By on August 16, 2021

2022 Jeep Grand WagoneerThe reviews are breaking today on the new Jeep Grand Wagoneer. As Jeep resurrects one of its most historical full-size nameplates from a three-decade slumber, it’s getting a lot of positive press coverage. But Jeep is in for a world of disappointment in a couple of years.

The old SJ Wagoneer was undeniably an icon and needs its own Rare Rides story (I’ll get on that soon). Changed only minimally in a run from 1963 to 1991, the Grand Wagoneer was an old warhorse that sold to the well-heeled in a pre-Range Rover world. It was a world that didn’t have luxury SUVs in it, except the Grand Wagoneer. The press photo above shows you who bought it and is one of the best PR photos I’ve ever seen. Mister Jimmy Dallas and his third wife Carol, outside their favorite steak place.

But by Grand Wagoneer’s demise in 1991 the SUV market had changed. Competition came from all directions, on the domestic side as the Suburban became ever-more luxurious, and from Europe in the form of the Range Rover and (gray market) Mercedes G-Wagen. Fast forward to the present day, and the competition is even more intense. Just about every upmarket brand fields a full-size luxury SUV, whether of crossover or truck origins.

That hibernation from 1991-2022 is an issue for the Grand Wagoneer. Jimmy Dallas and Carol are dead or have moved on to one of the multitude of other prestige luxury SUVs. Domestic, European, Japanese, take your pick! People under the age of 35 or so who aren’t interested in car history don’t know what the Grand Wagoneer name means. Resurrecting the brand is handy for luxury SUV purposes, but they waited too long to do it. I won’t harp on that point any further, I’ll just say that Chrysler/FCA/Daimler/Stellantis has dropped the SUV ball since 1994 when the new Ram 1500 lacked an SUV sibling. They continue to drop this ball today.

The Grand Wagoneer is also too expensive. And I mean that given its branding, lack of prestige recognition amongst consumers, and frankly its dealership network. As Tim cited in his review, the Grand has a base price of $86,995 and climbs to $106,000 for a fully-loaded Series III example after destination charge. That’s full-lux pricing, in a league with the likes of Range Rover, Cadillac Escalade, Lexus LX, and it’s more expensive than all trims of Lincoln Navigator. What’s the driving force behind this price? It’s based on a Ram truck platform (and that’s fine) and shares a Ram V8 (also fine). But Grand Wagoneer simply does not have the name recognition Jeep thinks it does. And when luxury customers walk into a Jeep showroom and talk to Chad Foursquare and are offered a small bottle of Aquafina, they’re not going to feel very luxurious.

I think Jeep is painting itself into the corner of model differentiation issues. There are now two Grand Cherokees (standard and L) on a unibody platform like always, and two Wagoneers (regular and Grand) based on the Ram 1500. To most observers, these all look the same, and they’re all “Jeep SUVs,” except the Wagoneers cost $35,000-$65,000 more than Cherokees that look the same and are roughly the same size. “Ah, but the Wagoneers are trucks and have nicer interiors,” you’ll say. Worth that sort of price jump though?

The new Grand Wagoneer needed wood slabs on the sides if it was going to pull off the distinct image of the old Grand Wagoneer. The styling cues are a bit too literal where they shouldn’t be (pillars, all the chrome trim) for Jeep not to take it all the way and slap some wood on the side. The Grand Wagoneer would’ve been in a class of its own at that point. Big, bold, and very American. They brought back an icon (too late) and then sorta half-assed it. Choosing white as its PR color of choice was also a mistake because it looks like a big floppy van-like whale. I’d never think it was truck-based, but rather a Grand Cherokee L-XL setup.

This leads me to Jeep’s eventual disappointment. With pricing sky high and a crowded field of bonafide luxury competition, I’m predicting slower sales than Jeep expects. It’ll sell at debut to some people who want to be different, don’t want a Range Rover, and are willing to put up with servicing at their Jeep-Eagle-AMC-Plymouth dealer at the local auto mall. There will also be a few moneyed AMC die-hard retirees who are willing to pay for the Grand Wagoneer name and park it next to their Matador in the garage. But these people will only buy one. In a couple of years I’m anticipating a big cliff face where Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer sales are concerned. At that point, Jeep will once again retire the icon. Perhaps this project might spawn the full-sizer ChryCo should’ve been making all along: a seven-passenger, three-row Ramcharger and Ramcharger XL.

[Images: Tim Healey / TTAC, AMC]

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122 Comments on “Opinion: The Jeep Grand Wagoneer Won’t be a Big Success...”


  • avatar
    theflyersfan

    Maybe it’s the part of the country I live in but I see this running into the same thing I saw the new Escalade run into. Too high of a price. I’ve seen maybe 2 or 3 new Escalades on the street since their introduction. (That might be different if I lived in Orange County.) But, I see expensive Range Rovers every day. Same with higher dollar BMW and MB CUVs. And the Audi Q8 is EVERYWHERE in the upscale suburbs.

