By on October 30, 2014

Nissan Titan Cummins Holset M2 Two-Stage System with Rotary Turbine Control

When the next-gen Nissan Titan rolls up to the stage at next year’s Detroit Auto Show, the full-size truck will have a big oil-burner with enough sequential firepower to put all on Truck Mountain on notice.

Car & Driver reports the 5-liter Cummins turbodiesel V8 — expected to pump out 300 horsepower and 500 lb-ft. of torque — will come equipped with a sequential turbocharging system called the Holset M2 Two-Stage System with Rotary Turbine Control; Holset was an engineering firm in England that was purchased by Cummins in the 1970s, then renamed Cummins Turbo Technologies in 2006.

The system uses an electronically controlled rotary valve to direct exhaust flow to either one of the two turbos feeding power to the engine, shifting focus from the smaller to the larger of the turbos as airflow increases with engine speed and load.

As well as regulating boost pressure, the Rotary Turbine Control can be used as an exhaust brake when the accelerator is lifted. In turn, the increased temperatures resulting from the act help burn off more soot in the engine’s particulate filter.

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64 Comments on “Next-Gen Nissan Titan Equipped With New Turbodiesel Tech...”


  • avatar
    schmitt trigger

    For those in the B&B, a question:
    Aren’t the Cummins Diesels the most troublesome or less reliable in the market?
    Or is my impression wrong?

    • 0 avatar
      Mr Imperial

      -Very much off.

      The Cummins 6.7/5.9 inline six used in the (Dodge) Ram Trucks are the most reliable of the diesel engines used by the big three in their 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. 300,000+ (maybe 500K?) mile overhaul intervals, which is especially noteworthy in the hard lives the engines live.

      The Cummins is a true medium-duty engine, originally designed for use in farm equipment, generators, and large trucks. There’s a reason why Ford uses it in their F-750 medium duty trucks instead of their own in-house Powerstroke diesel.

      The Duramax from GM is a really good engine as well, but it is a light duty engine-one won’t find it in nearly as many applications in the medium duty market as the Cummins. The Detroit Diesel-made 6.2 naturally aspirated V8 and 6.5 turbo were good engines reliability-wise, but were made for mileage, not power.

      Ford’s (now) in-house Powerstroke is starting to prove itself (but is also a light duty engine), the older International Harvester-made 6.0 and 6.4 Power Stroke diesels were litigation and warranty nightmares, causing Ford to end their 20+ year relationship with International Harvester for engines. The 6.9 & 7.3 naturally aspirated V8 engines were good, and especially the turbocharged 7.3 Power Stroke.

      • 0 avatar
        schmitt trigger

        Thanks for the thorough explanation!

      • 0 avatar
        LeMansteve

        What’s the difference between light, medium and heavy duty engines?

        • 0 avatar
          Mr Imperial

          No need to re-invent the wheel, here’s a good read:

          http://www.dieselhub.com/tech/truck-classifications.html

          I should clarify more-the engines aren’t classified as light/medium/heavy-it’s the type of truck the engine is used in. Cummins are found in light/medium/heavy applications (same displacement and engine) in all three classes, while the Duramax and Powerstroke are used primarily in light, and a couple of medium duty applications. No heavy duty for those.

          • 0 avatar
            greaseyknight

            Good read, Cummins engines are found across all the different classes of trucks. But the 5.9/6.7 is used in the light/medium duty trucks, not the Semi Trucks, as its not robust enough for that job.

            7.3 Internationals were also used in medium duty trucks and School Buses. If the badge says T444E, its a Powerstroke. Personally I’d prefer a DT466, but they are way to big to fit in a passenger truck.

          • 0 avatar
            Carilloskis

            Having worked in Vehicle maintenance I got to see all of the big 3 Diesel pickups while the Cummins do hold up extremly well the rest of the truck doesn’t the Rams hit their one repair limits alot faster than the GM and Ford, and most Fords we have coming in are the 6.0l varaity and the IH medium duties with the 6.0 have the same issues. the fact that we still keep the 6.0 Fords in the Fleet and have gotten rid of the cummins powered rams of the same vintage speaks volumes on the overall reliability of the Ram, we dont need to touch that motor the rest of the truck just falls apart around it.

