By on December 11, 2013

montoya

When a New Mexico state police officer fired shots at a minivan that was fleeing the scene of an arrest, TTAC’s readers were sharply divided on the merits of his actions. Now, officer Elias Montoya has been terminated from his job as a highway patrolman — and many New Mexico residents are rising to his defense.


The Albuquerque Journal reports that Officer Montoya was terminated on Friday.

According to Montoya’s report of the incident, he fired at the van’s left rear tire in an effort to immobilize the vehicle “so as not to put any other human life in jeopardy.”

“My decision in shooting at the tire and not at the driver was because of all the people in the vehicle. … I may have exaggerated in keeping the muzzle of my weapon down so no innocent person would get hit with the shots I fired,” he wrote.

The video of the incident received national media attention, including on CNN and ABC’s “Good Morning America.” Media legal analysts weighed in, criticizing the actions of Montoya.

But in-state, he is receiving a lot of support. A Facebook page has been created on his behalf, and postings praising the officer and criticizing Farrell, 39, a writer, rapper and home-school advocate, for causing problems during the traffic stop were piling up Friday night. The page had almost 2,200 “likes.”

…According to a profile from a 2010 Taos News article, Montoya is a father who once mentored boys in an organization called Taos Men Engaged in Non-violence. “My dad was a minister and things were expected of you. He taught me how to be responsible,” Montoya said of his late father.

The Facebook page dedicated to supporting Officer Montoya notes that hundreds of people turned out to march in support of his reinstatement this past weekend. Given the weather in the ABQ, which was surprisingly Midwest-winter-ish, that’s not a trivial thing.

This case is proving to be a bit of a nightmare for the large segment of Americans who have been trained by the major media and universities to think exclusively in terms of identity politics. Ms. Farrell is African-American, Officer Montoya is Hispanic, and he so far has been spared the “white Hispanic” sobriquet. However, a local Hispanic solidarity group demonstrated against his actions last week. Meanwhile, the Internet has dug up the fact that Ms. Farrell had an arrest for DUI and reckless driving in 2008.

Officer Montoya has yet to be charged with any crime, but surely this is a situation where the district attorney has his or her finger in the air to see which way the political wind is blowing. We’ll keep you posted as updates occur.

Get the latest TTAC e-Newsletter!

100 Comments on “New Mexico Policeman Who Shot At Minivan Loses Job, Gains Community Support...”


  • avatar
    schmitt trigger

    “Media legal analysts weighed in, criticizing the actions of Montoya.”

    Media legal analysts are just like Monday morning quarterbacks.

  • avatar
    danio3834

    What I find almost as troubling as Mr. Montoya firing at a vehicle full of innocents is his apparent belief that trying to shoot out the tires of a moving vehicle with his side arm would work out even remotely like it does on TV.

    • 0 avatar
      andyinatl

      People escaping the scene where they were pulled over by cops, are not innocents. Don’t get me wrong, i’m against the police overusing their force most of the time. But there are legit cases like that (like the case few days ago where cop killed a college kid that took his baton away), and there are cases like this one where driver was pulled over, did not cooperate and then took off from the scene, presenting public danger. Shooting at the tires is more than justified here….

      • 0 avatar
        danio3834

        Reports indicate that there were other children in the vehicle aside from the driver and the 14 year old who assaulted the officer. Those kids didn’t deserve to be fired upon.

      • 0 avatar
        Kinosh

        You shoot your firearm to kill someone. Not to shoot out tires, not to turn off the television, not to make a loud noise to get attention. If a cop is firing their firearm, then they should be actively trying their damndest to kill someone.

        Additionally, unless it’s a fleeing felon who poses an immediate, grave, and imminent danger to the community, then you don’t use deadly force to stop them.

        It is ALWAYS better to let someone escape then kill them/injure the public unless you believe they pose an immediate, grave, and imminent danger.

        *Sourced from an old law professor in the state of Ohio

        • 0 avatar
          OldandSlow

          Spot on advice Kinosh.

          If you want to see what can happen to a fleeing felon who has committed armed robbery, then shot a police office and stole a squad car as well – google – “Watch: Miami police involved in wild shootout” – Click on the 26 second youtube video.

        • 0 avatar
          redav

          Agree. IMO, his ‘explanation’ is an attempt to retcon the events. I don’t believe he was aiming for the tires; he’s making up this story to save face.

      • 0 avatar
        markf

        So everyone who is pulled over is guilty of a crime worthy of getting shot at and their kids are just collateral damage?

        What police department teaches officers to shoot tires out of moving vehicles filled with children?

        This idiot should be charged and imprisoned.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        No, they aren’t innocents, but did their crime justify being killed? Good luck justifying that.

      • 0 avatar
        mkirk

        We are talking about rules for the use of deadly force here. I am a Soldier, not a Cop, but in order for me to use deadly force, at least on my last deployment the threshold was 1. an Imminent threat to my own life, 2. a threat to my Soldier’s lives, 3. a threat to my vehicle (or FOB if I was inside the wire) or 4. a threat of deadly force upon another civilian. See the theme here…I could use deadly force IN RESPONSE TO A THREAT OF DEADLY FORCE! and in doing so it was incumbent upon me to attempt to minimalize collateral damage to, say, something like a van full of kids. Feeling that you were threatened by a van speeding AWAY from you down an open road is a tough sell. So you are telling me that our Government should afford more protection to the average Iraqi than the average American?