    If someone is going to plunk down $80-100K for a new SUV/CUV, I highly doubt it’s going to be on a Jeep. Same with the Caddy. At that price level, you’re buying (or likely three year leasing) image, prestige, dealer experience, and snob appeal. And you aren’t going to get that when a discounted $21,000 Renegade is on the same floor next to this Grand Wagoneer.

    And I never thought I’d see Jeep swipe design from anyone, but that side profile, especially near the rear, could be a Telluride.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      I have to agree. People buy these sort of vehicles based upon prestige. The “Jeep” name alone or combined with “Grand Wagoneer” doesn’t cut it. It’s no different than buying a Hellcatted TrackHawk. They might be more luxurious or better performing than their European rivals but don’t have the snob appeal.

      • 0 avatar
        la834

        This will work only when/if Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer become well known as high-end SUVs to the general public. This will take some time. Chevrolet can get $90K for a Corvette because it’s not just a Chevy, it’s a Corvette. Likewise, people will spend big money for a Hellcat even though it’s just a Dodge or hi-performance Mustangs even though they’re just a Ford. Certainly Jeep has enough enthusiasts to support a luxury model, but word needs to get out first. Also, they need better dealerships.

        • 0 avatar
          Steve Biro

          How about globally? FCA had been pushing Jeep as a global premium brand and a few friends from across the Atlantic have told me that Jeep has an image not far removed from what Land Rover enjoys over here. Granted, a vehicle of this size (and powered by a V8) isn’t going to make it in Europe these days. But how about Latin America, Asia… and even Russia? I can kind of see it as an oligarch’s daily ride – with bulletproof glass and body panels, of course.

      • 0 avatar
        Detroit-X

        I agree with everyone agreeing. The majority of people who have any fondness for the name “Grand Wagoneer” are: dead. Not of this generation. And OMG, the reliability problems of all things Mopar of that era; does that help this name?!!

        This “thing” is severely overpriced, and the styling is lame and dated.

        Chrysler, Toyota, and to a lesser extent Ford (who first had a ‘luxury’ full size SUV), have handed GM the full size SUV market for decades.

        • 0 avatar
          tanooki2003

          Even though there’s a part of me that wants to say “nuh uhh” I have to totally agree with you. My father, who passed away back in April due to prostate cancer, used to have a Wagoneer when I was a child. I still have so many childhood memories in my father’s Jeep Wagoneer. I now get very misty-eyed when I see a bright beige Jeep Wagoneer, the exact same body style as in the old article above because it reminds me of my father and the past childhood memories. :(

          Switching away from the sad note for a moment and getting back to the subject at matter. I really don’t see this new Wagoneer being remotely close to successful as it once was in the past. Granted I’m glad they brought the name back but the styling I think they sort of screwed the pooch on and took styling cues from GM and Ford instead of using the same line of thinking as they did when they recreated the Challenger. This just looks like nothing more than an oversized Jeep Cherokee with a GM/Ford boxy rear end and says nothing special as to why it should be given the Wagoneer nameplate, other than a larger Jeep Cherokee.
          They could have at least done something about the grill to differentiate it from the Cherokee and they also could have dabbled on a bit of woodiness. The idea should be to make this different than what’s already out there, not just another Chevy / Ford knock off looking thing with a Jeep grille. This design is what I would expect from a Chinese automotive designer.

    • 0 avatar
      gregtwelve

      From Goodcarbadcar.com luxury SUV sales so far for 2021. Escalade easily doubled most other brands
      shown as monthly sales Jan-June

      BMW X7 1,524 1,524 1,715 2,200 2,116 2,200 – – – – – –
      Cadillac Escalade 3,149 3,149 3,543 3,672 3,531 – – – – – – –
      Infiniti QX80 1,389 1,389 1,563 1,111 1,068 1,111 – – – – – –
      Land Rover Range Rover 911 911 1,092 1,138 1,094 1,138 – – – – – –
      Lexus LX 493 423 424 417 338 194 22,635 – – – – –
      Lincoln Navigator 1,355 1,715 1,762 1,669 1,492 1,235 998 – – – – –
      Mercedes-Benz G-Class 547 547 615 966 929 966 – – – – – –
      Mercedes-Benz GL/GLS-Class 2,411 2,411 2,712 2,198 2,113 2,198 – – – – – –
      Toyota Land Cruiser 689 567 640 750 664 240 67 –

      • 0 avatar
        APaGttH

        The GM full-size truck platform going back to GMT400. love it or hate it, it isn’t the best at anything but it is, in the full sum of its parts, the best at everything.

        This is why the Suburban-Tahoe-Yukon-Escalade continues to sell as they do.