            I have heard good things from friends at diesel specaltiy shops about the new 6.7l from Ford, and the current D-Max they say they are all similar in reliability these days now that alot of the teething issues with thte EPA mandated systems have been iorned out. I take their word on the newer trucks as our fleet has started swiched to gassers as the cost of diesel engines has gone up significantly and the gas engines have similar capabilities as the mid 2000s diesels. We only need 4-500lb-ft tq not the insane 860 of the current powerstroke or 865 of the current ram.

          • 0 avatar
            RobertRyan

            The IVECO 5.9 Litre engine brother of the Cummins 5.9., is found in the MDT Eurocargo in Europe.

          • 0 avatar
            RobertRyan

            @Mr Imperial
            Duramax and Powerstroke are basically light duty engines. A small diesel like the 3 litre in the small Isuzu Truck like the current NPR, is actually a heavy duty unit

        • 0 avatar
          drewtam

          Light/Medium/Heavy classification is a matter of load factor. Generally speaking, if the engine is at rated power and speed for more than 50% of the time, it is considered a heavy duty application. This is typical of say power generation (>90% Load factor) or quarry and mining excavators (~70% load factor). Large class 8 trucks that get on the interstate and just put the pedal down, can also get into these heavy duty loads.

          Passenger cars are very light duty. They usually are idling (stopped, braking, parked, etc) or cruising under very low power and low engine speed most of the time.

      • 0 avatar
        Carilloskis

        Ford is putting the 6.7 in its upcoming f650/750 trucks and droping the cummins, I think they are confident that their engine is reliable and will not cost them any sales.

      • 0 avatar
        Numbers_Matching

        True – but the B series (and ISB) Cummins has always been a lighter duty engine in the world of industrial diesels – mainly due to the parent bore block. True heavy duty diesels have replaceable liners.

        Ratings for industrial class engines are related to duty cycle – number of hours accumulated/year @ load factor.

    • 0 avatar
      mikeg216

      The cummins engines are the overall most reliable diesel engines ever made, in particular the 5.9 due to the fact that it is all mechanical and none of the electronics to get in the way. The rebuild Interval for the engine is recommended at 750,000 miles, you put in new injectors and pumps and rear sleeve your pistons and you’re good to go. It along with the older international 7.3 and 5.9 were engines for light duty dump trucks excavators and large box trucks put into light duty trucks, which lead to the legendary reliability. A light duty vehicle would be class 1-4 think ford 150 through f 450 medium duty single axle dumps large box trucks, big delivery trucks those would be class 4-6 class 7-8 would be big 8 axle mack dumps and over the road semi trucks that can pull 1-3 60,000 trailers coast to coast. Those vehicles are between 12-14 liters and put down 1600-2800 ft lbs at 1200 rpm and have anywhere between 10-18 gears and gear splitters and dual compound lows that would make a jeep Rubicon in 4 low seem like a speed demon, put a mack dump in low low and watch it crawl with 80,000 lbs of rocks in the back up and over anything the new powerstroke and cummins 6.7 are neck and neck and neck in redefining what can be done with a medium duty engine in a light duty truck

  • avatar
    VW16v

    GM’s duramax diesels and a couple bad years for the Ford Powerstroke is about the extent of diesel issues. I think the Dodge Cummins diesels have been quite strong not a lot of issues.

  • avatar
    jrmason

    The 5.0 Liter is a brand new engine that Cummins has been working on for several years. As to the question of whether or not Cummins is a reliable platform, I suppose it depends on what you consider reliable. Cummins engines have been used in medium and heavy duty trucks, ag equipment, mining equipment, construction equipment, marine applications, generation stations, and the railroad industry for decades. Cummins engines are found in medium duty Ford trucks in favor of the infamous Power stroke due to reliability and emissions problems with the Power Stroke. When Navistar ceased their engine manufacturing because they couldn’t meet emissions, Cummins was contracted to fill the void. Catipllar recently quit makinghighway engines for the same reason yet Cummins is still pumping out engines that exceed every emissions tier across the world. There are companies that make conversion kits to drop a Cummins engine ina Ford or Chevy pickups. There is a million mile club for Dodge pick ups with the Cummins engine. Many have surpassed the 2 million mile mark. In my opinion, yes they are reliable.

