By on November 1, 2012

Pursuant to our continued discrediting of the “Jeeps built in China” lie, Donald Trump took to Twitter to further propagate that falsehood. And the Donald ended up getting a virtual earful from Ralph Gilles, head of Chrysler’s SRT Division.

The Trump tweet that launched a thousand shits reads as such

Obama is a terrible negotiator. He bails out Chrysler and now Chrysler wants to send all Jeep manufacturing to China–and will!

Gilles took a direct and concise course of action, one that may even qualify him for a Farley Award. Now, if I can find an auto exec willing to rebut a silly question from a journalist inquiring why their new product’s rear sway bar isn’t 2mm thicker, I will die a happy man.

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136 Comments on “QOTD: “You Are Full Of Shit” – Ralph Gilles to Donald Trump...”


  • avatar
    danio3834

    Embarassing for both of them. Adults behaving badly.

    • 0 avatar

      Donald Trump is a stupid, racist a-hole and I hope he goes to bed in absolute pain every single night until his kidneys explode.

      I’m gonna add Ralph Giles to my Twitter.

    • 0 avatar

      One is a supreme d-bag with a massive ego who jumps at the chance to support blatant lies in a pathetic attempt to get press coverage, and the other used a naughty-word because he is frustrated that facts mean nothing to these idiots. This is definitely a case of false equivalence.

      • 0 avatar
        DeadWeight

        I empathize with Giles.

        Not only is Trump factually wrong, but Trump is El Douchebag Grande Supremo.

        Sometimes, one has to call a bullshitting, narcissist’s bullshit for what it is.

        I’m a libertarian who hates both (allegedly) different main political parties equally, FWIW.

      • 0 avatar
        snakebit

        Mr. Trump, Scotty from the Enterprise is lookin’ for ya, he wants to beam you back to whatever sad sack planet you arrived from.

        Mr. Gilles, let’s get you vetted(no, I didn’t mean vipered) now, so that when Mr. Obama finishes his term in four years, you can be ready to step in. You’re definitely presidential material.

    • 0 avatar
      Loser

      I’m glad to see Ralph telling it like it is. He said what anyone else would have said. Good to see someone at his level not afraid to speak his mind without bowing to the P.C. police.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        “I’m glad to see Ralph telling it like it is.”

        Mr. Gilles’ comment makes him sound defensive, which can backfire.

        Donald Trump is a self-aggrandizing, loudmouthed liar, and he deserves to be confronted with some nastiness. But it would have better for Mr. Gilles to have responded with a bit more snark, rather than resorting to profanity and no substantive rebuttal.

      • 0 avatar
        car_guy2010

        “P.C. police”

        Is there an actual police force out there that censors people or is this just another right-wing meme?

      • 0 avatar
        Advance_92

        It’s been used to cast bigots as poor victims for at least 20 years now, why would it stop?

      • 0 avatar
        Loser

        “Is there an actual police force out there that censors people or is this just another right-wing meme?”

        Why is it so many here feels the need to turn every comment into something political?

        Here is what I meant. He used a “bad word” that most people use ever day in the same way. Nobody has the balls to say what they’re really thinking for fear of offending someone or hurting feelings. With so many people looking for new ways to be offended it’s good to see someone of Mr.Gilles’ status not trying to dilute what he wants to say. I want to know where I stand with someone rather than have them sugar coat it. I had no idea wanting to hear someones true thoughts and feelings was a “right-wing” thing.

    • 0 avatar
      John Horner

      Props to Gilles. He isn’t behaving badly at all, he is telling it like it is. Such “foul language” is used in the boardrooms of the world every day.

    • 0 avatar
      kkt

      It’s about time someone told Trump the truth. That kind of lie is not the time to respond with a mousy “I believe your statement is not entirely accurate.”

    • 0 avatar
      zerofoo

      I only see one adult behaving badly – that’s the one blatantly lying.

      We need more people like Giles calling out others who purposely lie to further their agenda.

      That’s why I read TTAC. It’s one of the few media sites that will actually hold people accountable for the things they say.

      • 0 avatar
        danio3834

        As a corporate person myself, I would always refrain from publicly sinking to the same level as someone like Trump. Apparently everyone here thinks that eye for an eye is a suitable response from a professional. Maybe that’s where our society is headed.

        I would prefer to take the high road and politely state the facts and let them plainly show that Trump is full of shit, instead of simply returning the agression.

    • 0 avatar
      PDO999

      Attaboy Ralph. More people need to call out this worthless fuck.

  • avatar
    tkewley

    The real question here is: why does anyone care what Donald Trump has to say about anything?

    • 0 avatar
      stryker1

      +1
      right on.

    • 0 avatar

      Because there is a contingent of low-information, ignorant, bottom-feeders in America who eats at the bottom of the trough on the most disgraceful things that can be said about our President. For them, anti-Obama comments are like catnip.

      It’s one thing to disagree with the man’s policies, but I’ve never seen such disrespect to the office in my life.

      I want to see him win just to shut these idiots up.

      • 0 avatar

        Amen.

      • 0 avatar
        jaje

        I agree that it is disgraceful as both sides have their army of pundits who spread lies and misinformation to fit a narrow viewpoint. It is just not Obama that had to deal with this but GWB and Clinton who was often attacked by party extremists. Douchebags are abound in politics and news media.

        Now, if you think the “news” on Faux News and MisinformationNBC is “fair and balanced” then you must might be one of their ignorant sheeople.

      • 0 avatar

        jaje

        “fair and balanced” is the title of my Youtube.

        Why?

        cause I think it’s the most ridiculous phrase I’ve ever heard. If you have to advertise you are “fair & balanced”, then you probably aren’t.

      • 0 avatar
        corntrollio

        bigtruckseriesreview speaks the truth.

      • 0 avatar
        geeber

        bigtruckseriesreview: It’s one thing to disagree with the man’s policies, but I’ve never seen such disrespect to the office in my life.

        You must have been in a coma during the years 2001-08. Or else you were providing today’s bit of unintentional humor. In that case, I thank you.