      • 0 avatar
        ect

        The odds of hitting a tire on a moving vehcle with a handgun are very remote, to say the least. The odds of a missed shot hitting a person are probably higher.

        It is more work, but police have tools like radios and teamwork to stop a fleeing vehicle. And the ability to record licence plate numbers, which can be used to track down a vehicle and its owner/driver.

        Officer Montoya was undoubtedly very angry about Ms. Farrell’s conduct. Who wouldn’t be? But that doesn’t justify shooting at a vehicle full of kids.

    • 0 avatar
      Larry P2

      But to hear the cops tell it, they are superhuman in both their shooting and driving ability, as well as brilliant as General Schwartzkopf in tactical and strategic acumen.

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      He must have attended the Netflix Police Academy.

      OK, maybe not. That’s just the best alibi that he could produce after the fact, which is a good indication of the absurdity of his actions.

    • 0 avatar
      burgersandbeer

      The support from the ABQ community is probably because they find his story believable and a reasonable thing to do, all thanks to TV.

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        It’s not just ABQ. It’s all over the state, and people are petitioning the Governor to reinstate him. I signed the petition.

        • 0 avatar
          nrd515

          The only gun Montoya should carry is a toy. If you want him on the streets, well, I don’t think you’re thinking correctly.

        • 0 avatar
          racer-esq.

          Hopefully you are this guy’s next target, since you insist on him keeping his job despite his incompetence (how dare a gavernment employee be fired). Since you concealed carry you are an easy mark, you come with a weapon for him to plant.

          I support CC laws, the govenment should not have a monoploly on violence, but it is going to make this cop framing you a lot easier.

          • 0 avatar
            danio3834

            It’s distressing to me that there are apparently many people who believe this guy’s story. I guess they deserve what they ask for.

  • avatar
    OneAlpha

    Considering the mindset of the American police officer these days, one is given to wonder whether he opened fire because his ego had been wounded by the woman not surrendering immediately.

    The law, and its enforcers, are becoming so inflexible and overreactive to the most trivial things that many people are going to get to the point where they think, “hey, it’s not like I’m going to get in ANY MORE trouble if I fight back.”

  • avatar

    The famous State Of Anal Probe and Principal Dan.

    • 0 avatar
      PrincipalDan

      lol, none of the people involved in this even make the top ten of craziest people in the state. I should ask my BIL who is a NM State Police officer if he knows this gentleman.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    Tough situation for the police to be in but I’m surprised he was released, they usually put them on administrative leave while they “conduct the investigation”. A trial lawyer’s advice would nice right about now for Mr. Montoya. I speculate it would be something to the effect of “attack the [ostensible] victim”.

  • avatar
    Halftruth

    It’s always the cops fault. If that bonehead of a driver had crashed into a loaded school bus, then it would have been very different with all of the “Why didn’t they do more?? My little Johnny was hurt!!!!”
    Let the cops do their damn jobs. On top of it, we need to see the cop jailed and the driver freed/treated as a victim? Hell no.

    • 0 avatar
      morbo

      As someone that comes from 3 generations of police, I’ll say this. I don’t want them shooting at cars. Immobilizing the vehicle? More like increased likelihood of ricochet maiming/killing someone.

    • 0 avatar
      racer-esq.

      What world are you living on that it is always the cop’s fault? The only people with less accountability for the crimes they commit than cops are Catholic Priests. In both cases it is because the dimmest members of society are gullible enough to think that wearing a certain hat gives a person moral superiority.

      They need to think that there are “special” people out there to sleep at night.

      The Freakonomics movie has a great segment called “Pure Corruption” that covers the concept well. In Japan the gullible people held Sumo Wrestlers beyond reproach. So Sumo Wrestlers became super corrupt. In the US cops are held beyond reproach. And cops have become super corrupt.

      • 0 avatar
        Halftruth

        I am only referring to this case only. I am not a cop lover or a cop hater. I respect them because they have a tough job to do and many of them do not get paid squat to deal with shitheads like this one on a daily basis. Yes, you are correct, immunity corrupts but come on, they have a job to do and were not being unreasonable.. This is why stupid laws get passed for the rest of us. Cop pulls you over, you have to play along and be nice. Just because you have a hair across your ass doesn’t excuse you to running off/threatening an officer. It’s a two way street. If you have something to hide then tough shit.

        Every case is different but these cops were provoked and it took quite a bit to get a bullet out of them. And to say he was shooting at the tires ala Hollywood is BS, they do it all the time and is part of their training. He was obviously going after the tires as he was taught to; not to hurt occupants, but to disable the vehicle.

        • 0 avatar
          racer-esq.

          Cops are incredibly well paid because of their thuggish unions. See my Taxpayers United of America link below.

