By on April 29, 2014

texas

Toyota’s decision to shift sales operations to Texas has been the subject of much hand-wringing over the past few days, but the high-water mark for hate speech so far has come from Christie Schweinsberg at Ward’s Auto.

Quoth Mrs. Schweinsberg,

The news, first reported by Bloomberg, that Toyota will be moving many of its Southern California-based sales and marketing positions to Plano, TX, is shocking for a number of reasons.

The most obvious to me is this is an automaker that constantly preaches its commitment to the environment, taking a large chunk of jobs from what is one of the most eco-friendly states in the union to the U.S.’s equivalent of China…. If the No.1 Japanese automaker really did pull the plug on its Torrance operations for tax reasons, we’ll know what “green” status really counts in Toyota City.

It’s also possible that Toyota is moving away from California to reduce the impact that its water consumption is surely having on California’s water table, which is at its lowest point in recorded history. Alternately, perhaps Toyota wants to be closer to where they build trucks. What’s even less clear than Toyota’s reason for moving would be the decision on the part of the Ward’s editorial staff to openly denigrate both Texas and China by painting the latter as an environmental hellhole (which it may well be) and the former as its moral equivalent. Perhaps the best clue we’ll get comes from Mrs. Schweinsberg’s description of California elsewhere in the text:

an optimal environment to work and have fun

Tell that to the migrant workers who live beneath the poverty line inland while they destroy their bodies and health toiling in 120-degree weather… oh, who am I kidding! All of California is like Los Angeles! It’s an optimal environment to work and have fun!

California good, Texas baaaaaaaaad!

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236 Comments on “Ward’s Auto: Texas Is The American Equivalent Of China...”


  • avatar

    I lived in China for two years. Shanghai, Hang Zhou and SuZhou. The environment is so bad that as soon as I get off the plane I get sick immediately and stay sick for a week or two. My throat is burning and itching and I can’t sleep at night.

    I actually brought home water samples and did air sample tests as a project for my Environmental Studies project. It was bad.

    Everyone knows you can’t drink the water from the tap without boiling it – once I did and it tasted like sulfur.

    When I went to Japan I was absolutely amazed by the ability to drink tap water and how tasty it was.

    There are some Federal Regulations I appreciate, but there are many that I don’t/ don’t make sense. China is a country that absolutely should have EV because of the population density and other environmental factors ( they need to stop burning coal). But their lack of regulations is somewhat made up for by the totalitarian government putting forth regulations at will.

    Simply “moving” to get around state-level regulations takes work away from one place and moves it to another, but when you’re talking about protecting water reserves or air quality, it may be absolutely necessary.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I take it they couldn’t handle you?

    • 0 avatar
      NormSV650

      I heard they eat their trolls there.

    • 0 avatar
      gtrslngr

      Hold on a second there BigTruck ole bean ! One minute you’re making ludicrous claims that Global Warming in fact does not exist [ not to mention the misuse of the word anthropomorphize in your attempt to defend your ill informed claims ] …….

      …. and now you’re telling us you participated in Environmental Studies in the past and are in fact upset about the levels of pollution in Chinas largest cities ?

      Hmmm …. Something very hypocritical about this … Once again I might add BT . Very hypocritical indeed

      See .Therein lies the essence of the problem with you and your entire ilk . An extreme lack of consistency as well as the complete lack of ability to discern fact from fiction – conspiracy theory from actual news .. along with the unwillingness to actually read what you pretend to quote from rather than simply listening to the misquotes and out of context statements the small metal gods [ Beck Limbaugh etc ] you bow down before so willingly spread about so ‘ liberally ‘ [ pun intended ]

      As to the rest of your posts here ? An idiot wind blowing thru barely worth even considering … never mind commenting on

      • 0 avatar

        “and now you’re telling us you participated in Environmental Studies in the past and are in fact upset about the levels of pollution in Chinas largest cities ?”

        Pollution DOES NOT EQUAL “global warming”…

        Pollution DOES NOT EQUAL “climate change”

        I choose my words very carefully just so that when people like you take me out of context, I can easily return a simply reply completely making it appear as if you were so quick to criticize me – that you barely read what I wrote.

        THAT’S FOR PLAYING :)

        • 0 avatar

          (the editor disallowed me from editing)

          I choose my words very carefully just so that when people like you take me out of context, I can easily return a simple reply completely making it appear as if you were so quick to criticize me – that you barely read what I wrote.

          THANK’S FOR PLAYING :)

        • 0 avatar

          > Pollution DOES NOT EQUAL “climate change”
          > I’m just ahead of the curve.

          Consider the possibility that those ahead on the education curve are ahead on this, too.

          They just measure co2 in addition to particulate matter and know how to do math.

        • 0 avatar
          alsorl

          bigotruck.. then go back to china raise 3 children. one of them statistically will get cancer, then keep typing pollution does not equal climate change. Your chosen words don’t add up to your disagreement/denial of climate change.

          • 0 avatar
            drewtam

            Your response is arrogant and ignorant.

            First, the strawman: BT never said Chinese pollution wasn’t a problem. He said the opposite quite clearly.

            Second, BT is 100% correct. CO2 is in no way a toxic pollutant, even if the global warming theories were perfectly accurate, as its currently understood. You seem to lack knowledge of basic chemistry and what risks warming presents. I urge you to refrain from commenting on such things.

          • 0 avatar
            Jeff Weimer

            CO2 doesn’t cause cancer. Your response is a non-sequitir.

      • 0 avatar
        Superdessucke

        Hey, there’s the official position, and the position between the lines, if you know what I’m saying ;-)

      • 0 avatar
        Master Baiter

        “Hmmm …. Something very hypocritical about this … Once again I might add BT . Very hypocritical indeed…”

        I suppose it’s difficult to wrap your mind around the concept that some of us believe in real pollution and have seen it first hand in China, which simultaneously recognizing that CO2 is not a pollutant. It’s a difficult concept, I know. Try harder.

    • 0 avatar
      tatracitroensaab

      It’s ironic, then, that LA is the place with the smog. Not that Texas air quality is something to be too proud of, but….

    • 0 avatar
      TMA1

      I had the same experience when I was there two weeks ago. Eyes and throat burning, it was a miserable three days. Constantly chugging water to ease the burning. Determined to finally see the Bund, I took a taxi down there. I could barely see the buildings across the river through the haze of a Saturday afternoon. It took about 10 days before I was no longer feeling the effects of the air there.

      If the US had anything like that, I don’t think so many people would be calling for the death of the EPA.

      Other cities aren’t so bad. I spent a week in Ningbo, which is a huge city by American standards, and the air was much better there.

    • 0 avatar

      The level of air pollution in major chinese cities is indeed terrible. Days when you can’t see a quarter mile.

      the drought in Texas is as bad as that in California.

      All else equal, I’d certainly much rather live and work in California than Texas. But the cost of living is undoubtedly far from equal.

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      @Bigtruckreview
      I thought water was tasteless and ordourless.

      Your comment on Japanese water;

      “When I went to Japan I was absolutely amazed by the ability to drink tap water and how tasty it was.”

      Hmmmm…….WTF?

      • 0 avatar
        Wheeljack

        Water can be “tasty”…the house where I grew up in Colorado had well water from a aquifer over 100 ft. below the house. The water had relatively high mineral content (cleaning the shower head constantly was a joy) and definitely had more “flavor” than the city water here in SE Michigan.

      • 0 avatar

        I drank bottled soda and juice and tea for a very long time – rarely ever tap water.

        Tap water is supposedly better than bottled water because of dissolved minerals being available and the addition of chlorine/chloramine having anti-bacterial properties.

        When I got to Tokyo and had the tap water I FELL IN LOVE with WATER all over again.

    • 0 avatar
      thornmark

      According to Gallup, people appear to like living in TX a lot more than people like living in CA:
      http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/04/30/half-the-people-in-illinois-hate-living-in-illinois/

  • avatar
    APaGttH

    California is neither good nor bad.

    Texas is neither good nor bad.

    Patrick Henry is spinning in his grave.

    • 0 avatar

      I can guarantee pretty much all the discussion on this is going to be entirely misguided. The OP is obviously popcorn/troll post but the fact remains CA is the most valuable market west of the Miss. Such markets simply cost more to be in.

      On the other hand you have the peeps cheering on the fact those with the lowest costs will generally win in a race to the bottom.

      It’s the exact same dynamic as the US-china relationship. Neither are inherently good or bad but it’s not exactly honorable to be lower on the econ totem pole, nor take too much offense at the reality of the matter.

      • 0 avatar

        ^ also worth adding that Texans & friends should recall they also face the CA-TX totem relationship even within the US with the deep southern and flyover states (in addition to china of course).

      • 0 avatar
        TW5

        We haven’t measured economic prosperity by aggregate price level since the 1960s. Demand-pull inflation and aggregate rising price level are often attributable to supply-side inefficiency or consumer-reluctance to deal with scarcity. Rising prices are usually not a sign of efficient utilization of scarce resources.

