When it comes to cars from General Motors, I’m always prepared for disappointment. No matter how promising the new vehicle is (Corvette!), GM finds a way to let me down (Corvette seats!) Take the Pontiac Solstice GXP. Flat gorgeous. More important, that sweet turbocharged engine with its (relatively) massive power and torque. Hell yeah, right? But the shift linkage is made from hamster bedding. The interior was designed for Gitmo inmates. And the brakes — when pushed — stink. I mention this because I was wholly ready to be let down by the new Pontiac G8 GT.
The French have seven types of love. Eskimos have 40 words for snow. Jews have 78 ways to call you the village idiot. As such, pistonheads need a few ways to explain “ugly.” There’s Deformed Mutant Awful Ugly (Aztek, BMW 1-Series, anything made in Malaysia), Dull Ugly (Toyota, BMW 3-Series), Bizarre, Avant-Gross Ugly (BMW 6-series, modern French cars) and Exciting Ugly (BMW X6, Nissan GT-R). The Pontiac G8’s face is without question Exciting Ugly. Whereas the side and rear views are just kinda an homage to Acura.
Inside, I love every inch. I love the font they chose for the gauges. I love the bolt-action clack-clack-clack-clack when the doors lock. I love the rubber bellows coverings on the column stalks. Hell, I love the column stalks. And after 100-years the General finally gives us world-class seats. Sure, the glove box isn’t made from the same top shelf petrochemicals as the rest of the G8’s dash, but do you really care? Really?
As nice as the G8’s innards are, that’s all just bunting. I’m here to crow about how damn well this Pontiac drives. Every review of the G8 has mentioned that the wunda from down unda is nearly identical to the BMW 5-series. Why be different? But here’s the thing — the Pontiac’s better. BMW has scientifically bested themselves out of the ultimate driving machine game with drowsy steering and rock hard run flats that necessitate softer springs. Meanwhile, the G8 is old-school and coarse enough to provide actual feedback. Which makes it not only a hoot and a holler, but easy to hoon.
The secret sauce is the G8’s completely neutral and compliant chassis. There’s no predilection towards under or oversteer. Thrown hard into a corner, the big boy’s content to just gently break grip before calmly (and quickly) regaining purchase. Kick the fun-pedal and the Pontiac simply heads off in whatever direction you’re pointing. While losing traction (for a moment) sounds frightening, in reality, it’s confidence inspiring. Meaning the G8’s predictable; the most you can ask for in a performance car.
Two little qualifications, if I may. First, my test car showed up with 18″ all-season tires. As Southern California doesn’t have seasons, slathering some larger wheels with USDA Choice meats would’ve provided more stick ‘em. The other caveat is when I say the G8 breaks grip, it only does so with the traction control disabled and the driver punching the snot out of it. Which I certainly did. In fact, let me paint you a picture.
My buddy’s been babysitting a replica 1973 Porsche RS 2.7. The Porsche’s owner finally demanded the RS back. So we set out over Mulholland Drive to return it. In case you’ve never been, it’s a fall-off-a-cliff curvy road. I was behind him in the G8 and the Porsche never got more than two car lengths ahead of me. How is a four-door, two-ton American sedan able to keep up with a race-ready, 2,000-pounds lighter German sports car? Because the G8 GT’s handling is totally awesome, dude.
Then there’s that hunk of an engine.
Under the Pontiac’s blistered hood resides a 6.0-liter V8 that’s good for 361 horses and 385 sweet lb-ft of torque. That works out to a 0 – 60 time of 5.3 seconds, even with the less-than-stellar six-speed slush-a-roo. But drag racing’s not this car’s prime directive. The G8 with the V8 is all about confidence. That weaving van? Of course you can get in front of it. Just dip your foot, prepare your ears for a snarling sonic treat and go! Easy like Sunday morning. And thanks to the torqued-out simplicity of pushrods, with the cruise control set at 80 mph, I was getting 27 mpg.
