By on April 13, 2016

2017 Lincoln Continental

UPDATE: Other sites seem to have received some additional information from dealers. It has been added below the jump.

Those looking to put down money on one of the most storied nameplates in Lincoln’s history will have to shell out $45,485, which includes destination and delivery, for the privilege.

For that near-as-makes-no-difference $50,000, Lincoln will build you a Continental Premiere with a 3.7-liter V6 engine that sends power to the front wheels.

According to Lincoln spokesperson Stephane Cesareo, and counter to a recent report by CarsDirect, the Lincoln Continental will not launch with cash incentives. Instead, Lincoln will offer the vehicle with its typical financing deal of 1.9% APR up to 60 months.

The Continental is “a very important vehicle for us, a very important vehicle for Lincoln,” Cesareo said in a phone call with TTAC. A high level of interest from customers has garnered 40,000 hand-raisers for the car, he said. Not quite Tesla Model 3 levels of interest, but phenomenally healthy for any Lincoln introduced in the last 15 to 20 years.

Lincoln’s newest sedan debuted in concept guise last year to massive intrigue after intense speculation from the automotive press. The automaker followed up the concept with the reveal of a production version this past January at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit.

More detailed pricing information for the Continental will be available later today, and dealers can take pre-orders for the Continental starting today. The first production run should arrive at dealers toward the end of Q3 2016.


The Ignition Blog is reporting that Continentals powered by the optional 400-horsepower, 3.0-liter twin-turbo V6 can be priced up to a “staggering $72,000 with every option checked.” We will know for sure later today.

The same site is also stating that “the first 1,500 to place an order will receive a limited-edition, framed rendering of Continental that has been signed by Lincoln Design Director David Woodhouse.”

This is the first time I’ve heard of David Woodhouse, but I’m sure he’s a nice guy with excellent penmanship.

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316 Comments on “OFFICIAL: 2017 Lincoln Continental Gets $45,485 MSRP, Pre-Orders Open Now...”


  • avatar
    Drzhivago138

    I’m still on the fence about those wheels.

    • 0 avatar
      CoreyDL

      I’m not, they need to go! There’s another option I’ve seen which is not turbine-based and looks infinitely better, basically an Infiniti wheel.

      http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/lincoln-continental-15-1280×720.jpg

      They’ve been spotted in production form on random lots with a weird copper look to the windshield, like a Town Car from 1990 with that gold element heated windscreen.

      http://www.tflcar.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/2017_lincoln_continental_102-620×465.jpeg

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        The ones on the Lincoln site are probably the one’s you’re referring to.

      • 0 avatar
        Sloomis

        Wheels and the goofy placement of the door handles both need to go. Otherwise, this is a nice looking car, better looking than any current Cadillac by far, imo.

        • 0 avatar
          CoreyDL

          I like the -idea- of putting the handles up high on the window, though the touch gimmick is a bit much. But if they’re touch anyway, there’s no need for them to be so big. I think a much flatter design would have been more appropriate and just as usable.

          • 0 avatar
            whynot

            I’m not sure how much flatter you can make them. You have to design them to be comfortable to grip.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            Maybe some sort of indentation instead? Push button and pop-out like an Aston Martin?

          • 0 avatar
            whynot

            That would be cool, but I suspect Ford really wanted the handles up by the chrome strip and there is probably not enough space for a mechanism like that there unless you happen to enjoy fixed windows.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            Bah, damn glass being solid and such. You’re right. We need an engineer to suggest an alternate solution. Pillar mount handles like on a Beretta maybes.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            I think it was inspired by the hidden door pulls on the ’61 Thunderbird (which IIRC was orignally intended to be a Lincoln.)

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            Ah ha. I know you are correct on the Thunderbird. That’s why it was so dang luxurious.

        • 0 avatar
          ponchoman49

          Yet several online Yahoo poles sent out a Continental VS CT6 voting poll and the Cadillac came away far ahead of this Lincoln for styling.

  • avatar
    JCraig

    You can easily get a Genesis 5.0 at this price right now as Hyundai clears out the ‘H’ badged cars before the new lux brand launches. 420hp, RWD, all the modern tech you want, why would anyone buy this Lincoln instead?

    • 0 avatar
      NoID

      Because they drove a Lincoln long before someone paid them to. Because, they just…liked it.

      Alright, alright, alright.

    • 0 avatar
      CoreyDL

      Because it’s a Hyundai and has the same interior longevity as a Sonata?

      • 0 avatar
        JCraig

        The “because it’s a Hyundai” argument is not only growing rapidly outdated but could also easily be said about Lincoln.

        • 0 avatar
          CoreyDL

          Show me which economy hatchbacks Lincoln has produced lately, and I’ll agree.

          • 0 avatar
            JCraig

            Ford Fiesta, Ford Focus. No one is fooled into thinking Lincoln is anything other than the highest trim Fords you can get.

            Also, by your logic suddenly the Genesis will be much more attractive once it’s a separate brand from Hyundai? Never mind the fact that the Genesis already shares virtually nothing with lesser FWD Hyundais.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            Yes that’s correct, it will be a more attractive car once it is a separate brand. Listing Fords when I asked you for a Lincoln economy car shows you understand neither prestige branding or brands in general.

            Which is why you chose the Genesis.

          • 0 avatar
            JCraig

            Lincoln hasn’t had prestige in decades, and they won’t have it as long as they continue to rebadge Fords for the entire Lincoln lineup. I understand prestige well, I understand that it drives people to pay many thousands more for German names that give you far less in return. I don’t need to refer to my car by brand or get the approval of strangers to validate my purchases.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            “I don’t need to refer to my car by brand or get the approval of strangers to validate my purchases.”

            Yet the first thing you mentioned (excitedly) was how many strangers in parking lots had approached you, asking about the Hyundai.

          • 0 avatar
            TMA1

            Show me a full-size opulent luxury car that Lincoln has built in the past 30 years.

            Lincoln has never, in its history, built anything as nice as a Genesis/Equus/K900, and it’s obvious that Lincoln is afraid to even try.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            If you consider the Genesis opulent, I’m not sure we’d agree on much in life.

          • 0 avatar
            Drzhivago138

            “Show me a full-size opulent luxury car that Lincoln has built in the past 30 years.”

            Town Car up to (at least) 1998.

          • 0 avatar
            TrailerTrash

            TMA1

            Um…ok, let me try this.
            I shopped the then new Genesis way back when.
            I did choose the MKS over the Genesis easily because…

            It had RWD only and I lived in Chicago.
            It had lot poorer MPG considering it had no AWD.
            The seats, for the so called lux car it was, did not have heated and cooled front seats.
            It did not have the best leather, IMHO, for that period as DID the MKS…the Bridge of Weir from Scotland.
            It did not have the panoramic sunroof.
            It did not have the park assist.
            It did not have the adaptive headlights.

            It did not have the THX surround sound.
            It did not have the 19 CuFt trunk.

            I cannot remember more.

            But there you have it.

          • 0 avatar
            TMA1

            Maybe the Genesis isn’t opulent the way the other two are, but it’s still nicer than anything Lincoln has ever built. The Equus/K900 are in another league altogether. It may seem counterintuitive, but go ahead sit in an Equus and any Lincoln of your choice Car back-to-back. There’s really no comparison.

            As for the Town Car, the last one that took me to the airport had the same power window switches as the Taurus my mother bought in 1992. Did it actually go down in quality since ’98?

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            “Lincoln hasn’t had prestige in decades, and they won’t have it as long as they continue to rebadge Fords for the entire Lincoln lineup. ”

            there is no Lincoln for sale now which is a “re-badged Ford” (save for *maybe* the MKS.) Platform sharing is not “re-badging,” no matter how many lazy internet commenters want to claim it is. The top hats on all Lincoln vehicles are unique.

          • 0 avatar
            bd2

            No difference btwn a Ford and a Lincoln except for a badge.

            Same goes for Toyota/Lexus, Infiniti/Nissan, etc.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            Which Lincoln is the Focus?
            Which Q70L is available over at Nissan?
            What Lexus GS is a Toyota version?

            Do tell. You lost quite a lot of credibility saying the only difference was a badge.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            “No difference btwn a Ford and a Lincoln except for a badge.”

            stop lying.

        • 0 avatar

          The argument may be losing steam, but it’s still a weaker brand than Lincoln. I’m pleased when I get the Genesis as a rental, and I like the car, but when I actually think about going through with buying one, the brand still gets in the way.

          • 0 avatar
            ponchoman49

            Very slow sales indicate that many others feel the same way.

          • 0 avatar
            CarnotCycle

            Ironically, the most famous Korean of his time, Dear Leader Kim Jong-il, was carted to his eternal sleep in a Lincoln.

          • 0 avatar
            bd2

            @poncho

            Except, the Genesis outsold everything but the E Class and 5 Series last year.

            Same result thus far this year as well (basically, doubled GS sales in the US, nevermind Q70 sales) last month.

        • 0 avatar
          thornmark

          I thought the sine qua non of a proper luxury flagship was that it had to have a V8 no matter how robust a substitute turbo V6 was.

          And, excepting Audi, it had be rear drive based. Audi had honed its front drive based all wheel drive to an unrivaled degree.

          So the above doesn’t apply to Lincoln? Right.

          I agree the new Lincoln is just another premium Ford with “meh” styling that will share the fate of their previous other half-baked efforts.

          I’d put the Hyundai Genesis above the Ford Continental.

          • 0 avatar
            bd2

            Also, big difference between a longitudinal FWD set-up and a transverse FWD set-up and Audi doesn’t offer the FWD versions of the A7 and A8 in the States (at least not unless one does a special order).

            And regardless, Audi still lags significantly behind MB and BMW when it comes to luxury sedan sales at the higher end in the US.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      This is also WAY sexier than a Genesis.

      • 0 avatar
        JCraig

        Agree to disagree on that one. The concept Continental – yes. The production version – no way.

      • 0 avatar
        TMA1

        This looks like the Lincoln version of the Ford 500, with a Jaguar/CLA250 grille tacked on. What’s sexy about this?

        Seriously, it looks like Ford drew this up 15 years ago, but decided the Mercury version of the 500 would carry the luxury torch for FMC.

    • 0 avatar
      Kyree S. Williams

      I’m a big fan of Hyundai, and the Genesis itself. But you have to admit, it’s a fairly middling luxury car. It does everything right and it’s RWD with a N/A V8 to boot, but there’s still a sense of occasion that it lacks. I think this Continental, on the other hand, has that important element and is a bargain in a different kind of way. No doubt, the Continental is at least a better luxury sedan than the ill-fated MKS.

      • 0 avatar
        JCraig

        Not sure how you’d call it middling? What car has the sense of occasion that you claim the Genesis lacks? Certainly not this big FWD Ford that they’ve stuck a Lincoln badge on. The Genesis is a fantastic luxury car, if you don’t want to take my word for it read any of the reviews, especially for the 5.0 model. I’ve never had a car that turned as many heads or prompted so many strangers to walk up and ask about it.

        • 0 avatar
          CoreyDL

          Ah, you’re a Genesis owner. This explains the ridiculous bias and bumhurtz.

          • 0 avatar
            JCraig

            Pointing out that you get a V8 and RWD for less than this Ford is not bias or bumhurtz. It’s a basic observation that any enthusiast would presumably prefer those attributes over a FWD V6.

