…

      The Volt was in development LONG before the ‘guberment got involved in GM’s balance sheet. Full funding and development of the Volt started in…

      2007.

      http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/07/electro-shock-therapy/6871/

      …GM continually downgrading the performance of the car BEFORE, DURING and AFTER its release…

      Well, too bad you’re not right on that one either. From the same July of 2008 Atlantic Magazine article linked above…

      …Still, even for General Motors, the Volt is a reach. If it meets specifications, it will charge up overnight from any standard electrical socket. It will go 40 miles on a charge. Then a small gasoline engine will ignite. The engine’s sole job will be to drive a generator, whose sole job will be to maintain the battery’s charge—not to drive the wheels, which will never see anything but electricity. In generator mode, the car will drive hundreds of miles on a tank of gas, at about 50 miles per gallon. But about three-fourths of Americans commute less than 40 miles a day, so on most days most Volt drivers would use no gas at all…

      Those were the specs in 2008. GM now says electric range is 25 to 40 miles, most real world observations fall around 35 miles (do a search). The description is spot on and the combined electric/gas numbers are low compared to real world observations. Again, that story is from 2008.

  • avatar
    independentcarguy

    So I can buy 2 prius cars for what the volt cost. The technology in a volt is not advanced over what we had 115 years ago talk.baltimoresun.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=308196
    Our money is being used for this thing. Which begs the question why didn’t investors think it was such a great idea. Why should we expect anything better from a government project than cost over runs and sub parr performance. My new bumper sticker will now read
    Its the debt stupid. The chickens are comming home to roost. Maybe we could add some solyndra solar panels for added range.

  • avatar
    Buffalo

    Sounds like the Volt would be a great car if everywhere you wanted to go was within walking distance. Face it, it’s a lousy car for the price we taxpayers paid for. Why can Honda and Toyota make halfway decent electric cars and we can’t come close?? Government motors and Congressional Corporation should never have been bailed out. Reorganization through bankruptcy would have worked. This green nonsense is just that. There is more extremely hazardous waste produced by electric autos than gas powered over their lifetime (CO2 being necessary to plant life). Conservation is good when sensibly applied. The bottom line matters, sooner or later (most certainly sooner), the government will not be able to borrow more money to give to those who won’t work – the 10% of working age adults who have withdrawn form the workforce.

  • avatar
    MrCrashHappy

    In the first place, Mr. Schmitt, giving a car to a news organization and expecting some sort of favorable treatment is just plain stupid. There’s no ingratitude on Fox’s part since they’re not obligated.

    In the second place, what would any sane person expect from a coal-powered, over-priced, under-engineered, unwanted, unneeded, piece of junk? Buy a sense of humor, buddy.

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      “There’s no ingratitude on Fox’s part since they’re not obligated.”

      You’re not exactly earning high marks for spotting sarcasm.

      • 0 avatar
        Thomas 1

        Again…WOW!!! Talk about a Volt calling an Edsel a lemon!

        Typical. Only can dish out your version of “sarcasm.”

        Can’t handle it from anyone else.

        I guess we’re just not enlightened enough to understand and stand in awe of your literary genius.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        “Can’t handle it from anyone else.”

        Er, you might need to practice those skills yourself.

        Mr. Schmitt was clearly being sarcastic when he quipped that Fox were “ingrates” for trashing the Volt. The poster above me obviously missed this sarcasm, given the earnestness of his reply.

        Mr. Schmitt worked in advertising. He must know enough about marketing to recognize that loaning one of these cars to Fox News in the hopes of getting good publicity was a serious error in judgment.

        The Volt could be the best car on the planet, and Fox would still piss on it because Fox is a political operation, not a news organization. GM would have been wise to have completely ignored them.

  • avatar
    camper9574

    I own a Volt. After nearly a year and 12,500 miles, I can tell you it is a great car. Running out of juice in the Lincoln Tunnel would only be a problem for a Volt driver who was also out of gas.

    It would appear that either the Fox folks don’t understand the volt or they have it in for the car. It is also clear that many of the posters here are in the same boat. The Volt goes 28 to 40 miles on battery, depending on temperature. Then the gas engine starts, runs a generator to make electricity to keep the car going. You cannot feel the transition.

    Mine averages 41 MPG on gas, 120 MPG lifetime combined gas and battery.

    In order to conclude that the Volt costs as much as some have reported, they have to allocate the entire GM bailout to the Volt. Not True. In order to complaign about range anxiety in a volt, critics have to imagine themselves in a Nissan leaf, fluttering to the side of the road out of juice, 10 miles from home. It cannot happen that way in the Volt unless you are stupid enough to run out of gas too.

    • 0 avatar
      Thomas 1

      I am glad you like the Volt you purchased and it is doing a good job for you. (There is no sarcasm intended here)

      I have one question? If this is such a good car…Why does it take my tax dollars to purchase?

      Would you have purchased it without the tax credits and rebates?

      Do you really think this car can stand on its own?

      • 0 avatar
        kenzter

        Newsflash…
        Tax dollars were “spent” subsidizing hybrid cars long before the Volt. The Civic, Leaf, Prius and even a BMW have all been eligible for credits.
        http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax_hybrid.shtml

        Why doesn’t anyone cry over this? Where’s the outrage!

        • 0 avatar
          replica

          I is outraged.

        • 0 avatar
          APaGttH

          But, but, but that was different!

          Free ‘guberment handouts to Toyota and Honda customers buy built in Japan hybrids in the 2000′s good.

          Free ‘guberment handouts to GM customers buying built in the USofA electric cars in the 2010′s bad.

          Free ‘guberment handouts to Nissan customers buying built in the USofA soon electric cars in the 2010′s is apparently…good.

          Nissan cars not living up to advertised range is apparently…good.

          Nissan only making 50% of their 2011 sales goal is apparently…good while GM making 80% of their 2011 sales goal is…bad.

          GM claiming 230 MPG following the EPA guidelines apparently was…bad.

          Nissan claiming 365 MPG following the same EPA guidelines apparently was…good.

          I don’t see what your problem is, it makes perfectly good sense to me!

    • 0 avatar
      kenzter

      “Ask the man who owns one.”
      Thank you camper. If you like it, buy one. If you don’t, don’t.

    • 0 avatar
      Kingfish-obummer

      If they are that damn smart why can’t they have a generator to recharge the batteries as you drive, DUH

  • avatar
    joedoakes101

    The electric car needs to die . . .

    January 25, 2012

    Dear President and CEO of General Motors Mr. Obama,

    As an old life guard I wonder sometimes if a liberal were drowning, and I through them a jug, half filled with water to save them, would they, right before they were about to take their last breath, would they look for the recycle logo on the jug or would they just be happy that I was saving their life with it? If the electric car was drowning I would fill it with Quikrete and sink it. At least then it could not hurt anyone and it would become provide a home to some fish. I know all of you up their have a fetish for this thing. You think that it is a panacea to our use of oil or to clean the air, or whatever, but it’s all a lie. From production to delivery, to use, to disposal, it is a bad idea. The only way ideas like this come to be is a result of forcing people to invest in failed ideas, and the takeover of companies like General Motors by the federal government.

    In a sane world an entrepreneur would go to the public market or invest their own money and set out a few goals. Number one would be to build the lightest and coolest car possible. Number two would be to make a profit. Number three would be to sell as many of them as possible to the most people possible. Unfortunately, the car business has been decimated by over regulation. Good thing you people never got your hands on the cell phone industry. Apple Computer would still be making the Mac II. This mythical car company would hire people, build plants, and create a product that would get fantastic mileage. To do this it would use composites, high strength plastics and aluminum to reduce weight. The enemy in efficiency is weight and aerodynamics, not propulsion. In fact when one fixates on the that aspect they end up with too much weight and not enough bang for the buck; and like Elliot Spitzer Americans love a little extra bang for the buck:) In short, if any company took a four cylinder vehicle and used these light but strong materials a gasoline powered vehicle would do far better then a battery coal driven car from factory floor to disposal, but liberal auto executives like yourself don’t want the truth, they just want their fantasy, just like Elliot Spitzer, the problem here is all of us have to pay for it.

    I drive cars that are big and powerful. I love Corvettes. You can’t beat them for the buck. I drive them less now because I can no longer afford the gasoline. The reason I can’t afford the gasoline is because the government is making it so the refineries and energy companies cannot make enough product to allow the market to clear at a price that would induce me to consume. That is why America is dieing with you as President, that is also why, President Carter failed so miserably too, you are trying to deliver the same medicine to a patient that just wants to escape the hospital. President Reagan provided that escape, and one day President Gingrich or President Romney or some other fellow will do the same. Or you could continue to run this nation, and General Motors, for that matter into the ground.

