By on November 18, 2013

Here at TTAC, we’re always willing to shine the relatively dim spotlight of Internet Hammurabian Justice on police who are mendacious, power-mad, or just plain unfit to be cops. At first glance, the October 28, 2013 incident in which a police officer repeatedly fired his service weapon at a minivan full of children appears to be a prime example of this. After all, how can it ever be right to shoot at kids?

Strictly speaking, the answer to that question is “Unless they are busy endangering your life or the life of someone else, never.” In this case, however, the blurred lines of who’s responsible for what would make even Robin Thicke a trifle nervous.

When Oriana Ferrell was pulled over for 71 in a 55, she elected to flee the traffic stop as the officer walked back to his cruiser. After being chased back down, she pulls over again — at which point the officer orders her to get out of the vehicle, an order she defies. Oriana’s 14-year-old son gets out on the passenger side but retreats when the officer draws his Taser. She eventually agrees to leave the minivan, but when the officer attempts to turn her around to be handcuffed, she runs back into the car. The cop is unable to physically prevent this, and he is assaulted by the 14-year-old and at least one of the other children.

It would appear that the combined attack by the family at least temporarily overpowers the officer, permitting them to get back in the vehicle and prepare to flee the scene. At that point, backup arrives. The police don’t properly block the minivan, which manages to get away, but not before one of the officers smashes a window and the officer who is perhaps last to arrive at the scene fires multiple shots into the minivan as it departs.

After a brief high-speed chase, Ms. Ferrell pulled over again and this time she was successfully detained. Two “bowls” for marijuana were reportedly recovered from the vehicle.

Naturally, the Web is already buzzing with various opinions on this incident, so we might as well add our own. To begin with, the actions of the officer who fired shots into the minivan were certainly incorrect, but there’s nothing in the video to suggest that he knew he was firing at children. What he probably knew was that another cop had been attacked by people who were departing in the van. In most states, if you attack a cop and then drive away, they’re likely to shoot at you. There’s nothing terribly surprising about this.

The majority of the blame for the situation has to be laid at Ms. Ferrell’s feet. She knowingly fled a traffic stop, and when confronted about it, started yapping about “I just want to take my kids to the Rio Grande.” This is the action of someone who is either mentally impaired or deliberately attempting to mislead or confuse the cop. She resists arrest and then encourages or at least fails to prevent her children from attacking the officer. Speaking personally for a moment, I have to consider the 14-year-old kid’s wanna-be thuggin’ move of dramatically removing one of his multiple hats before attacking the cop to be an example of the way children internalize the garbage the modern media continually feeds them. Surely he never considered his mother to be in actual danger, unless he was also a complete and utter idiot. Any true “bad cop” would have gunned the mother down the minute he had to make a second stop. The kid was simply looking for a chance to attack a police officer. Had the cop responded to the three-way physical assault on him by putting two shots into the chest of all parties involved, it’s doubtful that he’d have been charged with anything. In the video, you can clearly see the son trying to obtain control of the cop’s weapon. That’s a killing offense, plain and simple, almost tantamount to the so-called “blue suicide”.

At least three members of that family clearly have zero respect for authority and view the police as plain enemies to be confronted as violently as possible. They’re frankly lucky to be alive. And while the cop who shot at the minivan earns no points for intelligence or training — how could any reasonable and educated police officer think an overloaded minivan is going to escape a group of Crown Vics plus Motorola? — it will be difficult to argue that he knowingly endangered any children.

As you might expect, much of the coverage and discussion on the matter so far is playing-up the race angle — one Gawker commenter moaned that “New Mexico, the family was black , of course shots were fired into a vehicle full of children, black children don’t rate to white cops.” Other commenters elsewhere have noted that this is a state where walking all tight-assed in front of cops can get you anally raped in a hospital. Some people are also suggesting that Ms. Ferrell decided to flee because the officer making the original stop demanded a cash payment for the ticket. Regardless of the particulars of the case, in this situation I believe even the most pro-police-state and anti-rogue-cop people can agree: there was enough idiocy to go around.

Get the latest TTAC e-Newsletter!

112 Comments on “Police Officer Shoots At Minivan Full Of Children, Some Of Whom Have Recently Attacked Fellow Officer...”

  • avatar

    Baruth > Hammurabi

    • 0 avatar

      14 year old kids aren’t children. From an evolutionary perspective they are grown up.. Its only our society that extends childhood – its not part of nature.

      • 0 avatar

        Their bodies may be nearly developed, but their brains aren’t – particularly the prefrontal cortex, critical for judgment.

        Of course, attacking a police officer is pretty damn stupid whatever your age.

        • 0 avatar

          “Their bodies may be nearly developed, but their brains arent particularly the prefrontal cortex, critical for judgment.”

          This keeps getting trotted out by armchair psychiatrists like it’s some sort of blanket justification for people acting like idiots. While it may not be “fully developed” that does not mean said person just out-and-out lacks the ability to make a reasoned decision. It especially makes me bristle when people try to use it to justify considering a 25-year-old a “child.”

          you’re a f***ing idiot if you attack a person who carries a gun for a living. “Pre-frontal cortex” doesn’t even enter into it.

      • 0 avatar

        I agree, but I fail to see how this impacts Baruth being greater than Hammurabi.

        Actually John Taylor Gatto has some interesting thoughts on the subject of children vs adults in terms of development and how he believes society essentially extends childhood much longer than it should/used too.

        • 0 avatar

          Based on known, objective facts, Jack’s conclusory statement that it was justifiable to fire a handgun into, and presumably at, the driver in this case, is nothing quite the invitation for the use of excessive force by police.

          Had an officer been in the path of the vehicle, and thus, in imminent danger of serious bodily injury or death, this would be a significantly different situation justifying such a response.

          We all get that the woman is an apparent loser & miscreant, who is contributing to our social decay by her behavior and the apparent manner by which she’s raising her children.

          We also get trampoline work incredibly frustrating precisely because of situations such as these, dealing people such as these.

          That’s fairly obvious.

          What should also be fairly obvious to anyone with an ounce of common sense is that summary executions by LEOs upon pot harboring, eluding suspects, even with miscreant offspring on board, is a pretty scary social OR legal standard of acceptance if we wish to avoid capitulating whatever it is that we have left of what were our civil liberties under a constitutional framework to the police state.

          • 0 avatar

            edit – Jack didn’t expressly advocate that it was justifiable to fire into the van in this case, and under these circumstances, on 2nd reading.

            In actually apparently attempting to disprove of this action, he merely insinuated that driver’s who attempt to elude police should know that “stuff happens,” and they may be executed after all (wink wink).