        They’re the steady and reliable B student who does all the work on the group project. The quiet baseball player that at the end of an 18-year career with 3 teams fans go, “oh wow, when you add up all their numbers they really do have a crack at the Hall of Fame.” They are an honest steak dinner at a legit steakhouse complete with dim lights and a 10-page wine list – better than Ruth Chris, but not a pretentious two-hour dining affair with a 4-digit check at the end of the night.

      • 0 avatar
        Detroit-X

        Soon to this list: The FIVE TON, “planet friendly,” electric Hummer that nobody asked for. Ugh.

    • 0 avatar

      “At that price level, you’re buying (or likely three year leasing) image, prestige, dealer experience, and snob appeal. ”

      Are you talking about me? You cannot be more wrong. The last thing I want is to showcase my wealth to some random people on the street. So I can buy Wagoneer because it looks like humble Grand Cherokee.

      • 0 avatar
        Scoutdude

        While there certainly are buyers who don’t want to display their wealth there are a lot that do and I doubt they will be switching out of their German SUVs or Cadillacs as those have proper snob appeal.

      • 0 avatar
        theflyersfan

        When people are taking on 84 month car loans on a car that they can barely afford, combined with a mortgage in a house in a part of town they want to be seen in and say they live in, and 2.5 kids in a private school that costs more than college and all in risk of vanishing with a job loss or economic downturn, yes, for a lot of people, the appearance of wealth and bragging rights means more than any kinds of financial security and stability.

        There aren’t enough doctor’s wives (or husbands) that scoop the numbers of these sold. When your neighbor shows up with a $60,000 GMC and you’ve been playing “Beat the Neighbor” for years, I’ll lump that person in the category of someone would buy this.

        Plus it appeals to inner snobs when we now have illuminated front badges and LED “signature” DRLs in patterns up front. Because you need to see the brand from a mile away.

      • 0 avatar
        MrIcky

        I tend to agree with Inside Looking Out. To me, this is much like the ‘platinum’ truck trims that are creeping toward 100k. My own anecdotal experience is that this is perfect for realtors and people doing well but they’re charging an hourly rate, and showing up in a benz or land rover is off putting to their clients (“how much am I paying you again?”). But they can get away with an extremely optioned American truck. This seems like that same class of vehicle- loaded to the gills but you can still deflect a little since it’s not a prestige nameplate.

    • 0 avatar
      teddyc73

      Oh good grief, they didn’t swipe anything from your precious Telluride. FYI, Hyundai sold the Genesis next to the Accent if I remember correctly. That seemed to go alright for them. Don’t underestimate how people at this price point feel about Jeep.

    • 0 avatar
      millmech

      Rear side window much like Toyota FJ55.

  • avatar
    Kyree

    I concur. Many Jeep stores (including the one nearest to me) are moving to standalone buildings alongside the Chrysler/Dodge/RAM ones, but unless that comes with a drastic improvement in the service and sales experience, I think Jeep will be outmatched by any number of brands that are far more willing to put their shade of lipstick on the back of your trousers for these prices.

    As the former owner of a 2015 Grand Cherokee, I was continuously disappointed with my local Jeep store’s service. No matter how low I set the bar, they always managed to slink under it. That included losing my keys, putting 800 miles over four days on my car to diagnose a simple intermittent warning, giving me a lightly-used Journey with no working exterior light, repairing my radiator incorrectly, and having the customer service manager try to start a shouting match with me.

    • 0 avatar
      teddyc73

      So one dealer is representative of all dealers. Got it Oh wait, my local dealer does an exceptional job and could easily cater to people of any price point and expectation.

    • 0 avatar
      Detroit-X

      “I was continuously disappointed with my local Jeep store’s service. No matter how low I set the bar, they always managed to slink under it.”

      A great way to put it.

  • avatar
    EBFlex

    “But Jeep is in for a world of disappointment in a couple of years.”

    Completely wrong.

    • 0 avatar

      “Completely wrong.”

      You’re wrong. See how arguments and rebuttals hold no water without supporting statements?

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        That would require effort.

      • 0 avatar

        What effort? It is not a Ford.

      • 0 avatar
        EBFlex

        “See how arguments and rebuttals hold no water without supporting statements?”

        There’s nothing of substance to respond to. You provided the exact same level of justification I did to support your opinion. Why would I go into expansive detail when you didn’t to support your claim?

        Take the silly “It’s too expensive” argument. You provide nothing of substance. You ignore that the interior alone is better than any of the vehicles you mentioned. Or rather, what aspects of the interior/exterior/chassis, etc are not worthy of the price? Did you even drive it?

        This makes the Escalade and especially the navigator look absolutely pathetic. And of the Ram 1500 is any indicator, even the refreshed models will not be up to the level the Grand Wagoneer is.

