By on May 16, 2013

SUVs are usually regarded as safer than small cars. However, “most of the small SUVs tested for safety in crashes did not fare well in more stringent tests” performed by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS), Reuters says.

“US small SUVs scored badly,” writes the wire. Top honors took a trucklet that, according to the Urban Dictionary, is “driven by post-menopausal lesbians:” The Subaru Forester.

IIHS Small SUV Crash Ratings
Make, model Moderate overlap front Side impact Rollover Rear Small overlap front
2014 Subaru Forester G G G G G
2013 Mitsubishi Outlander Sport G G G G A
2013 BMW X1 G G G G M
2013 Honda CR-V G G G G M
2013 Volkswagen Tiguan G G G G M
2013 Buick Encore G G G G P
2013 Ford Escape G G G G P
2013 Hyundai Tucson G G G G P
2013-14 Jeep Patriot G G G G P
2013 Kia Sportage G G G G P
2013-14 Mazda CX-5 G G G G M
2013 Toyota RAV4 G G G G NA
2013 Nissan Rogue G G A G M
2013 Mitsubishi Outlander G G A A NA
2013 Suzuki Grand Vitara G A A M NA
2013 Jeep Wrangler 2 door G P NA M M

The Forester is the only small SUV that received a “good” rating in the newly added Small Front Overlap Test. The Mitsubishi Outlander Sport received an “acceptable” rating on the overlap test, and made second. The Forester and the Outlander were the only small SUVs to be awarded the IHS “Top Safety Pick+.”

The best-rated Detroit trucklet is the Buick Encore on place 6 with a poor Small Overlap rating. The Jeep Wrangler brings up the rear with a truly mediocre showing. Boo, hiss, Detroit – pussy-whipped by a Japanese transgender crossover that is also known as a “vag-wag?”

PS: Before you start to tar and feather me for Detroit bashing LGBT discrimination, please be notified that according to the all-knowing Wikipedia, the term “dyke” originated “as a derogatory label for a masculine woman, and this usage still exists.” Shame on them. “However, some persons attempt to use it in a manner that they see as positive, or as a neutral synonym for lesbian,” and those persons include the Schmitts.

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242 Comments on “Small SUV Crashopalooza: Detroit Loses, Dykes Win...”


  • avatar
    ToxicSludge

    I’m not surprised at all with the wrangler being dead last.I’ve bought 3 new jeeps since 01 and each one was lower in quality then the previous one.I love jeeps and their off road capabilities but they are just expensive junk now and a waste of money and time.Macaroni sure improved that brand didn’t he…

    • 0 avatar
      jpolicke

      The Wrangler scores don’t surprise me that much. It’s the only vehicle on the list whose doors were designed to be removable; how substantial can they possibly be? Still, its overlap result was better than 5 others, probably because the plastic fenders tear off so easily.

  • avatar
    Junebug

    There’s that and there’s the real world where most Wrangler owners add bigger tires, side rails and other “armour” even though 90% just rock crawl to the mall and back. I’d take my chances in one of these urban assault vehicles in a crash with any other SUV on the list. Now, if I had to pick a daily driver, well, Rav4 or CX-5.

    • 0 avatar
      crtfour

      I used to have a 2004 Wrangler that got hit in the back by a Nissan Rogue and the Jeep fared much better. Having metal bumpers and a full frame right behind it probably helped.

      On the flip side, if I had been hit from the side it may have rolled over.

      • 0 avatar
        Beerboy12

        These tests test how you survive, not how the car survives. The tests are somewhat unfair towards the Jeep due to it’s design purpose.

        • 0 avatar
          Lorenzo

          Excellent point. Jeeps will never get a good rating from CU because they’re compared to road cars in so many categories by people who don’t off-road.

          CU will never admit it, but if you’ve been reading their assessments for the last 45-50 years, you’ve noticed a generational change in the testers with their biases. In the late ’60s-early ’70s, the highest rated cars were American full sized RWD V8 sedans, and the early Toyota Coronas were low-rated.

          I wouldn’t be surprised if IIHS staff had their own subtle biases in how the tests are set up, and the values placed on components of the tests. There are trade-offs in every design, and people are easily capable of attaching personal preferences that alter the values. The tests are not measuring absolutes.

          • 0 avatar
            CJinSD

            One man’s generational bias is another man’s reflection that owning a big American car stopped being a good idea as fuel prices fluctuated, safety technology improved beyond relying on sheer size, and Detroit quality and driveability tumbled. Perhaps there was an anti-import bias, reflecting their lesser dealer bodies, the pathetic quality of English, French, and Italian cars, and recent history. GM fared pretty well when all they needed to do was rust less than Fords and have better interior components than Chryslers. Looking at the Vega and Pinto, it is easy to see why CU stopped taking for granted that Detroit made good cars. When they tried to play on the imports’ field, their weaknesses became obvious quickly.

  • avatar
    Tomifobia

    “However, some persons attempt to use it in a manner that they see as positive, or as a neutral synonym for lesbian,”

    Really? I know an ultra-feminine lesbian who would pummel you with her best pair of high heels if you dared to use that word at her.

    • 0 avatar
      Summicron

      “an ultra-feminine lesbian”

      Those are always such a shocker.
      Talk about forbidden fruit….

    • 0 avatar
      bumpy ii

      There is a phenomenon of ‘reclaiming the perjorative’, where the targets of a slur adopt it themselves to subvert its intent. Some people hold that perjoratives should be obliterated rather than reclaimed, however. In any case, it’s generally a bad idea to use them in either way if you’re not in the targeted group.

      In a totally unrelated anecdote, Virginia occasionally rescinds personalized license plates that are deemed offensive for one reason or another. One time, the state took back a “2 DYKES” plate from a lesbian couple. One guess what vehicle the plate was registered to.

      • 0 avatar
        Summicron

        ‘reclaiming the perjorative’

        Geek, nerd, redneck, jarhead, jock…
        Food Nazi (my RN dietician)

      • 0 avatar

        Come on, there is Dyke County, VA. I lived a few miles away at some point ….

        • 0 avatar
          bumpy ii

          Must be in a hidden valley near Lake Woebegone and Galt’s Gulch.

        • 0 avatar
          210delray

          Not quite. There is a Dyke, Virginia, basically a crossroads in rural Greene County, Virginia. The funny thing is that a nearby private school uses St. George as its place name rather than Dyke.

          • 0 avatar
            CJinSD

            I wonder when they officially became a part of St. George. A couple friends went to Blue Ridge in the ’80s, and it was in Dyke at the time.

        • 0 avatar
          Stumpaster

          I had no idea they sell crack in Tokyo.

          “to use it in a manner that they see as positive, or as a neutral synonym for lesbian,” and those persons include the Schmitts.”

          But you did not use dyke to describe a person, you used it as a overbearing generalization that the lesbians, not gays, drive Subarus. You didn’t say Detroit loses and Japs win, did you.

          Stick to what you know, Bertel, you wouldn’t sound as a pompous idiot then.

          Now go exercise your banning finger.

    • 0 avatar

      If you don’t know the difference between butch and femme, you should get kicked …

      • 0 avatar
        Cammy Corrigan

        I wonder how Mr Alex Dykes feels about this whole affair…..?

      • 0 avatar
        Tomifobia

        Who said anything about kicking? She’d take them off and beat you about the skull. Feminine, but no shrinking violet.

  • avatar
    Hummer

    Not that it helps my argument at all, but the only SUV in the list is the wrangler.
    Which is a design that has been on going with only a few changes for 60 years, I can guarantee the current does better than the original, albeit the original had better bumpers then crappy plastic they use now.

    The term SUV =/= CUV

    Also note to website programmers fix the website for when people use phones, I hate seeing a web page in Mobil form, when I go on the Internet I expect the Internet in its full.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      Echoing the next thing I was going to post (excluding the technical comment). Every model on this list save Wrangler is designed, marketed to, and most purchases made or influenced by women. Sure most owners of true SUVs probably seldom took them off road or used them for truck duty such as towing, but the capabilities were there. Pay more, get less, and like it.

  • avatar
    KixStart

    Where are the Terrain and Equinox?

  • avatar
    jruhi4

    Wow! I’m slow today. I thought the Dykes reference in the article title was about your Review Editor Alex Dykes and not about lesbians. I need a shot of Cuban coffee…

  • avatar
    Skink

    Alright. My wife and I are straight and premenopausal, and are owners of a week old 2014 Forester. We’re gratified and not surprised to learn of these test results.

  • avatar
    jz78817

    can we leave the trollish attempts to be “edgy” and “offensive” to Jalopnik, please?

  • avatar
    slavuta

    Where is Ray LaHood – “Stop driving your Jeep Patriot”

  • avatar
    Timothy

    TTAC, let’s leave the sexual orientation jokes aside. It’s not edgy, it’s not funny, it’s not in keeping with good editorial standards.

    • 0 avatar
      Hummer

      Seeing how few good editors still exist, it’s a nice change to see something not so extremely PC.
      I’ d much rather have someone speak his mind then be a robot who copies every other article in existence.

      • 0 avatar
        Hummer

        If someone gets offended by name calling, they need to grow up.

        • 0 avatar

          Should a black person grow up when someone calls them any number of incredibly inappropriate slurs directed towards them?

          I don’t like homophobic slurs. Especially after getting it chanted at me before getting the crap kicked out of me in high school. The same thing happened to a lesbian friend of mine in high school before getting attacked. Is Mr. Schmitt sure he wants to be grouped into people who use that word when people who use it violently attack people? He needs to grow up and not use that kind of language. He can group homosexuals with that kind of language, well, people who use it can get grouped as well, only they look a lot worse.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        “I’d much rather have someone speak his mind then be a robot”

        Very much agreed, TTAC is an oasis away from the PC nonsense prevalent in media. I do no find of this article offensive and those who find themselves offended should take a look at themselves and what the hell happened to their sense of humor (albeit it dry humor) between adolescence and now.

        • 0 avatar
          Timothy

          My sense of humor about stereotyping members of the gay community ran out a long time ago. Probably in high-school after being called a fag for 4 years. Look at your self in the mirror and ask why you find it funny or acceptable to make fun of anyone who may be different than you. There are ways to be clever, funny, edgy, etc without using the crutch of attacking a fellow human for who they are.