          You are just making up the training about shhoting out tires. It is stupid, even if it was what this guy intended. And it is not what this guy intended, it is just the least stupid exuse his union rep could come up with.

          Stupid employees should be fired.

  • avatar
    ant

    One of my good friends is a NRA gun nut. He has taken me out to the gun range with him doing target practice. (clay pigeons are a blast)

    Anyways, I was shocked at difficult it is to shoot accurately. Even at distances much closer than that minivan, and not moving, and with a lazer light, I would have found it near impossible to shoot out a tire like he was trying to do.

    In addition, there is also considerations about where the bullet goes if one misses their target.

    I am glad this guy got fired, and I think the other one who broke out the minivan window should get fired as well. What was the point of that?

    • 0 avatar
      Toad

      Agreed on how hard it is to aim a pistol accurately. 10 minutes at a pistol range will teach you that the idea of accurately hitting a moving object with a pistol is a fantasy for most people.

      It is hard enough to hit a stationary (paper) target at 50+ feet in the torso; the idea of shooting somebody in the leg or a moving car tire is delusional.

      After a little time at the range I understand why cops are (normally) trained to shoot to kill. Otherwise, stay off the trigger.

  • avatar
    racer-esq.

    Luckily for citizens of NM the government employee unions are apparently no so strong that incompetent employees, even incompetent employees that are good at exploiting family pictures, cannot be fired.

    Unfortunately firing incompetent government workers is not nearly as easy in my state, especially cops.

    From an effective government standpoint I am more concerned with this guy being fired than charged with anything, but usually the only way to fire a crappy cop, because of union rules, is to get that cop convicted of a felony.

    Which is almost impossible given the pressure that thug cop unions exert on prosecutors and judges, and the special needs child mindset of typical jurors, that there is something morally superior about people who work for the government because the compensation is significantly better than for anything they are qualified to do in the private sector.

  • avatar
    OldandSlow

    A single mom, rapper and possible welfare queen meets the rural American West.

    Some of her lyrics show a real role model for the youngsters, “With the cash in my stash, need the EBT for food,” “I’m also so sick and tired of ‘struggelin’, I never ever thought I’d have to resort to drug ‘smuggelin’”

    The way she pronounces struggling and smuggling in her videos is pure rapper want-to-be.

    Trooper Montoya was stupid start shooting – even if no kids were in the van. Rounds do ricochet and there’s no place within a hundred miles of Taos where this crew wouldn’t stick out like a sore thumb. Trust me, they weren’t going to get very far.

    • 0 avatar
      Russycle

      And you can’t outrun radio. Call me Pollyanna, but I’d like to believe that the idiot running from a traffic stop scenario is common enough that it’s covered in trooper training, and “shoot the tires” isn’t one of the sanctioned options.

    • 0 avatar
      racer-esq.

      I would absolutely make any government benefits dependent on a tubal ligation, but, as you point out, that is a separate issue from the shooting.

      • 0 avatar
        Nick_515

        It’s called eugenics, racer-esq, and it was indeed practiced in this country.

        • 0 avatar
          racer-esq.

          Oh come on, be adult about this, it’s not eugenics if it’s optional. I cannot have unlimited children, because I actually work for a living in a real private sector job. I could cry eugenics. I could say that the taxes I pay to support lazy government leaches like this woman and cop are eugenics, since they prevent me from having more kids.

          But this woman keeps getting more money for more kids? Time to cutoff the cash flow, unless she cuts the tubes.

          We already put men in jail if they have more kids than they can afford, but somehow women are seen as victims when they selfishly have more kids than they can afford. I don’t get how it is feminist to view women as that stupid. They aren’t. This woman is intentionally manipulating the system.

          • 0 avatar
            Nick_515

            Racer-esq, I have every intention in the world to take your arguments seriously and respectfully. But it doesn’t add up. Having kids should not be congruous with social class (i.e. “what you can afford”). I also reject the myth that this country offers equal opportunities to every one – in fact, the evidence makes it depressingly clear that that is not the case. Consequently, though you and everyone else may have no such personal intentions, we indeed blame the victims for their personal inadequacies for structural problems. Once they coincide with racial differences, that indeed is the definition of modern racism.

            That is the main problem of anti-government ideology – it can’t get past its own fiction of “personal responsibility.”

  • avatar
    Dan R

    Here in Oklahoma, this would be considered normaql.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      It’s normal in NM too. Too many NM cops have died because they hesitated, including one that my wife sold a house to, years ago.

      This woman ran, not just once. She endangered her crotch-fruit by trying to run. I hope they throw the book at her.

      I signed the petition to reinstate this cop.

      • 0 avatar
        racer-esq.

        The country still has a Constitution, as much as privileged government employees would like to shoot at everyone that they don’t like. The danger of being a cop is propaganda from their unions, it is a very safe job. From Taxpayers United of America:

        “‘Police-organization bureaucrats repeatedly state that there is a ‘war on cops’ in order to justify police salaries and the ability in some municipalities for cops to retire at an unusually young age, often in their fifties,’ said Tobin. ‘By retiring earlier than most workers, police officers can literally rake in millions of dollars in pension benefits over a normal lifetime.’