        ———————

        Lou_MR: “That would require effort.”

        Pretty hypocritical from a person who’s only effort to defend his positions is “my political party said so”.

        ———————-

        “I know the response is quite juvenile, however, at the end of the day a response like this still completely cracks me up”

        It’s not juvenile when the entirety of the article is essentially “It’s not going to succeed because I dont think it’s going to succeed”

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @ebflex- LOL. I don’t belong to any political party. This is an apolitical thread.

          Butt hurt much?

          Try proctosedyl cream or suppositories. Maybe there isn’t enough fibre in your diet. You do behave like someone who’s chronically constipated.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            ” LOL. I don’t belong to any political party.”

            The only other group of people that denies reality at the same level you do is flat Earthers. Are you a flat earther too?

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Well, Ebflex, if you like this car so much, go buy one. Put your money where your mouth is.

            Run along, now…leave the commenting for the grownups.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “denies reality”

            That does sum up the problem with the USA today. Both sides cannot agree on the facts.

            With that being said, I can easily cite peer reviewed scientific research to back vaccinations,masks, and climate science. Faux and friends, OAN and nutjobs on 4Chan are not remotely correct.

            I would have pegged you as a flatearther since everything else you say is unidimensional, shallow, or partisan.

    • 0 avatar
      spookiness

      And so’s your mom!

  • avatar

    Lots of wealthy jeep owners in the North East. I think the Grand Wagoneer on it’s own won’t sell that many but add in the Wagoneer and I think they will sell fine. GM moves 100k Tahoes a year and like 25k Escalades. I expect Jeep should be able to sell 5k grand wagoneers and 40-50k wagoneers a year.

    Price does seem a little steep average MSRP of an in stock tahoe near me seems like it’s right around 70K Escalade 95K Expedtions 70k and yukon 75k
    I wonder what they target production at.

    • 0 avatar
      golden2husky

      Cory nailed it – this is coming too late. Back in the 70s and early 80s, these were everywhere in the wealthy neighborhoods. But once other brands with more snot appeal started offering alternatives, sales here dropped sharply. While these were very rugged and durable, reliability was not great. Sure they were still more reliable than Range Rovers once they hit the scene, but the RR dealer treated the customer way better than AMC/Jeep stores did. Most people who could afford a Grand Wagoneer back then have either permanently moved to “premium” brands or are no longer of driving age. While I am nostaglic for these – we spent a lot of time in one – I don’t see it as likely to sell in huge enough numbers.

  • avatar

    Since Fiat bought Chrysler, and now part of Stellantis, their quality has gone down. Jeeps won’t last very long before they start to fall apart

  • avatar
    ajla

    I think you are a little too hung up on the GW itself because the Wagoneer is where the volume will be. The GW is really just a trim level parading as a separate model.

    • 0 avatar

      Yep GW i trying to split the difference between a Denali and escalade.

    • 0 avatar

      But that would suggest lots of customers want the Wagoneer name for $75k, and don’t care that it’s the lesser one and doesn’t say Grand Wagoneer on it.

      Who are those people with that much money, but not $10-15k more for the more premium car?

      • 0 avatar
        ajla

        The Series I trim Wagoneer isn’t out yet and that should be a little cheaper. Right now a Series II Wagoneer starts at $68K and a Expedition Max Limited starts at $66k so it isn’t a hugely terrible situation for Jeep. Jeep is just missing that XLT equivalent trim level.

        I do think they should try to keep the GW with as much of a halo as possible then they can play equipment and incentive games on the Wagoneer.

      • 0 avatar

        It’s kind of like the people that save 10k buying a SLT premium Yukon instead of Denali, missing the badge but it’s close enough that they take the savings.

        • 0 avatar
          dal20402

          Some buyers take the SLT not for the savings, but because it looks less pretentious. Those same buyers would prefer a loaded Wagoneer to a base Grand.

          • 0 avatar

            I have been told my wealthier acquaintances that the appeal of things like Grand Cherokees, Tahoes and Suburbans, is they fit in well in any social situation. Less worry your employees think your spending too much on a car, but still no question why you chose it when you pull in the valet parking.

      • 0 avatar
        teddyc73

        @ Corey Lewis Who are these people? Corey, come on, you can’t be serious with that comment. Just because one has the desire for a Jeep and is willing to purchase a 75K vehicle doesn’t mean they are willing to plunk down an additional 10-15K There could be plenty of people out there. I’m sure jeep did market research.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      I agree, this is a lot of ink to spill on a trim level. It’s like saying, “Honda is going to have no luck selling the Accord Special Edition.” Well…okay!

      I think the better question would have been “can Jeep sell a six-figure vehicle”. I wouldn’t be surprised if Corey’s right when he says they won’t sell as many of them as they think they will. But they will sell some, and every one they do sell will print money for them. I don’t see how that’s a bad thing for them.