          What happened between adolescence and now? I grew up.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Interesting thoughts, excellent post.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            I know many people in the LGBT community and none of them are offended by remarks like this.
            How can a group of people who want equality also want special treatment?
            I’m sorry but I haven’t met any gays who want people to not talk in a certain way. Once a group asking for equality asks for special treatment, it’s no longer about equality but special interest groups trying to get ahead, which almost always has a money trail.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            “Once a group asking for equality asks for special treatment, it’s no longer about equality but special interest groups trying to get ahead”

            This is well put. I believe most of these folks are like the rest of us, just want to get by, pay their bills, and have a belief structure predicated on their experiences (for better or worse) as any other person does. But as usual a certain percentage go political for personal gain, all one has to do to expose this is to follow the money. Politics should be left in the gutter where it belongs.

          • 0 avatar
            jz78817

            “I know many people in the LGBT community and none of them are offended by remarks like this.”

            I’m glad you think that authorizes you to speak on their behalf. I’ll bet you have “lots of black friends” too.

          • 0 avatar
            MPAVictoria

            “ow can a group of people who want equality also want special treatment?”

            Is it special treatment now not to want to be called fags and dykes? Is it special treatment when black people object to being called the n word? What is wrong with you man?

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            @jz78817

            “lots of black friends” too.

            Nice one, all I could think of was George Constanza taking the exterminator to dinner to prove a point to his boss.

            @MPAVictoria

            Any faction seeking additional minority status, additional protection in legislation, and asking for society’s laws to change to accommodate their lifestyle is asking for special treatment, period. This isn’t about “don’t hassle me” or whatever other BS you’re peddling, this is about creating yet another protected class and that is the political aspect.

          • 0 avatar
            marc

            “Any faction seeking additional minority status, additional protection in legislation, and asking for society’s laws to change to accommodate their lifestyle is asking for special treatment, period.”

            28, the so-called special treatment argument is a ruse to not ackowledge that injustices to minorities require special protection be given to prevent the injustices and to make up for them. I have been gay bashed, beaten for no other reason than being gay. I require special protection. No, I demand it from a civil society.

            For minority rights, you can’t just tell the majority to be equal. Equality is only guaranteed by extra protections. This has always been true.

          • 0 avatar

            “I’m glad you think that authorizes you to speak on their behalf. I’ll bet you have “lots of black friends” too.”

            Some of my best friends are Jewish.

          • 0 avatar

            “Equality is only guaranteed by extra protections. This has always been true.”

            Yes, some animals are more equal than others.

            Of course it’s nonsensical to say that one group is “equal” to another when that group has “extra protections”.

            Right now college campuses are 60% female. At which point will the “extra protections” for women no longer be needed, when the schools are 99% female?

            I’ve been called names by Jew haters and in high school it got physical. Please spare me “extra protections” and campus speech codes. I’m more comfortable being protected by the First Amendment.

            That means I have to tolerate folks who call me a “dirty Jew” or a “bloodsucker”. Offense and insult are not crimes.

          • 0 avatar
            marc

            You know Ronnie, the way you and Bertel are being so dismissive of your readers is becoming more offensive than the article’s title.

            You act holier than thou because you have been verbally abused and turned out ok. Well I turned out ok too, but not before the abuse. You’re basically saying the abuse is fine. Just deal with it.

            The First Amendment doesn’t protect minorities enough. IT NEVER HAS. If you choose to accept the abuse you are either a self-hating Jew or a delusional. But don’t expect others to do the same.

            You guys need to grow up on this site and admit that this was damn wrong.

      • 0 avatar
        Ltd783

        It’s called not being a bigot. PC is a manufactured term to try to defend backwards thinking, and attack progressive thinking. Using pejoratives and insults or attacking someone for who they are is wrong, and will always be wrong. Its not politically correct, it’s just correct.

        • 0 avatar
          marc

          “Its not politically correct, it’s just correct.”

          Love this response.

        • 0 avatar

          “progressive thinking”

          Is that anything like a progressive disease?

          Actually, the term “politically correct” was an invention of the left, to determine the parameters of acceptable speech for orthodox leftists, undoubtedly an effort at thought control.

          • 0 avatar
            Ltd783

            Says the man who’s already used the N word in this discussion.

            “Orthodox leftists, thought control” Holy cow. I’ll just leave it at that, it’s clear this can go nowhere logical…

          • 0 avatar
            ClutchCarGo

            “progressive thinking”
            Is that anything like a progressive disease?

            Only if you equate thinking with disease, which in your case may be so.

    • 0 avatar
      MPAVictoria

      Agreed. You should be ashamed of yourself Bertel.

    • 0 avatar
      TRS_Mike

      Oh, no no, it’s cool, I’m taking it back.

      -Randal Graves

    • 0 avatar
      missinginvlissingen

      It’s also not good writing. Because with all these comments focusing on the word “dyke”, it seems your word choice has distracted from the content of the writing.

      But whatever, clicks are clicks.

  • avatar
    marc

    Pretty pathetic, shameful attempt at being edgy.
    I don’t know many lesbians who would appreciate it, even those who throw the term around themselves.
    And I know the right-wingers love to cry foul here….”Ooo, you’re being so sensitive, so PC.” Some of them have already started above.
    Nope, I’m being civilized. More people should try it sometimes.

    TTAC’s slide to the bottom continues.

    • 0 avatar
      Hummer

      Ironic, you are trying to call people out for what seems discrimination, yet you then discriminate against “right wingers” being the problem.
      Might want to take a notice at California, where the large majority are liberal yet they voted down the marriage act.

      This aint Burger King, you can’t have it your way.

      • 0 avatar
        marc

        I did not use a pejorative term for right-wingers. Those on the right wing would be proud to call themselves right-wingers.

        A small majority of voters in that California election voted against marraige equality. Unfortunately that was not a real representation of the views of the California electorate, which skews slighlty more liberal. California is not nearly as liberal as many folks believe. There are MANY conservatives in CA, and they won by getting more of their passionate members to the polls, after a well funded hate spewing campaign, much of it by those outside the state.

  • avatar
    rpol35

    The Wrangler doesn’t seem to be even close in class or attribute to the other vehicles in the crash comparison. A Jeep Patriot appears to be a good representative vehicle but a Wrangler is no where similar to a Patriot or any of these other vehicles; it’s a slab sided steel box on a 4 WD, RWD bias platform with solid (live) axles. It’s still not that far removed from its 1940′s era namesake. Granted, it may not be as crash worthy as some of the others but this seems to be an apple & oranges comparison.

  • avatar
    kjb911

    as a member of the GLBT community I could care less about the PC of the article hell IM waiting for a joke about gay makes that makes me laugh out loud we are not without stereotypes In he car world either…jokes between my friends include that if he drives a mkiv jetta he’s prob a friend of dorothy

    • 0 avatar
      marc

      I’m gonna have to call you out on this one. Minority groups always had those members who try hard to assimilate into the mainstream. I too am a big ‘mo, and unfortunately I have met LGBT folks who would agree with you. But many of us believe that while we continue to suffer intolerance, random beatings, and fewer civil rights that it is just not appropraite to use pejoratives against us in normal discourse. And to think that doing so is ok is a little self-hating.

      I would also direct you to your use of the term “friend of dorothy” to prove my point. Because you didn’t say f****t, did you? Why not? Cuz it’s not funny. A stereotype that gays drive Jettas (which duh, only gays and sorority girls do) may be funny. But saying f****ts drive Jettas is not funny.

      Had the article said “Lesbians rejoice!” I’d have had a nice chuckle.

      • 0 avatar
        kjb911

        I would generically save f__ot for those of my friends in beetle convertible I have no problem with the word except no idea how the censors for the site would treat it…there are only words, bad people, bad intentions, and then just words…it’s not self hate it’s taking away the ability to harm with words there are a lot of injustice and civil rights to discuss but this is a car forum who cares I read this site to get away from political banter but seems latley not the case I respect your opinion however and you have valid points I just think differently

        • 0 avatar
          Summicron

          I like you, kjb911.

          But you write like one of my Asst. Director’s e-mails.

          I’d like to send you a delightful gift assortment of punctuation marks.

  • avatar
    Beerboy12

    I don’t think the Jeep Wrangler belongs in that group. It is a purpose built off road vehicle and the rest are family wagons.
    Not that I mean to be nasty about the modern SUV, they have their uses and I can see why they are popular but they should not be confused with a wrangler.

  • avatar
    skakillers

    I’m not sure exactly what auto news has to do with lesbians, I guess they occasionally buy cars like everyone else, but that’s about it.

    Words like dyke, queer, fag, tranny, etc. are all words that have been reclaimed or reappropriated by various communities at various times, but when you use them you need to keep in mind that there are people out there who have had these words used against them in the context of being the victim of a hate crime. Obviously you are not using the word in that context, but the point is that these words aren’t uncharged. You can say whatever you want to say, but don’t think that it’s free and progressive and doesn’t affect anyone. People other than straight males like to read about cars too, and things like this reinforce the frankly unwelcoming attitude prevalent all throughout the automotive community towards those folks. It’d be really cool if TTAC could be a little more welcoming about these things.

    • 0 avatar
      ramjetroger09

      Since this is TTAC, the only acceptable word in that group (dyke, queer, fag, tranny) would be tranny, I should think…

  • avatar
    grzydj

    Autoblog reviewed the 2014 Subaru Forester and didn’t make one generalization about Subaru owners in the article at all. This is a first for automotive journalism. Ever.

    Page views ++ for TTAC for scraping the bottom of the Jalopnik barrel.

  • avatar
    honfatboy

    Lost a lot of respect for Bertel today. I thought he was smarter than that. My mistake.

    • 0 avatar
      Ltd783

      Bertel is consistently the reason this website is tanking. Don’t forget he has an Asian wife, so he has a license to be as offensive as he wants, and we’re all just “overly PC” (a made up term to defend bigotry).

      • 0 avatar
        marc

        You just identified the 2 biggest props bigots hide behind-a belief that their relatives, friends, etc give them license to be bigots; and that the rest of us are just a bunch of PC whiners. I don’t buy either one of those, and refreshingly it seems like many here also do not.