            Edit: When they revealed the concept Continental I really wanted it to succeed. I love all cars and the one I have now checked all my boxes. Instead of showing that Ford was ready to invest in making Lincoln great again (like GM has with Caddy) they fooled us and are making another Ford.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            Again, luxury is not about “more for less,” it’s about “more for more.”

            The sort of person who shows the waiter a coupon before ordering their food does not understand this.

          • 0 avatar
            Kyree S. Williams

            Since you mention the RWD Cadillacs, note that they aren’t doing well. And I don’t think CUE has scared off *that* many people. A RWD car is not necessarily a successful one.

            I like Cadillac, but Lincoln’s plan of offering quite luxury for not a whole lot of money might be a better long term plan than Cadillac’s MO of trying to chase the Germans.

          • 0 avatar
            JCraig

            We’re comparing two models that lack brand prestige, so yes this is a more for less point. You’re getting more luxury from Hyundai, which is pathetic considering Ford’s history and resources. The Genesis was made from the ground up to be a luxury car while Lincolns are doing their best on platforms engineered to a much smaller price point.

          • 0 avatar
            Kyree S. Williams

            “The Genesis was made from the ground up to be a luxury car while Lincolns are doing their best on platforms engineered to a much smaller price point.”

            Ah, but that’s not necessarily true, either. Hyundai may well have been planning to introduce a sub-30K coupe on the same platform as the Genesis sedan *just like they did with the last one.*

            The truth is, you refuse to regard the Continental—which I’m going to go out on a limb and say you haven’t yet driven—in anything near the same league as the Genesis just because of its platform. And Corey and I are calling you out on it. I could see your point of view if it were on a Toyota Yaris platform or something, but CD4 is well-engineered and has thus far proven to provide class-leading experiences in just about every application for which it’s been used.

          • 0 avatar
            SC5door

            “Ah, but that’s not necessarily true, either. Hyundai may well have been planning to introduce a sub-30K coupe on the same platform as the Genesis sedan *just like they did with the last one.*”

            What is this based on, the Vision G Coupe? I wouldn’t hold my breath for being another current model Genesis Coupe.

        • 0 avatar
          Kyree S. Williams

          Yeah, I’ve driven it. I borrowed one for two days, actually, in 5.0-liter Ultimate trim.

          I think the Lincoln has the hardware and design to succeed, even without a RWD platform. If it falls flat on its face, it will be because it was priced too high and there wasn’t enough brand-equity in the Lincoln badge to support it…which is a possible scenario.

          I guess we can agree to disagree.

          • 0 avatar
            bd2

            Hyundai planning to introduce a RWD coupe, but it’s going to be a larger luxury GT coupe.

            The “Genesis” coupe will stay with the Hyundai brand and it remains to be seen if it gets a next gen model).

          • 0 avatar
            bd2

            The RWD Cadillacs aren’t selling as well (and for that matter, neither the Lexus GS or the Infiniti Q70) b/c Cadillac got the packaging/sizing all wrong.

            Nonetheless, MKZ (a FWD midsize) is priced alongside the ATS (a RWD compact) and the Conti (a FWD full-size) is priced alongside the CTS (a RWD midsize).

        • 0 avatar
          burgersandbeer

          5 series, E class, XF all have a sense of occasion that the Genesis lacks.

          A6, Q70, and GS probably have it beat in that department as well.

          In other words, almost every competitor.

          • 0 avatar
            JCraig

            To get the Germans you list with anything more than 4 cylinders you’ll be paying substantially more. The clack of a 4 banger brings anything but a sense of occasion.

            There is nothing special about an Infiniti (or Acura).

          • 0 avatar
            bd2

            What the heck is “sense of occasion”?

            Is it sheetmetal that tugs at the heart?

            Can’t say that about the A6, Q70, GS, etc. – or for that matter, the E Class or 5 Series.

            As a class, the whole segment is pretty boring.

          • 0 avatar
            bd2

            C’mon, now – they all are pretty bland (esp. the E Class, A6, GS and Q70).

        • 0 avatar
          old5.0

          How many heads does your Genesis turn, would you say? More or less than a new Tundra?

          • 0 avatar
            bd2

            People who actually have owned another luxury sedan and are now in a Genesis have stated that they have gotten more attention in the Genesis (just saying).

        • 0 avatar
          JohnTaurus_3.0_AX4N

          So, what exact Ford is the Conti a rebadge of? Taurus? No. Fusion? No. Its platform is loosly based on the excellent Fusion, but its far larger and has unique engines. The MKZ is closer to Fusion, and the now-dead MKS was based on the Taurus, which in turn was based on the Five Hundred.
          Get your facts figured out before you start spouting off with nonsense.

          Its better to be thought of as an idiot, than to go off about something you clearly know nothing about, thereby removing all doubt.

        • 0 avatar
          Frylock350

          @JCraig,

          RWD and a V8 do not a luxury car make. Your blessed Genesis is dynamically inferior to a Dodge Charger V8. The difference in interior materials and build quality is a rounding error. I’ve not sat in a Continental and as such cannot pass judgement on it. Is the Chevy SS a luxury car too? For the price of either of these I can have a RWD V8 Tahoe. Is that a luxury car?

          The sense of occasion a Genesis lacks is that it looks generic as all hell. It doesn’t stand out in any way. This isn’t even something unique to luxury cars; you see a Camaro and you instantly know what it is.

          This is hardly a Lincoln Taurus either. Every piece of sheetmetal is unique. The engines are unique. The interior is unique. Platform sharing and rebadging are NOT the same. Its look is more distinct than a Genesis as well.

          • 0 avatar
            bd2

            Mercedes sedans aren’t exactly known for being dynamic drivers and even the AMG versions are known for being more like “muscle cars” (prodigious amount of power).

            Also, luxury sedans are not supposed to look like something that came out of a (hack) Michael Bay film.

      • 0 avatar
        TrailerTrash

        But Kyree…let’s be fair.
        The MKS dates way back to 2008. I purchased mine in Nov and it was by far a better deal then than the Genesis, which has been updated since yet the MKS has not.

        And then in RWD it was a loser for my Chicago winters.

        • 0 avatar
          JimZ

          The problem with the MKS is that it’s barely more than a Taurus with better leather. The Continental is at least trying to stand out.

        • 0 avatar
          SC5door

          And the Genesis you drove was not the one that is out currently either. You can’t make an excuse for the current model MKS (which has seen a refresh) and then compare your shopping experience back in 2008.

        • 0 avatar
          Kyree S. Williams

          The Genesis was facelifted in 2012, but was redesigned in 2015.

          The MKS did receive an extensive facelift for 2013, bringing new front and rear fascias, and a completely new interior with Ford’s then-latest electronics suite. So you could call that an update.

          The MKS with EcoBoost does drive well and, in the low-20K range, is good value for the money, but it’s a non-starter for me because I literally can’t see out of it when I’m driving one. Ditto for the Taurus. And it’s not something inherent to the platform, either. The previous Taurus / Five-Hundred and Taurus X / Freestyle were on the same platform, and they had excellent visibility.

          • 0 avatar
            ponchoman49

            The current Taurus and MKS are terrible for side and rear visibility and have poor front seat space utilization for there relative exterior size. The current Genesis is much roomier and better laid out interior wise but it seems like every one I see has an all black interior which makes it look very drab inside!

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      Two reasons:

      1) Because Hyundai still can’t get interior materials right, especially at high price points.

      2) Because it says “Hyundai” on it and that really does not impress clients (Lincoln isn’t perfect in this respect either, but at least it’s a luxury brand).

      • 0 avatar
        CoreyDL

        y u say dis hyundai badge no matter all better than lincoln 4 less $

      • 0 avatar
        bd2

        Nothing wrong with the interior of the G2 Genesis (aside from thongs like the control nob and door release) and esp. with the G90.

        But the interiors of the G1 Genesis and Equus were underwhelming (but at the same time, the G1 Genesis started at around $32k).

        • 0 avatar
          dal20402

          “Nothing wrong with the interior… except for the things that are wrong with it.”

          In a class where you’re competing head-on against the new E-Class, or even against CPO Lexus LSes, that’s not good enough.

          • 0 avatar
            bd2

            Um, every car has things wrong it with.

            For example, the GS has some plasticky bits on the center stack.

            Heck, the old Maserati Quattro had way too many things from the Chrysler parts bin.

            None of the luxury compacts had a real luxury-grade interior until the current C Class.

            And it wasn’t that long ago when the original Infiniti G and the BMW X3 had embarrassingly chinzy interiors.

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      I’d *probably* go for a Genesis V8 over the Lincoln. I prefer a naturally-aspirated with RWD layout and being a current FCA owner and long-time GM customer I’m used to questionable materials and negative prestige.

      But, from looking at the Hyundai website the 5.0L isn’t even available for MY2016.

      Is the V8 even going to be available on the new car? I thought they were switching to a turbo V6.

      • 0 avatar
        SC5door

        Not sure where the disconnect is on that. Nothing mentioned on the media site that the 5.0 would be dropped, other than 5.0 models will only come as “Ultimate”.

        Possibly freeing up engine production for G90 models?

    • 0 avatar
      nickoo

      Because Hyundais become clapped out rattle traps within 5 years of rolling off the line. I’d rather take my chances with a Chrysler than a Hyandai.

      If we’re playing this game of would you rather, I’d would rather buy a used Infiniti Q50 with 20k miles at $20-25k, or a used Lexus LS.

    • 0 avatar
      bd2

      Not everyone wants RWD, the Continental’s interior is one segment up and domestic buyers tend to buy domestic (and there will be those who really like the Conti’s sheetmetal).

    • 0 avatar
      SSJeep

      I wouldn’t call the Genesis a luxury car. The Genesis is certainly a very nice sports sedan. I see the Continental competing with the Equus / K900. The Continental interior is way ahead of the Genesis, especially for rear seat passengers. And the Ford ecoboost V6 will have numbers very similar to the Genesis 5.0.

    • 0 avatar
      smartascii

      Branding is just a shorthand way of informing people of the various qualities of the product, real or imagined. The problem now is that many upper-tier automotive brands are trading on qualities that really don’t exist any longer in their cars, or are at least reserved for the upper-echelon products that shoppers without a $1,500+ monthly car budget have no hope of acquiring, even with 84-month financing plans. The fact that we’re having a Genesis vs. Continental argument when *no one* has ever even driven a Continental shows you just how easily otherwise very smart people can be separated from their money if they think a particular brand says something about them that they like. I really can’t think of a single thing that a modern 5-series offers that’s better than a 2015+ Genesis, except that badge, so I’d buy the Genesis. I mean, the same company that makes the Range Rover Autobiography also makes the Tata. The fact that Hyundai also makes the Accent is about as relevant. If Lincoln can build a superior product (on a Fusion platform or any other), I’m happy to entertain buying one, but no one here will know if they can until they drive one.

  • avatar
    VW16v

    Not a bad starting price for this new Lincoln. The design looks more expensive then any Cadillac or some pseudo luxury branded vehicles.

  • avatar
    Kyree S. Williams

    I thought the Continental was supposed to be AWD-only.

    At any rate, Lincoln’s best bet will probably be attractive lease offers. It’s going to be harder to do that than it would be for companies like BMW, Lexus and Mercedes-Benz, who enjoy strong residual values, but if the company is willing to eat some costs there, it may pay off in the long run.