  • avatar

    Even in Grand Theft Auto the cops shoot at you for attacking them, what makes anyone think they wouldn’t in real life?

  • avatar

    “Speaking personally for a moment, I have to consider the 14-year-old kids wanna-be thuggin move of dramatically removing one of his multiple hats before attacking the cop to be an example of the way children internalize the garbage the modern media continually feeds them.”

    Who’s playing up the race angle?

    • 0 avatar

      From what I can see in the video, it is a fairly accurate description of what is happening, followed by a ‘guess’ that this behaviour comes because of garbage modern media? Where does the race angle come in?

    • 0 avatar

      You, by suggesting that wanna-be thuggin’ is reserved exclusively for Americans of African decent. Caucasian-Americans have been allowed to wanna-be thug since at least 1998:

    • 0 avatar

      It’s pretty hard to ignore the racial component here.

      Black family vs. light-skinned cop: really, there are very few other possible motivations (mental issues, criminal behavior and/or intoxication) for the mother’s behavior.

      Personally, I believe she either felt threatened by a Caucasian with a gun, or she thought the race card could protect her from her own disrespectful attitude and abject stupidity.

      She – and the little thug, my extrapolation – are lucky to be alive today. The rest of society would probably have been better off with them removed from the gene pool.

    • 0 avatar

      The 14 year old is playing up the race angle, if you looked at the video!

    • 0 avatar

      No, he’s actually being generous. In actuality, they’re not internalizing the garbage the modern media continually feeds them. They’re internalizing the garbage they see in their own culture. It’s PC to blame the media but this really ignores the problem.

  • avatar
    George B

    Oriana Ferrell clearly started this incident, but the cops used the wrong tools to end it. They had 3 Ford Crown Vics to stop the minivan from moving or at least quickly force it off the road. It’s unacceptable to vent frustration by shooting into the back of the car. At best it does nothing and at worst it could kill passengers that are not a threat.

  • avatar

    That sure escalated quickly. The mother’s behavior not only put the officers’ lives in danger, but she also endangered the lives of the children as well. Although the firing officers’ actions is to be condoned, police officers are trained to expect anything, including a 14 year-old theoretically firing a concealed weapon through the tinted rear windows.

  • avatar

    I don’t mean to tell you how to run your site or run your articles, but you need to clearly point out that there were 5 children in that vehicle some as young as 6 years old, it is clearly written to mislead people into thinking there is only the older child or older children. The officers knew this as he had pulled them over prior, therefore at no damn point should that vehicle have been fired upon. Were she and the 14 year old idiots? absolutely, but this could have been handled with roadblocks. They had no weapons, they knew they had no weapons and no lives were in danger once they took off. Even the smashing of the window was highly irresponsible and could have harmed the small children inside unless you don’t think broken glass flying at a high rate into a vehicle full of kids is no big deal.

    Quite frankly given the history that black people have had with police officers in the history of this country, I think it is a little remiss of you to blow off her and her child’s possible fear of the officers. I mean nothing bad has happened to black people at the hands of white police officers in this country, right?

    From what I have seen on the video, if he had shot the stupid 14 year old, he would have been justified, the kid was dumb and he attacked him, end of story. However it is an absolute lie when you stated the 14 year old tried to gain control of the officer’s weapon, that never happened. The officer’s weapon was holstered and they were grabbing at each other’s hands, he never put his hands anywhere near the weapon. I watched it and re-watched it about 10 times just to make sure.

    You can’t just gun down people by the way like the old days, there are these things called dash cams and bystanders with cameras, they know they are there and they know they are recording them and are being used. All that it does is separate the bad cops that don’t care the camera is on from the ones that do. A better argument that he was not a bad cop was that he did not shoot the 14 year old when he was running back to the van after their tussle.

    I also think it is highly irresponsible of you to imply that the little girl has zero respect for authority. She is watching her mother crying and screaming and being manhandled by a police officer and her brother rushing out and getting into the fray. Maybe she is scared and does not know what is going on and her natural instinct is to try to help her mother? She looks to be about maybe 10 years old, are you telling me you were the master of good judgment and the be all and know it all of how to handle high stress situations when you were 10 years old? She is acting scared and confused and grabbing for her mother and her hand, not another lie like you are trying to say that she was attacking the officer.

    The question that needs to be asked is what really happened? She stopped the first time and then she stopped a second time. If she was this dastardly criminal, she would either not have stopped the first time or not have stopped the second time. Obviously something happened that made her nervous enough to take off not once but twice.

    • 0 avatar

      Referring to a 14 year old as a “thug” was the icing on the cake here.

      You know, I don’t think TTAC has changed at all, despite the “promise” to fix things after Bertel’s shit-storm.

      • 0 avatar
        Jack Baruth

        To be correct, I referred to his *behavior* as “wanna-be thuggin’ “, which is a semantic distance so far from “referring to a 14 year old as a thug” that you can’t see one side from the other.

        I suppose that, had I wrote that the kid was “attempting to portray Richard III in a school play” that you would have written “Referring to a 14-year-old as a ‘hunchbacked king’ was the icing on the cake here.”

        • 0 avatar

          Gotta go with JB on this one.. they asked for and received what they had coming. This “kid” was obviously never taught respect.

          • 0 avatar

            it’s not about respect, it’s about a 14-year-old being too stupid to realize *you don’t start a fight with a guy who carries a gun for a living.*

            kids in general are idiots, but this takes it to a new level.

        • 0 avatar

          Yeah, thats just you being slick. If the occupants of the vehicles had been white, I bet the language of the article, and your assumptions about the motivation and intent of the 14 year old would have been a little different.

          • 0 avatar

            The imputation that Mr. Baruth is a racist, or that he allows the race of the people whom he writes about to affect his perception of them as human beings is indecent. I believe that you owe Jack an apology.

            FWIW, if I were to read the phrase “thug wannabe”, to be honest, I’d likely assume that it’s describing some white kid using what he thinks are the affectations of urban black youths.

          • 0 avatar

            Can’t see a button reply to Mr. Schreibers’ comment so I will follow up on my own. I do think some of the language and assumptions in this article were unfortunate and unnecessary. The 14 year was just looking for a chance to assault an officer because that’s what what wanna-be-thugs want, right? And the little sister, wanna-be-thug also? I think it’s enough to say this was a case of unbelievable stupidity on the the part of the mother which lead to the instinctive reaction of her children to protect her.

            If I see any any angle here it’s in many of the dash-cam traffic stops I’ve seen females seem to think a male cop won’t get physical with them. Indeed in this case, he used extraordinary restraint, and I am surprised he didn’t put her on the ground and cuff her immediately after pulling her over the second time.

