By on May 3, 2013

2013-Honda-Accord-018-550x366

Honda is making a big bet on CVT transmissions, with a $470 million assembly plant that will crank out as many as 750,000 CVTs and employ 1,500 people.

Automotive News reports that the plant, located in Celaya, will be located alongside a factory that will produce the next-generation Honda Fit. Currently, the 4-cylinder Accord, Insight and Civic Hybrid all use CVTs, and the next generation Fit is expected to get that transmission as well. But more models will have to employ those gearboxes to help meet capacity requirements, and Honda is being tight-lipped on future product plans (as per usual).

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56 Comments on “Honda Building CVT Plant In Mexico...”


  • avatar
    Type57SC

    Puts a new and boring twist on their UK campaigns…

    youtu.be/fB_1gPRCLCo

  • avatar
    fredtal

    Fewer manuals. More CVT. It’s just a little too sad.

    • 0 avatar
      Jacob

      Honda one of the few companies that does give you the manual option. You get the Accord Sport 6mt, Coupe V6 6MT, as well as the LX, EX, etc and Civic SI.

      • 0 avatar
        FuzzyPlushroom

        Exactly. Honda’s shifters are nicer than most in the beige market sectors it occupies, so it’s really a shame not to get a manual if you can. If not, well, so far the CVT sounds nicer than their automatics historically have been.

  • avatar

    Mexico just got less cool.

  • avatar
    Eggshen2013

    I just drove a Subaru with a CVT.
    All I can say is I will NEVER own a CVT equipped car.

    • 0 avatar
      Kyree S. Williams

      I’ve never had an issue with our CVT-equipped Murano. The CVT-equipped Caliber, on the other hand, was a dog, and I’m glad it got replaced with a Sonata a couple of years ago.

    • 0 avatar
      Tim_Turbo

      What was it, a Justy? Haha, just kidding. I’m not a huge CVT fan either, but I think Subaru has done it better than some of the others out there. And honestly, it’s better than the ancient 4spd auto they replaced. For the average driver they will work out fine. As for me, I’ll always prefer a manual.

    • 0 avatar

      In the same time a friend of mine swears that he’ll never own a car with a tranditional automatic. Never never never never. To put his money into his pie hole, he bought a 94k miles Murano (with cassette player!). A few thousand miles later, the engine started chugging oil. The CVT is still like new.

      At least now he’ll have a selection. I imagine it was tough back when the only available car with CVT was a Ford 500.

    • 0 avatar
      Jacob

      You should test drive Accord Sport with CVT, the one that comes with gear ratio paddle shifters. Most people were impressed with this one.

    • 0 avatar
      Alexdi

      The one in the Subaru is crap. I drove one in a four-cylinder Legacy and it was just awful.

      Try Nissan. Any Nissan. The one in the new Altima is great coupled with a four. With a V6, you’ll have a hard time going back to any other transmission.

      • 0 avatar
        Tim_Turbo

        I actually prefer the one in the Subaru to the 4-cyl Altima I drove. With the 6cyl Maxima/Altima/Murano I agree with you. On the flipside, the CVT in the new Forester XT goes quite good. So maybe as long as you hook enough power up to the damn things they work fine.

        As a disclaimer, as part of my job as a rental car company manager I drive company cars, and have to switch out every week-so that is why I have driven so many different cars. I’m not out on the sale lots taking test drives.

    • 0 avatar
      Sam P

      Drive a Maxima or Altima with a CVT. I like them.

      The big selling point for me on CVTs is that they don’t hunt between gears like traditional automatic transmissions, especially in the mountains.

      • 0 avatar
        jpolicke

        I just hope the new generation Nissan CVT is better than the last one. Once they got the ‘whine of death’ the only hunting they did was for a service bay. A failure of ours at 50k was enough to put us off this technology.

        • 0 avatar
          Dave M.

