By on November 2, 2021

Toyota Motor North America has already voiced its opposition to the proposed EV tax credit scheme tied to the the Democrats’ latest spending bill. This week, it has decided to expand its message by purchasing advertisements in national publications.

Starting Tuesday, Toyota will be launching an ad campaign intended to help bring Americans toward its side of the fence. While the automaker isn’t intrinsically offended by the government-backed incentivizing of electric vehicles, it has taken umbrage with the Biden administration’s insistence that consumers be issued an additional $4,500 incentive for purchasing union-made products. Though the reasoning should be obvious, since the company doesn’t have any unionized facilities in the U.S., the automaker is seeing growing support as the related legislation is stalled on Capitol Hill. 

While the Build Back Better Act is concerned with subsidized childcare, tweaking healthcare, and rejiggering a few tax codes, it’s primary goals revolve around setting aside hundreds of billions for climate initiatives. The latter aspect has also been the one feature that’s been the least subject to change as the bill has been tailored in the hope to get more congressional support. The climate agenda is obviously important to the Biden administration and the proposals piggyback on an earlier White House promise to transition the entire federal fleet to EV — that plan currently seems to be having trouble getting off the ground, however.

The Build Back Better legislation intends boost consumer tax credits to as much as $12,500 for EVs assembled in a factory represented by a labor union with batteries produced inside the United States. Anything else will fall short of the maximum by at least a few grand.

Toyota has found this to be unfair and completely counter to the United States government encouraging a free market. In the advertisements spread across outlets like the Wall Street Journal and New York Times, the automaker requests that Congress “put politics aside” and ensure EV tax credits are applied equally.

“What does this say to the American autoworker who has decided not to join a union? It says that their work is worth $4,500 less because they made that choice,” asks the ad. “What does this say to the American consumer? It says that if they want to buy an electric vehicle not made by Ford, General Motors or Chrysler, they will have to pay an extra $4,500 — which is about $100 more per month over a four-year period.”

According to Automotive News, Toyota is already seeing a coalition of supporters forming. This includes, but is not limited to, the American International Automobile Dealers Association (AIADA) — representing over 9,000 internationally branded dealerships located in the United States. Last week, they called the proposed EV framework “discriminatory.” It then issued a formal letter asking the White House and Congress to “”to stop playing politics with car sales and start working for all Americans — not just those who pay union dues.”

“The inclusion of this $4,500 UAW-only tax credit is an insult to the 673,000 Americans who work in international nameplate manufacturing plants and dealerships,” AIADA’s CEO Cody Lusk elaborated. “Far from ‘Building Back Better,’ this provision makes it more difficult for Americans to buy green vehicles, as it can only be applied to a handful of the more than 60 electric vehicles available for sale today.”

From AN:

Toyota’s advertisement comes as opposition to the proposed EV tax credit multiplies, with other international automakers, Republican governors from auto states, Canada and Mexico criticizing the proposal.

A group of 25 ambassadors to Washington also questioned the proposal in a letter sent Friday, Oct. 29, to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Minority Leader Kevin McCarty, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.

The ambassadors, who represent Germany, Japan, France, South Korea, Italy, the European Union and other countries, said the legislation “if implemented, would violate international trade rules, disadvantage hard-working Americans employed by these automakers and undermine the efforts of these automakers to expand the U.S. EV consumer market to achieve the administration’s climate goals.”

Autos Drive America, a group that represents the U.S. operations of international automakers, including Toyota, said the ambassadors’ letter “should make the administration and Congress realize that this is just bad policy.”

“It discriminates against American workers, undermines global climate change goals and threatens our relationships with our trading partners,” Jennifer Safavian, CEO of Autos Drive America, said in a statement. “Tax incentives should be fair and equal for all EVs.”

Sen. Debbie Stabenow (D-MI) has backed the bill’s pro-union aspects since before its inception and has said it would encourage the security of well-paid Michigan jobs. Considering EV proliferation will ultimately shrink the number of automotive-related manufacturing positions, her claims seem worthy of some criticism. However the majority of union-backed facilities exist in the Midwest, so she’s not altogether wrong in suggesting it could help keep keep in industry confined to her state.

