By on October 15, 2013

2014 Chevrolet Camaro Z28

Good news, everybody! The Camaro Z/28 is almost as fast as the Camaro ZL1 on a track that you’d need a 747 Cargo and a spare week to check out for yourself!

You can get most of the details at Road&Track but the most important thing for you to know is the final number of 7:37. This is faster than many cars including the R34 Skyline and slower than many other cars including the Camaro ZL1. Chevrolet spent a week of development and logged a thousand miles to get this time; however, they claim the car could go six seconds faster. I recall making a similar claim after qualifying once during a NASA race at Mid-Ohio. I was laughed at by everyone in the vicinity including the nice older lady who runs the concession stand in the paddock.

“Shut up and take this cheeseburger,” she said, “you’ve had two full sessions to run and you haven’t done any better than 1:44.2 in that Neon.” I still maintain that 1:44.2 is pretty fast around Mid-Ohio for a Neon. But I had a full cage in the car, and I was allowed to run any suspension and tire I could get away with…

Oh, yes. let’s look at the video, shall we?

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73 Comments on “Camaro Blah Blah Ring Time Blah Blah...”


  • avatar
    ajla

    But how fast does it drop the inhibitions of the hostess at Applebees?

  • avatar
    massarchers

    When you said “let’s look at the video…” I thought we were gonna see some hot Neon Mid O action.

  • avatar
    DeadWeight

    Admit it, Jack; if this were done by a Ford Mustang, or any FoMoCo product, you’d be praising the holy hell out of it.

    I don’t even care for the Camaro that much, but the TTAC Ford LOVE is so obvious to any objective reader.

    Ford is the antithesis of Farago-era General Motors on TTAC now.

    • 0 avatar
      Jack Baruth

      For the record, I grew up a Camaro guy. I have loved the Camaro since about the time Mr. Pininfarina did.

      http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009/06/review-chevrolet-camaro-ls1/

      I disapprove of the current Camaro and I disapprove of GM’s attempt to use Burgerkingring times to distract from the fact that the Mustang simply works a thousand times better than the Camaro in the real world.

      I even like the way the Camaro looks. Just lower the beltline six inches so I, a grown f**king man well over six feet tall, can see over the doors. :)

      • 0 avatar
        DeadWeight

        So you don’t want to wait and drive this particular Camaro as spec’d before declaring the Mustang the clear champion?

        C’mon, you can & usually do much better than this.

        • 0 avatar
          anomaly149

          First part of driving is being able to see out of the greenhouse.

          I’m continually amazed at the current Camaro’s ability to make other pony cars, old Cadillacs, CUVs, warehouses, continents, etc look small. There’s a massive difference between road presence and girth: http://thechicaneblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/challengers.jpg

        • 0 avatar
          DeadWeight

          p.s. – “For the record, I grew up a Camaro guy. I have loved the Camaro since about the time Mr. Pininfarina did…” sounds a lot like the whole “I have friends who are gay” thing, too.

          • 0 avatar
            JimothyLite

            @DeadWeight, please! Some of my best friends are Camaros!

          • 0 avatar
            Jack Baruth

            And by extension, that makes the Camaro gay, right? :)

            I can’t see out of the car. I find it deeply unpleasant to operate. It doesn’t matter how fast it is. If I wanted something outrageously fast for $50,000 that I couldn’t see out of, I’d buy an old Formula Atlantic with no rear view mirrors.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Not that there’s anything wrong with that, liking Camaros.

      • 0 avatar
        th009

        A thousand times better, in the real world?

        The last time I had a Mustang rental in NJ, I had trouble accelerating fairly gently from traffic lights without losing traction. This with a V6 model.

        Now, maybe that much-rumoured 2014 with IRS will be different, but the current model was ridiculous on NJ pavement. And it wasn’t even raining.

        • 0 avatar

          Were you mashing the throttle away from every red light? I’ve never had that happen in any V6, press car, rental or privately owned.

          • 0 avatar
            raph

            This, my own Mustang puts a fair bit more to the rear wheels than your typical V6 and I don’t have that sort or problem and I’d rate New Jersey’s pavement no better or no worse than the god’s forsaken roads of Va Beach and Norfolk.