          • 0 avatar

            The reality is that RACE does affect our opinions of others. Maybe it should, maybe it shouldn’t, but that is reality. Race also gets very much mixed up and mixed in with class in this country.

            As I mentioned in the carjacking post, I am African American. But I am African-American in the same way that President Obama is – my father was a mixed race man (“colored” as they say there) from South Africa, and my Mother is a white woman from Maine. I have curly hair and medium dark skin, but I was raised in a preppy suburb, have a graduate degree and certainly would not come across anything like these folks in the van, or the various sorts you see on a show like Cops (which of course only ever shows the very worst). My kid half brother on the other hand, same Mother, father was a black guy from the bad part of Indianapolis (and probably THE most racist person I have ever known), is a big, bald/shaved head, inked-up thug looking guy. He is frankly kind of scary looking. He had a very different upbringing (I was raised by my relatively wealthy white Grandparents, he was raised by our Mother and his father until they divorced, then by out mother as a single parent), and while I would never in a million years even THINK about mouthing off to a cop, he certainly would. And he has an extensive police record, though he has married a great woman and is turning his life around. Slowly.

            So is it a race thing, or is it a class thing? I know I look at my own brother very differently because of how he looks, talks, and acts, and I think less of him because of it. Police officers are people first, and cops second.

            This was a bit of a ramble but I hope my point came across.

        • 0 avatar

          If you failed to learn by 14 to *not* assault a police officer or anyone else for that matter than something has gone wrong. How this behavior is culturally characterized is ultimately irrelevant.

        • 0 avatar

          Helluva counterargument, Jack. And spot-on.

        • 0 avatar

          When I was 14, I knew plenty of wannabe thugs. Most of them were white. I don’t see Jack’s use of the expression as racial in this context.

        • 0 avatar

          At the very least, the use of the expression “wanna-be thuggin’“ made it clear that the assailant was black. It also suggests that you believe that his race was relevant to his behavior.

          If your intention was to be race-neutral, then using that sort of loaded terminology wasn’t the way to do it.

    • 0 avatar

      When was the vehicle searched and no weapons found?

    • 0 avatar

      “I mean nothing bad has happened to black people at the hands of white police officers in this country, right?”

      And nothing bad has happened to white police officers at the hands of black people, right?

    • 0 avatar
      DC Bruce

      “Clearly point out that there were 5 children in the vehicle” ???? The first graph describes the vehicle as a “minivan full of children.” The article never condones the cop firing shots at the vehicle.

      So, perhaps a little remedial reading class is in order . . . or is this a case of reading what you want to read in order to make a point you want to make?

    • 0 avatar

      I mistrust police in the way that only someone who has witnessed them commit armed robery and kick and spit on the corpse of someone they likely blackmailed into participating in a sting against a drug dealer can. But I don’t believe that a minivan is not a dangerous weapon. If the LEO was firing at the left rear tire to slow the dangerous minivan, would that make it OK? Who was endangering the kids? The mother is not blameless. The officer who first stopped her and then exercised all that restraint deserves a medal. The one who fired? That needs to be looked into. I’m not decided on whether or not he’s an idiot until I see where the bullets went.

    • 0 avatar

      “you need to clearly point out that there were 5 children in that vehicle some as young as 6 years old, it is clearly written to mislead people into thinking there is only the older child or older children.”

      The headline made it clear that the minivan had kids in it. Were you too busy typing to read the article?

    • 0 avatar

      What kind of neighborhood do you live in?

  • avatar

    Oh goody. More anti – police drivel on the equivalent of the autos section of the Huffington Post.


    Is the internal investigation even over yet? What exactly is the New Mexico state statue on when a peace officer can use deadly force?

    Hey Jack, we recently had a case here in Minneapolis where some officers had the audacity to shoot a black guy that was physically fighting with them and during the struggle had control of their evil AR-15. One of the responding officers got into a crash and a civilian was killed.

    Twist that one into a TTAC ‘anti police’ piece.

    Our local papers are The Pioneer Press and the failed liberal paper, The Minneapolis Star Tribune. They coveted it along with our local news stations. I’m looking forward to reading it.

    • 0 avatar

      Did you even read the article? I think Jack did a good job pointing out the idiotic behaviour on both sides of this situation.

    • 0 avatar

      “One of the responding officers got into a crash and a civilian was killed.”

      A jack*ss power tripping cop racing to a situation under control killed a civilian. I do no know how you present that in a way that is not critical of the police.

      Police unions are incredibly powerful, and they are creating a situation where there are way too many cops with way too much power and way too little accountability.

      The country can only support so many college drop out high school *ssholes making six figures until they retire at 50 with six figure pensions. The recent New Mexico police anal rape case shows how out of control the police have become.

      In this situation the cops actually acted well (although the footage of the chase is missing) except for the Johnny-come-lately moron that fired into the van.

      He should be fired to spare the government future lawsuits resulting from his stupidity, but likely wont be because of police unions, which keep more worthless idiots employed than the UAW ever did.

      • 0 avatar

        “Johnny-come-lately moron”

        This. The last cop on the scene, who knew the least about the situation, decides to open fire.

        To spare the taxpayers the expense of future lawsuits, judgments for misconduct and civil rights violations should be paid for out of PBA funds. If that reduces your pension to a once-a-month Happy Meal, oh well. Regulate your own.

      • 0 avatar

        Racing to the scene? He was doing between 16 and 17 MPH with his emergency lights activated.

        And here is another inconvenient fact for you…the officer was RAN INTO by the non-licensed motorcycle operator.

        But don’t lets facts spoil your irrational hatred of the police.

  • avatar

    “They had no weapons, they knew they had no weapons and no lives were in danger once they took off.”

    You are joking right?
    That woman should not be alowed to have children.
    Shes stupid and have obviously learned her children to act stupid.

  • avatar

    The mother, Oriana Ferrell, put her children in this dangerous situation, and is ultimately accountable. Through her resistance, she’s teaching her children that it’s acceptable to challenge police officers.

    It’s simple ignorance and disrespect.

    Should be interesting to watch this play out.

  • avatar

    Defender of hamsters but never their neighbor.

  • avatar

    Whil respecting the opinion of the editorial, there were no less than three police crusiers on site. there was (as far as I can tell) no reasonable groudns for suspecting weapons of any sort were at risk of being used. children were known to be in the vehicle, and there was pretty much zero chance of a minivan full of kids escaping a bracket of high powered police crusiers.

    Despite the fact that one of the officers was attacked by two juveniles, where, exactly was the rationale behind discharging a firearm at a fleeing vehicle?

    yes, I realize that’s easy to (literally in this case) play monday morning quarterback, but police officers are trained and paid to stand in harm’s way. Firing at unarmed civilians in a minvan that has no chance of escape is not acceptible.