UAW President Ray Curry has similarly praised the Biden administration, stating that the proposed EV tax credit would be a “win for auto manufacturing workers.”

The matter is literally split along partisan lines. Staunch Democrats and union groups are backing the plan as is. Republicans and automakers feeling they’ll be getting less free money from the government are largely opposed, citing the matter as unfair. Basically, everyone wants the taxpayer cash and is going to be upset if they’re left with a smaller slice of the pie.

Our take? The sale of electric vehicles had been heavily incentivized by the U.S. government for over a decade before Build Back Better came into being. Meanwhile, internal combustion vehicles continue to be hamstrung by evolving regulatory penalties (from around the world) that are supposedly beneficial for the environment. While some of those efforts undoubtedly hold merit, the outcomes don’t always result in lessened pollution without a robust and reliable national energy plan. China is also now responsible for a quarter of the world’s greenhouse gas emissions and benefits immeasurably from the increased sale of battery powered automobiles. A lot of the proposals likewise seem to be more about helping select industry actors and political allies than cleaning up the atmosphere. All told, it makes one wonder at the true efficacy of such proposals and why EVs have not yet been able (or even asked) to stand on their own.

[Image: Imagenet/Shutterstock]

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74 Comments on “Unfair? Toyota Launches Ad Campaign Opposing EV Tax Credit Scheme...”


  • avatar
    CKNSLS Sierra SLT

    If the current administration wants a “Green” (allegedly) fleet then tax credits should apply equally no matter what badge is on the hood. IMHO.

    • 0 avatar
      stuki

      “If the current administration wants a “Green” (allegedly) fleet then tax credits should apply equally no matter what badge is on the hood.”

      That’s not what they want, though.

      Like every other totalitarian banana republic junta, what they want is to hand money to friends of theirs who are too incompetent to compete in the real world. Money stolen from the ever dwindling portion of Americans who aren’t quite so incompetent and uncompetitive, of course. Until the added cost of supporting the connected riffraff with handouts, render those Ameicans unable to compete as well….

      That’s it. The rest is just Newspeak, and childbrained attempts to cover the theft up. Seems to work perfectly well on the children, though. Unfortunately for the rest of us.

  • avatar
    ajla

    With a $12,500 tax incentive in place I’d probably get an EV for my next vehicle. Without that, my next vehicle will probably get 19MPG. So I can see the idea of bringing some of those EV sales forward.

  • avatar
    Lie2me

    Just sayin’, Toyota…

    “The three U.S.-owned automakers joined forces and took their competition with the Japanese into new territory last week, filing an “anti-dumping” complaint against minivans imported by Toyota Motor Corp.”

    https://www.tampabay.com/archive/1991/06/03/japanese-accused-of-dumping-minivans-in-u-s/

  • avatar
    probert

    Toyota seems upset at everything from fuel regulations, the pace of EV development, and now extra incentives for Union manufacturers. All this and not one EV in production. If they’re so unhappy, maybe they should find another country that is both a major market, and has cheap labor vie it’s own little developing nation we call the South.

    • 0 avatar
      3800FAN

      Ok buy a uaw made electric car and see how you like it. Its a chevy bolt (only uaw made electric) and gm sent letters to owners not to park 50′ of other cars due to fire risk.

    • 0 avatar
      tomLU86

      Toyota is correct.

      EVs should not be subsidized in the first place.

      Why should union-sourced EVs get a tax subsidy?

      If people want electric cars, let them buy Teslas or Bolts. If they (really) want to save the planet, let them buy Priuses (Prii?)

      The Detroit carmakers, GM especially, talk ‘electric’ on the one hand, and live off big trucks that get 12-15mpg in mixed driving. My Colorado gets all of 18mpg in mixed suburban driving.

      I don’t have a problem with unions. In many cases, we need more. In others, like the transplants, the unions have not been able to make a case for themselves.

      The UAW is a business run for the benefit of the top union officials, under the guise of “helping the rank and file”.

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      And we’d like to formally welcome Virginia back into the fold. Brandon is doing a bang up job!

