By on February 8, 2021

Screenshot Jeep SB ad

Last night’s Super Bowl got out of hand about as quickly as the newsman fight in Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy.

This meant that I, watching the game home alone since Super Bowl parties aren’t safe these days, turned to the ads to keep myself entertained. Sadly, with a few exceptions, most were as stinky as the game itself.

The ones that were supposed to be funny mostly weren’t, the emotional/inspirational ones were mostly fine but unmemorable, and the one that was so bad that I think it was intentionally terrible for the sake of virality was just annoying.

Sure, a couple of them made me giggle. Cheetos was good – hey there, Shaggy! – and the Bud Light Legends ad made me chortle. There were others I liked, but overall, the body of work from the ad world was bad.

When it came to the car ads, the GM/Norway one with Will Ferrell got a minor laugh out of me, while the Cadillac Edgar Scissorhands spot gets points for effort if not execution. But the Jeep ad was the one generating buzz from the minute it made its way online before the game.

It featured Bruce Springsteen, doing what is billed as his first ad ever, driving around in a Jeep, talking about how this country could come together in the name of unity.

[Ed. note: Yes, this article touches on cars and politics. Please play nice in the comments if you don’t want to face the banhammer.]

[Second Ed. note, dated 02/11/2021 — The ad has been pulled from YouTube due to Springsteen being arrested for DWI in 2020. If and when we can replace the video, we will do so.]

In normal times, that would be a perfectly fine sentiment to express. A divided country, a Congress that struggles to get anything done in a bipartisan manner, distasteful rhetoric polluting the discourse … yeah, I think most reasonable people would be exhausted by the divisiveness and ready for some unity.

Except the problem is that a fringe element isn’t interested in unity. Part of that element, driven at least in part by misinformation and disinformation, refuses to believe the factual truth regarding who won the 2020 presidential election. Part of that element stormed the United States Capitol in an attempt to overthrow a democratic election. It was an insurrection. On American soil.

Read the last bit again and let it sink in. I’ll wait.

Good, you’re back. I want to make something absolutely clear here. I am not calling out an entire side of the political aisle for the actions of a small percent of the population. I know many Republicans/conservatives, including Trump supporters, accept the results of the election. I know others might worry about voter fraud (something that is nearly nonexistent in this country) but they wouldn’t storm the Capitol. I know plenty of those on the political right think QAnon is cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.

I also know there are fringe elements on the left that aren’t interested in unity at all, either, although there’s an asymmetry at play at the moment.

I’m fully aware the percentage of the population that has broken with reality is relatively small (though seriously vocal). Just to reiterate from above: I am not here to point fingers at everyone on any one side of the political aisle. That would be factually inaccurate. I know there are reasonable conservatives out there who want unity and bipartisan compromise where possible.

My point is simply that it’s difficult, if not impossible, for reasonable people with reasonable disagreements to come together in a show of unity when a small but very vocal part of the population has been sucked into a vortex of unreality and is willing to storm the nation’s Capitol building because they didn’t get their way in a free and fair election. There’s no room for compromise with people who literally will resort to violence to avoid it.

You really can’t compromise with folks who wear a “Camp Auschwitz” hoodie or carry the Confederate flag in the U.S. Capitol.

Not to mention that compromise is incredibly difficult when people are living in an alternate reality.

I don’t blame Jeep for trying. The sentiment is well-intentioned. And maybe it would’ve worked if we were simply divided, as an electorate, over how best to govern the nation. If we were fighting over healthcare, or taxes, or even hot-button cultural issues.

Instead, we’re fighting over reality.

I saw screenshots of angry Jeep owners on Twitter last night – angry that an anodyne plea for unity made Jeep “political.” Of course, that’s not what they were really angry about – it should go without saying that the ad was referring to politics. Springsteen even mentioned it in the ad. What angered them is that the call for unity seemed, to them, to be a rebuke of their politics.

Those folks are too upset at being called out for a type of grievance politics that drives the divisiveness to be interested in any sort of harmony.

Perhaps some were irritated that Springsteen himself hasn’t been shy to express political views that conflict with theirs.

Unity requires good-faith efforts on all sides. At least one extreme but influential element of our politics has shown no interest in that kind of good-faith effort. Until they do, calls for unity sound nice but are utterly meaningless.