    As for me, I’m quite fond of the design at this point.

    • 0 avatar
      CoreyDL

      I bet in areas with winter weather, the take rate on the FWD version is near zero.

      • 0 avatar
        TrailerTrash

        You might have to get the AWD if you opt for the impressive twin turbo.
        Ford seems to limit this engine to only AWD.
        At least with the 3.5 with what seems to have an unlmted ability to increase its power judging from its use in the MKS, SHO F150 all the way to the race car Ford GT.

        • 0 avatar
          bball40dtw

          They might make it available in FWD. The 2017 MKZ has a FWD 3.0TT option. I have no idea why anyone wants 400+ horsepower going to the from wheels.

          • 0 avatar
            burgersandbeer

            I have no idea why anyone wants even half of that horsepower at the front wheels. It’s OK for a hot hatches where torque steer and traction issues can be part of the charm, and an acceptable compromise in V6 family sedans where cost is an obvious consideration. I don’t think it is OK for a luxury car starting at $45k.

          • 0 avatar
            TrailerTrash

            the reason would be the weight.
            I agree if the car is light but if you are going to haul around a lot of luxury…you don’t wanna feel bogged down in mud after every stop.
            Plus…there is the power just there on demand. If you are cruisin and you need t pass…you don’t want any argument from your power base…just the response of any good servant.
            But then again…this is the reason everybody wants big V8 power in their luxury liners.
            Its not that they wanna hoon around the corners doin donuts.
            They lust for the thrust. I want to feel the shove into the seat when it is called for.

      • 0 avatar
        Jagboi

        In my part of the world sales of premium cars that are not AWD is near zero. All of the Audi/MB/BMW/Jag are AWD. If Lincoln had come out with this in RWD it would be a guarantee they would sell none.

        Even in trucks if you want an F150/250/350 that isn’t 4X4 you have to do a factory order. Last time I checked Ford’s inventory in the province there wasn’t a single RWD truck on a dealers lot.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      I agree on the design…I don’t know if you’ve seen it in person, but it looks even better than it does in pictures.

      No way I’d shell out $45,000 for a FWD version with the 3.7, though. I’d have to think one with the 3.5 EB and AWD would be mid-$50,000s.

      • 0 avatar
        Kyree S. Williams

        There’s going to be a new 3.0-liter twin-turbo V6 + AWD version with about 400 HP and the same rear torque-vectoring differential that the Focus RS uses (this powertrain can also be seen on the refreshed 2017 MKZ). That’s probably the one to go for. You won’t even care that it’s transverse-engined, if it drives well.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      Why bother to waste money putting AWD hardware on 3.7 cars for the south?

      Corey’s right — no FWD car will ever get shipped to a northern dealer.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        If I was buying, there would be one. We don’t “need” AWD here but the lemmings demand it.

      • 0 avatar
        SC5door

        Fleet buyers.

        FWD will be big in the Chicago Livery market—it’s all I see running around is FWD MKS models.

      • 0 avatar
        ponchoman49

        There are plenty of FWD Cadillac XTS’s around my Northern neck of the woods in Upstate, NY. Not everybody wants to pay 5-10K extra for loaded up AWD vehicles, get worse MPG and have those huge oversize 20″ tires to deal with so I think you will see FWD Continentals here too being sold.

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    So…”rides on a FWD chassis with a 3.7 engine.”

    Translation: an evolved (but admittedly far sexier) Taurus/MKS.

    We’ll see how this works out. My prediction is that it lays waste to the XTS, and the more basic versions will steal some sales from high end versions of the LaCrosse and ES350 based on looks.

    Lincolns are still dressed-up Fords, so the real competition here is the lower priced Lexus models and Buick.

    • 0 avatar
      319583076

      FWD flagship hasn’t worked out for anyone AFAIK. I predict middling sales, flagging marketing support, and finally the ignominy of admitting the failure and blowing out the rotting inventory.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        I think it’ll actually be successful, in its’ own bracket. But I can’t see it being some kind of breakout hit.

        But given that this thing is basically a Taurus in disguise, and the powertrain appears to be a carryover, I’m thinking the margins for Ford will be quite nice.

        • 0 avatar
          Kyree S. Williams

          If it’s a Taurus, it’s the CD4-based, Chinese-market Taurus. Call it a lengthened Fusion or MKZ, if you like. The D3 / D4 platform that the current Taurus and MKS are on will soon die off (although it has been very profitable on the Explorer, for which people pay through the nose).

          http://blog-admin.cddev.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/2016-Ford-Taurus-Chinese-spec-101.jpg

          The 3.7-liter V6 is a carryover powertrain, but there will also be a new 3.0-liter twin-turbo EcoBoost with AWD, making 400 horsepower and 400 ft-lbs of torque.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Interesting.

            So, it’s a glorified Fusion, versus a Taurus. A step up! But I’ll stick with my original “Lincolns are glorified Fords” argument anyway.

          • 0 avatar
            tonycd

            FWD for $45k starting price doesn’t flip my flapjacks. To me, this is the last-gen LaCrosse launch with about 12% more badge credibility. Its real rival is the Lexus ES. It’s more visually compelling inside and out, and it probably rides and handles considerably better. But the lack of both badge cachet and proven reliability means that even among those who don’t care that it can’t carve corners with the Germans, it will lose out to the Lexus as an inferior motorized wheelchair.

          • 0 avatar
            tresmonos

            It’s a highly modified CD6 chassis from what I’ve been told. I’ve also heard that the prototypes had incredible interiors.

      • 0 avatar
        bills79jeep

        The Audi A8 is FWD/AWD. RWD may appeal to the M/AMG/F Sport/ crowd, but the average luxo barge buyer could care less. For a normal driver in snow, FWD is going to serve them far better than RWD*. If anything, I’d say AWD holds more marketing cache these days.

        *cue TTAC diatribe on how someone in a E30 drove by all the 4×4’s in the ditch this past winter

        • 0 avatar
          jkross22

          “could care less” means that you do care…. at least a little.

          Google “Word Crimes video”

          • 0 avatar
            bills79jeep

            I’d say they both mean the same thing. It’s a widely accepted idiom.

          • 0 avatar
            Scoutdude

            Sorry Bill but “could care less” is not generally accepted, it is just lazy people who couldn’t be bothered with the n’t.

        • 0 avatar
          burgersandbeer

          Considering that in 2015 the 7 series had the A8 doubled up and Mercedes sold 4x as many copies of the S-Class, it seems that it does matter.

        • 0 avatar
          bd2

          There’s a difference between a FWD longitudinal and a FWD tranverse layout and there’s a reason why Audi doesn’t off the A7 and A8 in the US in FWD form.

          But yes, the mass-market luxury buyer won’t care so much about wheel drives the car as things like passenger space and interior appointment.

          This starts at XTS territory which is on the mark.

          Think Ford would be very happy if the Conti sells close to what the XTS is selling (23-24k; sold 32.5k in its 1st year before the CTS joined the Cadillac lineup).

    • 0 avatar
      NoID

      My understanding is that the platform is actually shared with the MKZ, not the Taurus/MKS.

      With the Cadillac XTS (also a FWD-based car with an AWD option) going the way of the dinosaur the new Conti may do well indeed.

      • 0 avatar
        Kyree S. Williams

        Yes, it’s on a longer-wheelbase version of the CD4 platform, which underpins the Fusion, MKZ, Edge, MKX, and Chinese-market Taurus, among other things.

    • 0 avatar
      JCraig

      Agreed, Ford wowed us all with the concept then revealed yet another loaded Ford. The interior is perhaps the biggest disappointment. I’ll be very surprised if this is a huge success. Definitely looks to be a Buick competitor at best.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        The same interior that looks about $20,000 more expensive than the one in the Genesis you keep talking up?

        • 0 avatar
          SC5door

          I’d fully expect it to be. Ford/Lincoln has had quite amount of time to get it right.

        • 0 avatar
          bd2

          More like $2-3k more expensive and the Conti is a flagship sedan which price-wise competes in the midsize class (due to its tranverse FWD underpinnings).

          The interior of the G90 is better.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            Haven’t seen a G90 yet, but having sat in an Equus I emphatically disagree. It looks the part (mostly) but feels like same old Hyundai.

          • 0 avatar
            bd2

            So let’s compare the new Conti to the old Equus and not the MKS to the Equus (where the MKS would lose out) and the Conti to the G90.

            Yeah, that sounds right…

      • 0 avatar
        bball40dtw

        It always was going to be a much nicer Ford. Lincolns have been that since the late 50s. They never said it was going to be anything else.

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        What? The “concept” was a thinly-veiled production intent car with different colors and trim finishes.

        • 0 avatar
          bball40dtw

          He must be referring to a completely different Continental Concept that no one else has seen.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            I just love the people who say that Lincoln should be doing what Cadillac is doing, while completely glossing over Cadillac’s struggle.

            Cadillac is proof that Internet Car People won’t buy what they say they’ll buy.

          • 0 avatar
            derekson

            “I just love the people who say that Lincoln should be doing what Cadillac is doing, while completely glossing over Cadillac’s struggle.”

            The fact is that both brands are starting from a spot where they’re viewed as cars for old people and hearses and livery cars. Even if one or the other came out with a perfect product it would take some 15-20 years to actually gain ground in the market as a legitimate competitor for Merc/BMW/Audi/Lexus. Audi took about a decade to become a real luxury marque after bringing competitive product, and they were starting from a much less established reputation even if the rep was also problematic.

            Cadillac’s products aren’t perfect, but they’re good enough that more people would buy them with a different badge on the hood or if they actually went to the dealer and test drove one. The problem is the reputation of the badge as a car for old people and a floppy, floaty boat. This keeps buyers from even considering the products regardless of their quality.

            Lincoln faces the same issue, but is behind Cadillac by ~5-10 years in making products good enough to start redefining the impression of the brand.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            “Cadillac’s products aren’t perfect, but they’re good enough that more people would buy them with a different badge on the hood or if they actually went to the dealer and test drove one.”

            so basically you’re saying the same thing I am. Enthusiasts say Cadillac should be a better BMW, but they’re not selling because those same enthusiasts won’t buy a Cadillac over a BMW.

            You are exactly why automakers don’t listen to enthusiasts.

  • avatar
    Steve_S

    Should be great values in 2-3 years just like the Genesis and Cadenza are now.

  • avatar
    S2k Chris

    Buddy recently picked up a low-miles Ecoboost MKS for low $20s. Which is pretty sweet. And exactly what this thing will be worth in a year or two.

    • 0 avatar
      tonycd

      Personally, I think the Taurus and MKS drive nicely, though I seem to be alone in that opinion. I just think it’s unforgivably cramped for tall drivers and too hard to park or see out of. And, I don’t really trust Ford reliability with my own money either, although it’s admittedly not as apocalyptically bad as Sergio’s.

      • 0 avatar
        brn

        You’re not alone on drive-ability. The Taurus gets generally high marks in that area. I agree about visibility.

        The interior is no where near as cramped as people say it is. It’s not a prime example of interior efficiency, but it’s not bad. Certainly roomier than it’s predecessor or the Fusion. Part of the issue with this (and visibility) is that the seats are designed to be more upright, like an SUV. Position them as intended, and it’s much nicer.