        That’s almost as priceless as saying that Chryslers are more reliable than Acuras and Hondas.

        And here I thought I’d have to wait for the next installment of The Bachelor for my weekly dose of people saying unintentionally hilarious things.

      • 0 avatar
        el scotto

        @ Bigtruck; Unfortunately the bottom-feeders exists on both sides. I’ll try to read political commentary on the web. The comments quickly degrade to “Mittens” and “Nobama”. What’s worse is I’ve seen this go on for over 300 comments. Read them? No.

      • 0 avatar

        “That’s almost as priceless as saying that Chryslers are more reliable than Acuras and Hondas.”

        An Acura would BURN ITS ENGINE OUT AND EXPLODE before being able to beat my 300SRT8 supercharged in any drag race.

        And I’ll even take my supercharger out and race him.

      • 0 avatar

        el scotto

        I’m not talking about the faceless bloggers.

        I’m talking about from Republican congressmen and elected officials.

      • 0 avatar

        Don’t get the vapors. You must have just started watching politics if you’ve never seen such disrespect to the office of the president.

      • 0 avatar
        probert

        @geeber,

        Let’s see: Bush took a robust treasury and emptied it. Allowed a terrorist attack on our soil because of his incompetence, sent other peoples’ children to war based on an obvious lie, allowed Katrina Victims to suffer needlessly, Operated an illegal national wiretapping scheme, outed an active cia agent during a time of war, led the country into a depression/recession – not to put too fine a point on it but which part didn’t you get? Which part of disrespect did he not earn in spades. where were you during that time?

      • 0 avatar

        probert

        There is some sort of false equivalency that has people thinking George W. Bush’s flack and Obama’s flack are equally deserved.

        The difference – as you pointed out is that Obama is only in office because of how poorly the Bush administration performed.

      • 0 avatar
        Rick T.

        “….I’ve never seen such disrespect to the office in my life.”

        You write well for a 4 year old because this is nothing compared to the treatment of President Bush.

      • 0 avatar
        gslippy

        @probert:

        You lost me starting with how GWB ‘allowed’ a terrorist attack on our soil. If you believe that, then you must also believe WJC ‘allowed’ the 93 WTC bombing, Oklahoma City, Columbine, and the USS Cole incidents to occur – all under his watch. And you must concede that the Benghazi disaster was ‘allowed’ under the current President.

        Don’t forget that Bush’s “rush to war” was preceded by 14 UN resolutions, a 5-year Iraqi boycott of UN weapons inspectors, and allied intelligence (not just US) that Iraq was up to no good. Personally, I believe the weapons existed but were moved to foreign soil. But maybe all that intelligence was wrong. Better not to act on any intelligence at all, if it could be wrong.

        Since you brought up Katrina, let’s see how Sandy’s victims do. There is only so much the Federal government can do for people, but many people disagree that there is a limit.

        It was Richard Armitage who outed Valerie Plame; GWB had nothing to do with it.

        I’ll grant you that the wiretapping thing is a problem, but BHO has continued it – huh.

        As for the subject of this blog, Mr. Gilles will be eating crow if any Jeep production ever ends up in China. Mr. Trump can afford to say anything he wants; Mr. Gilles cannot.

      • 0 avatar
        schmitt trigger

        +1

      • 0 avatar
        sunridge place

        ‘As for the subject of this blog, Mr. Gilles will be eating crow if any Jeep production ever ends up in China. Mr. Trump can afford to say anything he wants; Mr. Gilles cannot.’

        I guess we can add you to the list of people who don’t get it. There is no question the Jeep is planning to open up factories in China to build vehicles that will be sold in China. So, Mr. Gilles will not have to ‘eat crow’ if Jeep production starts in China.

        There are two types of people distorting this.

        Type A says: Jeep is moving all production to China.

        Romney fit into this group on his stump speech a few days later and Trump fits into this group with his tweet…note the word ‘all’ That is a 100% incorrect statement.

        Type B says: Jeep is moving production to China

        This is a half-truth without the rest of the story with the clear intention to make the person hearing the message assume that they are moving all production to China and laying off US workers. Type B people can claim they are telling the truth (wink, wink) because the statement is technically correct. Although its not really ‘moving’ existing production…minus the few exported units that are built today for China sales. This is mostly incremental production. Type B people clearly have the intent to deceive. TTAC’s own Ronnie defended these people the other day as ‘telling the truth.’

      • 0 avatar
        ranwhenparked

        @gslippy

        Some Jeep production is going to end up in China – no one is even arguing that, Chrysler just signed a deal to build them there.

        The same way Chevrolets, Buicks, Cadillacs, Fords, Hondas, Nissans, Mitsubishis, Hyundais, Kias, Mercedes, etc. are all being built in China right now.

        It’s called a JOINT VENTURE. If you want to sell cars in China, you either have to A) build them there, or B) be subjected to ridiculously huge tariffs that make them unaffordable for their intended customers. This isn’t a new concept, every major automaker in the entire world builds cars in China to sell in China, Chrysler is pretty much alone in not having a presence there and they need one fast.

        American Motors, Chrysler, DaimlerChrysler, and Chrysler again already built Jeeps in China from 1984-2009. The new deal with GAC Fiat is just intended to replace the old deal that they lost 3 years ago as part of the bankruptcy.

      • 0 avatar
        86SN2001

        “but I’ve never seen such disrespect to the office in my life. ”

        Me either. Thankfully, the man-child will be kicked out of the White House in less than a week.

      • 0 avatar
        el scotto

        @probert Wiretapping? http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/

      • 0 avatar
        APaGttH

        We rarely agree but, hear, hear! I am in the exact same boat. I just did my ballot. Did not vote for Obama in 2008 – did a write in vote for who I thought was the best qualified. I was going to do the same this year but your post, word for word, sums up how I feel.

        Just a couple of months ago the “entertainers” that masquerade as bringing news to the people on the right were saying if Mitt loses then just blow up the Republican party. Just to watch them back pedal from the hype, to watch their heads explode like in the movie scanners, and to hope it sends some sort of message that I won’t be swayed by lies and fear – I would like to see 4 more years to just shut them the Hell up. Tuesday night and the end of the ads and BS can’t come fast enough.