      This union handout is DOA. He will be lucky to pass anything at this point, let alone some poison pill nonsense like this.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Interesting turn of events, it is not? I just said last night, if they (Brandon’s handlers) were smart they’d let VA play out without much interference and it seems they did. I wonder if there is a way to get the numbers if mail fraud is excluded, how much more (or less) did Youngkin win by?

        Also, I question how did McAuliffe get the nod in the first place? Was there really no one better than an ex governor Clinton crony and general jackass? Looks like he had some remorse over leaving in Jan 2018 and wanted back in:

        “After the 2016 presidential election, McAuliffe was viewed as a potential candidate for the Democratic nomination for president in 2020.[128][129] In 2017, McAuliffe’s confidantes told The Hill he was “seriously considering a 2020 presidential run.”[130] In April 2019, McAuliffe announced that he would not pursue the presidency in 2020 and would focus on supporting Democrats in the 2019 Virginia elections.[131]”

        “McAuliffe initially called for Governor Ralph Northam to resign in 2019 after a photo on his 1984 medical-school yearbook page showed a photo of a man in blackface; Northam issued an apology, and McAuliffe later dropped calls for Northam’s resignation.[133][134] McAuliffe called for Lieutenant Governor Justin Fairfax’s resignation following several allegations of sexual assault against Fairfax came-to-light in 2019; Fairfax called him a “racist” for supporting his accusers.[135][136][137] Later, while running against McAuliffe in Virginia’s 2021 Democratic gubernatorial primary, Fairfax compared his treatment from McAuliffe to the murders of George Floyd and Emmett Till.[138][139][140] Fairfax’s comments were condemned by leaders of the Virginia Legislative Black Caucus, which had also called for Fairfax’s resignation.[139][141][142] Democrat Doug Wilder, who served as Virginia’s first Black governor, criticized McAuliffe, arguing that he acted inconsistently on race issues,[143] Wilder also said that McAuliffe pushed aside Black politicians.[143]”

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_McAuliffe

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          I’m actually calling the loss as total, complete election fraud. The Chinese clearly used their special Jedi Mind Trick skills to reprogram the voting machines. Proof? I’ll release it next Tuesday at my convention, to be held in Blue Ball, Pennsylvania. My experts is Sybil the Soothsayer!

          Where’s Blue Ball? Same road as Intercourse and Paradise. No puns intended, folks!

          Tickets are on sale now – only $15.99 to get in!

          Sincerely,
          FreedMike, aka My Pillow Guy’s Slightly-Left-Of-Center Evil Twin

          • 0 avatar
            Felix Hoenikker

            Perfect response!I love it.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “Blue Ball is an unincorporated community and census-designated place in East Earl Township, Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, United States. Blue Ball lies approximately 2 miles east-northeast of the borough of New Holland at the intersection of US 322 and PA Route 23. As of the 2010 census the population was 1,031.”

  • avatar
    mpalczew

    If we want to get more electric car adoption, we should incentivize installing charging stations in apartment parking lots, condos, street side, and wherever. We should standardize the charging standard so that any car can charge at any charger. There’s more connectors for cars then there are for phones these days.

    Right now, unless you own your own home, electric cars are non starters for many people.

    If we really want incentives for electric cars, it should only apply to affordable ones. I say this as someone who would buy an expensive one, I don’t need a tax credit, I’ll be buying an electric car (or not) based on preference.

    The union thing is not about the environment.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      Geez its been incentivized on the American taxpayers’s dime for over 10 years and couldn’t crack 2.5% market share, the majority of which was just Tesla. I’m sure more corporate welfare is the answer for a niche product few actually buy. If you want to turn the welfare spigot at something, maybe it should be EV in actual use cases, such as commercial vehicles or mass transit?

  • avatar
    mpalczew

    If we want to get more electric car adoption, we should incentivize installing charging stations in apartment parking lots, condos, street side, and wherever. We should standardize the charging standard so that any car can charge at any charger. There’s more connectors for cars then there are for phones these days.

    Right now, unless you own your own home, electric cars are non starters for many people.

    If we really want incentives for electric cars, it should only apply to affordable ones. I say this as someone who would buy an expensive one, I don’t need a tax credit, I’ll be buying an electric car (or not) based on preference.

    The union thing is not about the environment.

