By on July 1, 2021

President Biden. Image: Ford

There are competing philosophies when it comes to shifting the market to electric vehicles.

There’s the free-market philosophy, which says the market will get there on its own. There’s the incentive philosophy, which suggests incentivizing consumers will accelerate the transition away from the internal combustion engine. Consider that one to be the carrot approach.

Finally, we have the philosophy that if regulations don’t force automakers to make more EVs, they won’t, at least not quickly enough to address climate change. The free market and/or incentives won’t be enough. Consider this to be the stick.

Guess which philosophy President Joe Biden seems to be embracing?

According to the New York Times, Biden’s plan to cut tailpipe emissions is two-fold. The first part is to restore standards to what they were under Barack Obama, who Biden served as vice president. The second part? Make the standards stricter.

The Times reports that sometime this month, Biden will announce a plan to return to the Obama-era standards. The Times also reports that the administration is working on stricter standards. Those standards could reduce emissions and perhaps increase EV sales but they’d almost certainly be the target of political pushback. It’s also possible, though by no means certain, that stricter standards could have negative impacts on the industry.

Biden has already pledged to cut carbon emissions to half of 2005 levels by 2030.

“Look, the future of the auto industry is electric. There’s no turning back,” Biden said back in May, at a Ford event unveiling the Lightning electric truck. “We’re going to set a new pace for electric vehicles. That means reversing the previous administration’s shortsighted rollback of vehicle emissions and efficiency standards. Setting strong, clear targets where we need to go.”

Both the Environmental Protection Agency and the Department of Transportation are expected to propose a rule that would require passenger vehicles to have an average of around 51 mpg by 2026. Current standards, set by former President Donald Trump, hover around 44 mpg by 2026. Obama’s rules aimed for the same mpg but by 2025.

But wait, there’s more. The admin is also said to be working on rules that would be more “ambitious” (the Times word) and run through 2030 or maybe even 2032. A top climate advisor is apparently trying to write the rule so that it appeases both automakers and the labor unions.

According to the Times report, transportation as a sector is the biggest single source of the kind of emissions that warm the climate, at 28 percent of carbon emissions. The paper doesn’t break things out by segment, though — it doesn’t say how much of that is attributed to cars and how much is attributed to cargo ships or commercial airplanes.

The Times astutely notes that consumers might be slow to adopt EVs, due to the lack of charging infrastructure and other reasons. It also suggests that the passage of a general infrastructure bill might make tougher emissions rules an easier sell, especially if such a bill improves charging infrastructure and creates more tax incentives.

If an infrastructure bill doesn’t spend much to help support EVs, it could upset automakers, who’d be forced to build EVs that would be tough to sell. Unions also have skin in the game, since a shift to EVs could reduce the number of workers needed on the line.

There’s also politics to consider, as Biden is a car guy who has also presented himself as pro-union. There will also be pushback from the fossil-fuel industry.

Some governors want the Biden admin to go further and work to make sure all new cars and trucks are EVs by 2035.

We’re not going to tell you in this piece which philosophy is the best way to get the market to shift to EVs (I have thoughts on that subject but they are best saved for a separate op-ed), but from here it sure appears Biden chose the stick.

[Image: Ford]

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116 Comments on “Biden’s EV Strategy is More Stick Than Carrot...”


  • avatar
    probert

    Wouldn’t expect US automakers to actually invest in infrastructure to support the vehicles they say they’re going to produce. Waiting for the handout as usual – brave freemarkers that they are. Excepting Tesla of course who can see past the next quarterly report and actually develop a cogent far reaching statagy.

    So yes – this system needs a government boost. One payoff is that other peoples’ sons and daughters will not have to die for your right to idle a truck at the piggly wiggly. Another payoff, is that the US might just be able to keep up with the rest of the industrial world, in at least in this one area. Too much to ask – probably – what does Joe Manchin say?

    • 0 avatar
      Freddie

      The free market approach works when “externalities” (i.e. the effects of your vehicle’s emissions) are accounted for.
      Maybe a carbon fuels tax, maybe a vehicle tax based on EPA MPG ratings. Create the incentive for “greener” cars but don’t micromanage the technology. Let a competitive marketplace find the most cost effective solution. Maybe it’s electric, maybe it’s hybrids, maybe it’s something nobody’s heard of yet. Don’t enshrine one technology into law.

      • 0 avatar
        tomLU86

        why not just tax motor fuel? The more you use, the more you pay. Simple. Easy.

        If my big V8 truck is EPA rated at 12 mpg, but I don’t drive it much, why should I pay a bigger tax than my neighbor who has a Civic that is 30mpg but drive 80 miles a day? Who is using more fuel and generating more CO2?

      • 0 avatar
        stuki

        Maybe this and maybe that… One thing there’s no maybe about, is that increased weight, and increased torque to the ground, imposes costs external to any given driver’s immediate calculation.

        As for what currently comes from the tailpipe, it’s been largely even suicide proof, since 1990. They have been, and are, really that clean. At least at date of sale. I’m sure tailpipe emissions don’t have a hard zero cost associated wit them, but neither are they a particularly significant share of the external costs imposed by modern cars. The space they take up, their blocking of sight lines, their noise, and the risks of inuries they impose, are all much greater and more obviously problematic than a few drops of soda water here and there.