      • 0 avatar

        bigtruckseriesreview @ Youtube, is not over stating the issue. In a day where Steven Colbert has a following, wealth and influence 100 times that of Gilles’, and says things like this about Trump:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxLxLccFehs
        …Gilles’ comment is no where close to immature.

      • 0 avatar
        30-mile fetch

        sunridge place:

        Bingo! Nicely summed up. I didn’t think this was such a difficult concept either, but apparently it is.

      • 0 avatar
        geeber

        bigtruckseriesreview: An Acura would BURN ITS ENGINE OUT AND EXPLODE before being able to beat my 300SRT8 supercharged in any drag race.

        Apparently you are unaware of the Acuras and Hondas that have successfully competed in races for many years, or Honda’s success with F-1 racing.

        And then there’s the fact that Hondas and Acuras have a much better track record of delivering reliable, everyday performance in the real world than Chrysler products. Your Chrysler will be falling apart while the Hondas and Acuras keep rolling. My suggestion is to become familiar with various reliability surveys, and the engineering of various vehicles, before saying anything more and thus providing addtional proof that you really don’t know what you are talking about.

        bigtruckseriesreview: And I’ll even take my supercharger out and race him.

        Anyone can modify a car to go faster. I would hope that a 300 SRT8 with an after-market supercharger coiuld beat a dead-stock Acura and Honda.

      • 0 avatar
        geeber

        probert: Let’s see: Bush took a robust treasury and emptied it.

        The federal budget was slipping back into deficits before President Bush took office. The federal budget showed a surplus because of the “tech boom,” which had already ended in early 2000. This surplus came from a boom that was not sustainable and had ended before President Bush took office. President Clinton’s main contribution was not to mess it up.

        If one drops the concept of a “unified” budget and looks only at the federal budget and revenue, President Clinton had deficits all years but one, when he had a 2 percent surplus. The budget began running a deficit before the infamous “Bush tax cuts” were in effect. And then there’s that little event on 9/11 that led to an increase in spending for security and a war in Afghanistan, not to mention the new prescription drug plan for senior citizens.

        I’m sure that Democrats were complaining about the cost of that plan and it’s potential effect on the federal deficit.

        Oh, wait, they were complaining that it wasn’t generous enough.

        Never mind!

        probert: Allowed a terrorist attack on our soil because of his incompetence,

        Let’s see…the planning for 9/11 started in 1999. Who was president then?

        probett: sent other peoples’ children to war based on an obvious lie…

        Plently of prominent Democrats – including Senator Hillary Clinton, President Bill Clinton, Secretary of State Madeline Albright, Senator Carl Levin, Senator Ted Kennedy, and Al Gore believed that Saddam Hussein was developing weapons of mass destruction.

        I guess they were all lying, too?

        probert: allowed Katrina Victims to suffer needlessly…

        You appear not to understand that STATE and LOCAL governments are primarily responsible for disaster relief.

        The suffering of Katrina victims was caused by the failure of then-Governor Kathleen Blanco and Mayor Ray Nagin to implement the established evacuation plans of the state of Louisiana and city of New Orleans. Mayor Nagin was responsible for ordering the evacuation of New Orleans, and he didn’t do so until President Bush personally called him and urged him to make that call. That is MAYOR NAGIN’S fault.

        The federal government does not have the authority to intervene in a state emergency without the request of the governor. Governor Blanco not only failed to send a timely request for specific aid, she did not ensure that the state’s emergency operation facility was in regular contact with Mayor Nagin and FEMA.

        The federal government is not the first responder in an emergency situation. That role is for state and local governments.

        probert: Operated an illegal national wiretapping scheme…

        You mean the one that the present occupant of the White House has largely continued? I’m sure that you are outraged about that, and would NEVER have overlooked this for partisan reasons?

        Or should I believe in fairies and unicorns, instead? Probably the latter…

        probert: led the country into a depression/recession…

        The factors that led to the depression/recession were in place long before Bush took office, and they were not the result of “deregulation” or the free-market run amok. They were the result of meddling in the markets by the federal government, and then guaranteeing the losses of institutions that took risks and initially reaped huge profits.

        Those policies, by the way, where strongly supported by liberals.

        probert: not to put too fine a point on it but which part didn’t you get?

        See above. Your simplistic interpretation of events is inaccurate. In the future, I would suggest that you expand your reading material beyond Solidarity to gain a better understanding of the policies and forces that have led us to the present point.

        probert: Which part of disrespect did he not earn in spades.

        Translation of your sentence – It’s okay to disrepect the president of the opposing party, but I throw a tantrum when the other side does it to the president I support.

        Thanks for clearing up that one. Around here we call that “hypocrisy.”

        probert: where were you during that time?

        Learning how the federal and state governments actually work, and what has actually happened since the late 1940s (history didn’t start on January 21, 2001), something I highly recommend for you.

      • 0 avatar
        danio3834

        Sinking to that level is never the answer. It’s that line of thinking that has sunk both parties to do nothing but issue factually retarded low blows to each other.

        This “win at ANY cost” mentality doesn’t win people over, it further divides them.

        With how polarizing politics are in the US, no one seems willing to admit their side has any fault, only furthering the downward sprial of the nonsense.

      • 0 avatar
        geeber

        bigtruckseriesreview: There is some sort of false equivalency that has people thinking George W. Bush’s flack and Obama’s flack are equally deserved.

        You don’t understand the issue.

        The issue isn’t whether one can criticize the president. Obviously, in a free society the president should expect to be criticized. That is the cornerstone of a free society.

        Your claim was that the current occupant of the White House has been subject to the worst invective from the opposition ever. Which, of course, is nonsense, so, as a follow-up, we now we get that Bush deserved it and Obama doesn’t.

        Which is nothing more than partisan hackery at its finest.

    • 0 avatar
      bomberpete

      In a perfect world, your question would be rhetorical. The Donald should have faded away 20 years ago after his first bankruptcy, but that stupid NBC show keeps him coming back like a bad case of herpes.

