By on June 17, 2022

Two Illinois men are dead after a high-speed crash near Norwood, Colorado.

The men appear to have been participants in the Crown Rally.

The car they were in is almost unrecognizable — it appears it might be a Porsche 911 Turbo S — because they went off at 140 mph or higher.

After calling it “one of the most horrific traffic accidents responding deputies have ever seen,” San Miguel County Sheriff Bill Masters added this: “I am terribly sorry these two men were killed in what was a preventible [sic] accident. And I don’t appreciate what amounts to reckless and intentional disregard for the people of our county. They could have killed an innocent motorist. Crown Rally needs to re-think what they’re doing out on the roads”.

The crash occurred about 15 miles northwest of Norwood, on state highway 141.

Crown Rally put out this statement on Facebook: “We are deeply saddened to learn of the loss of two members of our rally family who passed away yesterday in a single car incident. Larry and Mike have touched so many lives in and outside of the car community, and we will miss them dearly. Our sincere condolences go out to their families and friends.”

I wasn’t able to find the last names for Larry and Mike as I poked around the various Crown Rally pages. We’ll update should we receive that information.

Crown Rally is a non-profit organization that says it was “created to connect car enthusiasts with opportunities to give back to the community.”

This is where I disclose that over a decade ago, I participated in the Fireball Run road rally. So I might not be the best person to chide Crown Rally organizers — though I remember the Fireball officials doing their best to keep our speeds on public roads from being too insane. They didn’t always succeed, though I don’t recall ever going that deep into triple-digit territory.

Still, perhaps these road rallies need to re-think their approach. Crown Rally appears to be raising money for a worthy cause or causes, so that’s nice, but it doesn’t change the fact that when a lot of people with a lot of money gather their high-performance rides for these rallies, there are always those who give into temptation and let their ego get the best of their common sense. And that’s assuming Crown Rally organizers worked to keep speeds appropriate. It’s possible they didn’t, though we have no evidence either way.

I don’t think road rallies should be banned. But if they are to continue, and continue using public roads, they must keep the speeds sane. Save the hairy stuff for the track, ladies and gents.

[Image: Screenshot from Crown Rally Web site]

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52 Comments on “Horrific Colorado Crash Leads to Questions About Road Rallies...”


  • avatar
    EBFlex

    Time to ban automobiles. That’s the only way to stop this epidemic.

    • 0 avatar
      kjhkjlhkjhkljh kljhjkhjklhkjh

      Cars kill more people than guns, so yes.

      Ban the cars is a good idea, saves 1/4 a trillion $
      also frees America from the clutches of hostile foreign oil
      also improves pollution across the entire US, saving more lives.
      lowers income:debt for all Americans …

      Overview. A total of 38,824 people died in motor vehicle crashes in 2020. The U.S. Department of Transportation’s most recent estimate of the annual economic cost of crashes is $242 billion. Contributing to the death toll are alcohol, speeding, lack of seat belt use and other problematic behaviors.

      VS

      gunviolencearchive.org

      • 0 avatar
        RHD

        Guns don’t kill people. Bullets kill people.

      • 0 avatar
        Mike Beranek

        Cars are transportation devices that can be used to kill people.
        A chef’s knife is a cooking device that can be used to kill people.
        A hammer is a construction device that can be used to kill people.
        A baseball bat is a sports device that can be used to kill people.
        An assault rifle is a military-grade killing device, plain and simple. It was not designed or manufactured for any other purpose.
        See, I can use just about anything to kill someone. A toothbrush. A pencil. A chain. A tree limb that fell on the ground.
        Civilian arms, like pistols, hunting rifles, shotguns, etc? That’s fine.
        If I can’t buy an F-16, why can I buy an AR-15? If I can’t buy an M1 Abrahms, why can I buy armor-piercing rounds?
        If someone is a constitutional originalist, shouldn’t they believe that the founding fathers meant muzzle-loaders only when they wrote the second amendment? Since no other kind of firearm existed at the time?