        • 0 avatar
          Felix Hoenikker

          That suicide statement is lacking. One of my coworkers wife commited suicide in a 98 Honda Accord in her garage. She suffered from bi-polar disorder. My friend almost died when the CO levels from the garage made it up to the second floor. He awoke with a severe headache and stumbled out to the lawn. An early morning jogger found him and called 911. Needless to say, the emergency responders found the suicide note in the kitchen near the garage door.
          So they steady state CO levels produced at normal operating conditions do not translate into a lowered O2 concentration in an enclosed space.

    • 0 avatar
      Mackey

      Just remember that, to this point, the only thing keeping Tesla viable are those same government handouts, in the form of carbon offsets that they are able to sell to other OEMs.

      Everyone has their nose in the trough.

      • 0 avatar
        mcs

        “he only thing keeping Tesla viable”

        That’s not really true. It’s true that it helps them sustain the insane growth they are undergoing with the ability to construct multiple billion-dollar factories at once and still make a profit, but they would still be viable without them. You also have to remember they are owned by a guy that now has 2/3rds of the space launch business and a growing internet provider business. There are also defense contracts as well. In addition to EVs, Tesla is also in the biotech manufacturing equipment business with some of the mRNA vaccines being made with Tesla bioreactors. They also have a growing grid storage business which will probably make them more money than anything else. It’s a fast growing company that’s more than just an auto comapany.

      • 0 avatar
        stuki

        “Just remember that, to this point, the only thing keeping Tesla viable are those same government handouts, in the form of carbon offsets that they are able to sell to other OEMs. ”

        Ditto near any other so-called “company” in fully financialized dystopias.

        The illiterate idiots who have been handed near all wealth in America, hence also control over America’s once world beating auto industry, have, of course since they are illiterate idiots after all, mismanaged it all to the point where virtually none of it can compete with any organization managed by anyone even slightly less completely retarded.

        So, to avoid hurting the connected apes’ feelings, “we” (that’d be the United Idiots of once-was America), need to make up nonsensical reasons for banning things which work perfectly well, but which requires a modicum of competence to build competitively. So that rank morons can sell pointless, second rate, overpriced junk any three year old can make just as well, instead. Then call the nonsense “America First”, “Inovative,” “Job Creators,” “Saving Gaia” and similar utter nonsense.

        Of course, all they’re really doing, is selling overpriced and under performing garbage. Because that’s all they can do. Them being, to a person, nothing but illiterate idiots and all.

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      I remember when I went to Iraq the first time. The war didn’t make the top 10 concerns Americans had going into an Election year. I also remember Joe Lieberman proclaiming it to be “yesterday’s war” which was funny since it was next week’s war to a bunch of us. Also remember reading in Stars and Stripes that the war on terror was over (in a bunker in Kandahar while taking indirect fire).

      It’s all good…I didn’t join up with stars in my eyes…I had very practical reasons. But let’s dispense with the woe as me about other people’s sons (and daughters…our dog handler and “female engagement team member (couldn’t have dudes touch the females lest they get stoned later) took as much fire as the rest of us). Your party and the morally bankrupt so called anti-war left quit caring in January 2009. Your last 2 nominees and current President supported and voted for those wars BTW…since everyone has conviently forgotten.

      And with respect to Joe Manchin you people don’t know how good you have it. You have a Senator in the reddest state in the country that votes with you like 80 percent of the time. Go ahead, try to primary him. You’ll end up with a Republican if you do manage to beat him that never votes with you.

      Manchin is a convenient scapegoat for the fact that your party underperformed in the 2020 House and Senate races. Go win more elections if you don’t like it, but I wouldn’t put my eggs in the West Virginia basket.

      • 0 avatar
        tomLU86

        Art

        The people at the top like to stay on top. I’m glad you survived your stints in Iraq and Afghanistan, and hope you made it with no injuries.

        The people in power always like to get power and stay in power. July 4 — a bunch of highly educated, intelligent, affluent member of the elite decided “we can do better than pay tribute to the King”, and here we are.

        The government knew Vietnam was a dead end. They’ve know the same about the campaigns you were in. They did it anyway, for the optics, to help keep control by “not losing an election due to looking weak”. Your colleagues cash those checks with their lives, limbs, and/or brains.

        The new thing is climate change in particular, and “social issues” in general. It’s a great shell game to play while you’re taking from the “hoi polloi” (the many) to get for yourself.

        At this time, in this environment, EVs are very uncompetitive with ICE. Even if we added a $3/gallon tax on motor fuels, to help pay for mindless middle east adventures, EVs would still be at a disadvantage.

        So, for the 98 out of 100 people who won’t choose them, you need coercion. Which is ultimately backed up by force–if/when you don’t pay taxes or comply, you must be punished, and that enforcement requires the ability to take one’s money, or to put one imprison, which requires force.

        The pandemic was/is a dress rehearsal for remaking society, in the US and other countries. Canada is leading the way, as a “the world’s first postnational state”. No need to worry about things, we’ll decide and let you know.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        F*** Joe Manchin, hopefully myocarditis comes his way soon.

        Disclosure: My beef stems from he and his family’s corruption which has gone on long before 2020.