        ‘In fact, the number of on-the-job police fatalities has dropped nearly 50 percent in the last 20 years, even as the total number of cops has doubled. And, by the way, the leading cause of death for cops is car accidents, not violence.’”

        “‘Figures from the Bureau of Labor Statistics prove that police work is not one of the top five or even top ten most hazardous jobs.’”

        http://www.taxpayersunitedofamerica.org/commentary/police-pay-and-benefits-higher-than-more-dangerous-jobs

        I’m surprised you signed the petition instead of seeing it as an opening for another of your “crotch-fruit” to get a government job.

        • 0 avatar
          mkirk

          THIS^^^ With these type jobs come responsibility. I couldn’t just blaze rounds through bad areas of Baghdad because I was pissed off because a few Assholes kept trying to blow us up. If you can’t make these distinctions then perhaps they should sell jeans at the Gap or something.

      • 0 avatar
        kenzter

        Is it ok to refer to your children and grandchildren as crotch fruit now? Heaven forbid your granddaughter ever gets knocked up by a black guy.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          kenzter, my wife’s niece did, in Chicago, by a black guy. That’s why we took her in, got her an abortion in Juarez and raised her in NM until she graduated from HS. Long time ago.

          Children and grandchildren have been called a lot worse than crotch fruit.

          If you look up the origin of the term, and it goes back many decades, you may change your interpretation since it was originally used as an expression to describe the act of making love and growing the results.

          ——————

          racer-esq., my #2 son was a State Trooper in another state for 7 years after he got out of the Marine Corps, and taught the last two years at the Academy until he was offered a Federal position in San Diego with the Marine Corps.

          I don’t know this NM cop but the law as it is written in New Mexico justified his actions.

          After the appeal has runs its course, he’ll get his job back, without the help from the union.

          The question is, will he want it back? He’ll be getting job offers from everywhere, at much higher pay than NM can ever hope to offer him during an entire career.

          FYI, when called for, I am staunchly in favor of the warning shot through the head, and I am licensed to carry concealed.

          • 0 avatar
            kenzter

            Hmm, didn’t strike me as pro-choice.
            So many government jobs in your family! The irony…

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            I’m an Independent, neither pro-choice nor pro-life. I figure that applies only to people affected by having to make the choice.

            In my case, I am a Catholic, my wife a Lutheran, and we made it work.

            And as far as government jobs go, the government has come knocking on our door. Usually they come knocking before someone gets out of the military.

            Most recently, my grandson got out of the USMC this past June and was offered a job at Pendleton before he got out, doing the same job he did in the MC as a GS9/11/12.

            My youngest son was offered a job before he retired as a Lt Col from the Army and is now a Supervisory Agent in TX with the Feds.

            The military wants to hold on to its good people. They know their track record. Outsiders need not apply unless they have a sponsor.

            My 21 yo grand daughter will be graduating with a Bachelors in Horticulture next May and has been contacted by both Federal and State agencies for several jobs in Parks and Wildlife conservation. It’s up to her to choose what she wants to accept. And she is not alone. Her girlfriends have also been offered jobs as has her fiancée.

            Whatever we do in life, we all are constantly being watched and situations and job offers can pop up out of nowhere.

            I have been offered teaching positions at the undergraduate and graduate levels in my region, and I never even looked for work since I’m up to my eyeballs in work already.

            There’s no irony. Interaction with other people often results in the strangest opportunities.

          • 0 avatar
            mike978

            I thought you said in another thread that you had never had it so bad as under this administration. But today you say jobs just keep popping up for your family. Sounds like life isn`t that bad after all.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            mike978, jobs offered to my sons and grand children don’t benefit me. My money is worth a lot less than it used to be.

            Things have changed for the worse and there is a lot less hope now. More than 45 million people on Food stamps?

            This is a good thing?

  • avatar
    ash78

    My name is Elias Montoya. You yelled at my brother. Prepare to die.

    I guess he was hoping that van had bias-ply tires inflated to 90psi and they would simply explode at the first puncture. Then the van would flip, tossing the children and perpetrator into his arms, then explode as he jumped in the opposite direction so he would be propelled forward into a nice bush, scratching up his hands on a manzanita that would earn him a medal for valor.

  • avatar
    VenomV12

    Nice skinhead, thug-cop haircut, I thought only the white cops were doing that these days, I guess he is just emulating his brethren.

    Good Lord Baruth, you are just a vile, unapologetic racist, you will not give this up. Even though countless of people with a working brain have figured out that shooting at a van full of innocent kids and an unarmed woman is wrong, you can’t seem to figure it out yourself or see that race likely was a huge factor in what went down here. What happened to your original racist photo you had on here with the 3 thug looking black guys that you had on here before you put up the photo of this man?

    The population of New Mexico is about 2 million people, 2200 people is statistically irrelevant. Hardly a massive outpouring of the general public in support of this man like you are trying to insinuate. Even in a town of 300,000 people it would still be inconsequential, so stop trying to make it look like something it was not.