        • 0 avatar
          Hummer

          You see, in the scientific community you study and make observations to come to a solid conclusion, you don’t make generalizations.
          I don’t act differently around any group of people no matter race, gender, preferences etc.

          Treating someone differently or changing yourself to adapt makes you look like a fake around people. Speaking your mind tends to get a lot more respect in the real world, I don’t use the language the editor uses in my life around anyone. However if someone wants to say such, they have the freedom to do so. Denying something because you can’t handle certain truths or opinions, or because you see it as socially unacceptable is simply not right, you should analyze yourself and your views rather than someone else’s.

          • 0 avatar
            Ltd783

            I don’t want to know who gives you respect for not using a “language editor” and dropping the N word or f_____t. I don’t have to use any filters, I’m just not a bigot. Not saying sexist, racist or homophobic things just comes naturally if you honestly judge people for who they are.

      • 0 avatar
        Stumpaster

        He is also Jewish so he can make all those jokes. Oops, I got confused, he’s just a Nazi. Oh shucks, here I go generalizing again.

  • avatar
    Lorenzo

    Jeepers creepers, folks! First Godwin, and now political correctness run wild. Both are tactics to intimidate a speaker, change the subject and/or shut down debate.

    My twin sister owns a 2001 Forester. When she bought it new, her daughter told her it’s a lesbian car. That’s the reputation of the car, whether you like it or not, and that’s all Bertel was referring to.

    It’s disheartening to see TTAC’s so-called best and brightest generate a majority of comments that have nothing to do with the post, or cars. This website’s name includes the word “truth”. Sometimes the truth is ugly – it’s a mean world out there. If this website dabbling in the real world upsets you, try disney.com.

    • 0 avatar
      skakillers

      The arguments and comments posted here have nothing to do with cars because lesbians have nothing to do with cars. This is a website about cars, why does it need to use words that have been used to oppress people in order to make a joke?

      Do you want to know what political correctness is? Attempting to use language that doesn’t oppress or hurt people. Why do people have such a problem with that?

    • 0 avatar
      marc

      Calling lesbinas dykes is not “truth,” it’s offensive.
      No one is trying to intimidate Bertel, but straight white men calling lesbians dykes IS a form of intimidation.
      A dunmb stereotype is just that, a dumb stereotype. That it may or may not be offensive or may or may not be funny is not the issue. The issue is the use a pejorative.
      Asking for pejoratives to not be used is not “PC run wild.” It is civil. This site lately lacks civility.

      • 0 avatar

        Do you tell the “Dykes on Bikes” riding motorcycles in gay pride parades that they’re offensive?

        • 0 avatar
          marc

          “Do you tell the “Dykes on Bikes” riding motorcycles in gay pride parades that they’re offensive?”

          You’re kidding right?

          In-groups use of term. It’s been explained here repeatedly. Bertel even tried invoking it in his post, though he’s a woman-loving man, last we heard. You may disagree with this allowance, but if you do, how come there are no posts about those Cadillacs loved by n*****rs. You won’t do it, will you? I dare you.

          But you won’t hesitate to make a slam at the gays. For absolutley no reason other than to get hits.

          Nice TTAC, real nice.

          • 0 avatar
            ringomon

            Yep this is exactly right. And why I’m done here after today.

            Despite the claim that they should be able to use whatever word they want devoid of context without provoking a reaction, they would never use the same construction against other groups. It’s just that in this case it’s an easy target that they feel safe putting down.
            Which shows how abhorrent it really is.

            It has nothing to do with first amendment, as that only has to do with relations to the government. We’re readers here showing our displeasure at the editorial decision, not claiming criminality- which is a (often-used)dodge by Ronnie so he can play the freedom canard. He basically indirectly admitted upthread that the post was insulting. If there’s nothing insulting in what Bertel is saying then what exactly are we supposed to be tolerating?

          • 0 avatar
            Summicron

            “I’m done here after today”

            May I have your avatar?

          • 0 avatar
            geeber

            The same rules should apply to everyone. The use of a term is either acceptable across the board, or not acceptable. Certain groups don’t get a “pass.”

    • 0 avatar
      Ltd783

      The stereotype also existed that African Americans were less intelligent than Caucasians for hundreds of years. So you’d be fine with TTAC calling a new car “Dumb as an N-Word”?

      It’s not the truth. It’s a stereotype. I own a Subaru, and I’m not LGBT.

      • 0 avatar
        Ltd783

        I’m calling you out on it.

        If Bertel doesn’t ban you for using the N word twice now, then this website is completely out of control.

        • 0 avatar
          Ltd783

          Nope I didn’t say that, I’m just refusing to engage you. One, arguments with the mentally deranged rarely go well. And two, due to your repeated use of the N word, most of your comments should be removed soon.

      • 0 avatar
        MPAVictoria

        Feel like a big man now Ronnie?

        • 0 avatar
          marc

          Ronnie has become more offensive than Bertel’s pejorative use. I hope he’s proud of what this site has degenerated into.

    • 0 avatar
      Jellodyne

      Yeah, they’re really just trying to suppress the crash test results, and shut down the debate about the crash test results. I’m not calling you stupid, but that’s a very stupid point you’re making.

    • 0 avatar
      thelaine

      I always check Disney.com for the new princess outfits and there’s not a goddmn thing wrong with it. How the hell else are you going to find new doll clothing, you homophobic sons of btches?

  • avatar
    word is bond

    Why? Was this supposed to be humorous? I just found it strange and off-putting.
    Just feels wholly out of place for this publication. Didn’t seem funny to me at all. Was it just supposed to be incendiary? Just a strange choice. If the intention was satirizing those who still beat to death the tired joke that lesbians drive Subarus, then that was not conveyed in this post. Just don’t get it – what was the point of that?

    • 0 avatar
      Ltd783

      The point is Bertel is a bad writer. Much like a comedian who thinks a boring anecdote with the F word in it 20 times is somehow edgy.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        It’s easy to say someone is “bad” at something just because you don’t like it or agree with it. Look at the body of work and then make a judgment, and whatever that judgement is, be able to back it up with facts.

        • 0 avatar
          Ltd783

          I’m saying Bertel is a bad writer because his posts are uninteresting, and this isn’t the first time he’s used or endorsed unnecessarily
          inflammatory language to bolster clicks on his mundane stories. I don’t think we need reminded of the “chink eyed” controversy he so vigorously defended.

          • 0 avatar
            Summicron

            Someone with an inside track on Asian manufacturers and who has lived a life in global auto production is “uninteresting?”

            Maybe you’d prefer:

            http://www.vroomgirls.com

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I don’t recall the “chink-eyed” controversy but I’ll assume it happened. Maybe that was in bad taste, and maybe some of his other comments were in bad taste. This is the feedback I would give the author, and if enough people continue to be offended it will be reflected in his hit count.

            Is being in “bad” taste the same as being a “bad” writer? I’m not so sure but open to another’s interpretation.

          • 0 avatar
            Ltd783

            Yeah, good point, I guess he uses good grammar and punctuation. I suppose he’s not a bad writer, just a thoughtless writer at times.

            I forget his name, but the Brazilian contributor referred to I think a VW of some some sort with a number of offensive Asian stereotypes, Bertel jumped in to defend against every comment criticizing him, removed comments etc. The whole debacle was bad enough other car blogs reported on it.

  • avatar
    Ryoku75

    I’d like to remind everyone that Bertel did NOT write that line on lesbians, he only quoted it.

    The CUV thing doesn’t surprise me given their downward hoods and such, straight hoods and tall front ends are a thing of the past.

  • avatar
    jimble

    The Reuters headline, “US small SUVs score badly,” refers to SUVs sold in the US, not to vehicles manufactured by Detroit-based companies. With the exception of the Wrangler, which is a total outlier in this group, the Big 3′s products did as well (or poorly) as everybody else’s. So “Detroit loses” in your headline is as factually incorrect as “Dykes win” is politically incorrect.

  • avatar
    Junebug

    I am so f…ing sick of political correctness. You know what it is? It’s a politician trying to get votes and not offend anyone. Screw it! I don’t like everybody, there’s a lot I’d like to see just get a huge punch in the face with a Abbrams M1A1 – like those sub human sacks of crap that do bombings in the name of whatever crap cause. And Timothy McVeigh counts big time in case you’re thinking I’m just singling out the radicals in Iraq. I’ve spent most of my life working side by side with folks that have had their own useful idiots speaking out on their behalf and you know what? Black folks call each other n….r all the time and laugh when I (old white guy) look at them with the WTF look. I had good friends that were lesbians and would point out who was “butch” or “dyke” to me as opposed to the “girlie girl”. You’re never going to have the peace/love/harmony uptopia ok – some folks are going to call you a whatever, get over it. I’d rather work for a man or woman that spoke their mind and let everyone know where they stood that some mealy mouth PC spouting spindless hack.

    • 0 avatar
      skakillers

      Your comment touches on exactly what the problem is with Bertel’s use of the word dyke in the title of this article. You mention lesbians you have known who use it within their community, and black folks using the n word within their community. It’s entirely about who is using a word, and in what way. Just as it would be inappropriate and hurtful for a white person to use the n word to refer to a black person without knowing anything about them or their relationship with that word, it’s inappropriate for an (ostensibly, I don’t know Bertel that well) straight man to use the word dyke to refer to lesbians without knowing them, their personal history and comfort level, etc. The comfort level people have with words like this is often different between friends, hence your experiences with lesbians using the words dyke and butch. But to automatically assume that everyone is comfortable with it minimizes the real trauma that some people have experienced in their lives, which, for some, is relived every time they see or hear a word like that.

      No one who advocates for social justice truly believes that they have the prescription for a utopia, or, if claim to, they’re wrong. All we’re saying is ‘Hey, this sort of language can hurt people, in ways that are really difficult to imagine from the outside. Why don’t we not do that?’ Think of it as doing a favor for a friend. If your friend confided in you that a nickname everyone called him made him feel truly uncomfortable, and really made him feel excluded from the group and ostracized, you’d be a dick if you kept calling him that. What is gained from using words historically used to oppress various groups in a casual manner? Cheap jokes? Not really worth it in my opinion.