  • avatar
    Oberkanone

    Chairman Biden encourages consumer choice. Buy any flavor of EV of your choosing.

  • avatar
    dwford

    I see Mustang Mach E and VW ID4’s piling up at my local dealers, and Bolts can be had for nearly 1/2 price. There’s an upper limit to what the EV market can sell right now. He can make the automakers produce them, but he can’t make consumers buy them.

    • 0 avatar
      Astigmatism

      Ford has reported nationally that days to turn on the Mach-E is around 10, and orders are booked from four to six months out. Somehow I don’t get the sense that they’re having trouble finding consumers to buy them.

      • 0 avatar
        ajla

        It’s close but right now there are more Mach-Es in national inventory than “normal” Mustangs.
        That said, it is hard to get a handle on the popularity of things with production lines being so weird right now.
        The Mach-E is also apparently quite popular internationally so maybe Ford’s statement reflects that as well.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          So did Ford halt production of the real Mustang and existing units are selling well? Seriously.

          Ford’s projections for Not Mustang sales were 25-30K units this year yet somehow there is more inventory than of S-550s which sold 72K units in 2019?

        • 0 avatar
          MUSASHI66

          On Autotrader, listed nationally, 2320 Mustangs and 2255 Mustang Mach Es.

          There are 25 of them in Denver and 100 miles around which includes all the big cities in CO, but 225 in 100 miles around LA.

      • 0 avatar
        dwford

        All I can say is that the Ford dealers I drive by have multiple Mach E’s parked out front in line, not like they are sold and waiting for delivery. The closest dealer to me has 10 in stock all by itself.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          Wow, can’t keep anything in stock but *ten* sit there on the front line.

          This is my shocked face :D

          Kinda like when my buddy told me of 21 new cars at his local Ford dealer that 18 were EcoSports. Can’t seem to give them away.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            My local dealer has sold all of the Mach E’s I’ve seen on the lot. Last time I drove by they had zero.

        • 0 avatar
          dal20402

          Meanwhile, the closest dealer to me has 29 regular Mustangs and 2 Mach Es. (And the #2 closest dealer has none of either in stock.)

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Sounds like Ford’s dealers need to start talking to each other and rearrange inventories.

        • 0 avatar
          Mustangfast

          Where is this? In metro atlanta the only ones at any dealer are either “ service loaners” that can’t be sold, or awaiting customer pickup.

        • 0 avatar
          mcs

          @dwford: Aren’t you in Connecticut? I’m not far away. A Mach E and the Bolt are by no means at the top of my list for a daily driver, but at huge discounts, my priority can shift very quickly. A half-price 2022 Bolt is probably $18k or less. After my state rebate, that’s $15,500 for a new car. It’s hard for me to say no to a good deal.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I could see the Mach selling very well at $30K or thereabouts, but Ford would be taking a bath on every unit at that price. I can’t see them being so desperate.

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      You don’t see jack shit

  • avatar
    ajla

    They don’t necessarily need to dump incentives onto the vehicle purchase itself but they do need to do something to encourage a major charging infrastructure expansion and lower BEV costs.

    You can’t ban your way into compliance on this stuff. A large majority of people like the idea of conservation but it needs to be virtually painless in practice to be a success. There aren’t enough people open to accepting austerity policy and lifestyle sacrifices to win national elections. All “chose the stick” will do is ensure you end up with the other party in control.

    • 0 avatar
      dwford

      A great subsidy would be for the government to just make the cost of a home EV charger install fully refundable. Right now it varies. Personally I’d need to upgrade my panel first, which would be expensive.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        How about no more corporates welfare on these white elephants and gov’t just do nothing for one year. Tesla is doing well and now actual competitive models are coming online (F-150 EV, Silverado EV) instead of just also-rans like Leaf. Just wait twelve months and see how it goes.

  • avatar
    redapple

    Corey:

    Obama IS the President- right now.

    • 0 avatar
      kjhkjlhkjhkljh kljhjkhjklhkjh

      Thank god … this country could not survive another day of tRUMP

    • 0 avatar

      “Obama IS the President- right now.”

      He learned few things from Putin.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        Today’s opinion. Seriously, heard just today. “Why west labels Putin as autocrat”?. Because he follows on his promises. Western leaders always rollback their promises, stifled by the parliaments behind.

        I remember Trump promised term limits in Congress…. Who said, “you can keep your doctor”?

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          ” “Why west labels Putin as autocrat”?. Because he follows on his promises. ”

          Yup, he promises polonium and novichok for opponents and dissidents. Then the promise of long-term accommodations in a gulag in Siberia. Then there are tried and true promises of torture and shootings.

          Yup. He keeps his promises.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Lou, all your claims remain that. Something you’ve read. AKA disinformation. Why don’t you read actual reports from organizations that investigated this. Because you know, using polonium and/or novichok on the territory of a foreign state like UK is an act of war. But UK officials never presented the evidence, only newspaper hysteria. Same with latest “incident”. Read the report and you will see that it is never says anything like “traces of novichok were found”. you’re so naive.

            When Russians needed to take out a guy, named Khattab, they laced a letter to him from his mother with poison and he died few days after holding it in his hands. Get it?

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @slavuto – once again you prove that you are Putin’s shill.