      As a result, the media is in on it too, reporting every stupid or outrageous thing this guy says. Supporting Romney just keeps the Trump carnival going a little longer.

      The Coiffed One from Boston hasn’t put a muzzle on this jerk — nor wanted to, I’d guess. Trump is perfect for doing dirty work that Romney can’t do — like appealing to white Americans’ distrust/dislike of black people.

      Ralph Gilles is my new hero.

      • 0 avatar
        Frank IBC

        86SN2001 wrote: “Thankfully, the man-child will be kicked out of the White House in less than a week.”

        “Man-child” is the new “boy”.

      • 0 avatar
        geeber

        I hate to break it to you, but if Obama loses the election, it won’t be because of white racists.

        (I know this is hard for you to believe, but every white person who isn’t an Obama supporter does not have a pressed white sheet in the closet, ready to whip out for the next neighborhood cross-burning.)

        It will be because the moderates who supported him in 2008 have deserted him or simply stayed home.

  • avatar
    -Cole-

    Let’s make no mistake, though: RealDT is the best account on twitter.

    Or was anyway

  • avatar
    Autobraz

    “Now, if I can find an auto exec willing to rebut a silly question from a journalist inquiring why their new product’s rear sway bar isn’t 2mm thicker…”

    I don’t get the reference, but I guess the core of the message is “an auto exec willing to rebut a silly question from a journalist”.

  • avatar
    APaGttH

    Let the feast of a thousand popcorns begin!

  • avatar
    brettc

    Donald is a grade-A douche, that’s for sure. I’m surprised the Chrysler guy responded with what he did.

    Wonder if Trump took Colbert up on his dipping proposal yet.

  • avatar
    Frank Galvin

    It could just be me, but it appears Sergio’s PR rules for dealing with blithering fools is punch back, twice as hard. Good for Ralph.

    • 0 avatar
      Volts On Fire

      Agreed. I’m one of the most anti-Obama, anti-GM/Fiatsler, anti-union a-holes on this forum… and I applauded Gilles’ response. Trump certainly isn’t doing my side any favors.

      • 0 avatar

        What do you think of the fact that what he said came from a Romney campaign ad that is still being aired? I’d say Romney is doing that side any favors.

      • 0 avatar
        Volts On Fire

        Have you listened to the Romney campaign ad? It’s very shrewdly worded… apparently so much so that it flew right over your head.

      • 0 avatar
        sunridge place

        ‘Have you listened to the Romney campaign ad? It’s very shrewdly worded… ‘

        Shrewd or deceptive? I guess it depends on your viewpoint.

        It is clear to any unbiased person with a brain that the intent of his ad is to imply that Jeep (after a government bailout) will be closing factories in the US and moving jobs to China. I’m shocked there wasn’t a visual of a tumbleweed going across the TV screen or a stock picture of homeless people lining up for soup during that shrewd wording…now that would have been shrewderer.

        Using half-truths to try to sway potential voters 30 seconds at a time is too common and it is used by both parties….I’m not taking sides here…just pointing out the truth.

      • 0 avatar
        Volts On Fire

        From Romney’s ad: Obama sold Chrysler “to Italians who are going to build Jeeps in China.”

        Nothing at all deceptive about that, unless you’re grasping at straws. The Italian owners of Fiatsler are going to build Jeeps in China. Nevermind that building them there makes more economic sense for the company; each Jeep built by the ChiComs is one that could have been built in Toledo, even though the latter was the ostensible goal behind the bailouts.

        (Personally, I’m not opposed to using deceitful means to influence inferior minds. I really SHOULD be a Dem; that’s the mindset behind the entire party, to tell people how they’re being screwed without using the words ‘it’s your fault.’)

      • 0 avatar
        sunridge place

        ‘each Jeep built by the ChiComs is one less that could have been built in Toledo’

        So, you think that Jeep could just build them in Ohio and sell them in China and be competitive given the tariffs that China places on imported vehicles? It cannot be done on any scale and you either know that and ignore it or need to educate yourself on why it can’t be done. I’m certainly not ‘grasping at straws’..the intent of the ad (with a Jeep driving through cornfields during that statement) is obvious.

        To your point on being deceitful…I agree with you. Its a business. The people doing these ads etc are free market business people.

        I have a good friend in this business. He (like me) lives in Texas. He’s Hispanic…he lives in El Paso. He has connections in Texas with some Bush people and also has connections to Obama people. He will work for anyone that pays him.

        He owns his own political consulting/marketing business with multiple partners and employees and is making a killing selling his services and expertise at Hispanic outreach in states like North Carolina, Colorado, Iowa, etc…states that have growing Hispanic populations and that are battleground areas. During non-national election cycles, he pays the bills with local issues in El Paso…but this year he’s blowing up.

        Last time I saw him last spring, he was going on and on about some issue he really believed in and I basically called him out and said that he would ‘believe’ in anything if someone cut him a check…he smiled and agreed. Its a game…the people creating these messages are no different from someone coming up with a campaign to sell Coca-Cola.

        The interesting thing on this Romney ad is whether it will backfire given that its running in Ohio and has the risk of turning away people who see through the deception of this ad in spite of the ‘truth’ of that one statement.

      • 0 avatar
        Volts On Fire

        “So, you think that Jeep could just build them in Ohio and sell them in China and be competitive given the tariffs that China places on imported vehicles?”

        No, “I” do not think that. But I’m all for influencing people to believe otherwise if it helps my guy win, as I stated earlier. What was said in Romney’s ad remains technically correct, which means it is not dishonest or deceptive.

      • 0 avatar
        sunridge place

        Agree…just don’t call out people and say they are ‘grasping at straws’ when they point out obvious facts.

        I’m generally apolitical. My life (and the life of most people on here) won’t change at all regardless of who is elected.

        I’m sorry that you don’t realize that.

      • 0 avatar
        LuciferV8

        “Trump certainly isn’t doing my side any favors.”

        That is precisely the point. Read my other comment below.