  • avatar

    There was no real reason to even chase the van. Just follow at the speed limit. Cops knew who she was and there’s no escaping a felony warrant. Firing at the van was unthinkable.

  • avatar

    Bottom line, you need to STOP and for the most part, obey when pulled over.
    I am sick of the black against white thing. How come it is never a car full of white kids and a black officer doing the shooting? This will only make the news due to the minorities involved. It is not ok to disobey and disrespect the law because you are black/white or green, for that matter.

    A recent case here where I live, a 20 yr old was pulled over and ran from the cops. He ended up in a field where he lost control of his car but did not STOP. His only exit was where he entered and the cops were there waiting. He still wouldn’t stop and they subsequently filled the car with bullets. Amazingly, this kid lived and suffered no long lasting injury (how, I do not know). He was convicted and sentenced to four years.

    I do not blame the police one bit for things that may happen when people start acting with disrespect, disregard and make bad decisions when pulled over. There are far too many morons out there and these cops have to deal with them, not us.
    They are not paid enough to put their lives on the line dealing with $hitheads like this one here. Enough with the race card too.. That shit really pisses me off. Act like a human for f**k sake.

    I see it and hear it all the time how “Ol Whitey” is to blame for everything.
    Please, none of those complaining have ever missed a meal; they wear better clothes and live better than I do.. ya, so hard to be you..

  • avatar

    Wow ;

    This woman needs her Children taken away before she gets them all killed .
    As a Foster parent of teenaged black boys , I get to see and deal with the result of the mess women like this choose to make , on a daily basis .
    I feel badly for all involved as no one will leave this without damage .


    • 0 avatar

      IMO, she’s already killed that 14-year old. Any kid that age that thinks It’s OK to go after a cop like that is a statistic just waiting to hit the books.

    • 0 avatar

      The more comments by Nate I read, the more I think of him.

      A guy who walks the walk, still has a sense of humor and is not all wrapped up in trying to show the world what a badass he is.

      Good man.

      • 0 avatar

        @ Fordson :

        Thank you .

        I thought about responding to this most of last night .

        # 1. DFCS says if we get _one_ out of _five_ Foster boys to adulthood & out of the system alive and not in jail , dead or on drugs , we’re way ahead of the curve .

        I find this attitude intolerable ~ they’re just _KIDS_ FGS ! ~ even that 14 YO in the video and let’s be honest , he’s a thug or a wannabe by his actions and facial expression , is only a _fourteen_year_old_child_ , no way he has the experience and guidance to understand the consequences of making decisions like the incredibly foolish one he made there .

        Children need limits and will always seek boundaries , that’s what all the wild yelling and ” ! FU*CK YOU ! ” you see and hear about is , nothing to get riled up about , just draw the line and stand firm ~ I did this raising my Son in The Ghetto alone after his mother bugged out when he was 12 and I do it daily with our teenaged Foster boys . because they know I actually give a shyte , they listen and judge my words , actions & position against the rap crap and video games , hostile wannabe thug crap they hear daily @ school and so on , are able to figure it out and do well in spite of the bad hands they’ve been dealt in life .

        I’m pleased to say that this past April we had FOUR High School graduations , three went off to College and one is in L.A. Trade Technical School , I think all will do O.K. in life .

        # 2. I’m still waiting to see _anywhere_ of a Police Officer earning over $53,000 / year ~ I know they losers and haters here love to lie and say ” 20 easy years then retire on a six figure pension ” but it simply isn’t so ~ sure the brass may get $80,000 ~ $100,000 but the On The Street Cop who deals daily literally in sh*t , dope , violence and are often outgunned by the bad guys , DO NOT GET BIG $ so please stop lying and making real Conservatives like me and most Blue Suits , look bad . they eat sh*t for 20 years then retire with serious trust issues for the most part on under $30,000 / year , that’s good but it ain’t big $ like you like to make out .

        # 3. I’m not (IMO) any sort of [email protected] , I’m just another Blue Collar guy who wears my working class duds with great pride . I was pretty wild as a yoot and am lucky to be alive to-day , now it’s my turn to give back .

        Yes I carried a gun when I was younger but the blush goes right off that rose as soon as you’re there when someone _dies_ ~ I know it’s easy to talk big and brag about how ” I’da just blown his @$$ away with my Magnum” but the guys who says this , invariably have never been in any fight much less a firefight .

        They’re some scary sh*t lemme tell you .

        # 4. Fordson Tractors , very cool indeed ~ I was an ‘A’ Model man for years and I used to help maintain the 1939 39N Ford tractor used in the L.A.P.D.’s firing range to scoop up the spent brass , yes they shoot that much to need a tractor to keep after it all .

        Whew ~ this is way too long .

        I hope all those poor kids in that van get the help they’ll surely need to become productive American citizens .


        • 0 avatar

          Bring it, Nate

        • 0 avatar

          Nate, officers in my borough start at $70,000 (without overtime) and very little police work is needed. I know this because my brother is desperately trying to get into it from the city police who start at $27/hr and change (without overtime) once they get out of the academy and receive their first raise. However your points about the stuff street cops put up with is well taken and very true for most officers (not to mention all of the hypocrisy, incompetence, and corruption you run into with your dept and city gov’t). The situation in New Mexico is indeed tragic for all involved, hopefully the children can straighten themselves out before they themselves wind up in jail or the morgue.

          • 0 avatar

            Back to one point : $70K On Duty means $35K in retirement , that’s a _LONG_ ways from a ” six figure retirement package ” .

            I truly wish I could send the Cop haters to the sh*tholes I lived in where there are NO Cops or the few are 100 % corrupt ~ then the cowards & haters would be singing a different tune .

            Yes I was raised Down East in the bad old days when it seemed the honest Cop was the rare thing but the perception is always far from the actual truth .


          • 0 avatar

            Less hate. More Nate.

          • 0 avatar

            I can’t speak to the borough’s retirement it might indeed suck, I know my brother’s pension would be along those lines and as of now his won’t include healthcare. The saddest part is despite the amount of the pensions, local gov’ts cannot afford to operate solely on tax revenue and have to take out bonds to cover annual costs (let alone pensions).

            In these sort of incidents I think the problem is a societal one, everyone always criticizes the cops and never the ones at fault. Where are the cries from pundits over the gross negligence of the mother and the fact she had *drugs* in the van? The mother is ultimately at fault and should do the hardest time there is for putting children at risk… but it’s much easier to criticize the officer (who apparently isn’t human and doesn’t experience the same emotions we all would in a situation).

            On the last point from what I understand the beat cops by and large aren’t the ones guilty of corruption, its higher up the food chain.