            Bye bye bozo

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            It is even funny to hear this form totally incompetent person like you. I operate with facts. You operate with BS. Last I can recall Putin was still KGB operative in Germany when I was in US. I don’t know how our ways even crossed, even indirectly. I never lived in Russia, let alone Putin’s Russia.
            You don’t have ANY evidence and this is the bottom line. And how we call people who operate with their mouth only? You pick

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @slavuta – I don’t see you posting on the majority of apolitical threads. You always kizz Putin’s azz. Add to that heading down the path of homophobia and xenophobia.

            I don’t see you standing on any mountain top yelling, “God Bless America”.

            Oh and why does your communication style, grammar and syntax change so much?

            If your posts aren’t deliberate, then that means you are as bright as 1157 drawing from a dead battery.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            What was that? A standard catalog of cliches of leftist?

            “God blessed America”? I feel like God punishes it right now. But I do wear my Land Of Free jersey and unlike my traitorous township, will have fireworks anyways.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @slavuto – which one are you…Oh yeah, the one that can’t spell or communicate.

            And why is your township traitorous?

            This aught to be entertaining.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            Slavuta posts on an actual car thread every now and then…typically to tell us how great decades old sh!tbox Mazdas are.

  • avatar
    Greg Hamilton

    Instead of arguing about politics constantly, why doesn’t this website interview someone like this who is actually investigating alternative power sources and vehicles:
    “https://www.youtube.com/user/150MilesPerGallon”

    • 0 avatar
      jpolicke

      Because people are as likely to commute to work on an electric scooter pulling a trailer made of solar panels as they are to go Amish. FFS, get serious.

      • 0 avatar
        Greg Hamilton

        That person also mentions the technology found in this car, which I am sure you would find interesting:
        https://www.legendarycollectorcars.com/featured-vehicles/other-feature-cars/smokey-yunicks-hot-vapor-fiero-51-mpg-and-0-60-in-less-than-6-seconds-see-and-hear-it-run-in-our-exclusive-video/

    • 0 avatar
      dukeisduke

      Trying to sell something?

    • 0 avatar
      bullnuke

      OOOh! I know dat guy! He was advertising the 150mpg carburetors back in the ’60’s and ’70’s! He’s “just around the corner” again these days with the savior of the planet 450-mile, 7-minute recharge batteries.

      • 0 avatar
        Greg Hamilton

        Here is another car Smokey built–the famous 1966 Chevelle for Daytona,

        “https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZSMtFf2Yhk”

        never got to race though, and that is a story in itself.

  • avatar
    ollicat

    What makes me so mad is that this has NOTHING to do with carbon emissions but everything to do with control. They know it will be impossible for a sufficient charging infrastructure to be built by then. On top of that, the environmental impact of battery creation and eventual disposal is astronomical. Electric cars are great for elites who live in nice houses with garages and a reliable place to charge. But what about all the people who live in the cities who park on streets or parking garages, etc. Are we going to have a charging station at every single location where someone might leave a car? That would be impossible. This is such Pollyanna thinking. If people really just cared about the environment, push hybrids. That would cut our emissions in half and still leave us with the freedom we enjoy and save trillions of dollars in creating a, never will be finished, electrical grid for EV’s

    • 0 avatar
      Luke42

      The fast-charging infrastructure you’re likely referring to is just for road trips.

      You recharge EVs at home while you sleep, and you choose an EV with sufficient range for your daily activities + a comfortable safety margin.

      If your home does not have electric service, then perhaps an EV is not for you.

      For the rest of us, going to an EV removes an external decency from our household (gasoline + electricity -> electricity). That basically means less control, and more independence.

  • avatar
    ollicat

    What makes me so mad is that this has NOTHING to do with carbon emissions but everything to do with control. They know it will be impossible for a sufficient charging infrastructure to be built by then, if ever. On top of that, the environmental impact of battery creation and eventual disposal is astronomical. Electric cars are great for elites who live in nice houses with garages and a reliable place to charge. But what about all the people who live in the cities who park on streets or parking garages, etc. Are we going to have a charging station at every single location where someone might leave a car? That would be impossible. This is such Pollyanna thinking. If people really just cared about the environment, push hybrids. That would cut our emissions in half and still leave us with the freedom we enjoy and save trillions of dollars in creating an impossible to finish and trillions of wasted dollars electrical grid for EV’s

  • avatar
    jalop1991

    I think it was Pat Bedard years ago who pointed out that rather than chasing year over year after some 0.nothing percent decrease in tailpipe emissions, it would be FAR cheaper and FAR more effective simply to confiscate all the old daily drivers that are being held together with duct tape and bailing wire, and spewing noxious emissions, and replace them with brand new Cadillacs.

    But logic was never a strong suit of politicians.

    • 0 avatar
      Astigmatism

      People don’t like having their stuff confiscated. Go figure.

      And when the Obama administration had a program to buy these cars off the roads, I don’t recall this site being a fan.

    • 0 avatar
      Kendahl

      If I remember correctly, during cash for clunkers, there was a limit on the age of the vehicles accepted. It didn’t include a 50-year-old ones. Many relatively new vehicles, with fairly modern emission controls, were scrapped while carbureted junkers from the ’70s and earlier were left on the road.