        A big part of the Texas/California issue is real estate prices. Texas uses property tax to combat real estate scarcity, which is somewhat humorous considering the abundance of ordinary real estate and the lack of any valuable residential real estate, except the remote hill country and some remote Gulf Coast property. California coastal real estate and mountain real estate is extremely desirable and in short supply, yet California has Prop 13 which limits property taxes to 1% ad valorem, and prohibits property assessment during ownership. Prop 13 is exaggerating property shortage, suppressing tax revenues, inflating profits for legacy land-owners, and reducing labor mobility.

        I fail to see how poorly-conceived property tax policy in California is an indicator of Texas’ race to the bottom.

        • 0 avatar

          > I fail to see how poorly-conceived property tax policy in California is an indicator of Texas’ race to the bottom.

          “On the other hand you have the peeps cheering on the fact those with the lowest costs will generally win in a race to the bottom.”

          I’m pointing to the “TX pro business” chain mails apparently sent out today.

          If we’re to dig a bit deeper than state-level stereotypes, the intra-state demographics are similar: blue near the cities and red in the sticks. It just happens that there’s more city than stick in CA and vice versa in TX. Again, the same US-china/CA-TX dynamic plays here: some business relocates out of the city and it’s a “pro-business win” for sticks again I guess.

          If only all victims of gentrification could be so positive.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    This woman is disgusting, a pox on the Schweinsberg house.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      28, Don’t let her get to you. This is obviously a huge loss for CA but an even bigger win for Toyota and Toyota’s customers.

      And this is just one aspect of employers that is leaving the state of CA. The corporation my (former) son-in-law used to work for also left CA early LAST year, and he is still living on the CA taxpayer dole.

      It would be interesting to see how many other businesses in all industries leave CA in the coming years.

      I like to see more of them move to TX, AZ and NM.

      • 0 avatar
        dolorean

        All those states you’ve mentioned also have similar water problems. AZ is near dependant on Colorado water mostly from the river of the same name as is NM and TX from the Arkansas river and resulting tributaries. Moving to TX isn’t going to solve this quandry, its only going to allow Toyota to be a succubus on TX water supply.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          All you say is true. No argument there.

          But on the overall scheme of things this is a good win for TX and a loss for CA., in spite of the incentive that TX had to lay down to get Toyota to come out there. Just the spin-off benefits for the area because of this relocation will quickly rack up well into the millions of dollars to the good for Texas.

          I noticed that NY is doing much the same trying to get businesses from elsewhere to move to NY state. One incentive offered by NY to businesses who relocate there is “no taxes for ten years”, IIRC.

          That….. is no small thing. If you’ve ever been self-employed you know that the 90-day cycle of tax payments to the fed and state can rip the heart out of any business, and often does. It doesn’t matter to the fed or state if the business is making money or losing money, you pre-pay the anticipated taxes regardless every 90 days.

        • 0 avatar
          TOTitan

          Also CA has first rights to the river water before AZ and you can bet they will exercise that right. AZ is in a world of hurt on water supply. In Phoenix there is a road on the perimeter of Luke AFB that has sunk 5 meters from aquifer depletion http://www.imagingnotes.com/go/article_free.php?mp_id=16

        • 0 avatar
          George B

          A few thousand people relocating with Toyota is a minor water issue compared to the roughly 100k that move to the DFW area each year without the high profile announcement.

          The Dallas/Fort Worth area gets plenty of rain on average, but the amount of rain varies considerably from month-to-month and year-to-year with frequent droughts.

          http://www.srh.noaa.gov/fwd/?n=dmoprecip

          We have to collect the rain and store it in huge reservoirs. There are also water projects under construction to move water in from outside of the Trinity River basin.

    • 0 avatar
      Lie2me

      She’s a California snob who thinks the rest of the country is some 3rd world parasite. She’s appalled and offended that Toyota left her little Garden of Eden for what made total economic sense to Toyota. I’ve got news for you Mrs. Schweinsberg we don’t care what you and California think and my advice would be to change your business attitude or you’ll find Toyota is just the beginning of a mass corporate exodus from your lovely, but not worth the effort state

      • 0 avatar
        Kenmore

        “thinks the rest of the country is some 3rd world parasite”

        Eh.. I think “Bible Belt parasite” might be closer. Her ilk adores and defends anything 3rd world so long as it doesn’t make it into her gated community except as a craft item.

        Given her hoity-toitiness I keep imagining Eli Roth (“The Bear Jew”) drawling out “Frau Schweinsberg” in Brooklynese.

        • 0 avatar
          Lie2me

          … and we’re in the rust belt living on top of a glacier, it’s all 3rd world to her

        • 0 avatar

          > I think “Bible Belt parasite” might be closer. Her ilk adores and defends anything 3rd world so long as it doesn’t make it into her gated community except as a craft item.

          This is technically accurate. The Bible Belt sucks out a LOT more money than the 3rd world outside the US, then stabs her in the back politically to boot.

          I’m pretty sure even people in the Bible Belt know of family members like that.

          • 0 avatar
            jetcal1

            UMad,
            Nobody has been able to tell us if all this federal spending is on defense or infrastructure, or on social services. That would really skew the spending.

          • 0 avatar

            > UMad, Nobody has been able to tell us if all this federal spending is on defense or infrastructure, or on social services. That would really skew the spending.

            It’s generally irrelevant to someone in California the specific sort of pork whether infrastructure or military job bank.

            In theory some of it can be filed under necessity even if CA became its separate country, but for the most part a weapon factory or corn subsidy to shore up some jobs in the middle of nowhere is just a dole.

          • 0 avatar
            TW5

            It’s the opposite. The Bible Belt siphons enormous cash out of the Federal Government. They vote to give it back. The liberal coasts vote to force the Bible Belt to take the money because liberals need to maintain their minority constituency.

            Political drama in the US is a debauched form of entertainment.

          • 0 avatar

            > The Bible Belt siphons enormous cash out of the Federal Government. They vote to give it back. The liberal coasts vote to force the Bible Belt to take the money because liberals need to maintain their minority constituency.

            This is grade A stuff.

            Though unfortunately beltline senators who get voted in with talk of thrift still fight for their pork. Even within my state (and it’s surely universal) the red areas are fat with state irrigation projects while their constituents look to screw the blue parts with every initiative (you want city transportation? no!).

          • 0 avatar
            TW5

            True. The “conservative” politicians from the South know who butters their bread. They rarely push for tax cuts unless they’ve got another cash-siphon at the ready. Though you could also argue that certain types of entitlement reform, like guaranteed minimum income or negative income tax, could pay less money to the South, but still improve economic development.

          • 0 avatar
            jetcal1

            UBit
            I asked a reasonable question and you immediately associated all federal spending in the south as “pork”. I would be willing to bet that merely based on the number of elected representatives from California that the state receives far more in earmarks compared to the southern states overall. And I would happily further bet the majority of those earmarks could be construed as pork. But, if the defense spending or farm subsidies were providing jobs in California it would be different? So, if jet engines were built in California instead of Ohio or Massachusetts it would be okay? Even Bernie Sanders is suppprting the F-35 because he supports GE building engines in neighboring Massachusetts. And the F-35 has not exactly been a paragon of efficiency. Maybe we should build it in California.

          • 0 avatar

            > I would be willing to bet that merely based on the number of elected representatives from California that the state receives far more in earmarks compared to the southern states overall.

            I’m perfectly willing to admit CA get its pork. However it’s simply quantitative reality there’s a net outflux (MANY billions/yr) in federal tax revenue from CA and most coastal areas, and influx into the sticks.

            This is due to the fact that

            1. taxation is a fundamentally redistributive mechanism, money flows from wealthy (mostly blue) to poor (mostly red) areas
            2. senator allocation in congress (which all spending bills have to pass) is fundamentally biased against larger states, of which CA is the largest.

            CA gets its 1/50 senate pork, and so does nebraska.

            It’s not hard to figure out who paid more into that pot and got a lot less out of it.

          • 0 avatar
            jetcal1

            UMad,
            You seem to have issues with the rural parts of the states. May I please remind you that irrigation puts water in your glass and food on your plate?

          • 0 avatar
            dolorean

            “May I please remind you that irrigation puts water in your glass and food on your plate?”

            It does and doesn’t. Many states in the West including Nebraska, Western Kansas, Oklahoma, and Northern Texas get their water from the Ogallala Aquifer. According to wikipedia, about 27 percent of the irrigated land in the United States overlies the aquifer, which yields about 30 percent of the ground water used for irrigation in the United States. Much of this use is unregulated and with fracking becoming more De rigueur, increasingly polluted.

            Umad’s point is a valid one. The southern portion of the US gets the lion’s share of federal money, and yes, a bunch is in the form of defense spending, but it’s mostly pork. Being military for 22 years now (gawd I’m old) and in the logistics branch and proprietor of hundreds of gummint contracts, I can assure you that the military bases and the surrounding communities are well financed by the feds.