          • 0 avatar

            By my logic, a “six-figure package” isn’t determined by the size of its annual benefit, but rather by the size of its private-sector equivalent.

            Let’s assume Officer Fictional retires at 55 and passes on at 75 — that’s a payout of $700K. Turn that into a 401(k), adjust down for investment income and up for risk, and you’re still talking well north of half a million.

            For comparison, the average Chicago PD pension is $62K at age 58, or a total payout of $2.5M.

      • 0 avatar


        • 0 avatar

          @ thelaine

          ” Less hate. More Nate. ”

          O.K. , I get it : I’m making a fool of my old self again in public , right ? .

          Sorry guys .


          • 0 avatar

            I’m sorry to be so trite Nate. I was not being the least bit sarcastic. I very much appreciate your comments and point of view. Experience is the best teacher and it is not always easy to share personal experiences. Thank you for what you do and for taking the time to contribute.

  • avatar

    The cops are clearly acting like cowards.

    On the other hand, this is United States, where civilians are armed to the teath.

  • avatar

    You could essentially equate the other younger children in the vehicle to hostages being held by the criminals in the vehicle. Child hostages don’t deserve to be shot. Very poor judgement on the part of that officer.

  • avatar

    We read of the 14 year old confronting the policeman. What about the other kids? How many and how old were they?

  • avatar
    Larry P2

    “Two bowls for marijuana were reportedly recovered from the vehicle.”

    This is a part of the story that demands further analysis. For modern cops, armed to the teeth and envisioning themselves as the warriors in the War on Drugs, “civilians” are viewed as hostile enemy combatants, to be subdued by rapid use of escalating force.

    This is one of the reasons that alcohol prohibition was eventually repealed: The levels of violence spawned by that unwise Prohibition 1 just became unacceptable. In Chicago, rum runners and the police would frequently race through town, hosing each other down with Tommy Guns before horrified onlookers diving for cover.

    Prohibition 2 is far worse. 90,000 Mexicans have been murdered in this latest incarnation, many of them beheaded in grizzly snuff films and their severed heads rolled into horrified wedding parties like bowling balls.

    As the police and drug barons become equally militarized in this absolutely senseless battle, we can soon expect running tank battles in the inner cities.

    • 0 avatar

      Maybe the woman wasn’t too crazy about the impending, lengthy anal and vaginal cavity searches that were about to commence, something the police in New Mexico seem fond of performing. She knew what was coming, and all over a couple bowls of grass.

      As for the running tank battles, that’s soon to come as police departments prepare by buying up surplus MRAP (Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected armored personnel carriers) from the Iraq and Afghanistan occupations. The declaration of martial law is nearly here.

  • avatar
    Silent Ricochet

    Just another bunch of thugs with a blatant disregard for the law and the safety of others. Just pull over and take the speeding ticket. Instead their incessant hatred for the police (driven by a false notion in the minority community that cops are racists) caused them to almost get themselves and others killed. Good riddance. Of course, this’ll be spun for months to come by the media as an excessive use of force by racist white cops. Wouldn’t be surprised if mom gets off with a slap on the wrist while the officers involved get suspended.

    As for the police officer firing his weapon at the vehicle, there was no need. No immediate threat to any bystanders or the officers standing on the side of the vehicle. It seems that he was trying to shoot out the tire, which I understand, but it wasn’t needed. As Baruth noted, you can’t out run the radio. Or the Crown Vics either in this case.

    • 0 avatar
      Larry P2

      This cannot be characterized as mere typical narrative of “white cop on black civilian.”

      Marijuana prohibition was from the start a deeply racist national policy. The first Federal drug czar laid out the basis of marijuana prohibition in the 30’s by testifying in Congress that weed causes “(black) men to lust after white women.” and “causes Nexicans to become violent.”

      And the modern incarnation, formulated one night while President Nixon and Art Linkletter got themselves good and drunk, was based on the idea that and escalated and intensified drug prohibition would assist in dealing with the “Jew, faggot and hippie” problems.

      A car load of black people with some weed? The way cops are trained nowadays, you just threw a couple of gallons of blood in front of a pack of sharks.

  • avatar
    Larry P2

    Once the Drug War is mercifully ended, the American police industry will probably have to undergo a painful, introspective systematic self-evaluation much like the American military did post-Vietnam.

    The police dug themselves into this hole on their own free volition. They are the grownups in a situation like this. And time and time again, they have advocated for, and litigated for incredibly destructive relaxations of Constitutional Protections. They have lobbied hard against, and spent enormous amounts of money to stem the inevitable legalization movement. Like it or not, they are now viewed as the enemy by large swaths of the population. They have largely earned the undisguised hatred that they are now reaping.

    Even among their former strongest and and most unstinting supporters – conservative Law and Order Republicans – their tactics have become so extreme and outrageous, on conservative websites they are being routinely savaged and trashed. Its just jaw-dropping amazing to read some of those conservative blogs: It would have taken a lot to alienate a unequivocally-pro police group like that, but the police have brilliantly succeeded in doing the nearly impossible.

    By now, just about everybody knows intuitively that at the very least, marijuana prohibition has absolutely nothing to do with protecting the public.

  • avatar
    DC Bruce

    Of course, the woman’s conduct is indefinsible . . . and the proffered justification that she did it because she wanted to avoid an unpleasant body cavity search is risible. Assuming that such searches are routine, how is the woman’s conduct going to do anything but make the situation much worse.

    It appears that the cops here “lost their cool.” You can hear it in their voices. Like everyone else, when cops lose their cool, they do stupid things; and, since they’re armed, they do dangerous and stupid things . . . such as firing at a fleeing vehicle. Did the cop have any idea how difficult it is to shoot out the tire of a fleeing vehicle (assuming that was his intent) and how much more likely it would be that he injured someone inside?

    Seems like a lot more training is in order here . . . training which involves doing things to the cops that would make them angry . . . and then having the learn not to be angry, not to make this personal. Difficult I know, but these guys don’t seem to be doing much better with the situation than a random collection of civilian males would do.

  • avatar

    Just hope she’s still reproducing

  • avatar

    Agree with the position that no one is without fault in this situation. In my day job I do quite a bit of risk management. My immediate thoughts are:

    1: When he stops her the second time, and she gets out of the car, why doesn’t the officer put her right in the back of the squad car? She’s safe, the car is immobile, and he can use his de-escalation training to reassure the kids and let mom calm down.

    2: When backup arrives (to a scene where the driver has already flown once, why don’t they put 1 crown vic on the front bumper and 1 on the rear? Car is immobilized, no one can hurt themselves, de-escalate from there.