        As to reliability, the 3.5 has an excellent track record. The tranny is good too. Well, as long as you don’t put 365hp in front of it. The tranny is designed for 300 hp and 280 ft/lb (essentially the 3.7 or smaller). The SHO is too much engine for the transmission. If Ford is putting a 400hp motor in the Lincoln, I hope they’ve worked that out.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    The competition in the $45-72k range is stiff; this car will need to impress.

  • avatar
    Nick 2012

    I’m excited to see if I can pick up a 3.0TT version for MKS prices in a few years.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    Cadillac lovers and beloved haterz – I’m screwing around on the GM Supplier Discount website and apparently as of now there is no V6 option being offered on the CT6. I’m not saying they dropped it, I’m just saying apparently that pig launches with 2.0T so the Conti already has it beat.

    • 0 avatar
      Nick 2012

      This is so, so sad. I’m now going to reread Jack’s article on the ATS and cry in a corner.

      https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/05/how-gm-could-save-the-cadillac-ats-from-its-otherwise-inevitable-fate-of-complete-marketplace-failure/

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      Negative, 28, I just did a search of CT6s in this area on the company’s website and all of ’em are the 3.6 or 3.0 twin turbo V6. I seem to remember you live around Pittsburgh so I searched there too, and not a four-banger to be found.

      I have a feeling they aren’t going to sell many of the four-bangers.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Screen shot it, or it didn’t happen.

        http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=fvy4gj&s=9

        Evidently GM is shafting its supplier discount customers then.

        Additional: You can’t see it in the screen shot but they are giving about 12K for a new ELR as well.

        2016 Cadillac ELR

        Style: 2dr Car, Front Wheel Drive

        Trim: 2dr Cpe

        MSRP as Configured

        $65,995.00

        GM Supplier Discount Price

        $63,270.00

        Purchase Dealer Cash

        -$10,000.00

        You Pay
        $53,270.00

        • 0 avatar
          NoID

          That’s not surprising. I work directly for FCA and I can’t get a discount on the very SRT products I help bring to market. But then again, I can’t afford any of them anyways so its a moot point.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I say shame on them. GM will even give me 4K off on a new Corvette Convertible (which truly surprises me because Corvette is sacrosanct) but FCA won’t give its actual employees a discount on SRT?

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            They’ll give them two Jeep Patriots for $32K though.

            So, they got that going for them, which is nice.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            They should throw in a third for free to employees.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            Maybe if they ask nicely?

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Maybe the new channel stuffing trend can be to give an additional poor selling model to employees with their purchase?

          • 0 avatar
            NoID

            Minor course correction, I do get a corporate discount on the Viper.

            I’m sure individual dealers would offer employee pricing if they really wanted to move a car, but I’ve never verified that by making an attempt (again, I’m not in the market for various reasons.) All I know is that I can’t use our corporate system to option out an SRT model and slap a printout with guaranteed pricing down on any salesman’s desk.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            @NoID

            That’s unacceptable to me, FCA needs to try harder for its employees.

          • 0 avatar
            NoID

            It’s a simple matter of supply versus demand. SRT products are essentially at a fixed maximum volume, and FCA / the dealer network knows that they can sell everything without relying on incentives. The exception to this being the Viper, which (surprise!) we get the corporate discount on.

            FCA is doing well, but it’s still the smallest and most cash-strapped of the Big 3. They offer a very competitive corporate lease deal on most of their products that I may take advantage of in the near future if I can offload my Mazda5 for close to what I owe on it, and their bonus package is competitive in the market. Not to mention I work for freaking SRT, which has its fringe benefits. All in all, I’m happy.

        • 0 avatar
          VoGo

          The Feds give you another $7.500 for the ELR, so effectively, you pay $46K, which is $20K off list.

          Still too high.

    • 0 avatar
      Behind The Times

      Your comment prompted me to check the Cadillac Canada site to price a CT6 – the topline version here costs $99k CAD – ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch. An LS 460 is $9k cheaper.

  • avatar
    PeriSoft

    I love how 72k for a big German barge gets you vinyl seats and no backup camera and that’s fine, but 72k for an every-option-checked American barge is “staggering”.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      But transverse engine blah blah blah!!!

      • 0 avatar
        NoID

        Yes, this. I dare say that if we’re speaking of AWD that 90% of luxury owners couldn’t tell you if the system in their car uses a longitudinal powertrain with a transfer case or transverse mounted engine with a power transfer unit, etc. So long as AWD take rates are going up (they are) and fuel economy standards are driving weight reduction (they are), I think it’s certainly sensible to consider the ‘FWD’ layout for luxury cars in the volume segments.

        Also, for what its worth, I’m fairly certain that the Continental will feature an AWD system not dissimilar to that found on the Focus RS. Which means it could very well be tuned to feature some impressive dynamics.

        The purists will weep and gnash their teeth, but the masses will continue to buy on brand. And that’s the rub for Lincoln, they don’t have one to speak of.

        • 0 avatar
          bd2

          Granted, many mainstream luxury buyers probably don’t know which wheels power the car, but there’s a reason why tranverse FWD luxury sedans are priced a whole segment DOWN (and even Audis with their longitudinal set-up are priced below the RWD offerings from MB and BMW).

          If the Conti were priced closer to the flagship price-range rather than the midsize, it would flop.

          Priced as it is, has a good change to sell about as well as the XTS has for Cadillac.

    • 0 avatar
      VW16v

      The Anti-American undertones are not so secret on this site. Totally ok for a 4cylinder BMW or poorly rated Infiniti at $45-50k. But, a loaded 400hp Lincoln is out of control. Hilarious.

      • 0 avatar
        whynot

        Ironically this site is one of the most pro-Lincoln/ anti-Cadillac ones out there.

        It should be noted that the “staggering” was a direct quote from The Ignition Blog and not Mark.

      • 0 avatar
        jkross22

        I recall a lot of shade being thrown at BMW specifically for their 4 cylinder 3 series strippers being sold in the mid 30’s. No options…. 100% poverty spec but for $34k.

        Power of brand.

      • 0 avatar
        TMA1

        But a loaded 400hp Lincoln can’t be had for $45-50K. A loaded 400hp Genesis can be had at that price, but that’s out of control.

        • 0 avatar
          nickoo

          Genesis has a v8 with RWD and more gears in the transmission at that price point. Also, suspension tuned by Lotus…

          Will it be a clapped out rattle trap in 5 years? Did I really need to ask that question? What does that have to do with Lincoln? Stay tuned to find out.

          • 0 avatar
            TMA1

            5 years? Who cares about 5 years from now, luxury cars are supposed to be leased for 3 years. After 5 years, it’s the CPO buyer’s problem.

            Now, I’m going to go get my hands on the true luxury of a 5-year old Zephyr/MKZ. Because that’s pure class.

    • 0 avatar
      319583076

      My guess is that driving a 72k Mercedes back-to-back with a 72k Lincoln would handily reveal why the 72k every-option-checked American barge is “staggering”. IOW, The Mercedes will drive and ride like a proper car and the Lincoln will drive and ride like the FWD volume mid-sized car upon which it’s based.

      As someone said previously, luxury isn’t more for less it’s more for more. Why pay 72k for a loaded Ford when you could be driving the Mercedes?

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        We’ll see. The loaded Conti’s AWD system alone will keep it from driving like any Fusion except maybe the Fusion Sport. For the driving experience, a lot will depend on how right Lincoln can get the suspension tuning.

        72k is a challenging price point, though, because by that point you can get an E-class with a V8 and the basic options. At 60k the mostly loaded Conti will look a lot better competing against less powerful versions of the Germans.

        • 0 avatar
          319583076

          You can put $20 worth of artisanal Italian pepperoni on a $5 frozen cheese pizza and tell yourself it’s equivalent to the $25 pie made by hand with fresh ingredients, but no amount of fancy pepperoni can make that frozen pizza taste the same.

          Starting with the Fusion platform is the fundamental constraint and the Fusion platform simply cannot compete with the E-Class platform.

          • 0 avatar
            derekson

            “Starting with the Fusion platform is the fundamental constraint and the Fusion platform simply cannot compete with the E-Class platform.”

            Yup. People may not know that they don’t like the driving feel of a car because of its transverse drivetrain layout, but it just feels different and even people who don’t care about driving dynamics can feel that difference even if they can’t articulate it.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            I call BS on the notion that the target Lincoln customer can tell engine layout from driving feel.

            People who say “it’s based on a lowly Ford, so it could never compete with an Audi” – have you driven an AWD Fusion 2.0T? It’s a damned nice ride in my book.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            You’re not saying what, exactly, about the Fusion platform feels different. It’s much easier to say, concretely, why frozen cheese pizza tastes bad.

            It’s not unibody flex; the Fusion is very stiff.

            Is it the suspension tuning? That can be fixed without changing the platform. And I think it’s the most important aspect of getting a car like this right.

            Is it the steering? Ditto.

            Is it the torque steer and delay in getting the rear wheels to help shove on hard acceleration? The Conti’s AWD system will fix both of those things.

            Is it the weight distribution? I call BS. That doesn’t affect the way the car feels until you’re doing things that VERY few buyers in this class will ever do.

            The Acura RLX (and previously RL) SH-AWD is an example of a car in this class that drives very well notwithstanding a transverse platform. The Audi A6 has a longitudinal engine, but isn’t a traditional RWD platform either. Both drive fine, and the RL’s sales malaise does not stem from the way it drives.

          • 0 avatar
            sportyaccordy

            If drive wheels mattered at all in the luxury market the Lexus ES wouldn’t outsell the Jaguar BRAND 5x over. Come on guys, let’s do better than this, and stop projecting our personal preferences as proven market demands like teenagers. It really detracts from the discussion. Lexus ES/RX, Porsche Macan, Audi, Bentley… there are countless examples of successful FWD or FWD based luxury cars. It’s a non issue. Hell, most of the RWD luxury cars are boring, isolated barges. The Audi A6 beat BMW & MB’s midsize offerings in VARIOUS comparos. This myth needs to die a fiery death.

          • 0 avatar
            319583076

            The Mercedes distributes the weight of the engine, transmission, differential, and driveshafts over the length of the wheelbase. The Lincoln saddles all of this weight over the front axle, with a significant portion in front of the front axle.

            The distributed weight of the longitudinal engine RWD layout reduces unwanted body movement and facilitates controlling movement under acceleration (in the scientific sense – speeding up, slowing down, changing direction). The concentrated weight of the transverse FWD platform increases unwanted body movement and complicates controlling movement under acceleration.

            That’s what makes the pizza taste bad. Vehicle dynamics is just applied physics and the reason a Mercedes will ride better than this Lincoln is that the Mercedes has inherent physical advantages that the Lincoln does not. Furthermore, the Lincoln cannot overcome them – even with a computer-controlled AWD system. F = m * a doesn’t change.

            If you don’t think the weight distribution matters, ask vintage 911 drivers about it. Oh, that’s right, you can’t because they died going off a road due to lift-off oversteer. A FWD is similar to the vintage 911 – the engine is outside of the wheelbase. The FWD car won’t kill you, but it handles differently under acceleration in *every* scenario.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            319, no normal buyer in this class can detect the results of this type of difference in weight distribution, because it only really begins to matter at the edge of the performance envelope. Under normal driving conditions it’s perfectly possible to damp and control a heavy front end adequately — just drive any Honda ever built. The weight distribution of an AWD Conti will be no different from that of an Audi A6, one of the best sellers (and perennial comparison test winners) in this class.