            But that’s not all. The federal gummint provided “more than $2 million in the past decade to produce and ship headstones honoring Confederate dead, often at the request of local Confederate heritage groups in the South, and overwhelmingly in Georgia” and best yet, according to the National Council of State Legislatures, Texas Governor Rick Perry signed a budget into law that used stimulus funds to fill almost 97 percent of the state’s budget gap, making the Lone Star State the most dependent on federal largesse of all the states in the NCSL report. Smells like bacon to me.

          • 0 avatar
            TheyBeRollin

            I think you might be surprised just how much of that tax revenue is the result of people in the flyover third world either coming to CA for vacation (huge industry) or buying things that moved through it.

            The peculiar tax code and subsidies also skew the tax revenue. People on the densely-populated coasts consume food produced in recipient regions of the country (and even their own states in many cases). Without the tax money, they’d just pay more at the store for the same goods but less in taxes.

            I’ve lived in both, though most of my life has been in CA, and it’s clear that people in urban regions of CA are ignorant of reality outside their bubble. In all three major metro areas in CA most are ignorant of areas 5+ miles away that aren’t along a freeway, let alone another state. To someone in West LA, the concept of warehouses in the SGV and IE are as foreign as a farmer in Iowa growing the organic wheat used to make the artisan bread for the $15 panini they had for lunch (for which was paid sales and income taxes, a tiny fraction of which will probably make it back to said farmer).

  • avatar
    Zackman

    Well, not only is California losing Toyota jobs, but so is northern KY, just a few miles from where I happily (ha-ha) commute 2 hours a day. Erlanger, KY is losing $1 million/year in tax revenue plus lots of engineering jobs.

    Just a mile from my work in Hebron is another Toyota facility. I’ll be interested to see how long they stick around.

  • avatar
    DeeDub

    I had no idea Toyota’s sales and finance offices were such water hogs. Bravo to them for making this bold water-saving move!

  • avatar
    Da Coyote

    Ms S: Just stay there in CA and rot…er…await the big one, then rot.

    Meaningwhile, just pay your ever increasing taxes, love your ever decreasing services, and get ready for blackouts granted to you by your scientifically illiterate politicians. Oh, forgot, enjoy that “high speed” train that’s just around the corner, and that’ll be done under budget.

    • 0 avatar
      OneAlpha

      You forgot a few things, like filing an insurance claim when your car is inevitable stolen or waking up in the hospital because some gangbanger shot you for making eye contact with him.

      From what I’ve heard, those things are as much a part of the Kalifornistan experience as going to the beach, sitting in traffic and getting the shits from the taco truck.

      • 0 avatar
        fvfvsix

        As a former Californian (and former Texan for that matter), I can certainly vouch for that :)

      • 0 avatar
        dolorean

        And yet, its still the 6th largest surplus economy in the world, its production per capita is monumental, its crime rate may be more attributable to its large population of many different ethnicities all mixing together with phonomenal growth quite like NYC in the mid to late 1800s, high level of education and a quality of life most states only dream about. It has it’s problems like other states so withhold your base derisions for Breitbart.

        There are plenty o’ gangbangers and good ole boys in Tejas that’ll shoot you for looking funny at them at the Taco Truck cafe. And the traffic is only slightly worse than that of Austin, Dallas-Ft. Worth, and San Antonio which is rapidly on the rise towards the terrible.

        • 0 avatar
          OneAlpha

          Hey, I’m not saying that those wonderful things are endemic to the West Coast, but the place IS rather infamous for’em.

        • 0 avatar
          geeber

          And GM was the largest automobile company in North America, and one of the top three in the world, when it went bankrupt and faced a break-up without a government bailout. You have to look at long-term trends to get an accurate idea of an organization’s – or a state’s – prospects.

      • 0 avatar
        jimmyy

        OneAlpha, what are you talking about? Metro Detroit is the dangerous place. Nothing like “Stand Your Ground”. What that means is every undereducated paranoid schizophrenic in Michigan has a gun legally, and is just itching to shoot. My guess is at least 25% of the population falls into this category … all it takes is making eye contact. Frankly, Metro Detroit scares the heck out of me … and I went to college at UM-AA in the 90s. I will take SoCal any day.

  • avatar
    Kenmore

    Hot damn, what timing!

    I just stocked up on Orville’s popcorn and butter-flavored oil. Clear the decks and the stovetop!

  • avatar
    OldandSlow

    The journalist at Ward’s may P.O.’d because she may have to fly into DFW versus LAX.

    I live in Austin – where we are not as green as California. The name China did rang a bell. Sure enough there is a China, Texas. It’s a small little burg just west of Beaumont on US 90.

    • 0 avatar
      Russycle

      Talkin’ bout your China Grove?

      • 0 avatar
        jhefner

        Nope, just China. Drove through that hamlet many times when I lived down there. Definitely a one light town.

      • 0 avatar
        Drzhivago138

        I can’t get into anything the Doobies did before Michael McDonald. Maybe it’s because everything before him gets (over)played on classic rock radio, and everything with him never gets played because classic rock=no coloreds allowed (except Hendrix). Yes, I know Mike is lily-white. But he sounds like a brother, and that’s apparently bad enough for a radio format that’s been essentially unchanged for 20 years.

        (No offense is meant by any of the slang of the preceding post. All offense is meant towards those who think that listening to the same thing every day is a good experience.)

        • 0 avatar
          bball40dtw

          I’m going to have to listen to “I Keep Forgettin’” now. Since “Regulate” and the “Above the Rim” soundtrack came out twenty years ago yesterday, it will be even more of a treat.

          • 0 avatar
            Drzhivago138

            On the McDonald-led albums, where about half of the songs were still in the earlier Doobies style, you can always tell if McDonald wrote the song or if it was someone else within the first few seconds: If it wasn’t Mike, it opened with a standard guitar playing regular D/C/G chords. If it was him, it’d be a synth or electric piano playing a C#maj7b9-13 chord in the left, and an Edim in the right.

          • 0 avatar
            Jack Baruth

            The opening to “Minute By Minute” is a murderer for cover musicians such as myself.

        • 0 avatar
          Lie2me

          “Mike is lily-white. But he sounds like a brother, and that’s apparently bad enough for a radio format that’s been essentially unchanged for 20 years.”

          Hmm, maybe he should hook-up with Darius Rucker, he seems to have the exact opposite problem

        • 0 avatar
          Loser

          “If I have to hear ‘Yamo Be There’ one more time, I’m going to ‘Yamo’ burn this place to the ground”

          • 0 avatar
            GeneralMalaise

            There was a stretch there in ’77 to ’79 when it seemed like McDonald was on every GD song on the radio. SCTV had a great skit about that.

            Things got so bad that I bought Little Feat’s “Time Loves A Hero” on vinyl, was groovin’ on “RedStream Liner” got to the chorus and there’s Michael McDonald… I took a hammer to it.

          • 0 avatar
            Drzhivago138

            “Such a long way to go!”

            “Peeeeeggggg!”

            “Broadway duchess, darling, if you only knew!”

            “Gooooing innnnnsaaaaaannnne!”

            “Any world that I’m welcome to!”

            “Get along, Kid Charlemagne!”

            Had enough yet?

      • 0 avatar

        China Grove, the most overrated guitar riff in all of rock history IMHO.

        • 0 avatar
          Lie2me

          Hmm, I didn’t know “Layla” had lost the crown

        • 0 avatar
          Kenmore

          “China Grove, the most overrated guitar riff in all of rock history IMHO”

          Awesome; I broke-off reading this yesterday before you posted. I was about to make exactly your comment but substituting underrated for overrated when I had to get up and go do stuff.

          I’ll bet you and I could have a long, enjoyable conversation about what constitutes worthwhile guitar playing including specific examples of performance, players, solo structures and gear. We could shoot an entire Saturday on that and end up good buds.

          And yet we’d still have polar opposite favorites. There really is no accounting for taste, even among close peers. For example, I’ve meet many highly intelligent, very discerning people who can actually stand Geddy Lee’s voice.

    • 0 avatar
      bball40dtw

      I’ve always had better experiences at DFW than LAX. At least at DFW, you don’t have to get on the Regional Jet bus.

  • avatar
    geeber

    Mrs. Schweinsburg missed the REAL reason Toyota is moving some operations from California to Texas.

    It must be easier to impale kittens and boil puppies in Texas than it is California. That is obviously the only reason any company would make such a move.

    • 0 avatar
      PBubel

      Who knew I lived in such an awful place?
      I’ll make sure to tell my Californian boss and his entire extended family that they chose poorly regarding an “optimal environment to work and have fun!”

      I mean, what they could they possibly know about that?

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        PBubel, all those people cashing out of CA and moving to NM are a real boon to the real estate business owned by my wife’s family.

        Having two kids and one grandkid who live and work in CA I have a pretty good idea what irks them. The “optimal environment to work and have fun!” you speak of does not offset the grief that is CA. Given the opportunity, many life-long CA residents are cashing out and leaving the state. Many already have. We got more than our share of them in NM. It’s getting downright crowded here.