    Thankfully, we get a say in that, and on November 6, 2012, we will be voting for the other guy.

    Respectfully,

    Joe Doakes

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      …I drive cars that are big and powerful. I love Corvettes. You can’t beat them for the buck. I drive them less now because I can no longer afford the gasoline. The reason I can’t afford the gasoline is because the government is making it so the refineries and energy companies cannot make enough product to allow the market to clear at a price that would induce me to consume…

      Stimpy, your wealth of ignorance is amazing, even to me.

      Pop quiz, in terms of total dollars, what was the United States’ largest EXPORT in 2011.

      Doo, do, doo, do, doo, do doo, do, doo, doo, do, DOO, do-do-do-doo, do, doo, do, doo, do, doo, do, DOO, do-do-do, doo, doo…doo…do.

      OK, lets see your answer. If you wrote refined petroleum products you are a winner.

      Oh no, you didn’t write that did you because you think that we don’t have enough refinery capacity in the United States because we can’t build refineries anymore (tell that to Arizona where a new refinery is being built right now – but beside that point). In 2011 the largest EXPORT in terms of total dollars from the United States was refined gasoline, diesel, and jet fuel. The primary buyers were Latin America and Asia.

      But? But? But? Refineries. How is that POSSIBLE!

      Well, we’ve cut back as a nation. A lot. And those oil companies have all sorts of excess capacity. You see, they could pour that extra capacity into the United States and drop the price of gas to maybe $2 a gallon. OR…they could sell it in Asia and Latin America to customers willing to pay more, restrict US supply and make more North American profit. It’s call free market economy baby!

      Oh, think I’m making it up?

      Here is a link to back it up. From December 30, 2011. And since you are clearly going to question the source, I went to the unquestionable Fox News.

      http://nation.foxnews.com/us-exports/2011/12/30/top-us-exportfuel

      …Measured in dollars, the nation is on pace this year to ship more gasoline, diesel, and jet fuel than any other single export, according to U.S. Census data going back to 1990. It will also be the first year in more than 60 that America has been a net exporter of these fuels…

      Yup. You read that right. Not only was it our top export, we were a net exporter when you look at what was imported too. Yup. We actually shipped out more gasoline, diesel, and jet fuel than we shipped in in 2011.

      You just have to love free market economy but oh please, keep blaming regulation and a lack of refining capacity. I hear those gasoline elves are drinking lots of crude and peeing out pure 89 octane.

      • 0 avatar
        Thomas 1

        Please read your report again. What is the largest contributor to the price of gasoline or any refined petrolium product? Doo, do, doo, do, doo, do doo, do, doo, doo, do, DOO, do-do-do-doo, do, doo, do, doo, do, doo, do, DOO, do-do-do, doo, doo…doo…do. Please in the form of a question. What is the price of crude oil? That is correct! you win a new Chevy Volt with the optional fire extingwisher.

        That report talks about “refined product’ Yes we have capacity to refine because of the cutbacks. Like people taking less vacations, restricting their leisure travel and family travel. Fewer airline flights and more crowded airlplanes. 5 million more unemplyed so we have reduced commerce to transport. Yea it’s great out there. I understand we wouldn’t want it to get better. Like maybe we could use that capacity to refine CHEAPER crude iol if we had the XL Pipeline, Offshore drilling. stuff like that. It is said that Califiornia could eliminate their total budget probelm with the opening of the existing oil leases offshore. Not even allow any new ones. But no, we want to get those EVIL oil companies for making their teacher union retirment funds shareholders a positive dividend.

      • 0 avatar
        APaGttH

        Wow, it must be scary inside of your head. Let me use small words so maybe you understand better. Me leave out pronouns too.

        You say no refinery built. Sad. Gas expensive. Regulation bad. Expensive gas bad. No refinery built. No cheap gas.

        Me provide link. Fox News. Prove plenty gas. So much gas ship gas other places. People buy extra gas. No need new refinery.

        Now you change story. Say because economy bad. No airplanes fly.

        Airplanes fly. Me fly all time. Airplanes full. Full airplanes mean profit. Free market economy. Profit good. Airlines fill planes make money. Money good. Empty plane bad.

        You say people no go on vacation. 2011 best travel year since 2004. World travel up nine percent. US vacation travel up eight percent. Only nineteen percent travel agent report booking down in 2011. You stupid. Vacation spending good.

        Government say average American drive 13,476 miles per year as of April 2011. Decline in miles driven start in 2005. Bush in White House. Economy good. Not bad. You stupid again.

        http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20070518/1a_lede18.art.htm

        Price gas high because foreign buyers pay more. Gas company send to market who pay more. Make more money. Less gas you. You complain.

        Blame everyone but free market. You stupid.

        Then you say need more drill. Need pipeline bring more oil United States. Drill California. Drill Gulf. But you say no refinery! No refinery more drill no help! No can refine extra no capacity. New pipeline make easier export more gas out of Texas. Canada oil no go to United States. Go foreign market more profit through Gulf. You stupid.

      • 0 avatar
        joeaverage

        Wait I thought digging up Canada for nickel for EV batteries was bad. Now digging up Canada for oil tar sands is okay? How much nickel would that pipeline foundry need for the steel anyhow?

    • 0 avatar
      kenzter

      I recall gas over $4/gal when Bush was President. I didn’t blame him. I recall gas under $1/gay when Clinton was President. I didn’t credit him.

      BTW, one of my cars gets 10mpg on a good day. And OMG I’m a liberal!

      • 0 avatar
        APaGttH

        Exactly.

        If you really think the Administration has that much influence over the price of a gallon of gas, vote Bachmann, when she becomes President gas will be $2 a gallon. She said so, it must be true!

  • avatar
    exilim

    Having to engage in extended argumentation to defend that something wasn’t misrepresented is generally an admission that it was. Isn’t it?

    Akin to “You didn’t analyse the fine print correctly” defenses.

  • avatar
    southcst1

    Why is everyone throwing a fit about “The Five”? This was never claimed to be a serious news show by Fox. They refer to it as an “opinion show”. While most of the stars of The Five have more credible backgrounds than the others, it’s still considered to be a humorous entertainment talk show.

    Regarding the Volt’s electric range claims. Generally in the private sector, if my engineers were to pitch a product they could create with basically one primary purpose. We then invested many millions of dollars putting this product into mass production only to find out that the finished product fell 40% short on this primary objective. Besides the enginers being fired, and some very unhappy investors we have a huge uncompetitive problem on our hands. This generally does not happen.

    On the other hand, if my company is getting subsidized by the government to create this super-vehicle, we don’t have to worry about making our claims a reality as we can always “clarify” later.

    I have a very hard time believing GM didn’t know exactly what kind of performance this vehicle was capable of before production.

  • avatar
    black83zee

    Ok all you know it alls….watch this testimonial on a guy that got 7500 miles on 38 gallons of gas in a Volt! You never run it on just electricity! The gas generator recharges the battery as you go along. That guy on Fox sucks and has a hidden agenda! This is about a car….don’t make it into your political football!

    http://www.chevroletvoltage.com/index.php/ownerstories.html?view=story&id=51

  • avatar
    black83zee

    The Fox guy is a moron….people are getting 60 mpg on Volts. One guy drove 7500 miles and just used 38 gal. of gas. You drive in extended mode. Why would you just drive electric when they tell you it can just go 40 miles? He wanted it to die. NOT fair and balanced!

  • avatar
    black83zee

    read this:

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/08/chevy-volt-ask-the-men-and-women-who-own-them/

  • avatar
    Chippy55

    Fox News always shows BOTH sides of a political issue, it’s just that the Liberals always come off looking stupid because Liberalism can’t exist, you eventually run out of other people’s money.
    Dummies who criticize Fox cannot tell the difference between NEWS and OPINION, for instance Sean is an opinion show. O’Reilly is a no spin zone, NOBODY from either party gets to spin.
    GM (Obama) was offering a $7,500 credit to buy a Volt. Dealers were taking that credit and then selling the Volts as used! Got that? SO what happens next April when the buyer tries to take the credit and the IRS says, “nope, somebody already took that credit and besides, you’re car is used”.
    The Volt that Fox tested ran out of juice because the heater was running since it was cold out. If you run an electric car along with the lights, heater, radio, then there’s no way you will get 40 miles on the battery.