  • avatar
    pmirp1

    More than anything this tax incentive for lazy unionized employers is a slap against Tesla. Without Tesla there be no electric car industry. GM stopped making electrics, remember EV1? Tax incentive should be for everyone or no one. Sleeping Joe Biden is confused and lost. Great job Toyota.

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    I agree with Toyota here – an extra incentive for a car that’s union-built is unfair, and it’s an obvious political ploy. Unions would be better off in the long run selling themselves on their benefits to members, versus using their legalized payola cut themselves deals.

    (If anything, this makes the “campaign finance reform now” argument that much stronger – stuff like this happens because interest groups – unions, oil companies, trade groups, you name it – pay off politicians to make it happen.)

    I would definitely buy into an extra tax incentive for a vehicle that has more US-sourced componentry, though. And I bet Toyota would as well.

  • avatar
    jpolicke

    Green New Deal AKA Build Back Better wants to punish American workers for voting against the UAW. Sounds like democracy to me. FJB.

  • avatar
    3800FAN

    Gm doesnt want to build electrics. Thats why they buried the volt and voltech powertrain while toyota honda FORD hyundai etc expanded their hybrid powertrains theoughout their lineup. Gm only wants to make pushrod v8 suvs and trucks. Theyre gms bread and butter. Is biden gonna give gm and the uaw another bailout after they go bankrupt for failing to meet democratic govt mandates? The uaw guys on the factory floor know theyre fucked with these ev mandates.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I disagree, GM historically falls in line with the political situation it finds itself in to its detriment. How many *tens of billions* were dumped into Volt/Voltec and then literally abandoned in under ten years?

  • avatar
    3800FAN

    Since the japanese started building plants in the us in the 80s the uaw has tried and failed to unionize them multiple times. Toyota honda nissan hyundai kia mercedes bmw vw all have us plants all have rejected the uaw, some multiple times. What does that say? It says unions arent worth it.

    Oh wait there was nummi, mazda flat rock, and dsm that were uaw…cuz they were backed by the big 3. Nummi is now tesla, flat rock is ford, dsm is the rivian plant.

  • avatar
    3800FAN

    The future of EVs is gonna be extended range hybrid electrics like the prius prime. Thats the only way the roads and electeic infrasteucture will be able to support them and still allow them to be affordable to everyone. 90% of americans cant afford a tesla model 3. GM had this vehicle, the chevy volt. What did they do? They didnt market it, shrugged when it didnt sell and killed it so they could invest in their v8 trucks and suvs. And this is the company biden wants to lead the ev revolution? Total joke. They shoulda let gm dissolve in 2009.

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    No matter where you come down on this, you have to admit that Biden, Schumer and Pelosi are just masterful at getting legislation passed.

  • avatar
    3800FAN

    This incentive shows how clueless and out of touch the democrats in dc are with americans. The irony is democrats dont drive uaw built cars and havnt since their products went to shit in the 70s. Theyre smart educated people who read consumer reports and vote with their wallet, not on weather or not the car was union made.

  • avatar
    3800FAN

    Looking at the bolt the next gen of gm electrics will make us wish for a chevy citation. Did citation owners houses burn down when parked in the garage? Did they get letters from gm telling them not to park 50′ from another vehicle? Gm electrics are gonna bomb on the market no matter how goood the incentives are.

  • avatar
    Master Baiter

    Let’s go Brandon!

  • avatar

    Toyota do not understand that unions cost money and it is only fair that Biden compensates the Big 3 for that. We want fair competition don’t we? No one prevents Toyota from unionizing and getting same privileges from Biden.

    • 0 avatar
      3800FAN

      Toyota workers have voted no on the uaw multiple times. Union work rules stifel the japanese kaizen manufacturing system they use and workers dont want to be told by some shop steward you cant use, or do, this or that cuz thats anothet guys other guys job. Read A Savage Factory and youll see what its like to work in a uaw factory. Transplant autoworkers dont want thet.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        Same for VW. The sense I get is that conditions in the “transplant” factories are good enough that the workers don’t feel the need to be unionized.