          Well to be fair, my Trooper ate transmission #1 at 60k, #2 at 170k. First was covered by warranty, as should the Nissan CVT up to 100k I believe.

          The 2nd one I took out a loan….

    • 0 avatar
      Dan

      The number one reason CVT is a dirty word is because nearly all of them have been installed in gutless, EPA tuned economy cars. People seem to forget that those cars are noisy, unresponsive dogs with planetary autos too.

      Nissan and now Honda have shown that with an adequate motor in front of it and some sound damping the CVT can do just fine.

  • avatar
    canddmeyer

    Mexicans buy Honda’s too, so this isn’t unexpected. Hopefully the quality stays just as good.

    • 0 avatar
      Charliej

      I own a Mexican built car, and after eight years, it is still running fine. Since I now live in Mexico, my next car will likely be a Honda Fit. I live about a hundred miles from the factory. When I lived in Alabama, I drove an Odyssey. I try to support the home team.

      • 0 avatar

        The quality seems all over the place. For example, when Chrysler handed PT over from Belvidere to Toluca, quality nosedived badly. Other cars are just fine, however. It seems that Mexicans can build a car as bad or as good as their management desires, according to the allocated budget.

        • 0 avatar
          seatiger

          The Chrysler PT Cruiser was never built in Belvedere, Illinois. They were built in the Toluca, México plant and the Eurostar plant in Austria.

          Yes, those were the same PT Cruisers that won the JD Power and Associates quality award.

          Interior quality did a nose dive because Daimler management asking for 40% cheaper interiors on Chryslers, to not make competition with more expensive Benzes.

  • avatar
    blowfish

    never drove a CVT
    what are the bad points?

    is it slow to response to ratio change?

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      For me the bad points are the constant drone of the engine at speed and the gradual, almost rubber-band like response to throttle input when accelerating or passing traffic.

      But, starting with Volvo, all manufacturers have made great improvements with their own version of the CVT, which originated in the Dutch-made DAF sedan. I drove one in Germany in the seventies and I was underwhelmed.

      But in 2010 I drove a Nissan Altima 2.5S on a business trip over the course of a week and more than 1600 miles. It felt so good to get back to a car with a step transmission, once I got home. It was reassuring to feel the gears shift.

      Also, I didn’t get that great a gas mileage in that rental Altima but that’s probably because I had the pedal to the metal most of the time to get some decent acceleration from that 2.5L engine.

      We have a friend who had TWO CVTs go out in her Murano within five years, and she bought a 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 with a six-speed step transmission to replace it.

  • avatar
    slavuta

    To all the reasons not to buy Honda there is one additional. I really don’t know what to buy now. My last strong Japanese made car, the Mazda3 is also moving to Mexico. I will not buy Mexican car, period.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      The Japanese auto makers are going to build more cars in the countries where they will be sold, outside of Japan. The US, Canada and Mexico feature prominently as assembly arenas for the North American market.

      I am a recent convert to Toyota products but other Japan-built Toyota owners have told me that they don’t make them like that any more.

      For instance, a friend of mine owns a 1989 Japan-built Camry V6 but he won’t buy a US-made Camry to replace it.

      I own a 2008 Japan-built 2008 Highlander and it has been a flawless vehicle — no problems. My wife’s sisters bought a 2009, 2010 and 2011 US-made Highlander and did not enjoy the same ownership experience as we did.

      I understand your dilemma. It’s a crap-shoot when they’re not made in Japan and use different part suppliers.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        Agree, everybody in the world knows that there is no equal to Japanese work-ethics and education. Workers are given just right conditions there.
        Mexican worker is not educated enough to me, to work on complex devices. They work hard but they think of siesta. Japanese are like machines.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          Oddly enough, I find myself in agreement with Obama when he preached to the Mexicans the need for closer cooperation with the US to expand the development of Mexican industry.