        This should make people like you very happy! Fewer people on the freeways, less gridlock, and even higher taxes to look forward to.

  • avatar
    danio3834

    Sounds like a lot of other California residents we’ve been hearing from lately.

    “Why would you leave? There’s no good reason for anyone to leave! How dare you disrupt the groupthink that this is the best place to live at any cost!?”

    “Now to shame you into coming back…You sir, clearly hate the environment!!” (The worst thing you can say about someone in California).

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      Hell, just the taxation and other restrictions like those imposed by unions make everywhere else seem more attractive.

      All those people who want to stay and live in CA should be ecstatic. There will be more room for them and fewer cars on the freeways.

      • 0 avatar
        TOTitan

        We are. Dont let the door hit you on the ass on the way out!

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          TOTitan, I don’t live in CA. I was born in Huntington Beach but left in 1965 and found my nirvana elsewhere.

          But I do watch my kids and grandkid live the indignities of Southern California life: high taxation, high cost of living, traffic gridlock and overcrowding.

          We are extremely grateful for all the CA expatriates moving to NM because they are excellent for the real estate business of my wife’s family.

    • 0 avatar
      OneAlpha

      Kalifornis pride themselves on being cosmopolitan and sophisticated, and yet they think they live in not only the best, but the ONLY, place on earth.

      As if the rest of the continent is some Judge Dredd-style Cursed Earth, all the way to NYC.

      Provincialism at its finest.

      • 0 avatar
        morbo

        Mega City One is a fine place to be. Almost as nice as Mega City 2 was in the West Coast. Before the nuclear zombies and all.

        It was still better than Texas City One though.

      • 0 avatar
        fvfvsix

        “Kalifornis pride themselves on being cosmopolitan and sophisticated, and yet they think they live in not only the best, but the ONLY, place on earth.”

        And those folks’ maps clearly don’t include such salt-of-the-earth hamlets like Fresno, Modesto, and El Centro.

  • avatar
    slow_poke

    environmental hellhole, check. Got some friends living temporarily in Beijing and they regularly buy masks to ward off the incredible amount of smog. They’ve bought indoor HEPA filters so they at least don’t have to breath as much smog while they’re sleeping. i would never raise kids there.

    California, for all its other faults, has significantly stronger environmental laws than texas.

    And my working model of the environment is that the time constant to pollute is VASTLY faster then the time constant to CLEAN said area. this results to essentially a one-way ratchet. just gotta decide what you want to live in.

  • avatar
    otter

    “Hate speech” ? Really, Jack?

    • 0 avatar
      Speed3

      I think hate speech is a stretch. The article you identified is lame as we all know that the reason for the move is a lower cost of doing business. But why all the hate on California? Who cares?

      • 0 avatar
        05lgt

        > why all the hate
        Because it’s still the most populous, productive and richest state in the union, so being students of Machiavelli we must ally against it.

        • 0 avatar

          > Because it’s still the most populous, productive and richest state in the union, so being students of Machiavelli we must ally against it.

          Rather than cleverness, it’s better explained by the tall poppy syndrome. “Elitists think they’re better than us”.

          Can’t wait for the comedy once the deep south casts envious eyes & sour grapes towards Texas.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            Yeah, we’re just jealous, that’s it

          • 0 avatar
            TMA1

            Man, that’s the second time this week you’ve brought that up. Did someone hyperlink you to the Wikipedia page or something?

          • 0 avatar

            > Yeah, we’re just jealous, that’s it

            Quite obvious given the #1 problem cited is the price (taxes merely a form of it).

            But really all this fuss is because CA is the demon in GOP’s bible thumping.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            He’s a tall poppy and just wants to make sure we all know it

          • 0 avatar

            > Man, that’s the second time this week you’ve brought that up. Did someone hyperlink you to the Wikipedia page or something?

            I’m quite flattered you commit my every remark to memory. If space is an issue the problem likely lies with trying to remember too many minor variations of the same GOP talking point posted here.

            They all come from the same place so all you have to remember is “CA bad because taxes, Texas gooder”, and just do word substitution like taxes=socialism=gubmint later.

  • avatar
    Scott_314

    Pollution in China has reached an absurd level that would be comical if it weren’t so disgusting. It’s seasonal, so you might get a good day, but if you get one of the worst days it will ruin your trip to the point of stopping whatever it is you’re doing and leaving China.

    In fact the government has proven so inept and corrupt at controlling it, that China looks like a 3rd rate power about as threatening to the USA’s dominance as Zimbabwe.

    Anyway, I wouldn’t give this person the time of day.

  • avatar
    gtrslngr

    I’m not sure what in the heck all the fuss is about when it comes to Toyota finally wising up – leaving CA and moving elsewhere . Almost anywhere for that matter .

    Simple fact is …. the Cost of Doing Business in California despite any tax breaks , subsidies and incentives CA may provide [ to some ] is ludicrously high in comparison to most of the lower 48 . Between energy costs .. the higher salaries needed to attract and keep good people etc the cost of doing business there [ any business ] rises by the minute . With yearly costs constantly on the increase as well

    Simple fact is …. [ including for Hollywood and the Entertainment Industry ] ….. California is pricing itself right out of the market for any business to consider locating/conducting business there .

    Simple fact is … Business is Business and under the current climate they’ve chosen to be in California has chosen not to BE in the Business of attracting/keeping Business

    And thems the facts . Plain & Simple . So much so I’m betting even BT can comprehend them … ;-)

  • avatar
    Russycle

    Hopefully no one will decide to build a fertilizer factory next to Toyota’s new digs. Didn’t work out so well for West, TX.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      The West, TX, explosion was due to negligence or other human error, IIRC. That can happen anywhere, and it has!

      • 0 avatar
        dolorean

        highdesertcat, you are correct that the massive explosion was caused by negligence of the factory ownership of piling highly volatile ammonium nitrate without precaution, human error in ignorance of the explosive potential of the NH4NO3 load, and near zero state regulation of 1) inspection of factory fertilizer plants to ensure such things do not happen and 2) sprinkler systems that the rest of the country seems to have in all facilities as part of state law, but not TX. Regulations are not there to “get in the way” and “stamp upon the throat of ‘Murican freedom!”; they’re there to protect the public from greed, malice, incompetence, ignorance and misjudgment. IOW to protect us from ourselves.

        • 0 avatar
          jetcal1

          Yeah, like the refinery fires in Il. The fact of the matter is quite simple, California has swung the pendulum too far one way and the pendulum has gone too far the other way in Texas.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            But between these two extremes…. Toyota and many other individuals have chosen the extreme that is TX over CA. For individuals, one reason is tops: no state income tax in TX and the American Dream is still attainable.

        • 0 avatar
          jhefner

          “… sprinkler systems that the rest of the country seems to have in all facilities as part of state law, but not TX. Regulations are not there to “get in the way” and “stamp upon the throat of ‘Murican freedom!”; they’re there to protect the public from greed, malice, incompetence, ignorance and misjudgment. IOW to protect us from ourselves.”

          We ARE talking about Ammonium Nitrate, aren’t we? In which case, the worst possible thing you can do is spray water on it; as the firefighters fighting the fertilizer fire onboard a ship in Texas City found out; and nearly the entire town paid for their mistake.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_City_disaster

          • 0 avatar
            dolorean

            Firstly, the local fire department was unaware the plant had ammonium nitrate in mass quantities that was involved in the fire. According to FauxNews, “Investigators said the firefighters who rushed to an initial fire at the plant didn’t know enough about the dangers they faced inside: 40 to 60 tons of ammonium nitrate, a chemical used in fertilizer that detonated due to the blaze.” It wasn’t labeled properly as per fed guidelines and wasn’t registered with the state, and local gov’t because TX regulation is rather lax and big business there fights Fed restrictions like Mel Gibson on a bender.

            Secondly, the fire STARTED as “three possible causes: a golf cart battery, an electrical system (malfunction) or a criminal act”. Any or all of these were not in the vicinity of the ammonium nitrate and proper fire safety implementation would’ve prevented the fire from getting out of control.

            ‘http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/04/22/texas-fertilizer-plant-explosion-new-laws-needed-feds-say/’

    • 0 avatar
      fvfvsix

      @Russ – and, your point is? The stuff has to be made somewhere, and people have to work at the factories that make it. I know it’s considered a costal American rite of passage to assume that we can just import things we need but are too chickensh!t to manufacture from countries that house “the world’s poor”. But that ain’t how it really works.

  • avatar
    Kenmore

    Not nieder uh dem places can you ice fish so I don’ care, eh?

  • avatar
    shelvis

    No, no Toyota apologists click baiting here.

  • avatar
    OneAlpha

    “…one of the most eco-friendly states in the union.”

    Yes, and one of the most human-unfriendly.

    I never understood this notion of being “environmentally friendly.” Remember, this is the same environment that tries to kill human beings every chance it gets. It’s anything but friendly to us.