      • 0 avatar
        Mr Imperial

        If all groups categorized as “minority” TRULY found these derogatory/slang terms offensive, I believe it is that minority group’s responsibility to end use of said term within their own community. (i.e. continuing use of the “N” word within the black community, Dyke/Butch/Queer within the LGBT community, etc.)

        These groups fail to recognize the hypocrisy of claiming offense to these words by “outsiders”, yet readily propagate use of such language with others of the same group.

        If equality/fair treatment is what these groups are striving for, don’t allow a double standard: giving a free pass to your OWN members to call each other such offensive words, yet become outraged when someone “different” than you says the same thing.

        • 0 avatar
          skakillers

          I think there is a general recognition by most people advocating for social justice that words themselves aren’t inherently offensive. Language is a contextual and symbolic construction, and each person has slightly different emotional associations with a given word that shape both how they use the word and how they perceive or react to others using it.

          My point was that, for this reason, who is using a word and how it is used shapes its meaning, in context. We can never say that, as your comment is implying, a particular word is harmful in all contexts, or positive in all contexts. ‘Dyke’, used in the context of the title of this article, condenses everything about lesbian identity to a single crappy punchline, dehumanizing and potentially alienating anyone who identified as a lesbian who might read it.

          Use of a reclaimed slur word (queer, fag, tranny, slut, dyke, the list goes on) by a member of an oppressed minority for which that word has historically been used as an instrument of oppression is a recognition of the flexibility of language. It’s an attempt to take something which was used to hurt and break people down and turn it into a point of pride, an identity to connect with and build community around. That said, it can still hurt when the word is used in its ‘pre-reclaimed’ context, if you will, which is exactly what Bertel was doing here, under the auspices of some claimed sensitivity towards the specificities of lesbian identity and life.

          No one is trying (or at least I’m not) to ban words or create lists of people who are and aren’t allowed to use certain words. No one who advocates social justice wants to live in some PC police state in which you aren’t allowed to buy a non-hybrid or drink non-fair trade coffee or whatever. We simply want to put the message out there that words do have a lot of power to make people feel terrific or awful. I think it’s something that a blog like TTAC with a large readerbase, presumably some of whom might identify as lesbians, should be aware of. This isn’t a prescriptive thing, where I’m claiming that this is the only acceptable way to act. I’m just saying ‘hey, I kinda think it was a dick move to use this word in this way, it could potentially make people who aren’t included super well in car culture already feel alienated and shitty’. That’s all.

          • 0 avatar
            Mr Imperial

            Well said, skakillers.

            I’ll admit that I’ve become more than a little frustrated with how SOME in our country have perverted your key discussion points, implementing radicalism to advance a personal political agenda at others’ expense, under the guise of equality.

            “. . . it could potentially make people who aren’t included super well in car culture already feel alienated and shitty’. That’s all.”

            This made me see the article’s title in a completely different light.

            Thank you for your explanation.

          • 0 avatar

            Shorter version: some animals are more equal than others. Members of anointed groups are allowed to use words and then complain when others use those same words.

            ” No one who advocates social justice wants to live in some PC police state in which you aren’t allowed to buy a non-hybrid or drink non-fair trade coffee or whatever. ”

            Those of us watching how politicized the IRS has become find your declaration to be hollow. The new Dept of Justice rules that they are pushing on colleges over “sexual harassment” precisely create a PC police state that suppresses free speech.

            We don’t believe you. Those advocating for “social justice” (another meaningless phrase) very much want a PC police state. It’s just not politic for you to publicly admit it.

          • 0 avatar
            marc

            “Those advocating for “social justice” (another meaningless phrase) very much want a PC police state. ”

            Those who are so afraid of a PC police state are usually a bunch of bigoted white heterosexual privileged males who want those uppity minorties to mind their place.

          • 0 avatar
            skakillers

            Hey Ronnie,

            I didn’t say anything about anyone being ‘allowed’ to use certain words, or anyone else being not allowed to. If you actually read what I said and digest the argument, rather than employing the knee-jerk argument style you have, we just might end up agreeing about some things. All I did was explain why and how the emotional connotation of certain words is modulated contextually, and I tried to explain how, to a certain group of people, the context in which the word ‘dyke’ was used in the title of this piece (as well as other things Bertel said in the body) could be alienating to certain people.

            Social justice is a bit of a nebulous term, I’m using it because I’m not sure of something to use in it’s place which is superior. The meaning I attach to it is trying to act and live my life in a way that it anti-oppressive, and seeking to make people around me comfortable and happy whenever I can. It’s an extension of my basic philosophy of life, which is, more or less, don’t be a dick.

            I’m not clear on why you’ve brought up the IRS here, I really don’t understand what that has to do with what we’re talking about. Perhaps you could explain that a little more clearly?

        • 0 avatar

          I’ve never heard any self-respecting Jew use the word “kike”.

          • 0 avatar
            ringomon

            What if some did? Then what?
            Could all use it then without it being insulting? What percentage of Jewish people would we need? And who would get to decide if we could all use it then? The Jewish people that have tried to reclaim the term to remove the power from it? The ones that don’t use it and don’t want it to be used? Or the non-Jewish people who are sick of political correctness and want to be able to say whatever they want without it stirring up a reaction? (the very reaction that they in some way or another were trying to stir by using it?)

          • 0 avatar
            marc

            and that’s because nobody else uses it either.

            Since you obviously need a lesson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reclaiming

    • 0 avatar
      marc

      I would lke to work for that man too because when he called me a f****t, I’d sue his ass and make a ton of money.

      Every argument of this all takes the same route:
      Pejorative is called.
      Author is taken to task for being inappropriate, which he is, like it or not.
      Other folks get riled up about the PC police.
      Rational folks remind them that it is simply wrong to call minorities by pejoratives.
      Someone chimes in that he likes being called a pejorative, or his friends do too.
      Others respond that these self-haters dont speak for the whole group.
      Post gets a lot of hits.
      Author makes a ton of money.
      Lather rinse repeat.

      Why do we keep playing?

  • avatar
    friedclams

    Getting back to the cars for a second… I have watched a few of the videos and it’s amazing how many of them have A-pillars that deform to the point of moving the driver’s airbag away and to the right of the driver. So the driver’s head MISSES the airbag. How can this be so prevalent?

  • avatar
    missinginvlissingen

    Why does the Mazda CX-5 show up below a bunch of vehicles that it outperformed on the tests?

    Seems like it should be listed higher, with the X1, CR-V and Tiguan.

    • 0 avatar
      jruhi4

      I was wondering the same thing. Thanks for pointing it out amidst the pointless PC brouhaha and steering the conversation back to the cars themselves…

    • 0 avatar
      210delray

      The CX-5 is not in the correct place. Reuters can’t even copy IIHS’s summary ratings?

      The CX-5 belongs between the CR-V and Tiguan. Cars with the same ratings are listed alphabetically, so any of the 3 other vehicles sharing the CX-5′s ratings should be considered identical for crashworthiness purposes.

      If you fill in “Poor” for all of the N/A’s (the worst possible outcome), you can see how the listed order makes sense.

  • avatar
    bills79jeep

    I clicked the jump to to assure myself that the title was a reference to some great prediction by Alex on the safety of the Subaru Forester. Unfortunately, it was not. Looks I will be staying away from Bertel’s articles for a while.

    PC issue or not, it bother’s me, so I’ll vote with my mouse and click elsewhere.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    I’ll point one thing out, many were critical of the site recently for the excellent gun piece regarding the Vice President and his opinions. I could see the argument because sure “the truth about cars” took come creative license and went into a political area. Now the same website delivers an article on cut and dry car safety data, and some of the commentators turned it into a political issue and the irony is indeed thick.

    Thus the circle is complete.

    • 0 avatar
      Ltd783

      Just because you don’t agree doesn’t make it a “political” issue. Nobody is trying to get elected here. We’re just calling Bertel out for being a bigot. No different than if he’d used the N word. If TTAC would just stick to cars, then we wouldn’t have to deviate from it.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        I do agree with your last point, but I think “calling Bertel out for being a bigot” is a political thing. The definitions of who is a bigot and who is not are determined by political means.

        • 0 avatar
          Ltd783

          Fair point, I do try to avoid personal labels, a more accurate phrasing would be “calling Bertel out for using bigoted language.”

    • 0 avatar
      marc

      I think you will find many here who were critical about both articles. Frankly the tone of this site has become very right wing, white, pro-business, anti-Obama, anti-minority. We did not turn it into a political issue.

      And I certainly would not call that gun piece excellent. Interesting that you do and you like this flame-baiting thread. Speaks volumes.

      • 0 avatar
        Hummer

        So apparently I’m white, and apparently only white people are racist. Hmm….

        Seeing how the left is always trying to racially segregate, your argument seems like something that you “want” to be true rather than actually being true.

        Not everyone fits into the box liberals prescribe.

        Far more on the left are antigay then on the right THAT is why the marriage amendment failed in California. You seem to forget it was only a couple decades ago democrats were extremely anti anything other than straight white male. Republicans on the other side haven’t changed from accepting all view points, might be a few rino’s but no were nearly as bad as tr left.

        • 0 avatar
          Ltd783

          Troll. Has to be. No one’s head is that far up themselves to believe any of that, other than pointing out the Southern shift when Republicans went from being the party of the abolitionists, to the anti civil rights party decades ago.

          • 0 avatar
            geeber

            Wrong. Here are the facts:

            “In truth, the white South began breaking away from the Democrats in the 1920s, as population centers began to develop in what was being called the “New South” . . .

            “But the big breakthrough, to the extent that there was one, came in 1952. Dwight Eisenhower won 48 percent of the vote there, compared to Adlai Stevenson’s 52 percent. He carried most of the “peripheral South” — Virginia, Tennessee, Texas and Florida — and made inroads in the “Deep South,” almost carrying South Carolina and losing North Carolina and Louisiana by single digits.

            “Even in what we might call the “Deepest South” — Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi — Eisenhower kept Stevenson under 70 percent, which might not seem like much until you realize that Tom Dewey got 18 percent in Georgia against FDR in 1944, and that this had been an improvement over Herbert Hoover’s 8 percent in 1932.