    • 0 avatar
      bomberpete

      The success of Rush Limbaugh proves that smash-mouth works. If only Air America weren’t so dreadful.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    This is the problem when you try to mix unverified facts with rhetoric. Unless there are secret stipulations to the Chrysler deal, Washington is completely out of the loop on Chrysler’s decisions since they gave it to Fiat, and as much as Barry is a jack*** (yay a pun!) I seriously doubt he or anyone else in the White House cares where Jeeps are being built.

  • avatar
    philadlj

    It would have been more diplomatic to say “You’re misinformed”, but I have a feeling Trump knows the truth: that it’s indeed possible to make Jeeps in America AND China at the same time. Kind of the way Rahzel can sing and beatbox simultaneously. Difficult, but not impossible.

  • avatar
    billfrombuckhead

    Actually Obama is very pro US auto industry. He personally owned a Grand Cherokee and a 300. Maybe it’s the UAW’s longtime support of the Civil Rights movement when almost no on else did or maybe it’s his “Americaness” to like such American classics. BTW, MLK’s “I have a Dream” speech was given a Detroit’s Cobo hall at a joint UAW/NAACP rally before it was given in Washington DC.

    • 0 avatar
      geeber

      That’s wonderful, but if you think that is going to encourage people to buy a mediocre Chrysler 200, or a little less mediocre Malibu, instead of a far superior Accord, you’re as delusional as Donald Trump. That horse left the barn years ago…

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Depends on the price point and engine, 2013 Accord V6 EX-L msrps at 30,800 on Honda’s website, 200 V6 Limited is currently $22,680 in this region (msrp of 24 something). 200 V6 is the better value for the money IMO (even with Chrysler known build ‘quality’), if the price points were closer I could justify the Accord. Heck with the Sebring, err 200, you could prob talk them down a little more, is Honda coming down?

        Now if were talking 4-cyl, base 200 msrp is around 18,900, Accord LX is 21,600, Malibu 22,390 (which is insane, although GM will put cash on the hood, Honda won’t).

      • 0 avatar
        gtemnykh

        28days, Having ridden in and/or driven all three cars you mention (all 4cyl basic models), I can honestly say the Accord and malibu are light years ahead of the 200. The 200 may have a pseudo-’nice’ dash now (in other words just slightly better than abysmal), but the transmission clunks into Drive, and the engine is agricultural sounding. I wouldn’t buy a new one even for $14,000. Malibu had a cramped cabin but drives very solid and secure, muted engine, no wind noise to speak of. Interior is a step up from the 200 for sure, but there are still many cheap bits. The accord still has a bit of that old Honda magic in its DNA, albeit extremely diluted. Zippy sewing machine smooth engine, airy cabin, simple and not flashy instrument cluster. A few cheap/hard plastic pieces on touch points, but I’d still rate the interior best of the bunch, especially in terms of roominess.

        Overall the accord’s price premium is still justified, depending on one’s priorities when compared to the Malibu, but man the 200 is left for dead by just about any other car I can think of.

      • 0 avatar
        geeber

        You can get a four-cylinder Accord EX that is considerably less expensive than the top-of-the-line V-6 model. And it’s still a better car in every way than a Malibu or a 200, and worth every extra penny.

      • 0 avatar
        danio3834

        I agree that the 4 banger 200 leaves a lot to be desired, but the 3.6L is a bargain priced hot rod and would absolutely encourage anyone looking for a good deal on a midsize sedan to look at one alongside an Accord.

    • 0 avatar
      Freddie

      The 300 is Imported From Canada

    • 0 avatar
      nickoo

      What Obama has done so far in his Presidency, in the face of the most political opposition since the civil war from the other party (NPR ran a story on that), has been nothing short of amazing. He’s the best President since at least Kennedy and if he wins a second term, he’ll go down in history as such. The only thing the right wing (politicians and pundits, not referring to anyone else here) has on him is complaining about him not being able to fix the things they broke fast enough. They are pathetic children and some of them, such as West, Bachmann, et. al. are a damning embarrassment of the public who elected them.

      I, a former conservative and former republican, am extremely proud to have the chance to vote for the man who saved the US auto industry, the man who risked his Presidency by standing up for everyday Americans and everyday American workers as opposed to the former CEO of Bain Capitol, who we all know what he did…

      • 0 avatar
        N8iveVA

        Except for the “saved the US auto industry” part (GWB started the bailouts, BHO continued and took them a step further) I agree with you completely. If you apply facts to all of the Romney retoric, you’ll find most of em are lies.

  • avatar
    redseca2

    There is probably some extremely tiny kernel of truth – like the sales brochures are printed in China because Italy was too expensive.

    • 0 avatar
      corntrollio

      The “tiny kernel” was that Jeep may produce some China-bound Jeeps in China, just like many other automakers already do, although it may not. Generally speaking, Jeep wants to sell more cars in China.

      Some idiots misread this and said Jeep was moving all production to China, and then Romney ran with it. Did you see the earlier post?

      http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/10/no-jeep-is-not-shifting-production-from-toledo-to-china/

      • 0 avatar
        danio3834

        To be fair, I saw the Romney ad, and as Volt said, they simply said Jeep would be producing vehicles in China. They went on to insinuate that Romeny would change regulations to allow car companies to more competitively produce vehicles in the US.

        It could be misleading to people who don’t know any better. But I have yet to see a 30 second political ad from any party that isn’t the least bit misleading.

  • avatar
    DC Bruce

    Isn’t there some proverb about what happens when you wrestle with a pig? You get dirty, or you stink or something like that.

    I can understand Mr. Gilles’ frustration; but feeding the beast known as The Donald is best avoided.

  • avatar
    JK43123

    Uh, Bush bailed out the auto industry.

    John

    • 0 avatar
      icemilkcoffee

      Not really. Bush allowed the carmakers to linger a few more months, until Obama came in and provided the financing that allowed them to go through bankruptcy re-organizations and re-emerge as viable companies.

      One could make the hindsight argument that the pre-bankruptcy Bush bailout, was money down the toilet. It was a mistake in hindsight. But relative to the general level of failure of the Bush presidency, the pre-bankruptcy bailout was probably one of the better executed policies.