  • avatar
    Crawfish

    To the person who had the comment about the Tesla (there’s no button for me to reply directly):

    The standard “S” model has a 130 mile range. You *can* get a 300 mile battery – it costs $20K extra. So the price of the S with that battery will be more like $70-80K.

    All I’ll say about the Tesla is, I’ll believe it when I see it. Only preproduction models have been released to the media – it’s supposed to be summer 2012 before any can actually be purchased.

    • 0 avatar
      LDbonk

      Hey Crawfish,
      Sorry about the way my comment posted, i’m an old guy and new to the site, i think i’ve got it figured out. You’re right, the Tesla S with the 300 mile battery will be in the $70k range for 2012. Frankly that’s less than a lot of SUVs running around sucking gas with one “Joe Cool” driver. (I drive 120 highway miles a day… i see a lot of attitude out there).

      However, Tesla is partnering with Toyota on building a factory in Cali and once production line economies kick in, you’ll see that price drop. New technology always goes to the rich first… Poor folks didn’t buy Mr. Ford’s first automobiles new, they bought them from rich people who traded them for bigger, better models.

      I’ve been following the Tesla since the Roadster was a prototype. You can believe what you hear about the S. My point, though is this: for not much less money, GM with unlimited resources around the world plus government bailout money brings out the peak of their technology and it’s a tin can smaller than a VW beetle that can only go 30 miles on a 12 hour charge. Without the gas engine for support, it’s a golf cart – good for maybe 27 holes, not useful in real life, if you drive beyond the city limits.

      What I meant to bring out is these Tesla guys, a few engineers tinkering in a garage, developed first go-karts, then the roadster and the energy management system that allows their batteries and thus their vehicles to be useful in a typical commuting person’s world.

      If these guys can do something lke that, whythehell can’t GM do orders of magnitude better? After all they have orders of magnitude more money and people and facilities… With mass production, you’d expect the Volt to cost $25k.

      I’ll be waiting for 2015 or so, when the Tesla price comes down closer to a normal luxury or near-lux sedan. Then my VW becomes the winter car and my wallet opens up and i’ll drive my 120 mile round trip on one charge and pocket the other $15.

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      And Tesla has said the first 1000+ units will be the top of the end $87K base price units. The $57K base version with a 130 mile “Tesla claimed range” (reality will likely be closer to 100 miles) won’t be available until 2013 or maybe 2014 (read Tesla’s own filings, it’s in there)

      • 0 avatar
        LDbonk

        So, to bring us back to the point, rather than picking nits about claimed range and such, even the bottom model Tesla get almost five times the range, is a full-size vehicle that carries six passengers and costs maybe $10k more (at the beginning of production (remember these early vehicles will be practically hand built – prices will come down with the factory production that is in the works partnered with Toyota).

        Yes, FIVE TIMES the range.

        My point was simple: how is it that GM with its almost unlimited resources AND government bailouts could only come up with a measly 30 miles and a slow charge (12 hours) when Tesla developed vehicles with orders of magnitude better performance (can a Volt outrun a Corvette or Ferrari like the Tesla Roadster?) and range while working in an old warehouse?

        That’s my gripe with the Volt given the available technology, why is it such a turd?

        Again I’ll point out: ALL new technology goes to the rich first. Besides being a law of nature, it’s good marketing.

  • avatar
    Thomas 1

    “Cant handle it from anyone else”
    Well pch 101, it’s also an old strategy to focus on a small statement when you cannot discuss or even argue the larger points. It’s a classic “dodge”. (Quite a pun here considering the topic)
    You focus on Fox News and everyone (including the reporters) are talking about the VOLT. Except for your 25 mile point. I will give you that.
    Do you really not get the points being made here? I know some of us (myself included) are passionate and sometimes not as polite as the PC society would like us to be…but you really cannot see the points being made by the majority who do not want this car and really don’t like that it was developed and is being sold with OPM. (Other Peoples Money)

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      “it’s also an old strategy to focus on a small statement when you cannot discuss or even argue the larger points.”

      This is a car website. Here, when things stay on topic, the focus is usually on the cars. We judge cars by their ability to fulfill or not fulfill their intended purpose, not by measures that we pulled out of our backsides.

      GM claims that the Volt will get 25-50 miles on a charge, before switching to the gas engine.

      Bozo on Fox claims is absolutely outraged he got 25 miles on a charge. Given the car’s capabilities, his diatribe makes no sense whatsoever. As noted, the smart people who post here — and there are some — judge cars by their ability to do their intended job.

      If this guy threw a tantrum over the fact that he couldn’t fit eight of his friends into a 911, then we would all laugh at him for being a half-wit. A 911 isn’t meant to carry eight people — if you want to carry eight people, you get something else.

      If this guy drove a Suburban and had a tantrum over the fact that he couldn’t get 35 mpg, then we would mock him for his failure to read the EPA rating. If you want better fuel economy than that, then get something smaller.

      If this guy got upset that he couldn’t drive a Honda Civic for 1,000 miles without stopping for gas, then we would rightly belittle him for being such a mental midget. Honda never claimed that anyone could possibly drive that far on a tank of gas, so he would have no good reason to expect it.

      GM claims that the Volt can travel 25-50 miles on a charge before switching to gas. If you absolutely have to have a car that has more than 25-50 miles range on its battery, then the answer is simple — don’t get a Volt.

      According to this account, the car apparently did what it was designed to do. If the reporter and his fans aren’t smart enough to figure out that a car doesn’t have to meet unreasonable expectations, then…well, I suppose he should keep his job at Fox, since he has an audience that is as addled as he is and that appreciates his profound lack of insight.

      • 0 avatar
        JapesMacfarland

        You wrote: “Bozo on Fox claims is absolutely outraged he got 25 miles on a charge.”

        Wrong. He said his trip was 20 miles tops; not 25. (He said his GPS has it at 18 something for the trip, and he said you could ‘add a couple miles for a dunkin donuts stop’.) Didn’t you watch the video? What are you talking about? Or are you just looking for an excuse to vent your typical leftist mean spiritedness (calling them and anyone who watches them stupid, etc.) Or am I missing something?

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        “Wrong. He said his trip was 20 miles tops”

        Er, maybe you need to watch the video. Direct quotes below:

        1:20 – “The car, on a full charge, gets only about 25 miles.”

        1:55 – “25 miles to a full charge.”

        He said it twice. Get over it.

      • 0 avatar
        JapesMacfarland

        1:10
        I live less than 20 miles from work, GPS has it at 18.8 miles. Thus he implied that his trip was less than 25 (and after charging “all night for 12 hours) but quoted the 25 as the specification he was given that was supposed to be the least. He ran out unexpectedly in the tunnel, because he was *expecting* at least 25 miles!
        Now get a life and stop calling people names. :)

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        “I live less than 20 miles from work, GPS has it at 18.8 miles.”

        But he likes donuts, and states that he doesn’t drive directly to work. Ergo, his comments:

        “The car, on a full charge, gets only about 25 miles.”

        “25 miles to a full charge.”

        Compare his comments to what Fox itself reported almost a year and a half ago: “The automaker now says the Volt can go 25 to 50 miles on battery power…The distance will depend on temperature, terrain, driving technique and the age of the lithium-ion batteries.”

        It’s winter. Winter isn’t optimal for electric cars. When GM advises that “The distance will depend on temperature”, they weren’t kidding.

        Consumer Reports figured this out, as it noted in this review. “The car’s electric range is very susceptible to cold weather, primarily because the heater runs on electricity.” http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine-archive/2011/april/cars/chevrolet-volt/overview/index.htm

        Perhaps he doesn’t bother with reading Fox’s website. (In that case, maybe he’s smarter than I thought.) But he ought to read Consumer Reports, which apparently does know something about cars. Unfortunately, he seems to be too busy being a drama queen to actually learn about the subject matter.

      • 0 avatar
        JapesMacfarland

        Yet, err, he *ran out in the tunnel* …obviously, or presumably because, as he said, his commute is only 18.8, with maybe a couple extra miles for a donut, he had charged it over night for 12 hours, and the specs he was told were 25. In other words, in his mind, he should have been able to make it to work since it was less than 25 miles away (18.8) yet he ran out of power instead and in the Lincoln tunnel.
        Yet, in spite of all this, you call him a drama queen? Is that your inherent lefty born hatred leaking out again? You’ve called him a liar and stupid, all the people on that show stupid, as well as their entire audience. Stupid liars. So what makes you their judge?