    Human beings are not animals – we can’t live naked under the open sky using nothing but our fingernails and teeth. We had to invent fire, clothing, buildings, medicine, weapons, tools, water purification and a host of other things just to live.

    These days, “environmental friendliness” is just code for “antibusiness,” which is the real reason Toyota’s loaded up the moving vans. They’ll hemorrhage far less operational cash in Texas.

    More power to ‘em.

    • 0 avatar
      Matt Foley

      Exactly right, OneAlpha. Kudos to you, sir.

    • 0 avatar
      Master Baiter

      +1

    • 0 avatar
      darkwing

      “Oooh, so Mother Nature needs a favor?! Well maybe she should have thought of that when she was besetting us with droughts and floods and poison monkeys! Nature started the fight for survival, and now she wants to quit because she’s losing. Well I say, hard cheese.”

      • 0 avatar
        OneAlpha

        We humans are physically fragile creatures. We don’t have natural armor, weapons, speed or strength. What we do have is the most formidable weapons system in existence, and we need it to survive in an environment that is actively hostile toward us.

        The human being is essentially the most powerful computer ever created, housed in the most capable all-terrain vehicle ever devised. As far as we know, officially, humans are the most advanced and powerful living creatures in the entire universe.

        We have every right to use the available natural resources of that universe to make our lives better.

        That being said, with that status comes the responsibility to not be wasteful and wantonly destructive.

        Stewardship of the natural world in one thing, and we should practice it.

        What Kalifornistan does is use stewardship as an excuse to attack the practical methodologies (industry, trade and technological development) by which people improve their lives and civilization as a whole.

        That’s why people leave.

        • 0 avatar
          05lgt

          Umm, but bipedal primates with small brains survived and thrived for a very very long time. Or maybe the fossils are lying, there’s always that out if your philosophy doesn’t end up supported by evidence.

      • 0 avatar
        TMA1

        Haha Darkwing, I was going to say the same thing!

  • avatar
    Volt 230

    This lady’s liberal beliefs are clouding her ability to see things the way they are, it’s simple, Cali is an ultra-liberal state, Texas is the absolute opposite, period.

    • 0 avatar
      fvfvsix

      Not so fast… Texas is a great state, no doubt about that. However, the politicians in both states are the same shade of “control freak”. In my opinion, places like Arizona are what Texas thinks it sees when it looks in the mirror every morning.

  • avatar
    fredtal

    Here is a better balanced report of the difference between California and Texas,
    http://www.texastribune.org/2014/04/29/texas-touts-lighter-regs-wooing-california-firms/

  • avatar
    Jeff Waingrow

    Might we begin an intelligent conversation by first recognizing that both Texas and California are enormous places. It’s pretty hard to generalize about that amount of real estate. Both states have their problems. Neither is an exemplar of environmental stewardship, but perhaps for different reasons. California has been a socially more progressive state, yet it’s treatment of migrant workers, as Jack has mentioned, is abysmal. Texas has its own liabilities, and no need to list them here. But here’s the thing: companies move for lots of different reasons not always connected to lax environmental protections and woeful worker protections. So it’s hard to judge from afar. Yet you can be sure of one thing, which is that the welfare of the workers and the state they live in and the country it all happens in is of little or no regard to most international companies. So when a company says that they’re coming to your part of the woods, kindly remember that it could easily turn into a big-time mixed blessing, the unforeseen results of which may linger long after said company sets out for other parts.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    From now on we can compare the quality of Toyota cars pre-move vs after-move.

  • avatar
    carrya1911

    It’s a culture thing. Moving to Texas from California is just, well, gauche. If it isn’t Manhattan, LA, or San Francisco (maybe a nice cabin outside Denver or Jackson Hole for the skiing) then it’s really a step down.

    It’s a cultural faux pas not quite as severe as using the N word inappropriately (Jay Z can use it appropriately), but pretty close.

    • 0 avatar
      jimmyy

      Actually, if it isn’t Manhattan, LA, San Francisco, Seattle, or Boston, then it’s really a step down. You forgot Seattle and Boston.

      By the way, the cabin needs to be in Vale.

      • 0 avatar
        elimgarak

        Seattle is still looked at as being a pretty provincial city even though it has a lot going for it. It is definitely not in the cultural elite class of SF, Manhattan, NW-DC, west la, boston.

        I think seattle is the best blend between urban living, a libertarian streak (no state income tax, shall issue guns, legal weed), multicultural environment, forward looking companies, but not the elitism of the towns i mentioned above.

    • 0 avatar
      TheyBeRollin

      From Torrance? I don’t think you’ve ever been to the South Bay. The area is little more than a congested suburb of Los Angeles, particularly where they are just off the 405. Moving to a nice suburb of Dallas with lighter traffic is only a step down if you must be close to the ocean or someone/something in that area. They don’t do any manufacturing there, so I don’t see why they’d need to be there.

  • avatar

    > What’s even less clear than Toyota’s reason for moving would be the decision on the part of the Ward’s editorial staff to openly denigrate both Texas and China by painting the latter as an environmental hellhole (which it may well be) and the former as its moral equivalent.

    In the economic sense the argument is largely true. Getting the prices/profits from rich areas while the costs from poorer ones is one of the fundamental econ strategic loopholes. The same sort of free-trade globalization spoken of between countries is just a larger version of what happens within them.

    Incidentally I wrote this before seeing the article:

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/04/details-on-toyota-north-american-reorganization-california-kentucky-lose-texas-michigan-gain/#comment-3168498

  • avatar
    daviel

    “optimal environment to work and have fun!” is that why Toyota started in CA? Toyota is a business. Now Toyota moves to Texas where it is an optimal environment to run a business. Low taxes, less state regulation, no state income tax, right to work state – no unions, incentives from the state, lower cost of living, affordable housing, less smog, plenty of recreation both indoors and outdoors. Higher speed limits, I almost forgot. That’s right Toyota, “you’re not from Texas, but Texas loves you anyway.”

  • avatar
    pentek

    I live in CA and it is ok although not business friendly.

    The founding fathers set up the States to compete against each other using whatever natural advantages they have. We will see what happens to CA in the long run.

    The chart provided here provides some insight down to the county level.
    http://www.howmoneywalks.com/irs-tax-migration/ (it loads slow)

  • avatar
    thegamper

    I really see it as a financial move on Toyota’s part. Cheaper to do business in Texas, cheaper land, cheaper utilities (probably) and perhaps they consider California “conquered” since Toyota vehicles are so popular there already. Why not move into an area with a large population that you can really try to steal from your competitors while saving money in the process.

  • avatar
    rdchappell

    Nobody is talking about the fact that the state of Texas gave Toyota 40 million dollars just to move there.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      Source?

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        Texas to pay $10,000 for each Toyota job relocated

        The sweeping reorganization is part of a larger effort by Toyota to cut costs and run its North American business as a cohesive operation. Until last year, its sales and marketing, manufacturing and research and engineering were distinct units with their own headquarters and top executives.

        Toyota has been hunting for a new headquarters that would accommodate its three now separate business units, people familiar with the matter said. The California operations were too far from most of the company’s other U.S. business units.

        Toyota narrowed its city locations to Denver, Charlotte and Atlanta, before choosing Texas, which offered a rich incentive package to lure Toyota, the people said.

        http://www.marketwatch.com/story/texas-to-pay-10000-for-each-toyota-job-relocated-2014-04-28
        _______________

        If it is like other similar packages, then I would presume that only some of it is actual cash, and much of the rest of it is in the form of tax breaks.

    • 0 avatar
      Lie2me

      It doesn’t matter Texas was interested in their business and put their money where their mouth is. What did California do to keep Toyota, zip

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        When California does similar things, the usual suspects cry “socialism!”

        These topics are just magnets for right-wingers who want to superimpose their political hysteria over what was a business decision. The discussion is largely unproductive and grounded in a whole lot of bile, and not much else.

        As noted in the article above, this is part of an overall consolidation of a lot of the back office functions of the business, which are best done in a location that can support middle-class white-collar jobs, which is close to other company operations, and that has access to a hub airport.

        California can’t provide any of that, but for the hub airport. It’s far from the company’s other operations, and the housing costs are too high to attract thousands of workers who earn modest salaries. (It’s not as if the state is going to build thousands of subsidized tract homes for Toyota workers.) For that matter, there isn’t much room in Torrance to develop the massive facility that will be needed for that consolidation, as the area is already built up.

      • 0 avatar

        > It doesn’t matter Texas was interested in their business and put their money where their mouth is. What did California do to keep Toyota, zip

        Desirable stores don’t need as many discounts and free-money incentives to get people to shop.

        No gold stars for observing which stores around the country are most desperate to slash prices while on the federal dole in the back.

  • avatar
    Frankie the Hollywood Scum

    According to Sperling, the cost of living in Torrance is 105% more expensive than nearby Dallas.

    I bet a lot of folks would like a 105% pay raise.