I suppose there are a few G8-related bugaboos you could fret over. That muscular motor makes triple-digit speeds far too easy. I constantly found myself over 95 mph when I wasn’t even in the mood. Conversely, without explaining that you’re actually driving a thuggish, high performance antipodean sports sedan, everyone will assume you spent $32k on a rental car. And you can’t have three pedals. But even with only two, the G8 GT is the best American car I’ve ever driven. Color me smitten.
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Doesn’t the star rating get an automatic 1-star deduction for an automatic?
Wow, I haven’t seen Jonny this excited about a car since he reviewed the Audi RS4. Impressed, I am.
Great review, great writing.
To the point, just the right amount of methaphor, and more than anything enthusiastic. I can feel that you really loved driving that car, I can feel it from here.
Why can’t I see the star rating in detail?
The G8…is very close to perfection on wheels. Great engine, great price, great interior, great looks, great sound…just great.
I wish sales were better…but I have yet to see a G8 ad on TV. Is GM even advertising the car?
A couple of months ago, I went to my local Pontiac/Buick dealer to get a part for my Buick (a part that should not have broken…but I digress). Their first shipment of G8’s had just come in. The parts person told me to go have a look. Better yet, take one for a testdrive. So I went over and asked. There were no other customers in the dealership. Seems the G8’s they had, except for the one in the showroom, had been sold already. In fact, they told me a lady came in and bought one while it was still on the truck. So I looked at the one G8 in the showroom. It was loaded to the hilt with every possible option available. Probably up to BMW 5 series level of equipment. Priced at a whopping $50K (!!!!). No way could I, or the salesperson, configure a $50K G8 on the GM website so both him and I wondered how it got to $50K. I sat in it, and Jonny’s right. It’s not a bad car. Much better than expected, coming from Pontiac.
I did not get to test drive it. However, I did close the door and the clank of the door closing was not the same as the thud I got on a BMW. Sorry, Jonny. I’ll differ from your opinion (and GM’s marketers’) that the G8 is better than a BMW. I recon I wouldn’t be as satisfied with it after 90 days (the length of time it takes to pass the JD Powers quality survey).
I do hope this car does well in the market though. It is a fine looking car (coming from a guy who’s owned a number of Pontiacs in his lifetime), but I just can’t get myself to go through the ownership experience of another GM car.
I hope for GM’s sake it doesn’t come to this but…bring on the incentives! I can’t afford this right now, but a little inducement might do the job. My second car is economical so wtf!
I want one =) don’t mind if it’s called Holden Commodore or Pontiac G8
As the writer of Take One, I agree with much of what’s written here. But a “homage to Acura?” The side view is nearly all BMW E46.
The interior isn’t that great. But Jonny correctly implies that the engine and chassis can make the car’s flaws seem insignificant.
I can’t recall if Jonny has driven the current Corvette and CTS. Those are the only potential challengers to the “best American car I’ve driven” title.
On the reliability front, I’m having a hard time digging up a large enough sample of G8s even with the help of forum G8GT.com. Know someone who owns one? Please send them here:
http://www.truedelta.com/reliability.php
If this car had a manual, I’d probably have one. The auto is really horrible. I couldn’t stand it. And I’m no manual snob, I drive a 4-speed auto Mazda3 that is a joy to drive.
The transmission has 2 modes: grandma (D) and teenager (Sport). You’re either saving gas and having no fun or having fun and wasting gas. If you want anything in between, you’re gonna have to shift yourself, which defeats the purpose of an auto.
Yes, the GXP will have a manual, but the price premium will probably be too much for a couple dozen extra horsepower. Maybe I’ll find a used G8 GXP in a couple years. Or a GTO right now…
beken:
Were those dollars Canadian? Can’t get the price anywhere near 50k on a U.S. G8. No can you load one with anywhere near a BMW level of equipment. Many, many features are simply not available on this car.
In Jonny’s and GM’s defense, they’re not saying that the entire car is better than a 5. They’re saying it’s more fun to drive than a 5. The interior, features, door closing, refinement, etc. not so much.
A Pontiac that gets 5 stars??? I laughed so hard, you’ll have to excuse me a few minutes while I pick myself up from the floor…
Thank you for turning on the comments.