    • 0 avatar
      mikeg216

      They’re reliable for sure but the reason for the cummins engines in the class 6-7 ford’s is so that way fleets can be streamlined with one engine through all platforms, I’d say that the cummins 6.7 and 6.7 are about dead even now, I’ll be looking at a 450 – 550 chassis cab next year and I’d buy the Dodge over the Ford and I’m a ford guy. If the Dodge was not built in Mexico and the transmission is built in China..the Ford uses all in house American components and us made 30 minutes from me in Lorain Ohio

      • 0 avatar
        jrmason

        The Ford 6.7 Is 100% built in MExico.

        If your referring to the Aisin transmission in the Rams, Aisin Warner is a massive transmission company that has built transmissions for virtually all automotive manufacturers as well as Class VI and Class VIII trucks for decades. They will prove to be as reliable or more than the Allison trans Which has gained its reputation through a good torque management program courtesy of GM.

        • 0 avatar
          raresleeper

          Ah, ci!

          Meh-He-coh.

        • 0 avatar
          indi500fan

          The Allison 1000 was designed to replace the AT500 series for school buses and Class 5-6 trucks – 26,000 lb chassis. The pickup truck came along for the ride as a way to get some of the well regarded Allison reliability to rub off on the pickup line in 2001. It was also throwing a bone to the UAW putting a transmission factory in Baltimore to supply the HD pickup volume.
          You could take those 13 yr old pickups, throw away everything but the trans, put it in a medium truck, and run another quarter million miles.

    • 0 avatar
      RobertRyan

      ActuallyCAT has released new CAT Vocational Trucks. I think the “CAT ” engine, is the Navistar engine that was developed by MAN in Germany. Now MAN is wholly owned by VW. CAT Vocational Trucks were a joint project of Navistar and CAT. Navistar has largely with drawn from the project.

      • 0 avatar
        Scoutdude

        No Navistar has not withdrawn from the project they are the ones that build the CAT trucks. For power they offer the same range of engines as used in the comparable International truck including the MAXForce 15 which is the old CAT 15L which was transferred to Navistar with the deal to rebadge Navistar trucks as CAT trucks.

    • 0 avatar
      Scoutdude

      Navistar still makes their own engines, along with the Cat 15L now rebadged as the MAXForce15. Cat got out of the on-hwy engine business years ago when they struck the deal with Navistar to give them their 15L engine in exchange for Navistar producing the new Cat on-hwy trucks.

      The reason for offering the Cummins as an option in Navistar trucks is two fold. #1 they finally stopped fighting with the EPA and the fact that the EPA pulled the credit program and started fining Navistar. That meant Navistar has started offering their engines with SCR. Since they had to engineer a spot for that added equipment they could now offer the Cummins easily, something that they had done for many years in the past. #2 Some fleets prefer a single engine for maintenance and repair concerns so the Cummins is attractive to them for that reason. It also didn’t hurt that since Ford offered it in their joint venture trucks the pieces were already on the line to mount them.

      The 5.9 was a very reliable engine, their current offering not so much. Either way that means nothing when it comes to the reliability of this new engine, only time will tell if it is truly reliable or not. It does stand a good chance but so did the 6.0PS/VT365 based on the reliability of the 7.3PS/T444E and we all know how that turned out.

      • 0 avatar
        RobertRyan

        CAT Trucks do not have a great name here as they are thought of as Navistar with a different name, as a result do not sell

        • 0 avatar
          NoGoYo

          I’ve literally only ever seen ONE of the CAT branded trucks.

          Granted, most dump trucks in my neck of the woods are probably at least 5 years old, a good amount 10 years old or older. Old Kenworths and R-model Macks and such.

