By on October 23, 2009

So, after years of toil, you’ve arrived – a six figure salary, 80 hour workweeks, and Blackberry-enhanced vacations. But it’s not all toil at the executive level – you get to dump the Accord, and drop 50 or 60 large on a first-class luxury sedan.

But we’re not talking about yesterday’s luxury sedans, which handled like the Exxon Valdez – we’re talking about high-performance sedans that can pin you back in your seat, run like a sports car in the corners, coddle you in sybaritic comfort, and dazzle your friends with their high-tech toys.

Mercedes-Benz invented this market segment with the E-class, and BMW followed suit with the 5-series; these German warriors are still the top sellers in this class, so they’re represented here, respectively, by the all-new E350 and 535xi. From down the road in Ingolstadt comes the Audi A6, newly invigorated for 2009 with a supercharged engine.

But Deutschland isn’t the only source of dream sedans – England has a long tradition of making sumptuous sedans with scoot, and the sexy new Jaguar XF carries on a classy tradition, without the Camelot-era styling. Japan got into the game quite a while ago, bringing the concept of value to the luxury sport sedan segment. That tradition is represented here by the Lexus GS350 and Infiniti M35. In theory, the Volvo S80 and Acura RL could have been invited, but frankly, embarrassment is not something you dole out lightly.

So which one of our six success-mobiles fits the bill best? Each day this week we’ll roll out another result, working towards our test winner on Friday.

Second Place: Audi A6 3.0T

Third Place: Jaguar XF

Fourth Place: Lexus GS350

Fifth Place: Mercedes-Benz E350

Sixth Place: Infiniti M35x

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77 Comments on “Import Sport Sedan Comparison Test: An Introduction...”


  • avatar
    hurls

    AWD Bimmer…

    your choice or BMWNA PR’s?

  • avatar

    Infiniti is already showing the next-gen M, and stylistically at least it’s a major step up.

    No Cadillac CTS? The STS might be a more direct competitor, but it’s less competitive, and also not here.

  • avatar
    Austin Greene

    What, no Hyundai Genesis?

  • avatar
    dswilly

    As far as these cars being luxury cars and handling well I think BMW defined the “sport sedan” class when mercedes still making big heavy German cars that were a European alternative to Caddies and Lincons

  • avatar
    enderw88

    @Michael Karesh: “Import” Sedans…So CTS is out until China buys GM.

  • avatar
    PeregrineFalcon

    @Austin Greene “What, no Hyundai Genesis?”

    Seconding this. Not sure if it’s lacking in the “Sport” or the “Snobbery” category, but where’s the little Korean upstart here for the guys who made their money by saving it?

  • avatar
    Autosavant

    “Infiniti is already showing the next-gen M, and stylistically at least it’s a major step up.”

    Recent Infinities have god-awful, flaky exterior styling, the exaxct opoosite of “FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION”.

    I am not impressed with any of the Lexus GS styles, they neither project an image of power or strength and safety.

    Unfortunately both BMW under bangle and Mercedes after Bruno Sacco lost their way styling-wise. Which explains why the understated Audis are so successful currently.

  • avatar
    SpikedLemon

    I’d love to see where the Hyundai Genesis fits next to the Lexus and Infinity.

  • avatar
    Robstar

    Silly me.

    I thought 80 hour workweeks & 6 figure salaries helped you put down 20% on a house…..

    I’ll stick with my STi at just over $30k out the door.

  • avatar
    slateslate

    ****I’d love to see where the Hyundai Genesis fits next to the Lexus and Infinity****

    Since this is the truth about cars I’d like to know how much is pissed away when you buy the right name.

    Unfortunately though Hyundai technically makes a great lux. car, it will be decades (or perhaps never) when Hyundai/Korea has the same visceral/emotional/impress-your-inlaws response as a Merc/BMW/Jag.

  • avatar
    ajla

    I’ll be rooting for the XF.

  • avatar
    Robstar

    My subaru should impress the in-laws. I don’t think they’ve ever seen one in person (Brazil), let alone an STi. I guess that doesn’t apply to most people with in-laws in the US.

    With that being said, There are so many Mercedes around here I don’t know if it would impress US in-laws either.