            Painted white stripes or metal tracks in the road are a different story though.

          • 0 avatar
            th009

            “accelerating fairly gently”.

            NJ roads tend to be substantially worse than Toronto. But they are “real world” for a lot of people.

        • 0 avatar
          phlipski

          @JimothyLite – some of MY best friends are black Camaro’s. I’ve also got a few New Beetle friends too – not that there’s anything wrong with that!

      • 0 avatar
        3Deuce27

        Yikes! Kind of an emotional response, Jack… hope everything is okay.

        “Real world” ? Smooth race tracks are not the real world.

        The Camaro and the FWD Kia ‘Optima’ kick the Mustang’s butt in the Perelli World Challenge… Make that the Boss 302R’s butt.

        I spend a bit of time with a Mustang(s)on the track every year tuning suspensions. Even with after market suspensions(tuned) and Summer or race tires, the Mustang is an effective, but rather crude handler.

        Ford has done a pretty good job taming that solid rear axle, starting with the 84′ Mustang SVO, but it still is a buck board tech handler. Big tires and wheels to increase grip just add to the un-suspended weight issues at the rear. Means for controlling that mass, are limited. Tricky front suspension geometry to get it to point and shoot, uses up tires, but it feels good for a while.

        The current side protection requirements with a low seating position(Camaro), versus the Mustang designed with the previous side protection requirements, and its high sofa like sedan seating, give a different feel and perspective. GM designers may have pushed the design envelope of the Camaro to get that custom, hot rod look of the chopped top, but they didn’t push it by much. Low window sill heights are not coming back.

        Personally, I like sitting down low in a sporty car, but then I’m not that tall at around 6′+. I’m perfectly comfortable in the Camaro and I feel like I’m sitting on a bar stool in the Mustang.
        reg; “GM’s attempt to use Burgerkingring times to distract from the fact that the Mustang simply works a thousand times better than the Camaro” Is that really your perception? Everybody uses the Ring for tit for tat, and testing. Even Hyundai is setting up a facility at the Ring. If more manufacturers set up test facilities at the Ring, maybe it can be saved from condo developers.

        In the mean time, I hope your getting some rest, your burning an awful lot of candles, Jack.

        PS! You might reconsider the ‘No Banning’ edict. Some of the nasty trolls on this site contribute nothing but ugliness. I know you can handle it, but it detracts from the appeal of the site. Sleep on it.

        • 0 avatar
          raph

          “The current side protection requirements with a low seating position(Camaro), versus the Mustang designed with the previous side protection requirements, and its high sofa like sedan seating, give a different feel and perspective.”

          the hy-PER-bole meter just went off…

          The Camaro’s gunwales aren’t that bad, it does suffer more from that chopped greenhouse though. When I adjust the seat down in the Mustang, I’ve got about 1.5 to maybe 2.0 inches of head room without altering the seat angle, no such luck with the Camaro, to get the necessary head room I have to lay the seat back to the B-pillar.

          • 0 avatar
            3Deuce27

            “the hy-PER-bole meter just went off…”

            Obviously needs some adjustment or its operator needs retraining. No jibe intended, Raph… col! I was using descriptive analogy, not exaggeration.

            I was speaking to the stock seats not the optional seats, like yours probably has.

            My feeling is, you sit down in, the Camaro, and down on the Mustang.

            The Mustang does have an inch more headroom, so you might have a point with adjusting the seat angle too give you more headroom in the Camaro.

            Regards

        • 0 avatar
          mnm4ever

          Its funny because I had exactly the opposite problem when I test drove them both, but I am short. I had read for months about the terrible seating position in the Camaro, and I went in preparing to hate it. Turns out, it was perfect, I felt very comfortable driving it right away, and I tried a base model LS1 stick, SS1 stick and SS2 auto. The Mustang was very uncomfortable the first time in a base GT stick without height adjustable seats, it felt “bigger” than the Camaro. Then I drove a Premium GT auto with the height adjustable seats and cranked it up pretty high and then it was perfect. I have not driven one with the Recaros so I don’t know how they fit compared to the other two. I find it hard to believe the Mustang seats could ever feel like barstools though. Maybe if you are used to a Corvette or something.