          Maybe that would keep more Mexicans at home instead of coming over here.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I seem to recall that argument being pushed by either the Bush I or Clinton administration. Since then the US has lost hundreds of thousands of jobs, so if this becomes the case, while it *might* stabilize Mexico more Americans will be out of work.

            The key to Mexican stability IMO will be to smash the Cartels through covert means and make deals with whomever survives to keep the drug trade professional and scale back the insurgency (yes I realize this is the plot of Clear and Present Danger).

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            28-Cars-Later, you’re right on all counts but the problem of Mexico’s lagging economy and industrial base predates the cartels.

            I have a daughter-in-law who was born in Mexico and came over here illegally with her parents and sibs when she was 12. I’ve learned a lot from them and their friends and family. Their migration serves only ONE purpose — to make money!

            When my son was an enlisted man in the Army (way back when) there was no need for her to become an American citizen.

            But when he got his commission, she HAD to become a citizen or he would have lost his TS and crypto security clearance as an officer.

            She became a US citizen twenty years ago but no one else in her family ever did.

            For the decades that they all lived here they just passed themselves off as US citizens, drawing all the benefits that the US provides to its citizens, including the right to vote, the right to foodstamps, welfare, free medical care, etc etc etc. Still happens today, all across the US.

            Had there been better opportunities in Mexico they would have stayed there to build a life. But her grand parents were invited to come to America during WWII and they just stayed on until they died and were buried back home in Mexico.

            They’re not dumb or stupid people. She and her sibs all have at least a four year BS or BA college degree, courtesy of the US taxpayers, from states like CA, AZ, NM, TX and FL.

            As it is, her family enjoyed the best of both worlds, making money in the US, not paying income taxes on it, and using that money to buy property in Mexico.

            To them the drug cartels are a non-issue and reflect isolated instances of violence.

            Ditto with my American-born Mexican contractor and foreman who works and makes his money doing contracting jobs in the US and owns property and real estate on both sides of the border.

            I think most Mexicans would agree with you that their government needs to do whatever it takes to expand their industrial base to provide jobs for their own people.

            And as far as Americans losing jobs in America? I believe that NAFTA was instrumental in helping that along.

            Many foreign companies have set up plants and shops in America, many of them in right-to-work states, much to the chagrin of the UAW and other unions.

            But the key to American jobs lies with our own government’s economic policies. As long as our government punishes business owners and corporations through high taxation, there’s no incentive to expand any business in the US.

            I believe that’s why so many corporations are buying back their own stock, instead of hiring more employees and expanding the business.

            In America it doesn’t matter what you earn. What matters is what you actually get to keep.

            I hope more companies, foreign and domestic, will open up shop in Mexico and Central America, and use NAFTA to improve commerce throughout the US.

            We’ve been doing it for decades in conjunction with Canada. Let’s expand south.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        There are two things a manufacturer can do to mitigate the “not made in Japan” problem in my view:

        1. Assessment/selection of new employees
        2. Robotics

        Robotics are an obvious answer and of course already see widespread use, I would suggest pushing the envelope further but that’s easier said than done. However there are some jobs simply not suited for robots, such as working with small parts, or building complex machinery. This is where psychological assessment comes in, both VW and Caterpillar use a “drag and drop” web product to assess potential a manufacturing employee’s hand/eye coordination and measure logic skills (and to a lesser extent IQ… see the youtube video below). I know this because I work on the product, and its a major pain in my ass to maintain in 2013 since its all Classic ASP and Active-X. VW I think assessed something like 80,000 people for 2800 jobs when they built Chattanooga (my numbers may be a bit fuzzy but is was something like a 3% hire rate after assessment).

        http://www.youtube DOT com/watch?v=Pyhlha0jLak

    • 0 avatar
      Truckducken

      Would like to hear in more detail what you have against Mexico and/or Mexicans.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        Nothing personal. Just don’t believe in low-educated personnel assembling high complexity mechanisms with quality.