  • avatar

    I see the “import,” but question the logic of comparing only imports.

    Also agree that the Genesis belongs here.

    But maybe these cars were selected by one of the manufacturers? No manufacturer is going to include the Genesis in a ride-and-drive.

  • avatar
    Autosavant

    “Also agree that the Genesis belongs here.”

    I assume you mean the Genesis SEDAN and not its fraudulently named so-called “Genesis” coupe that tries to capitalize on the good press the sedan has received.

    Even the V8 genesis sedan, much less the 6, does not belong here. The Genesis is a great VALUE and offers some interior luxury and power, but ZERO refinement, which is really what makes the BMWs, Audis and Mercs stand out.

    If you include the Genesis Sedan, all kinds of others will want to be included too, from the Chrysler 300 Hemi to the Taurus and Lincoln MKS Ecoboost, the Pontiac G8, and maybe a supercharged Buick or two.

  • avatar
    SherbornSean

    I would have like to have seen the Lincoln Ecoboost MKS as well. Not because I think it would win, but to understand where specifically the gap between it and the winner lies.

  • avatar
    Autosavant

    Frankly, I would buy the Accord Sedan v6 with far more confidence than the Genesis Sedan v6. And probably save quite a bundle. For those with less sporty preferences, get an Avalon. Plenty powerful and bulletproof reliable.

  • avatar
    stuki

    Sad to see neither a Saab nor a Volvo is included. It’s an “import sedan” comparison after all, not a “luxury import sedan” one. Not many years ago, the Swedes would at least be included in this kind of tests, even if they, as front drivers if for no other reason, usually got it handed to them.

  • avatar
    jmo

    I thought 80 hour workweeks & 6 figure salaries helped you put down 20% on a house…..

    I had a friend who put 100k down on a house and then had to relocate for his job – the whole 100k was lost. If he had bought a S-class or 7 series he’d at least still have a car that was worth at least something.

  • avatar
    highrpm

    It’s sad, really, when a bunch of $80k cars only gets a yawn from me. None of these vehicles are all that desirable, really, but they are expensive.

    The positive thing about the German sedans is that they depreciate like mad. I can see the future of the E350 in three years, and it says $20k on the window sticker…

  • avatar
    Autosavant

    Saab and Volvo are near-luxury, but since they both were once owned by domestics and are near death, why bother to include them

    ANd the test should be called Luxury Import sedans, not even near-Luxury. otherwise we would have to include the Avalon, the ES350, the Accord and there is no end in sight.

  • avatar
    Robstar

    jmo> was he foreclosed? He should have been able to sell it. Either that or get another job….he must be paid alot to just “give up” 100k on the house. There are a lot of details missing from your post.

  • avatar
    jmo

    Rob,

    He bought the place for 480k then got transferred he could only get 375k. He couldn’t afford to carry two mortgages. He does make good money but in this economy he doubted he would be able to find a job in a timely manner if he didn’t take the transfer.

    He should have been able to sell it.

    In his case he did sell it just for far less than he paid. While others are doing short sales or brining money to the closing – he just had to write off his downpayment.

    Again, if he had bought a really nice car instead it would have much more sense than buying a home.

  • avatar
    twotone

    A gently used MB E63, silver, panorama roof for about $45k thank you very much.

    Twotone

  • avatar
    wmba

    The title of this is “Import Sport Sedan”. So the Hyundai has no business here, nor the Avalon, nor an Accord V6. Been in all of them, and sport was the last thing they reminded me of. Yawn….

    On the other hand, the title doesn’t mention “Luxury” either, so there at least a half dozen other contenders.

    Time to be a bit more careful with the headline title, methinks.

  • avatar
    Autosavant

    “So the Hyundai has no business here, nor the Avalon, nor an Accord V6.”

    I agree with excluding the avalon and the huyndai, but the Accord v6 is far sportier than the (non-AMG) E class Mercedes will ever be.

    And Accords were always far sportier and far better handlers than their main rivals Toyotas. I did not mention the Camry for that reason.

    I owned a 5-sp 90 Accord coupe for more than 14 years, and I know its virtues.

  • avatar
    Robstar

    jmo> Sounds like that is a pretty rare case — he overpaid in a bad market.