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        “his commute is only 18.8, with maybe a couple extra miles for a donut”

        You seem to have real problems with direct quotes.

        1:20 – “The car, on a full charge, gets only about 25 miles.”

        1:55 – “25 miles to a full charge.”

        He said 25. Twice. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Now you want to turn 25 into something less, even though he made a point of repeating something to the contrary.

        Again, it’s winter. The car gets fewer miles out of the battery in winter. 25 miles is at the lower end of the range. Maybe some folks on your side of the table lack the mental acuity to process what should be rather simple information, but I find it quite easy to figure out.

      • 0 avatar
        JapesMacfarland

        “Mental acuity”, lol, that’s rich. And you’re the one incapable of explaining why he ran out *unexpectedly*, nor can you explain the context of how this fits in with him having 18.8 to go (with tops, “a couple miles on top of that”) nor can you explain that he could have been stating what the range on the car dashboard said it was (as it was counting down) or that he was quoting the stats he was told the “minimum” distance he should be able to go is, in *any* weather (Winter or not) i.e., 25 miles.

        It’s a fail, but you don’t want to admit it because you’re a leftist. So you call names and presuppose ugly motives. Simple. :)

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        “that’s rich.”

        No, it’s accurate.

        It’s a car. The wingnuts in that intellectual vacuum called Fox want to turn it into a political football, but no matter how much you folks want to scream about it, it’s still a car.

        It may be a great car or a lousy one (I’m not generally a fan of GM products, so it wouldn’t surprise me if the car turns out in the long run to be the latter), but whatever it is, I wouldn’t expect this clown on Fox or his fan club to provide any insights about it. You folks would rather whine about it than judge it objectively.

      • 0 avatar
        JapesMacfarland

        You wrote: “You folks would rather whine about it than judge it objectively.”

        Yes, I understand that your premise is that we’re not judging it objectively. This is why I was pointing out, how it is actually yourself who is not seeing things clearly. Remember, genius, I am waiting for you to explain, with reason, why he ran out *unexpectedly* on an 18 to 20 mile trip (after being told it should go at least 25) Or how, before he left, he read that it should go 26 miles on the dashboard estimate, yet he ran out before that. O why, later when he was monologuing and said the 25, why he wasn’t just repeating the specs rather than the actual distance he himself was able to travel. Well?

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        “I am waiting for you to explain, with reason, why he ran out *unexpectedly* on an 18 to 20 mile trip”

        “The car, on a full charge, gets only about 25 miles.”

        “25 miles to a full charge.”

        Direct quotes. In your universe, 25=18, but in mine, 25=25.

        You must be in tears about the Mustang that got 15 mpg during a C/D instead of 17 mpg. Perhaps you could fight to expose Ford and its evil pony car that eats more hay than is claimed on the window sticker.

      • 0 avatar
        JapesMacfarland

        This is fun, because you’re the one calling people stupid, yet are incapable of understanding context and thus, the reality of what happened to the guy.
        1. He charged it overnight for 12 hours.
        2. He was told it would get at least 25 miles, but the dashboard estimated 26 before he left home for work.
        3. He shares that his entire trip is exactly 18.8 miles, but tack on an extra couple miles for a donut stop.
        4. He ran out of power before he got to his destination. i.e. before the 25 mile minimum he was told, and the 26 mile estimate the car had given him. Thus explaining why he was surprised about running out, and why he wasn’t impressed.

        Direct quotes are often only useful when used in context. In the context of this pathetic dialogue, your point is that people who are not leftists are stupid (and that he’s a liar and stupid) because we’re not able to look at objective facts. So I show you how you may have got this wrong, and you return with nonsense, and more name calling. Again, well done, genius. :)

      • 0 avatar
        niky

        “*3. He shares that his entire trip is exactly 18.8 miles, but tack on an extra couple miles for a donut stop.”

        So his “regular” trip is 18.8 miles.

        And then he adds on an EXTRA trip of unspecified length… which he mysteriously failed to GPS, and is shocked to run out of electricity when he knows the minimum range is 25 miles? And he had to suffer the indignity of driving the rest of the way on… gasp… gasoline?!?

        Hold the phone… If I take extra trips, I run out of gasoline faster?

        18.8 + x might equal 25 miles? Flabbergasting!

        Someone call the White House… I smell a conspiracy here.

        -

        Again. A big piece of non-news, and terribly unscientific testing.

        -

        Next up… Fox exposes how you can’t get sub-four second 0-60 times out of your Corvette on a dusty street with a full load of luggage and the air-conditioning on.

      • 0 avatar
        JapesMacfarland

        No Niky, what you wrote is not true: “…he adds on an EXTRA trip of unspecified length”

        He said that according to his GPS, the trip from his home to work is 18.8 miles, and that, on they way, if he stopped at Duncan donuts, then he could add a couple miles, tops. i.e., less than the 25 miles. So whether he stopped for donuts or not, either way, it was under the 25 miles, which is the point as to why he was surprised when he ran out in the Lincoln tunnel. Did you know were telling an untruth, or was this by accident?
        P.S.
        And nobody, ever, claimed it was supposed to be “scientific” or scientifically meaningful. If they did, then you could fairly express your scorn. For since they did not *and* he made clear it was just for him to try and give his impressions, you are nonsensical. (…as well as typically mean spirited, as is the Leftist MO.)

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        “18.8 + x might equal 25 miles? Flabbergasting!”

        It really is astonishing that an indirect route between point A and point B would be lengthier than a direct route. This must be some sort of liberal thing.

      • 0 avatar
        JapesMacfarland

        “18.8 + x might equal 25 miles? Flabbergasting!”

        Except that he specified ‘X’ as 2 or 3 miles, which equals, at the most 21.8, which is less than 25. Keep trying, genius.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        “Except that he specified ‘X’ as 2 or 3 miles”

        I know that you’re having a tough time with this, but the guy didn’t provide a yard-by-yard account of his commute.

        But he was kind enough to give us an alleged summary of his results. Twice.

        1:20 – “The car, on a full charge, gets only about 25 miles.”

        1:55 – “25 miles to a full charge.”

        If you have your doubts about his ability to work an abacus, then perhaps you should become his personal assistant so that you can properly account for his detours. According to you, the poor bugger doesn’t have enough arithmetic talent to count to 25. (You may have a point, though — I presume that he has only 20 fingers and toes.)

      • 0 avatar
        niky

        Let’s go back to how scientific “two or three miles” is.

        Is that two miles total, back and forth? Then that’s not a couple, that’s just two miles… If it’s “two or three miles” in one direction, 18.8 plus 3×2 is 24.8 miles. Close enough.

        The fact that he can’t specifically state exactly how far he went before the engine turned on means that he wasn’t paying enough attention. With a GPS device, you can measure down to less than a tenth of a mile how far you’ve actually driven.

        When he states that the distance itself is 18.8 miles, but that he went out of his way and did an extra side-trip, he’s admitting that he didn’t fully document the trip, thus any amazement at the car running out is his own damn fault for not accurately logging.

        Note: I don’t buy into the Volt bullcrap. I mean, it might be amazing to drive, but seriously, it’s too expensive to matter to me, as I review vehicles for a third-world market.

        Note: I review cars for a living (such as it is… pay sucks). Whenever I make claims about mileage, I top off the tanks, dust off the V-Box to eliminate odometer inaccuracy, and try my best to figure out exactly how much I’ve consumed and how far I’ve gone. The onboard computers are useless. Up to 10% useless, as many hypermilers can tell you. And your typical Garmin, being a lower-fidelity unit than the V-Box, is sometimes off, as well.

        If someone says his trip is “typically” 18.8 miles but CAN’T EVEN TELL ME HOW FAR HE ACTUALLY WENT, that just strikes me as sloppy journalism. Like saying you gained fifty pounds from eating three Big Macs a day without noting whether you’ve had snacks in between, or claiming global warming is caused primarily by human activity without controlling for natural causes.

        -

        And if he went just 24 miles, would it bother me? Having once gotten 6.58 mpg out of a V6 Explorer rated at 16-17 mpg in the city… not really. As the saying goes, YMMV. Which is why, when I test mileage (as in really test it), I do it over several tankfuls and trips, instead of a single, poorly documented charge and trip.

      • 0 avatar
        JapesMacfarland

        You wrote
        “According to you, the poor bugger doesn’t have enough arithmetic talent to count to 25.