    As I said, I am the most civil of civilians, but I have had the misfortune of arriving first at a few traffic and industrial accidents. First question is: What is still dangerous, and how can I remove the danger/control the hazard. Don’t walk to the crashed car until you’ve stopped traffic, don’t tend to the victim until you’ve stopped the machine, etc.

    There is a definite failure of training here. Either the police haven’t had the right training to effectively manage hazards, or they forgot how to do it.

    • 0 avatar
      Larry P2

      You erroneously assume that a). Police have been trained to deescalate; b). That they WANT to deescalate.

      If anything, police today rapidly escalate even the most innocuous situation. They are trained to be absolutely paranoid about their own personal safety, which is nowadays their highest priority. Any twitch or sideways glance is assumed to be “furtive,” and an indication of hostile intent, and a possible initiation of immediate combat with the enemy.

      I practiced criminal defense law for 19 years, and one of the most disturbing things I was confronted with over the years was the obvious sea change in the attitude of the police towards those they are charged with protecting. Choose 100 police reports randomly from 1995 and then choose another 100 at random from 2013. You will immediately see a jaw-dropping, extremely radical change in police attitudes. You will not be able to miss the effect of an incredible cult-like brainwashing (called “training”) that openly encourages a belligerently-hostile, militaristic, hair trigger, escalate-first-and-ask-questions-later attitude.

      This is not a “failure of training.” This is the RESULT of training.

      • 0 avatar

        Police treating the underclass like trash isn’t news. They always have, they always will. That’s their job.

        What confuses things is American egalitarianism. We don’t have a clear line where the underclass ends and that’s further muddied by lip service to the notion that that underclass should be treated like people. That isn’t usually followed very far, because as noble an idea as it is the actual implementation means treating people with jobs like trash too.

        The sea change in law enforcement is a reflection of the sea change in American culture. If I were neck deep in it, instead of reading about it on the internet and turning it off when it comes on TV, I’d go into situations with one hand on the gun too.

        • 0 avatar
          Larry P2

          There really hasn’t been a sea change in American culture. One of the BIG problems police have nowadays is the omnipresent video camera. In 1995, even a dash cam in a police car was rare, although they were starting to install them. For the most part, there was no way of double-checking what they did while nobody was looking, versus how they testified about it in court. Now the public can see for themselves what their public servants are up to.

          And for the most part, people do not like what the police have become.

          Hopefully, I made it clear that my opinion was based – that the police have been brainwashed into resorting instantly to brutality – strictly on police reports. I take them at their word that things happened exactly the way they claimed. In 1995, you simply did not have highly-militarized SWAT teams employing extreme violence, automatic weapons and brutality executing marijuana search warrants the way you do in 2013. You simply did not have police reports in 1995 reeking of frenzied-paranoia, with instantaneous deployment of rough force. In 1995, you simply did not have five police officers show up on a routine traffic stop, and aggressively force the occupants to submit, almost a litmus test of whether or not lethal force would be used.

          For the most part, in 1995 the police would treat the Mexican mafia one way. Now they treat everyone that way.

        • 0 avatar

          If American culture hasn’t changed much then I’d like to move where you live.

          By every measurable statistic – income inequality and shrinking of the middle class, divorce and bastard child rearing, massive unskilled immigration, prison population, church attendance, you name it – this isn’t the country I grew up in.

          The unmeasurables of violence, vulgarity, disrespect in all things music and culture are changing just as fast. Caroline wrote an article about a carjacking the other day. Meanwhile there’s no article about Grand Theft Auto 5, the most realistic carjacking simulator yet, which made a billion dollars in 3 days.

          Mayberry cops were a product of Mayberry citizens.

  • avatar

    Citizen Komrade,

    The actions of the Polizei of The State and the Ministry of Justice and Propaganda have been reviewed. Please be advised that Agents of The Law are experts on The Law and you suspend all “Constitutional” Freedoms and Liberties once you are engaged by the Polizei. Failure to yield is considered a High Crime against The State, our Beneficent Leaders, and you are judged guilty where you stand. Agents of The Law are advised to use various methods at their disposal to detain, re-educate, incapacitate, or terminate you at their discretion.

    Your safety is paramount to Us. OBEY Us and ensure the safety of yourself, others, and our Great Democracy.

    Ministry of Justice and Propaganda

    P.S. Please do not hesitate to report your neighbors to Us if you suspect them to be perpetrating activities against the well being of our Great Democracy.

  • avatar

    A 39 year old, black, single mom and her five children from Tennessee get pulled over in Northern New Mexico in New Mexico. I can only imagine the scenario.

    For whatever reason, a traffic stop becomes a major drama, freaks out the local highway patrol and allegedly results in one stupid highway patrolman shooting at the rear of minivan with children inside.

    The local version is “a colleague fired three rounds at the rear tires in an attempt to keep the vehicle from leaving, Still a stupid move in my view, but let’s move on.

    Two marijuana pipes were found, when the vehicle was eventually searched.

    Did the woman flee and get rid of some weed or whatever during the 4 mile chase?

    The local news version is worth a read.

    Google, “Tennessee mother indicted for high-speed chase through Talpa”

    I’ve been through that part of New Mexico a lot. It pretty peaceful there.

    I got a feeling that this family something to with creating their own karma in the Land of Enchantment.

    • 0 avatar

      I didn’t pick up that she was from Tennessee until I read your post and the first thing I thought was “.shes gotta be from Memphis..” And sure enough “yep” stereotype confirmed.

      First off let me state unequivocally that officer Tackleberry , last to arrive and first to fire, is in the wrong. Bad shoot all around, full stop. Irrelevant but John Q Public would be facing charges if he did that.

      Clearly Ms. Ferrel and the Ferrel children (ironic huh?) have never paid attention to the philosophic musing of Mr Chris Rock’s treatise “How not to get your ass kicked by the police”.

      Im not even a fan but Had they simply followed his advice none of this would’ve happened.

      Y’all can keep her, Memphis is full.

  • avatar

    I’m surprised no one has mentioned that if the officer who tried to block in the van had better training on how to position the car things would have over much more quickly.

  • avatar

    I can only guess that this escalation looks outrageous seen from most civilised countries. There was no reason to smash in the windows like that, and no reason to fire shots.

    • 0 avatar
      Larry P2

      All too often, the police nowadays justify the worst behavior on a throwaway line out of a US Supreme Court police brutality case that excused the use of deadly force in that particular situation, and the court’s reluctance to second guess their behavior, based on the “fact” that police have to make “split second decisions.”