            “In 1956, Eisenhower became the first Republican since Reconstruction to win a plurality of the vote in the South, 49.8 percent to 48.9 percent. He once again carried the peripheral South, but also took Louisiana with 53 percent of the vote. He won nearly 40 percent of the vote in Alabama. This is all the more jarring when you realize that the Brown v. Board decision was handed down in the interim, that the administration had appointed the chief justice who wrote the decision, and that the administration had opposed the school board.

            “Nor can we simply write this off to Eisenhower’s celebrity. The GOP was slowly improving its showings at the congressional level as well. It won a special election to a House seat in west Texas in 1950, and began winning urban congressional districts in Texas, North Carolina, Florida and Virginia with regularity beginning in 1952.”

            And then there is this:

            “The point of all this is not to deny that Richard Nixon may have invited some nasty fellows into his political bed. The point is that the GOP finally became the region’s dominant party in the least racist phase of the South’s entire history, and it got that way by attracting most of its votes from the region’s growing and confident communities—not its declining and fearful ones.”

          • 0 avatar
            Ltd783

            What’s the point of all that? Quibbling what year exactly conservatives started pandering to white racists? The fact is, disagreements over civil rights prompted the voter shifts, with the Republicans benefiting from those opposed to it. You can’t revise history

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            Ltd your the only one arguing against the facts, democrats have historically been against civil rights, just as they are now, trying to enslave the minority onto the govt plantation.

          • 0 avatar
            Ltd783

            That is a simply amazing amount of denial. I suppose Republicans have always backed immigration reform and gay marriage? Not just last 6 mos that they’ve decided it was politically advantageous. You can’t revise history by saying so. I bet in another 10 years you’ll be on here claiming Democrats were always against environmental causes.

          • 0 avatar
            geeber

            The point is to show that you are wrong. Your original contention was that the South only went for Republicans in response to the reaction over civil rights legislation. Which, of course, is incorrect, as the South started to move toward the GOP in the 1920s, long before there was any real possibility of the federal government enacting civil rights laws.

            Contrary to your assertion, we are not just quibbling about the dates.

            And if you believe that only whites and conservatives are racist, you obviously have not visited some neighborhoods of, say, Philadelphia, where they all vote for Democrats and they are virtually no whites.

            And now opposing the proposal for “immigration reform” has makes one racist? I guess you missed this article:

            “Members of the African American Leadership Council harshly denounced immmigration reform legislation currently being considered in the U.S. Senate. According to Frank Morris, who heads the group, the bill will ensure that the African-American unemployment rate continues to be double the national figure.

            “For years, Morris argues, employers have preferred to hire undocumented workers because they are a cheap source of labor and depress wages and employment rates for low-skilled American citizens.”

            This article, by way, is from that well-known right-wing rag, the Huffington Post.

            Yes, concerns about immigration have nothing to do with the effect on wages or population growth. It’s all about racism, because anyone who takes the opposite side of you on a public issue can only do so because of a racist intent.

            Indeed, I’m sure that everything is about racism to you.

            Our kitty threw up a hairball on the bedroom floor yesterday. I’m sure that the racist GOP was somehow behind it! Should we appoint a federal panel to investigate it, with Ltd783 as the head?

          • 0 avatar
            Ltd783

            Never said immigration had anything to do with racism, never said whites were only racists. Only said Republicans benefited by pandering to white, conservative racists, that is the “Southern Strategy”. Also never said all Republicans are racists, or all racists are Republicans. Get that foil hat back on before the drones get you. Moving on…

          • 0 avatar
            geeber

            As I’ve shown, the GOP was making inroads in the South long before the debate over federal civil rights legislation, and it hasn’t made big strides by “appealing to white racists.” Those are the facts, and if you can’t accept them, well, they are still the facts.

          • 0 avatar
            Ltd783

            You’ve shown nothing. Random statistical correlation proves nothing.

            I’m done with this. You’re just talking right past me with points that show nothing. Good luck rewriting history.

          • 0 avatar
            geeber

            It’s good that you’re done talking, because the discussion regarding this particular subject is obviously over your head. You’re original contention is wrong, and all of the huffing and puffing on your part doesn’t change that.

            The material that I referenced didn’t use “random statistical correlation” to prove its point, and if you believe that it did, you obviously have no idea what random statistical correlation really is. It would therefore be best for you to stick to discussing cars.

        • 0 avatar
          marc

          And that’s twice you’ve brought up CA defeating gay marriage. You seem to know very little about the Golden State, and I have no desire to explain it again to you. I don’t create boxes, but you seem to be habitating in one.

          • 0 avatar
            geeber

            What is there to explain? In the 2008 election, California voted for Barack Obama in the presidential election but also passed Proposition 8.

            If the passage of Proposition 8 were the result of Republican votes, then why didn’t they also switch the state to the “win” column for John McCain, the Republican presidential candidate that year?

            The simple fact is that lots of Democrats – primarily African-Americans and Hispanics – also voted for Proposition 8. It’s hardly a secret that large blocks of these groups are not exactly friendly to the idea of gay marriage.

            Here is an excerpt from an article from the March 26, 2013 edition of The Washington Post:

            “The discrepancy? African American voters, who were overwhelmingly in favor of banning same sex marriage (70 percent supported Proposition 8) even as they supported Obama even more heavily (94 percent). And, to a lesser degree, Hispanic voters followed that same trend — backing Prop. 8 by a 53 percent to 47 percent margin while giving President Obama 74 percent.

            “The explanation? Many largely black churches supported Prop. 8 while Hispanics, a heavily Catholic community, were more naturally inclined to side with their faith — and against gay marriage.”

          • 0 avatar
            marc

            Geeber, that is certainly true. And possibly had a white candidate been voting, prop 8 would have lost. But even that speaks to the bigger point I made earlier on this issue (which is totally not relevant to the article, but ok). Here is my point again. That more people voted to defeat Prop 8 reveals only the outcome of that election, not the will of the majority of Californians.

            Also blacks and hispanics (also many Democratic Asians in SF too) that helped put it over the top were just a small part of the overwhelming numbers of conservatives who also voted for Prop 8. Small, but enough unfortunately. The campaign was also heavily funded by many conservative groups and churches. And we know money talks in elections.

            I’ve never been a proponent of the Proposition system of voting. Money and an inflamed few do not always speak for the majority. Surprisingly, in a representative democracy, it is often more prudent to leave the democracy in the hands of the representatives.

            Again though, I dont know how this is relevant to Bertelk using a pejorative.

          • 0 avatar
            CJinSD

            You’re thinking geeber, and that makes you a non-entity in the world of the brainwashed. Stay tuned for more empty rhetoric aimed at convincing each other that facts don’t matter and the narrative they’ve been conditioned to believe is all powerful.

            Obama was the reason prop 8 passed. Blacks turned out in large numbers to support him and most voted for prop 8 because they didn’t want gay marriage.

            Saying that racism is exclusive to any group is a rejection of reality, of the principles of equality, and a flag that one has an underlying agenda incompatible with being honestly expressed.

          • 0 avatar
            geeber

            In our form of government, elections express the will of the people. If the people who were against it sat at home, that is their problem. Their side lost the election.

            Mitt Romney failed to get out the vote in the 2012 election, while Democrats worked hard for President Obama, which played a large part in Romney’s loss. That fact that large numbers of Republicans sat on their duffs on election day doesn’t invalidate the results of the contest.

            The simple fact is that large numbers of African-Americans and Hispanics voted for Proposition 8, too. And many of the churches speaking out against it where African-American churches and heavily Hispanic Roman Catholic parishes.

            It wasn’t just white, evangelical Christian Republicans voting for Proposition 8.

        • 0 avatar
          MPAVictoria

          “Far more on the left are antigay then on the right”

          You are high.

          • 0 avatar
            CJinSD

            Think about it. The vast majority of American blacks are on the left, at least in their voting behavior. They’re the ones that showed up in California and passed prop 8. Beyond that, many leftist leaders and insiders have only the thinnest veneer of ideology coating their driving hatred. Many of them quickly express themselves in the most bigoted, taboo terms when they’re disappointed by a member of one of the demographic groups they think they can take for granted. When they’re not doing that, they’re trying to out some conservative, suggesting that being gay is something they should be ashamed of.

          • 0 avatar
            Summicron

            “the thinnest veneer of ideology coating their driving hatred.”

            Like the treatment Hillary Clinton or Yahoo’s Melissa Meyer get on the tech-hipster sites. Leftists are some of the most privately misogynist people I’ve encountered, particularly those from hispanic cultures.

          • 0 avatar
            Ltd783

            Black are the ones that showed up and passed prop 8?!?! This isn’t 1860 where an acceptable parlor room topic is to sit around discussing “the blacks”.

            Is this bizarro world? Republicans are not anti gay marriage? It’s right there in the GOP’s freaking mission statement. You can’t just do something, and simultaneously say “No I’m not.” Only a few Republicans have come out in support of marriage equality in last few months, not because they think it’s right, because it’s pandering.

          • 0 avatar
            CJinSD

            We get it Ltd783. Telling the truth isn’t acceptable in your world. It’s offensive, mostly because it isn’t compatible with what you want to believe.

            “Only a few Republicans have come out in support of marriage equality in last few months, not because they think it’s right, because it’s pandering.”

            I had to quote this. It’s hilarious. What was Emperor Pinocchio doing when he ran against gay marriage and then ‘evolved’ to over rule democracy as everyone that didn’t vote for him knew he would do?

          • 0 avatar
            Ltd783

            It’s not the truth. There’s a big difference between deciding between being pro-civil unions or pro full marriage equality, as the president has done, and having a part of your entire party’s platform be anti-gay marriage, of any kind. That’s a fact.

            Does every registered member of either party vote down party lines on every issue? No. But only one party is definitively anti marriage equality, by having it in their mission statement.

            You say I don’t like it because doesn’t fit with what I want to believe, and at the same time you are trying to justify your ridiculous narrative that Republicans have ever been at all accommodating of LGBT issues. That’s just laughable

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Eh I see your side and if I shared those views I may not think this has turned political. I think it has, but I think we can agree to disagree.

        I thought the gun piece was well written, but will point out the tie in with cars was a stretch at best and could see the POV of those who disagreed with its place on the site.