          Seems pretty clear that the Camaro was designed for shorter drivers and the Mustang for taller, which would explain why you taller guys have problems with the Camaro.

        • 0 avatar
          suspekt

          Couple of comments on your post

          1. I am in love with this Z/28 and would put it on the ‘want to buy’ list ahead of many many cars.

          2. I hate the current Camaro interior. I have owned several F-bodies and it seems the same with each generation they cannot do a proper interior. I wish they would drop the retro square guage crap and just put in a normal dash

          3. Honda manages to create amazing belt-lines and equally stellar crash performance.

        • 0 avatar
          krhodes1

          I call bunk on the whole “high waistlines necessary for crash test results” business. It is purely a styling thing – proper engineering would easily get great side impact protection with the waistline a couple inches lower, and there CERTAINLY no engineering reason the roof could not be a couple inches higher. It’s just the world is in love with that hot rod look at the moment. I for one can’t WAIT for this look to run it’s course.

          And count me in with Jack. I have had V6 and V8 Camaros as rentals, and while in the abstract they are lovely to drive and great fun, not being able to see out of the damned things completely and utterly ruins it. The Mustang is cruder in most every way, but you can see what you are doing from one.

      • 0 avatar
        AMC_CJ

        I was someone who thought “man that Camaro is cool” when it came out, and who lusted one for a few years before being able to buy a new car, then test drove one and ended up buying a Mustang.

        The seating position was just all off; the beltline way too high, the roof too low. Cool looks be damned, it was just not comfortable and felt too awkward driving.

        Then there is the small trunk opening….. but the other big thing I liked over the Mustang is the fact that the V6 had plenty of room around it sitting in a engine bay made for such a gigantic DOHC V8. The engine looked less cluttered, and as someone does 95% of the work on my own vehicles, that’s was a huge selling point. Not to mention the simple solid axle arrangement out back.

        Sorry man, the Mustang is just the better product.

        • 0 avatar

          +1 to AMC_CJ. Great drivetrain but I can’t get over the driving position. Feels like I am trying to drive a WWII pillbox.

          • 0 avatar
            DeadWeight

            The Challenger, Camaro AND Mustang are all bigger, wider & heavier than need ne, even considering the “muscle car” nostalgia design theme their makers desired.

            It’s possible to make all 3 lighter, leaner & smaller, while not sacrificing (and maybe even significantly improving) interior space and occupant comfort.

            Chrysler,GM & Ford need to dial back the nostalgia and dial up the modern interpretation, IMO.

          • 0 avatar
            CelticPete

            Yeah I want to love the Camaro but the crap interior and terrible visibility kill it for me.

            I think though the Challenger is different. Its a legitimate big car. There is actually a lot of room in the back seat and you have acres of room in the front seat.

            It’s like a poor man’s Bentley.. Yeah its still way to big for the room it provides – but it is big. The trunk is huge too.

            Its the most useable muscle car if you have a family or want to drive friends around.

            The car that I miss is the G8. That would have been the go to choice – along with the GTO had Pontiac been allowed to live.

            GM makes the best engines but the Camaro body stinks – the interior stinks and the trunk opening is tiny.

    • 0 avatar
      racer-esq.

      Jack has Ford and VW/Audi bias, but at least it’s pretty known. And he does call out those brands. But when I read an article comparing, for example, Cadillac to Lincoln, I have to roll my eyes.

      Anyway, the best argument against blowing $60K on a Z/28 isn’t the Mustang. Why the hell would someone pay $60K for a Camaro or Mustang when the same car with a 300+ HP V6 is ~$22K? You’re paying almost $40K for a supped up engine in a $20K car. Which, on the other hand, shows what an awesome deal a V6 Mustang or Camaro is. Some people out there are paying $60K for the car you have, and you got it for $20K.

      But, back to the subject. The best argument against the Z/28 is a new Corvette Stingray Z51, which is $55K, $5K less. With its Corvette-only aluminum chassis and a rear transaxle. Supercar stuff. Not some overweight chassis from a large Australian family sedan. Why would anyone pay more for a Camaro than a Corvette?