      The police took that case and ran with it, and now clearly deploy it for the most routine, mundane, and peaceful situations. It excuses the most awful and boorish behavior. I have seen the police justify severely beating a hospital patient in her own hospital room (she was following the cop’s order to change out of her hospital clothes and took evasive measures to avoid being seen naked), using that case’s rhetoric. I have seen three police officers make sexual slurs and then repeatedly sexually grope a lone and unarmed female late at night on a traffic stop, justifying their behavior on the “urgency” of the situation (okay, I will concede it was at night).

      It is worth remembering the case that sanctified their “split second decision making” featured violent hand to hand combat with an extremely strong and armed robbery felony suspect with a long prior record of violent felony convictions, with the officer basically pinned to the ground….the suspect succeeding in wresting away the service revolver, and the police officer clearly getting the worst of a savage beating. Those are the facts that justified “split second” decision-making.

      Now, the police use it to excuse tazering an unarmed bicyclist repeatedly for failure to have a light on his bicycle. In my opinion, the dramatic and swift escalation of relatively minor traffic stops by the police is justified on this “split second” mantra, chanted repeatedly cult-like in their training.

      The bullies the profession tends to attract need no such encouragement.

      • 0 avatar

        I really don’t get the angst. If a cop says to do something – DO IT. IMMEDIATELY. In exactly the way he says, without back talk. You can “prove” you where right when you have your day in court. This seems to be an incredibly difficult concept to large numbers of people.

        I have family members who are police officers. Luckily in a pretty quiet and safe town in Maine. But still, their backup is a LONG way away – some nights it is only the state police, and I don’t blame them ONE bit if they don’t take any chances. They have families at home to take care of. And as someone has already pointed out, Americans do tend to be armed to the teeth these days.

        Chris Rock really did sum it up pretty much perfectly. I’ve had a few interactions with the police over my 44 years, and as I have always treated them with the utmost civility, so have I been treated. And I am a black man living in the whitest state in the nation.

        • 0 avatar

          @ KRhodes :

          “I really don’t get the angst. If a cop says to do something – DO IT. IMMEDIATELY. In exactly the way he says, without back talk. You can “prove” you where right when you have your day in court. This seems to be an incredibly difficult concept to large numbers of people.”

          _THIS_ ~

          If you cannot grasp this basic concept , you’re in serious jeopardy .


  • avatar

    I’m no trained cop, but I can recognize that for a fired gun to be effective, you need to have a purpose, a target, and a result if that target is hit. Someone holding a weapon threatening you? The purpose is defense, the target is the attacker, and the result is the attack is stopped. In this case, why was the cop shooting? What was he shooting at? What did he think would happen if he hit it? Has he seen too many movies where a bullet miraculously stops a car?

    The “shooting at children” spin on this case is immaterial as Jack correctly notes he probably didn’t know, but that leads back to the question of what did he think he was shooting at?

    It’s hard to comment on the actions of the family without sounding (or being) racist. I do believe ‘being dumb’ certainly plays a part–I think people run from cops because they’ve seen so many news stories of people running from cops. They fight cops because they’ve seen so many movies, ‘music’ (I use that term loosely) videos, UFC, and who knows what else, that they actually think that’s an appropriate action. They didn’t act intelligently because they lack the intelligence to do so but because they don’t know what “acting intelligently” means. Drugs, of course, make everything worse.

    Do we have racism and discrimination in law enforcement? I strongly believe we do. The system has become heavily stacked against blacks in a real way–not just perception. The statistics on how many black men are in prison is dumbfounding and shocking. But I believe it’s the effect of a vicious circle–so many black men commit crime that it becomes the norm, that leads to bias/bigotry, that leads to discrimination/loss of opportunity, that leads to poverty and crime, that leads to…

    • 0 avatar

      UFC? How did that come to mind before NFL, NBA, NHL, or even MLB? UFC fighters typically show more respect to their opponents, the officials, and the rules of the sport during competition than most professional team sports. NHL is obviously the worst, but it’s not uncommon to see physical attacks and fighting in the others. Former UFC fighter Paul Daley punched Josh Koscheck after the fight was over. The punch caused no significant damage. He was permanently banned from the UFC. After a previous warning and suspension for a less severe incident, Rousimar Palhares held a heel hook too long after Mike Pierce had tapped and the ref had intervened, causing a knee sprain but no severe injury. He was also permanently banned from the UFC. When have you seen a player permanently banned from the major team sports leagues for such minor offenses? When have you seen a UFC fighter disrespect a referee the way that players in the major team sports commonly do?

  • avatar
    Larry P2

    The race angle can be explored from a lot of different perspectives……

    As I mentioned above, the arguments for marijuana prohibition were strictly overtly racist. The implementation of this vicious policy is also racist. More blacks are arrested and convicted for drug charges, despite whites using drugs at higher percentages. Whites are given probation. Blacks are sentenced to prison. Drugs that blacks historically were involved in (crack cocaine) had dramatically high mandatory minimum prison sentences than the form of cocaine that whites used.

    Most tellingly, the police have been brainwashed into a paranoid delusion that they are always in danger. The statistics do not support that. In many years, police work isn’t even among the top ten most dangerous jobs. In some years, it isn’t even in the top 20. The omnipresent digital video camera has not been kind to the police. The public does not identify with the police, when they see videos where the police appear to use excessive force.

    The public fears the police. The police look like, dress like and act like the bad guys. Look at this video of the police dragging the mom into traffic on a busy street, busting out the rear window, then shooting at a minivan with five children in it.

    Over a traffic ticket? The police could have mailed a summons.

    The police have just earned five permanent, committed enemies with that little stunt.

    • 0 avatar

      I think it is safe to say the police (and probably society at large) already had 5 permanent enemies in that van long before it was stopped.

      The sad part is that the children’s biggest enemy is their mother; it looks like she has created little monsters long before this incident took place. It will be far from the last interaction these kids have with the police (and every other criminal justice and social services agency) over the course of their lives.

    • 0 avatar

      LarryP2, you might do a little research to find out which people were front and center in the demand for stricter punishments when people were caught dealing certain types of drugs.

      I’ll give you a hint – it wasn’t white, conservative Republicans.

      • 0 avatar
        Larry P2

        I am well aware that it was the Len Bias incident that gave the modern war on drugs its revitalized legs. Bias was the University of Maryland basketball star who died of a Cocaine overdose, resulting in Nancy Reagan traipsing cross country in her “Just Say No To Drugs” campaign. Tragically, after the Bias family became one of the leading advocates of the brutal present Federal policy of mass-incarceration, there other son was killed in a gang shootout. So I empathize (a little) with the posters who have attacked the mom’s behavior here.

        So where do we go from here? Plenty of libertarian-oriented Republicans (Rand and Ron Paul in particular) are openly advocating for complete legalization, and I keep track of plenty of conservative blogs that are plainly sick and tired of the newest brutal police tactics.