  • avatar
    NormSV650

    Obummer!

    How much was his bet to Obama again?

  • avatar
    corntrollio

    Donald Trump has always been douchebag looking for press coverage, and this is no different. It’s good to see someone high profile calling him on his BS.

    Whenever anyone tries to show that the Donald is not nearly as rich as he claims to be or that his businesses aren’t doing as well as he claims, he threatens to sue them to oblivion. He hides his lack of wealth with conspicuous consumption, but the reality is that his “empire” is highly leveraged, and that his net worth is far lower than anyone thinks it is. That’s why so many of his businesses have gone bust as many times as they have.

    Donald Trump is good at marketing the Donald brand with the TV show and the other stuff, but he’s not particularly good at business. The former manages to overshadow the latter.

  • avatar
    ranwhenparked

    Donald Trump is a publicity whore and everyone knows it. I highly doubt he has any real convictions, beliefs, or opinions of any kind beyond the strongly held axiom that he himself is #1. He’ll attach himself to whatever cause or story will get him exposure at the time, milk it for what it’s worth, and move on to the next thing.

    That said, although what Ralph Gilles said is absolutely 100% correct, I really hope he doesn’t receive any negative consequences for the language. He’s justifiably outraged, but we live in an ultra PC world and you never know how the powers that be will take things like this.

    • 0 avatar
      bomberpete

      I doubt that the design heads of Ford or GM would be as bold as Gilles. Chrysler as the American subsidiary of Fiat is not publicly traded, which gives him some liberties. I’d say working for Sergio Marchionne gives him some more.

      Good for Gilles. Sure, a little immature, but any day The Donald is put in his place is a good day. I’m tired of that self-aggrandizing jerk. He can’t even put together the $5 million he keeps taunting Obama with.

  • avatar

    I understand why Donald Trump is doing this, he’s a Republican and thinks the current POTUS sucks and wants his guy Romney to win, I get it.
    So he lies to advance his cause, along with Fox “News”, and yes even Democrats and their allies lie as well to make the other look bad.
    I get that as well.
    What I don’t understand is this nutty far right crap that he’s hitched his wagon to,specifically the “birther” thing , the demand for Obama’s college records, he’s looking like a GD idiot.
    Obviously bad publicity is better then no publicity but this can’t help in the long run.

    • 0 avatar
      ranwhenparked

      He’s been a Republican for like, 2 years, via the Democratic Party via the Reform Party via the Democrats again. He goes wherever he thinks the most media attention will be at the time.

      I doubt he has any real convictions, but if you had to try to put a label on him, I’d say he comes closest to populism, which is to say, not at all in agreement with the economic conservatism of most mainstream Republicans.

  • avatar
    Freddie

    There is a legitimate point to make that the majority of GM employees are outside the US, so if you say the bailout saved GM, then the majority of GM jobs saved at US expense were not American jobs. Yes, Canada kicked in a few billion, but nothing from China, South Korea, Mexico, Brazil, Germany (maybe Germany did something for Opel?).

    Chrysler has less of an international footprint, mainly Canada and Mexico, but I don’t think Mexico contributed any bailout money.

    • 0 avatar
      silverkris

      While GM does have considerable operations outside North America, don’t forget that there are many, many suppliers serving GM and other motor vehicle manufacturers in North America that were at risk if GM got liquidated. That was a key point for the US government to step in. That’s also why Toyota and Ford didn’t want GM to die and take down their North American suppliers either.

  • avatar
    daviel

    I’d like to see Trump’s college transcript. He long ago violated his intellectual probation and has defaulted to moron. Related question what’s that thing on his head?

  • avatar
    Maintainer

    The only thing to come of this is that the DT “Brand” got some free exposure. The guy doesn’t care if he gets good or bad press as long as someone out there is uttering the name Trump.

  • avatar
    ajla

    But seriously…

    WHY AREN’T THE SWAY BARS BIGGER!?!?

  • avatar
    Dave M.

    Nickoo -

    Here here. As someone who voted for Bush twice (I’m a Democrat, but always vote for the best candidate at the time), I voted for the best man in ’08, and will give him my vote to continue the clean up he inherited.

    I look forward to the upcoming republican cleansing. The party has been hijacked by some real nutjobs. I miss the party of Lowell Weicker, Nelson Rockefeller, and Gerald Ford.

    • 0 avatar
      silverkris

      It’s probably more likely that in the event of a Romney defeat in the election, the Republicans aren’t going to clean house ideologically, but will continue being more extreme by saying that Romney wasn’t conservative enough. They will continue their hardline stance towards the Democrats — resulting in continued gridlock.

    • 0 avatar
      nrd515

      That’s why it’s almost impossible for me to even think about voting for any republicans anymore, with the exception of a few “old” republicans on the local level, who go back to the time before the kooks (There’s no better word to describe them)took over. There are insane claims and comments by republican candidates and incumbents coming on almost a daily basis! I used to vote back and forth across parties, but not any more. I hope there is a “cleansing”, but I don’t think it’s going to happen for another 4 years or so. I miss the sane republican party of 30 or so years ago.

      • 0 avatar
        car_guy2010

        I too, remember when there were moderate Republicans. There still are but they’re few and far in-between.

        The local GOP where I live has allowed millionaires to form super PACs in the name of “restoring balance” when they really want to stack the senate and legislature in their favor so they can bring the state back to the stone age.

        Go figure. PACs on both sides should be banned, period! That’s not Democracy.

    • 0 avatar
      geeber

      Lowell Weicker? He was the idiot who had a meltdown when Connecticut took the heinous step of…repealing its ban on radar detectors in 1992.

      Nanny-state morons are useless regardless of which party letter comes after their name.

  • avatar
    ajla

    Trump’s trolling ability puts everyone on 4chan and Reddit to shame.

    All this needs is a “u mad bro?” reply to Gilles.

  • avatar
    GoFaster58

    And now, Mr. Giles, about those statements from your boss, Sergio, on moving some Chrysler and Jeep production to Italy…….So in effect, Romney and Trump are half right.