      Hell, even with all his Ford bias Jack claims to wish he had a ‘vette instead of a Boxster.

      • 0 avatar
        mnm4ever

        @racer-esq – you nailed it. I even have trouble justifying a $35-40k GT or SS when you can buy extremely lightly used C6 Gran Sports for under $40k all day long. Seems like most of them were purchased by older people who drove them a few miles on Sundays and otherwise kept them perfect in a garage (usually decorated with Corvette logos, signs and color-matched floor tiles too). With the C7 launch, they all want to get rid of the old model for the cool new one. Hardest part is finding a stick shift in a sea of hip-replacement-friendly auto trans versions!

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          Spot on assessment.

        • 0 avatar
          rampriscort

          Yeah, the in-laws live in Naples, FL. Average age on the high side of retirement, and you can’t swing a broken connecting rod without dinging a shiny low-mileage C5/6 ‘vette with a nice old guy wearing a Michigan cap behind the wheel.

          I can imagine after the second knee replacement grandma starts pestering the old man about getting a nice Camry she can get in and out of and bang – you’ve got a bargain on your hands.

      • 0 avatar
        RobertR

        Right with you on the Corvette vs Z/28 issue. I’m not sure I understand the track-focused Camaro option when you’ve got the Corvette sitting there with better performance for the same cost. Playing out the armchair racing, the Z/28 is noticeably slower than the Z06 at both the Ring and Milford, and it looks like the stingray is right with the Z/28 as well. As a sports car/track toy, the Camaro is inherently compromised compared to the vette.

        Of course, we are all being disingenuous about any of Z/28 track performance mattering to real customers. This is all window dressing that leads to success as a small volume product-line special. Fans of the Camaro will pay for the top of the line version, and just like the Boss (and every sports car), a tiny percentage will see track time. How many do you think will actually sell without A/C and no radio?

        Overall, we can be happy that the top-line performance models actually have to perform these days, and cars like this and the Boss are born. Still, just like racer-esq said, why this and not a Corvette?

      • 0 avatar
        DeadWeight

        Also agreeing with racer-esq as his points are very compelling.

        The only way I could personally justify paying 2x to 3x for any one of these vehicles (fastest Camaro, Challenger, Mustang – and that includes the GT500 btw) is if one didn get the same interior bits and pieces, nor the same chassis, which pretty much eliminates any logical case one could really make for their price premium.

        And to reiterate, Ford, GM & Chrysler are way too literal in trying to translate the 60s muscle car into the modern era, and the result is excess & needless weight, girth, length & poor visibility, along with cheesy over-stylized cues.

      • 0 avatar
        geozinger

        Can’t really argue with your logic on the Camaro vs. Corvette comparison. Especially against the used Corvettes on the market. In fact, our current conversation between is do we really need more than 300 horses for our next car (as empty nesters)?

        However, I could see a target market of the Z/28 (or the Boss or the SRT 392); someone who remembers the originals fondly, wants the top spec of a familiar car(the baddest in all the land for Saturday night cruising)and finds the Corvette and other similar cars too much like cop bait. Additionally, for those of us who have destroyed our knees and ankles, it’s a helluva lot easier to get in any Camaro compared to a Corvette or something similar.

        But, as I noted further down the strings, few of these cars will ever turn a wheel in anger. Destined to be trailer and garage queens…

        • 0 avatar
          mnm4ever

          Actually I heard they passed a new law, no empty nester may own any car with more than 300hp. So it’s good you have been discussing it. :)

          Now to seriously comment: of course not. No one really needs more than 300hp. But you just raised x number of kids, paid insane insurance rates from the time they were 16 until the finally moved out, shlepped them around in family cars, probably paid for college and cell phones and help with this and that expense, etc. Take it from me.. you DESERVE a car with more than 300hp. If only because this might be your last chance to get one and truly enjoy it!

          My youngest hasn’t even moved out yet and I am already shopping around, and whatever I get it must have at least 400hp.