Politics aside, I also am not sure how this sells Jeeps. I guess the subtext is that whether we’re left, right, or center we can all agree Jeeps are cool? Or that Jeep – and by extension the other FCA/Stellantis brands – want to cultivate good relationships with customers of all political stripes?

I suppose Jeep has customers from all over the political spectrum – I asked but the company didn’t have data on customers’ political affiliations it could share. I understand the desire to produce a feel-good ad with the intent of painting Jeep as a brand that the car-buying public can turn to as a refuge from our wearying politics.

After all, when you’re stuck in the muck and a Wrangler tows you out, no one cares who voted for who. Unless the rescuer is just being a jerk to the one knee-deep in mud.

Thing is, if a brand or its associated lifestyle is your only refuge, our country’s discourse is more broken than I thought. We won’t have unity if people can only put their differences aside on the trails.

More to the point, Jeep and The Boss can call for unity until they’re as blue in the face as Bruce looked in that video (topless Jeep in the cold – brrr). It won’t matter unless those of us who are reasonable can compromise with our ideological opposites without interference from the extremists.

That is a problem that no one company, not even Jeep, can solve.

[Image: Screenshot via YouTube]

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249 Comments on “Opinion: Jeep’s Super Bowl Ad Won’t Unite Us...”


  • avatar
    Cicero

    Hiring Bruce Springsteen to yammer about being united is some funny stuff after he’s spent the last 20 years heaping all the hate and invective he could muster on the dumb rubes who aren’t reliable Democrat voters.

    I think this could strategy could catch on. In the same clever marketing vein, maybe Cadillac should hire cruise ship captain Francesco Schettino to talk about its advances in autonomous driving.

    • 0 avatar
      EBFlex

      Very well said.

    • 0 avatar
      cdrmike

      Yep, there were a few hundred loons that trump stirred up, who did some remarkably stupid things. Now, about those “mostly peaceful” dem protesters….

      • 0 avatar
        Luke42

        “Now, about those “mostly peaceful” dem protesters….”

        The non-violent protest movement is very careful about not pushing things too far. For instance, the hundreds of thousands of people who did march peacefully in support of Black Lives Matter, and they didn’t breach any state or federal capital buildings.

        This is a deliberate choice, going back to the 1960s, for many good reasons.

        This choice is why racial equity protesters aren’t being arrested en-masse the way the Conservatives who stormed the capital building are. The protest organizers have done everything they can to keep the peace (though they’re not always successful, especially when the police attack the crowd as they did most nights in Portland).

        The bottom line is that racial justice protesters say things like “hands up, don’t shoot” instead of telling a crowd that they have to have a “trial by combat”.

        There is a moral difference there, and this moral difference was a deliberate moral choice by protest leaders decades ago. If you contrast Martin Luther King’s “I Have a Dream” with the words of Rudy Giuliani and Donald Trump on January 6th — the moral difference is very clear.

        • 0 avatar
          Rick T.

          “The non-violent protest movement is very careful about not pushing things too far.”
          —————
          “Dozens of people were killed or injured in the violent unrest, and thousands of businesses and properties, many minority-owned, were looted, torched, or otherwise vandalized.

          Only now are we beginning to realize the full cost of the destruction. New reporting from Axios reveals that the total insured property losses incurred during the George Floyd riots will come in at $1 billion to $2 billion.”

          https://fee.org/articles/george-floyd-riots-caused-record-setting-2-billion-in-damage-new-report-says-here-s-why-the-true-cost-is-even-higher/

          And that’s just the INSURED property losses which many of the small businesses destroyed did not likely have. And probably greater numbers than that did not have business continuation insurance. I would hate to see what your definition of a “little too far” might be!

          • 0 avatar
            Luke42

            They haven’t been successful at controlling the crowd, especially when the police are fighting the protesters rather than keeping order.

            Still, I’m not too upset over property damage. Remember that the reason for the protests is that police officers have a license to kill, and that many officers use it indiscriminately.

            Yeah, the property damage shouldn’t happen, and the protest organizers do their best to prevent it. However, preventing that is something a competent and professional law enforcement organization could happen — and the lack of that is why they’re protesting. What do you expect to happen?

            Any discussion about BLM which fails to acknowledge the basic issue is going to leave you confused and unable to solve the problem.