      • 0 avatar
        Luke42

        Are those antiques being used as daily drivers?

        I’d be surprised if they were being driven much. They’re mostly project cars and show cars. Getting rid of those wouldn’t accomplish anything — and we might as well keep them around for fun and historical preservation!

      • 0 avatar
        Art Vandelay

        Yes…the real problem is Jay Leno’s fleet of Duesenbergs…not all of the 90s Buicks with check engine lights that have been on since the Clinton administration idling in traffic.

  • avatar
    Master Baiter

    I’d like to tell Biden where to put his carrot.

  • avatar
    Art Vandelay

    Again he does exactly what he said he was going to do. If you can’t afford an EV after all this shakes out than enjoy the bus. You can ride secure in the knowledge that your guy won. No grumbling though…you voted for it.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    “There’s the free-market philosophy, which says the market will get there on its own. There’s the incentive philosophy, which suggests incentivizing consumers will accelerate the transition away from the internal combustion engine. Consider that one to be the carrot approach.

    Finally, we have the philosophy that if regulations don’t force automakers to make more EVs, they won’t, at least not quickly enough to address climate change. The free market and/or incentives won’t be enough.

    Guess which philosophy President Joe Biden seems to be embracing?”

    Gee, even Stevie Wonder saw that coming, but why a stick though? Why take such an approach unless you’re afraid your BS will crash and burn hard? Why is there a near obsession with pushing this? Manbearpig isn’t enough of a reason for the amount of money and energy spent on this, so what is?

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    When has any industry done the hard thing without either a carrot or a stick?

    No company altruistically spends money to make its products safer or better, unless a) they can market it, or b) they are forced to.

    – Industrial accidents are always followed by new oversight.
    – Aviation accidents are always followed by new oversight.
    – Creative financial crimes are always followed by new oversight.
    – It took the new (1970) EPA to force automakers into cleaning up pollution. The mfr’s whining continues to this day, yet today we have vehicles that are orders of magnitude better, safer, and cleaner in every way – and at a far better value.

    The libertarian in me rejects more oversight, but the pragmatist in me says that’s the only way to accelerate EV adoption. Either way, I don’t support subsidies.

    But most importantly, all of this assumes that global warming is The Problem, and that widespread EV adoption is The Answer. I don’t happen to believe either of those things, despite my affection for EV technology.

  • avatar
    Rick Astley

    The most amazing part of this news to me was that Biden has greenlighted Nuclear reactor construction.

    Given that the entire Western seaboard is scheduled to see brown-outs this summer as they have decommissioned coal or hydro energy production, what is each state going to need, one or two new reactors?

    Having 1960’s nuclear technology has been horrific for the US over the past 30+ years but Biden is finally making that push to produce enough energy to convert our entire personal transportation infrastructure to electric, this is HUGE!!!!!!!

    **wait** It’s just pushing EV’s to be made with zero effort to have a viable grid to support that?

    Then what are we really talking about here? Unicorns and healing crystals?

    • 0 avatar
      Astigmatism

      The infrastructure deal the White House just signed up to with a bipartisan group in the Senate includes $73 billion of power grid spending. Biden’s original $2 trillion proposal included a lot more than that, but obviously the entire plan has been scaled back from the original proposal in order to win approval in a 50-50 Senate.

  • avatar
    jeanbaptiste

    Wait, if we want to really affect climate change how about we incentivize all the work that goes to China and bring it here to the US. Even the evil trump saw that was the solution.

  • avatar

    You “elected” him, now enjoy. But I agree with him. Make ICE illegal and everybody stays at home forever together.

  • avatar
    Ol Shel

    Man has completely effed the climate, because despite his ability to ‘reason’, his status as mammal compels him to be greedy and short-sighted.

    There are billions of gasoline cars left for you to drive. Quit whining. Any steps toward reversing the destruction of the planet are imperative.

    Humans also hate change. You opposed emancipation, suffrage, civil rights, interracial marriage, LGBTQ rights, school integration, and on and on. NONE of your doomsday predictions about those came true. You act out of fear, and are always proven wrong. You never learn.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      I wonder, when there will be civil responsibilities? Send everyone to military service. Everyone. Military has real tendency to fix brain properly.
      Interracial marriage could be a problem. And IS the worst thing that happened to Jewish people, for example. The whole culture is just melting away in countries like US, Russia, Germany. Only in Israel it is still well and alive.
      LGBTQ rights became oppression. Nobody cares what you do, just don’t touch us already. A friend of my friend looks 15 years older than he is – his daughter became a boy and son became a girl. What a tragedy for him! <- this IS a doomsday for a family!

      Climate. Go to India. Step into any river. Lets see how long you will live. To save climate you need to clear out 70% of Asia. You can leave Japan alone, they are going into the negative for a long time.

      • 0 avatar
        toronado

        just don’t touch us already? I imagine you have very little to worry about on that front. I also imagine many Jews would put the holocaust ahead of interracial marriage as far as bad things go.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          @toronado:

          Yeah, the guy who supposedly fought alongside the f**king Taliban definitely knows what’s best for Jews.

          Without intermarriage, I wouldn’t exist.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          “just don’t touch us already?”

          Insecure wimp with a tiny schmeckle.