            If this car doesn’t drive as well as an E-Class (or A6) in the sort of use it’s designed for, it won’t be because of its weight distribution, it will be because Ford doesn’t get the suspension setup right. It’s entirely possible that will happen, but it has nothing to do with the car’s platform or commonality with volume Fords.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            the only people who obsess about the underlying platform are people who post here and aren’t planning on buying the car anyway.

          • 0 avatar
            319583076

            I bought a C-Class 5 months ago in large part due to the way it drives and handles which is attributable to the drivetrain layout and platform architecture.

          • 0 avatar
            smartascii

            I dunno. I get E350s as service loaners occasionally, and they’re… not that great. The feeling of solidity and superiority that defined the pre-2003 ones is a shadow of its former self, the interior and tech is below class standards, and the lease-special, vinyl-upholstered variety that they keep around as loaners don’t really have very many features. I take it as a car that is very much designed to be seen in, rather than one that’s designed to be enjoyed. An A6 is really a much better product, so I’m optimistic that Lincoln *can* make a satisfying car. Who knows if they will…

          • 0 avatar
            bd2

            @sportyaccord

            And there’s a reason why the ES (despite being a full-size FWD sedan) is priced like a luxury compact.

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        can you provide a definition of “proper car” which isn’t “what I think is important?”

        • 0 avatar
          319583076

          Proper (luxury) car (handling) = “It’s about the car feeling under control at all times and just buttoned down at any speed and on any surface. And the inherent balance you feel in a car with a longitudinal layout helps with that feel, I would say.” Quoted from derekson below.

          This isn’t subjective, by the way, and it’s certainly not my own irrational opinion as you imply. But thanks for bringing your attitude, look out for incoming birds.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            You are not feeling the “inherent balance in a longitudinal layout” unless you are near or exceeding the limit of grip. You are responding to something else. Most likely, that is good damping, well-chosen spring rates, and effective suspension geometry. I don’t doubt that your C-Class feels good, and probably better than any of the transverse-based entries in the class. That’s not because of the layout (unless you are talking about feel in at-the-limit driving); it’s because Mercedes is quite good at ride/handling balance when it tries to be.

            The best car I’ve ever owned for ride/handling balance in everyday usage (as opposed to at-the-limit driving) was FWD. Not even FWD-based AWD, just FWD. Its weight distribution was 60/40. But it felt better buttoned down and more comfortable at once than my slightly-too-floaty Lexus LS, better than my family’s too-firm E28, and even better when not pushing hard than my G8 GXP. The car: a 2004 Acura TSX.

          • 0 avatar
            319583076

            What was your most recent physics course?

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            I don’t even remember, but it sure didn’t teach me that the same motion (remember, we’re well below the limit of grip) will somehow magically feel different because slightly more of the total force giving rise to the motion is being transmitted through the front tires than the back ones.

          • 0 avatar
            319583076

            I thought so. Thanks.

          • 0 avatar
            nickoo

            One of my degrees is in physics, 319 is right, cars should actually be slightly rear weight biased for optimal handling under braking now that most cars have 4 wd disc brakes. The rear brakes should be doing the majority of the braking. It’s a lot safer than the antiquated FWD heavy majority front braking setup we have now, where if you lock up your front wheels you lose complete steering control.

            Additionally, you can’t properly correct for the moments of pitch, yaw, or even roll on a front heavy car with a suspension. It’s just basic physics. That’s why a 50/50 or 45/55 F/R weight setup is superior.

  • avatar
    01 Deville

    Price wise this competes with an ES. Financially makes no sense to buy it over an ES especially since ES now rides on Avalon platform, and is likely to have way better reliability and resale.
    Prospective customers are likely to be surviving Lincoln TC/Cadillac DTS owners and may be some ES buyers on the younger end (still above 60 for most). Handling does not matter for this demographic and IMHO this would be a much more attractive proposition than CT6 with an evocative name and comfort focused mission. Ford execution is generally better than GM, so I think customers will love it.

    If they can offer one for about 55K with AWD and 400 HP with decent equipment, it should sell well.

    • 0 avatar
      Kyree S. Williams

      I agree with everything you said.

      The main argument against it, then, might be another potential FWD standout…the upcoming Volvo S90. And no doubt, the Volvo badge is getting some serious cachet off of that new XC90.

      • 0 avatar
        TrailerTrash

        The new V90…the argument against this car for me is the V90 promised from Volvo. The gorgeous version of the 90 designs.
        Every Time I spend a few minutes looking through the pics of this car…I feel like smoking a cigarette.
        I think I have a few under the mattress…..
        I don’t know of another car I have waited for like this.

        I only hope I can afford one…and talk my wife into a wagon.
        Wagons are the most disliked design of hers…other than the completely hated Flex.
        She spots a Flex in every parking lot and manages a grunt.

      • 0 avatar
        Johnster

        The Volvo S90 and V90 are gorgeous, but there’s still a bit of bias against larger 4-cylinder luxury cars (like we’ve seen with the 4-cylinder Cadillac CT6 and even the CTS).

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      If you are a green eyeshade-type buyer then buying ANY new luxury car is dumb, but the ES is probably the best of the bad choices. But this car, despite its FWD nose, has more style and presence in one door handle than any ES has since the dearly departed second-generation model. On the other hand the Lexus badge has more cachet than the Lincoln one for badge buyers. I don’t think the Continental and ES will be competing for the same buyers.

      • 0 avatar
        01 Deville

        Haven’t been in a new volvo but my 01 V70 2.4t is noisier, harsher riding and softer cornering than a contemporary 3 series BMW.
        Also with new Volvos you need turbo and supercharging to get any decent power off the 4 cylinder they are stuffing in every car.
        Volvos and Saabs have always been cars for people that think they know something about their cars the rest of world doesn’t.

        While Lincolns are for pragmatic geezers who like a little bit of style (sense of style is subjective) heaps of comfort, and good value. This car hits bulls eye for these requirments and if I was an ES/Lucerne/DTS/XTS buyer, I will take a very hard look at it.
        E-Class/5 series/GS/A6 buyers will probably be
        a) not be impressed by high lease rate, given likely low residuals
        b)too snobbish to consider it.

    • 0 avatar
      Chocolatedeath

      SOrry but it doesnt compete with the ES. The ES cant reach 50k even with every box checked. The MKZ is about the same size and price as the ES but I think you know this already. The Conti will be significantly wider as I have seen one in person at auto show in the same room as the Lexus display.

    • 0 avatar
      bd2

      Except, the ES has the pricing of the luxury compact segment (as well as the interior quality) whereas the Conti has the pricing of the luxury midsize segment (and reportedly, the interior quality of the flagship class – but probably more like a tweener between the midsize and flagship segments).

  • avatar
    Cactuar

    This will be a fantastic value on the used car market.

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    So priced to start at about the same as an XTS. The XTS can be optioned up to within a hairs breadth of $73,000.

    Well played Lincoln, well played. Priced like an XTS but the Continental is a flagship that will likely outshine the CT6 (loaded CT6 $88,000).

    I DRINK YOUR MILKSHAKE!

  • avatar

    For the simple fact that I wouldn’t have to step into a sad Hyundai dealership, I would choose this over a Geneis.

    • 0 avatar
      TMA1

      You could buy an Equus, and not have to visit any dealership at all.

      Anyway, I don’t see how a dinky corner of the Ford store, with carpet instead of tile, is so much better than a Hyundai store. The last Hyundai store I was in was brand new and very nice, far better than the Ford/Lincoln dealership I go to for service.

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        “You could buy an Equus, and not have to visit any dealership at all.”

        or I could take my $60,000 and spend it on something better than a f***ing Hyundai.

        • 0 avatar
          TMA1

          Like f***ing what? Mind you, you can buy a brand new Equus for just over $50K.

          Don’t give me anything that’s 2-3 years older, either, because I’ll just retort with a 2-3 old Equus.

          I want a full size luxury car, V8, RWD, and room to put my feet up in back. Let’s hear what you’ve got.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            I’d rather have my 2008 LS460 (47k miles, like-new condition) than a brand new Equus at twice the price. Better interior materials, more refined transmission, vastly more refined suspension, and it’s not a Hyundai.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Kiton vs Hugo Boss.

          • 0 avatar
            bd2

            Would rather take a G90 over an LS460 any day (not stuck with a sub-400 HP powertrain).

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I think it depends on your philosophy of use. If we’re talking leasing and cost is an issue, the Hyundai may be the better value. If we’re talking long term ownership (as I know Dal is thinking), Lex me up Scotty.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            There’s not much point in discussing various car options with bd2, as he states there’s no difference in Ford and Lincoln and is obviously sleeping with someone at Hyundai corporate.

  • avatar
    RHD

    Wikipedia indicates 400 foot pounds of torque and 400 HP with 93-octane gas. But they also give that specification for a 3.0 V6. No word on the “continental” spare tire at the rear of the trunk.
    The seats are supposedly heated, cooled and include massage capability… and are adjustable 30 ways. I can’t imagine what the 29th and 30th ways might be.

    This looks like a very smart move for Ford – plenty of power, good looks, lots of standard luxuries, and a competitive price.
    Now if there were a convertible version with a 6-speed manual transmission…

  • avatar
    Richard Chen

    Did anyone put in a preorder, or is this only going to be popular with livery fleets?

  • avatar
    Russycle

    I know it’s been said a thousand times, but why not stretch the Mustang chassis and give this a RWD V8? If Ford wants to play in this space, go big or go home.

    ” …can be priced up to a “staggering $72,000 with every option checked.” Staggering? That’s about twice what a loaded Camry will run you, which sounds about right for a Conti. If it had a RWD and a V8.

    • 0 avatar
      bball40dtw

      Ford doesn’t have any interest in stretching the Mustang. The cost to do it doesn’t make sense for a low volume sedan when they are amortizing costs on the Continental with the Fusion, MKZ, Edge, MKX, and other future vehicles. In reality, the Continental is a step in the right direction that is a stop gap until the D6 platform is ready.

    • 0 avatar
      sportyaccordy

      Because it will add a ton of cost and complexity, eat up a ton of interior space, and most importantly add zero value to the customer. Audi has been selling the FWD based A6 & A8 for 20+ years, and nobody complains. A6 often beats its RWD based competition in mag comparos. Hell, Bentley’s whole lineup is basically built around a steel A8 platform. Not sure how many other ways to say it but a RWD Continental would be a complete waste of time. The people who actually buy these cars- not random internet commenters- literally could not care less.

      • 0 avatar
        bball40dtw

        A RWD Continental will be worth it when Ford has a flexible FWD/RWD/AWD platform.

      • 0 avatar
        NoID

        Yes, the Audi 2WD version is a FWD system, but it features a longitudinal powertrain which shifts more weight to the middle of the vehicle so you lose some of the nose-heavy antics of a traditional transverse layout. But aside from that, anyone purchasing a 2WD Audi is most DEFINITELY not keenly aware of the D word that is Dynamics. They’re buying on brand, which was established by the AWD system decades ago.

        • 0 avatar
          sportyaccordy

          Audi’s AWD system puts the engine waaayyyyyy out front. They are as nose heavy as they’ve ever been. I think the A4 moved things back a little bit back, but the A6/A8 are as front heavy as ever.