            Yeah, the property damage shouldn’t happen. But, you know what? It’s not that big of a deal compared to the deaths which are being protested.

            It’s really not too much to ask for competence and professionalism from police. My employer requires the same from me.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            They are fighting many of those protesters because the people watching their property and livelyhood be destroyed have rights too.

  • avatar
    tomLU86

    You have the microphone Mr. Healey.

    If you say it, it must be true.

    Did you say anything about the mobs that trashed the cities in 2020 years? Are they fringe elements? Or are they righteous anger, and whatever collateral damage, in lives or property, so be it.

    Jeep ran a commercial, ostensibly to hawk their 4700-lb gas-guzzling Wranglers, and threw in a “Re-United”. When exactly did America “dis-unite”? Was it 2016? Or 2008? Or 2000? It was a thinly veiled “Biden won, let’s rally around whatever he and his party says and does, no matter how moronic, or how much it adversely affects YOU”.

    Trump, despite his countless personality flaws, almost won. He may have won–we will never know. We do know that most every media outlet, including you, were biased against him.

    More Americans voted FOR Trump than for Biden. However, many more Americans voted AGAINST Trump, than against Biden. And that’s how most Americans voted: AGAINST what they perceived as the bigger of the evils.

    I think it would be fitting if the price of fuel goes to a Norway like $7 per gallon, aided and abetted by the “progressive geniuses” who are going to right all the wrongs, real and imagined.

    Let’s see how many gas-guzzling Jeeps Stellantis can sell then.

    • 0 avatar
      Cicero

      You’re exactly right. Trump may have won. We’ll never know for sure because the intrepid investigators of the media — our vaunted Watchdog of Democracy — have absolutely ZERO interest in pulling up that rock to look under it.

      It all makes me wonder how our host got such an inside track to “the FACTUAL TRUTH” — his phrase — that he can tar those who question the numerous vote counting discrepancies as a bunch of nutty conspiracy theorists who can’t be reasoned with.

      • 0 avatar
        Arthur Dailey

        Cicero, Over 60 rulings by an independent judiciary demonstrate that Biden won.

        The retractions of their claims by the media members who made claims of a stolen election when faced with lawsuits demonstrates that they did not have the evidence to win their claims in civil court, where they only had to prove ‘probability’.

        Unfortunately history has proven that a significant number of people believe a ‘big lie’. There are many in Russia who still believe Stalin was a ‘great’ leader despite his genocide and the fact that his actions seriously weakened the Soviet military prior to WWII.

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        Cicero,

        “pulling up that rock to look under it”

        If they are so darned sure the election was fair then why not have an investigation? I sure would if I thought I was so 110% sure of something — what would I have to lose?

        “the FACTUAL TRUTH”

        The factual truth is so much better than just the truth:-) Hopefully it has been thoroughly vetted by those helpful “fact checkers” (what a kooky concept…fact checkers).

    • 0 avatar
      Mike Beranek

      “He may have won–we will never know.”
      He didn’t, and we do know.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Neither did Kennedy and today that is pretty much established. Likely the same years from now when it won’t matter. “Elections”.

        https://chicago.suntimes.com/2020/12/16/22176920/jfk-stolen-1960-election-chicago-illinois

      • 0 avatar
        MeJ

        @Mike
        Finally someone who can deal with reality.
        This is mind boggling that people are still in denial…

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        Then the democrats should be pushing for an open, impartial and thorough investigation so they can shut up all those deniers. Right?

        That would be the way to do it once and for all. And show all those TrumPites how wrong they are.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          “Then the democrats should be pushing for an open, impartial and thorough investigation so they can shut up all those deniers. Right?”

          61 court visits and no wins for “stop the steal”.

          Right?

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            61 court visits and no wins for “stop the steal”.

            Right?”

            When you dismiss the cases in a procedural maneuver versus actually hearing the evidence and then making a decision, it really removes your argument of “no wins in court”

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            EBFlex,

            “Right?”

            Heck, you’ve got the evidence. Slam dunk ’em with the thorough investigation those denier think would prove them right and shut them up once and for all. That’s the way to do it.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @EBFlex – the “evidence” brought forward by tRump was idiotic. The majority of judges ruling against him were appointed by him.