    • 0 avatar
      billfrombuckhead

      Chrysler is absolutely not moving production from the USA just adding capacity worldwide especially in China. FIAT has done a good job selling American built Chrysler products around the world and they’re just getting revved up.

    • 0 avatar
      ranwhenparked

      Chrysler’s North American plants are running at maximum capacity.

      The company responded to to decades of declining sales and market share by closing facility after facility, and now that sales are actually rebounding, they don’t have the capacity to fully keep up with demand.

      Fiat hasn’t said anything about shutting or downsizing any more US plants, but they have suggested that some models (especially those built on shared platforms) could be built in Italy to take advantage of excess capacity there. Italy has room for more production, the US, Canada, and Mexico really don’t right now.

  • avatar
    Robert.Walter

    Are we even sure that these accts are the real McCoy?

    Normally, for prominent folks, twitter will put a little blue seal next to the twitter handle which signifys that the acct is not bogus; neither of these accts has the blue thingie, so it could be we are being played …

  • avatar
    FJ60LandCruiser

    I have no doubt that Chrysler’s new Italian overlords will plunder the company for whatever it’s worth after peddling a few rebadged Euro-spec cars and downsizing iconic brands like Jeep into oblivion.

    When they are done, they’ll leave the company to flap in the breeze, waiting for the next president hoping to pander to the union vote.

    Marchionne has no vision for Chrysler. I don’t think FIAT and Alfa have enough cars to rebadge and peddle as new American icons. He hoped this venture would mean that eventually the FIAT brand would make it back to American shores and become the player it is in Europe, not hiding in drag behind sheetmetal and plastic like the Dart.

    It’s a shocking lack of corporate vision and leadership that no amount of “Imported from Detroit” ads can cover up that cars like the 200 are just a re-re-re-refried Sebring.

    I’m glad that my tax dollars went into the sewer so that some foreign company could try to take more of the American market share…

    • 0 avatar
      billfrombuckhead

      There’s a new vastly improved Chrysler 40 mpg midsize on the way with a ZF 9 speed automatic, a upgraded 3.2L Pentastar V6 and sharing an Alfa Romeo platform. There’s a rendering of it on Allpar. I’m sure it will lead the midsize class for awhile since it’s coming last to the party since Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Ford and GM have already come out with new cars and will be set for a 3 years or so.

      Ralph will get the last laugh there as well.

  • avatar
    jimmyy

    I would hope all Detroit automakers start building product in China or any other low labor cost country. This would allow Detroit to compete. The saved money on unskilled labor could be used to hire more engineers and designers, and that would improve the products greatly and be able to offer them at a lower price point.

    Paying unskilled and uneducated union workers excessive wages is so 1950s, and is killing our auto industry.

    • 0 avatar
      car_guy2010

      Unskilled and uneducated?

      What planet did you come from?

    • 0 avatar
      Moparman426W

      People that put down factory workers and the like are normally the type that wouldn’t be able to handle that type of job. Living in Northeast Ohio I have toured plants of the big three and seen some of the “uneducated and unskilled” workers doing their jobs, I’d like to see you take a crack at it. I’ve been a roofer for over 30 years, anyone who calls me unskilled and uneducated is more than welcome to come and work alongside of me and we’ll see how they hold up.

      • 0 avatar
        Volts On Fire

        Being proficient at repetitive physical labor does not make you “skilled,” and it certainly doesn’t mean you’re educated. Nor should it allow you to earn grossly inflated wages relative to your competitors.

        We have a very vocal underclass in our country that really needs to understand their place.

    • 0 avatar
      el scotto

      I’d much rather have an “unskilled and uneducated” factory worker spending money and paying their mortgage in my town than a liberal arts educated barista telling us how clever and smart they are.

  • avatar
    car_guy2010

    For those that say that bottom feeders exist on “both sides”, you’re sadly mistaken here.

    The righties have taken the cake the past 4 years with their birther nonsense.

    There’s been plenty of nasty, hateful comments that go beyond “Nobama”.

    In contrast, lefties like I call it as it is and if it means trashing Mitt Romney ’til the cows come home, it will be done!

    • 0 avatar
      jeoff

      Car_guy2010–funniest post yet!!!

      “There’s been plenty of nasty, hateful comments that go beyond “Nobama”.

      In contrast, lefties like I call it as it is and if it means trashing Mitt Romney ’til the cows come home, it will be done!”

      (I hope you were trying to be ironic).

  • avatar
    vcficus

    As an independent voter with vague automotive historical leanings I really wish the headlines were more accurate:

    “Jeep RESTARTING production in China after a several year hiatus!!!”

    AMC started making them there (the old XJ Cherokee with some mods) as a JV in the 80′s, Chrysler continued and then kept continuing under Daimler when it was killed for intellectual property concerns and general lack of German interest. AMC/Chrysler were the first there before ANYBODY else from the US in the last 40 years.

    You know, Jeeps are also assembled via kits in VENEZUALA for Pete’s sake…

    The truth can only set you free if you want to get out of prison…

  • avatar
    LuciferV8

    Ask yourself, why is a financially savvy and incredibly shrewd self promoter with tons of Hollywood connections and the ability to easily verify any assertion making a variety of wildly unsubstantiated and even easily debunked claims?

    Trump knows damn well what he is saying can be picked apart. The reason he is saying it is the same reason every “heel” in pro-wrestling acts so despicably in the ring – it’s an act, and the pay is damn good.

    That $5 million “bet” may seem like a lot to you and me, but in a campaign where billions have been spent, that money is pocket change.

    Trump isn’t going to be thrown out of Hollywood any more than the Undertaker is going to be thrown out of the WWE.

    He is essentially setting up his friends in the current administration for a phenomenal publicity and P.R. payday.

    TL:DR version – Trump’s whole schtick here is nothing more than a well-funded version of the heavily publicized “tea party sorority girl” -
    http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2012/10/internet_fail_the_truth_about.html

    and the numerous “racists” that seem to be deployed at every sizable conservative event:
    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/10/13/Getty-Image-Romney-Rally

    This sort of thing is a standard political practice nowadays, and is used in a variety of situations, one shining example of which are the violence-prone “anarchists” that seem to find their way into every peaceful protest that someone wants shut down.