          Somehow I doubt there’s a lineup of people wanting to have sex with you, female or otherwise.

          “A friend of my friend” I know a friend who knows a friend….LOL

          Your alleged friend of a friend is an idiot.

          So what?

          Orientation isn’t a choice.

          “The whole culture is just melting away in countries like US, Russia, Germany”

          Translation… “I can’t stand the fact that people grow, mature and accept others for who they are”.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Lou,

            if my friend is an idiot, only because he should of divorced his wife and saved the children.

            Hey Lou, do you know how many Chinese out there? Tell Italians that all of them need to intermarry Chinese. They will kill you. They want Italian culture to go forward. Many nations don’t want to mix to protect their culture – Hungary, Slovakia, Poland, China, Japan. Japan population will be decreasing with speed. They don’t want any immigration still. It is actually extremely tough to get Japanese passport. I know one guy who managed this.

            You don’t understand the problem. Sure, if you want Jews to disappear, yea, lets keep intermarriage and in 3 generations they will be gone. Another example where your progressive thinking is deadly for a unique ethnic group.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “Many nations don’t want to mix to protect their culture”

            White, predominantly Christian. AKA white Supremacy.

            Not much to protect really.

            Mitochondrial DNA indicates most of us share a common maternal ancestor.

            Canada does rather well by embracing multiculturalism. Sure, a minority of white nationalists don’t like it, sucks to be them.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Toronado,

          you and Mike here, both are seriously incompetent in historical developments of Jewish population. Without spending time, let me show a story that is applicable to many many Jewish groups.

          Quote:
          “My uncle is married to a Jewish woman, my wife is Armenian and my daughter-in-law is a Russian…” And Irina Magarshak admitted that both her daughters live in Moscow with their non-Jewish husbands.”

          You can read this here https://www.jta.org/2005/09/28/lifestyle/breakaway-jewish-sect-shrinks-in-ukraine

          Now, NYT, By Alan Dershovitz
          “…American Jews–as a people–have never been in greater danger of disappearing through assimilation, intermarriage, and low birthrates.”
          https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/first/d/dershowitz-jew.html

          And I, as somebody who came from Ukrainian town, can assure you, I have witnessed this process. I did not read these articles ever before saying what I said. Intermarriage is a death for Jewish culture rather than freedom of any kind. The only places where this culture survives is Israel and Jewish Orthodox community, may be, parts ob Brooklyn NY.

          Hey Mike, do you speak Yiddish?… I thought so. Those who came here to Ellis Island spoke Yiddish. And for sometime actually married within community. Not anymore. And this is the road end.

          • 0 avatar
            toronado

            You think people should not intermarry- really? Protecting the master race? Seems to me that variety is what America is about, and I for one am glad for diversity. I bet you really liven up a party with your broad minded views.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            @toronado:

            So says Borat here, Chief Master Expert on All Things Jewish.

            Let’s see him walk into a Reform, Conservative or even Orthodox shul sometime and lecture everyone on how they’re not really Jewish because they’re not part of the Crown Heights Black-hatter squad. LOL…hope someone’s livestreaming that one.

            Come to think of it, though…he’d probably fit right in with the Crown Heights wackos.

    • 0 avatar
      johnnyz

      Yeah, a doomsday prediction by Al Gore the father of all this nonsense. Rising sea levels will destroy Florida oceanfront by 2010 or some such.

      Meanwhile algore buys a big fat ocean front property.

      All bs.

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      Oh look…another goober that opposes my politics but has no problem taking that greasy hand full of my money every April.

      I didn’t oppose any of those things BTW nor did anyone I know honestly. Nice broad brush there.

      Honestly though, I don’t care. If this all comes to pass I’ll get a nice EV (with a break on my taxes to boot most likely)

      If you can’t afford one, well…too bad. Make better life choices I guess.

      Of course most won’t…they’ll just show up with both hands out next April loudly proclaiming their predicament is somehow my or anyone not themselves’ fault.

      • 0 avatar
        JD-Shifty

        go live somewhere without taxes.

        • 0 avatar
          Art Vandelay

          Go pay some taxes. And lets be honest, I already live somewhere without taxes…at least for rougly half of the populace. I guess I don’t mind letting them feel like they’ve won once a year.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            A dude filled his tax form. Under dependents he wrote: township workers, welfare recipients, road construction workers…
            He received it back with “incorrect information”

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    So…a couple of days ago, when this writer published a piece that hinted that his political orientation was even mildly left-of-center, the MAGA 4Ever crowd collectively lost its’ excrement, complete with the usual “I hate this site because it’s political,” “you just hate Trump,” “socialism,” and “media bias” bleatings.

    But when the same writer puts up something critical of Biden, the collective outrage from the same folks feels…well, kind of muted. It’s almost as if – glory be! – all that excrement they lost the other day sprouted legs and crawled back up into their innards.

    I guess to folks like this, “intellectual dishonesty” means “someone has the unmitigated gall to disagree with me.”

    (And, yes, it does seem like more stick than carrot. No, it doesn’t mean Biden is taking anyone’s f**king car away because – listen closely for a new, radical idea – people tend to vote against politicians who take their stuff away. Doesn’t matter if it’s cars, guns, reproductive rights, you name it.)