        No, according to me he was rounding it up in his monologue in a context of agreeing with what the minimum specs he was given, were. (I’m sure you know that he knows that 18.8 + 2 = 20.8. You just couldn’t help but let your hate filled little beast out for attempts at dehumanizing others, could you lefty? ;) So in other, his obvious point is that even if he had gotten the supposed 25 (which he didn’t because he ran out in the tunnel, which was less than 25, because his trip is only 18.8 miles + 2, right, genius?) that this is still pretty pathetic. I know leftists have a totalitarian bent, but that’s his opinion, and you have to live with it. :)

      • 0 avatar
        JapesMacfarland

        “Is that two miles total, back and forth?”

        Since the context of him talking about adding miles to his regular trip of 18.8, was in supposing that he may, on some days, turn off for (say) a donut: this means that it would only add a couple miles and that there should still be enough to get to work if the 25 were true. In other words, he didn’t actually go to duncan donuts on this trip, but was saying if he were a potential customer, and had added up his daily own trip in miles, the most he would get to is 18.8 + (potentially) 3. Yet in this case, his surprise was that he didn’t even make the 18.8, since he ran out in the Lincoln tunnel.
        Wow.

      • 0 avatar
        niky

        And yet nowhere here does he actually specify how far he actually went or what the distance to the Lincoln Tunnel actually is.

        And, in case it turns out to be lowball, look back to my previous (long-winded) post. Still not bothered.

        I’ve actually test-driven electrics and hybrids for work.

        And, mind-blowingly, if you use the air-conditioning or heater in traffic, you lose range.

        Wow, who knew, right?

        An analogy is you’ve got a car that goes 25 miles to the gallon, as per the EPA City cycle. You have an 18.8 mile trip. You drive. You’re in traffic. Hell, you’re in frigging New York city in the winter. You’ve got the heater going. You stop at a few stoplights. Are you terribly surprised that you don’t get 25 miles before you run out of gas? You shouldn’t be, if you know anything about where the energy to run the heater and the lights in your car comes from.

        It’s a pet peeve, whenever someone complains their car, rated for (unspecified economy number) gets a lower (unspecified economy number) on their commute. YMMV, and all that. If you want to match EPA numbers, drive exactly like the EPA. If you want to exceed EPA numbers, drive better.

        While I agree that a 20-ish mile range is terribly inconvenient, the point is moot, since the car is a hybrid, and the gasoline engine has more than enough range to get you back home at a reasonable 30-40 mpg. (Which would be better if they dropped that turd of a 1.4 and put in something smaller and more efficient)

        And, again, I think the Volt, all $40k of it, is an extremely niche product that doesn’t really matter for those of us who don’t have the jack to buy one.

      • 0 avatar
        JapesMacfarland

        Niky: “And yet nowhere here does he actually specify how far he actually went or what the distance to the Lincoln Tunnel actually is.”

        Yes, he did. He said his trip to work is 18.8 miles (which includes going through the Lincoln tunnel. That’s the whole point.

        “he went out of his way and did an extra side-trip, he’s admitting that he didn’t fully document the trip”

        No, he was saying this (about a donut stop) as an example that if were a potential customer who had an 18.8 mile trip to work, he would add on a couple of miles, for, say, a donut stop, in his considering whether or not to buy the car. He wasn’t saying he actually make a 2 mile detour in this trip in which he ran out.

        Anyway, I agree with all your points about the car itself. I was just responding to the knee jerk leftist inclination (of the other poster) to presuppose motives and call people stupid and liars; and without justification. I’m sick and tired of the left’s mean spirited and unfair and dishonest tactics in their attempt to demonize those who disagree with them. That’s my pet peave.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        You’re wasting your time, Niky. This guy is never going to get it.

      • 0 avatar
        JapesMacfarland

        “This guy is never going to get it.”

        Get what, that your insults are not only low class, mean spirited and obnoxious, but that I’ve proven them irrational as well? ;)

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        Niky has been very patient with you. It obviously hasn’t done any good.

        This is a car website. Maybe you should learn something about cars prior to commenting about them.

        Then again, Fox could use this as a springboard for the Evil Mustang Series. Episodes could include:

        -Mustang: The Car That Doesn’t Hold 8 People!!! (OHMIGAWD!)

        -Mustang: The Car That Won’t Travel 700 Miles on a Tank of Gas!!! (JESUS, SAVE US!!!)

        -Mustang: We Only Got 15 mpg in the Lincoln Tunnel, Even Though It’s Rated at 26 mpg Highway!!! (LORD, SAVE US FROM EVIL!)

        -Mustang: It Uses More Gasoline than a Fiesta!!! (WHERE IS OBAMA WHEN WE NEED HIM?!?!)

        and my personal favorite,

        -Mustang: The Steering Wheel…IS ON THE LEFT!!! OHMIGAWD!!!!!

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        I’m with Japes on this one. The trouble with open forums is that everyone is welcome to comment, even those who possess all the pearls of wisdom and have the answer to every problem since the beginning of time. When one of these gurus is convinced they are right, you can’t question them. It is a threat and insult to their wisdom. They don’t have any practical experience, just wisdom.

        Because Eric Bolling questioned the wisdom of the GM bail out and was opposed to the Solyndra-like promotion of the Volt makes him an easy target for people who promote such ventures in futility. Running out of battery power and having the generator kick in after such a limited distance only re-enforced his own beliefs. Worse yet, it may also have re-enforced the beliefs of other nay-sayers and GM-haters, further threatening future sales of the Volt.

        At the same time I believe that the Volt should be available for sale to the public, just not at tax payer expense. If the Volt had been any other bad seller, GM would have pulled the plug a long time ago.

        With the Volt it is different. GM is betting their future on that overpriced batteries-included toy. And even though sales are in the tank for a variety of reasons, we can expect an onslaught of all sorts of positive spin and PR promoting the Volt in the future.

        Ultimately, the consumers will decide if the Volt is worth buying, or not. So far, the answer is not. Maybe in ten years or so……

      • 0 avatar
        JapesMacfarland

        Wow, you’re really proving to be a bit slow there, 101. ;)
        It was you who brought up politics, when you called him, them, and anyone who watches them or who has posted on this board, stupid; and, when you implied the guy in the vid is a liar. (And you backed up your ‘stupid’ accusation by saying those specifically non-leftist posters weren’t being objective; so I proved you wrong.)
        And I agreed with Niki’s point about the car. Pay attention!

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        “It was you who brought up politics”

        No, it was your friend at Fox who politicized it.

        I’m pointing out that this wasn’t a news story or even a decent review of the car, but just a big pile of dimwitted spin. As a car, it did what it was supposed to do.

        This clown had absolutely nothing substantive to say about the car as a car. He fails to provide basic factual details, i.e. that the car behaved within manufacturer spec. What a maroon.

      • 0 avatar
        JapesMacfarland

        You wrote:
        “No, it was your friend at Fox who politicized it.”
        And
        “This clown…What a maroon.”

        Lol., if you don’t know that environmentalism is an inherently political issue (considering a wildly disproportionate number of people on the Left support radical changes in policy and government growth, across the board, compared to conservatives.) than it is you who are a maroon. And if you can’t tell the difference between an intentionally light-hearted, often un-serious morning show compared to a hard news broadcast, than it is you who are the clown; intellectually that is. ;)

      • 0 avatar
        joeaverage

        So how long did the car sit “idling” with the accessories and heat on? I find that when I idle my gasoline powered car in stopped traffic it continues to consume gasoline. Did he leave passengers in the car at the coffee shop while he ran inside for 15-20 minutes (standing in line) and did those passengers run the heat while the car was parked?

        How hot did he have the heat set to? I find in my gasoline powered car that on exceptionally hot days when I have the a/c on max recirc that the a/c compressor clutch remains engaged more and my car consumes more fuel. Might it be that the Fox fellow had the heat on high? Might it have been a very cold morning and the little heat pump was running full tilt?

        We’re debating 7 miles worth of energy. My gasoline powered car’s MPG varies a little depending on where and how I drive it including how cold or hot it is. Le’ts move on please. This horse is very, very dead.

  • avatar
    Domestic Hearse

    Dear B&B,

    This article is now front-page linked on Drudge Report. A lot of new eyeballs have clicked through and are observing the debate here (much to the delight unique-view-count-loving editors here at TTAC). Let’s all see if we can take a deep breath and conduct ourselves with the degree of decorum and respect one usually finds here without devolving into divisive political discourse and discontent. Dig?