  • avatar
    DearS

    I’m liking this comparison. I’ve only driven an A6 though (not my favorite car). I do wish I were driving them all.

  • avatar
    jmo

    he overpaid in a bad market.

    Isn’t that what basically caused the economic crisis?

  • avatar
    BMWnut

    Thanks for this test. My E39 5-series is getting on in years and I have no idea what to replace it with. Please feel free to comment on the shape you think these autobahn stormers will be in after a few years, i.e. what life will be like for the second owner. I can’t help but wonder how long the wiring for gizmos like iDrive or brake-by-wire will stay functional.

  • avatar
    carsinamerica

    Rather than argue about what cars should be included, I want to know what happened to the ones that are. If there are six competitors (Audi A6, BMW 5-Series, Infiniti M, Jaguar XF, Lexus GS, and Mercedes-Benz E-Class), why did we start with fifth place? If there was a tie, why doesn’t it say “tied for fifth”, and if the articles will count down one per day until Friday, where would the second fifth-place finisher show up?

  • avatar
    Geotpf

    Robstar :
    October 19th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

    jmo> Sounds like that is a pretty rare case — he overpaid in a bad market.

    Just like every single person who bought a house in California, Florida, Nevada, or Arizona between 2004 and 2007. Not all that rare.

    Example: I personally purchased a foreclosed house for $150k in Riverside, CA this May. The last guy paid $400k in Dec. 2005.

  • avatar
    ritchie628

    I’m with carsinamerica. I also couldn’t help but notice there are only five cars pictured. Don’t know which one is missing though. I recognize the Merc, BMW and Audi, but beyond that no clue. What can I say? To me, luxury is a Neon with Power Locks and AC.

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    hurls :
    October 19th, 2009 at 12:10 pm

    AWD Bimmer…

    your choice or BMWNA PR’s?

    Good point, and one I should clarify. I live in Denver, and you simply can’t find RWD versions of these cars.

    The exception, of course, is the Jaguar, which is not available in AWD.

    Hope that clarifies things. Thanks for the question.

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    Michael Karesh :
    October 19th, 2009 at 12:12 pm

    Infiniti is already showing the next-gen M, and stylistically at least it’s a major step up.

    No Cadillac CTS? The STS might be a more direct competitor, but it’s less competitive, and also not here.

    Michael –

    Again, good point. The M isn’t going to be available for a few months.

    As far as the STS is concerned…frankly, I drove it, and it just wasn’t up to snuff in this group. It suffers from dead steering, and no-joy handling. I excluded the Acura and Volvo for the same reasons. Hopefully Caddy is putting the same folks who rebooted the CTS on a redesign for the STS – the basics are there.

    I was tempted to include the CTS, since it splits the difference size-wise between entry-lux cars like the BMW 3-series and the ones in this test, but after a lot of reflection, I came to the conclusion that it truly plays in the compact sports sedan segment, not this one.

    Look for a test of the CTS coming up, though… :)

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    Austin Greene :
    October 19th, 2009 at 12:18 pm

    What, no Hyundai Genesis?

    Nope. Nice piece, but I doubt anyone who’s considering a $60,000 BMW will really cross shop Hyundai. Part of the rationale for buying a car like this is prestige – whether that’s right or wrong, smart or stupid is a good question – and Hyundai has no cred in this regard.

    And while it has the basics to compete in this class, it definitely lacks the handling finesse you expect of a car in this group.

    Maybe a Genesis / Taurus SHO / Chrysler 300C test in the future?

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    SherbornSean :
    October 19th, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    I would have like to have seen the Lincoln Ecoboost MKS as well.

    So would I, but there wasn’t one available to test when I wrote this.

  • avatar
    Bridge2far

    ‘I’d love to see where the Hyundai Genesis fits next to the Lexus and Infinity.”
    Why in the world would they include a Hyunda? Say that to yourself- Hyundai. You know, crappy cheap fall-apart in 5 yr Hyundai!

  • avatar
    bunkie

    “As far as the STS is concerned…frankly, I drove it, and it just wasn’t up to snuff in this group. It suffers from dead steering, and no-joy handling.”