            “Slam dunk ’em with the thorough investigation those denier think would prove them right”
            People will still deny.

            61 court losses.

            61…. 61.

            He lost.

            No fraud..

      • 0 avatar
        Dave M.

        Exactly. Despite the CONSTANT drum beating by the Chief Cheeto et al, people with half a leg in reality knew the truth. What I find perplexing was all the fuss about the flipped states, but not Texas and Florida, where many of the same adjustments were made to mail-in voting availability, and voting machines are prevalent. But I guess that didn’t fit Trump’s narrative.

    • 0 avatar
      trueamerican420

      This is an excellent take. Why isn’t Tim quick to condemn the mobs in Minneapolis? Or Kenosha? Or Portland? Or CHAZ in Seattle? It’s clear where this site’s views lie.
      Why is a site that purports to be about cars so supportive of candidates who want to ban them?

    • 0 avatar
      golden2husky

      …More Americans voted FOR Trump than for Biden. However, many more Americans voted AGAINST Trump, than against Biden. And that’s how most Americans voted: AGAINST what they perceived as the bigger of the evils…

      This is, IMHO, absolutely true. Consider 19% of the country actually considers Trump the best president ever in the modern era. I, like many, voted against Trump, not for Biden though I think so far so good. With so many people in this country, are these two really the best we can offer up?

      However, I vehemently disagree with comparing the Insurrection with the protests this summer. In the summer, the vast majority of the protestors were not violent, but some who *were* violent were acting out on the built-up frustration of decades of racial abuse/killings by the police. Some of course were just opportunists that didn’t give a crap about George Floyd but saw a chance to steal and destroy. Those who participated in the Insurrection were virtually all violent and they were there because their President told them to be there. I frankly understand them – if Trump managed to get states to flip votes like he asked them to do (on record) and was successful doing so, I’d be ripping mad and a massive countryside protest that would shut down our economy would be the right thing to do. But the insurrection was built on falsehoods – these people actually think the election was a massive fraud and they were there to win it back for their man. Imagine had those madmen found Pence or Pelosi – they would have torn them apart. Is this the America we are supposed to be proud of?

      • 0 avatar
        EBFlex

        “In the summer, the vast majority of the protestors were not violent”

        What planet are you living on? The Minneapolis riot alone was the most expensive in history.

        You’ve got your riots mixed up. The capital peaceful protest was tainted by a few people who entered the capital. The summer riots caused BILLIONS in damage. The biggest cost of the capital peaceful protest was a stolen lecturn.

        • 0 avatar
          Dave M.

          The cost to our country was far more than a stolen lectern. And that it radiated from the top made it inexcusable.

        • 0 avatar
          golden2husky

          “Capital Peaceful Protest”. Wow! Looks like America’s educational system is in major need of overhaul.

          BTW, there’s a hell of a difference for violence against murder and decades of injustice as opposed to fighting for the lies of the Orange Idiot.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            Then take the fight to the cops and the entities doing the oppressing. It cheapens it when you take the fight to local retailers instead.

          • 0 avatar
            golden2husky

            Art, I agree. The owner of a local store has nothing to do with it, but ultimately, much of America stood silent for decades and turned the other way, or perhaps may not have been fully aware of what was common knowledge in the black community until technology put it in our living rooms. Still it is wrong to destroy somebody’s business because you are in a rage. But that cuts both ways – the party of “law and order” that is “pro police” murdered Capitol police and desecrated our Capitol all in the name of a dictator.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            “the party of “law and order” that is “pro police” murdered Capitol police”

            I like your knee-jerk reactions that you buy from CNN. The officer who died
            1. was Trump supporter
            2. sent a message to his brother after the event saying – “I was sprayed a couple of times with a pepper spray, that’s all”
            3. died later of stroke
            4. never was hit with fire extinguisher

            Just like Floyd never died from the knee on his neck

      • 0 avatar
        mayorofcentralia

        You don’t really need to imagine what happens when a mob finds a member of congress. It’s happened within the past few years, they’ve either been assaulted or shot by democrats.

    • 0 avatar
      Carmass87

      Well said! Hopefully you can join me in ditching this biased site.

  • avatar
    Fred

    This ad isn’t made to unite us, nor is taking sides. It’s sole purpose is sell more Jeeps. You have fallen for this commercialism by showing the ad on this site without getting paid for it and by all of us who comment on it.