        • 0 avatar
          EBFlex

          “ If I can’t buy an F-16, why can I buy an AR-15? If I can’t buy an M1 Abrahms, why can I buy armor-piercing rounds?
          If someone is a constitutional originalist, shouldn’t they believe that the founding fathers meant muzzle-loaders only when they wrote the second amendment? Since no other kind of firearm existed at the time?”

          Lolololololol!!!!!

          Literally pretzel logic

          • 0 avatar
            conundrum

            Yes, Mr Bighead Pontificus Ignoramus, sir. First rule of being a troll such as yourself Mr EBigheadFlex, sir, is to accuse your perceived opponent of that which you are guilty of. Makes the ego all snugly-poo inside, right?

            Get a life, you dolt.

          • 0 avatar

            No, if Alito can use 16th century “scholars” to strip a woman’s rights, then the 2A only applies to muzzle loaders….you either believe in strict construction or you don’t.

    • 0 avatar
      Ol Shel

      WRONG.

      WHat we need is for everyone to go 140mph. The only way we’ll all be safe is if we’re all in danger… and the Republicans take millions in bribes from the fast car lobby.

  • avatar
    dal20402

    I’m very sorry for their families’ losses.

    There should be a statute making clear that the organizers of organized events taking place on public roads may be liable for the actions of participants unless the event has and enforces policies imposing consequences on the participants if they engage in reckless driving. Knowing that they would be banned for life from future such events would help encourage participants not to do things like this.

    • 0 avatar
      EBFlex

      Yes because god forbid we exercise an ounce of personal responsibility.

      It’s gotta be someone else’s fault. Not the person driving and in control of the vehicle.

      It’s literally the idiotic gun argument applied to cars. Unbelievable

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        40,000 dead people a year show that expecting people to exercise personal responsibility on the roads has failed abjectly.

        • 0 avatar
          ScarecrowRepair

          Au contraire! Only 40K dead seems like an extraordinary success. How many cars do you see on your daily commute? How many accidents? A pretty low rate by any measure. And yet we drive at freeway speeds, separated sideways by just a few feet, and some on roads without a central divider.

          40K dead is 200 a week. If California has 15% of the drivers, that’s 30 a week in all of California. If all those happen on work days, that’s 6 a day. Considering how many thousands of other cars we see every day, and so many drivers doing stupid things with phones, that’s incredibly low.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            The rate of death from cars in the US is 6x that of Norway or Switzerland, about 3.5x that of Germany (with unrestricted Autobahn!), 3x that of Japan, and over twice that of similarly sprawling Canada and notoriously reckless Italy.. It’s even higher than Russia, a country notorious for dashcam videos of people driving on the wrong side of the road. The excess deaths are even more tragic because they are completely pointless and unneeded, and their message is that we handle traffic safety horribly in this country.

          • 0 avatar
            stuki

            “The rate of death from cars in the US is 6x that of Norway or Switzerland, about 3.5x that of Germany (with unrestricted Autobahn!), 3x that of Japan, and over twice that of similarly sprawling Canada and notoriously reckless Italy..”

            How does that compare to amount of automotive fuel burned per person in the US vs those other countries?

            Fuel burn being a decent measure for taking into account miles driven, size of vehicle and speed.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            But the fact that we drive so many miles, and do it in elephantine vehicles that are not subject to modern pedestrian/cyclist safety standards, is part of why the rate is what it is. (Incredibly lax and steadily weakening enforcement of traffic rules is IMO the other part.)

            With that said, if you look at deaths per mile rather than deaths per human (which IMO is a much better measure of how dangerous cars actuallly are in a given place), we’re about 2.5x Norway or Switzerland, 1.6x Germany, 1.4x Canada, and 1.2x Japan.

          • 0 avatar
            stuki

            Compared to at least Japan, maybe not so much Germany, “we” drive faster, though. Almost have to, since America is so much more spread out. But as bad as “we” are, we may well do so on average more sober, compared to those guys…..