  • avatar
    Beerboy12

    Lots of sawing on the wheel there, looks a bit of a beast to get around the corners. Not too bad though. Watching this all American muscle car trying to learn corners is a bit like watching a pickup truck learning to parallel park…

    • 0 avatar
      3Deuce27

      Apparently, you didn’t notice that its raining and the track is wet in sections. Tires lose grip or plane on the wet surface, and search for traction, this has to be managed through steering inputs.

  • avatar
    Dubbed

    This post gives me the feeling of just dripping with jealousy and envy.

    That the Camaro Z/28 is capable of completing the entirely arbitrary task of running the ring in 7:37.40 is impressive. I guess I was wrong to assume that Jack would enjoy the concept of a car built for the track and is useless just about everywhere else. Especially one built by GM.

    And when did 7:37 become slower than 7:41.

    • 0 avatar
      3Deuce27

      7:37 on a wet track. impressive by any account.

      • 0 avatar
        Jack Baruth

        It’s only wet/raining at the end, really. I’ve driven the Ring under those conditions and it’s not problematic. They got lucky.

        Put it this way: they had 500 laps in the car and this was their fast one. They didn’t put it up on the Internet because they had better dry-weather laps.

  • avatar
    3Deuce27

    Other sources have the Z-28 faster by 4 seconds then the Zl-1.

  • avatar
    05lgt

    Jack hates the Nurburgerkingonionring. Not the Camaro. I just wish Red Bull would let Vettel tear this silly over-sized track a new one. Just for some perspective on all this happy number crunching.

  • avatar
    NMGOM

    “Chevrolet spent a week of development and logged a thousand miles to get this time; however, they claim the car could go six seconds faster.” The Chevy folks may be right on this one, for some peculiar reasons.

    I watched this video twice. I know the ‘Ring. Don’t know if the driver was Jim Mero or not, but whoever it was did some serious under-driving on the section between Aremberg and Breitscheid; and some over-driving after the Carousel toward Brünchen. In fact, he almost lost it on at least one occasion, trying to make up for lost time.

    But what Chevy isn’t saying (so far as I know), is how many cars and how many sets of tires they went through to get this result. Yes, the Camero can now beat a Porsche Carrera S (barely), but the Carrera S does not have to be overdriven, and does not have the sense that it’s at 11/10th’s. Sometimes I got the feeling that the driver here could not accurately determine whether he was under- or over-driving; he just hoped for the best.

    —————–

    • 0 avatar
      3Deuce27

      Apparently, you missed the obvious fact that it was raining… the track was wet, at least in some sections. There is your six seconds.

      And, it is poor form to destroy your employers equipment. A bit of caution in the wet, is the order of the day, at anytime. Finding the limit, and its consequences, is not the job order. Finding that day ending, equipment ending, life ending, big noise event, is to be willfully avoided.

      I don’t think this run was made to post the best time, or it would have been attempted under better conditions. It just turned out to be a good run, despite conditions.

      Everybody goes through consumables and sometimes equipment to get the best times. How else are you going to find it?

      • 0 avatar
        NMGOM

        3Deuce27 – - -

        Thank you for your “rain reminder”. I did not miss that fact; just ignored it.

        However, the rain had only begun to set in as the Camaro exited Schwalbenschwanz to get onto the Döttinger Höhe, which is a 1-mile straight! Cornering caution with wet pavement is NOT a serious concern at that point. I would assume the Chevy folks had Michelin Pilot Sport tires that can handle a bit of mild water film quite well. Other cars have posted record lap times in the wet too. It all depends on where the “wet” is, and how much water film is on the road at that point.

        —————-

    • 0 avatar
      geozinger

      I wish I could say I know the ‘Ring, but considering the conditions the car was filmed in (partial rain), I thought the driver did a remarkable job of getting a good lap time in. FWIW, these ‘Ring rides are for bragging rights, no doubt, but do you honestly think that no other manufacturer who attempts one of these things just shows up with some inventory off the assembly line (with no preparation)?