      • 0 avatar

        It’s a trim level being sold like a different car, and as a new luxury flagship for the brand. They’re really busy talking up the GW and spending much less time on the regular Wagoneer. And when people say Wagoneer, what they mean is Grand Wagoneer.

        My argument was certainly not that it’s a bad thing to try and sell super expensive GWs, just that it will fail. This will be a short-lived model, mark my words.

  • avatar
    DenverMike

    It may “flop” it’s first year since no one will be aware buyers are in the $100K Club. Then hold on to your hat. And it’s a “Jeep”, get real.

    Note Ram pickups are the third most profitable “cars” in the world. So the Wagoneer could be non profitable for many years no problem. Dodge pickups were dying in ’91 and Iacocca had his head up his K-Car A$$.

    • 0 avatar
      la834

      If it weren’t for Lee Iacocca, Chrysler wouldn’t own Jeep in the first place. Acquiring AMC for a pittance was one of Lee’s most brilliant moves.

      • 0 avatar
        APaGttH

        Spot on. They squeezed the last drops of blood out of the Eagle brand doing badge engineering and got Jeep.

        The Chrysler K platform was done in 1989.

        The development of the second-generation Dodge Ram BR/BE started in 1986. The design was moved to AMC in 1987, so the second gen truck would have been a modular design had it not gone to AMC.

        Bob Lutz, upon seeing the original design language said it was just a rehash of every other pickup on the road, and that resulted in a second redesign, resulting in the design language that lives on today.

        So not only was the purchase of AMC brilliant, it likely helped save Ram trucks from oblivion.

        • 0 avatar
          DenverMike

          It doesn’t take 6 or 7 years to put out a new pickup. Unless it’s on the back burner. Like way back. It’s an extremely competitive class too and Dodge was basically ditching. There were some mighty fine K-Cars in that frametime!

          Dodge Rams wouldn’t have been the only non K-car casualties in the era from the Chrysler group, I know you could name a few.

  • avatar
    sirwired

    If not for the “Grand Wagoneer” in letters on the side, I would have thought that side view was a new version of the Durango.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    Can you name the truck with four wheel drive,
    smells like a steak and seats thirty-five…
    Canyonero! Canyonero!

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    I agree – this won’t be a big success, but at the end of the day, this is a $100,000 Ram pickup. They don’t have to sell all that many for this to be a success.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      @Freed

      Geez it really sucks to be shopping in your area, but I found three things which may be acceptable:

      If we’re spending 5K, use half for this and half for recon costs on a 20+ yo example:

      https://fortcollins.craigslist.org/cto/d/fort-collins-buick-lesabre-excellent/7365752500.html

      I know what this is so to speak, but 60V6 with lower miles and the seller at least cleaned it up for show – more than most dealers do at the price point these days:

      https://denver.craigslist.org/cto/d/denver-2007-pontiac-g6-v6-low-mileage/7365717730.html

      This despite not being Church sanctioned actually looks pretty good. Supposedly the Shortstar works, somehow, and I have seen the 95-99 Aurora 4.0 put up high miles, somehow. The pic is obscured so I can’t make out which motor is on the trunk deck. Future resale isn’t your friend on this but looks clean could be a true one owner grandma ride and G-body actually did well in period crash tests:

      https://denver.craigslist.org/cto/d/aurora-2001-oldsmobile-aurora-low-miles/7361028867.html

      I could actually see *you* in that Aurora and give your car to your kid ;)

  • avatar
    NJRide

    I didn’t realize there wasn’t a size diff between Wagoneer/Grand. I feel like they should have consolidated better.

  • avatar
    NeilM

    Man, that’s one homely vehicle!

    It’s neither butch enough for the traditional Jeep crowd, nor stylish enough for anyone who might be willing to shell out $100 grand.

    As for the “Grand Wagoneer” name, well, good luck with the nostalgia play.

    Still, at least there’s Stellantis’s legendary quality and reliability…

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      It’s pretty vanilla looking to me (no pun intended with white launch color). It has awkward Suburbanish kind of sort of lines to me. The square fender openings are controversial with people – something just seems “off” to me.

      Would be a great Vellum Venom candidate.

  • avatar

    Wouldn’t You Really Rather Have an Enclave?

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      Sure, for the one time every four or five years I’d need something that seats that many people, I’d rather have one…from Hertz.

    • 0 avatar
      Detroit-X

      I would. Even though the name, “Enclave,” is so awkward for a vehicle; it never seems to have a good intonation. (This didn’t prevent someone from Buick getting promoted for approving it though, in the quest for GM to buy up all the E-words, blocking Ford.)

      “Go five miles out of town, turn on the first dirt road, and there is a whole enclave of hippies, with dirty, stinking, feet.