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @FreedMike – it’s easier i.e. intellectually lazy to jump straight to labels. All the faux outrage gets the adrenaline flowing. Dopamine surges in the brain and they feel good about standing their ground. They don’t have much of a clue but hey, they stood their ground.

  • avatar
    stuki

    “Look, the future of the auto industry is electric. There’s no turning back,”

    The world’s dumbest man has spoken! And those even dumber have cheered and pumped their fists! In exuberant joy, from being told Dear Leader’s lackeys have deemed, found, held and arbitrarily drummed up yet another childbrained excuse for harassing other peoples children!

    Now, what could possibly be more important for the future of a run amuck financialized dystopia, in ecstatic thrall to “from the competent and productive, to the incompetent and connected,” than that?

  • avatar
    Daniel J

    All the while the grids in most states are failing.

    And of course we have batteries getting stored and set on fire.

    I could get behind EVs if we can get more nuclear and fix our power grids. If we can get states to adopt a transition from using taxes in gas to support infrastructure. Getting rid of the child labor and mining of minerals used for batteries

    Then maybe I could get behind EV regulation/mandate.

    • 0 avatar
      mcs

      “All the while the grids in most states are failing.”
      They need to be fixed regardless of EVs.

      “And of course we have batteries getting “stored and set on fire.”
      solid-state batteries don’t have those issues.

      “Getting rid of the child labor and mining of minerals used for batteries”

      They’ve eliminated cobalt from most cells now. GM just signed to a contract for lithium from the Salton Sea geothermal fields. If that isn’t enough, just wait for improved sodium-ion batteries.

      https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/02/gm-moves-to-secure-critical-us-sourced-lithium-for-electric-vehicles.html

      https://www.faradion.co.uk/technology-benefits/sustainable-technology/

      Then maybe I could get behind EV regulation/mandate.

      • 0 avatar
        Art Vandelay

        The Salton Sea deal is a win win. GM managed to find the one place on the planet that the notoriously dirty process of mining lithium may actually manage to improve the environment of.

        If you end up with a bunch of protestors screaming about “protecting Nature’s beauty” like they do at places like ANWR you can simply lock them up in an asylum because clearly they are crazy. The Salton Sea is a craphole

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          That’s actually impressive, gotta give the RenCen folks credit where its due. A nice bonus is since the Salton Sea is located in CA, both CA and GM get propaganda points for the project.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            Hopefully they use the opportunity to stabilize and clean up the place. As the sea dries out the lakebed is exposing some nasty chemicals that then are blown around. It is a real mess and has been for a long time.

        • 0 avatar
          Flipper35

          Even with the settling ponds there is still a ton of crap going into the sea coming from outside the US.

  • avatar
    Greg Hamilton

    Here is another car Smokey built the famous 1966 Chevelle for Daytona,

    “https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZSMtFf2Yhk”

    never got to race though, and that is a story in itself.

  • avatar
    craiger

    How about stop telling people what to do?

    But wait, you have to do what you’re told, or else the earth will die.

    If that’s the argument, then where is the line drawn? Who won’t try to use that justification for whatever it is under the sun that they’d like to do?

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    Until there is widespread infrastructure to support for going all EVs then EVs become more of a toy for the well off and unattainable for the average person. Not having enough infrastructure to charge, not having more affordable and long range batteries, and not having the power grid structure or using cleaner more efficient power generating such as nuclear energy make EVs not a viable choice for most. Maybe eventually EVs will be the choice for most but until all the previous things that I mentioned have been addressed then EVs are not a choice for most. How about for now the Government encourages more hybrid vehicles which are available now and will not affect the power grid and can be bought at more affordable prices. The new hybrid Maverick is a vehicle that I would buy now and not have to worry about affordability and infrastructure. 40 mpg sounds like a good start for a compact truck and there is the Prius and other hybrids available. My 2012 Buick Lacrosse Eassist gets up to 36 mpg–true not 40 or 50 mpgs but much better than many suvs and trucks at 20 mpgs or less and much cleaner. The Government should start with more hybrid vehicles being available from the manufacturers which is something that most manufacturers can do now and not worry as much about if it will sell.

    • 0 avatar
      mcs

      “for going all EVs”
      We’re talking years in the future for those deadlines.

      ” having more affordable and long-range batteries,”
      Early versions of what I think will be that battery, sodium-ion, are going into production. Solid-state sodium-ion will be the next step. It will be a few years away, but the first solid-state lithium-ions should be in mass production with sodium-ion solid-state following on. Sodium-ion is ready for storage applications which will be a tremendous help in improving the grid. Wasted off-hours power can be stored in cheap sodium-ion batteries.

      “become more of a toy for the well off ”
      They absolutely are not toys. My toys are ICE, but my daily driver is an EV. I’ve been an EV driver since 2014. It’s not just a toy. You can do daily driving and long-distance with one. I just saw a California plated Model S today in central Vermont. Not a toy. Try taking one of my ICE toys coast-to-coast and you’ll see what a toy really is. No luggage space. Will use about 2% of the strategic oil reserve in fuel. You want to talk about toys for the rich.