    This is a case where the specific options make a difference. I’ll bet you drove a V6 version. The V8 performance luxury package brings the magnetic ride control shocks which transform the handling. IMHO, equipped like this the STS is a much better car. There’s no appreciable body roll and it’s a lot of fun on back roads.

  • avatar
    CommanderFish

    As far as entry-lux brands go, the Saab 9-5 would have been interesting to include if you could have somehow gotten the ’10 model, otherwise it would have just gotten its ass kicked.

    Sure, I would have liked to see an MKS, STS (V8), S80, and the TL just for comparison’s sake, but that would have also almost doubled the testing field!

  • avatar
    zanenats

    regarding the sts, it is the worst thought out car in its class.
    the glovebox is usless and tiny. thanks to the airbag it is too low to see into and doesnt even fit the owners manual. the transmission is in the wrong place/too large and there is no leg room for the front passanger, and its way to expensive for what it is. i really dont know what they were thinking when they designed the interior.

  • avatar
    jkross22

    I’m a Hyundai Genesis fan, but it doesn’t belong in this test. The reason: price.

    I cross shopped the Genesis with CPO BMW’s for this reason. I doubt I’m the only one.

    BMWnut:

    I’ve got an e39 as well, and am considering an e38 7 series for fitting car seats and clients in the back as well as the lack of toys I don’t want that you articulated (although the 7 has other regular maintenance issues). Not so concerned about drive by wire, but all the other electrical doodads that do nothing but distract from enjoying the car.

  • avatar
    Agitated

    Am I the only one who laughed at the idea that six figures qualifies you to spend 50 large on a car? Maybe MID 6 figures….or maybe if you are leasing. I make well over 100K a year and cringe at the thought of spending more than 25K on a car. I don’t have the luxury of throwing money out the window. Not with kids in college and 30K miles a year on my vehicle.

  • avatar
    creamy

    but unlike real car magazines you have to wait a whole d-mned week to get the results of the comparison test you started reading.

    i thought the internet was supposed to increase the speed of information.

    stupid waiting…

  • avatar
    wsn

    Acura RL may not be suitable for this test. How about a TL?

    I mean if you compare a TL to an A6, they are very similar in size, power, and layout (front biased AWD). One has a beak, they other one has an infamous big mouth. A perfect match!

  • avatar
    wsn

    My prediction for the ranking:
    1) Jag, because it will be too MSM to make the bimmer No.1
    2) 535, see above
    3) A6, see below
    4) GS, it’s a Toyota

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    bunkie :
    October 20th, 2009 at 11:06 am

    This is a case where the specific options make a difference. I’ll bet you drove a V6 version. The V8 performance luxury package brings the magnetic ride control shocks which transform the handling. IMHO, equipped like this the STS is a much better car. There’s no appreciable body roll and it’s a lot of fun on back roads.

    You’re right, I didn’t drive the V-8, so I’ll take your word on it, but here’s the problem: option it up to match the others in this test (big engine, AWD), and you’re talking 70 large.

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    wsn :
    October 20th, 2009 at 1:51 pm

    Acura RL may not be suitable for this test. How about a TL?

    I mean if you compare a TL to an A6, they are very similar in size, power, and layout (front biased AWD). One has a beak, they other one has an infamous big mouth. A perfect match!

    LOL…yeah, I tried both the RL and TL. The TL is just too downmarket to fit here. The RL has the luxury component, and it’s not bad to drive, but it’s not a sedan with sporting intentions.

    And I hated the steering on the TL – it felt like one of those mid-’80s arcade driving games with artificial road feel. Yecch.

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    wsn :
    October 20th, 2009 at 1:55 pm

    My prediction for the ranking:
    1) Jag, because it will be too MSM to make the bimmer No.1
    2) 535, see above
    3) A6, see below
    4) GS, it’s a Toyota

    We shall see… :)

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    @ BMWnut and JKRoss…

    If you’re thinking about trading, consider an off-lease 7-series. Thanks to Chris Bangle and IDrive, the resale on those cars is God-awful, but if get one that’s ’06 or newer, with the IDrive and styling updates, and skip the stupid stuff like the active steering, it’s really a magnificent car to drive.

    I’ve seen three-year-old examples locally with 20-30,000 miles for $45-50,000, with CPO warranties. The current 7 goes for $90,000 or so. Amazing deal.