Something funny, or are you still in denial over GM’s ability to make a good car?
I finally saw one in person in my office parking lot. Gorgeous car, and one of the few GM products I was actually excited about. The lack of a manual was what killed it for me as far as the car to get…
If only it really were American.
There’s no marketing behind it because the US dollar is so low that they probably make no profit on them…same reason there’s no marketing on the Astra.
But God Bless the pushrods….360hp V8 and 27 highway mpg…that’s incredible
I believe it’s definitely great value. However, only the V8 version really works. With the V6 it still is just a subpar Camcord, even if now the Pontiac isn’t a bad joke anymore in comparison unlike other US GM products from the last 2 decades in particular.
Whether or not the V8 will have a large customer base? I’m guessing no.
In Europe it’s only offered in the UK as Vauxhall VXR (and 400 HP) and the guys at TopGear certainly love it. However, once again, pricing puts it against base model 5 series and A6s over here and it just loses out against those when used as daily driver/1st car.
A manual will be offered in the 2008 GXP.
The problem with the V6 isn’t a lack of power, it’s a lack of refinement. With a bit more tuning and better transmission ratios the V6 would be a viable car. It’s certainly no Camcord.
Even if they were the same price, I’d rather have this than a 5-Series. The 5-Series is too ugly for me to ever want to own. I’m glad Jonny agrees with me that the 3-Series is ugly too
This car does desperately need a stick though
I have no doubt that GM could engineer and build a car as good as the Germans or Japanese, but if they did, could they compete price-wise?
Like has been said, this car is a few tweeks and materials away from a BMW. Could GM ramp it up one more notch and sell at or below the ultimate driving machine?
If I were calling the shots at GM, I would leave quantity and economy to Chevy solely to compete with the Toyondassan. Use Saturn to compete with and best VW. Use Pontiac to compete with and best the entry BMW/MB. Use Buick to compete with and best Lexus. And make Cadillac simply the most coveted performance car out there, regardless of price. GMC should be commercial vehicles only, and Hummer and Saab could go away.
If you can’t beat them to the price, then just make better cars.
Damn it GM. Tease me with a Commodore sedan but then deny me the wagon.
Casual Observer:
fo’ rizzle — this car is exactly as good as “the Germans” — if not better.
and it’s half the money
and disregard everything my pal Karesh is saying about the interior — the G8’s is splendid.
Side profile caption: “Competetion”. Plz fix.
Great review Jonny. I am a big Pontiac fan (due to Smokey) and can’t wait to get my hands on one of these!
How’s the sound?
davey49: Bitchin’
Which interior did you have, Jonny? Black cloth, black leather, or red leather? The first car I drove had the red leather, and I felt the interior was pretty good. Then I drove a V6 with the black cloth, and it rubbed me the wrong way.
Perhaps it is because I am originally from down under that I can’t get that excited about a commodore. In the supercheap US market, 32K still sounds like too much for a 45K AUD SS commodore when a 45K 335 costs over 100K cool ones back home.
I don’t understand why GM is selling cars like this G8 or the Astra when they make no profit from them! GM is losing money like crazy, so their solution is to bring in “new” products from overseas that sell poorly due to a lack of advertisement/awareness? Why bother bringing the car over if you’re not going to support it with an advertising campaign? Pontiac and Saturn are no longer in the average consumer’s mind, and they need to do something to bring it back into the consumer’s awareness (aside from flooding the rental car market). As a side note, why is VW able to make a (small) profit from the Rabbit aka Golf, while Saturn is unable to make one on the Astra? It has been widely reported that the Golf is very expensive to produce, and yet VW is still able to make it work. What is Saturn doing that makes the Astra so expensive to bring over?
I think if GM actually marketed this vehicle as a niche market vehicle, upped the quality on the interior, and ditched the V6, the car could actually turn a profit. Make the car fully loaded, and just allow the consumer to pick the color. By reducing the options, I bet they’d save money on production. The V6 just blurs the performance image anyway.