    Is your argument now that Hispanics are incapable of racism, because last time I checked blacks and Hispanics were still two different races and have not always been known to get along with each other either. Pretty sure all races are capable of racism.

    Not quite sure what Ms. Farrell having an arrest for a DUI back in 2008 has to do with anything either, Alice Walton the Walmart heir has 2 and Laura Bush likely killed someone drunk driving when she was a teenager. I am willing to bet half your buddies have DUIs also and given your profession and love of cars, betting you all have quite a few reckless driving tickets among yourselves.

  • avatar
    krhodes1

    This woman ran from the cops not once, but TWICE, if I recall correctly. I admire the officer’s restraint – he should have been shooting at HER, sprogs in the car be damned. Had she sped off and crashed into another vehicle, killing someone, everyone would want the cop’s heads for not doing enough. Damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

    Is it really that hard, regardless of the circumstances, to pull over, BE POLITE, and do as your told? Certainly has always worked for me in my encounters with the police. I have family members who are cops, I am perfectly happy if they shoot or taze first, and then get to come home for dinner with their families later.

    If you think you are being wronged, the time to stick up for your rights is AFTER the situation is over. Until that point, Yes, Sir, No Sir. If that makes me a sheep, then baaaaaaa.

    • 0 avatar
      OneAlpha

      “…the time to stick up for your rights is AFTER the situation is over. Until that point, Yes, Sir, No Sir.”

      Yeah, right. Enjoy Siberia.

    • 0 avatar
      danio3834

      Stepping it up a notch today, I see.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      This woman was not being wronged. There were three cruisers AND Dispatch that were involved.

      And they did find drug paraphernalia in the van.

      • 0 avatar
        mkirk

        And again, on what planet does possession of Drug Paraphernalia equate to a response of deadly force. We reserve the death penalty for premeditated murder in this country and in many states that won’t even get it, yeet someone has a crack pipe or a bong and that is justification to light them up and their family?

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          On what planet? In New Mexico, right here on earth.

          Too many New Mexico cops have died while on duty. Now they shoot first and ask questions later.

          Do a little research on how many people have been shot dead in NM by cops. This ain’t no sissyfied state.

          You don’t fool around with cops doing their duty. And you don’t try to run.

          • 0 avatar
            mkirk

            I don’t care. Because I got shot at by a bunch of Iraqis did not give me the right to treat every iraqi like a bomb maker in spite of the fact they had managed to kill 4000 before me.

            If a Cop can’t separate the good from the bad mentally or they want to shoot first and ask questions later because there vocation is dangerous then perhaps another career field is in order.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Obviously, the fact that you don’t care hasn’t prevented this from happening, and happening again in the future, as it has prior to this incident.

            You’re confusing military ROE with civilian law. Cops react in accordance to how they are trained. The rules that apply to the military do not apply to civilian life. Just look at the UCMJ to see how it differs from civilian law.

            When my son retired from the Army and went to work for the Feds he had to learn the way that the Feds did it, and work with State and Local law enforcement as well. And he’s got a Masters in Law Enforcement.

            The underlying authority is the law as it is written for, in this case, NM.

            This woman was wrong in trying to run and she is lucky the cop didn’t shoot her.

            There is plenty of precedence of people getting shot dead in NM by cops. Once the dust settles, it will be back to business as usual and the law will not be changed, because it works.

          • 0 avatar
            mkirk

            So let me be clear here. In the situation as it is the threshold for a cop to use deadly force is WAY below the threshold for a Soldier to use deadly force on the battlefield and you are OK with that?

            When operating in the US in a Katrina type environment we have Rules for the Use of Force or RUF. I am sure Cops have something similar.

            Deadly force is deadly force be it in Iraq or Detroit. You don’t think Soldiers get sick of watching their fellow Soldiers die and want to shoot first and ask questions later? Sometimes they do…its called a war crime.

            You are trying to justify cops exercising powers that in our society they simply don’t have. I don’t hate cops and I completely get what they go through in dealing with the element of society they deal with and how they could come to see the world in the manner you describe. But should there mental state become such that they can no longer perform their duty in a manner consistent with public expectations they need to seek help or get another job. You being OK with this is akin to Soldiers being OK with Robert Bales shooting up a village.

          • 0 avatar
            danio3834

            mkirk, I’m glad we have level headed soldiers like you out in the field. We need more of you back home.

    • 0 avatar
      cartunez

      I find you amusing…I guess the women who get raped by cops and seek justice after the rape are doing the right thing…I would not allow some costumed weirdo to attack my mother and if you would allow it well I suppose you are that kind…regarding running from the cops who cares did she harm anyone? The costumed thug has the obligation to use better judgment never forget that.

  • avatar
    Larry P2

    The only reason modern cops get one ounce of slight, totally feigned “respect” is the simple fear that if appropriate obsequiousness is not immediately shown, you could be killed.