    • 0 avatar

      We don’t hold ourselves hostage to any traffic metric, just our own standards of quality. Wednesday is the Chicago Auto Show, and Jack will be covering it live from the show floor. If you are unclear on what it means when a site is not beholden to metrics, only good work, you will see it in action tomorrow.

    • 0 avatar
      ImaWatchman

      I am one who got to this debate thru the Drudge link. The back and forth on both sides have been interesting to read. From my perspective, regardless of advertising claims, if the Volt works for you and you like how it looks and rides and are willing to spend the money, go for it. If on the other hand you have no use for the Volt then get something you will enjoy to drive. The point I keep coming back to is that our hard earned tax money, whether you are for or against bailouts, was used to build this vehicle. If you buy the Volt using our tax dollars so you can drive 25 – 50 miles on a battery, then I guess the joke is on us taxpayers. If on the other hand you fork out upwards of $47,000 on the Volt because you think you are somehow “saving the planet” or getting us away from “evil oil”, then I guess the joke is on you.

  • avatar
    Matt Phinish

    Remember a few years ago when Chrysler made an open-wheel street rod looking car? I forget what they called it. They didn’t expect to sell 10′s of millions of them. They knew they were building it for a niche market.
    That is what GM doesn’t get. Only a narrow segment of the public is going to buy a Volt.

  • avatar

    I have to side with those people saying that the Volt wasn’t ready for prime time. I object to the government favoring on technology over another. That doesn’t mean I don’t favor energy efficiency. I do. However, it is my choice. I bought CFL bulbs back when they were $12.00 each. It wasn’t because the government told me to. It was because even at $12.00, I could see an economic advantage over time.

    I now drive a Ford Fiesta. It is rated at 40 mpg on the highway. I have been able to coax it to 50 mpg and I can get over 34 mpg in traffic. When I did my taxes, I saw that had I choose a Hybrid car, I would have gotten a tax credit. Why? If energy efficiency is the point, then why not get credit for driving an energy efficient gasoline car?

    I used to live in Thailand. The Thais have done a very good job getting taxis, buses and commercial vehicles to use natural gas. There is a program that allows taxi drivers to pay for their retrofits by adding a few cents to their natural gas purchases until the retrofits are paid for. The taxi drivers use a smart card to track this.

    The US has an abundance of natural gas. Natural gas can provide better range than the Volt.

    My Ford Fiesta, a Ford Focus, or a Hundai Elantra will provide 40 mpg. These cars sell for $18,000 to $24,000. If a Volt can only go 40 miles or so per charge and then the driver is operating at 37 mpg, then how long would it take to save money? If the owner drove every day, that would be 14,600 miles per year on electricity.

    Let’s assume that this 14,600 miles represents the total savings that can possibly be achieved in one year. That would be equal to saving 365 gallons of gasoline over buying a 40 mpg car. At $4.00 per gallon, the maximum savings would be $1,460 and that assumes the electricity if free. When the Volt is operating on gasoline it is actually less fuel efficient than the 40 mpg cars available.

    As we know, electricity isn’t free. In fact, the cost of electricity has been going. The following quote is from “autobloggreen”:

    “During its time with us, our 2011 Chevy Volt tester consumed energy at the rate of 39.0 kilowatt-hours per 100 miles when in electric-only mode and averaged 31.1 mpg in gas engine assistance mode. We paid an average of $0.31 per kilowatt-hour of electricity and $3.31 per gallon of 91 octane swill, so the magic of arithmetic tells us that each one of the Volt’s miles driven on electricity cost us more money than if it’d simply consumed gasoline instead. That’s due in part to our high electricity rate – had our rate dropped to $0.24 per kilowatt-hour, we’d have reached parity on a cost-per-mile basis between electrons and dinosaurs.”

    There are many advances being made in gasoline engines that will allow Americans to drive the cars they enjoy driving efficiently. The upcoming Ford Escape promises 33/34 mpg. This is better than the current Hybrid version of the Escape.

    Americans are smarter than our politicians give us credit for. We know the size of our families, our commuting habits and our budgets. Buying a car has many considerations, some personal, some financial and some practical.

    Americans are smart enough to know that the Volt doesn’t offer a value proposition when one considers that the maximum savings that can be achieved is limited by the total miles that can be driven in a day from a single charge. They also realize that while electricity might be less expensive that ultimately, the states are going to put taxes on electric cars to recover the lost revenue from taxes they now collect from gasoline and that at some point the batteries have to be changed and that cost also has to be added into the equation.

  • avatar
    Zykotec

    This whole story, and a bunch of the comments are just…I don’t even know where to start. The political discussion stuff vs. the GM hater stuff, and all From someone looking into the US from the outside:
    -Obama is still pretty far right , almost to the point of conservative christian,so relax. There’s not that much of a socialistic liberal in him, as seen from our side of the atlantic. He seems to have more common sense than his predecessor (not much of a challenge, I know)
    Bailing out GM was more an act of saving a failed capitalistic system, not to mention saving a h**k of a lot of jobs, and I believe the tax money from those jobs saved will easily pay those bailout dollars back, so relax.
    The Volt didn’t turn out to be the greatest car ever built. It still seems like a nice deal for those who live and work with such distances that it makes sense. Saying you hate the Volt because it gets 25 miles on a charge and you live 30 miles from work, is the same as saying you hate CR-V’s because your garage door is only 5 ft tall. Don’t buy one if it doesn’t suit your needs.
    Fox news are laughed at all over the free world. Actually, we soemtimes wonder if all the clips we see over here are just made as parodies of right wing weirdos, but evidence sugest that they are actually that stupid. If they really have any sort of agenda ,besides trying to cause drama, they aren’t very subtle about it :P

    • 0 avatar
      saab_lurker

      Your comments about Obama being pretty far right will create a few thousand laughs this evening now that the Drudge Report has linked to this page.

    • 0 avatar
      beafrank

      And you are a spokesperson for the world? Fox News has been the top news channel in the nation for the last ten years because of its balanced new coverage. No other news organization test drove a Volt and broadcasted their findings. The whole reasoning behind the creation of electric cars is a false and the only reason they are being built is federal government mandates and subsidies. The real world tests indicates the car does not perform as advertised unless it runs on gas. Therefore, what is the point? The paradox of the entire electric car concept is that petroleum and coal are the primary fuels to generating electricity. If electric cars are viable, let the private market and economic freedom determine its fate.

    • 0 avatar
      JapesMacfarland

      You wrote “Obama is still pretty far right”

      Okay, than I challenge you to name a single policy or even philosophy he has, which inherently differs from the socialist democrats of Europe. Just one.

      • 0 avatar
        Zykotec

        As much as I hate beating dead horses, he has learned a lot from the european systems, which have been proven to work a lot better than whatever the last 20-30 years of american politics have, until some countries just took it too far Trying to save jobs and help a country that has gone far over the edge doesn’t make him a leftist socialist automatically, it’ probably got more to do with saving lives. (when the voters realize they can vote themselves money etc. Here’s a link for those interested in politics, and that can bother to read stuff…
        http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2008

  • avatar
    Iambic PentaMaster

    There once was a car they called Volt,
    Chevy dealers had a revolt,
    They’re its opponent,
    Its chief proponent?
    A guy we call President Dolt.

  • avatar
    dafrank

    I am a political conservative. Generally, but with a few exceptions, I can say that I think that Fox News carries a more accurate and fair portayal of political, economic and cultural reality than the news divisions of any other TV network. This, however, doesn’t mean that I always agree with them, either in the aggregate or the particular. Forgive my frank rudeness here, but there are two people on Fox News that I think behave as though they are just plain dumb. One is Shepard Smith and the other is Eric Bolling. This video does nothing to change my assessment.

    I don’t think that the so-called “auto bailout” was necessarily the best solution to public policy which would have worked to help the US auto companies survive the financial tsunami that swept over them in 2007 and 2008. Perhaps a much lighter government footprint, or none at all, would have sufficed. But, enough representatives of both political parties chose the route that was taken. That is a given. What Bolling has unceasingly done in his Fox appearances, at every single possible opportunity, is to villify General Motors and, to a slightly lesser extent, Chrysler, for having “taken the bailout.”

    And, perhaps because it bears the double whammy of both GM parentage and a connection to President Obama’s wasteful, stupid and politically driven environmental initiatives, he has singled out the Volt for relentless attack for the past six months. This is all beside the point when looking at the volt as a platform for brand new electric vehicle technology. Would I buy one? Probably not and certainly not at the current cost, government subsidy or not. But, given GM’s research and development, and the demands from their government “supervisors” (board members and executives beholden to Obama who were appointed by officials acting as sort of pseudo-receivers) to build a vehicle to express the perfect enviro-vehicle, GM really had no choice but to create and try to sell the Volt. Given that, the Volt really is a near miracle – a government mandated product using government approved technology, built by private industry to provide the public with something that, actually, they didn’t necessarily want – and it still is very near to a breakthrough product.