The design is truely dull. I can’t tell how it drives … not available in Europe.
:-(
I know there are few 1-series fans in the ranks of TTAC, but placing it in the same grouping as the Aztec… that’s harsh, Jonny.
I’ve had my G8 GT since Independence Day weekend and I can’t praise it enough. Like Johnny, I’m smitten, it’s an effing fantastic car for a effing fantastic price.
It’s a perfect modern muscle car. It’s interior is nice but all business and doesn’t overdo it with unnecessary toys or features. Great seats, great wheel, great ergonomics, great workmanship, all black in color and real leather instead of the glossy, slippery banana peel stuff every automaker that builds here is fond of using.
The G8 is a car that’s all about the actual drive and it has enough room to take your family and friends with you. With just you or fully loaded with people and things it is a riot.
The icing on the cake? Mine returns 19mpg overall in bumper to bumper daily commuting. Not far off of what my friend was getting here in his four cylinder TSX. The G8 will also be getting GM’s DI V6 when Holden starts using it Down Under soon.
Keep in mind that the new Camaro is also engineered by Holden and based on this car. That bodes extremely well for the experience it will provide.
It’s ironic the Aussies build a better U.S. muscle car that the Americans.
I’m happy GM finally knocked one out of the park. Too bad the domestic oil cartel’s shenanigans will dampen sales.
I thought sporty RWD sedans were supposed to be the savior of the domestic automakers, so why are these G8s not selling well at all?
I thought we in America were all clamoring to replace our boring FWD import appliances with “exciting” burn-out and fishtail producing V8 powered hot-rods that speak to our true American automobile culture?
When you actually explore the reason that the G8 is not selling so well you will than understand why this is NOT a 5 star vehicle. If you are going out to buy a car to have “fun” than I guess the G8 might fill your bill. But for that matter why not just buy the less expensive but more fun a Mustang GT? The reason why you would buy a $30,000 4 door sedan equiped only with an automatic is because you actually need a car for utility. You know like commuting, driving the rug rats to school, and a nice road trip here and there. Put another why, all of those times were “fun” is just not appropiate.
So how useful is the G8? Does it have superior comfort, trunck space, back seat space? What type of mileage did you get with this thing? Other than the fact that it has a big honking v8 that that only has about the same motivative force as a good modern (more efficient) v6 and a “fun” RWD platform what is so good about the G8 that would make a 5 star family sedan? Considering that every review I have read of the v6 model basically has read like; “nothing to see here” does a V8 alone equate to five stars?
There is a goods reason why most enthusiast will check out a G8 and than go out a buy a $30,000 Accord or Altima without a second thought. While not RWD they are just as powerful and quick. They handle very well. They are full of features and equipment that you can’t get on a G8. They drive well in any type of weather. They return decent mileage. They do not force the 5 passanger to endure the dreaded hump. They do not have a rear diff eating up valuble trunk space. They also offer more interior room in a smaller, lighter, easier to park and manage size.
Pontiac already tried to do “fun” with this platform and even with all the right moves the GTO was a big flop. So now we hear that the G8 is as “fun” as the GTO but with two more doors and no manual and it is a 5 star car???????
Jonny noted the seat comfort. In my Take One review I noted the roomy interior. This car has utility covered.
No front-drive sedan can deliver handling like a good rear-drive chassis can. And as both reviews have noted, this car delivers on the handling front.
The V8 is worth extra stars over the V6 because the execution of the V6 is poor, and the execution of the V8 is considerably better (though could be better still–both reviews have criticized the transmission).
The G8 GT is priced at $28K (employee pricing). Can anyone honestly say there is a better car than this for the same price? I can’t find one.
changsta:
VW sources their more mundane Rabbits and Jettas from Mexico. No Euro-trading issues, just the good ol Peso. The hi-po (R32s, GTI’s,etc.) VWs come from Germany.
All US bound Astras are built in Belgium and are priced (costed?) in Euros. (Not like we get the real hot ones over here, like they do in Europe and Great Britain…)
Obviously with the exchange rate, this is not a good thing for GM right now.