          • 0 avatar
            RobertRyan

            When I was in New Zealand, I saw Australian assembled ones, carrying CAT Tractors, Earthmovers etc. that made the grand total of 3 Trucks

  • avatar
    Quentin

    I’m somewhat perplexed about a diesel this capable in a 1/2 ton chassis. It will likely be very costly as we’ve seen that the VM Motari diesel is a $5k price jump over the comparable Pentastar and a $2k jump over the much more powerful Hemi.* The chassis will still be limited to 10k or 11k lbs towing. This engine will tow those loads with ease and probably reasonably efficient, but if you are towing that kind of payload for the kind of miles that would drive you to a diesel, maybe a 3/4 ton truck is a better choice. With newer diesels not being as bullet proof as the old ones thanks to tighter emissions, I’m just not sure that this combo makes a lot of sense from a business perspective. I guess I just see the smaller diesel making marginally more sense because the performance envelope seems to match a half ton chassis better. This looks like the engine will way outclass the chassis as far as performance envelope. But, I’m not a truck buyer and I probably shouldn’t discount some of the less rational reasons that people use to buy trucks…

    * Before anyone brings up torque, the VM Motari Ram is SLOW. CR got a whopping 9.5 seconds to 60 and 17.5 in the quarter. The Hemi Ram does 7.1 seconds and 15.5 comparatively. Several of the gas V8 half ton trucks are in the 6.x range per CR.

    • 0 avatar

      “I’m somewhat perplexed about a diesel this capable in a 1/2 ton chassis”
      Me too.

      9.5 seconds to 60 is too slow?
      I wish I could take you back to a sad time for automobiles, called the mid to late 70s’…

      • 0 avatar
        Quentin

        My first car was a 1993 Impreza with AWD and a 1.8L. I know all about slow. I’ve also put around 20k miles on a Prius. I never found either of them dangerously slow, but in the realm of modern truck buyers, that is a pokey puppy. My comment was more to head off the folks that use a peak torque figure as some sort of stat to say a vehicle is fast. The VM Motari Ram makes a ton of torque but is still quite slow compared to the Hemi that makes comparable peak torque.

      • 0 avatar
        Sigivald

        “Is full size truck. Is not race car.”

        Seriously, though, I never even consider trying to make my F250 go “fast”.

        It has crappy enough fuel economy as is, taking things slow.

      • 0 avatar
        mikeg216

        1978 Volkswagen rabbit diesel, 22.5 seconds to 60

      • 0 avatar
        cronus

        That’s 9.5 seconds to 60 unloaded and at full throttle. To comfortably get up to speed with a fully loaded trailer it could use more power.

    • 0 avatar
      mikeg216

      If you put a ten speed behind it and it gets 30 mpg in a full size and a 750k rebuild Interval it’ll be on a short list of possible personal vehicles. Put the 2.5 cummins on the frontier and I’ll throw money at the first Nissan salesman I see

  • avatar
    jrmason

    Comparing a 3.0 Liter diesel engine to a 5.7 Liter gas engine is an apples to oranges comparison. The VM engine is literally almost half the displacement with two less cylinders yet still produces as much torque and achieves better fuel eefficiency pushing the same chassis down the road. Torque is the true definition and the key to measuring horsepower. Put 8k pounds behind both trucks on a steep grade and see which engine works harder to crest the grade. People that choose to own a diesel engine are choosing that option for other reasons beside quarter mile times.

    Cummins engines have been found in all classes of trucks, construction equipment, ag equipment, mining equipment, marine applications, generation platforms, and locomotive engines. As mentioned above they are found in Ford’s medium duty platforms for their durability and ability to meet emissions. Since Ford went to their in house diesel they now use their own engines but time will tell how well they hold up. When the EPA shut Navistar down due to their inability to meet emissions, they contracted Cummins to supply the engines/emissions systems in their International trucks. Catipllar recently ceased their on road engine department for emissions reasons and Cummins has filled the void of some of the truck manufacturers that used to be Cat powered. There is a million mile club for Dodge Ram trucks with Cummins engines, and there are a handful in the group that have surpassed 2 million miles. There are companies that offer conversion kits that allow a Cummins engine to be dropped in a Ford or Chevy pick up. In short, yes they are reliable engines.

