By on October 28, 2009

No, Honda’s Accord-based Crossover sin-against-nature hasn’t been canceled, but it is being cannibalized (sort of). Acura has announced [via Autoblog] that a TSX Sportwagon will be offered beginning with the 2011 model year. In short, if you begged Honda to bring a Euro-spec Accord wagon to market, your pleas have been answered… as long as you’re willing to shell out at Acura prices. More information as it becomes available… meanwhile, notch up another promising sign in the Honda column.

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30 Comments on “Hate The Honda Crosstour? You’ve Been Heard...”


  • avatar
    ajla

    Acura’s design team will have to beat it to death with an ugly stick first.

  • avatar
    Via Nocturna

    Speaking of cannibalization, what is this going to do to Oddy sales? Well, provided it’s offered at a $30K-ish price point.

  • avatar
    Sammy B

    Very good news. Bummer it’ll be the Acura version w/ more bells & whistles than I need/want. Oh well. I guess I’ll have to wait for the 2-3 yr off-lease specials.

    Let’s hope they offer a stick shift (though I won’t hold my breath). It would be the perfect replacement for my Mazda6 wagon (which is also a stick).

  • avatar

    That picture is of the old wagon. The new one is based on the new TSX.

    I hope people buy a lot of these. I’m in no position to buy a new car so I need others to help the wagon effort and keep the manufacturers interested in the segment.

  • avatar
    PennSt8

    I know it’s wishful thinking, but I hope this is priced under 30K. Otherwise I’ll keep my eye on the A4 Avant.

  • avatar
    Daniel J. Stern

    Mmmm…no, it doesn’t look to me as if any prayers have been answered. The “prayers” (i.e., emphatically stated market demand) is for the Honda Accord wagon as sold in Europe, not for an overpriced Acura. I predict this will be priced out of consideration by many who would be in the market (and budget) for an Accord wagon, following which Honda will say “See? Americans don’t buy station wagons!”.

    Why can’t they just do as they’re asked?

  • avatar
    Paul Niedermeyer

    Daniel J. Stern: Why can’t they just do as they’re asked?

    Well, the European version (TSX) is all ready to go, and it’s a size smaller than the US Accord, so that would make things a bit odd to show up as a Honda…

  • avatar
    Jeff Puthuff

    As long as you’re willing to put up with Acura’s odd snout and exaggerated F-22 Raptor-esque body panels.

    FTFY.

  • avatar
    cRacK hEaD aLLeY

    That’s an easy one… Acura’s design genitals, I mean ingenious design studio will add that abortion-inducing front chrome beak to make it look 1/2 Retarded Transformer and 1/2 Alfred E Newman, depending on the angle.
    And it will come only with an automatic and will sell north of 34K. That’s Acura today.

  • avatar
    Daniel J. Stern

    @Paul Niedermeyer:
    it’s a size smaller than the US Accord, so that would make things a bit odd to show up as a Honda…

    No sale. They’ve successfully sold (smaller) Euro-type and (bigger) American-type Honda Accords as Honda Accords side by side in Australia and in New Zealand for years.

  • avatar
    Paul Niedermeyer

    @Daniel J. Stern,

    Well, there’s no Acura in those places. It’s like the Lexus models sold as Toyotas in other countries.

  • avatar
    psarhjinian

    Speaking of cannibalization, what is this going to do to Oddy sales?

    Not much, I suspect. Anyone buying a minivan is not going to settle for a small wagon. Or any wagon, frankly.

    Now, the CR-V might be in trouble…

  • avatar
    Richard Chen

    I’m going to give it 2-3 years before Honda discontinues it due to lack of demand.

    Mazda only sold a couple hundred Mazda6 wagons per month before it discontinued, most of them fleet.

  • avatar
    Becomethemedia

    Hey it’s a start so kudos to Honda and proof that people power – via Facetube and My Face – can bring about change from the norm if they make enough of a fuss.
    For me the Crosstour and the Acura ZDX represented the nadir of the Crossover, along with the X6 and the Venza so this will help Honda’s image IMHO.
    And they’ll sell well in Canada but it’s up the the American market to make it a success, and for that I remain cautiously optimistic.
    So long as they don’t saddle it with a big V6, fat a** seats, and soft suspension then what could possibly go wrong?

  • avatar
    stuki

    psarhjinian, not to mention RDX.

    If it’s the size of the last Euro Accord Wagon I drove, it will be (In Bimmer terms) a 5, and not a 3, nor Audi A4, interior space wise. And just in time for Bimmer taking a wait and see on that model for NA, possibly leaving only the weird GT here. And for Volvo and Saab to just disappear.

    I’m definitely in the market for this one, if I’m still in Cali by the time it comes out. But please, please, Acura, include laser cruise as an option, preferably with stop and go. With enough grade logic to make sure it works consistently on steep, stair stepped hills.

  • avatar
    mtypex

    The TSX sedan is a $30K car. The wagon won’t be less expensive.

  • avatar
    Tosh

    This is the burgundy Accord Tourer Concept that I creamed all over myself about TWO! years ago (that I have jpegs of), but painted blue instead.