          And pretty much ALL luxury buyers don’t care about dynamics. If they did, stickshift wouldn’t be dying in the luxury realm, BMW wouldn’t be seeing sales increases by going soft, Jaguar wouldn’t be completely in the doldrums sales wise, etc etc. Dynamics don’t matter to the people signing the dotted line for these cars.

          • 0 avatar
            319583076

            “Dynamics don’t matter to the people signing the dotted line for these cars.”

            False, dynamics and handling sell these cars. It’s that the dynamics and handling aren’t “enthusiast” dynamics and handling.

          • 0 avatar
            sportyaccordy

            It’s not difficult to give a nose heavy car a luxurious ride. Especially with a long wheelbase (I imagine this thing will be in the 115-120″ range- Taurus is already 113″), a curb weight in excess of 2 tons, and a complete lack of any sporting pretense whatsoever. Again, VWAG has done exactly this in a very convincing way for 20+ years. Plus you are acting like something like a Maybach or Bentley Flying Spur is some 50/50 low polar inertia dynamic ride. They are not much less nose heavy than this.

            Buyers in this market want cars that are comfortable and competent. It’s not difficult to do and I don’t think any of Lincoln’s other rides have any problems with luxury dynamics. MKC has a plush ride and it’s a front heavy short wheelbase high CoG CUV…. Continental should be fine.

        • 0 avatar
          JimZ

          I disagree, since Audi’s layout pushes the engine almost entirely forward of the front axle.

      • 0 avatar
        bd2

        And A6 and A8 sales pale in comparison to that of its RWD German competitors and there’s a reason why Audi doesn’t offer the A7 and A8 in FWD form in the US.

        Also, Audis start at a lower price (and still sell less) and we don’t ever see FWD Audi models being tested against a BMW or MB.

        • 0 avatar
          VoGo

          Audi, Mercedes and BMW are neck-and-neck in global sales. The momentum has certainly been with Audi in the past decade.

          • 0 avatar
            bd2

            Audi sells more models at the lower end (not to mention being helped by being the de facto luxury brand for Chinese bureaucrats).

            It’s like all the brouhaha when Lexus was the no.1 selling luxury brand in the US.

            Doesn’t mean as much when the bulk of Lexus sales is made up of cheaper FWD models like the RX, ES and now the NX.

            Compare GS and LS sales to the E Class and S Class.

            Not even close (the S Class, alone, outsells the GS and LS).

  • avatar
    carguy

    $50K+ is a precarious place for a FWD sedan to be – just ask an Acura dealer how the RLX is selling.

    However, the Conti still has ever chance of success. The target demographic of full size sedans value comfort, value, space and luxury and if they nail that, it could be a hit. The Lincoln Continental also enjoys a significant name and brand value advantage over anything Korean among their target audience.

    But if what they deliver is a warmed over Taurus then expect these to flood the livery and rental fleets.

    • 0 avatar
      VoGo

      The RLX doesn’t prove that a $50K FWD sedan can’t sell. It only proves that a crappy $50K FWD sedan can’t sell.

      The A6 sells just fine. I’m curious to see how the new Volvo S90 sells – I think that will be a more telling example.

      • 0 avatar
        carguy

        @VoGo: You may have just read the first line of my comment.

      • 0 avatar
        bd2

        Depends on what one means by “just fine.”

        The A6 has been selling at around 22-23k the past few years, after some down years in the 8-11k range.

        The 5 Series had been selling in the low to mid 50k range (more than double the A6 nos.).

        The E Class had been selling in the 60k range and was 200 units from hitting 70k in 2013 (more than 3x the best recent sales year for the A6 – and that’s with the A6 being cheaper).

        The Cadillac XTS has had the best recent sales year for a higher-end, FWD luxury sedan – hitting 32k in 2013.

    • 0 avatar
      VW16v

      The rlx is a mess. Very poor CR ratings are accurate on this model. I’ve yet to see non AWD rlx on the road.

  • avatar
    cgjeep

    When I read article I thought the 3.7 was going to be a twin turbo one, a slightly bored out 3.5 twin turbo. For 45k I was like bring it. That would be a big hit. But 72k to get real power, forget it. I also think the 4 door mustang is what Lincoln needs to build. If it costs too much then at least put the coyote motor in a 4dr sedan, just make it awd so it doesn’t torque steer you into the curb. The sound alone would sell them.

    • 0 avatar
      bball40dtw

      The 3.0TT actually has more HP and torque than the current 3.5TT.

      $45K will get you an AWD 3.0TT MKZ. Actually, $42K will do it.

      Ford can’t put the Coyote in any of it’s sedans because they are all transverse FWD and won’t fit the Merlin Engine sized Coyote.

      • 0 avatar
        cgjeep

        I only see 3.7 and 2.0 turbo available with MXZ. If I going to buy a Lincoln I want something I can’t get at Ford cheaper. The current MKS has the 3.5TT listed.

        I did’nt know the 3.0TT had more power. If I could get MkZ 3.0TT for 42k I might. The 2017 ones look much nicer. Of course being a TTAC reader I would have to get a used one.

        I keep forgetting that about the transverse part. Bummer. But they still need to build a 4dr mustang. The Mustang is already pretty darn large, wouldn’t take much of a stretch to make a 4 door I imagine.

        • 0 avatar
          bball40dtw

          You have to click on the 2017 MKZ. They have the build and price up for it now. You are correct that the 2016 is only 2.0T/3.7 in traditional ICE form. The 3.0TT will be Lincoln only. The Fusion Sport will get the 2.7TT.

          http://www.lincoln.com/2017-mkz/

          • 0 avatar
            derekson

            That MKZ is what might kill the Continental at that pricing. I can’t imagine they drive very differently, and an AWD 3.0TT MKZ is apparently around the price of the FWD 3.7L Conti.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            I’m pretty happy with the MKZ 3.0TT pricing. For $45K, I can get pretty much all the options I want; 3.0TT, Nav, BLIS, and upgraded Revel audio system. I’d actually be happy to pay more for the MKZ with the 3.0TT with 18s, then get the Fusion Sport with 19s, the 2.7TT, and a less nice interior.

          • 0 avatar
            cgjeep

            I didn’t realize they were making that many changes for 2017. Really looks nice.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            It’s a very good refresh.

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        RWD doesn’t automatically make that better; I was trying (operative word) to help someone change the valve cover gaskets on a Mark VIII. Much swearing and throwing of tools took place.

        granted MN12/FN10 was never intended to hold a DOHC V8, but still.

      • 0 avatar
        TrailerTrash

        THIS 3.o has more power than the 3.5 in the sedans…not the 3.5tt in the F150 and nowhere near that in the supercar Ford GT…and it is the same engine.
        The 3.5 was lowered in power for the sedans.
        Heck, when the MKS was first out it didn’t take long for Hennessy to bring out their 445 HP/Torque build.

        And speaking from experience…the 3.5 tt is one hell of an engine.

        • 0 avatar
          bball40dtw

          The 3.5TT will get a power bump for 2017/2018.

          • 0 avatar
            TrailerTrash

            just not sure what it will be available in then.
            IF the Flex on MKT stick round…maybe.
            The MKS and SHO are likely gone…and I think the Fusion 3.7 tt is the new SHO.
            I guess only in the GT and F150?

          • 0 avatar
            derekson

            “just not sure what it will be available in then.”

            Explorer. Expedition. Navigator.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            The Fusion has the 2.7TT.

            The 3.5TT will be in the Explorer, Expedition, Navigator, MkT replacement (Aviator), Flex or Flex replacement, LWB Edge?, F150, Mustang?, Ranger?, Bronco?, other future products. Don’t expect it to disappear.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      “When I read article I thought the 3.7 was going to be a twin turbo one, a slightly bored out 3.5 twin turbo. For 45k I was like bring it. That would be a big hit. But 72k to get real power, forget it. I also think the 4 door mustang is what Lincoln needs to build. If it costs too much then at least put the coyote motor in a 4dr sedan, just make it awd so it doesn’t torque steer you into the curb. The sound alone would sell them.”

      you aren’t going to buy either of these cars so what does your opinion matter?

  • avatar
    tjh8402

    On the one hand, $45k for a FWD sedan with what I assume will be 300ish hp seems pretty ambitious, especially if you compare it to a Genesis or Chrysler 300. If you compare to other luxury carmakers, then Lincoln doesn’t seem as crazy. $45k is where the GS, CTS, and A6 all start as well. The GS and CTS are RWD but only 4 cylinders. The A6 is FWD and 4 cylinder not at only $45k for a base model, but at $49k for a prestige. Then again, it’s an Audi. $45k is also what the BMW 340i starts at, and considering the bloated luxuriousness that has overtaken the 3 series, it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s a similar size and feel to this Lincoln. Certainly a well equipped 328i can be had for $45k.

  • avatar

    That’s a gorgeous car. I’m not connected to the industry anymore, but that is seriously something I’d be proud to drive. It’s evocative of a late model Jag, but with a distinctively American tone. I think Lincoln nailed this one.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    FlyBrian, you’re going to have some gorgeous new product soon.

  • avatar
    Davekaybsc

    The RLX is a sales disaster just like the RL before it, and the 3.5RL before that. It’s a disaster because it looks like a big nothing, drives like nothing more than a bloated, heavy Honda Accord, and has the interior design and materials of a car that should top out at $45K, not START at $50K.

    The ES has the Lexus Battlestar maw grafted on to an otherwise boring box, with a trying *way* too hard interior design, and that stupid mouse that that they stubbornly refuse to get rid of even though it’s universally loathed. It sells because it has a good badge, and is likely the most reliable car in its class, which is generally the only good reason to buy ANY Lexus these days. Not a single one of them is a class leader in anything other than reliability, or particularly luxurious. The new RX is at least less bad than its DIRT cheap predecessor which was lower quality than a Murano, but it’s still nothing like the new XC90 on the inside.

    The Q70 is beyond tired, and is very due for a replacement. Not much else to say.

    The S90 will likely be a strong competitor for the Lincoln, provided Volvo’s new infotainment system works properly, and people can get over its stupid super-turbo charged 4 which in the real world is no more efficient than the German blown sixes, with a lot less refinement and worse power delivery, but hey if they can con the EPA and EU fuel cycles with it, good enough I guess.

    The S90 is also probably the most direct competitor along with the RLX and XTS given its side-saddle engine and FWD. I’m not sure anybody cares which way the engine sits in their car (if they even know about it at all), but FWD/RWD/AWD still DEFINITELY has an impact in terms of market perception of luxury cars, and if you think otherwise, you’re being naive.

    The Lexus LS is the prime example. Does anyone seriously think that its RWD because it needs that for handling, or driving feel? Please. The LS has no handling or driving feel. It’s RWD because that’s what the S-class and 7 series have, and that’s what’s expected in that class. If your car has the ability to hit a six figure price tag, the driven wheels had better damn well be in the rear, with optional AWD for those that want it.

    The ONLY car to date that has been able to break that rule is the Audi A8, and that’s because the Audi brand is built on AWD, and you can’t buy a FWD A8 here. You may be able to get one with a tiny diesel and FWD in Germany, but that doesn’t count in our market. I’m sure Audi sells a few stripper FWD A4s to those stretching to make the base price, but I bet the take rate for the $46K FWD A6 is probably less than 5%. It’s only another $2K to have that Quattro badge on the back, and even in the sunbelt, I bet the vast majority of shoppers plunk down that cash.