    Others have already outlined Bollings rather stupid confusion of the GM statements about the Volt’s pure electric range under grossly different demnands and operating conditions. More misleading still is the impression given that Bolling was stranded in the middle of the Holland or Midtown tunnel when the Volt battery gave up. Of course, one of the major features which distinguish the Volt is that, despite it being able to act as a pure electric plug-in that, when and if the battery runs out, the car merely switches on the small gas engine which, in turn, replaces the battery by driving alternator-generated electric power to the electric engine to move the car. Simply put, the stored energy to run this electric car switches from the energy stored in batteries to the energy stored in gasoline. This is not the same as in a pure gas hybrid like a Prius, and is a step up the electric car evolutionary ladder from it. So Bolling’s Volt would have (and, I assume, did)seamlessly, continued to run without a single note of change except by what you could read in the instrument panel, motoring out of the tunnel to wherever he was headed without incident. Additionally, his overall cost per mile, in gas and electricity costs combined, was certainly enormously lower than whatever he could have achieved with almost any other mode of auto transportation and certainly lower than the bogus figures he presented.

    Overall, while I am am neither an enthusiast or a potential buyer for the Volt, Bolling’s continuous assault on the vehicle’s reputation seems to be a case of misplaced political animosity, and his recent video is ridiculous.

  • avatar
    beafrank

    The facts hurt. The primary problem is that the whole argument and ideas behind ‘alternative fuel’ is a fallacy. There is no ‘global warming’, ‘greenhouse gas effect’, ‘finite petroleum sources’, ‘dirty fuel’ and ‘oil wars’. Crude and gases are natural elements of the earth. Socialism and ‘progressive’ thought invented these agendas to render control over free societies. OPEC, environmentalism, slow-growth and anti-family thought are leftists agendas to leverage control over the free world especially America. The greatest progress of man economically and individually has occurred since the founding of the United States with its constitution establishing a society where economic, political and judicial structures are based on individual freedoms expounded in the Bible. In human history, American exceptionalism has raised the wealth and well-being for the whole world while despots for the antithetical liberal, socialist and progressive control has and continues to enslave, slaughter and retard mankind.

    Oil is renewable reference:
    http://dimensionalbliss.com/2010/12/04/is-oil-actually-a-renewable-resource/
    Biofuel fallacy:
    http://jeffconant.wordpress.com/2010/11/06/biofuels-fallacy-why-burning-plants-instead-of-fossil-fuels-wont-save-the-climate/

    How much mankind since the creation of USA and petroleum use.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkSRLYSojo
    http://www.convergeproject.org/node/101

  • avatar
    GRIZZ

    Oh my GOD… are you people SERIOUS?? You are going to DEFEND a piece of CRAP car that only gets 35 miles MAXIMUM on a full charge??? Who CARES if the heat was on or the car wasn’t driven so carefully as to optimize mileage??? Do you NOT SEE THE LUNACY IN THIS??? It is NOT a “GREEN” car..
    It runs on COAL PRODUCED ELECTRICITY!!! Why can you NOT UNDERSTAND THAT??? It is full of toxic acid in the batteries, LEAD and who knows WHAT else… the FACT that GM SQUANDERED OUR TAXPAYER DOLLARS ON THIS P.O.S. SPEAKS FOR ITSELF… the FACT that ANY OF YOU are sitting there NIT-PICKING about a few miles more or less while IGNORING THE STUPIDITY of a $46,000 “green” car that gets THIRTY-FIVE MILES TO A CHARGE absolutely PROVES how pitiful and IGNORANT YOU ARE. The heads of GM AND the Obama administration should ALL BE IN JAIL FOR THEFT AND WASTE of taxpayer
    dollars. You people on the lunatic left are amazingly deft at ignoring FACTS, LYING, COVERING UP, RATIONALIZING and being BLIND FOLLOWERS OF A MARXIST PRESIDENT WHOSE ADMITTED MENTOR IS AN AMERICAN TERRORIST. If you think for one minute this man’s goal isn’t to tear down AMERICA and reshape it into a SOCIALIST MECCA… you don’t DESERVE to LIVE IN AMERICA because ANYONE WHO SUPPORTS THE DESTRUCTION OF THIS COUNTRY IS GUILTY OF TREASON. PERIOD.

    • 0 avatar
      replica

      Woah there buddy.

      Excessive use of poor grammar and the caps lock key isn’t going to raise George Washington from his grave to give you a thumbs up for your post here.

      • 0 avatar
        ThunderclapNewman

        Yes, Sister. Would you like for him to diagram his sentences, too. His visuals notwithstanding, GRIZZ is absolutely right. In basic physics, we learned that energy is conserved. Right? There is a fixed amount of energy in this universe. No more is created or destoyed. It can only be changed from one form to another.The cells in the batteries for the Volt are electrochemical. however, you just don’t simply pour chemicals in the cells and “make” majical energy. Since the cells only store energy, they must be “charged” first. This can be done with a windmill, solar panels, or a mouse in wheel, but at the present it will most likely be charged with….how would GRIZZ describe it? COAL, OIL, GAS, NUCLEAR, WOOD, DAMS AND SMOKESTACKS.

    • 0 avatar
      kenzter

      OH MY GOD! GO AWAY!

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      But you know what the GRIZZ says in his next breath?

      Damn Washington goombas better have that darn corn ethanol subsidy check in the mailbox to me.

      Spa-ting!

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      Hey Grizz, you’ll love this one from George W. Bush yesterday. I figure you won’t dismiss Bloomberg as a liberal rag…

      http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-02-07/bush-tells-dealers-he-avoided-gamble-in-bailing-out-automakers.html

      …Former U.S. President George W. Bush told car dealers gathered at a convention in Las Vegas he “didn’t want to gamble” with a depression in defending the loans he gave to General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC.

      “I didn’t want there to be 21 percent unemployment,” Bush said in a speech yesterday to cap the annual National Automobile Dealers Association convention, attended by more than 20,000 people. “I didn’t want to gamble. I didn’t want history to look back and say, ‘Bush could have done something but chose not to do it.’ And so I said, ‘no depression.’”

      The Bush administration provided loans to GM and Chrysler starting with $4 billion to each company in December 2008 and January 2009. Bush eventually provided $17.4 billion in aid to the automakers before Barack Obama’s administration expanded the rescue of the companies to $62 billion.

      Obama has cited the assistance given to the auto industry as an example of policy that protected U.S. jobs. Republican presidential candidates including Mitt Romney have criticized the moves by Bush and Obama as bailouts that interfered with private markets and contributed to the national deficit.

      “I’d make the same decision again if I had to,” Bush, 65, told Stephen Wade, the dealers association’s outgoing chairman…

      George W. Bush. Guilty of treason. Go git’ ‘em GRIZZ!!!

    • 0 avatar
      benjr@jbimporters.com

      First of all Griz, you probably don’t have a Volt so you’re probably not as informed as I am since I own one and am in love with it. GM claims the Volt gets about 35 miles per charge, but I have been averaging 47 miles per charge.

      Electricity is not all produced by coal. Some of it is produced by other, more environmentally-friendly fuel sources.

      The battery is lithium-ion, not lead-acid based.

      But wait a minute, I suspect that you’re not an open-minded person, so maybe I shouldn’t be wasting my time replying to your rant anyway.

    • 0 avatar
      danwat1234

      The batteries are not full of toxic materials. It is Lithium, no harm to environment if thrown in the trash, although best to recycle it because there is a lot of metal that can be reclaimed.

  • avatar
    mmilesll

    How much more evidence do we need on the Volt. GM was once THE car company, now is it run a clowns picked out by the government. What a great shame

    • 0 avatar
      joeaverage

      Supposedly GM is run by a new batch of clowns b/c the ones that ran it into the ground were forced out during the bailouts. And supposedly as reported right here in TTAC GM’s current quality is way, way up. I’ll reserve my own judgement until the current batch of vehicles has 200K+ miles on them. I’m still watching my relatives and friends wear out their batch of old GM products.