        • 0 avatar

          I have always kind of figured the transplant factories live in a bit of fear of the UAW so they keep the workers close enough to UAW compensation to prevent them from joining. In effect the UAW is working there just not directly.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Good point. But the “competitive wage” thing only goes so far – it’s not like someone working in the VW plant in Chattanooga, Tennessee is going to be lured up to Detroit to work for the D3.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        ,”Union work rules stifel the japanese kaizen manufacturing system”

        Every manufacturer uses some variation of that system.

        Workers are just biological robots. How flexible do they need to be?

  • avatar
    Lightspeed

    I worked at a job as a union member, then they took away mine and my colleagues union status and transferred us to a division under management by people not trained in our area of expertise…I don’t work there anymore.

  • avatar
    Flipper35

    Workers can do collective bargaining without a union. A union as they are now is a body hired to to that bargaining for you.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      Organizing a union is no mean feat, though.

      On the other hand, maybe organizing new unions would be a way to force the existing ones to clean up their acts.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      “Workers can do collective bargaining without a union”

      Ok. How are they going to do that?

      How do they pick the people to organize the bargaining?

      What’s the process used to decide on bargaining issues?

      How do they prioritize bargaining issues?

      How do they sort out or establish a “pecking order” amoung workers?

      How do they afford to hire consultants and lawyers to help with negotiations?

      “Union – a club, society, or association formed by people with a common interest or purpose”

      I played rugby in a rugby union. People bank with credit unions. Marriage is a union.

      So… if you get an organized group together and call it something else then it’s okay?

  • avatar
    VWGolfGuy

    GM has, until very recently, been the only domestic that put development into ev at all. GM still offers the Bolt and has expanded the model into a cuv offering, at price significantly lowers than Model 3 and with relatively competitive range.

    • 0 avatar
      3800FAN

      The Bolt is an OLD electric sonic that catches on fire. Wheres rhe machE competitor?Meanwhile gm HAD annamazing plug in hybrid, the volt that they buried so they could put $$$ into their trucks and suvs. Toyota honda hyundai and FORD have hybrids that theyve expanded through their lineup. What did gm do? They gave the volt no markering and killed it. Did they expand the powertrain and release a volttech equinox or traverse hybrid? Nope while toyota sells more rav4 hybrds than they can make gm killed the voltech powerterain. Dont take gm seriously when they talk big about electrics.

      • 0 avatar
        Felix Hoenikker

        I’m now sort of retired as I have a 9 month a year seasonal job. I drive a 2014 Honda Accord that manages 20 mpg city and pushes 40 mpg highway for 7k miles per year. I would like to switch to a full BEV since most of my driving is local, but cannot find anything that will meet my $25k budget (sans subsidies). I have a two car garage so recharging is not an issue unless the car decides to break out in flames while recharging. I’m hoping the current administration can get a BEV on the market that meets my budget after subsidies whether union made or not.

  • avatar
    Flipper35

    It is hard to organize a union, but you don’t need one. You can sit down at the table as a group, or a few of the group selected to represent all the workers.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      But unless that group is a certified union the employer has no obligation to talk to it.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        “certified union”

        Who decides this?

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          Here’s the process:

          nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/employees/your-right-to-form-a-union

          I take it to mean the employees can form their own union and have the NLRB certify it, or they can have an existing union represent them.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            “If a majority of workers wants to form a union, they can select a union in one of two ways: If at least 30% of workers sign cards or a petition saying they want a union, the NLRB will conduct an election. If a majority of those who vote choose the union, the NLRB will certify the union as your representative for collective bargaining. An election is not the only way a union can become your representative. Your employer may voluntarily recognize a union based on evidence – typically signed union-authorization cards – that a majority of employees want it to represent them. ”

            I can’t see the latter being common but it sounds relatively straightforward.

  • avatar
    haze3

    The union clause has no place in an EV incentive.

    I’d buy a US-made clause, with scaling for US part content, b/c the benefit is being paid by the US gov’t, after all.

    This said, Toyota is playing a self-serving game. They are not yet competitive in the EV game, largely b/c they have been stubborn. The winds have been blowing to EV’s for years now, if you’re not ready, it’s on you.

  • avatar
    Rick T.