    Hyundai knows the rules, and the Genesis G80 and G90 play by them, rather than trying to play off a stretched Sonata as a luxury car. The current Genesis/G80 looks good enough from the outside, if a little anonymous. At least it’s a lot less anonymous looking than the first Genesis. The interior is… less successful. It has the same design theme that is rolling out across Hyundai’s new sedans, and it doesn’t quite separate itself from them enough. It’s certainly better than the RLX, but that’s no real accomplishment. The S90 is better, the Lexus GS is arguably better, I certainly *hope* for Infiniti’s sake that the next Q70 will be better, and the Germans are all certainly better. The A6 is the weakest of them, but it still definitely feels at least a half step above the Genesis/G80.

    Based on the interior shots of the G90 though, that car doesn’t need to make excuses for anybody. Hyundai has shown repeatedly that they are FAST learners, and if the carryover G80 is weak in the field, the next one won’t be, you can guarantee that.

    As for the Continental, it’s good enough. The side-saddle engine and FWD layout will keep it from being taken too seriously as a 5/E threat, but it will destroy the RLX, and likely give the XTS a good pounding as well. The S90 will likely put up more of a fight, but Volvo has its own history of terrible sales and horrible depreciation in this market with the S80, and time will tell if the S90 is a home run like the XC90, or just another dud.

    The interior is also good enough. The center stack seems kind of stale compared to the cinema scope look of the new E-class, but Continental customers are likely not E customers anyway, and they’ll probably be happy with it as long as Sync 3 works out of the box. At the very least, the seats make the 10-way chairs in Acura and Infiniti cars with fixed lumbar seem like that much more of a fail. Time to wake up guys, you can’t keep selling cars for $50K with the same power adjustments as an Accord EX. We’re on to you. Even Volvo gets it, and their cars have only just gotten ANY kind of power lumbar.

    • 0 avatar
      319583076

      Agreed on all points. Fantastic post.

      • 0 avatar
        derekson

        It was an excellent post, but I disagree with him on the Lexus LS not needing driving/handling feel (good dynamics).

        I think it’s more accurate to say what you said in a post above (319….): that the dynamics of these cars help sell them, but they aren’t enthusiast/Nurburgring dynamics. It’s about the car feeling under control at all times and just buttoned down at any speed and on any surface. And the inherent balance you feel in a car with a longitudinal layout helps with that feel, I would say.

        • 0 avatar
          319583076

          Good point.

          “It’s about the car feeling under control at all times and just buttoned down at any speed and on any surface. And the inherent balance you feel in a car with a longitudinal layout helps with that feel, I would say.”

          Well said. This is obviously a contentious point among the B&B.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            Because it’s bullsh!t. You can’t feel any “inherent balance” unless you are driving in a manner that very, very few LSes or Contis alike ever see.

            There’s one place where RWD or RWD bias helps — tightening the line around a sharp corner — but that has everything to do with RWD itself and nothing to do with engine placement. My old Acura Legend has the engine placed just like a RWD car and still won’t do that one bit. By contrast a SH-AWD MDX with the engine practically in the next car in front does it pretty well.

            Incidentally, if you push through the lack of feel and trust in the geometry, the LS actually handles rather well at the limit. It is nicely balanced like you would expect given its weight distribution. It just really, really doesn’t want the driver to figure that out.

        • 0 avatar
          JimZ

          no. these cars sell on the *promise* of their dynamics, even though 99.999% of the buyers will never make use of them.

    • 0 avatar
      Kyree S. Williams

      I don’t know about the smoothness point. I drove an XC90, and it was smoother than the 3.0-liter turbo I6 in the X5 I had at the time.

    • 0 avatar
      sportyaccordy

      Big problem with American brands is people just aren’t willing to pay more than ~$60K for an American luxury ride, unless it can tow a boat. Doesn’t matter how good they are

      In that context a ~$50-60K FWD Continental makes a ton of sense. That is about all the market can stomach, and at that price it doesn’t make much sense to develop a whole new platform to excel at things that don’t matter to the market. I think Hyundai is going whole hog because they have an even bigger brand hurdle to clear, and I honestly thing they are selling their Genesis/Equus at a loss just to get a footing in the market. Lincoln can’t do that.

    • 0 avatar
      cgjeep

      I agree with almost all but I think rwd does have some luxury benefits over fwd. Absence of torque steer being one, well maybe the only one. Oh and a tighter turn radius. Plus rear wheel spin feels gratifying while front wheel spin feels cheap. Luxury cars should have engines with lots of torque for smooth effortless driving but lots of torque can overwhelm fwd. I remember driving North Star Cadalics in the 90s as an example. True modern electronics make torque steer and wheel spin less of an issue but still exists.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        I don’t expect it, but on a FWD I would be very impressed with a bench seat and a column shifter (or at least a column shifter with buckets). The whole point of FWD was interior space which is sorely lacking in anything FWD these days.

      • 0 avatar
        sportyaccordy

        Fancy front suspensions can mitigate and outright eliminate torque steer. Plus most luxury buyers are not doing anything to prompt wheelspin. Cars have come a long way from those old Northstar Caddys…. there are 500HP FWD time attack cars with no torque steer. It’s been ~25 years since those Caddys came out, things have changed.

        Plus the steering on all of these cars is so completely lifeless it’s not unreasonable to think there are some active torque steering management algorithms at play.

      • 0 avatar
        Davekaybsc

        At the fullsize flagship level, I think the benefits of RWD have as much to do with packaging as anything else. An engine facing longways, going straight to a drive shaft rather than a transaxle means you can push the engine backwards, into more of a front-midship position. This allows you to have a shorter front overhang and allows for a cleaner side profile. Cars with lots of body work hanging over the front tires look obviously FWD based, and not as good as those with short front overhang.

        Pushing the engine backwards also provides a more neutral weight balance. FWD cards are typically around 60/40, whereas a RWD car can be much closer to 50/50. That means more neutral handling and less understeer.

        Turning circle I think has more to do with front suspension design and geometry and the width of the front track more than FWD/RWD. The old Volvo S60/V60R for example had the turning circle of a cruise ship because Volvo shoved in huge wheels without bothering to widen the track.

        The C5 A6 V8 on the other hand had dedicated body work with flared wheel arches. Audi pushed the big wheels further out, so the car could turn as well as the regular A6 2.8 with small wheels.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        FWD geometry can fix torque steer. My longitudinal-engined, double-wishboned, equal-halfshafted, 200 hp Legend has none whatsoever. It’s actually kind of weird for a FWD veteran to feel front wheelspin but no torque steer at all.

    • 0 avatar
      olivebranch2006

      Agree with everything. My biggest question is there has been no Lincoln media at all about the high strength steel safety cage which Volvo advertises everywhere. Has Lincoln improved the safety cage for this stretched MKZ platform which is present in the MKZ? If not then it will not ace the new IIHS small overlap crash test.
      At least as a new 2017 model it will comply with the 2017 Federal DOT mandate for increased Roof Crush strength.

      • 0 avatar
        Kyree S. Williams

        I bet they did.

        Since a “platform” is more a set of dimensions and ratios than an actual structure, platforms are actually less of a factor toward small overlap ratings than you’d think it’d be. So one car could do very poorly on the test, while another one that’s on the same platform can do well. Automakers are even able to modify existing cars during their mid-cycle facelifts to get better small overlap ratings. Toyota did this with a few cars, including the 2015.5 Camry; Volkswagen did it with the 2016 Passat. And now that the test is becoming more and more prevalent, chances are that Ford designed the Continental to perform well on the small overlap, especially since the idea of a Lincoln *is* that it’s one of the safer cars on the road.

        Also, Volvo’s cars are particularly adept at the small overlap in that they seem to sheer the impacted wheel off and let the rest of the vehicle glide smoothly past the obstacle, while competitors’ cars get hooked on the obstacle and absorb more of the crash energy. That does not, however, mean that Volvo’s “high strength steel safety cage” is the only way a car can perform well on the small overlap.

        • 0 avatar
          JimZ

          and then you had the 2013 Fusion which scored “acceptable” even though IIHS introduced the test in 2012. As luck would have it, the design of the Fusion’s front end meant it deflected away from the barrier and kept the A-pillar from slamming into it dead on.

          • 0 avatar
            Kyree S. Williams

            True. It’s possible all of the hard points, including the front crash box, were already finalized by the time the test rolled out. Ford might have updated it for the 2017 refresh of the Fusion, which will hit the lots later this year.

        • 0 avatar
          olivebranch2006

          Volvo strategy doesn’t have much to do with the wheel. More like extending the bumper into the high strength steel beam running up to the A pillar. There is one continuous metal barrier in their frontal frame to the A pillar. The wheel sheering off is a byproduct of this. Look at the xc90 video again, the car bounces to the side once the barrier hits the A pillar. Before then the fender is ripped to shreds.

          Lincoln/fords are reasonably safe in the crash scores some better some worse. I would say above average. They certainly are not perfect and more reactive than proactive with safety cage design.

          Volvo actually researched and designed their cars for the small overlap crash test back in the 80s. They have researched accidents in Sweden with response teams for over 40 years to design their safety cages against real world data, not to react to the latest tests like most auto manufacturers.

          Wife and I purchased a 2015 Lincoln Navigator new and one factor is all five star NHTSA crash test scores. Last week I looked a little deeper… The previous navi/expe to be crash tested by NHTSA was the 2012 model. It scored a two star rating on the side pole test with a note of “increased rib injuries”.

          I could literally find no information provided by ford/Lincoln about why the score improved after days of searching the web. What is frustrating is unlike Volvo, there is no image available of the which steel grades are placed where on the body.

          I then contacted Lincoln customer relations a week ago and the final answer I received yesterday is there were no structural changes made since the 2007 redesign. The manager I spoke with was able to get information from an engineer but would not tell me because it was “propriety information”. I also asked if the current Navigator meets the newer 2017 federal roof strength mandate and he wouldn’t tell me… That is concerning because the 2007 rollover tests of the expedition are pretty bad with head and spine injuries. I’m not surprised because ford contested the new federal mandate for years because it wasn’t necessary?

          The most info I could find is a 2007 automotive steel journal which only lists the percentages of steel grades in the expedition. 1% is UHSS/boron steel, 15% dual phase, 15% high strength, 10% medium strength, and the rest is mild grade. I also read a lot of the strong steel is in the ladder frame… The 1% could be the boron steel side door beams all ford vehicles have. That leaves very little stronger steel in the passenger compartment…

          I then also read how the f150 the current expedition is based on (last gen steel body f150) utilized hydro formed steel tubes from the fender to the a/b/c pillar roof line. It is strong and cheaper to make then boron steel and provides great roof strength. Since the f150 is roof strength tested by the IIHS they had to put these tubes in. Because the expedition is not tested by the IIHS I have my doubts. I found the same tubes in my navigator when I popped the hood but can only see in the fender… I have no idea if the roof is protected with these tubes. The Lincoln point of contact again would not tell me…

          I told the rep I was frustrated that ford shows diagrams of the steel grades in their other cars like f150, Taurus, fusion, fiesta… And more. He wouldn’t provide anything and I usually believe if they hide the data then there is something to hide.