    Aside from that, with a few rare exceptions, they are the fattest of the fat “welfare queens,” loathsome, half-educated hind-tit sucking union thugs that are sexually aroused by forcing helpless citizens to kneel and bow and scrape in front of them.

    Yes marijuana was found in the car, and that set the Police off into a hyper-active crazed, blood frenzy that totally explains all of their subsequent actions.

    The Police have become the Bad Guys because of the War on Drugs. They have lied too often in court, ran roughshod over the constitution, and have become mean, cowardly bullies.

    They have earned the “respect” given to a two-bit thug in charge of a central american banana republic.

    • 0 avatar
      VenomV12

      They did not even find marijuana which is not a drug IMO or any other drugs, they found that BS made up term, “drug paraphernalia” which could really be anything and that was after all this went down too.

  • avatar
    DC Bruce

    I hope that NM Police are sufficiently trained such that they are told never to shoot at a moving vehicle, except to protect their own lives. This guy’s training appears to have been at the hand of Hollywood, which has shown him too many movies where this maneuver succeeds.

    I assume this oficer’s violation of established procedures is the grounds for his dismissal.

    Regardless of who was in the car or what they had allegedly done, shooting at a moving vehicle creates at least two risks to innocent bystanders, not to mention those inside: (1) the risk that the bullet will ricochet and strike a bystander, causing death or injury and (2) risk that a disabled vehicle will careen into a bystander, also causing death or injury.

    I wouldn’t want to see this guy charged with a crime; but he definitely needs to be off the force. Luckily, his fellow officers didn’t join in the melee . . . one of them probably would have been shot . . . by one of the others in a hail of uncontrolled gunfire. In the mid-70s, I saw the Houston PD do precisely this in a very similar situation — a traffic stop after a high-speed chase where the driver started to “rabbit.” IIRC, no one was killed, but several of the cops were injured by their fellow officers’ bullets. The driver was not hurt, (and also was not armed) and the DA charged him with assault with a deadly weapon, etc. The case was thrown out; didn’t even get to a jury.

    Untrained police officers, or police officers tho get their “training” from Hollywood are a serious menace . . . to both themselves and to everyone else.

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      As I noted above, the precision tire shooting argument is probably the best excuse that he could produce after the fact.

      Anyone who has any familiarity with handguns must know that his explanation doesn’t pass the smell test. But at this point, he needs to make up any story that could reduce his liability, and stick to it.

      • 0 avatar
        Larry P2

        “But at this point, he needs to make up any story that could reduce his liability, and stick to it.”

        And yet, they profess to be totally mystified by the citizenry consistently expressing unbridled, seething hatred at them.

  • avatar

    If you run from the cops -getting shot at or in the back is a consequence.

    PERIOD.

    Don’t run.

    • 0 avatar
      mkirk

      You know, if that had happened in any of my combat deployments the Cop would be in the wrong, period. Running does not pose eminent danger and as such did not rise to the level of deadly force unless said van was speeding towards a checkpoint or something. At no point was there any weapons brandished. It would be a tough sell to say I felt threatened by a car speeding away. I am reminded of an incident where my truck was hit by an IED and the trigger man ran into a house. The Apache pilots had Positive ID on the trigger man running into the house but he was denied permission to light the house up due to the likelihood of Children in the house (they loved to run into crowds of Children). Granted all my deployments were post 2008 so the ROE was tighter than say 2003ish, but isn’t it reasonable for an American Citizen to expect at least the same level of protection from deadly force by a Police Officer that we afford to an Iraqi that just set off an IED? Or is collateral Damage not important here in the US?

      • 0 avatar
        cartunez

        The police are at “war” is the dog food that most Americans eat these days. Sadly the war they are fighting will only get worse. As real crimes trend downward that enforcement of the crime of the day will cause the mobile tax collectors aka police to crack down on more Americans who will in turn further fight back. So will do it the so called right way and some will put bullets in them.

    • 0 avatar
      danio3834

      Frightening how often this opinion is stated. Running does not entitle the police to kill you.

      The enablers in our society that hold your opinion do.

      • 0 avatar

        Unless we ENCASE cops in body armor and they are FORCED to have a “shoot only on sight of gun” or “shoot only if shot first” policy then I can’t eliminate the possibility a runner could:

        a) take a hostage

        b) get a gun

        c) endanger another innocent.

        DON’T RUN…You’ll only DIE TIRED.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          Cue the Robocop theme music.

          • 0 avatar
            NoGoYo

            Too bad the remake seems to use as little as possible of the old film.

            No Taurus, what seems to be minimized use of a silver suit, probably won’t have the fake commercials, might not have “I’d buy THAT for a dollar!”…

          • 0 avatar
            danio3834

            Not to worry NoYoGo, the return of the Taurus PI wasn’t overlooked in the film.

        • 0 avatar
          mkirk

          You don’t have to make those decisions. Unless there is an IMINENT threat to yourself, a fellow cop there or another civilian then deadly force should not be authorized (again, as an American I expect the same protections I offer to those on the battlefield). The fact that someone “might” do anything does not constitute an imminent threat.

          Deadly force is a means to protect oneself, not administer justice because you are pissed off someone isn’t listening.