  • avatar
    KOKing

    If Stellantis’ sales expectations are kept in check, I think it’ll do OK, but it’s not gonna put any dents in any of its competitors. If anything, it’s biggest competition is gonna be the Grand Cherokee L on the other side of the lot.

  • avatar
    Mackey

    To me, the fact that they are releasing this at the same basic time as a redesigned Grand Cherokee (with it’s well established current name cache), AND and all new Grand Cherokee L is foolish.

    The GC-L feels to me like someone at Stelantis went into this project hedging their bets against the Grand Wagoneer. Both will compete for the same overlapping customers, given that most will have towing needs that can realistically be satisfied by the GC-L, at a lower price.

    The problem that compounds this is the poor styling, which is a gussied up but more awkward (due to those pillars) version of the new GC.

    I loved the original Grand Wagoneer, and what made it a timeless classic was that it was an original that remained relevant for nearly 30 years. No modern vehicle can accomplish that, so it is doomed to live up to that piece of its legacy. So it should have been allowed to be a modern interpretation of the classic, making it’s big money off nostalgia while it can on an inexpensive platform (Ram), and leaned into it’s heritage. As it sits now, it’s a shoulder shrug at best for most buyers trying to distinguish it from its own family. Once price is a factor, it becomes a bit more of an easy decision, except for the diehards and those truly needing towing capability.

    I’d say give me a new Toyota Land Cruiser, but alas, these kings are dead. I guess I’ll still have to consider the uglier Lexus LX, if I want true luxury, true capability, and better reliability.

  • avatar
    jack4x

    I would not write off the ability of Jeep to sell a $100K luxury vehicle so quickly.

    If they had a history of trying it and failing, that’s one thing. But Jeep is a well respected badge, the interior appears to be $100K worthy, and people are certainly willing to pay similar money for trucks and SUVs from “regular” domestic brands (Platinum trucks, Yukon Denali, Expedition). Hell, the top non SRT GCs are still deep into the $60s and show up everywhere.

    Even if you don’t buy what I said in the other thread about dealer availability being a big deal, the Jeep brand in my experience is strong enough to command big money.

    • 0 avatar
      Mackey

      I agree that they will move some, and initially it may even be respectable enough to justify it. But even with high margins, will they sell enough to justify it long term when not differentiated enough from their other products except that it has a frame and likely poorer fuel economy.

      No doubt, it will be a nice vehicle, and not entirely outclassed. It’s just a question of whether it’s enough to woo conquest buyers from the other established models and brands.

    • 0 avatar
      thegamper

      I’d have to agree with Jack. If people are willing to pay the better part of 100k for pickups which have absolutely no style or character, they will pay for this too. The fact that pickups were mostly thought of as farm equipment or redneck sedans in the recent past but now sell for ridiculous profit to large swaths of the country just goes to show you that that research or value are not high points of this consumer segment. What matters is that it’s huge enough to crush the ground beneath it, blot out the sun and view of other drivers, consumes incredible amounts of fuel and can fill up the rearview mirror of the cars it is tailgating. Check, check, check. It will sell just fine.

  • avatar
    jalop1991

    “Chad Foursquare”

    This right here.

    BTW, does anyone remember VW trying to sell a $100K…well, it looked like a Passat, anyway….oh, yeah, Phaeton?

    I would say all this will go over like a lead balloon, but as Adam and Jamie proved, even a lead balloon can float…

  • avatar
    chrisp

    Here at the Jersey Shore, every high end SUV – be it German, British or Japanese – had a Wrangler parked next to it I. The driveway. Seemingly every high end car has one in the driveway too.

    Buyers don’t see Jeep as part of Chrysler or Stellantis – most see it as Jeep. And now they can spend even more money at the Jeep Store.

  • avatar
    dal20402

    Wagoneer is going to do fine. They’re already selling lots of loaded Grand Cherokees up in the $60k range, and Wagoneer is a natural and pretty easy step up.

    Grand Wagoneer is more of a gamble. I have a hard time picturing our local pickup line moms choosing it over the proven brand equity of an X7 or GLS-Class.

  • avatar
    Scoutdude

    Define success. Will it sell as well as the Escalade or Navigator, no. Will it be profitable, yes even with the low volume and the 10-15k in discounts that will occur in ~2 years.

    I’m not sure what it matters that people under 35 won’t remember the original because people under 35 aren’t a big portion of the $100k+ vehicle market. I’m going to be the average age of the buyers will be much older than 35.

  • avatar
    carcomment

    Automotive journalists. In 2021 that means bloggers —— they have actual facts. And always with the comparisons to long ago discontinued models as if today’s buyers care. The Blazer oh the shame-it’s, it’s a CUV that doesn’t live up to the legacy-pshaw. And the Wagoner needs to have wood paneling. I laughed so hard I nearly needed a trip to ER.