  • avatar
    mkirk

    The Titan has a reputation as an also ran. The new truck has to make a splash. They may not sell a ton of these (though they may sell one to this guy), The specs will look great in comercials with the obligatory “Best in class towing, blah blah blah.”

  • avatar
    davefromcalgary

    I found the last/current Titan to be fugly. Its hard to put my finger on it, but it just had all the wrong angles, where at least the Frontier had the right angles and proportions.

    I shudder to picture a new version when I consider Nissan’s current design language.

  • avatar
    Sky_Render

    I can’t help but think that Chrylser made a huge mistake in passing up this engine in favor of a Fiat diesel.

    • 0 avatar
      danio3834

      It doesn’t really fit their portfolio as well. Ram 3/4+ ton trucks available with the 6.7L diesel for those who want big power. The 3.0L diesel is better suited for the 1/2 ton market with it’s gas V8-like torque output and better fuel economy than the 5.0L Cummins will manage.

      It sorta works for Nissan becaus they don’t have HD trucks to push their customers into who want bigger power, though it won’t fit the fuel economy niche as well.

    • 0 avatar
      Numbers_Matching

      5.0L displacement is overkill for a 1/2 ton. 3.0 – 3.5L is all you need to meet most if not any available naturally aspirated gasoline V8 torque levels. In fact – most modern diesels will surpass them in low speed torque.

    • 0 avatar
      mikeg216

      Chrysler makes the vm motori diesel. The cummins engines were sold to Chrysler, it adds considerable expense. First cummins makes it then sells it and then they sell it to you. That’s why it’s a $9,000 option for you and me. Chrysler

  • avatar
    bball40dtw

    I forsee lots of warranty claims on tires in Nissan’s future.

  • avatar
    jrmason

    Not to turn this into a Ford bashing thread, but the reason Ford is running their own engines is because it’s exponentionally cheaper to run an in-house engine, even when the warranty claims are higher. Same reason why Ram went with the VM engine, because it’s in-house. Probably a more economic decision than the 5.0 anyhow. I have a friend with an F550 service truck and he is in the process of having his 3rd engine installed in 150k miles. The truck runs at max GVW all the time and regularly sees 2500+ RPM. It’s been in the shop more times then he can remember and has cost him a lot of days sitting in a hotel or at home while Ford rips the body off for repairs. But his company foots the bill so not much he can do about it. I like Ford and own two of them but I won’t any other diesel pick up but a Ram/CTD until Ford can prove they have a reliable platform. Kinda hard to do that so long as they stick with a V8 platform with aluminum heads and injectors/injector pumps that don’t have the best track record. Ram has it’s own shortcomings like ball joints and brakes but those can be easily remedied with
    a set of Dyntatracs.

    • 0 avatar
      mikeg216

      Well no wonder it keeps needing engines, he bought too small of a truck for his needs. Sounds like he should’ve stepped up to a 650 or 750 with a higher gwv, oh and stop revving the shit out of it. The hell is he doing that he maxes out the weight of a 550?the gvw is 36k. It’s not ford’s fault that your friend bought the wrong too small tool for the job. How long would you’re car last if you overloaded it and then pushed the gas pedal to the floor all day every day? I bet there’s about a 0% chance of it making it to 50,000.

      • 0 avatar
        jrmason

        What would you like him to do stay off the freeway? 2500RPM @ 70 MPH. Going to be rather difficult since he travels the country. The truck has no issue running at max GVW, the front end is still untouched. The engine can’t survive when it’s got a load unDer it.

        • 0 avatar
          Big Al from Oz

          2 500rpm on the freeway at 70mph?

          What is it an old 1.6 litre mini truck?

          Most modern diesels wouldn’t run at those rpms unless he down a gear or two.

          Sounds like your friends truck is waaaaay to small for the job at hand. I agree with Mikeg216.

          Tell him to look at a Hino or Izuzu if you can get a MDT in the US or even a Nissan UD. These trucks run around a 7 litre diesel and can carry 20 tons 24/7.