          I’m starting to regret my purchase. I now think Ford Lincoln is reactive with safety and not proactive like Volvo. It is one thing to design for the test but a much better idea is to design for real life scenarios. I am seriously considering dumping this car in a few years and getting something else. The Lincoln Continental was probably designed to pass all the latest crash tests but I have little faith in Ford on this. Unless I see some numbers, information, and diagrams I have learned to not simply trust them.

          On a side note I am a long time reader and think very highly of all of you!!!

          Have you seen the 40% boron steel safety cage on the xc90 SUV and s90 sedan? The diagram is impressive and the rollover test is amazing. No other car has that much high strength steel than the xc90 and until ford Lincoln starts designing in that mentality, I may decide to put my precious three children and beloved Wife into something else soon.

          Cheers

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            The Navigator is safe. However, I wouldn’t expect it to have the same level of high strength steel as a brand new XC90. It’s platform dates back to 2003. I can tell you that the 2015 Navi is safer than the previous versions based on changes that Ford made while also rolling out the 2015 F150.

          • 0 avatar
            olivebranch2006

            I have been looking for any changes and they are only cosmetic and the new engine. What do you know about the 2015 changes? Not trolling but genuinely curious.

            I read ford now has boron steel door beams on all vehicles but the Lincoln rep would not tell me when that change was made. I don’t know if it had any effect on the 2015 updated crash test scores because they may have been installed in 2003 or 2007 update years.

          • 0 avatar
            olivebranch2006

            @bball40dtw
            The 2015 navigator is based on the 2014 and previous years F150 ladder frame. The 2015 and 2016 Navigators are still on steel frames with steel bodies. The 2015 F150 is the newer steel frame with all aluminum bodies. Navigator and Expedition are not moving to the 2015 f150 ladder frame and aluminum bodies until model year 2017.

    • 0 avatar
      bd2

      The XTS will take a hit (but Cadillac loyalists will still partake), but at the same time, will also take a hit from the CT6.

      But the XTS’s days are numbered.

    • 0 avatar
      Chocolatedeath

      Believe it or not you can get an A8 front wheel drive. you just have to look for it. I found 2 on Carmax and several on Autotrader.

  • avatar
    Macca

    I think the styling, at least from the few shots I’ve seen, is spot on. Not sure how the drivetrain will stack up in this range, but I’m not allergic to FWD.

    Also, TTAC did a writeup of Woodhouse’s introduction as design director two years ago, almost to the day:

    https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/04/wolff-out-woodhouse-in-as-lincoln-design-director/

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    Attn: will Corey please pick up the white courtesy phone in the Lincoln article? Thanks.

  • avatar
    Eyeflyistheeye

    As a Ford guy, I’d like to pick one of these up used in 2020 for $25k. If I had to buy new for the same price since this has become Genesis vs. Continental, I’d take the Genesis.

    I see this as Lincoln’s XTS. The XTS is a nice car, but everything in the class at $45k is pretty nice.

  • avatar
    andyinatl

    That front end, and especially headlights, look like 8 year old Volvo S80… I think it’s priced right too; you’re getting a vehicle slotted between mid-size and full-size luxury at below mid-size luxury price. Between this and S90 i’d get the new S90, but i think both will likely suffer from terrible depreciation. I love these cars used, where for the price of base Accord, you can get a Volvo flagship with 30K miles on it… or Lincoln

  • avatar
    sportyaccordy

    Repeat after me kids:

    – Luxury buyers do NOT care about drive wheels, outside of AWD in snowy climates (see: Audi, Lexus, Bentley)
    – Luxury buyers will NOT pay more than $60K for an American vehicle that cannot tow a boat or isn’t a special edition Camaro/Corvette
    – Luxury buyers do NOT push their cars hard enough to know how far ahead or behind the axle the engine is.
    – Talk of chassis balance and dynamics is ridiculous in the discussion context of a car with a wheelbase over 7 feet and a curb weight in excess of 2 tons… the huge footprint will dominate the feel of the car, which is the point
    – Halo cars DO NOT… I repeat DO NOT WORK!!!

    • 0 avatar
      Kyree S. Williams

      Thank you.

    • 0 avatar
      319583076

      A Porsche 911 weighs as much as 3700 lbs, spitting distance to 2 tons and has a wheelbase of 8 feet (i.e. – over 7 feet). Does it’s *almost* “huge” footprint dominate the feel of the car?

      • 0 avatar
        sportyaccordy

        I had a brain fart. I meant 9 feet.

        But yes, big weight, soft springs and a long wheelbase pretty much guarantee a comfy ride.

        • 0 avatar
          319583076

          A BMW M4 has a 9 foot wheelbase and weighs 4,000 lbs.

          What was the last physics class you’ve taken?

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            can you please get off it with that “physics class” nonsense? no physics class deals with vehicle dynamics. You’ve already been told that things like weight distribution and the like only come in to play at the limits of a car’s handling. Nobody- and I mean *nobody*- drives their cars at the limits.

            Nobody. the crap you’re talking about simply doesn’t matter.

          • 0 avatar
            319583076

            What I’ve been told is unsubstantiated opinion.

            “no physics class deals with vehicle dynamics.”

            Between you and me, there’s nothing else to discuss.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Then just let it go, 319

          • 0 avatar
            319583076

            When the trolls win, we all lose.

          • 0 avatar
            sportyaccordy

            I haven’t taken a physics class since I graduated college and earned my bachelor’s in mechanical engineering ~10 years ago. Have you done anything with your cursory knowledge of physics besides use them as a basis for making poor, unsubstantiated arguments on the internet?

            Again, if engine placement and chassis polar moment is so critical to luxury buyers, why have high polar moment cars like Audis and Lexus ESs thrived? Do you have any surveys or research data showing that the people buying these cars care, or are you just making that up too?

    • 0 avatar
      bd2

      Many of the mass market luxury buyers don’t.

      But higher up – they do.

      Also, the RLX is a prime example of FWD-based luxury failure.

      • 0 avatar
        sportyaccordy

        RLX failed for a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with drive wheels. People still look back on the 2G Legend fondly, almost to the point that they have tears in their eyes. Audi still sells FWD A8s in Europe and FWD A6s here. Again, repeat after me- luxury buyers don’t care about drive wheels.

        • 0 avatar
          cgjeep

          I agree that people don’t care what wheels are doing the driving but they do care how the car drives. I think a lot of the rwd cars drive better. Not necesarily because they are rwd but the rwd luxury cars have platforms that were built to be luxury cars. A lot of the fwd luxury cars are modifed plebian platforms.

          The 2g legends were awsome.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            no they don’t. you just assume they do because you do.

          • 0 avatar
            sportyaccordy

            Like JimZ said, you care, and are just projecting that on the market. People don’t care because most of them don’t even know.

            Plus a lot of plebian platforms are pretty robust, and like the Lexus ES/RX shows they can be insulated and modified to meet the standards of luxury buyers. It’s not like the 90s when mainstream cars were made from rice paper and you really did need a whole new platform for something luxury. Something like a Golf or Mazda3 is as quiet and solid as a 20 yr old Benz

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Yes, but the large and midsized Jaguar sedans have not sold well in decades, so obviously RWD is a complete and total failure in the marketplace.

            Also, the Pontiac Aztec did poorly, so obviously CUVs are never going to sell. Duh!

          • 0 avatar
            cgjeep

            I actually don’t care cause I’ll never really be in the market for an S class or a Lexus LS. I agree that the current Golf is very nice and more in line with what I would purchase. My point is that people drive an S class or a LS notice that it drives nicer than an ES and chalk it up to it being rwd. The drive wheels don’t have anything to do with it, the underlying platform does. Lexus ES drives nice, but not as nice as a LS. So stating that the current Golf is as quiet and solid as a 20 year old Benz is great but you aren’t comparing it to a current one.

        • 0 avatar
          bd2

          The RLX failed in part due to its transverse FWD layout (as did the RL) and even more so by what Honda was trying to charge for the RLX.

          Charging $51k to start for transverse FWD was reaching for the stars and doomed to failure.

          GM is charging $45k for the XTS and wisely, Ford is doing the same with the Conti (also have the ES at $38 and one can make an argument that the RLX’s interior is not that much better than that for the ES).

          We are talking about the US market and not the European market.

          The A6 starts at $46k in the US.

          The 5 Series starts at $50k and the E Class at nearly $53k and yet, the cheaper A6 has never been able to come close to sales volumes of the RWD Germans.

          Only recently has the A6 managed to outsell the GS (which these days, is no great shakes).

          As Europe – the FWD A8s sell well b/c cheaper and based on displacement tax rates, being FWD doesn’t matter nearly when powered by smaller displacement engines.

    • 0 avatar
      bd2

      Not true at all.

      Otherwise, FWD luxury sedans would be priced right alongside the RWD sedans, but they aren’t.

      The transverse FWD sedans are priced a whole segment DOWN (if not 2 segments down in the case of the ES) and even Audis with their longitudinal setup are priced below its German RWD competition.

      There’s a reason why the Conti is priced alongside the midsize CTS and not the CT6 (which isn’t a true flagship model).

    • 0 avatar
      Jagboi

      The Continental has been FWD since the 88 model year, and those redesigned for 88 cars sold very well at the time.

      If RWD is so important for luxury car buyers, why did the FWD 9th generation Conti sell 3x as many cars as the RWD Mark VIII?

      • 0 avatar
        bd2

        Didn’t say that there wasn’t a market for luxury FWD models.

        Just that they sell at a lower price-point relative to their size.

        Not everyone is willing to pay RWD prices (or cares) – hence the popularity of the ES (a full size at compact prices) or the XTS still selling well for Cadillac.

        Don’t recall the previous Conti ever being compared to the S Class and it wasn’t included in comparisons with the likes of the E Class and 5 Series (of which it was priced against).

        Again, think the new Conti priced where it is will do well for Lincoln, but that wouldn’t be the case if it was priced like the CT6, much less the S Class.

  • avatar
    Mikein08

    Is this anything more than a glorified Taurus?

  • avatar
    jimmyy

    Some on this board know I am a Detroit car hater. Why? Unreliable junk with poor resale. But, there are a few Detroit vehicles I would purchase.

    Tahoe.
    Corvette.
    2017 Lincoln Continental.

    I just added a third vehicle. That Lincoln is cool. I wonder if the Newport Beach or Upper East Side NYC set will purchase.

    • 0 avatar
      derekson

      ” I wonder if the Newport Beach or Upper East Side NYC set will purchase.”

      LOL

      Those people wouldn’t be caught dead in a Lincoln.

      Literally. They probably pay for Bentley hearses.

  • avatar
    johnny_5.0

    Has the 400hp MKZ been priced yet? I still want a cheap lease MKZ rocket.

    • 0 avatar
      johnny_5.0

      Argh…guess I should have read through more comments. Bball already pointed this out above. The configurator is already live. The base $42K version is probably nice enough for me.

  • avatar
    johnpmc72

    Ford sure has some sellers remorse. First, the Fusion looked like Aston Martins, then the Explorer looked like a Range Rover, and now, they made Lincoln look like a Jaguar.

  • avatar
    laserwizard

    The new Cadihack Seedy Six can be optioned to over $80k. The new Continental is a bargain and will be superior product.

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