    Jeep is a premium brand and has carved out a niche for itself much like GM did with Denali until it bastardized it with slapping the name on everything. Jeep’s upper end trims are for the folks to whom Buick was once targeted. Jeep will do fine with this model as the Navigator is aging and Lincoln has failed to date to reposition itself as a modern brand despite the good work. And the Chevy and GMC interiors leave a lot to be desired. Perhaps I was wrong when I criticized your piece on ancient cars. At least there you didn’t need to predict the future. Now ——

    • 0 avatar

      “…pretending they have actual facts.”

      The title of this article says Opinion as its first word. Did you notice that? The content of the article is, shockingly, opinion.

      Personal attacks are against the rules, and those parts of your comment have been edited. This is a warning, clean up your act.

      • 0 avatar
        carcomment

        i presumed that your opinion was as a journalist but it is merely a man on the street piece. There is a complete lack of basis or analysis. And more importantly, no basis for a reader to assess your opinion in the future. You fail to offer how this product will be judged a failure or disappointment by the manufacturer in volume and/ or profit. So as an opinion it is little more than provocative uninformed speculation. It is decidedly not the opinion offered up in the clothes of an auto journalist, at least not one who wishes to be held accountable down the road. This weak kneed piece allows you to declare victory no matter the actual outcome.

        As to you redaction, i will simply state censorship is bad.

        • 0 avatar

          “And more importantly, no basis for a reader to assess your opinion in the future.”

          Well, if the sales don’t fall off a cliff after a couple years, it eclipses or meets competitor sales, or gets a second generation I’ll definitely be wrong. You’re focused too hard on a lack of included sales targets, which of course I don’t have. And once again it’s an opinion, not a market analysis.

          “As to you redaction, i will simply state censorship is bad.”

          Read our commenting rules. You want to take issue with article content, quality, whatever, fine. You’ll not insult authors or commenters personally or you’ll be censored and eventually banned. By commenting here you agree to the commenting rules.

          https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/07/commenting-policy-updated-ttacs-six-rules-civility/

    • 0 avatar
      RHD

      It will sell to the self-indulgent consumers who think that if something is expensive, then it must be valuable, and probably good quality, and therefore makes the consumer a more attractive and valuable person.
      They also buy expensive purses, expensive shoes and expensive coffee, get expensive hair re-coloring, expensive fingernail and toenail paint jobs, and buy assortments of overpriced goop to recolor most parts of their faces.

  • avatar
    rudiger

    Does anyone else sense a repeat of the Jeep Commander fiasco?

  • avatar

    I don’t think the name Wagoneer or Grand Wagoneer matters much. What really matters is high end interiors and JEEP. That’s really all it needs to sell.

    • 0 avatar
      pmirp1

      No high end interior is not all it needed. It need a good looking rough and tough exterior together with a high end interior. That exterior is anything but resembling what a Jeep should be.

      Your definition is what a Navigator should be.

      • 0 avatar

        I used to agree with you, but I’m not so sure anymore. I think it just needs enough Jeep styling cues to get it there. That said the regular wagoner with the offroad package I think just clears the bar for visually rugged for me.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    If were paying a 100k for this type of vehicle I would choose the Lexus version of the Land Cruiser because it will outlast this and Lexus service is much better but I can see that the Grand Wagoner could sell just enough to be profitable but with very low volume. I would never buy a vehicle like this but then I am not the target market for this.

    • 0 avatar
      teddyc73

      How do you know it will outlast this? I’m always amused when people make statements like that based on old outdated perceptions.

      • 0 avatar
        pmirp1

        lol because some of us own Jeeps. For example the Jeep plastic cooling system on pentastars (thermostats, radiators, water pumps) normally have issues under 100,000 miles. Toyota, no chance as they don’t use plastic.

        Add to that starters and alternators that go out around 100,000 miles.

        There is a reason there used to be lifetime Mopar extended warranty. If you know Jeeps, you know that is the way to go.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @teddyc73 – my buddy has a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited. It needed a new engine just off of warranty. It has had a host of other problems. He figures it will need at least another $8k to repair. I know multiple Jeep owners with similar stories. One fellow put a 5.7 in his due to the V6 failing and now has been plagued by electrical gremlins(which is common.)

    • 0 avatar

      New luxury car buyers don;t seem to care much about reliability (see how the land cruiser sells versus other trucks in it’s price class). Many of these are leased or if bought they are traded in with less then 100k miles on them.

      • 0 avatar
        87 Morgan

        This.

        My business partner is soon to be on his 3rd BMW. His preference is to buy them as a CPO at the BMW store. He feels he gets a better deal this way, in lieu of buying one new. He does however trade them upon the expiration of the CPO warranty as he readily admits he never wants to own a BMW outside of warranty. I have yet to understand why he is so enamored with them, the repair issue on two of them has been enough for me to continue driving my 08′ Suburban.