          Pickups aren’t 24/7 trucks.

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            @BAFO – 2,500 RPM @ 70 mph is normal for a 4.88 geared MDT. My 6.0 diesel does that all day long, no problem.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            @DiM’est,
            Another truck?? And you live in an apartment in Winnepeg??

            DiM’est if you read my comment I stated MODERN.

            Why would you use such a small engine in a truck DiM??

            The weights this guy is talking we use anything up to a 10 litre diesel.

            But this guy is using a “part time” truck a pickup. Pickups are good for lighter and more occasional work.

            But real work needs to be done by a proper truck. One that’s engineered to handle those loads.

            How’s you tow truck business and your Spanish F Series dealship? I thought you live in a 10square home???

            Boy you really are something. Really.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            @DiM’mer,
            Here a link to a proper truck this guy needs. The engine is a truck diesel. If you are a truck guy like you claim you wouldn’t talk about the F-550 as you do. It’s boofy F-350. Not a real truck as such.

            As good as the PowerStroke is it’s a light diesel. The gasoline Triton powered F-550 isn’t even in the league of a truck for a serious operator.

            Here the link, this truck has an 8 litre diesel and it would struggle to reach 2 500rpm. Truck engines are like that. But hey you own a truck business. Not.

            http://www.isuzu.com.au/Isuzu_Files/Spec_Sheets/Current_spec_sheets/FRR600_FRR600-CREW_ARK0779.pdf

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            @BAFO – It’s class 6 Isuzu MDT. So what? Hino and Isuzu are good, but what about Navistar, Freightliner and Peterbilt? They all build MDTs. Except all of these are susceptible to abuse. And all are turning about 2,500 rpm @ 70 mph. But another good thing about Fords is parts are always close by, or “next day” at worst.

          • 0 avatar
            jrmason

            So let me get this straight – you say 19,500 GVW is too much for a 6.7. Yet an 8 Liter should be able to handle 40k “all day”? And a Triton V-10 is even comparable to any of these engines? If the chassis is designed to gross 19,500 pounds, and it is because he has had zero issues with the truck, then the engine should be able to handle it as well. If 1 ton diesel pickups can gross out at over 25k GCW and run hundreds of thousands of miles why should this 550 be any different? I would also like to know how this could be blamed on the driver when 95% of his miles are freeway driven and the cruise is set? Sounds like denial to me.

        • 0 avatar
          DenverMike

          Pulling the body off means the head gaskets are blown or other major damage. At some point, you have to blame the driver.

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    300hp and 500ftlb of torque?

    I do think this is a very conservative figure. I do think it would or I would assume it will have a significant leap in the power/torque statkes.

    Using a twin turbo setup I would have thought would of given it at least 400hp and over 600ftlb of torque. I suppose we will have to wait and see.

  • avatar
    jrmason

    VM Motori builds the 3.0 Liter EcoDiesel, which is owned by Fiat which bought the majority stake in Chrysler.Fiat also owns 90% OF Ferrari. Sounds kinda like a complicated love affair doesn’t it? LOL . I actually think the merger is one of the best things to happen to Chrysler in a looong time. We are starting to see better quality products the Europeans are used to seeing being pushed down the assembly line.

  • avatar
    jrmason

    I don’t guess either of you have ever driven an International or MDT Ford. As far back as the 4700 series with the 7.3 Liter in the mid 90’s they have geared those engines to run at those speeds. You’ll have to ask Navistar and Ford why they engineered them to run at those RPM’s. And why does he need a larger truck? As long as he is within the vehicles GVWR he is doing absolutely nothing wrong.
    FYI, the GVW of an F550 is about half of what you claimed at 19,500lbs.I’ll say it again, he has had zero issues with the rest of the truck. It has held up well so no he does not need a bigger truck. He just needs an engine to stay together longer than 40k miles, but it is a company truck so he has no say in the matter.

    • 0 avatar
      DenverMike

      At some point you have to blame the driver. He’s no doubt abusing the truck. Or in combination with poor maintenance, shoddy repairs and driving on, at the 1st signs of trouble.