    I’m not excited anymore by what will become an ugly TSX wagon in US, because I don’t want leather, and because the 2.4 liter 4 cyl with 6-spd manual revs at about 3400 RPM at about 70 MPH in SIXTH gear (on my test drive). WTF? My CL-S 5AT revs at 2k at 72 MPH…

    (Diesel and stick? YES! Why are my pants shrinking?)

  • avatar
    Daniel J. Stern

    @PN:

    there’s no Acura in those places

    But the fact remains, differently-sized Accords sell just fine next to each other, all badged as Honda Accords. In Australia, the Accord Euro automatic lists for A$37,290 to A$48,290. The US-type Accord automatic lists for A$32,290 to A$49,990. So there’s a ~A$5K premium to go from the entry-model larger US Accord to the entry-level smaller Euro Accord, but once you’re past that the price range is within A$1700.

    In the US, the automatic TSX MSRP runs from $29,310 to $37,950, while the automatic Accord MSRP runs from $21,055 to $31,105. That’s a much bigger gap from the bottom to the top of the range, and it looks to me as if most of that gap is “justified” by the Acura nameplate. I call shenanigans!

  • avatar
    John Horner

    Wow, do you suppose Acura listened to me ? :)

    “Now where is my TSX wagon???? The European Accord is sold everywhere else as a wagon, so why not make the US version available?” December 2006 on TTAC comment by jthorner, my other name :).

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/acura-mdx/

    “I have owned my TSX for nearly a year now and still like it a great deal. I would like it even more if they let us have the wagon version …. “ April 2007 on TTAC, jthorner

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/acura-tsx/

    My point then and now is that since the TSX is an Accord everywhere else there should be very minimal cost to Acura to import the TSX Wagon version. Even if it only sells a few hundred extra units per month that is something. It sure makes a lot more sense than the RDX and RL do.

    If Acura is still listening, then hear this: Do not use your current Acura grill. It is hideous! Simply slap the little Acura logo in where the current Honda logo is on the UK version of the wagon and call the styling exercise done. Now, where do I collect my consultant’s fee? :)

  • avatar
    John Horner

    “That’s a much bigger gap from the bottom to the top of the range, and it looks to me as if most of that gap is “justified” by the Acura nameplate. I call shenanigans!”

    In Honda speak, the TSX starts out at about the same equipment level as a full-boat Honda Accord EX-L. A four cylinder Accord EX-L automatic has an MSRP of $27,540. A base Acura TSX 4 cylinder automatic has an MSRP of $30,120. So the price premium for the Acura label and a longer warranty is around $2,580. Acura also throws in a couple of other goodies like a better trip computer and cargo tie downs in the trunk. The Acura may have slightly better interior materials and fit and finish, but I couldn’t prove or disprove it.

  • avatar
    Via Nocturna

    @psarhjinian

    I doubt people are going to cross-shop the CR-V and TSX wagon. The price points and badge identity are too different. You are right, though, the Oddy and TSX are aiming at different market segments. I think stuki has the right idea in pointing out the RDX.

  • avatar
    hurls

    Well I think I may have mentioned the same desire as John Horner in the past, but I couldn’t wait for Honda to ever do this, so there’s a new A4 Avant in my garage that replaced my previous TSX sedan.

    But if they don’t ruin this thing with a gawdawful grill treatment, who knows in three years….

    lord knows they didn’t do the current TSX any favors in the styling department.

    Oddly though, the TSX looks much better to me when I see it next to the new TL on the showroom floor.

  • avatar
    Mirko Reinhardt

    @stuki :
    If it’s the size of the last Euro Accord Wagon I drove, it will be (In Bimmer terms) a 5, and not a 3

    Yes, that was the Mk6 Accord wagon.

    The last generation (Mk6) Accord Wagon had a wheelbase stretch over the sedan, a flat load floor with the seats down and a cargo capacity of 520L (rear seats up, loaded to the trunk cover) or 1657L (rear seats down, loaded to the roof)

    The current (Mk7) Accord wagon doesn’t have a flat load floor, doesn’t have the additional wheelbase, isn’t that boxy and swallows only 395L/1252L.

    Compare that to a BMW 3-series wagon with 460L/1385L (8″ shorter than the Honda and RWD!) and it’s apparent the Honda isn’t that practical.
    BTW, 5-series wagon is 500L/1615L. So about the same as the last gen. Accord wagon.

  • avatar

    @Daniel J. Stern

    What’s missing is the sales ratios for the US Accord sedan versus the Accord Euro here.

    From casual looking around the roads whilst driving, there’s at least 20 Accord Euros for every US Accord.

    I wonder why as both are sedans (i.e. useless), and the larger US car is better value for money as it’s cheaper and bigger, and at least in its latest incarnation doesn’t look like a bar of discount soap.

    We also get the MDX as a Honda here, and formerly the Integra. There’s absolutely nothing special about the MDX. I doubt Honda could sell more by rebadging it as an Acura and charging more. The Legend sells so poorly I’m still surprised to see it on sale. I’ve not seen one for many years.