        • 0 avatar
          Truckducken

          But that describes almost every assembly workforce. Pretty sure it’s all about training, not ‘education’. Chrysler and Ford have had very good results with Mexico assembly; I suspect others will too.

    • 0 avatar
      Sam P

      What’s your beef with Mexican cars? I’d buy a Mexican-built Honda if it lived up to the quality of US-built Hondas, which have been excellent.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        Honda quality is biggest automotive myth. They compromised themselves too many times to consider them any better than Mazda, for example.

        • 0 avatar
          Dave M.

          Consumer Reports and TrueDelta might disprove your theory. And my anecdotal experience as well.

          The most egregious transplant work product? BMW, MB and VW in South Carolina, Alabama and Pennsylvania respectively.

          But I have to agree it’s in the selection and training of the workforce, since Honda, Toyota, Nissan and Subaru have all had huge success with their transplant products.

    • 0 avatar
      SherbornSean

      Slavuta,
      Just FYI, global surveys place Mexico at the top for having the hardest working population. When I worked there last year for 4 months, that was certainly my experience – the dedication of my Mexican co-workers was truly impressive, certainly shaming what I typically see in the US.

      I don’t know what you have against Honda or Mexico, but then, none of us can force anyone to give up their racist beliefs.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        I guess, I am racist. I like Japanese and don’t like Mexican. But I am not Japanese. At least I know that I like Mexican food and annual vacations on Rivera Maya.
        And yet, as consumer and researcher, I will stay away from cars made in Mexico, China, Russia, Germany, Belgium, France, Italy, Spain…
        I happen to see assembly quality of Mexican-made cars. Also, as someone pointed here, American-made Camry is just not the same. I seen this with my eyes.
        I have 3 cars, all made in Japan. All 3 excellent quality. I had many Japan-built cars and I had Mexican, American and Canadian. Canadian Civic was not bad (with Japanese parts) but generally, Japanese-built cars were simply better, long-problem-free-lasting cars.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          I wouldn’t beat yourself up too much on being a “racist”. The Japanese have a proven track record of building a better product than most in the world at the time, Mexico simply does not. So in 1985, the only auto manufacturers doing it better were Mercedes, BMW, Volvo, maybe Saab and none of those were doing it at the same price point as Toyota, Honda, and Nissan since Euro offerings were much, much more expensive.

          In making a superior product there is a matter of the nation’s culture/belief system, education, biology (to a point), and in the manufacturing itself, superior processes and quality of parts. Japan in its time was superior in almost all of those fields, biology being the only one I could argue against them being vastly superior vs say the US and its manufacturing. Now if you compare 2013 Japan to 2013 Mexico, in the worker segment its almost no contest to Japan and there is little that can be done about it. However if Mexican assembly were to harness a similar or superior manufacturing/qc process and more importantly (in my mind) has a high quality of parts available I would say its possible Mexico could build a decent quality product. The defects per 100 count would probably jump several points in the end, but I don’t think it would ever get to an unacceptable level.

          Now if I were to make a prediction, I would say this whole operation hinges on how the Mexican workers take to the Japanese mfg/qc processes and if Honda will be shipping in parts from Japan or attempting to use locally sourced parts.

          I think whats happening with “American” Toyotas is TMC is using locally sourced parts (which could also be found in American built cars) and they are simply inferior to their Japanese counterparts. You could make a series of arguments about Japanese vs US culture/worker pride, US worker intelligence inferiority or US worker laziness vs Japanese worker etc but I think its mostly bunk as Japan and the US are both first world nations and have had thirty or forty years of half decent education and upbringing. I think its the parts and to a lesser extent an deviation from the Japanese processes which make the US built Toyotas inferior to the Japanese built models.

          For the record my primary car is a Canadian built Pontiac Grand Prix (rental I found out later) I bought used with 53K and I have had one actual problem with it in 3 years/20K due to GM’s idiotic power steering rack design, which of course has no bearing on worker assembly.