  • avatar
    ajla

    “My point is simply that it’s difficult, if not impossible, for reasonable people with reasonable disagreements to come together in a show of unity when a small but very vocal part of the population”

    No snark intended, but why do you think this is the case? Why does the existence of extremists impact how you interact (or compromise) with your nonexremist neighbor?

    _____________________
    “Except the problem is that a fringe element isn’t interested in unity.”
    “I also know there are fringe elements on the left that aren’t interested in unity at all, either.”

    For a “fringe element”, people in the media seem to be giving them outsized power. This kind of thing has always existed. Do you think the Galleanists or Weathermen or Timothy McVeigh-types were interested in “unity”? If your prerequisite is complete reasonableness across society first, then you don’t really care about unity.

    _______________________
    “It was an insurrection. On American soil. Read the last bit again and let it sink in. I’ll wait.”

    While I don’t want to minimize anything, I don’t want to engage in histrionics either. The first “Insurrection on American soil” occurred in 1783 and they’ve nearly been as common as El Nino events throughout history. And we are still here talking about Jeep commercials. Have faith.

    • 0 avatar
      Tim Healey

      To answer your first question, it seems to me that the more-extreme folks out there tend to hijack conversations, especially online. I can have a civil conversation with my buddy over a beer, true, but try that on Facebook or Twitter and the conversation will go downhill fast.

      You’re partially right — the media does give these people a lot of coverage. I’ve seen some media criticism suggesting that while they’re worth covering, too much coverage can lead to inadvertent amplification. I don’t envy the hard-news and political reporters who need to figure out that balance. That said, there’s a big difference being your comparisons to earlier times and now. During earlier times there was no social media to spread this poison. I remember McVeigh — he was pretty universally condemned by right and left, and the fringe elements who’d defend him were small in number and had no platform unless the media gave them one. Now those folks can use social media to recruit and be heard. And I’d bet if the OKC bombing happened now, we’d hear more of a defense of it. I’ve seen people defending the Capitol riot.

      Right, this wasn’t the first event in American history that could be reasonably called an insurrection. But it’s the first in my lifetime, and the lifetimes of pretty much everyone alive today. Just seemed unthinkable in this day and age until it happened.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        Tim,

        you have not seen worst yet. It is going to be much, much worse. If you want to learn how insurrection looks like, check 2014 Donbass.
        Yea, and America is not any special. This country can go down in matter of weeks. It is already half way there.

        • 0 avatar
          Arthur Dailey

          Slavuta, your continuing campaign of disinformation did not work. Ukraine, Russia and their contingent/client states have no tradition of democracy. It is not embedded in their culture. Or in their legal practices.

          So your comparison is invalid.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Arthur,

            what democracy? Tell me, when was democracy in America? During slavery, Indian genocide? Segregation that went into 1960s. When? When Patriot Act was invoked? Or may be now, when all laws are broken. If you are business owner or a landlord you would understand. America was a country of virtue, and that was people cared about when coming here, not democracy.

            Real democracy only coming to America now. Kentucky is working on the law that allows to block presidential actions. Texas will vote on independence referendum. This is real democracy!! And this is only way. Either federal gov. surrenders all powers to states or this country will follow USSR road

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            @Slavuta: Your paymasters in the Kremlin have been trying to discredit democracy for decades. They do this in order to justify their own corrupt system.

            Well the American democratic system was able to once again survive. This time by the thread of its teeth.

            The courts remained impartial, unlike in Russia/USSR. They upheld the Constitution. As did the Vice-President by refusing to bow to the wishes of Trump.

            We watch the main proponents of the conspiracy theory retract their statements when threatened with lawsuits. Because they have no ‘evidence’.

            Each State maintained its own voting rules during the most highly scrutinized federal election in US history. Multiple recounts took place and each confirmed the result.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            “Your paymasters in the Kremlin have been trying to discredit democracy for decades. They do this in order to justify their own corrupt system.”

            Independently what they tried, democracy is a myth. Because democracy was supposed to be a tool for improving lives of many. Instead it became a motto, used by any/every politician whenever they feel like they need to use it. Even Churchill said that democracy is cr-p and you will know it after speaking to an average voter for 5 minutes.