  • avatar
    craiggbear

    Jag??

    Isn’t this a Tata? Sexed up, but as a thrice abandoned brand, one has to wander. Have you seen the resale price on used Jags lately?

    Makes one want a 7 series.

  • avatar
    jmo

    Am I the only one who laughed at the idea that six figures qualifies you to spend 50 large on a car?

    It would depend on where you live and what your wife does. Also, 30k a year in mileage makes a difference.

    You can get a new 09 E350 for 45k after incentives. In five years and (in my case 35k total miles) it will be worth 20k. 25k/60 = 416 a month. Can you swing ~400 a month if you are making (after tax) 5k a month – sure. Unless you’re living in a high cost area. If you’re in Columbus or Austin it wouldn’t be too much of a problem.

  • avatar
    Richard Chen

    I thought 80 hour workweeks & 6 figure salaries helped you put down 20% on a house…

    Am I the only one who laughed at the idea that six figures qualifies you to spend 50 large on a car?

    @Robstar, @Agitated: exactly, ~$20K is my usual limit although we splurged $26K for the minivan, our cars are purchased with a single check. Got keep the kids’ expectations low when they get their licenses next decade.

  • avatar
    wolfman3k5

    @jmo and Rob

    Rob,

    He bought the place for 480k then got transferred he could only get 375k. He couldn’t afford to carry two mortgages. He does make good money but in this economy he doubted he would be able to find a job in a timely manner if he didn’t take the transfer.

    He should have been able to sell it.

    In his case he did sell it just for far less than he paid. While others are doing short sales or brining money to the closing – he just had to write off his downpayment.

    Again, if he had bought a really nice car instead it would have much more sense than buying a home.

    He could have just rented. And no, paying rent is not pissing away money, it’s buying patience, and it’s a heck of allot cheaper than loosing money in a short sale, or in his case, selling the house for less than he paid for it and lost the down payment. In any case, investing money in an expensive car doesn’t make much sense either, let alone a mass production expensive car like one of this six here. At least buy something that’s rare and holds its value. Anyway, to each with his own.

  • avatar
    skygreenleopard

    ^ Of course he could’ve rented. However, he just didn’t see a huge housing market crash coming – same as most people. He at least wasn’t a victim of stupidity with a bad loan and no job – I mean, he had 20% and a steady job. He was just a victim of circumstance who bought high and was forced to sell low, unfortunately.

    Can’t wait for the winner of this comparo. I’m secretly rooting for the Jag, but only because the company’s fallen oh so far….

  • avatar
    jmo

    In any case, investing money in an expensive car doesn’t make much sense either, let alone a mass production expensive car like one of this six here.

    We got into this mess because too many people assumed that buying a home was an “investment” instead of treating it like an expense that may or may not generate a return in the future.

    Buying a McMansion was no more an “investment” than buy a fancy car. At least with the fancy car the losses were (at least in the past few years) far more manageable.

  • avatar
    bimerguy

    I cant belief that this GS350 beat the Merc and Infiniti. I think the 3rd place will be the BMW 5 Series followed by the Audi A6 and No. 1 Should be the jaguar. Just a thought because the 5 series needs update. Almost every car maker in this segment has updated their car lately besides BMW..Which is getting updated soon. Throw me a 535Xi and I will be fine with it. I like the Jag but is too girly, I mean, too cute. The Audi A6 is good too but Audi’s residual value is terrible. The average joe folks who dont care about cars but would like a luxury car would admire a lexus or Jag because they are more refined. If someone asked me to rate them, This would be my opinion:
    #1. 535xi
    #2. Audi A6 Tie With Jag Xf
    #3. Merc E Class
    #4. lexus
    #5. Infinity

    The truth about cars is about the truth about cars..That is why they didn’t throw in the S80,The RL or a Hyndai that always claims to be better is some area than some of the cars here that have good heritage. I saw a Genesis and liked it but I wouldn’t buy one. A Lexus is too cool and quite for me..and the jag too sexy, I would definately buy one for a wife if I had the money. They should have included a cadillac. This is a very good comparrison and that is why I like TTBC.