  • avatar
    CelticPete

    CVTs just aren’t very responsive – and thus suck for enthusiasts. i will explain why:

    CVTs are slow to change ratios (From a low to high one or vice versa) but because they have many different settings they can find the ‘perfect’ ratio for optimal efficency.

    Thus they get good gas mileage but are shit to drive. With a mighty powerful engine they can feel okay because when you are in a high “gear’ the engine can still pull some.

    But its pretty bad compared to a regular automatic – not to mention an 8 speed auto. The newer 8 speed autos can do a 8 – 2 shift in 500ms which I think even a manual driver might be hard pressed to do..(especially if he was concerned about blowing up his engine).

    The only people that generally like CVTs are the ones that were forced to drive shitty cars (Hey its better then my old Camry with the 2.2 liter engine and the 4 speed auto!) and people who generally just don’t want to accelerate quickly. Because of they way they work they are smooth – but smooth and unresponsive.

    By the time you really get going (it shifts into a lower gear setting) you are usually going faster then you wanted).. Nissan is fixing this problem some by adding actual planetary gears. But still it seems like only useful technology for CAFE and not the real world.

    The idea situation is to build such a flexible engine you dont’ need different gears (electric for example). These cars basically drive around in the equivalent of second gear all the time. Other then that enthusiasts want to quickly be in the right gear for the situation. Thus a manual, automated manual and then a modern automatic would be the three best solutions.

    • 0 avatar
      Alexdi

      Um, no. Lovely theory, no experience. Go drive the current-gen V6 Altima and report back.

    • 0 avatar
      thornmark

      From the reviews I’ve read the Honda CVT is now the best available in the US, reliability not known:

      “Altogether it’s an odd pattern compared to most other conventional CVTs, what results is much more in line with what you’ll feel in a conventional automatic transmission—with more oomph just after you take off and an easing of forces as you reach your cruising speed. As we observed in our First Drive of the 2013 Accord, it feels more ‘natural.’

      While that itself impressed us, what’s the most noteworthy in the Accord’s CVT is how quickly it can respond and bring revs up when needed. For instance, a number of CVTs (including the one in the 2013 Nissan Altima, surprisingly) will feel completely flat-footed and off their game if you roll around a corner at 15 mph with your foot off the gas and then accelerate at full throttle. The time to tap into full thrust is delayed for a surprising time. But in the Accord, it very quickly raises revs all the way up to the Accord’s 6,600-rpm redline. Pull off the same test, dipping into half throttle out of the corner, and it very quickly finds the right ratio for the throttle opening—feeling a lot like downshifting and with no slow, muddled ramp-up.

      How did Honda achieve this far better (we think) CVT calibration when rivals like Nissan have been working at it for so long?.”
      http://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1079054_2013-honda-accord-attention-to-g-forces-yields-a-better-cvt

      • 0 avatar
        Lorenzo

        Thanks for pointing out that with any new technology, there’s a period of improvement and refinement. There were probably people in the 1920s and ’30s who thought disc brakes were too complicated and drum brakes more reliable. They would have been right, too – in the ’20s and ’30s.

        The tech has advanced to the point that people wonder how full size cars could stop even with power-assisted drums in the 1960s (answer: barely adequately). CVTs look like a simpler and potentially more durable replacement for gears and hydraulics, but there’s plenty of room for refinement.

        Nissan is using them after tweaking durability issues, and it looks like Honda has addressed the driving characteristics well enough to place a huge bet on them. Given Honda’s engineering chops, I’m not willing to sell them short based on experience with more primitive CVTs.

  • avatar
    CelticPete

    The CVT altima isn’t nearly as repsonsive as the 7 speed in the G37. Its pretty obvious if you actually understand how CVTs work. Its continously variable – but it can’t jump from one gear to another like a planetary transmission.

    Responsive is not the same as acceleration BTW. THe 3.5 altima accelerated decently from a stop. It’s just when its in a high gear it doesn’t want to ‘switch.’