      I have driven (street, not race prepared) cars at speed on small race tracks, even on a small 2 mile track there are a lot of braking points to remember and ensure you nail each time. I think the driver here was probably going for the max time attack that he dared considering the equipment and the length of the track. I give serious props to anyone who can remember that track turn for turn. I bought the Gran Turismo video game a few years back just to see the whole of the ‘Ring from the trackside (the last time I was there, I was too young for an international driver’s license). The game representation was very intense, I can only imagine what the real thing is like. Also, like 3Deuce27 says, it’s a bad idea to wad up your employer’s equipment…

      The net-net of this exercise is to show that for $60K(?) you can get a Camaro that can hunt down and pass some very exotic machinery (provided you have the will to do so). The reality is, the vast majority of these cars will never turn a wheel in anger, except maybe by accident coming off of the enclosed trailer at the car show. Ah well…

      • 0 avatar
        NMGOM

        geozinger – - –

        “….do you honestly think that no other manufacturer who attempts one of these things just shows up with some inventory off the assembly line (with no preparation)?”

        No.
        —–

        “I can only imagine what the real thing is like.”

        I doubt it. There is NO truly accurate simulation for the ‘Ring. Jackie Stewart didn’t name this “The Green Hell” for nothing. At one time, the Japanese were considering trying to build an actual duplicate of the ‘Ring in Japan, but gave that up: it just couldn’t be done comprehensively, including humidity and other weather conditions.
        —-

        “Also, like 3Deuce27 says, it’s a bad idea to wad up your employer’s equipment…”

        If Chevy booked a week (expensive!), it is probable that they came with more than one Camaro. Accidents do happen after all, not always the driver’s fault. And I would not be surprised if they told their “employee” to go for it, even if it meant an increased chance for a potential mishap. He is supposed to be a competent test driver, after all…

        ————–

        • 0 avatar
          geozinger

          WRT the ‘Ring duplication: Only the Japanese would consider such an idea. Ludicrous.

          Maybe I could have been more accurate in stating: I *can’t* imagine what the real thing is like. I’ve been to the Nurburgring, but was too young to drive on it. Of course, the intervening 30+ years since I was there have blunted my memory of it.

          Whether or not test pilot(s) crunch up a whole fleet of Z/28′s, the fact remains: It’s a lot of car for the money.

          I personally wonder how long this encroachment upon the Corvette’s territory will last.

          • 0 avatar
            NMGOM

            geozinger – - -

            “I personally wonder how long this encroachment upon the Corvette’s territory will last.”

            Good point. I was wondering that myself. The C6 ZR1 was puling about 7:20, only 17 seconds faster. If a hopped up, advanced Camaro can get there for $80K, then there might be a problem.

            ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nürburgring_Nordschleife_lap_times

            ———–

  • avatar
    Noble713

    I’ve long been a fan of the GM small block and consider it one of (if not THE) greatest engine(s) ever made. That’s not what makes this car and ‘Ring time amazing, though.

    What’s amazing, to me, is that the Z28 put down this time while built around the large, heavy sedan-based Zeta platform! Imagine:

    a) what the next Camaro will deliver performance-wise, if it’s based on the smaller, lighter Alpha platform used in the Cadillac ATS
    b) what a highly-tuned, V8-swapped ATS would deliver both performance and practicality-wise

  • avatar
    Mr Imperial

    I treat the Camaro’s time as quite the engineering accomplishment.

    I look at this time, keeping in mind Camaros of the 80′s/90′s/00′s.

    If a Camaro were to have a lap time ANYWHERE in sneezing distance to a Lambo, Ferrari, Porsche, or any Euro exotic-the Camaro would have to be a Lingenfelter/Baldwin Motion/heavily altered aftermarket special ‘ringer to possibily be within 5-10 seconds of a Euro supercar.

    The fact that the Z/28 has faster lap times than cars costing tens of thousands more, gives it some cred, in my opinion.

    Ask yourself, did you ever think that Camaros/Mustangs would ever post better lap times than a Ferrari?

  • avatar
    Larry P2

    Well, at least TTAC in all of its institutional GM hatred ran a grudging story about this accomplishment (but of course left out the part about it raining).

    That’s better than TTAC’s obvious editorial blackout of a road test on the C7 Vette.