            As for the pointless overgrown-ness of “our” vehicles of choice: If “we” ditched speed limits on fast moving interurban freeways, as well as on roads out in the middle of nowhere, more people would buy German-style cars here as well. As it is, when max speed even for Ferraris, are limited to whatever some planner feels is safe and prudent for a diesel dually, or Sprinter van in a crosswind, there is precious little incentive to opt for dynamically less compromised vehicles, even if you don’t need the space.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “ Considering how many thousands of other cars we see every day, and so many drivers doing stupid things with phones, that’s incredibly low.”

            Exactly. Context is such a wonderful thing.

            But, if you purposely ignore context, it makes for really neat headlines full of shock value.

            Similar when they try and justify our grossly high gas prices by saying “bUt NoRwAy Is HiGhEr”. True, and when we were under $2/gallon Norway was ~$6.50/gallon. Argument decimated.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            The context is that six times as many people die on our roads as happens in countries with proper road safety, and there is zero reason whatsoever for those deaths except that we are far too deferential to people who think their commute is the right time to catch up on email, people who think their grocery getter needs to ride on 40” tires, and people who think 120 mph is the right speed for a crowded suburban freeway.

            I’ve lived in Switzerland. It’s a wonderful place. Having to pay attention when you drive and follow the traffic laws on pain of four-figure fines doesn’t make it any less wonderful.

          • 0 avatar
            Jeff S

            @dal20402–Agree with you in that we don’t need vehicles that go 120 mph for grocery getters or soccer moms. As for speed limits in crowded urban areas with high traffic 55 or 60 mph is sufficient for interstates and freeways in rural interstate 70 to 75 mph is enough. In parts of West Texas or Nevada where there is little to no traffic 100 mph is safe with good tires and a reliable and safe vehicle. It is not safe in crowded urban areas to drive fast and reckless. Most vehicles are speed limited because most tires are not made for speeds above 120 mph. I don’t believe having race rallies on public roads should be allowed because of public safety and if they are allowed they are limited to roads that are closed off to the public during the time of the event. An experienced driver can have more fun driving a car that feels fast rather than a car that is fast. Part of the fun of driving is to feel engaged with the vehicle just going fast is not as lasting an experience. A good manual transmission sports car like a Miata or an old British sports car with an open top is much more engaging to drive than a over powered muscle car. The less electrical nannies and gadgets just the driver and the machine.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        Comparing guns to cars is silly in and of itself. But I suppose if you want to trivialize the risk of having lax gun laws, it makes perfect sense to compare them to other consumer goods that could *possibly* be used as weapons.

        • 0 avatar
          ScarecrowRepair

          What about that idiot who purposely drove into a crowd?

          Possibly my arse.

        • 0 avatar
          Art Vandelay

          Obtaining a driver’s licence should have the same difficulty and cost to include training, background checks and insurance that you propose for gun owners. It will be expensive to drive. Too bad.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            It already is expensive to drive.

            But I think that the gun/car license comparison is apt. If all you want to do is park your vehicle in your garage, then fine – it’s up to you if you want to license and insure it. But it you want it out on the road, you need to follow the licensing and insurance requirements. Same should be true of guns. If people just want to have guns in their home, then no licensing or competency tests needed. But if they want to carry in public, they need to be licensed, trained and insured.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            No, drivers aren’t trained near well enough in this country compared to most of our European neighbors. I’m talking something akin to Germany. Getting a driver’s licence is cheap and far too easy.

            Additionally all of these $#itboxes running around missing body panels and/or with their dash lit up with more warnings than the Apollo 13 Command Module need to be taken off the road.

        • 0 avatar
          EBFlex

          “Comparing guns to cars is silly in and of itself.”

          “But I think that the gun/car license comparison is apt.”

          Lol

        • 0 avatar
          Jeff S

          @FreedMike–The only comparison I see with guns and cars as both in the wrong hands can kill and injure but otherwise I agree. This is a way for some to deflect the real issues and when they cannot come up with a logical argument just say anything. These types of people think they are right 100% of the time and that you should just agree with them because they know everything.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            …or they just own a s**tload of stock in gun manufacturers, who are the ONLY winners in this whole mess.