    This is not a long time – don’t get me wrong its a few seconds instead of a half a second – that’s all. But its noticeable and less fun for an enthusiast.

    • 0 avatar
      Alexdi

      That’s a particular bit of nonsense. I test-drove the G37 with the 7-speed and specifically chose a Maxima instead because the automatic was such a dog. The new Altima ‘switches’ just fine.

      • 0 avatar
        CelticPete

        I don’t believe you. Not in the least. Here is why:

        Some recent consumer reviews:

        “So why do I suddenly hate it? CVT…The car has no oomph when you need it to MOVE! The tach shoots up to 5000RPM, the engine make a LOT of noise, but the speedo just kinda slowly climbs up casually. I’ve also experienced the shudder that others have posted about. To me, it feels as if the car was in a higher gear to start from a dead stop-that is, if it had gears. It’s kind of like starting in 3rd gear from a dead stop. Overall, I’m not a fan of the CVT

        Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1205_2013_nissan_altima_sl_first_test/#ixzz2SNQl2uaK

        Dec 28, 2012

        “There are two separate CVT related complaints being reported with the 2013 Altima. One impacts the 3.5 liter cars and the other the 2.5 liter cars….”

        Just for fun I will pull something from a different forum:

        “Nissan! WWWHHHHYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!! I HATE CVTs!!!! I have now driven two cvt equipped Nissans and they are awful! I’ve never had less fun driving a car.

        They do accelerate, but it is such a reluctant, almost whinney change of speed as to ruin the whole occasion.”

        http://backfires.caranddriver.com/forums/53/posts/337629

        So sure its only “ME” who writes nonsense..I explained WHY its ‘reluctant” to change speeds. My girlfriend who is asian was actually amazingly filled with hate after driving a CVT Altima. It was almost comical. I had rented the car for a whole week and had her drive it just for a half day and she was quite upset about what she described as “lag”.

        It turns out the smooth nature of the CVT doesn’t offsets its reluctance to change gear..

        They are cheap to make – if you drive gingerly its probably a good choice as they can put more money back into the rest of the car.

        Still I go..

        Manual > Automated Manual > 8 Speed Auto > 6 speed Auto > CVT > 4 Speed Auto.. For the most part..some companies have inexplicably awful manuals (Subaru) and some have excellent ones (Mazda, Honda, Audi, BMW).. So there is some variation..

        The Mazda Skyactive drive one is interesting though – I haven’t driven that one yet as Mazdas are quite as common rental wise. But they claim its the best of all automatic worlds.

  • avatar
    shaker

    The Honda Fit would probably benefit greatly from the CVT – the low-torque 1.5 is hobbled by gear ratios that favor quick acceleration at low (city) speeds, but lead to a high RPM drone on the highway. The CVT can be tuned to that motor and will result in gains in acceleration, quieter highway cruising, and better fuel economy. Just make sure the Sport gets nifty paddle shifters.

    • 0 avatar
      Sam P

      Sounds like Honda thinks so as well.

      http://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1080516_2015-honda-fit-powertrain-preview-drive

      “And in general, we experienced a responsiveness and linearity from the driver’s seat that’s lacking in some small-car CVTs. The rubber-band delay isn’t completely excised, and you do feel a little bit of ‘drag’ when moving back and forth from about 1/4 throttle to 3/4 throttle, but for those sorts of situations there are steering-wheel paddle-shifters that tap into seven simulated ‘gears.’

      Otherwise, Honda’s new 1.5-liter works well with the CVT; it’s more of a middle-rpm engine, just as the current engine, but it revs into its highest ranges smoothly and without all that much noise (less than we remember from the current version). Meanwhile, we didn’t notice any DI clatter at idle, but we started with a hot engine and DI engines tend to be a bit noisier on cold starts.”