  • avatar
    Airhen

    jmo :
    October 21st, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    We got into this mess because too many people assumed that buying a home was an “investment” instead of treating it like an expense that may or may not generate a return in the future.

    Don’t forget about the people who took low-rate ARMs or short term interest free mortgages in order to buy bigger and fancier homes. I bet they also had a few fancy cars too!

  • avatar
    Johnny Canada

    When you get to the BMW 5 Series review, please remind TTAC readers that this will be the final year for the E60/61 generation. Fortunately the 2010 (F10) appears to be reminiscent of the much beloved E39. Now, if only BMW would ditch that horrible Run Flat tire technology….

  • avatar
    TonyJZX

    a final shootout between the a6 and 5 series

    i’m out

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    @bimerguy :
    October 21st, 2009 at 7:00 pm

    I cant belief that this GS350 beat the Merc and Infiniti. I think the 3rd place will be the BMW 5 Series followed by the Audi A6 and No. 1 Should be the jaguar.
    —————————————————

    Well, I hate to disappoint… :)

    Frankly, I was shocked at how good the Lexus was. It gets no love from the motoring press, but it’s a helluva solid piece, and if they fixed the steering, it’d be a credible driver’s car.

  • avatar
    don1967

    The most-mentioned car in this thread seems to be the one that wasn’t included in the comparo: Hyundai Genesis.

    I’ve got to disagree with those who say a car should be excluded simply because it won’t win in their opinion. Using this logic, no Chrysler would be included in any review, ever. How does that benefit auto enthusiasts? Isn’t the whole point of a comparison to cut through the opinions, and establish a level playing field where a pecking order can be objectively established for better or worse?

    Granted, you have to draw the line somewhere, and Hyundai is clearly the under-pedigreed dog in this group. But the Korean producer also happens to be one of the top automotive stories of 2009. I think TTAC missed the boat on this one.

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    @don1967:

    Valid point about the Genesis, but frankly, when you lay down this much money on a car, snob appeal is part of the equation. The Genesis has none.

    The other part of this equation is that these sedans should have a sporting attitude. As nice as the Genesis is, there isn’t a sporting bone in its body. This is the same reason I excluded the Volvo S80 and Acura RL.

    The Genesis would have simply been outclassed and outgunned in this group.

    I think it would be more sensible to include the Genesis with cars like the Chrysler 300C, Toyota Avalon, and upscale versions of the Ford Taurus.

  • avatar
    jacksonbart

    80 hour work week? Danny is this Russia? This isn’t Russia, is it?

    Working 80 hours a week better get me a 7 figure salary with a chauffeur.

  • avatar
    jnik

    I take it from the Audi coming in second that the BMW won this test.
    Eddie, you’ve gone C/D on us!

  • avatar
    v7rmp7li

    FreedMike :
    “I think it would be more sensible to include the Genesis with cars like the Chrysler 300C, Toyota Avalon, and upscale versions of the Ford Taurus.”
    ————————-
    Hyundai Azera(a.k.a Hyundai Grandeur) is a same class in upscale versions of the Ford Taurus, Toyota Avalon.

    Genesis is valid competiotor of this premium mid size group.

    1. Size
    *The Genesis sedan is roughly the same exterior size as Lexus LS 460 sedan.
    *spacious interior volume than Lexus LS 460.
    *Its wheelbase size is same as Audi A8.

    Interior volume, Size, wheelbase length… Genesis is a certainly upper level(like Audi A8, S-Class. 7 Series) than them.

    2. Peformance, Fuel Economy
    the Genesis outperforms Lexus GS.
    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0810_2009_hyundai_genesis_first_test/specs_fuel_economy_performance.html
    Fuel Economy is also better than Lexus GS.

    3. Safety
    Top safety vehicle in its class
    http://sev.prnewswire.com/auto/20090226/LA7613026022009-1.html

    4. Premium stuffs
    Seat is ultra premium leather seat. noise level is very quite, better than any other car in its class. It equipped Rolls-Royce sound system, Lexicon audio. Its engine is a 2009 world best V8 engine.
    http://wardsauto.com/reports/2009/tenbest/best_engines_2009_081205/

    Genesis surpass them in many aspects. I don’t see any reason that Genesis is below class than them. only Genesis’ badge is not luxury.