    • 0 avatar
      skakillers

      I think the main point of many of the people who object to Bertel’s word choice here is ‘Hey, can we get back to talking about cars?’. Bertel was the one who moved the discussion away from cars when he decided to make yet another stupid joke about lesbians and subarus.

      • 0 avatar
        gottacook

        That’s exactly how I feel. It was utterly needless. This is an entirely separate issue from whether it was bigoted or insensitive or whatever. It was just superfluous, and any editor doing his or her job would have questioned it before it was posted.

        [For the record: Although the first Forester in my family was indeed bought, used, by a lesbian, although she prefers the term gay - she and her wife now have 3 kids and had to switch to an Odyssey - the other three were bought by non-lesbians: me and my wife (2006), my 80+ dad (2007), and my sister-in-law who just traded her 2003 for a 2014.]

  • avatar
    sckid213

    I bet the fact that Mitsubishi got an average rating on the offset test for the Outlander Sport wasn’t due to good engineering, but a complete accident / happenstance.

    • 0 avatar
      IndianaDriver

      Not a surprise that the 2013 Mitsubishi Outlander Sport did well. It is part of their RISE body structure to perform well in a crash. What’s very interesting is that the 2013 Mitsubishi Outlander Sport performed well without a vehicle re-design. Subaru specifically re-designed the 2014 Forester to perform well in this offset test, Mitsubishi did not. If not for the re-design to gear specifically for this test, the 2013 Outlander Sport would have been the only small SUV left standing with the “+” rating. Mitsubishi does not toot their horn about the Outlander Sport, but it is really a well designed and very safe vehicle. They should learn from all of the things they have done right with this vehicle and pass it on throughout their other products.

    • 0 avatar
      CJinSD

      Considering how the 2013 Mitsubishi Outlander(non-Sport) fared in tests they knew it would face, I dare say you are right.

    • 0 avatar
      210delray

      The ’14 Outlander comes out next month. Stay tuned!

  • avatar
    iNeon

    Please delete my account. This type of language has no place here, and as a Homosexual man– neither do I.

    • 0 avatar
      marc

      I’m sorry to anyone go because of this. This site has lost a lot of its so-called B&B. I guess Bertel, Ronnie and the ghost of Ed won’t be happy until all but their like-minded minions are left.

      • 0 avatar

        Bertel opened up the site to readers who want to start contributing as writers. Did you submit anything?

        • 0 avatar
          gottacook

          With respect – and speaking as a working editor with nearly 30 years’ experience, mostly at daily and weekly publications – perhaps you need additional editors more than you need additional writers.

        • 0 avatar
          Ltd783

          I’ll say it with no respect intended- Ronnie needs to go.

          Having an editor on staff who thinks it’s acceptable to use the N word repeatedly to prove some political point is beyond the pale. If TTAC wants any journalistic credibility, he’ll be gone soon.

          • 0 avatar
            Summicron

            You must have a hellish time with Hollywood movies.

          • 0 avatar
            dtremit

            Summicron: do you really not understand the difference between an actor portraying a fictional character and a professional editor?

          • 0 avatar
            Summicron

            Guess not.

            May be due to my having located and removed the time-release guilt capsule inserted by public education and triggered by weaponized media to elicit paroxysms of anguish at every sight or mention of that magic word.

            Weren’t my people what done it. Go find a Wasp to shame.

    • 0 avatar
      iNeon

      I’m telling you– I want my name, my avatar– and any contributions I’ve made to this website erased. I can find no provision to DIY, or it would have happened already.

      DELETE MY ACCOUNT

  • avatar
    wmba

    While you lot debate inanities from all uninformed sides, I, as a hetero two ball and elephant-trunk possessor and Subaru owner, was delighted to see Subaru paste the herd. Saw the tests on CTV early this morning, and they were not funny. At all.

    The Honda ACE frame didn’t, the new Ford Escape was an utter disaster, the real SUV Wrangler with railroad tracks for frame rails and front and rear axles silenced its owners forever much like the proponents of battleships were who thought dive bombers were unfair, the Rogue “looked” the worst, and the rest were just plain pathetic.

    So how come that Subaru with am annual output of only 650K cars, and Mitsubishi, which the pundits declare as old-fashioned and washed-up, were the only two makes to “pass”? The rest ought to hang their heads in shame and get to work improving things. At once.

    The extremely erudite and well-spoken IIHS representative pointed out the errors most makes made in design. Now the rest of the industry knows the gnomes in Subaru engineering can deliver the goods with tiny resources, they should examine their own design procedures. You know, kind of like nobody believed the Wright Brothers had built a working airplane until they saw it fly, and then realized “Crap, we were a million miles off in our thinking! We did not understand. What is this wing warping of which you speak?” Then someone aced the Wrights and invented flaps. The industry advanced.

    This is the reason UNECE Standards are useless. In their system, the IIHS doesn’t exist, and in fact would be tarred and feathered out of town for interfering with the bureaucratic process, where vehicles are not allowed to crash in this manner, by fiat and regulation, naturally, designed by armchair Euro experts. I like the US system where a industry outsider can point out obvious errors in the entrenched industry and be heard. Keeps the industry on its toes if they are not to look like utter fools.

  • avatar
    MR2turbo4evr

    Haha. Loved reading the above comments to see how pissy people got about nothing. Keep it up Bertel, I love your work!!

  • avatar
    ringomon

    Basically all slurs and pejoratives have a banal etymology. How does that clear you for using it? Pretty weak-sauce excuse to clear you from using a word that you wouldn’t use to someone’s face (the very bar you set yourself for moderation).

    Bertel is a good writer when he’s doing first person reporting and interviews. It’s these ‘take some data from somewhere else, write up a few short paragraphs complete with out of context stats and predetermined before even digesting the stats “analysis”, thrown in shallow political point or inflammatory click-baiting “humor”‘ posts that cast the shadow.

    Just because you agree with someone’s conclusion on something doesn’t make it good writing. That’s lesson one for half the B&B here. I’m not looking for an echo-chamber, I’m looking for well thought out arguments that provoke thought and preferably respectful discourse about cars. I’m finding that less and less here.

    Count me as another one that’s done with this site. I’ll miss the reviews and the other high-value writing here that’s getting crowded out lately. Wish it didn’t have to be this way.

    • 0 avatar
      ringomon

      “Nice pants f****t”

      “Don’t call me that”

      “why it’s just a bunch of sticks, look it up in a dictionary”

      -The line of reasoning of every 13 y.o. bully trying to exert his dominance (to prop up his own sense of self-worth I guess) and the editor (THE EDITOR!) of a website that is expecting us to take it seriously as a source of analysis and commentary. Seriously. This is a sad day for me as someone that was once an avid reader here.

  • avatar
    Skink

    This from 28 cars later:

    “Any faction seeking additional minority status, additional protection in legislation, and asking for society’s laws to change to accommodate their lifestyle is asking for special treatment, period.”

    Sounds like what we were hearing in the 1960s from racists while blacks were being hammered with fire hoses and bit in the nuts by police dogs. Church burnings, lynchings. All to keep these uppity minorities from getting their ‘special rights’. Yeah. Nice.

    No such ‘additional’ stuff is sought. Just equal rights under the law. There are no diminished rights for adulterers; if you’re gonna go all Old Testament on us, be consistent. Maybe the Taliban has these social issues right. Maybe not.

    • 0 avatar

      Exactly, if I can’t call Mexicans their racial slurs, or blacks their racial slurs, then other people shouldn’t be allowed to use homophobic slurs. That’s equal rights and protection. Educated adults should simply know better then to say that. Especially when you’re using it as a journalist, it reflects upon you directly. If you think it’s okay to use, that says a lot about you.

      I find it interesting how Mr. Schmitt preemptively tried to justify his usage of the word. He knew it wasn’t appropriate, but did it anyway to be an idiot. That isn’t okay, and generally, the response has been negative. If your readers, you know, the people who help pay you and give you a forum to write…are offended by your obvious cheap shot at the gay community, you might want to think about how smart that was.

      • 0 avatar
        danio3834

        “if I can’t call Mexicans their racial slurs, or blacks their racial slurs, then other people shouldn’t be allowed to use homophobic slurs.”

        You can’t?

        • 0 avatar

          No, they can’t. But Mr. Schmitt did, which is my point. It was unacceptable seeing that he bans racial slurs and even deleted multiple uses by another editor in this article. It’s interesting that Schriber’s racial slurs are deleted but Schmitt hasn’t said anything about what he’s done.

  • avatar

    I’m a gay man, and while I’m not full on offended by Schmitt’s use of this language, it still bothers me. I don’t think it’s offensive, but it’s still in poor taste. It’s a bit lazy too, you’re an educated man. If you want to poke fun of what lesbians buy, couldn’t you have just said “lezzie”, “women in sensible shoes” or something similar?

    I spent enough time getting called a fag in high school. It doesn’t really matter whether people are offended or not. A word that’s generally considered a slur, is a slur. A lot of people use the n-word non offensively and still get shunned for it. People use “fag” and “dyke” as a threatening word against the gay community, to heckle and attack. Just because you didn’t “mean it that way” doesn’t make it okay. Most lesbians I know wouldn’t be offended by other funny words for lesbian, but yeah, dyke bothers them. Dyke is lazy, and generally offensive. Use something that’s a bit more creative in your writing. I’m all for being politically incorrect, but once you start using slurs that are used as an attack, you might want to rethink that. Especially if you’re a journalist, where you can be held accountable for what you say by your readership.

    The article itself was quite interesting, I just don’t get why you had to use slurs.

    • 0 avatar

      I would like to point out that when you use a word like Dyke or Faggot, you’re taking an entire community, and summing them up to one, irrelevant aspect of what we are. I am a gay man, but that isn’t who I am. Calling me a faggot or a lesbian a dyke, is ignoring everything about who are as people, and defining us by something that has little to do with what I am. It’s the principle of the idea that you can’t just take cheap shots for hell of it at the expense of your readers. It’s nice to know that you respect us that much.

      You are the editor in chief brah, if the EIC of a newspaper said something like you said, they’d have a PR nightmare on their hands. It looks like you may have the same thing happening. You need to act like an adult. I think us gays and lesbians went through enough as teenagers, we deserve to be treated with more respect as adult, especially by other adults.