          If they get a gun and demonstrate hostile intent, then yes, blaze away.

          I would have been more inclined to agree if he had shot when the kid came at him, though even this is borderline it is certainly reasonable that someone could derive a threat from that. I would have had no issue with him unholstering his weapon at that point at least but as the car was pulling away there was no threat.

          Sure, they could get a gun. So could you. Hell I may have shot JFK for all you know. Doesn’t matter.

          What are the rules for Cops using deadly force. Ours are printed on a card that fit in our pocket. Perhaps cops need something akin to this.

          And encasing them in body armor isn’t a cure all…Every Soldier I know of who was killed died in full battle rattle and one as a result of it.

        • 0 avatar
          mkirk

          And you know, what you describe is PRECISELY what you ask Soldiers on the ground to do so you are damn well right that I expect that AT A MINIMUM from a cop.

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        People get killed for running, for not obeying a command. Not just in NM, but in a lot of places.

        The idea is not to get in such a situation in the first place. This woman was pulled over for speeding. She decided to escalate the stop.

        Her bad. She’s lucky the cop didn’t shoot through the back window at her.

        • 0 avatar
          mkirk

          Yes, and she should face a hefty fine and some jail time for that (taking out the shooting of course as she will likely get a hefty settlement now). You see we have a system by which the death penalty is handed out by juries, not traffic cops. Traffic cops have a right to use deadly force to protect themselves (remember, they are under no obligation to protect you per the courts). Did the van speeding away pose an imminent threat to the cop at that time. I don’t see this threat and the road looked empty so it would be hard to argue anyone faced an imminent threat of death. I know it did not rise to my ROE

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Your ROE are different. Cops in civilian life, not just in New Mexico, do not wait to take fire. They shoot first and ask questions later.

            It’s the reality.

            This woman will get judged. But the cop should not have been fired because other cops in NM and elsewhere got to keep their jobs for killing runners, either with a weapon or with a police cruiser by running over them.

            Happens all the time.

          • 0 avatar
            mkirk

            Cops need to stress and brief there rules for the use of force every time they head out on patrol. We did this every mission. It is imperative that anyone authorized to use deadly force understand when that force should and shouldn’t be applied. Remember, even with cops it is a defensive and protective measure, not a means to keep people from getting away. Yes, sometimes they overlap. That is why you train on it over and over again.

  • avatar
    Hemi

    This article pertains to cars how? This along with the cell phone law cookie article…

    • 0 avatar
      Larry P2

      How about the total lack of protection that you have from police, once you are stupid enough to step inside of an automobile? That you strap on a big bullseye when you are out on the road?

      • 0 avatar
        Hemi

        I don’t feel that way, even if I did, I could go to copwatch or worldstar and watch all such videos. I’ve been driving a long time, and haven’t had a ticket in the longest time. I’ve been pulled over and have had both good and bad interactions with cops, but that’s besides the point. I live in NYC, I have other things to worry about. This website is/was a car enthusiast site and I love/loved coming to read about cars, car reviews, car questions and car experiences.

        Speaking of cars and being a target since I’m in NYC, I could be you local correspondent on Shomrim, Hatzollah and all the other whack jobs that run around “playing” police/EMT/firefighters… About all the abuse and personal cars outfitted with lights and the times I’ve almost been hit by reckless driving of these “emergency responders”. How the police cannot touch them for fear of outrageI fear them more than the NYPD, NYPD I can file a complaint about… Hatzollah and Shomrim, no one can touch, who regulates them? Oh wait, see what’s that have to do with cars? Catch my drift?

        I’d rather if there’s no new content, write about vehicle accessories (radar detectors, weather tech mats, wiper blade winter shootout!). Holiday gifts for the car guy, washing your car in the winter, proper vehicle detailing… I don’t care about what cop did what, who ran from the police, what tactics were used or what Obama ate for breakfast…

        Now can we return to the 2014 M3 and emailing Sanjeev some car questions! :D

        • 0 avatar
          Larry P2

          Yeah, well, this one hits kind of hard……

          I just retired after 19 years as a civil rights attorney. I have been pulled over as many as five times a day, and have been cited about 40 times (no convictions) in the five years since I started standing up for the citizens of this area against the rampant police brutality.

          Imagine what it is like all by yourself and having five police approach your vehicle with guns drawn, and then telling you that you were stopped because your 4×4 pickup must have full width mudflaps if the rear differential is visible. Pretty scary, to be treated that way.

          Trust me, you don’t want to live that way. And the way that normal everyday Americans get treated by the local police is just appalling. I am sickened by the obsessive fixation big media has on the Edward Snowden revelations of NSA activities, and ignores the way that everyday Americans are mistreated by local and state police.

          I for one am glad that TTAC has the courage to fight back against the abuse of local police.

  • avatar
    mkirk

    I have several R.O.E. cards down at my unit. Perhaps some of these cops could read up on the thresholds for our use of deadly force upon Non Americans and adjust there ROE accordingly. Seems like most American cities are something akin to Kandahar circa 2002 right now.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      Whats its like out in the field at present compared to say 2002, better/worse/same?