  • avatar
    v7rmp7li

    +
    The use of high tensile steel in critical areas in the unibody provides Genesis with 12-14 percent higher dynamic torsional rigidity and a lower body structure weight than the BMW 5-series and Mercedes-Benz E-Class
    http://www.topspeed.com/cars/hyundai/2009-hyundai-genesis-ar48515.html

    It is solid than BMW 5-series and Mercedes-Benz E-Class.

    *Hyundai Azera/Nissan Maxima/Toyota Avalon/Pontiac G8 = FWD
    *Genesis, Lexus GS, BMW 5, E-class = RWD

    I don’t see any reason that Genesis is below class than them.

    Please don’t down grade genesis as Nissan Maxima/Toyota Avalon/Pontiac G8 Level…

    Hyundai Azera(a.k.a Hyundai Grandeur) is same class in Nissan Maxima/Toyota Avalon/Pontiac G8/ Ford Taurus. Genesis sedan is upper class than Azera.

  • avatar
    srogers

    v7rmp7li:
    You keep missing the part about “sport sedan”. You can play salesman all you want with the Genesis, but that still doesn’t make it fit in this group.

  • avatar
    v7rmp7li

    0-60, QUARTER MILE, LATERAL ACCELERATION, FIGURE EIGHT, 60-0
    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0810_2009_hyundai_genesis_first_test/specs_fuel_economy_performance.html

    Genesis outperforms Lexus GS.
    Lexus clams that GS is a sports sedan. Genesis is better performance than GS. And Genesis’ Size, Fuel Economy, Interior Volume, Safety, Audio sytem, Interior material, Rigidity, Engine are better than Lexus GS.

  • avatar
    Bimmer

    v7rmp7li

    Pontiac G8 = FWD

    since when?

  • avatar
    happy-cynic

    Great intro, about the 80 work week and blackberries.
    And of course the snob appeal. Hynudai ain’t invited to that party.
    At one point in my life, it was my dream to own one, Now I think it is good way to toss out money that goes into the second home, travel .. I am happy to drive my older Honda and domestic SUV, fill up with regular gas, not face huge insurance and repair cost.

    It would be interesting to know how many owners of these cars lease them, have more mundane jobs. still live at home with parents, etc,etc. That in itself (I know of couple personally) takes the “prestige” out of them.

    But, I do understand the appeal it has to the car buffs, who really like to drive them, too bad they have to put up with the trappings of luxury car image.

  • avatar
    Autosavant

    More requests that the Genesis was included.

    In fact, the Merc should have also been excluded, as was the Genesis. Both cars may be sedans, I will even give you that both are luxury sedans, despite the Huyndai’s very low starting price with the v6. BUT they are NOT, not by any stretch of the imagination, SPORTS sedans. And if they were included, they would be totally clobbered, as was the Merc, which WAS included, Mercs are not used in finishing no. 5 when compared against..only 5 other cars. The genesis sedan would most likely finish SEVENTH, a good distance below the Merc and the Infi.

    As for the so-called “Genesis” Coupe, which is really not a Genesis, and in particular is absolutely not a “luxury” anything, it is also not appropriate to include. Plus its price is less than one half of the best cars in this group.

  • avatar
    jmo

    It would be interesting to know how many owners of these cars lease them

    For business owners, there are many hidden savings in the tax code. Take that new company car, for instance. If you’re willing to jump through a few hoops, you can use the Internal Revenue Code to get the government to pay 40 percent or more of the cost of your new luxury car.

    http://www.inc.com/resources/tax/articles/200709/colombik.html

    Many of those leasing are doing it because they are owners or partners in a law firm, physician practice, CPA firm, consulting firm, etc.

  • avatar
    v7rmp7li

    @Autosavant :
    The genesis sedan would most likely finish SEVENTH, a good distance below the Merc and the Infi.
    —————————
    ?
    Well, I think your biased opinion is very subjective. Genesis Interior is far better than any infiniti model.
    —————————
    Interior Design and Special Features

    Inside the cabin, the 2009 Hyundai Genesis 4.6 V8 is outfitted like a true luxury sedan. Spacious, richly appointed and fully decked out with a comprehensive list of convenience features, this Hyundai looks and feels very much like a top-line Lexus. The seats are as comfortable as they appear, although they lack the kind of firm, highly bolstered Germanic treatment a sport sedan enthusiast might enjoy. The instrument panel’s white-on-black electroluminescent gauges look like they came straight out of a Lexus.