        The biggest obstacles in all of this are the police and prison guard unions. Change will happen, incrementally at best.

        • 0 avatar
          Silent Ricochet

          Larry P2, one starts to wonder, whos side are you really on? Honestly, how much pot have you smoked today? You’re literally trolling the entire conversation, vomiting on any comment that doesn’t concur with your completely unrealistic, anarchist, anti-American, anti-Establishment ideals. I come from a family of police officers (Grandfather, Father, Step Father) who are all excellent men and a person I can only wish to be come as I age. Honestly, where would you be today without law enforcement? Would you even be alive? Your anti-law enforcement remarks and snide liberal attitude are on the verge of offensive.

          • 0 avatar
            Larry P2

            Read the comment section on this blog, in response to an LAPD cop discussing the shooting of a young black man. The site is virtually a cheering squad for the most reflexive conservative politicians and political positions. The scary thing here, and on many other conservative republican web sites is how dramatically the police have alienated their most rock-ribbed supporters:


            BTW, I am strongly opposed to the use of pot and vote Republican.

    • 0 avatar

      This was not over “a traffic ticket”. The woman ran from the police. At that point, the traffic ticket is irrelevant. How is the cop to know why she is running? There could have been a couple of guys with assault weapons lying in the back of the van. Or 500lbs of weed. Once she ran, all civility is out the window. had it been “Good day officer, what can I do for you?”, NONE of this would have happened. She might not even have gotten a ticket.

      I will somewhat agree that the cop trying to shoot out the tires/van has seen too many movies, but I just don’t have it in me to get too awfully worked up about it at that point.

      • 0 avatar

        “Or 500lbs of weed.”

        Sounds dangerous. They could have thrown it at the cops, or something.

        Firing shots at the fleeing van was excessive, but there certainly were moments where the first cop could have justifiably fired shots at the attacking kid.

  • avatar

    Antagonizing a group of men with guns, taking your van full of children on a high speed chase?

    Mother of the year.

    • 0 avatar

      I live in New Mexico. It’s never a good idea to fock with any New Mexico cop. They will shoot you dead and New Mexico law is on their side.

      New Mexico is not one of the sissyfied states of America. New Mexico is an open-carry state where many people openly carry a fire arm. Many more carry concealed. Permits to carry concealed are real easy to get.

      Many people who perpetrated a crime in New Mexico did not live to tell about it and never knew where the shot that nailed them came from. New Mexico law is quite specific about the lawful discharge of any weapon, by anyone who chooses to carry a fire arm.

      These people were lucky to be alive. There is plenty of precedence where cops in New Mexico had to draw their weapons and fire, and those people did not live to tell about it.

  • avatar

    Is the minivan okay? Nothing good ever comes out of fleeing from cops. She and her kid are lucky the cops didn’t Swiss cheese them both.
    O will weigh in later tonight, “If i had a mistress and five kids, they would look like these fine law abiding citizens”

    • 0 avatar

      Yes for a man who is supposedly quite busy leading the free world he seems to find time to weigh in on every little minor occurrence be it the transgressions of an ivy league professor, the need for college playoffs, or the death of a hooded hooligan. He really needs a talk show, think they could work him into The View as a guest host?

  • avatar

    Attn TTAC staff, there is something wrong with the image in this article:

    500 Internal Server Error

    Sorry, something went wrong.

    A team of highly trained monkeys has been dispatched to deal with this situation.
    If you see them, show them this information:


  • avatar

    @ thelaine

    ” I’m sorry to be so trite Nate. I was not being the least bit sarcastic. I very much appreciate your comments and point of view. Experience is the best teacher and it is not always easy to share personal experiences. Thank you for what you do and for taking the time to contribute.”

    You’re not being trite at all .

    I just talk to damn much .

    I was a ‘ throwaway kid ‘ too and I didn’t like it one bit .

    I’m oh so lucky to be alive now , many times the Boston Cops beat me like a red haired stepchild then took the time to explain _why_ it was necessary and only _I_ could make it stop , by simply behaving like a man instead of some wild child .

    Didja know ? there are more b=nerve endings per inch in the soles of your feet than anywhere else on your body ~ that’s why they used to give the Cops Billy Clubs ~ drunks and other miscreants , they’d simply WHACK your soles (shoes on) a few times to get your undivided attention then try to talk to you .

    If you were too stupid to listen , they’d try other approaches but the feet did the trick 9 times out of 10 .


    • 0 avatar


      HA! Your skull is almost as thick as mine. It is funny that the route to your brain ultimately came through your feet!

      It is just nice to see someone with some actual life experience in this area take a minute to contribute, especially when it involves personal experiences. I grew up hating cops too, for reasons similar to your own, but putting it out there is a different story.

      When you deal with it on a daily basis, you have a different perspective. I appreciate your take on these issues.

  • avatar

    As a late comer to this loooooooong conversation, here’s my two cents. Everybody’s at fault. The mom is for resisting arrest or whatever, as well as putting her entire family in Jeopardy for fleeing from cops. (Does this lady realize what cops do if you fight them? Has she never seen the show Cops before?) The teenager’s at fault for fighting with the guy with a gun (the cop). The second responding cop is at fault for not adequately blocking the car, even though he knew the situation was bad, and the last cop is at fault for providing deadly force when he wasn’t in danger. A number of states aim for situation reduction, and shooting at a car isn’t that. I would have liked to see the cops take a more professional attitude, but what happened, happened.

  • avatar

    This issue is based on a ton of factors. You guys here wanna fault a man (young) for coming to the aid of his mother. I don’t give a fuck if its a state sponsored thug or not. He felt his mother was in danger and he acted. The actions of the police is this case are not acceptable at all. They have the guns and the will of you weak minded clowns to do whatever they want. This has to stop. Yes she could have handled this situation better but in the end what she did by leaving the scene was nothing compared to the damage and conflict created by the police.

Read all comments

Back to TopLeave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.

Recent Comments

  • jpolicke: Not sure you want to be splashing around an EV.
  • mcs: ” But even the winners have found themselves wholly dependent upon government-backed. carbon-credit...
  • tankinbeans: Would it be fair to say “Hellcat”ing all the things made me shrug? Is that too old hat. I...
  • Scoutdude: The thing is that they had the Workhorse technology which was supposed to have been out ages ago, but they...
  • golden2husky: I loved my 88 LSC in the burgundy interior/exterior. Quite the step up from the Fury….what ever...

New Car Research

Get a Free Dealer Quote

Who We Are

  • Adam Tonge
  • Bozi Tatarevic
  • Corey Lewis
  • Mark Baruth
  • Ronnie Schreiber