    • 0 avatar
      Jack Baruth

      Larry,

      We didn’t get a chance to drive the C7. We were locked out, not the other way around.

      I’ve driven a C7 for another publication and once that test has gone live I’ll discuss the car here.

      • 0 avatar
        doctor olds

        ‘Ring times certainly prove a car’s potential. Splitting hairs about a few seconds variation is only meaningful from a bragging rights perspective on such a complex and long circuit.

        There is no doubt the rain impacted this lap. You can hear the engine rev up as the tires break loose a couple of times before the windshield wipers come on, and the Z28 is capable of much higher speed than the 150 something on the long straight.

        Worth 6 seconds? Maybe, but if they had a faster time, we would have heard about it as Jack points out.

        Regardless, it is an impressive achievement for a car of its price class and size.

        Camaro is winning the most important contest, sales results. GM makes a lot more on Camaro than Ford or Chrysler do with their entries, despite the Hummer-like visibility and cartoonish proportions.

        Let’s hope the Alpha Camaro fixes the body shape. It will sure be a lot lighter, and there is room for any small block in the engine compartment. Long live the LS7!!

  • avatar
    DubTee1480

    I’d like to see one of the domestic automakers skip the ring for once and post up times at 10-12 tracks in the US. Nail their lap time down during the week and hold a owners event that weekend. That would be perfect for Mustang and Camaro owners and would probably move a little more metal than posting times for a track that most (if any) of their target audience will never see.

  • avatar
    Numbers_Matching

    This video signifies that performance car engineerng/design capability is a much more even playing field than even 10 years ago. Credit many factors for this phenomena – but a biggie has got to be the proliferation of advanced modeling/simulation software. You can bet that it won’t be long until you start seeing KIA/Hyundai hypercars breaking the 7:30 threshold on the ‘Ring.

    • 0 avatar
      Numbers_Matching

      And for my second comment:
      modern super cars have become (or are becoming) hyper-automated control-monsters. There is less ‘seat-of-pants’ feedback from the driver. Give me half the power and half the mass in an all analog, but well engineered chassis for double the fun.
      My ’81 TR8 (top down, rollbar up!) would have a hard time making it around the ‘ring even once – but man, it would be fun..

  • avatar
    DougD

    Blah Blah indeed.

    I’m with Jack, and with James May on the importance of ‘Ring lap times.

    This is further proof that modern cars are so good they’re insanely boring. It’s like baseball now, so boring we have to concentrate on the statistics just to try and make it interesting.

    • 0 avatar
      Mr Imperial

      What would you recommend, then? What criteria do you use in evaluating a new car?

      • 0 avatar
        DougD

        How about if it meets your actual needs, instead of the needs of some pro race driver who needs to do 1000 miles on a racetrack to get around faster than the R34 Skyline?

        Granted, I don’t know you so it may be your actual need to do just that. However, if I was buying in this segment at the moment I’d be more concerned about how fun and confidence inspiring it feels for me to drive the car spiritedly on a twisty road,rather than a 10/10ths track situation with someone else driving.

        • 0 avatar
          Mr Imperial

          Just seeing if I could get more than just a re-quote of James May out of you.

          I understand that this display by Chevrolet doesn’t validate the car to everybody. Thankfully, a one-size-fits-all approach isn’t used by manufacturers; otherwise, we’d all be driving Camcords.

          It’s the game of one-upsmanship that all manufacturers have been using since the beginning of the automobile. I don’t see this trend ever ending, which, in my opinion, has helped to improve all cars.

          Thanks for your response-

  • avatar
    suspekt

    Re: Jack’s artice:
    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009/06/review-chevrolet-camaro-ls1/

    He is bang on in that assessment. I owned a 1994 Z28 which I purchased in 1998. A few simple mods to the LT1 motor, and I was destroying cars (18 years old at the time) that had no idea what just happened. It was a shame the rear-end was so brittle and the interior pure junk; but that was the trade-off in putting over 350 torques to the ground.

    It was a beast. A savage, rip snorting, tire shredding, machine from another planet.

    But the best part? It was gorgeous. Sitting nice and low on billet machined Boyds wheels, it looked like Lord Vader himself…

    aahhhh, the days.