    The soft curves of the sweeping dashboard are complemented by an elegantly adorned center stack with numerous climate and audio controls, many of which have more driver-friendly counterparts either on the steering wheel or by the multimedia controller on the center console. Standard on the V8 model (and optional on the V6) is real leather trim that adorns the dash and door panels.

    The trunk offers a capacity of 15.9 cubic feet, and although the rear seat does not fold down, there is a pass-through feature.
    http://www.edmunds.com/hyundai/genesis/2009/review.html

    Interesting review of the new Hyundai Genesis luxury sedan in today’s Wall Street Journal , which makes the inescapable point that the car is a Lexus GS460 for nearly $16,000 less ($53,785 versus $38,000). It has the second (to the way more expensive Mercedes E550) most powerful V8 engine in the class, runs on regular, sources its gearbox from ZF, has a warranty 10,000 miles better than Lexus’s or BMW’s, more front and rear legroom than either one, and an interior of equal quality and tastefulness.
    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wsj-on-hyundai-genesis-it-could-be-mistaken-for-a-lexus-gs460/

    Indeed, the Genesis’s white-lit gauges appear to be near replicas of its Japanese foe’s, while its aptly dubbed “ultra-premium” leather looks, feels, and even smells like the LS’s. Further, the Genesis’s partially leather-covered two-tone dash with chromed piping actually seems richer than the hide-free LS’s, which comes across as somewhat monotone in comparison. The most conspicuous dissimilarity between the two is Hyundai’s application of the center-console-mounted Driver Information System (DIS), a fresh take on rotary-knobbed interfaces such as BMW’s iDrive. While we appreciate the LS’s clean, intuitive array of dash-mounted buttons and touch-screen, the Genesis’s DIS is equally user-friendly and a marked improvement over iDrive-”a savvy fusion of conventional buttons and the rotary knob,” observes St. Antoine.
    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0810_2009_hyundai_genesis_first_test/handling_interior_and_sound_system.html

  • avatar
    Jacob

    Poor poor Acura.

    They can’t make it even into a top 6 list in any segment anymore.

    We need to come up with a new classification scheme, so that Acura, Hyundai Genesis, Volvos, Lexus ES, STS, and the like can still get some piece of action.

    Perhaps it could be called “quasi-luxury sport sedan comparison”.

  • avatar
    Autosavant

    “you get to dump the Accord, and drop 50 or 60 large on a first-class luxury sedan.”

    These are all luxury sedans, as opposed to the cheaper and/or smaller NEAR Luxury sedans, but IMHO they sure are NOT “first class” luxury sedans but rather family-friendly ones, with good sized trunks. The first class ones are:

    The LS 460

    The 7 series

    The M-B S-class of course,

    and the Audi A8.

    The vast difference in prices between the above and the smaller cars tested here, even if they have the same engine CC, prove my point.

    Unless you want to add a class above “first Class”

    How about “Ruling Class”!!!???

  • avatar
    Autosavant

    I wrote

    The genesis sedan would most likely finish SEVENTH, a good distance below the Merc and the Infi.
    —————————
    Somebody replied

    ?
    “Well, I think your biased opinion is very subjective. Genesis Interior is far better than any infiniti model.”

    No, Your Obviously pro-hyundai biased opinion is far more subjective than mine. I do not need to save a few measly bucks by buying any of the two, I sure do not like the infiniti exterior weird styling, and have not bothgered to check its interior. I would not drive near any Nissan either, with the possible exception of the GS-R.

    and I could care less if one is sixth and the other seventh, or vice versa. Either way, they are at the BOTTOM.

    I actually tried to SAVE the genesis from humiliation if included in the test by saying that both the genesis Sedan and the M-B 350 are NOT “SPORTS” sedans, which is the title of this test, remember?

  • avatar
    JGlanton

    Will we be getting a writeup on the car that won the comparison? We know which car it is, by default, but can we know more about it, and why it won, and how it scored?


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