  • avatar
    jrmason

    You can blame whoever you like. Ever owned a new Power stroke and had to deal with Ford for warranty repairs? Ever since they did away with the 7.3 Their bays have been flooded with warranty claims and the service techs have a list they go through when say a fuel system failure comes in and will try to pin it on the owner for poor fuel quality to get out from under the bill. (just an example) He is a heavy equipment service tech so he understands equipment very well. It’s a company truck so it gets serviced regularly. Like I said, almost all of his miles are freeway miles going from one job site to the next so it gets run at constant RPM for hours at a time. This should NOT be an issue, is this not what diesels are designed for? Constant duty cycle is where a diesel will outperform a gasser, or at least it should. The 6.7 Is better than the previous Navistar platforms and I’m glad to see they stayed away from the HEUI system but in true Ford fashion they have over engineered the 6.7 and it’s short comings show up under high mileage or when the engine gets pushed even remotely hard.

    • 0 avatar
      DenverMike

      I’ve owned Ford 6.0 and 6.4 PSDs and know them inside out. They don’t grenade unless they’re abused, WOT from every stop and every hill. And or poorly maintained. Then forced to drive on at the 1st signs to trouble. Same with blown head gaskets. None of this happens spontaneously, regardless of what drivers claim.

  • avatar
    DenverMike

    I’ve owned 6.0 and 6.4 PSDs and know them ins!de out. They don’t grenade unless they’re abused, WOT from every stop and every hill. And or poorly maintained. Then forced to continue at the 1st signs of trouble. Same with blown head gaskets. None of this happens spontaneously, regardless of what drivers claim.

    • 0 avatar
      jrmason

      If your statement was true, they wouldn’t have scrapped both engine platforms in only a few years. Your experiences are by far the exception and not the rule.

      • 0 avatar
        DenverMike

        The PSD platforms had too many issues, to not start over from scratch. But destroyed engines are the exception, not the rule.

        The problems stemmed from hasty emissions designs, poorly executed. When ignored, small problems quickly become bigger problems that eventually lead to engine damage. And abuse increases the likelihood of small problems cropping up, exponentially.

        A bit of white smoke means you shut it down and call for a tow, even though it still runs perfectly good.

        This guy can explain it better than I ever could:

        youtube.com/watch?v=SgkmdLN8mD0

  • avatar
    jrmason

    The 6.0 Was pre emission and only ran EGR. That one engine cost Ford over a BILLION dollars in repairs. As far as the 6.4, you don’t scrap a good engine program due to a problematic emissions system. Every single one of the OEM’s struggled in the first few years including MD and HD engine manufacturers but nobody Else scrapped their engine platform. They tweaked the emissions and went on their way. I understand Ford wanted to build in house to save money and to be able to control and streamline the entire process from engineering to manufacturing to parts stocking and warranty handling and repairs but the fact of the matter is if they had a solid engine platform that the public was receptive to like GM and Ram have found in the Isuzu and Cummins they never would have ditched the Navistar engine.

  • avatar
    jrmason

    “A bit of white smoke means you shut it down and call for a tow, even though it still runs perfectly good.”

    I’m assuming you do this, and that is pretty dangerous for yourself and your passengers and anybody on the road around you. I’ll be darned if I’m going to stare at my tail pipe in the rear view mirror while I’m pulling my 14k pound trailer down the road. I check my fluids and tire pressure before I leave and I go. There’s enough to worry about on the road without watching for the color of my exhaust to change.

  • avatar
    DenverMike

    Besides the smell, white smoke or black tells you something has gone wrong, but drivers push it anyways.

    They don’t know, or don’t care. What happens down the road is always catastrophic.

    You can’t miss it. It’s more pronounced when simply accelerating or pulling a grade, than at idle, but it’s there too. You see the smoke in your mirrors. You’d have to be blind otherwise.

    Both the 6.0 and 6.4 can be awesome, reliable engines when deleting the emissions parts and tune, resulting in dramatically increased power and mpg. Never mind longevity.

    These were Navistar engines and it was time for Ford to cut all ties with Navistar, for obvious reasons.

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