    • 0 avatar
      Larry P2

      That’s one of my big objections to TTAC: It is utterly clueless when it comes to ponycars, Vettes, Vipers, Jeeps, and four wheel drive pickups. Eurocentric (or more accuately VW-centric) and interior-centric in the extreme, TTAC has no understanding of the joys of cheap and fast cars.

      Can you REALLY claim to be a gearhead when you view cars like an interior decorator would?

      Nobody that claims to be a gearhead can really listen to that Z-28 video and not get a boner.

      It just can’t be done.

      • 0 avatar

        Larry,

        The LS7 is useless to myself and others if it’s packaged in a vehicle that one can barely see out of. The 4th Gen F-Body is exceptional, as is the C6 ‘Vette. Both have great sight-lines which help one place the car properly on a road or a racetrack. I love looking over that long, low hood of my friend’s C5 Z06 and feeling like I’m in some sort of aircraft. The Camaro fails this test miserably.

        • 0 avatar
          mikey

          I got to weigh in here. Did you ever know somebody that married, a smoking hot babe just for her looks? Then they lived with her for a while,and found what a P.I.T.A she was to live with.

          Try using a 5th gen LS3 6 spd Camaro,as a daily driver. I love mine, but if I didn,t have two other vehicles,the Camaro would have been gone 6 months ago.

          Just try and back that baby out of a tight,and busy parking lot.

          Its a sweet looking car,with a rumbling V8,that gives me a twitch every time I drive it.

          The right amount of cash comes my way?

          Bye bye Camaro!

  • avatar
    mr_min

    Camaro shamaro
    Burgerkingring times do count http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg0qyKTOczk
    VF Commodore Ute 8:40s
    You can see out it, tow with it, and carry some lumber.
    Oh wait I forgot, North America doesn’t get cool pickups :-)

    • 0 avatar
      NMGOM

      mr_min – - –

      Watched you video. You’re right. This is impressive, and the USA will be getting that car this year as the “Chevy SS”.

      —————

    • 0 avatar
      racer-esq.

      The Camaro is just a Commodore coupe. Which makes a lot more sense than a Commodore pickup. Because you get a back seat and better weight distribution. A ute is no more capable at towing than a Camaro (same rear suspension and unibody), and nobody is throwing lumber in the back of a $80K (if you’re talking VF) ute.

      There is no “chicken tax” with Australia, it was waived in a trade agreement back in 2005. The only reason the ute isn’t imported is that nobody in the US is going to pay $30K+ for a V6 regular cab unibody pickup.

  • avatar
    Boxerman

    The reason the camaro is hard to see out if is because they did not compromise the design. Some here want something with sight lines like an accord, but then it will be a bland looking car. Style sells as does performance. Most camaro sales are V6 and its about style. The look is a big part of that makes the camnaro special. Otherwise you can just buy a boring G8 Gto which is the same car but with good sightlines and a blob to look at.

    As to nurbering laptimes. They are but one measure. I would really like to know how a stock z28 holds up to say 50 laps or watkins gelnn. From what I havbe seen even s stock z06 is suffering chronic brake problems. With racing fluids and pads and the necessary line change a stock z06 can still eat a set of pads in good day of tracking.

    A Bmw M3 can go all out at nurbering but will melt its brakes off within a few laps of a smaller US type track.

    So yeah Nurbering is but one measure. If you buy your z28 for trackdays you may well want to know how the car performs feels and holds up on well visited US tracks. A GTR for example is good for a few laps before heat soak sets in and dials everything back. Great for single paper laps but largely irrelevant.

    • 0 avatar
      Larry P2

      I predict if the new Alfa sports car, albeit some 650 pounds heavier and substantially less horsepower than originally claimed, comes to within 2 minutes of the Ring time of that Z-28, TTAC will be praising it to high heavens.

  • avatar
    RobertRyan

    I wonder if GMH has any input into these newer versions of the Camaro, seeing they did the original engineering for the current model Camaro some time ago(Dale Earnhardt Jr ,had a test drive in Melbourne just before the model was released)


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