        Back to the GW. I am somewhat in the camp that the sales will fall of a cliff once the initial gotta have it group buy/lease them. It will also be interesting to see how much Stelantis subsidizes the lease terms. I would think ALG is going to set the residual to past FCA figures which would put the residual in the neighborhood of 50% per 36-42 months; which puts you in the neighborhood of a $1600-$1300 (50k/36=1388..longer term lower payment) or more with taxes and a super low incentivized money factor.

  • avatar
    teddyc73

    Good lord, all the pessimism and negativity. The thing isn’t even out yet. Im sure Jeep did research and thinks there is a market for this vehicle. This is a very shortsighted article to say the least. I read somewhere about a large contingent of people in this price point who purchase luxury cars as primary drivers and supplement their fleet with a Jeep, usually a high end Grand Cherokee. Who’s to say those people won’t switch over to a Jeep Grand Wagoneer? The Grand Wagoneer probably won’t be the big seller, the Wagoneer most likely will. Relax everyone, stop the negative prognostications and let’s see what happens.

  • avatar
    pmirp1

    Unfortunately whoever designed this new Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer as well as Grand Cherokee L forgot the reason people like Jeeps is not just because of luxury, it is an image of ruggedness cultivated along with hints of luxury. These new vehicles have almost no hint of ruggedness in them. They have gone all in with luxury. And they don’t look good from the sides.

    I own a Grand Cherokee, and my decent Jeep dealer (I had to go through five of them in my northeast part of Atlanta before I found a good one) has big boulders out front and Wranglers trying to hike these rocks. Inside it is a mix of lodge decor and ropes and outdoorsyness. These new Jeeps (Wagoneers and Grand Wagnoneers) have lost that connection to outdoorsy life. Perhaps why we see no Laredo trim.

  • avatar
    Lie2me

    “Mister Jimmy Dallas and his third wife Carol”

    “Jimmy Dallas and Carol are dead ”

    Have you met Mister Donny Palm Beach and his third wife Melania?

    There used to be a rather narrow fellow here who pretended to have a big rancher lifestyle, a real “all hat and no cattle” kind of guy (High Desert Cat) who would love this vehicle. He isn’t alone

  • avatar

    The first dealer to start putting wood trim on these is going to sell out.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      Think of it as a “carriage roof,” circa 2021. Can Vogue tyres (yes, “tyres”) be far behind?

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @Jo Borras – I’ve seen Chevy dealers put tutone wraps on the new Chevy trucks. They look kinda stupid since the lines of the truck don’t suite it. I’ve seen the same on new Ford’s but it looks nice on them since it follows the truck lines. It could work if done right.

    • 0 avatar
      Superdessucke

      I absolutely despise these gas guzzling behemoths but if they would have put wood on it, I’d be seriously considering trading in my Veloster N for one.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    No he only loved Toyotas.

  • avatar
    tankinbeans

    I would have a hard time distinguishing the Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer from a Suburban if I only had a profile view. This isn’t to play into the trope that “all cars look the same, break out the cookie cutter,” because I don’t buy that idea. I’m pretty good at picking out the models that I could conceivably afford, or have some familiarity with, but there doesn’t appear to be anything overly specific about the Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer to set them apart from the Suburban. I don’t know if that will affect sales; this is so far above my ability to buy that I don’t pretend to understand who would be in the market.

    With that said, I find it relatively attractive in a staid manner. In a sea of garish lines, creases and bulges, slab-sided boxes are a breath of fresh air.

  • avatar
    Tstag

    So next year the New Range Rover, Range Rover Sport and Defender 130 all launch…..

  • avatar
    Lightspeed

    Depreciation on these is gong to be a harsh, harsh bitch when their owners shed them for the new electric luxury SUVs. As a group, the biggest lux ICE SUVs may the quickest cars to enter the bone-yard in automotive history.

    • 0 avatar
      ToolGuy

      Part of me would love to snap up a GMT800 or GMT900 Suburban (or Yukon XL) at the right price one of these years. For carrying tools and equipment short distances along with the occasional monster road trip, my total miles wouldn’t drive a huge fuel bill.

      I hope you are right, is what I’m trying to say.

  • avatar
    jimmeh72

    Vancouver, BC has the highest luxury cars per capita on the planet, and you don’t see any Cadillac Escalades or Lincoln Navigators around. Like none. And, we won’t see any Grand Wagoneers around either. If you are spending X7, Range Rover, or GLS money, you expect… well, an X7, Range Rover or GLS. For an Escalade or Grand Wagoneer to be successful, it has to be priced in X5 or GLE range.. there has to be some value proposition. Otherwise, why would anyone want one?

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