    Judging from the comments here, it looks like Biden has finally accomplished one of his election promises which is bring the country back together – at least on this issue. And not even the usual bitching at Matt. Oh yeah. Let’s Go Brandon!

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      “like Biden has finally accomplished one of his election promises which is bring the country back together”

      Hatred of him and his junta?

      Real approval likely 25-35%, Nixon’s was 24% when he resigned.

      https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/09/25/how-the-watergate-crisis-eroded-public-support-for-richard-nixon/

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        Well, if Biden’s predecessor is any gauge, a horrifyingly low approval rate no longer matters.

        Maybe he should try suggesting we ingest Lysol?

        • 0 avatar
          ToolGuy

          This is relatively interesting:
          https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/25/politics/joe-biden-donald-trump-gallup-poll/index.html

          This part is especially relatively interesting:
          “The real danger in Biden’s current approval rating doldrums is for his party’s candidates in the coming midterm election. If a president’s approval rating is under 50%, his party loses an average of 37 seats in the House. Average!”

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            A lot can happen between now and November, 2022.

            In any case, I think the electorate in general is simply pi**ed off, and that’s across all ideological wings. That leads to “throw the bums out” every two years. Problem is, the new bums have this disturbing habit of not being any better than the old ones. The new Democratic bums tend to be retreads of the old ones; the new GOP ones tend to be straight-up loons.

            It ain’t good.

          • 0 avatar
            CoastieLenn

            @Freed- I’ve thought about something interesting that will never fly in real life, but in hypothesis alone, it makes me wonder.

            What if…. and again, this will never fly, Article 2 of the constitution was amended to include “neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, but not exceeded the Age of sixty five Years…”

            If the Presidential office had a maximum age to run for office, it could help alleviate SOME of the “retread of previous” Presidents. Same concept should be applied to the House and Senate. Keeps out the old, tired, and mentally questionable, while ensuring SOME semblance of new ideas and ideologies keep cycling thru.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            @Toolguy

            I won’t comment on a year from now yet but the fact State Media is parroting facts such as those suggests to me they are getting ready to either dump Biden and/or Harris OR they are slowly bracing the zombies for the unexpected and then will lay all of the problems at his feet – he becomes the fall guy for everything due to his ongoing low popularity. I could see the UniParty pivoting “right” to give the appearance of legitimacy, its probably already being negotiated.

            Way out there wacky prediction: I have a beef with Senator Manchin going back about seven years for unethical and likely illegal actions he took on behalf of his daughter -then CEO of Mylan Labs- against the Zogenix company who had introduced a competing medication (Zohydro ER). However, I am wondering if he (or perhaps Sinema) is willing to sell his (or her) vote for a VP spot?

            Think about it, Biden on paper and in theory was a decent candidate but Harris is and always was the *worst* possible choice that could be made. Now it is clear Biden’s health is not making it to 2024 and they already have to pull out all the stops to make him palatable – not to mention the US reputation in the world which while already low was *higher under Trump*.

            Both Sinema and Manchin look 100% more competent than both Biden/Harris and neither comes off as polarizing nut job. Sinema actually looks better on paper for the Dims since she fulfills the all powerful commandment of Affirmative Action but for her personally it works too since her own election was so suspicious she wouldn’t have to run again if she got upgraded. They would probably lose a Senate seat in either event but once the legislation is passed the party may not care as much.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            @coastie:

            I suppose some politicians have aged past their sell-by dates, but I don’t think age is the heart of the problem. I think the real problem is that our elected officials – all of them, at every level – are bribed so thoroughly by special interests that no one really knows what they stand for. In fact, they tend to stand for whatever they’re paid to stand for. The voters are simply a bunch of folks who need to be manipulated by the special interests into supporting “their” candidates.

            And voters pick right up on that, which leads to a) “I don’t care anymore” cynicism, and b) the “burn it all down” nihilism you see on the right, and to a lesser extent from the far left.

            Given all this, is it any wonder that politicians tend to deal in BS and “Keeping Up With The Kardashians” drama instead of talking about real issues? Of course they do. The people paying their bills don’t want voters paying attention to the real issues. If they did, they’d ban the payola, stat. The powers that be don’t want that. Thus, the system we have now.