      ” unattainable for the average person.”
      I don’t see that. The average person can probably afford a house with space to install an outdoor NEMA-50 outlet for a charger. They can probably afford a 35k EV. They might have less than a 50-mile commute. However, I do admit I’m probably out of touch as to what is average these days and I think I could be wrong. When I think of average, I think of middle class. Maybe they are much worse off than I think. I don’t know.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    For me an EV would be a toy especially those 60k and up. Unless you buy a Leaf most EVs are out of the price range of the average person. As for driving coast to coast I would rather drive a modern ICE vehicle than have to wait to charge an EV after a couple of hundred miles unless I was taking a leisurely trip and had enough time to wait for a charge.

    If everyone is supposed to eventually drive an EV then where do you charge your vehicle if you do not have a garage? I don’t think you would be able to use an extension cord to charge. A Mustang Mach E or a Tesla are not affordable to most and few of the EVs available are priced at 35k. Before I would even consider an EV it has to be closer in price to an ICE vehicle and there would have to be more infrastructure to support EVs. I am not saying I would never buy an EV because I probably will at some point but it would probably be more than a decade before I would consider one and that would be if the infrastructure was expanded.

    As for today a hybrid is a more affordable and practical alternative for most. I currently have a mild hybrid and would consider the new Maverick truck with its base hybrid 4 cylinder front wheel drive as an alternative especially at its affordable price. I currently have a Ranger so I don’t really need or want a big truck nor do I need AWD or 4×4 since my wife had a 2013 CRV AWD. Since I mostly work at home and since COVID-19 my mileage has gone down to about 5k the past year which would not justify spending 50k or more that most EVs are selling for and if I were to buy an EV it would probably be a Bolt or a Leaf since they are the more affordable EVs. I would never buy a Tesla with their below average build quality and being limited to having to have any repairs limited to just authorized Tesla service even after the warranty has expired.

  • avatar
    craiger

    It takes 3-5 minutes on average to fill a gas tank, and there are still often lines at gas stations. My local Costco station has 16 pumps, and I still wait 10 minutes sometimes. What happens when there are millions of EVs and it takes 30 minutes just to get a decent amount of juice, let alone a full charge?

    I lived in the upper east side of Manhattan for 25 years, and I owned four cars in that time frame. How and where would people in locales like that charge their EVs?

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      “What happens when there are millions of EVs and it takes 30 minutes just to get a decent amount of juice, let alone a full charge?”

      :Most of those EVs will be charging at home, and many of the rest at work. The ones that can’t charge at either place will charge at L3 chargers installed in parking lots at places like supermarkets, where people go regularly and tend to stay a while.

      “How and where would people in locales like that charge their EVs?” Someone paying $400k for a private parking spot isn’t going to be too concerned with the additional $2k or so to install a charger in it. Parking on the street is going to be steadily less of an option as Manhattan continues to grow and street space is devoted to things that benefit more people in such a dense environment (like loading zones, bus and bike lanes, and space for common trash receptacles to get the damn piles of trash off the sidewalks).

      • 0 avatar
        TCowner

        dal20402

        Keep drinking the Koolaid – do you seriously think employers are going to put chargers all over their parking lots. WHO is going to fund these? Much less in public places.

        Puppet Biden will keep repeating this BS mantra through the teleprompter until the mid-terms (at best) or 2024.

        • 0 avatar
          dal20402

          Yes, for the same reason that they put fancy coffee makers in their break rooms and showers in their bathrooms. L2 chargers, which are all people need at work, are dirt-cheap and will be a nice perk for city-dwelling employees. My employer’s parking garage already has three in it. They are oversubscribed and more are on the way.

          L3 chargers in the right public places (especially supermarket and mall lots) will be insanely profitable and will grow organically as the installed base of EVs does.

  • avatar
    CoastieLenn

    I could be terribly wrong here, but I mainly see two common responses to people that bring valid questions of attainability/usability of EV’s in less-than-ideal situations (ie: rural areas without huge charging availability or even in bustling downtown areas where street parking is required). The most common responses are the rather sophomoric “if you can’t afford it, sucks to be you” (seriously, this sentiment is present in no less than 10 of the comments on this article) and “if you’re paying $XYZ for a home in that area, you can afford $X for a charging interface.” I’m sure most see the issue with the first comment, but the second one is rather more complex, and just as concerning as the rural area customer. Charging interfaces may NOT BE AN OPTION, finances aside. This question is typically deflected to some other, barely relevant point but never really offered much of a solution for.

    And the biggest issue that I can see many people having with President Biden and his ilk right now is that they’re doing their best to make ABSOLUTELY certain that people don’t have a choice. They’re *mandating* the future of the automobile, not creating it thru demand and innovation. The groundwork is being laid for further tightening control over ICE vehicles. 20 years from now, the likely majority of the population will still be reliant on ICE vehicles to get around for more than just the reason of “I can’t afford it.” The players on the hill are seemingly bastardizing not only the vehicle, they’re bastardizing peoples ability to determine what’s best for their needs, in their situations, in their locations at that time. The statement “The future of the automobile is electric” by the most powerful person in our country only helps to prove my point.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      Khrushchev came to America ans saw corn. He became corn-obsessed. https://www.amazon.com/Corn-Crusade-Khrushchevs-Revolution-Post-Stalin/dp/0190644672

      It did not work well to say the least. If politicians learned anything…

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