    • 0 avatar
      dtremit

      Bertel, just a hint: if you feel like you need to preemptively defend your comments, they’re probably in poor taste.

      I know it’s beating a dead horse at this point, but seriously, I’m disappointed you went there. As a gay man, hearing this kind of language on a site I enjoy feels like a slap in the face.

      It’s not cute, it’s not funny, and it’s not professional.

  • avatar
    Summicron

    Still would like to know why Terrain and Equinox aren’t on the chart.

  • avatar
    CelticPete

    Wow..

    Not a single person wants to talk about the substance of this article? Almost all cars do poorly on the small overlap test becasue its new and postdates the chassis design of the small overlap test. That’s the real story behind this data. FWIW M is not a whole let better then P according to the videos I have seen.

    The question is in the real world how useful is that test and how important is it?

    • 0 avatar
      Summicron

      “Not a single person wants to talk about the substance of this article?”

      Well, not till YOU showed up :-)

    • 0 avatar

      The Small Overlap test is actually INCREDIBLY important. Think about how people hit things, they often times try and swerve away to try and avoid it, which means less of the car actually makes contact with the obstacle, so less of the safety cage and crumple zone can do it’s job. Take for example a semi (lorry) trailer. If you’re going to hit it, you swerve, so when you do hit it, only 25% of the front makes contact, that’s more force on a smaller area. That’s basically the small overlap test. It’s been determined that if you’re going to hit something, swerve INTO it, so that the full front makes contact, distributing the impact forces evenly across the structure. It seems counter intuitive, but that’s how physics works. It saved a friend of mine, he slammed into the back of a car during a snow storm, he managed to swerve into the back more evenly, he it at 50 MPH and walked away because 80% of the front hit the back of the other car. Accident investigator agreed with what he did. Had he swerved away, he would have been injured.

      I hope that makes sense haha. That’s about as much as I know about front impact safety in this context haha.

    • 0 avatar
      Skink

      I think the small overlap test is very important.

      The fact that Subaru decided to design the Forester to handle this impact scenario speaks to their design ethic.

      Having said that, imho vehicles ought to have an airbag deploying along the length of the A-pillar. Even in the superior Forester trial, the dummy’s noggin whacked the A-pillar hard enough to knock the pillar trim out of place. It’s obvious the A-pillar needs an airbag.

    • 0 avatar
      VA Terrapin

      The “substance” of this article? The substance is that you’re safer in a Japanese compact CUV than you are in a German, American or Korean compact CUV. Add other factors like fuel economy, performance, reliability and room, it’s clear that the best compact CUVs are Japanese.

  • avatar
    86SN2001

    “The best-rated Detroit trucklet is the Buick Encore on place 6 with a poor Small Overlap rating. The Jeep Wrangler brings up the rear with a truly mediocre showing. Boo, hiss, Detroit – pussy-whipped by a Japanese transgender crossover that is also known as a “vag-wag?”

    PS: Before you start to tar and feather me for Detroit bashing LGBT discrimination, please be notified that according to the all-knowing Wikipedia, the term “dyke” originated “as a derogatory label for a masculine woman, and this usage still exists.” Shame on them. “However, some persons attempt to use it in a manner that they see as positive, or as a neutral synonym for lesbian,” and those persons include the Schmitts.”

    What does any of that have to do with the results of recent crash tests? Over half the article is complete nonsense.

    Way to stick to your high standards editorial standards TTAC. Between this pile of an article and the “biggest troll” set of articles, you continue your swirl around the bowel.

    • 0 avatar
      cdakost

      You’re just mad about the biggest troll articles because you almost won.

      • 0 avatar
        86SN2001

        As per the usual, you couldn’t be more wrong.

        I could care less what some ignorant commenters think about the truth in my posts. If telling the truth is being a troll, I will gladly wear that badge.

        But what business does that have on a blog about the auto industry?

        Nothing that’s what.

  • avatar
    Skink

    Schmidt, not Schmitt, nicht wahr?

  • avatar
    Summicron

    C’mon people, we’re all homos here….

    Some are sapiens, some neanderthalensis, and at least one likes to think he’s erectus.

  • avatar
    Mr Imperial

    Wow, who would of thought that Rule #25 would have happened here….

  • avatar
    burgersandbeer

    This is easily a new low in trolling for clicks and comments. It was incredibly stupid of me to click this link expecting even half the conversation to be about cars.

    I want my click back.

  • avatar
    cdakost

    You say that the Encore is the best rated Detroit small SUV but if you look at the chart everything from the Encore down the Sportage has the same score. That means that the best rated Detroit small SUV is a tie between the Encore, Escape and Patriot.

    And really I think everyone lost in this test, Detroit just struck out.

  • avatar
    Kyree S. Williams

    I just really have to say this: to those that think the term in question was used to generate clicks and interest—and for the record, I disagree with you there—why on earth would you comment on the article?

    • 0 avatar
      Summicron

      Ha ha! Excellent.

      ‘Bout time you showed.

    • 0 avatar
      burgersandbeer

      Because once I have clicked, it’s already too late. Might as well take two seconds to express displeasure with the tactic.

      For those of us that don’t care for these tactics, the only ways to change them going forward are negative feedback and, most importantly, not clicking.

      I’ve actually gotten pretty good at the later. Disappointed in myself that I went for this one, since Bertel telegraphed how obnoxious it would be before the jump.

    • 0 avatar
      marc

      I for one would like to not have to give up on this site because of a little of stupidity from Bertel. (Now Ronnie’s behavor is driving me to rethink that.) So my commenting and clicking, unfortunate tho it may be as it lines their pockets, is me trying to make sense as to why I should come back tomorrow.

      • 0 avatar
        Ltd783

        Same here. I’ll stick around just for Doug’s stories, but this has been awful.

        And I had no idea Ronnie was an actual editor here, that’s so disappointing, I’d just assumed he was an internet troll. His comments have all been removed now, but I’m wondering if any other blogs will pick up the story of a TTAC editor using the N word at least 3 times on these comments. Simply incredible

        • 0 avatar
          marc

          in pulling his posts, TTAC admits that it is inappropriate to use the N word, so they understand what they have been arguing against. Yet Bertel’s pejorative in the title stands, proving that they have even less respect for gays and lesbians. A pathetic double standard. And now they’re just silent, counting dollars. I’m really repulsed.

          • 0 avatar

            I emailed a copy of this story with Subaru ads to Subaru. Considering that they’re huge supporters of equal rights for gays, I want them to know where they’re advertising money is going. So they may be counting less money here in a few days :)

  • avatar
    30-mile fetch

    Roscoe tried to miss him, but he…didn’t quite.

    Well, now I’m conflicted. Do you try to avoid the collision and risk a serious near-miss like this small overlap test, or do you cut your losses and steer straight into the obstacle?

    • 0 avatar
      Lorenzo

      Interesting question. My dad, who once drove a Model T, would aim for a direct hit, because the T had those springy bumpers, and the brakes were so bad that hitting something was considered an alternate way of stopping (I’ve had several people tell me that). In the modern world, you probably have to take into account what you’re likely to hit, and the extent of the damage hitting it will cause. A school bus full of kids or a telephone pole? And you probably have a fraction of a second to think it over.

    • 0 avatar

      Aim for it if you can. The more of the front of your car that hits the obstacle, the more the crumple zones can distribute the forces. Trying to dodge, and still hitting, but with less of the front, puts a lot more force on a smaller area. That is effectively what this small overlap test is indicating. The 50% standard overlap test shows cars faring a lot better than with the small over lap. It seems weird, but yeah, aiming for it is a better bet most of the time. It’s saved a friend of mine, so it’s my basic strategy.

  • avatar
    seabrjim

    Being a fan of the site, and being an African American car lover,what on earth did I miss?

    • 0 avatar
      MPAVictoria

      Ronnie starter using the n word. The posts have now been deleted. Nice to see a racist exposed for what he is. I check this site every single day because I love cars. What I don’t appreciate is the racist, sexist and homophobic rants that have been coming more and more frequent here. Why can’t the editors of this site start a separate blog if they feel the need to express these sentiments.

  • avatar
    reclusive_in_nature

    If certain words can “hurt” you enough that you’d lobby to have them banned, then you have a shortcoming every bit as bad as those who say the words.

    The irony being that pointing this fact out usually provokes name calling from the afflicted…

    • 0 avatar
      86SN2001

      “If certain words can “hurt” you enough that you’d lobby to have them banned, then you have a shortcoming every bit as bad as those who say the words.”

      Is that why TTAC has policy that we cannot speed negatively about the editors or the site and if we do, were faced with being banned?

      Remember the troll articles when a vote for a TTAC editor was actually a vote for yourself?

      Things that make you go “hmmmmm”.

    • 0 avatar
      marc

      O, that’s rich and insightful. The more intolerant one gets in our society the more likely one is to always cry foul when called out on it, complaining that your intolerance has to be tolerated. No one buys this anymore. And I don’t have to resort to offensive pejoratives to make this point.

      • 0 avatar
        reclusive_in_nature

        “O, that’s rich and insightful”, “cry foul”, and your unsubstantiated claim that “No one buys this anymore.”

        Thanks for proving my point.

        The difference between the “intolerant” and the offended is that the “intolerant” typically don’t care what others think, else they wouldn’t say things that offend the easily offended.
        Just like guns, words do not hurt people by themselves. I could say something exaggerated like, “Everyone knows this,” but it’s plainly evident that there’s a minority of control freaks out there that are too emotionally compromised to accept the consequences of free speech.

        • 0 avatar
          marc

          Exactly, you don’t care what anyone else thinks. So a bit of advice. keep your mouth shut in civil conversations, or you’re likely to get in a lot of trouble. Don’t go around saying n****r, Mot****er, as***le. Don’t go around yelling “fire” in a movie theatre. Don’t threaten people’s lives. Don;t mention the bomb you’re carying in an airport. See you don’t have the freedom of speech you so desperately believe, do you? All these things you cannot do without getting into trouble. But it’s ok to go around using foul langauange about gays and lesbians. If this is the world you want to live in, have a good life.

          Now to reiterate my point. I am not intolerant to not put up with others’ hateful speech, to call them out on it, and to take action if necessary. And you’ll never believe that. And I don’t actually care that you don’t. It’s a circular argument with no winner.