  • avatar
    ExPatBrit

    In my college days there was a guy whose family seemed to specialize in buying weird stuff.

    His Dad had a Daf Daffodil with a Van Doorne Variomatic CVT . I believe it had a 750cc 4 cylinder. You had to replace the belts fairly often but it was a relatively easy cheap task .

    Just a weird vehicle but it was actually kind of fun to drive especially when in town.

    His brother in law had a NSU Ro80 with the Auto Manual and we all know how that turned out, whilst he had a Renault Caravelle.

    Unfortunately he grew out of it, now has a BMW 5 diesel.

  • avatar
    CelticPete

    “And in general, we experienced a responsiveness and linearity from the driver’s seat that’s lacking in some small-car CVTs. The rubber-band delay isn’t completely excised, and you do feel a little bit of ‘drag’ when moving back and forth from about 1/4 throttle to 3/4 throttle, but for those sorts of situations there are steering-wheel paddle-shifters that tap into seven simulated ‘gears.’

    The rubber band delay can’t be completely exercised because of the technology itself. The CVT uses pulleys and these pulleys take time to shift.

    http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/TECHNOLOGY/OVERVIEW/cvt.html

    The result of course is smooth power changes but its not as repsonsive as a planetary automatic or an automated manual. A regular automatic manages shifts in as little as half a second (modern one) and an automated manual in 2/10 a second.

    These are of course more EXPENSIVE. The reason why the Japanese are switching to CVT is that they are cheap, smooth and get good gas mileage. But as far as performance goes they are slow and unresponsive to change to throttle position.

    Paddle shifters will not help because of the way the CVT actually works.

    And like alot of people of course I have driven one. You can’t go to a rental agency and not get a Nissan nowadays. Nissan like Honda uses to make sporty FWD cars. But now they have switched to appliances.

    IT makes sense for the millenials I suppose. But if you are an enthusiast you will want to steer clear of CVTs because of how they work. Its like FWD. Does it work – sure kinda. Is it an optimal choice for performance. Hell no.

    Even Nissan knows this. What kind of tranny do they use in their sports car (the GT-R) and AUTOMATED MANUAL. Why? It changes gears faster then a human can.

  • avatar
    sportyaccordy

    Honda is very shrewd. They wait for everyone else to flesh out the issues with new technology, and then adapt it with solutions. Direct injection is the best example of this. Google “carbon buildup” in combination with any of these brands: Audi, BMW, Mazda, Hyundai, Volkswagen… you will see tons of threads on forums and really nasty pics of intake valves caked over with tar. They’ve all fixed the problem now by using hybrid fuel injection systems that use port injectors to wash the valves.

    They also use motorcycles as their test bed. They’ve had DSG transmissions available on the big VFR for years.

    • 0 avatar
      CelticPete

      One man’s ‘Shrewd” is another man’s behind the times. Honda used to be ahead of the curve technology wise. With the best damn little engines around. Now they are a laggard.

      • 0 avatar
        Dave M.

        Regarding engine technology, Honda still is one of the most prudent purveyors of engine excellence. They were never really much into the other tech areas, although they tried to point Acura in that direction.

        • 0 avatar
          CelticPete

          Well the double wishbone suspension in their civic was pretty sophisticated – that was ahead of the curve.

          The NSX was basically a reliable Ferarri – so that was pretty much light years beyond any of the domestics and probably ahead of some of the Germans as well.

          I don’t know if its the yen or what but they aren’t really pushing the envelope. Earth Dreams and Skydrive is basically the same stuff Audi has had for the past ten years – no joke..

          I have read that fat profits allowed cars like the Supra Turbo and even the Mitsubishi 3000GT to be created. Those cars were pretty much overflowing with technology.

          But for like the past 5-10 years Honda has been sticking with things like non direct injected SOHC engines. That’s way behind a DOHC direct injected turbo charged engine if we are talking technology..

          Even Ford and Chevy seem more technologically advanced nowadays..


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