    Go ahead and call me a tinfoil hatter if it makes you feel better, but the facts and logic speak for themselves.

  • avatar
    Moparman426W

    Geeber, I think you need to get out and learn about cars instead of wasting your time with stuff like consumer reports and surveys. For starters a formula 1 engine has nothing in common with a production honda engine.
    As far as racing goes Chrysler was involved in everything from bracket racing all the way up to top fuel dragsters before honda even existed, and this was done using production chrysler engines.
    Only an armchair car lover could think that a honda engine would be better than a hemi, and you don’t want to get me started about honda automatic transmissions, which have been junk for the past 10-12 years. Give me a honda and let me drive it half as hard as I did some of my old mopars and I guarantee you that I will destroy it in short order.

    • 0 avatar
      geeber

      Moparman426W: Geeber, I think you need to get out and learn about cars instead of wasting your time with stuff like consumer reports and surveys.

      I regularly talk to independent mechanics and auto auction personnel. They all tell me the same thing – Hondas are superior to any Chrysler product.

      Which mirrors what happens in the real world among friends and relatives who have owned these respective brands.

      Like it or not, the survey results for Consumer Reports are accurate.

      Moparman426W: For starters a formula 1 engine has nothing in common with a production honda engine.

      Honda learned a lot from Formula 1 racing which it has applied to production engines.

      Moparman426W: As far as racing goes Chrysler was involved in everything from bracket racing all the way up to top fuel dragsters before honda even existed, and this was done using production chrysler engines.

      Chrysler’s racing glory days were in the 1950s through early 1970s. They have little, if any, bearing on what you can get in the showroom today, unless I can walk into may friendly Dodge-Chrysler-Jeep dealer today and order a brand-new 1967 Satellite or Coronet with a 426 Hemi or 440 V-8.

      I love seeing old Mopars (and Fords and GM products and AMCs and Studebakers) at car shows. But they aren’t relevant to what people buy today, nor do they offer what my family needs in a car.

      Moparman426W: Only an armchair car lover could think that a honda engine would be better than a hemi, and you don’t want to get me started about honda automatic transmissions, which have been junk for the past 10-12 years.

      Is the Hemi a good engine? Sure. Is it better than a Honda four-cylinder? Not when considering the applications for which each engine was designed.

      The real problem for Chrysler is that it has not yet produced a four-cylinder or a V-6 as good as those offered by Honda or Acura. Like it or not, V-8s are a sideshow these days in the passenger car market.

      Honda’s automatic transmissions were troublesome from 1999-2004. You’re about eight years behind the times. And do we want to talk about the record of Chrysler with automatic transmissions? The days of the tough old Torqueflite are long gone.

      Moparman426W: Give me a honda and let me drive it half as hard as I did some of my old mopars and I guarantee you that I will destroy it in short order.

      In the real world, plenty of people drive Hondas and Mopars very hard – and with minimal maintenance – and the Hondas fare better.

  • avatar
    Moparman426W

    Geeber, just keep reading consumer reports and taking your car to the shop every time it needs fixed.

    • 0 avatar
      geeber

      I hate to disappoint you, Moparman, but I’m not taking either our Honda or our Ford to the shop on a regular basis for problems.

      I have last five annual auto issues of the magazine, and the results match very closely with our experiences with our 2003 Honda Accord EX (185,000 miles) and 2005 Ford Focus SE (154,000 miles).

  • avatar
    Moparman426W

    My point was not how often you may take your car to the shop, but that if something were to go wrong you would have to because you don’t know a carburetor from a door handle. But you could probably tell me which auto plant was the first to have vending machines.

    • 0 avatar
      geeber

      You don’t have to be a mechanic to know which vehicles are more more reliable or better engineered. So your point is irrelevant. It helps to stay on topic.

      • 0 avatar
        danio3834

        I’ve had a LOT of vehicles pass through my hands including vehicles for just about every major marque. I’ve had some very unreliable Hondas, and some very reliable Chryslers…and vice versa.

        It’s impossible to accurately paint with such a wide brush.

      • 0 avatar
        geeber

        Which is why we have surveys to gather DATA instead of relying on anecdotal evidence.

      • 0 avatar
        danio3834

        You might find them useful.

        Someone like me whose “anecdotal” personal experience sometimes proves otherwise finds publications like CR useless.

        If that works for you, fine. I’ll keep relying on my years of “anecdotal” experience of inside corporate industry experience, mechanical experience and real world ownership to get me by. And we’ll leave it at that.

      • 0 avatar
        geeber

        But then why does virtually every mechanic I talk to tell me that Honda and Toyota really are the most reliable vehicles out there?

        And if you have corporate insider experience, please share it with us. Those are always interesting to read. Among the domestic, for example, which is the most reliable? I’m curious to hear your perspective.

  • avatar
    Moparman426W

    Right.

  • avatar
    Moparman426W

    And that’s what sets us car guys apart from the general public. Say for example a certain vehicle is notorious for eating stabilizer links at around 50k miles. They cost around 10-15 bucks apiece for most vehicles and take about 5 minutes per side to install. A car guy would buy the links and install them himself. If someone asks him about the service of his car he would say something along the lines of “it’s been a good car, only thing I’ve done to it is replace the stabilizer links.”
    The general public is not like that, though. They would have to take it to a shop and most likely leave it for a day and get charged a couple hundred bucks for labor and ripped off for the price of the links. Then they will complain and fill out their survey, telling about how the car cost them money and spent a day in the shop.

    • 0 avatar
      geeber

      In other words, the car guy overlooks problems because he can repair them himself, but the non-car guy is more likely to provide an accurate snapshot of the vehicle’s service record because he experienced the inconvenience of taking it a shop and paying for the repair.

      Your post isn’t making the point that you think it is, Moparman426W.

      The overwhemling majority of people are not mechanics, so any company that builds a vehicle with the expectation that owners will overlook a problem because they can repair it themselves is headed for bankruptcy.


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