  • avatar
    black83zee

    These people are grossly misinformed on the Volt….It is NOT a hybrid. It is an electric car that has a small gas generator that’s used to recharge the battery as you go along. There is no provision for the gas motor to propel the car; it’s just there to charge the batteries. A hybrid can be propelled by either the gas motor or an electric motor. 65 miles per gallon is normal with the Volt. One owner has recorded 7500 miles on 3 tanks of gas! It is a good product….I just think GM has done a terrible job of marketing it. There’s no information or advertising on it….you’re just supposed to “find out” about it on your own…which leaves it up to people like Fox to fill in the voids!

    • 0 avatar
      mcs

      According to SAE Official Terminology (J1715), the Volt is an Extended Range Electic Vehicle, which is a type of PHEV – plug-in hybrid electric vehicle. So it’s a hybrid according to the SAE.

      http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/pdfs/merit_review_2011/veh_sys_sim/vss052_duoba_2011_o.pdf

    • 0 avatar
      danwat1234

      Actually there is 1 condition in which the gas engine can directly power the wheels. This 1 condition is when the battery is depleted and you are at cruising speed, the computer may calculate that it would be more efficient to directly power the wheels with the gas engine instead of using the engine to charge the battery through the generator, and then powering the electric motor(s) with the battery after going through some voltage regulators.
      But yeah, other than that, it is 100% electric.
      I hope they sell more Volts in the future and battery technology advances so it can be cheaper.

  • avatar
    bobbleheadguru

    1. Bolling got over 100MPG by my calculations. That would put his mileage at about double the next best hybrid (Prius).

    This data was very prominently displayed in his car each time he powered down. It would be hard not to notice.

    Instead of using his actual data, he made up numbers by stating that if he drove 275 miles without plugging in, his mileage would only be “about 30″. His actual mileage was 3 times higher than his made up projection.

    2. Bolling did not dispute the claim that the car broke down. He just stayed quiet. Perhaps he felt a slight amount of guilt, but later stating the 275 mile range.

    3. According to “Volt-Stats DOT net”, which uses real data from OnStar. The average Volt driver gets over 110MPG.

  • avatar
    bobbleheadguru

    1. Bolling got over 100MPG by my calculations. That would put his mileage at about double the next best hybrid (Prius).

    This data was very prominently displayed in his car each time he powered down. It would be hard not to notice.

    Instead of using his actual data, he made up numbers by stating that if he drove 275 miles without plugging in, his mileage would only be “about 30″. His actual mileage was 3 times higher than his made up projection.

    2. Bolling did not dispute the claim that the car broke down. He just stayed quiet. Perhaps he felt a slight amount of guilt, by later stating the 275 mile range.

    3. According to “Volt-Stats DOT net”, which uses real data from OnStar. The average Volt driver gets over 110MPG.

  • avatar
    black83zee

    Anybody know if the Volt will depreciate any faster or slower than a normal car?

  • avatar
    benjr@jbimporters.com

    This headline is very misleading. It makes it sound like the car stalled in the Lincoln Tunnel, which it did not. When the battery runs out of juice, it’s normal for the car to automatically switch to the gasoline-powered back-up generator, which then continues to charge the battery and keep the electric motor going. This guy says that he got 25 miles to the battery. GM claims 35 miles. I actually get 46-49 miles. It depends on how much weight is in the car, how aggressive you drive, etc. This guy admittedly drives aggressively since you heard them talk about him tailgating while he was driving in traffic.

    Fox News apparently has it in for GM, but from I can see from my Volt, I’m in love with it. I’m up to about 400 MPG so far. I anticipate filling up the 9 gallon tank only once per year. For someone who hates giving my money to countries that sell us oil, I think that’s great. Anyone can get 400+ MPG as long as their daily commute doesn’t exceed 40 miles round trip. And if it does exceed that, then the MPG depends on the length of the actual commute. For example, for a 70 mile round-trip commute, you would average about 70 MPG. But anything with an average commute of less than 40 would be over 400 MPG. Most people don’t commute more than 40 miles per day, so most people can average about 400 MPG.

    I’m a Republican who is also extremely concerned about our environment. I have followed Fox News for 10+ years. After hearing this report, I will never visit Fox News’ website again. In fact, after hearing Eric Bolling and friends spew about the Chevy Volt and seeing their total disregard for our environment, I’m actually considering leaving the Republican party.

    • 0 avatar
      joeaverage

      Glad to see there is someone that can mix a concern for the environment, concern for the American economy and some logic with political conservatism. I’d buy a Volt or Leaf today but it’s not in my budget yet.

  • avatar
    danwat1234

    Hey Eric Bolling! You did a real bad job with the Volt. Where exactly is electricity $1.16 per Kilowatt hour??? Where I live it is $0.08! The Volt didn’t leave you stranded in the Lincoln tunnel, it had over 200 miles left on the gas tank after the battery ran low. You suck. You might want to retake basic algebra and a few classes on decent reporting

    • 0 avatar
      JapesMacfarland

      How do you know he had 200 miles left in the tank? I didn’t see that…

      • 0 avatar
        Baby Koop

        At about 1:07 in the clip he switches from CD (Charge Depletion) to CS (Charge Sustaining) mode. It’s a fancy way to say that the gas engine turned on. Anyway, you will see that the battery symbol goes up and the gas symbol comes down (they swap places). The gas tank symbol shows how full it is and it gives the approximate range given your recent driving pattern. In this case he had 214 miles on it.

        So, despite his whining, he could have driven from there (New York City) to Boston without needing to plug back in or stop by a gas station.

  • avatar
    danwat1234

    You talked about being scared about being electrocuted one time when you wanted to plug the car in while it was raining. The J1772 recharging port is water proof. There is technology in place that makes getting electrocuted impossible. Power won’t flow until the computer in the car sees a complete electrical connection, then and only then will it start to flow power. I suppose it might be possible to be electrocuted, but you’d have to get a hammer and a flat head screw driver and try to pierce the insulation of the wire…

  • avatar
    black83zee

    People on here still don’t get it! The Volt is an electric car! The gas motor in it is just for the generator to recharge the batteries! It does not run in the gas motor at all! The gas motor is NOT connected to the drive at all!

    • 0 avatar
      danwat1234

      @black83zee,
      Actually there is 1 and only 1 condition where the engine will actually power the wheels directly and not act as just a generator. This is when the battery is depleted to it’s low level (30% if I remember right), and you are driving on the highway. The computer may calculate that it would be more efficient to directly power the wheels via the engine, rather than have the engine run the generator, and then run power out of the battery into the voltage regulators, and then from the voltage regulators to the electric motors, to the wheels.

      But other than that, like if the battery has any range left, yea, totally 100% electric drivetrain.

      • 0 avatar
        Baby Koop

        Both black83zee and danwat1234 are close but not quite right in their assessments. I bought my Volt almost exactly one year ago (March 19th, 2011). At that time they were giving away a book written about the Volt and a flip camera that had the Volt insignia on it. Anyway, in the book they mention that there are 7 or 8 (I forget off the top of my head) unique situations where the engineers at GM knew it was more efficient for the gas engine to provide some direct torque to the wheels.

        This caused a big stink because some EV enthusiasts thought that even 1 time was dishonoring the promise of the Volt. I personally think it would have been stupid to satisfy these people and to purposefully design a less efficient system that needlessly burned more gas than need be.

        Regardless, if anybody is really curious about how many instances (7 or 8) and what they are I could perhaps dig that information up from the book. IIRC, the book didn’t list all 7 or 8 instances but I think the people over at gm-volt.com made a comprehensive list and it is up on that website.

  • avatar
    joeaverage

    http://news.yahoo.com/gm-suspend-production-chevrolet-volt-212519638.html

  • avatar
    RogerT135

    I own a Volt. I have a 112 mile daily commute. I plug in at home and while I’m at work. I get 45 miles out of a battery charge. No I don’t drive aggressively, and I moderately use the AC/Heat. But, at the end of the day I went from using 4 gallons of gas a day, on the same commute, to half a gallon of gas. But, somehow I should be convinced that the Volt does not perform as promised. That is a flat out lie. Maybe I’d buy in to all this crap about the heater not working, less than promised range etc. if I didn’t already own a Volt, and didn’t already know different. But, that’s the goal right? Influence the people that don’t know any better about how the car actually performs…
    P.S. Eric Bolling, nice try, but you’re a moron!!


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  • Marcelo De Vasconcellos, Brazil
  • Matthias Gasnier, Australia
  • W. Christian 'Mental' Ward, Abu Dhabi
  • Mark Stevenson, Canada
  • Faisal Ali Khan, India