  • avatar
    bunkie

    Moving a large organization doesn’t happen without significant costs, both direct and indirect. I’m sure Toyota management has done the math, but it will be a long time before they realize all the cost savings.

    And, despite what so many seem to wish for, high-cost locations will remain popular and, for many firms, better places to do business because of the higher opportunity costs in so-called “low-cost” locations. Fifteen years in Manhattan has taught me that firms are willing to pay the high salaries and taxes here because they can’t find the deep talent pool in places like Texas. Yes, certain lower-function positions have been outsourced to other states but the best jobs have not been.

    Personally, I’d love to move somewhere quieter but with my skill set, the trade offs are too great. The primary one is that there is a much narrower availability of jobs. I, for one, will never work in a company town as the risk of them deciding to go elsewhere is too great given the race to the bottom that is so en vogue these days.

    • 0 avatar
      jetcal1

      Bunkie,
      Different skill sets perhaps? I doubt there are many aeronautical engineers in NYC. Just as I doubt there are many top shelf advertising agencies or theatrical talent in Plano

      • 0 avatar
        bunkie

        And that’s my point. There’s an inevitable talent drain that occurs when firms make major moves such as this. One of my biggest criticisms of modern business thinking is that people aren’t as fungible as it is believed. In February of last year, I was laid off as part of one of those grand actions taken by the incoming CEO. In this case it was a mandate to reduce global workforce by 10%. I got a very big buyout, took a few months off and then went right back to work for a competitor. It took me over a year to learn the systems at my former employer and all of that investment in my knowledge was wasted. And, just as I predicted, they are hiring to fill many of those positions. It’s a giant waste. My phone rings daily with recruiters chasing me to apply for jobs. Just today I got an offer from yet another competitor of my former employer.

        Sadly, there used to be quite a few aeronautical engineers in New York. I grew up on Long Island and I despise the way that the aviation history has largely been erased from memory. Roosevelt Field is a mall, Grumman, Republic and Fairchild are all gone and no one seems to care. Ironically, I took my first flying lesson at Republic Airport not long before I was laid off.

        • 0 avatar
          pb35

          Yeah Bunkie, I grew up on LI too and my first professional job was in the defense industry. I could see the writing on the wall that jobs were drying up and asked my boss to lay me off (thus saving someone else’s job) so I could follow my girl to Detroit in 1993. They obliged and off I went for the first time. The company I worked for eventually picked up and moved to Alabama. Talk about dodging a bullet! I’ll take the Motor City over anywhere in Alabama. Detroit was booming at the time and there weren’t enough hours in the day to complete my work at an automotive supplier. When my wife finished her PhD, back to NY went, this time to Manhattan for her first academic post. Having grown up in the area, we knew that living in the city had a shelf life of about 5 years and we stayed for 7.

          We’re now comfortably living in Austin and I believe this will be our last stop. Texas is a great place to live if you can make it through the summers and you don’t mind not being near the water (I don’t mind).

          I think it’s sad too that the aviation history of LI is largely forgotten. The defense contractor that I worked for was in Melville and I spend many a happy hour at the 56th Fighter Group.

  • avatar
    -Nate

    Damn ! .

    All this hate , intolerance and ignorance .

    TEXAS is a great place , I love to visit there .

    California is a good place to live work and play , I live and work here now .

    Unless you live in either place you have little right to criticize either , both are good places full of nice folks .

    I spend much time in junkyards in both states , both are part and parcel of The Auto Trade and I don’t want them to go away .

    -Nate

    • 0 avatar
      Lie2me

      I think we’re criticizing the woman and her better then everybody else attitude. She was acting like she was speaking for California, so prepare for a little fallout collateral damage, nothing personal

      • 0 avatar
        TheyBeRollin

        That mentality is common in CA and surprisingly it is most common among transplants. When I quit my job in San Diego to move to Washington State (better weather for my pasty-whiteness), my manager was horrified at the concept of leaving the area, telling me it was a huge mistake to leave the sweltering heat (not as bad as LA, but over 5 miles inland will suck anywhere in SoCal, and contrary to common belief, only the first mile or so inland has good weather, and unless you want to live where there’s no parking and drunken partiers all night every night, you need at least 5x the median family income in CA to live that close to the coast) and high taxes for somewhere with trees, cooler weather, rain, berries, and mushrooms (all but a few of my favorite things). He was originally from somewhere in flyover country and services his mortgage debt on a house that is over a quarter of a million underwater in inland North County (just across the border from the IE) and commutes 120 miles a day in traffic to keep it up.

        I was born and grew up in SoCal. The premium to live there in both time and money is extremely high when you consider what you can have or get elsewhere.

  • avatar
    jkross22

    I lived in Dallas for 5 years and got relocated to the Los Angeles area in 2000 and have been here since.

    Dallas is a MUCH better place to be on the whole. California is wonderfully beautiful, has a great climate along the coastal areas and has lots to do, but the economic reality of life in CA is not a good one.

    Schools in the Los Angeles area are not good, the tax burden in TX is MUCH lower for average people, the salary gap that exists between affordable housing in CA and what people earn should be a source of embarrassment but it’s not, and even CA’s main industry, entertainment creation, looks for ways to save a buck and film out of state.

    CA has lost a lot of jobs over the last 20 years. Moreover, the jobs that are coming here are low wage roles in service industries. The tax base has been eroding ever since aerospace moved thousands of jobs out of the state in the early 90′s and moves by companies like Toyota, Nissan, eBay, Intel, Apple and others to expand or move out of state have exacerbated the problem.

    Unfortunately, if a job is considered ‘dirty’ or in the parlance popular out here now, ‘not green’, the value of the job is diminished in the eyes of politicians.

    It’s a sad state of affairs for the state. No company’s departure better explains CA’s woes than does the departure of Campbell’s in N. Cal. Campbells determined that its cheaper for them to grow tomatoes for their soup in CA, load them on trucks and drive them across the country than it was to update the existing plant in CA.

    http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2012/09/27/campbell-soup-is-shutting-down-sacramento-plant/

    In many ways, the state’s leaders don’t believe they have to compete for companies to stay. That people will simply continue to come here for jobs that no longer are here.

  • avatar
    raresleeper

    I’m looking forward to the…

    (best game show host voiceover) “Trademarked Stetson Hat Rack option, coming soon, in all Toyota models!!!!”

    “Ohhh, what a feeling!!”

    Now, the question of the hour:

    Where will the gun rack go in the new Camry?

  • avatar
    thornmark

    This company too:
    Lawmaker: San Antonio at top of list for Sriracha factory
    http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/Lawmaker-San-Antonio-at-top-of-list-for-Sriracha-5438609.php

    btw, for those who didn’t think CA has a corruption problem this leading SFran-based CA State Senator and candidate for statewide office offered to smuggle arms to Islamic rebels in return for $2million.
    http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/08/us/california-senator-indicted/

    And he’s a gun control guy sending out this flyer:
    The Buzz: Arriving now in the mailboxes of more than 10.6 million California voter households: Sen. Leland Yee’s pledge to fight corruption.

    http://www.sacbee.com/2014/04/27/6358388/the-buzz-leland-yee-promises-to.html#storylink=cpy

    More here:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/felony-allegations-cost-democrats-in-california-senate-their-supermajority/2014/03/03/3fa60716-a2ed-11e3-8466-d34c451760b9_story.html

  • avatar
    TW5

    The author has clearly fallen victim to California’s charming marketing rhetoric, though it may be partially understandable, given his profession.

    In reality, the greenest state in the nation is Maine. All of their consumption can be replaced with renewable production. California is ranked 25th in green energy, according to energy.gov, behind such green energy empires as South Dakota, Tennessee, and Missouri. California’s “green” energy policy is actually just conservation, not high-technology renewables; therefore, California is amongst the least energy-consumptive states (per capita) in commercial and industrial segments. However, Texas produces about 500% more energy than California so it’s not exactly a fair comparison. Texas and California are both relatively frugal when it comes to residential energy consumption per capita, which is surprising given the Texas climate and low energy costs.

    Transportation is the one segment where California demonstrates superior performance compared to Texas. Both states are car-dominant cultures with vast distances between urban areas and low-access to public transportation for commuting. Texans use about 30% more energy to move from A to B, which is almost certainly attributable to Texas’ love of trucks and SUVs, compared to California’s love of frugal hybrids and small cars. However, it is important to point out that both Texas and California consume at a high rate compared to Northeastern states with public transit systems.

    The author works in the automotive industry. Perhaps this explains his embellishment of California’s achievements and his denigration of Texas.

    • 0 avatar
      thornmark

      CA is building the train to nowhere which is nothing but a boondoggle for special interests. That’s despite violating the terms of the state initiative.

      Oh, and public opinion no longer supports that waste of money now that they know that they were hoodwinked. It’s not betw/ LA and SF and it’s not high-speed.