I haven’t driven one of these yet because I know I would buy it, and I want to wait for the GXP and ST before I write the check.
However, one area that I’m hoping to see GM improve with the G8 GT is the exhaust note: it seems too quiet and a little high-strung. The always-audible, low, rumbling note of the ‘04-’06 GTO or Charger R/T Daytona is more what I’m hoping for.
As far as I know, no aftermarket G8 exhaust sounds very good either.
Love….This…Car.
I would hope to see a manual in it someday, I think it could theoretically be possible because is the 3.6L V6 not the same one as in the CTS?
If it had a manual, it would defeat the Charger in every way. Looks, power, drivetrain, interior…etc.
Glad to see an American car get the attention and credit it so deserves. Well done GM. (wait, did I just type that?)
If I recall correctly, the most recent 5-star vehicles have been the G8 and the Hyundai Genesis. Has the world gone wacky, or is there beginning to be a changing of the guard?
Actually, I think the world’s gone wacky – no way GM would purposefully build a great car – even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.
It’s certainly no Camcord.
thank the lord for that, even in V6 form.
Pity Ford doesn’t see the light – they could replace the mustang chassis, the panther chassis and have a rwd Lincoln and just reskin them all.
The failure of the GTO was in Pontiac’s attempts to market it as the second coming of the Goat. The plain jane jellybean styling of the GTO betrayed the aggressive designs of both the first and second generation GTO’s. It would’ve fared much better if Pontiac had given it a clean sheet instead of setting it up against lofty expectations.
There is a goods reason why most enthusiast will check out a G8 and than go out a buy a $30,000 Accord or Altima without a second thought. While not RWD they are just as powerful and quick. They handle very well. They are full of features and equipment that you can’t get on a G8. They drive well in any type of weather. They return decent mileage. They do not force the 5 passanger to endure the dreaded hump. They do not have a rear diff eating up valuble trunk space. They also offer more interior room in a smaller, lighter, easier to park and manage size.
I think this is absurd. Somebody who checks out this car is more likely to find themselves in Evo X than a CamCord. Why? Because you can’t cross-shop the two. Different driving dynamics, different customers the two are trying to reach. You don’t window-shop a RS4 and drive home in an Elantra, so why should this happen with the G8? As far as the ‘dreaded’ hump goes? I do believe that is vastly overrated. Any car is going to be uncomfortable when you stack the backseat three deep, drive hump or not. Besides, lost trunk space doesn’t seem to be an issue in cars that have AWD. I doubt it’ll cause much trouble here.
TriShield :
It’s a perfect modern muscle car. It’s interior is nice but all business and doesn’t overdo it with unnecessary toys or features.
Comment of the day.
whatdoiknow1:
So how useful is the G8? Does it have superior comfort, trunck space, back seat space? What type of mileage did you get with this thing? Other than the fact that it has a big honking v8 that that only has about the same motivative force as a good modern (more efficient) v6 and a “fun” RWD platform what is so good about the G8 that would make a 5 star family sedan?
If I may…
The G8 is very useful. Huge back seats, and a mammoth trunk. The car is within a half-inch of the 5-Series in every dimension, so it provides real, actual room.
Mileage. Driving like an utter maniac (sorry Mom, Pontiac) I saw 17.x mpg overall. I did my usual highway test (set the cruise at 80 mph on the always empty 210 between the 5 and 2 — that’s about 20 miles) and saw 27 mpg. And that’s with some steep hills. At 80 mph the engine spins at 1,900 rpm. This is why I LOVE pushrods. 4-valve, DOHC engines are also awesome, but with so many moving parts they are not as efficient. Or torquey.
This V8 crushes modern V6s. Let’s take the most potent FWD Japanese sedan I can think of — the new Maxima.
Maxima V6: 290 hp, 261 lb-ft of torque
G8 GT V8: 361 hp, 385 lb-ft of torque
And, of course, as the Nissan is a multi-valve, DOHC affair, that power shows up high in the rev range compared to the early and often torque bursts from the G8’s V8.
i.e. there is MUCH more motivating force from the 6.0-liter.
whatdoiknow1, it’s GM’s weak Pontiac brand (and the styling changes made to the car to fit it) and weak image overall dogging this car more than anything else.