      • 0 avatar
        mkirk

        Different. Most of my experiences are based on later years and my real combat time was in Iraq though…My Afghan time has been since I left Combat Arms. I think one is less likely to get dead now than 2002 but it is a different war now so hard to compare.

  • avatar
    Scribe39

    Hemi is correct. This and the first post has almost nothing to do with cars. However, these two articles have convinced me I need not return to your site. So long.

  • avatar
    bill mcgee

    Obviously the police cars video cameras were running the whole time , the nutjob driver would have eventually been stopped without macho police gunplay . The driver certainly should lose her license and possibly custody of her children . But this dimbulb officer not only put innocent children at risk but in a litigious society put his department and municipality at risk of a lawsuit for his foolish actions . Any law enforcement department that is stupid enough to hire this fool deserves what it gets.

  • avatar
    Halftruth

    All this hoo-ha about “the vehicle was driving away so there was no danger” is assumption at best. There is no way to tell if that driver would have turned around and attempted to hurt the police. I am not a cop but I was nearly run over by a car thief that was pulling away from me. He 180′d when I turned my back and was nearly killed by this psycho. I was lucky enough to jump out of the way at the last second. If the point of these articles is to slant against the police, well, I cannot agree on this one. Not at all. Let’s get back to cars. We won’t agree so let’s drop it.

    • 0 avatar
      mkirk

      Had she flipped a 180 and began to drive towards the cops that would demonstrate hostile intent and warrant the use of deadly force. The time it takes to pull a U turn in a mini van is ample to make that determination. Because someone might do something is not cause to use deadly force unless it is coupled with hostile intent (brandishing a firearm in a threatening manner, pulling a knife, or flipping the car around and accelerating at your position).

      A Cop’s sidearm is a defensive weapon of last resort. Yes, that puts some cops in tough situations sometimes but that is the job. Very similar to our situation as the wars wind down. That’s the job though. Cops volunteered same as we did.

      Bottom line is there are likely rules and laws for what constitutes a situation where a Cop may unholster his/her weapon and fire it. It stands to reason from my perspective that those rules or laws would at least be similar to the rules governing what Soldiers in a foreign country do while performing actions similar to what domestic Cops do. (I am talking a mature battlefield, not the initial push to Baghdad or the Battle of the Bulge here, those are different entirely). It is unfathomoly to me that US citizens on US soil would have less protection with regard to their relationship with those employed to protect and serve them than an Iraqi or Afghan has when interacting with a US Soldier. Being authorized to use deadly force is a great responsibility so anyone with that responsibility had damned well better understand when they should and should not use that force.

      • 0 avatar
        Larry P2

        I have spoken to many returning veterans who noticed that unarmed American citizens have far fewer protections from the use of police force than hostile Iraqi enemy combatants do. I have spoken to many veterans of the recent wars who are sickened and appalled by the really disgusting and alarming way that the local and state police act, think about and talk to American citizens.

        • 0 avatar
          Halftruth

          Gentlemen, with all respect, these protections you speak of are not comparable. Not one bit. Afghanistan is a whole different world. There are always outlier cases and one-offs but if you are good to the cops they are good to you. This lady asked for it all day long. Stop vilifying the cops, it’s disgusting. Kids were in the car and he shot down and away, his intent was clear here. The media have made it out like he was shooting at them. He clearly wasn’t or he would have shot thru the windows..

          When drones start taking people out on US soil, then we will have a very big problem, talk to me then. I feel it is only a matter of time.

          • 0 avatar
            Larry P2

            Yes, lets have a multi-day filibuster about the highly-unlikely event that an American has about a .00000000000000000001 percent of a chance of being droned someday in the very long distance future.

            And ignore the dozens of Americans who are shot and killed monthly right now by the local police.

          • 0 avatar
            mkirk

            Wait, so they are different and somehow it is the American that ends up with fewer protections?

            And I’m not vilifying cops, just pointing out that this Cop acted wrongly and based on his actions it is perfectly reasonable that he is no longer a Cop. And not just based on the shooting. He completely allowed the situation to get out of control.

          • 0 avatar
            cartunez

            News flash!! An American citizen has already been droned. I suppose because as far you you know it didn’t happen on “American” soil that makes it ok. The really sad part about this entire thread is how detached some of the comments seem to be. The harsh reality boy and girls is this could and based on the current direction of the police state will be you someday.

  • avatar
    mkirk

    And good grief people. No, it isn’t about cars per say. If you don’t want to read it then skip it.


Back to TopLeave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.

Subscribe without commenting

Recent Comments

New Car Research

Get a Free Dealer Quote

Staff

  • Authors

  • Brendan McAleer, Canada
  • Marcelo De Vasconcellos, Brazil
  • Matthias Gasnier, Australia
  • J & J Sutherland, Canada
  • Tycho de Feyter, China
  • W. Christian 'Mental' Ward, Abu Dhabi
  • Mark Stevenson, Canada
  • Faisal Ali Khan, India