  • avatar
    kjb911

    so seems to me that if you want a safe CUV get a subaru otherwise get a station wagon… preferably in brown, with a manual and possibly a diesel

    • 0 avatar

      So a Jetta TDI Sportwagon basically haha. I love em, generally a great car. VW’s brown is great as well, I’m glad to know we think alike haha.

  • avatar
    CapVandal

    Back to the crash test, no?

    I’m surprised at the amount of green the group got on everything BUT the small offset test.

    I really hope the IIHS has it right (25% of serious injuries and fatalities in frontal crashes are from small offset crashes).

    Because it seems like the cars are engineered to the test. And if they can do it in a small car, they can do it for a CUV. And I will be interested to see if the new 2013 RAV-4 passes. No reason it shouldn’t.

  • avatar

    I just had a brilliant idea, I see a lot of Subaru ads here. Wouldn’t it be interesting to see what Subaru did if they saw this article? They’re huge in the equal rights for gays movement. When the editor in chief of this website is insulting their buyers…they may think differently in where they put their money. Hitting you in your wallet Mr. Schmitt, enjoy the bad press ;)

    • 0 avatar

      and I did. I emailed copies of this article with their advertising attached to Subaru North America. I’m curious to see what their response is.

      • 0 avatar
        86SN2001

        WOO HOO!!!

        Great thinking! Hopefully they pull the ads in post and in haste lol.

        Many, many thanks!

        • 0 avatar
          Summicron

          And thanks, too, for the many iterations of your colorful avatar!

          My D-in-Law loves you, she’s passionate for purple.

        • 0 avatar
          Ltd783

          Just emailed my letter to Subaru of America. Come on, let’s have some more people do it too.

          Bertel thinks this will go away, it won’t. Now let’s hit them in the pocketbook, that might make him feel like apologizing.

  • avatar
    Sceptic

    Enough of this liberal drivel. What makes you think you have the right to impose your moral values on the readers and editors of this site? Just leave if you’re so insecure with your sexuality or race. Just crawl back where you came from.

    • 0 avatar
      VA Terrapin

      Looks like you’re trying to impose your moral values on us. And telling people to leave TTAC? Who made you moderator over the rest of us?

    • 0 avatar
      marc

      America. Love it or Leave it. Wow. Thanks for your inspiring contributions to this.

  • avatar
    Stephen7

    I am very dissappointed in TTAC and especially Mr. Schmitt, whose articles are usually brilliant, to use such a devisive word and stereotypical cliche. But I’m even more dissappointed that he chose to “double down” on his ignorance and stubbornly point to Wikipedia as a rationale. I can just imagine that the person who wrote that was trying to justify something stupid they said as well. It takes a big person to speak their mind, but it takes a bigger person to understand why others could be offended by what you say and apologize. Mr. Schmitt, I’m sure you meant no harm with you words, but please realize that this is one of those words that has been used just for this purpose, to harm. Though some may try to reclaim such words as a symbol of strength or pride, I am quite comfortable to eliminate a handful of words from our vocabulary that can sting as much as this one. I don’t expect that most of people reading this will ever have the firsthand experience of being called anything that hits them in the gut like that, that can make you fear for your life, or sap your humanity in an instant. To all of you who have never experienced that, I hope that you never will, but I also wish that you can empathize for those who have.

  • avatar
    ToxicSludge

    I thought it was ‘women in comfortable shoes’….

  • avatar
    pdieten

    Yeeeeeah…there’s a difference between telling the truth with a sharp wit and being a sociopathic jackass. It’s pretty clear now that the powers-that-be here have no clue what that difference is. Enough is enough. Bookmark deleted.

  • avatar
    Lorenzo

    I wonder to what extent the rounded front clip to make it more pedestrian friendly is implicated in the small offset test results? I don’t like the idea of designing to the crash tests, because it’s too much like teaching to tests. With the latter, the scores are higher but you have to question whether the student is getting a full education on the topic. With crash tests, is designing to the tests resulting in an overall safer vehicle?

  • avatar
    gottacook

    Some of the websites I visit often, TTAC included, are primarily not about politics. When a writer at one of them occasionally expresses a political opinion (or overtly agrees with someone else’s opinion) that I find disagreeable, I just skip over it. If the blog in question provides information and entertainment and sometimes a laugh, at no cost, I’m not going to take great offense; I’ll keep visiting as long as the blog provides these things.

    Inadequate editing, here or elsewhere, is apparently one of the tradeoffs for having free access. Of course, editing is often subpar even at websites (such as those of newspapers) that have started to charge for access, because they’ve vitiated their editing staffs through layoffs or buyouts; it’s not only sad but detrimental to the whole journalistic effort. I’m damn glad to have had stable (non-newspaper) editing work for 20+ years, but I’m starting to feel like a buggy-whip manufacturer.

  • avatar

    I decided to make one more post to make a simple statement to those who are arguing in support of what Mr. Schmitt said. He broke his own rules, I copied this from the rules and they’re quite clear:

    “No hate speech. Racism, sexism and homophobia will not be tolerated. TTAC is read all around the world. Be careful of what we call “racism by proxy.” Saying “I hate Eskimos” is racism. Saying “Samoans hate Eskimos” is racism by proxy, it is insulting two nations instead of one, and it will not be tolerated either”

    If the rules state this Mr. Schmitt, you better follow them. You’ve hit both sexism and homophobia in one rather short article. If you’ve banned other people and/or deleted their posts for homophobia or sexism, then right now you look like a massive hypocrite. The debate can be ended simply with this, he broke his own rules. Beyond that the debate is certainly interesting, but serves only to express just how enraged much of the readership is. I love when people who run websites and forums break their own rules, it always makes them look fabulous.

  • avatar
    86SN2001

    Well Bert, I hope you feel satisfied.

    By a wide margin, you have disappointed a bunch of your readers. And I thank those readers for expressing their disgust. I’m surprised on what side of the line the majority (vast majority actually) fell on regarding these comments.

    So, what is an appropriate punishment for doing something so stupid? Should you ban yourself? Suspend yourself? No, that’s what us peasants would get. You, though, deserve more. Should you be terminated? Absolutely, but not after a public explanation as to what you think you were trying to accomplish with your comments. Explain yourself.

    Now, do I think TTAC has the backbone to do any of that? Hell no. They won’t address the comments, they’ll just hope it goes away.

    So, in anticipation of that, I think everyone should follow in BombayBerke’s foot steps and write to Subaru and inform them exactly what their advertising dollars are supporting. Below is the link to the contact form and what I wrote to them:

    https://www.subaru.com/shopping-tools/contact-us.html

    “Dear Subaru,

    On May 16, 2013, a blog dedicated to reporting automotive news and events published an article that was extremely insensitive to the LGBT community.

    The article was written by Bertel Schmitt and published by The Truth About Cars (TTAC). In it he was reporting on recent test results of new compact crossovers. In the article, he made mention that your vehicle, the Subaru Forester, was the only vehicle tested to achieve good ratings across the board (congrats BTW!).

    The article was titled, “Small SUV Crashopalooza: Detroit Loses, Dykes Win”

    And in it, he stated this:

    “Top honors took a trucklet that, according to the Urban Dictionary, is “driven by post-menopausal lesbians:” The Subaru Forester.”

    He went on to say:

    “The Jeep Wrangler brings up the rear with a truly mediocre showing. Boo, hiss, Detroit – pussy-whipped by a Japanese transgender” (transgender was crossed out) “crossover that is also known as a “vag-wag?”

    And then there was a paragraph justifying his poor choice of words.

    The comments to the article exploded with disgust for his choice of words.

    The sad part is, I see a lot of ads for Subaru on TTAC.

    I am requesting Subaru take a look at these comments and decide if this is the kind of mindset that you want to support and spend ad dollars on.

    A link to the article is posted below:

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/05/small-suv-crashopalooza-detroit-loses-dykes-win/#comment-2051240

    Thank you for your time,

    xxxx”

    Your move Bert…and TTAC.

    • 0 avatar
      Ltd783

      Nice work! I’m an attorney, I think I’ll forward them that letter on my work letterhead, that tends to get a companies’ attention real quick. I’ll make sure and add something about another editor dropping the N word repeatedly.

      Bertel needs to apologize loudly, drop Ronnie, and hope he can salvage this situation.

    • 0 avatar
      marc

      done. good move.

  • avatar
    Adub

    Bertel wins: I laughed and clicked on the story. Normally I’d skip crash test ratings because I’m not in the market.

    Too many pussies here are getting their panties in a twist. They need to go play with themselves and let off some steam.

    That said, there are three types of people who buy Subarus: WRX owners, safety Nazis, and LGBTA members.

    • 0 avatar
      Ltd783

      I own a Subaru, and I’m none of those things. Grow up

    • 0 avatar
      marc

      And now TTAC is ok with one of the so-called B&B calling the rest of us “pussies.” The disgust I have with this site gows exponentially.

      • 0 avatar
        Ltd783

        Have you emailed SoA yet Marc? I just sent mine, let’s be loud about this.

        https://www.subaru.com/shopping-tools/contact-us.html

        • 0 avatar
          marc

          I did. It’s time for this country to realize that pejoratives toward LGBT are just as unacceptable as those directed toward other minority groups. Maybe some good will come of this.

          • 0 avatar
            Ltd783

            The thing is, 99% of people do know it’s wrong. A teacher would be fired, a politician would not be elected, or anyone else would be scolded for using this language. But from behind the pulpit of their computer screen, people turn into bullies.

            Let’s make them regret this.

  • avatar
    grzydj

    Why has the editorial staff been so quiet about this article?

  • avatar
    Juniper

    Nice Job BS. I thought you were running a car site.(:

  • avatar
    Dan

    I’m not sure what’s funnier, Bertel’s headline or the flock of self-important whiners it brought out of the closet and into conniptions.

    Well done, Mr. Schmitt!

    (There’s a Subaru in the driveway as I type this.)

    • 0 avatar
      marc

      I am neither self-important nor in the closet. I am not sure why anyone in 2013 thinks it is whining to point out when someone is being offensive, especially when their offensive comments VIOLATE THEIR OWN POLICIES.


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