      Future of California’s multi-billion dollar ‘bullet train’ becomes election issue for Dems with reelection challenge
      http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/15/future-california-multi-billion-dollar-bullet-train-becomes-election-issue-for/

      • 0 avatar
        TW5

        I’ve always had a soft spot for bullet trains, but that’s probably because I hate flying. Texas is the perfect location for high-speed rail, but Southwest has been blocking it for years. Sad. They should hedge against oil prices with electric rail.

        Anyway, troubling to hear of California’s tribulations.

    • 0 avatar
      TW5

      “…though it may be partially understandable, given HER profession…….perhaps this explains HER embellishment”

      Wires crossed somewhere while doing a bit of research. Apologies to the original author.

  • avatar
    dartman

    A Californian moves to Texas — Good Luck with That!

    From his diary-Here’s what you have to look forward to…

    Dear Diary-

    Just moved to Texas ! Now this is a state that knows how to live!! Beautiful sunny days and warm balmy evenings. It is beautiful. I’ve finally found my home. I love it here.
    June 14th:
    Really heating up. Got to 100 today. Not a problem. Live in an air-conditioned home, drive an air-conditioned car. What a pleasure to see the sun everyday like this. I’m turning into a sun worshiper.
    June 30th:
    Had the backyard landscaped with western plants today. Lots of cactus and rocks. What a breeze to maintain. No more mowing the lawn for me. Another scorcher today, but I love it here.
    July 10th:
    The temperature hasn’t been below 100 all week. How do people get used to this kind of heat? At least, it’s kind of windy though. But getting used to the heat is taking longer than I expected.
    July 15th:
    Fell asleep by the community pool. (Got 3rd degree burns over 60% of my body). Missed 3 days of work. What a dumb thing to do. I learned my lesson though. Got to respect the ol’ sun in a climate like this.
    July 20th:
    I missed Lomita (my cat) sneaking into the car when I left this morning. By the time I got to the hot car at noon, Lomita had died and swollen up to the size of a shopping bag, then popped like a water balloon. The car now smells like Kibbles and Shits. I learned my lesson though. No more pets in this heat. Good ol’ Mr. Sun strikes again.
    July 25th:
    The wind sucks. It feels like a giant freaking blow dryer!! And it’s hot as hell. The home air-conditioner is on the fritz and the AC repairman charged $200 just to drive by and tell me he needed to order parts.
    July 30th:
    Been sleeping outside on the patio for 3 nights now, $225,000 house and I can’t even go inside. Lomita is the lucky one. Why did I ever come here?
    Aug. 4th:
    It’s 115 degrees. Finally got the air-conditioner fixed today. It cost $500 and gets the temperature down to 85. I hate this stupid state.
    Aug. 8th:
    If another wise ass cracks, ‘Hot enough for you today?’ I’m going to strangle him. Damn heat. By the time I get to work, the radiator is boiling over, my clothes are soaking wet, and I smell like baked cat!!
    Aug. 9th:
    Tried to run some errands after work. Wore shorts, and when sat on the seats in the car, I thought my ass was on fire. My skin melted to the seat. I lost 2 layers of flesh and all the hair on the back of my legs and ass . . . Now my car smells like burnt hair, fried ass, and baked cat.
    Aug 10th:
    The weather report might as well be a damn recording. Hot and sunny. Hot and sunny. Hot and sunny. It’s been too hot to do shit for 2 damn months and the weatherman says it might really warm up next week. Doesn’t it ever rain in this damn state? Water rationing will be next, so my $1700 worth of cactus will just dry up and blow over. Even the cactus can’t live in this damn heat.
    Aug. 14th:
    Welcome to HELL! Temperature got to 115 today. Cactus are dead.
    Forgot to crack the window and blew the damn windshield out of the car. The installer came to fix it and guess what he asked me??? “Hot enough for you today?” My sister had to spend $1,500 to bail me out of jail. Freaking Texas . What kind of a sick demented idiot would want to live here??

    Will write later to let you know how the trial goes.

  • avatar

    While most of the attention has focused on California losing jobs and Texas gaining them, and on the impact on northern Kentucky by moving people out of Erlanger, not much attention has been devoted to the fact that at least 250 of those Kentucky jobs are moving to Michigan. Who wants to move a business to the rust belt? Apparently there are still some advantages to locating a business near Detroit.

    Toyota seems to be very comfortable with southeastern Michigan. They have their big R&D center near Ann Arbor, a smaller technical center in Plymouth, and their keiretsu partner Aisin has a test track in Fowlerville. Toyota even staged their Hybrid World Tour in Ypsilanti, flying journalists in from around the world.

  • avatar
    cmus

    effing left coast!

    (Greetings from Plano, TX) :)

  • avatar
    Mandalorian

    I have no sympathy for Cal. If you make it to expensive too do business, businesses will leave. It’s the same way I feel towards Best Buy and Amazon.com. Why pay $19.99 +tax for a DVD in the store when I can get it on Amazon for $7.99 no tax and free shipping?

  • avatar
    ajla

    EVERYWHERE IS TERRIBLE!!!

  • avatar
    skor

    Taxes are only part of the reason for the move to Texas. Not all the current employees will be offered the option of moving. This gives the company an opportunity to cut out the dead wood and bring in some new talent. Since Texas has a lower cost of living, most of the people who are offered a chance to move will be paid less, as will most of the new hires.

    As for the move to Michigan, that’s really not surprising. Despite the auto meltdown of a few years ago, there are still hundreds of suppliers located in Michigan. I’m sure there is a cost advantage to having engineering and R&D facilities near the suppliers.

    The interesting thing is that 4 of the top selling new vehicles in California are Toyota models, but only one Toyota model shows up on the top 10 list in Texas….the Ford F150 is #1 in Texas.

    • 0 avatar
      Prado

      It is somewhat ironic because Toyota’s sales success/dominance in California is driven by expensive gas, which is extra expensive in California, where the tax is the highest in the nation at 72 cents a gallon.

  • avatar
    Jan Bayus

    25 Million and 10k per job sounds like a good deal for Toyota and not too good for the Texas taxpayer.

    • 0 avatar
      Jack Baruth

      They’ll have their money back in three years, tops, and then it’s all gravy.

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        Oh, and then some! In three years it’s no longer gravy. It’ll be dessert, as in icing on the cake.

      • 0 avatar
        Jeff Waingrow

        Jack, does the money back in three years include the enormous bond issues for infrastructure that these corporate incursions typically involve? It may look good in the short term, but the bonds can go out for decades and are an economic drag for the long term. The citizenry doesn’t always make this part of their calculus, and politicians in it for their own advantage are usually loathe to point out what may be waiting down the road.

  • avatar
    Steve65

    Here’s some boots on the ground “business friendly” thinking:

    “Last year, the Department of Transportation unpaved some rural roads because it couldn’t afford to repair pockmarks left by oilfield-related traffic.”

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/boom-time-in-texas–jobs–traffic–water-worries-143250407.html

    So, rather than pass the costs of repair along to the most profitable industry in the history of the planet that did the damage, just tear up the road and to hell with the people who live there. Because really, who needs pavement when there’s oil giants to subsidize?

  • avatar
    danio3834

    Silly. Everyone knows that Mexico is the American China.

  • avatar
    Xeranar

    Jack Baruth, shark jumper for the right-wing. I’m honestly intrigued how the right manages to play this game with themselves where they oscillate between nationalist rhetoric about China and then turn around and love them in some quasi-corporate love affair. Yet they ignore the dormitory-style near-slave labor factories where yearly salaries hover around 2K or the ultra-destructive environmental record they have. Sure they have a large economy because they willingly forgo any kind of safety inspections, control all labor by force (something this crowd surely loves), and keeps private ownership to a minimum so that the state and the oligarchs on top hold most of the power.

    Texas is the moral equivalent and without that natural resource wealth wouldn’t have nearly the economy they claim to have. The state really relies on oil more than anything else, their economy looks more like Saudi Arabia than New York, Pennsylvania, or California. The fact that Baruth points towards California’s Migrant labor workforce as an excuse to claim moral superiority is lost the second you look at Texas’ cotton fields or even their slums and poverty-level minimum wage jobs. The reality is the system is broken and the journalist as Ward’s acknowledges that Toyota’s lip service to the environment fell short when they decided to leave a more progressive state for a regressive one. Baruth’s write up is a case of sour grapes from a right-wing journalist who likes to complain to his right-wing audience.

    The best part is though is that as all these people move to Texas they bring their progressive politics with them. The biggest growing population centers in Texas are the blue urban centers, within 6-10 years Texas will be in play for the presidential election and probably sooner in terms of state politics. The days of Texas’ right-wing policies on corporate power are numbered.

    • 0 avatar
      redav

      LOL

    • 0 avatar
      geeber

      From your characterization of Texas (and the South in general), it’s painfully apparent that you have never actually been there.

      And then there was your unintentionally hilarious assertion that a $500-1,000 difference in monthly costs is not a big deal to people making $96,000 or more a year. This proves that you don’t know much about budgeting, or the expenses that come with a wife and children. (Not to mention the fact that posters who have actually moved from California to other locations showed that you seriously underestimated the difference in housing costs, and cost of living in general, between the two locations.)