          • 0 avatar
            Jeff S

            Also the politicians who get paid to vote in favor of the gun lobbyist. The more shootings the more gun sales. Maybe that’s the alternative to birth control but then that’s terrible to think that way but I do.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “ Maybe that’s the alternative to birth control but then that’s terrible to think that way but I do.”

            Wait we are taking about abortion?

          • 0 avatar
            Jeff S

            Well I am talking about those who want to out law abortions and some birth control have no issues with guns being used to kill children. This is more than a Second Amendment issue when you consider the influence the gun lobbyists have on the politicians. Money talks and for many of these politicians it is more important than human life especially when it comes to getting re-elected and having a campaign paid for. We have the best Government money can buy.

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    “This, but that. Although, the other. Possibly.”

    Step 1) Formulate your opinion
    Step 2) State your opinion

    2 comes after 1. 1 requires work between your ears.

  • avatar
    dukeisduke

    I’ve heard of a lot of rallies, but I’d never heard of these until I saw the news story on the MSN feed this morning. Looking at their Web site, this is like an expensive country club, with wealthy people driving supercars from one five-star hotel to another. The entry fee is $4,950, and you have to be invited:

    “Due to high demand, only returning teams and invited guests are eligible to signup. The cost to enter is $4,950 / team which includes accomodations for a driver, co-driver, and one (1) vehicle.”

  • avatar
    kcflyer

    Wait, were these assault automobiles? With high capacity seating? Automatic transmissions? Were they painted a scary color? They must be banned!

  • avatar
    EBFlex

    Think of the children!!!

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    This could have been far, far worse. And this event, like most others of its’ type, included a track day where these two guys could have opened up their car safely (or at least without endangering the general public), so hooning it up on public roads just made that much less sense.

    Be careful out there.

  • avatar
    nsk

    Crashes like this are inevitable in any event that draws together a bunch of guys with exotic cars on public roads.

    The organizers can talk about a charity component or camaraderie or whatever, but ultimately these events are peacock festivals for guys who 1) have the means and vanity to purchase an exotic car, 2) want to actually drive the car, and 3) aren’t interested in track days.

    • 0 avatar
      jalop1991

      “Crashes like this are inevitable in any event that draws together a bunch of guys with exotic cars on public roads.”

      It doesn’t take being at an “event” or even a “bunch of guys” with exotic cars on public roads. Sometimes it’s just two guys, not even in the event yet:

      “On November 30, 2013, at about 3:30 p.m. PST, Walker, 40, and Roger Rodas, 38, left an event for Walker’s charity Reach Out Worldwide for victims of Typhoon Haiyan,[57] with Rodas driving his 2005 Porsche Carrera GT.[58] Traveling between 80 mph (130 km/h) and 93 mph (150 km/h) in a 45 mph (72 km/h) speed zone on Hercules Street in Valencia, a neighborhood of Santa Clarita, California, the car crashed into a concrete lamp post and two trees, catching fire.[57][59] Rodas died of multiple trauma while Walker died from the combined effects of trauma and burns. Both of their bodies were burned beyond recognition.[58]”

      When money outruns brains.

  • avatar
    Arthur Dailey

    Tim wrote: “I participated in the Fireball Run road rally. So I might not be the best person to chide Crown Rally organizers — though I remember the Fireball officials doing their best to keep our speeds on public roads from being too insane. They didn’t always succeed, though I don’t recall ever going that deep into triple-digit territory.” In other words admitting that he and other participants broke the laws of the road. So there are a few possible solutions. 1) Staging points. Any driver/vehicle whose elapsed time between points demonstrates that they exceeded posted speeds should be removed from the rally and possibly fined. We used to stage rallies in high school and used this system. 2) Police escorts. In front of the rally. Any vehicle that passes the escort gets fined/charged. 3) Speed cameras along the route. 4) Charging the organizers.

  • avatar
    Art Vandelay

    Take this mess to the track or a closed course.

    • 0 avatar
      Jeff S

      Agree this should not be on public roads. A race track or a closed course would not endanger the public. There is enough danger with inattentive drivers, drunk and drivers that are on drugs, and idiots that weave in and out of traffic without using turn signals.