            I think the only real long term solution is to remove the elected officials from the payola teat. At that point we can get back to electing people based on what they want to do, versus how good they are at trolling everyone who doesn’t support them.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            @28:

            There is no “state media.” The press is ALWAYS hard as hell on the president. Some presidents just make targets of themselves, and Biden has made himself a target because he’s not succeeding with Congress. Trump had the same problem, and magnified it a thousandfold with his bionically dumb yap.

            I’d rather judge a president based on his or her actual leadership, versus his last 100 troll tweets.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Historically that may be true to some regard but certainly not in the past ten years and we mustn’t forget the cheerleading into the 2003 Iraqi invasion with only Knight Ridder team doing any real investigative journalism on the narrative.

            https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/iraq-war-media-fail-matt-taibbi-812230/

            https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-reporting-team-that-g_n_91981

            Until Brandon jacked up Afghanistan, nary a negative thing was said – and on the record I will state one man cannot have created that situation on his own no matter how incompetent or powerful. There is a deeper game going on there, the same media who immediately quashed any dissent on the 2020 [s]election – despite Justice Alito’s comments on “election irregularities” – and then immediately sought to crucify the idiots of the January 6th riot while ignoring or defending the idiots of the 2020 riots suddenly woke up. My read is they were activated to move against Biden, they as a group went from ice cream questions to actual ones for a reason.

            https://nypost.com/2021/05/27/press-slammed-for-asking-biden-questions-about-his-ice-cream/

            Agree on Trump’s behavior, but in fairness he went up against a media who would criticize him for taking too long if he announced a cure for cancer. Meanwhile Barry blew up Ukraine and Libya by himself while escalating Syria… where were they then (or even now on those wars)? What happened to Code Pink, do Iraqi lives matter but not Libyans? Its all clearly orchestrated, and if Fox was ever legit it certainly not now after being sold to Disney. One message, many flavors, all sides crafted and controlled – this is why blogging is to criticized since.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          I actually watched that press conference live and at no point was that suggestion even made. One of the talking heads suggested that and was told no, but of course State controlled Media ran with misnomers as they always do. What I think actually happened there was Trump’s own slight dementia kicked in and due to his extreme ego, he will never admit it. So he doubles down I think the next day or day after and “owns it” because I think in his mind it is better to say something stupid than to admit weakness or a flaw.

          They edited it down to the initial comments, bear in mind this is 70 something old man trying to talk his way through off the top of the head thoughts:

          https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/coronavirus/fact-check-white-house-spins-trump-disinfectant-remarks/2284542/

          The same State Media who tried to gloss over the comments of a sitting president admitting he was told to call on a reporter as if it was the first day of school. Not only does this admit the “president” is literally taking instruction from someone else but it exposes the fact some or all press conference questions are planned and likely rehearsed in advance.

          https://twitter.com/townhallcom/status/1431008329980071936

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            LOL, 28…here’s the actual quote, from the link you posted:
            “And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it’d be interesting to check that. So that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me.”

            Yeah, let’s check that out with the doctors, Mr. President. Wait, the people who make cleansers already asked the doctors, and that’s why they emblazon the following words in big, bold type on the packaging: NOT FOR INTERNAL USE. IF TAKEN INTERNALLY, CALL POISON CONTROL.

            Anyone with an ounce of common sense wouldn’t even suggest it. But Trump did.

            I’d think about giving him a pass if it was an isolated incident, but it was just one of a RIDICULOUSLY long list of unbelievably stupid things he said.

            Stuff like this is the reason the guy got booted from office…by Joe Biden, who spent DECADES sticking saying stupid s**t. That takes real skill.

          • 0 avatar
            CoastieLenn

            28: You’ve never sat in any level governmental brief or question/answer session? Hell, even in the military, if a flag officer/general comes to the office to visit and wants to take questions, the hosting command will solicit for questions from the unit members weeks prior to the arrival of that flag/general. Those questions get picked and chosen, forwarded to his/her aides, and then the official makes the call to rehearse/prepare or not.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Why is the concept an aerosol which can kill a virus such a bad one? Why is it funny to mock a slightly demented old man with little to no scientific or medical understanding talking through ideas, even if they aren’t realistic?