    Andrew

  • avatar
    psarhjinian

    Compare that to a BMW 3-series wagon with 460L/1385L (8″ shorter than the Honda and RWD!) and it’s apparent the Honda isn’t that practical.

    One, those differences are not large. You can squeeze a few litres around the spare tire, shock towers, etc.

    Two, if you consider that the 3-Series wagon is pretty cramped itself—rather more a hatchback than a wagon—it really makes you wonder about low-roof wagons as a class. For example: the Fit/Jazz (not the Accord) is 600L/1622L, or more than the 5-Series wagon. Then there’s the Kia Rondo: 185/898/2083 in a body much, much shorter than either the Accord, 3er or 5er.

    Classic wagons are nice and all, but you can see why, even in Europe, they’re going the way of the dodo. If you want sporty and sleek, chaces are you’ll pass up the wagonoid; if you want cargo, you’ll skip the whole low-roof class.

  • avatar
    carve

    I’ve been clamoring for an Accord wagon for years. People looking for a practical haul-muddy-bikes-and-dogs around car are generally going to be looking at a lower price point. Plus, this’ll have an ugly chrome beak on it. They really should’ve made it an Accord wagon with an entry price of about 20k, topping out at 30.

    I’m sure Honda will use this as “evidence” American’s don’t like wagons.

  • avatar
    Mirko Reinhardt

    @psarhjinian :
    Classic wagons are nice and all, but you can see why, even in Europe, they’re going the way of the dodo.

    85% of European Passat buyers, 65% of 3-series buyers, 55% of E-class buyers, 70% of Mondeo buyers… would like to disagree.

    If you want sporty and sleek, chaces are you’ll pass up the wagonoid; if you want cargo, you’ll skip the whole low-roof class.

    If you are a real person and need a car that does it all, hauling and a sporty driving experience, a traditional low wagon/hatch is your only choice.

    One, those differences are not large.

    Large exterior, small interior equals bad packaging. Disappointing to see something like that coming from Honda – they can do better.

    For example: the Fit/Jazz (not the Accord) is 600L/1622L

    I wonder where that number comes from. Honda’s own website says 346L/1332L. Which is impressive for a car that size.

    http://honda.de/content/automobile/modelle_jazz_technische_daten.php

  • avatar
    Airhen

    I’ll agree that Honda’s designers have given weird looks (almost ugly) to cars over the years, I don’t think this is too bad. If I was going to buy a four-door Accord, I could see buying a wagon instead. I hate trunks… I always have.

    This would be a good alternative to a mini-van for people that can’t stand the thought of buying/owning one.

  • avatar
    psarhjinian

    I wonder where that number comes from. Honda’s own website says 346L/1332L. Which is impressive for a car that size.

    Honda Canada. Do they give you a bigger spare tire in Europe?

    85% of European Passat buyers, 65% of 3-series buyers, 55% of E-class buyers, 70% of Mondeo buyers… would like to disagree.

    That’s like saying 100% of Corvette buyers buy two-seat cars—it doesn’t mean that two-seaters are more popular than four-seaters. Where a wagon and sedan are the only choices, people in Europe pick the wagon.

    WBut what about sales of the MPVs/Crossovers like the Sharan/Touran, X3, B- and GLK-Class, GLK or Kuga? As in North America, those are on the rise, and coming at the expense of the wagon and hatchback variants of the traditional low-roofer.

    They’re sporty enough, cheap enough and cavernous enough to do what people want, and most people, even in Europe, are not buying discretionary cars. This is why wagons aren’t going to be with us much longer, especially now that MPVs/XUVs really are very good.

    If you are a real person and need a car that does it all, hauling and a sporty driving experience, a traditional low wagon/hatch is your only choice.

    Those people are in the minority, and even then, the sporty feeling is just as much there in a well-sorted MPV/crossover as it is in a wagon, except that you get a seating position that people actually like, and a whole lot of room.

    I’m sure we’ll still see wagons, but they’re going to be relegated to specialty marques where the margin can offset the cost. In North America, this has already happened; in Europe it’s well on it’s way.

  • avatar
    stuki

    Mirko Reinhardt, Thanks for that info. Honda must be about the only maker out there shrinking their cars from one generation to the next. But maybe it was just the last Accord Wagon being too far removed from the sedan to be economical. Anyway, with no flat load floor, and no 5 size, that’s one less car I’ll have to consider.

    psarhjinian, even without gargantuan capacity, wagons are just sooooo much easier to load irregular shaped stuff into than sedans, due to the bigger trunk opening. A Segway simply won’t fit through the mail slot in the rear of a 3 series sedan, despite there being plenty of volume to hold it with the seats down. Hauling Boxes and upright suitcases are another area where wagons really shine, despite not being that much larger than their now tall decked Sedan counterparts volume wise. Also, a 5 series and above sized wagon with a flat floor allows for sleeping in the back, which is problematic in a vehicle that gets its cargo volume from height instead of length. In general, for living in denser places at least, the “Euro way” of a midsize wagon, with a roof low enough to easily pack a top box when more space is needed, in combination with a trailer for those few times most people “need” a pickup truck, has a lot to recommend it over the gargantuan SUV / Pickup Truck that serves a similar need over here.


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