      • 0 avatar

        Public roads are more dangerous. On track, I know the other guy is trying to beat me, and his car may break unexpectedly (Lemons). OTOH, there are no potholes, cops, deer, or minivan drivers watching tiktok vids.

        I feel safer braking into turn one from triple digits on track than I do rolling down the Taconic Parkway at 81 mph with a cluster of vehicles, no roll cage or runoff room. Spending time on a track has taught me a lot and definitely pulled 90% of my hoon activity on public roads.

        The most important rule if you are making time on public roads is to never drive in such a way that others must react to your driving….also never pass clumps at a speed differential that will wake the minivan driver.

        Is the rally to blame ? Probably not, just morons showing off their alleged manhood to tragic result.

  • avatar
    JD-Shifty

    “Think of the children!!!”

    I decided long ago no amount of school shootings will ever have any effect on my personal gun fetish. derp

  • avatar
    7402

    Rally on public roads? Run a Time-Speed-Diatance (TSD) rally. Every section has a checkpoint (or more) at unknown locations. The time you pass each checkpoint is noted. You are docked one point for each second over or under the precise time your car should pass. Times are based on legal speeds. This requires that the navigator be able to do math (some rallies allow calculators). This is a cooperative exercise that involves the use of a car over unknown territory within a specified time frame. There are rallies where winners are docked points in single digits, over many segments covering many hours of driving, meaning they are that precise over long, unfamiliar courses.

    The problem with rallies like the one above is that there is way too much wink, wink, nudge, nudge between the organizers and participants. The cars offer too much temptation to use their power and the drivers are too immature or self-important to imagine that they won’t get away with violating rules or that the car is beyond their skill level.

    If you can find a TSD rally, I highly recommend trying one. You don’t need a fast car—your commuter will do.

    • 0 avatar
      Jeff S

      I want to know when these idiots are on the road and where they will be so that I will not be a victim of their narcissism and idiocy. Innocent bystandards can be killed or harmed. No problem if they kill themselves they will be candidates for the Darwin Award but usually the innocent get harmed.

      • 0 avatar
        Yankee

        @Jeff S: Exactly what I was thinking. I hate to be so crass, but I can’t help feeling a note of justice in their deaths. Anyone who drives that fast on a public road obviously has no concern with anyone else’s safety and is only concerned with their own thrill-seeking. Good riddance, I say. The world just lost two more assholes.

    • 0 avatar
      DenverMike

      Yeah right, not happening. They know you’re going to stop between checkpoints plus held up by traffic and whatnot.

    • 0 avatar
      sgeffe

      There’s one called “The Great Race” which makes a stop in my town this evening. Antique, as in Model-As and the like, driving from Rhode Island westward, then they make a northwesterly turn within the next couple days, ending up in Brainerd, MN, this weekend — they started this past Saturday or Sunday.

      Apparently, the drivers are penalized for arriving at checkpoints in elapsed times which would put them in excess of any posted speed limits. No computers or GPS devices allowed (didn’t see if cell phones were completely verboten), and even the odometers in the cars are covered with tape! Most of the race is an endurance exercise for man AND machine. Cars must be older than the 1974 model year, apparently.

  • avatar
    indi500fan

    I checked out the one guy’s IG page.
    Ran a place called “Black Star Motorsports” north suburb of Chicago.

    He had “MOVE OVER — ON THE RUN” lettered mirror image on the front of the car.

  • avatar
    sgeffe

    Derek Bieri, proprietor of the “Vice Grip Garage” YouTube channel, and his family participate in the “Hot Rod Power Tour” and a couple other “drag ‘n drive” events each year, and they all seem to keep within the lines. A few of the Wichita, KN YouTubers participate in rallies like the one here occasionally, and aside from brief excursions into the triple-digits, everyone seems to be reasonably well-behaved, and although they do draw the attention of the constabulary occasionally, a ticket and a wrist-slap is usually all that’s needed.

    It seems like egregious $4it like what killed these two idiots is the exception rather than the rule at these rallies. These two let their egos write a check the car couldn’t cash.

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