            I do mock a more demented old man when he gets something completely wrong or makes himself sound like a dictator, but if the same demented old man actually got *real* questions on subjects he really didn’t know much about such as science I’m not going to mock him for articulating his thoughts right or wrong as they may be. The difference is Trump’s attitude , GWB was certainly not beloved or anywhere near a Rhodes Scholar but he wouldn’t act like such as ass about the same episode either. It takes a leader to say, I was just talking through it live but I am delegating this to the Surgeon General because I’m no doctor – or better yet NOT have such a brainstorming conversation on live television.

            “Anyone with an ounce of common sense wouldn’t even suggest it. But Trump did.”

            Today they *are* injecting people with a treatment which produces spike proteins through the bloodstream in an attempt to lessen symptoms of the same virus. Not exactly disinfectant but not too far off in concept. I’m not giving Trump any credit for that, but it is happening today.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            @CoastieLenn

            Not gov’t, no.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “Why is the concept an aerosol which can kill a virus such a bad one? Why is it funny to mock a slightly demented old man with little to no scientific or medical understanding talking through ideas, even if they aren’t realistic?”

            1) The concept of an aerosol that can kill viruses in the body is stupid on its’ face – anyone who’s ever bought a can of Lysol or any other household cleaner knows you don’t inhale or ingest the stuff…ever. It’s poisonous. The fact that a sitting president suggested this is mind-blowing.

            2) I found absolutely nothing funny about Trump’s suggestion. I found it horrifyingly stupid…and, as I said before, it’s stupid on its’ face.

            3) I think the “demented” thing is a copout and pure bulls**t – the guy’s in full control of his mental faculties. People just don’t like facing the fact that we elected a textbook toxic narcissist/sociopath as president. And I say that as someone who was married to a textbook toxic narcissist/sociopath. My marriage felt a lot like American history between 2017-2021. Nothing Trump did surprised me in the least because I’d lived it all before.

            I really don’t care about the Trump’s political agenda, because he didn’t have one. Trump’s agenda was Trump. Period.

            The only president I can think of that even approached this level of “me, me, me” toxicity was Nixon, and he had the good grace to quit when it became apparent how badly he was f**king the country up. Trump doubled down, and that’s how a sociopath operates. He should never have been elected.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “Why is the concept an aerosol which can kill a virus such a bad one?”

            There is research being done on a nasal spray antiviral and an aerosolized vaccine.

            Inhaled alcohol vapours have been studied and didn’t show any real promise against Covid. The risk outweighed any nominal benefit.

            A quick google says lysol is 80 percent ethyl alcohol. I saw a fellow in the ER who had drank 2 cans of lysol and a jug of wine. It was the highest BAC I’ve ever seen. Typical alcoholic beverages contain ethyl alcohol. The other components in lysol are more harmful.

        • 0 avatar
          ToolGuy

          @FreedMike,

          So, to circle back, the approval rate matters, or it does not matter?

  • avatar
    MitchConner

    Biden isn’t senile. He’s stupid. He’s always been stupid and always will be stupid.

    People who cheat in college and are repeatedly caught plagiarizing are stupid.

    Anybody who has an EV summit yet refuses to invite Elon Musk to it is stupid.

    Anybody who offers a higher incentive to buyers of union made EVs is stupid — as are those who think this greasing of palms to win votes in future elections with government money is a good idea.

    Little wonder that vile, disgusting creature and his equally inept administration is going down in flames. Too bad the midterms weren’t yesterday.

    He should resign and go bowling with the equally stupid W.

  • avatar
    MitchConner

    Biden isn’t senile. He’s stupid. He’s always been stupid and always will be stupid.

    People who cheat in college and are repeatedly caught plagiarizing are stupid.

    Anybody who has an EV summit yet refuses to invite Elon Musk to it is stupid.

    Anybody who offers a higher incentive to buyers of union made EVs is stupid — as are those who think this greasing of palms to win votes in future elections with government money is a good idea.

    Little wonder that vile, disgusting creature and his equally inept administration is going down in flames. Too bad the midterms weren’t yesterday.

    He should resign and go bowling with the equally stupid W.

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