      I’m guessing you sourced those budget figures from the same people who told you that domestic vehicle quality was better than Japanese quality in the late 1970s and early 1980s. Or that the Japanese transplant factories are Victorian horror houses. Or that The Reckoning, because it was written in the 1980s, was somehow influenced by Ronald Reagan. Even though he didn’t write it or edit it.

  • avatar

    > The biggest growing population centers in Texas are the blue urban centers, within 6-10 years Texas will be in play for the presidential election and probably sooner in terms of state politics.

    As implied above the greatest irony here is that as Texas gradually but surely becomes a blue state it will become the GOP’s new California and some even deeper southern state the new Texas.

    The party’s well aware of this, thus its current attempts to gerrymander the blue & ethnic areas as hard as possible.

    Let’s wait for darkwing to insist it’s fiction because he refuses to believe it.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_United_Latin_American_Citizens_v._Perry

    • 0 avatar
      Dave M.

      Texas is a purple state that historically has tilted red then blue then red etc.

      LBJ, Ann Richards, and John Connolly just to name a few…yes, Connolly used to be a democrat until switching teams in the ’70s…

      • 0 avatar
        PrincipalDan

        Yeah but you mention Democrats from a time that was not quite so contentious in American Politics. Plus LBJ (Secret Service Code Name: Bull Nuts) was his own special kind of politician. Ann Richards was the kind of woman who would NOT take the cigarette out of her mouth before she told you to “kiss her a$$.”

        John Connolly? I always preferred John Conlee: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Conlee

        Livin’ that domestic life, happy children and a pretty wife…

  • avatar
    stuki

    It simply never ends! Has the thing “credited” with penning this drivel ever cared to sample the air quality in fashionably “eco friendly” Torrance, versus Plano?

    Pleeeeeassssse! We really, really need some more unabombers and Mohammad Attas to help end this nightmare. Ideally with nukes. They supposedly make everyone greener. Hence fashionably eco friendly enough for this bastion of systemic braindeath. Besides, there’s obviously nothing left worth preserving anymore anyway. That this thing is literally employed by anyone, is an insult even to cockroaches.

  • avatar
    doug-g

    I can’t imagine the horror of being told I had to relocate to Texas. My deepest sympathy goes out to the Toyota employees who will receive that news.

    • 0 avatar
      Steve65

      I once had a job that was moved from San Jose to El Paso (which, honestly, is where it should have been from the outset.) I was not invited to accompany it.

      I didn’t mind, for two reasons:

      1) I was given a $7000+ bonus to stick around for the last four months and train my replacement, and

      2) El Paso.

  • avatar
    Hank

    “It’s also possible that Toyota is moving away from California to reduce the impact that its water consumption is surely having on California’s water table, which is at its lowest point in recorded history.”

    So then, by all means move to an even drier state that’s also in the midst of a crushing drought…

  • avatar
    Slow_Joe_Crow

    The surprising thing is that for ordinary salaried workers and small businesses Texas is a very expensive state because a lot of Texas’ other taxes and fees are higher relative to the rest of the country. Texas is only a bargain for Fortune 500 companies with sweetheart tax deals and billionaire rentiers. ordinary working stiffs get a better deal in the Pacific NW, which is more Californians move to Oregon than Texas.
    At the bottom of this, what it really means is that Toyota’s US operation has become so Americanized that it has adopted the same sociopathic behavior pattern as any other larger corporation in the US.

    • 0 avatar
      jkross22

      You’re entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts. Let me help with a single data point that paints a much bigger picture for the employees of Toyota.

      State income taxes:
      TX: 0%
      CA: For earnings between $49,774.00 and $254,250, you’ll pay 9.30% plus $2,191.48

      Here is the source document for this information – http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/state-taxes-california.aspx

      The anti-TX ramblings never address this issue. I wonder why.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        People in the Northeast and Midwest (and Texas) pay the highest property taxes

        All told, property taxes were north of 1.5 percent of a home’s value in 11 states: Connecticut, Illinois, Michigan, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Dakota, Texas, Vermont, and Wisconsin.

        http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2013/11/18/people-in-the-northeast-and-midwest-and-texas-pay-the-highest-property-taxes/

        • 0 avatar
          geeber

          If the measurement is property taxes as a percentage of the home’s value, then Texas residents still wouldn’t be paying much total dollars, because home values are not that high there.

          (The survey notes that Hawaii has the lowest property taxes by that measurement. Property in Hawaii, however, is extremely expensive. So a person could still be paying a fair amount in property taxes in Hawaii even with that ranking, given the cost of real estate in Hawaii.)

          Connecticut, New York and New Jersey residents, on the other hand, are paying astronomical amounts of property taxes no matter how we measure it, given the value of real estate in those states.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            At the state level, a really low tax rate in one area is generally offset with some higher tax rate for something else.

            In California, the income tax rate is high, but the property tax rate is on the lower side, with controls on valuation increases that favor legacy owners. And in many cases, the house will appreciate in value to an extent that it never would in Texas (although the Texan gets to initially pay much less for the same sort of house.)

            Texas has no state income tax, but relatively high property taxes.

            Oregon has no state sales tax, but relatively high income taxes.

            Etc, etc. Choose your poison. Cherrypicking the facts, as some are inclined to do in order to score political points, isn’t helpful.

          • 0 avatar
            geeber

            The people I know who make that sort of calculations are retirees. They are generally looking for less expensive property and either no income tax, or exemptions for retirement income.

            Younger people go where the jobs are, so if Toyota is in Texas, or Apple is in California, they go there. My wife’s cousin therefore ended up in Cupertino working for Apple, as he has a doctorate from Carnegie-Mellon in computer science. High housing costs didn’t bother him, as he is single and childless, so he doesn’t want a single family home or even a townhouse.

          • 0 avatar
            JD23

            Moving from Vermont to Texas, I traded 1.75% property taxes and a roughly 5% average income tax rate (with a 7.8% marginal rate) in Vermont to 2.2% property tax and 0 income tax in Texas. This works out to $5k per year less in state and local taxes without even considering the significantly cheaper real estate.

        • 0 avatar
          George B

          Misleading numbers without units. People pay a dollar amount of property tax on their specific house based on tax rate and valuation minus exemptions.

          Within a 3 mile radius of the future Toyota Headquarters the Plano, Frisco, and Lewisville school districts; Collin and Denton counties; and Plano, Frisco, The Colony, Lewisville, Hebron, and Carrollton cities are all competing with each other on amenities vs. tax rate. Politicians are slimy bastards everywhere, but pushing the government down to the local level forces those slimy bastards to compete with each other.

          • 0 avatar
            Roader

            Overall tax burden is pretty easy to calculate:

            http://best-state-taxes.247wallst.com/

            11.2% for CA vs. 7.9% Texas. Several thousand bucks for someone pulling down $100K/year. A year’s worth of new car payments.

    • 0 avatar
      jkross22

      My bad… I should have included the link from the Franchise Tax Board, one of 3 of CA’s taxing authorities. Here you go:

      https://www.ftb.ca.gov/forms/2013_california_tax_rates_and_exemptions.shtml

  • avatar
    Roader

    China is a developing country and problems with pollution in its big cities isn’t much different from London or Pittsburgh just after WWII. In 1952 London had the Great Smog that killed 4K to 12K people. Something similar happened near Pittsburgh in 1948, although with fewer fatalities. I used to visit my grandmother on Chicago’s East Side in the 1960s, close to several steel mills, and remember wiping the windowsill in the morning and finding it black with soot by dinner time.

    The richer people get the more they can afford to clean up their environment. A quick look at Gapminder World shows China’s life expectancy soared from 66 to 75 since just 1980, which is about when Deng started moving China from socialist economic retardation to a market economy. I expect life expectancy will continue to increase commensurate with the continuing per-capita GDP increase.

  • avatar
    George B

    The best explanation I’ve read for why Toyota decided to move their US headquarters from Torrance, CA to Plano, TX is Toyota has transitioned from primarily an importer from Japan to primarily a manufacturer in the US. There is more need to schedule conference calls with manufacturing plants and dealers in the Central and Eastern time zones and less need to coordinate with Japan and the Port of Long Beach. Putting most Toyota employees in the Central time zone makes operations more productive. Plane flights from Toyota Headquarters to the other facilities also become much shorter.

    Toyota gets to start with a big empty chunk of land next to the J.C. Penny headquarters and build the facilities exactly the way they want them while benefiting from infrastructure built for other large companies. Could be that the other cities didn’t have an equivalent piece of land in a prime location.

    Plano, TX is not a cheap place to do business compared to many rural areas, but it offers pretty good amenities for the money. Toyota employees will get excellent housing and schools near the Toyota headquarters combined with a considerably lower cost of living. Not Ozarks low, but national average cost to live in the highest income city of >250k population in the US. Not many mobile homes in Plano.


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