The car isn’t slow selling because it’s an awful, slow, uncomfortable, impractical choice. Just the opposite. It is Australia’s number 1 family car and engineered to do it’s duty brilliantly, but unlike the FWD Japanese cars you listed this one also drives brilliantly. So much moreso in fact.
To me that’s worth it’s weight in gold and it’s something none of those cars come close to touching.
For people like you who don’t get cars like this, fear not, the Japanese already got your back. I appreciate GM getting mine.
I test-drove a V6 G8 recently. Generally, it feels like a proper driver’s car. Excellent fit and finish, a reclined seating position that reminded me of a friend’s E36 M3, and fairly weighty steering. Like a commenter above, I loved the leather. The wide A-pillar that some have complained about didn’t bother me. I couldn’t explore the handling with GM’s representative sitting next to me, but it seemed confidence-inspiring.
I did have a short list of negatives: the V6, while smooth through 3000 RPM and plenty authoritative, runs a bit rough in the upper reaches of the RPM range. It doesn’t seem to like being pushed. The 5-speed automatic was sluggish to change gears via paddle (the GT has a GM-sourced 6-speed that may be superior; this one is some sort of off-brand), and the turn signal sounds cheap and out of character with the rest of the car. Finally, the headrest protrudes forward quite a bit and isn’t adjustable, which may bother some people.
That said, the only factors that would stop me from buying one, especially at current fire-sale prices, are physical size and the lack of a 6MT. I’d still like an American version of the E46 M3 powered by the LS V8, so I’m holding out for a coupe version of this car.
If I recall correctly, the most recent 5-star vehicles have been the G8 and the Hyundai Genesis. Has the world gone wacky, or is there beginning to be a changing of the guard?
I’m surprised nobody’s blamed it on the LHC yet. For all we know, the planet was sucked into a black hole and spit out into Bizarro world.
geozinger:
Older Golfs were built in Mexico, but the new Rabbit is built in Germany and I belive the new Jetta is as well. So the Euro exchange rate idea still holds.
I had this car as a rental for a week of travel. It is the 1st American, well American badged car that I would be proud to own and drive. It was awesome. The vehicle I had wasn’t nice on the inside as what the writer had, but it has potential. I would buy this over a 5 series.
Actually, I think the world’s gone wacky – no way GM would purposefully build a great car – even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.
Not true. If it’s big, flashy and/or fast, GM can–and often does–build a very good car. They’ve been unreliable in the past, but their actual performance hasn’t been too bad. Usually. At least with the Corvette.
When they don’t do well is when the car is small, slow and/or unexciting, then you can tell their heart isn’t in it. And that’s the problem: GM wants to be (and acts like) a boutique coachbuilder, but their cost structure is geared to that of a company with 40% marketshare.
If they’re not careful, they’ll be reduced to boutique status shortly.
As for this car: I like it in concept. It’s not my thing, and I don’t like the hood scoops at all, but it’s a solid design. The Commodores and their derivatives have always been good performers, but GM’s product planners have never figured out how to sell them here. Of course, GM product planners couldn’t sell free gold bullion.
But even with only two, the G8 GT is the best
AmericanAustralian car I’ve ever driven. Color me smitten.If you love this car, jump on a plane and go drive the Falcon.
I love the exterior of the car, but the interior…meh, not so much. Pontiac might call it black, but the various plastic bits are actually shades of dark grays and black (not to mention consisting of too many different textures). Though the vehicle is a Holden, I fear that the interior has some G6 cross-breeding. The seat fabric, the carpeting, the map-traps on the seat backs…they all remind me of the G6 sitting in my garage; they’re not necessarily bad things, but they should have been upgraded on a $32K sedan (especially since my V6 G6 was $13K).
That said, I still want one…maybe all that money I pulled out of WaMu on Monday should go towards a down payment. First things first though: I must get the wifey a little drunk…