            “Well the American democratic system was able to once again survive. This time by the thread of its teeth.”

            Contrary. It is dead. What you see is a bandaid. Under – a rotten body.

            “The courts remained impartial, unlike in Russia/USSR. They upheld the Constitution. As did the Vice-President by refusing to bow to the wishes of Trump.”

            This is BS and you know it. We already had instances when court rulings came against presidential election challengers only on the basis that it will be damage US reputation in the world. Gore vs Bush also not clear. And all rulings against Trump were not court decisions on the case, these were rejections on “technical issues”. I say, yea-yea-yea.

            “We watch the main proponents of the conspiracy theory retract their statements when threatened with lawsuits. Because they have no ‘evidence’.”

            Again, I see more evidence piling in Arizona and Detroit. We will hear more about it surely.

            “Each State maintained its own voting rules during the most highly scrutinized federal election in US history. Multiple recounts took place and each confirmed the result.”

            And we all know how these rules were manipulated in several states. Russia is laughing.

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          slavuta,

          How can these people get themselves to believe the that ragtag mess at the Capitol was an attempt at an insurrection, and that the endless violence by left wing factions throughout most of 2020 (and still ongoing some places) was mostly peaceful protests. I guess it’s all part of the American delusion.

          There are two factors I see in the communist takeover of the US that might lead to bizarre things. 1) “merkins, are so oddly and deeply convinced that they have all these rights that just can’t be taken away. They don’t even seem to notice that they’ve already lost a lot of the “rights” they take so for granted. That type of programming is very hard to eradicate. 2) With the fall of the US to the commies, there will effectively be nothing left that opposes them. That could change the dynamics of the whole thing unpredictably. For example, I don’t thing Kim Jung Il/Un could have stayed in power so long without the outside threat that the US has consistently been to N. Korea. And, let’s not forget that in the USSR they whooped it up about capitalist encirclement. Take away that opposition and…

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Old_WRX,

            you speaking reason
            1. Americans developed what I call a mental complacency. People should be rioting when Patriot act was enacted. Americans are completely incompetent in how history repeats itself over and over.

            2. you are correct. These things do depend on each other. I am telling you, if USSR was still there today, US would be good old US. But after USSR was gone, US became lazy, incompetent, and totally missed raise of China. And now that we see it, nobody cares because current people believe that China is as nice as neighbor’s yellow lab. BTW, did you hear, in China – “China promotes education drive to make boys more manly”. Chinese military went to Russia and they were impressed by Russian men. So, they decided to… And look how quickly! 2 months and the program is in place. And what US does? Shaming your masculinity. This is why, I agree with one statement, I am not author of – the country that allowed itself an event like Tienanmen square will never lose to a country where cops kneel to criminals. In other words, our morals are broken.

            I see no hope for US-A. The only hope that some states will remain normal as part of the union or independent. BTW, if you notice, best to live countries are Norway, Denmark, Finland, Netherlands, Luxembourg – are all small countries.

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            Amazing if Slavuta instead made his comments in a classroom he would be decried by American ‘patriots’ as a communist sympathizer. But he posts talking points used by Pravda here, and some Americans who view moderate to slightly left wing politics as ‘communism’ agree with him.

            Perhaps he is right. Maybe the American public is so poorly educated that their democracy is truly doomed? And then he can cheer as the Kremlin recreates their desired Russian Empire.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            “Maybe the American public is so poorly educated that their democracy is truly doomed?”

            Without a doubt. The inmates are running the asylum down here.

            ” then he can cheer as the Kremlin recreates their desired Russian Empire.”

            Reruns of former empires are all the rage these days. Turkish “president” Erdoğan has stated he wishes to recreate the Ottoman Empire. EU is a de-facto empire, why not a neo-Russian empire after the US is taken down?

      • 0 avatar
        ajla

        “I can have a civil conversation with my buddy over a beer, true, but try that on Facebook or Twitter and the conversation will go downhill fast.”

        I can understand the thrill of internet banter (see my white-knighting for Harley Davidson this weekend) but that “civil conversation” part is what you want more of.

        “Now those folks can use social media to recruit and be heard.”
        That’s true. But people can also use social media to be against it. Or even better, have a personal conversation with someone to talk them off the ledge.

      • 0 avatar
        4drSedan

        G’bye TTAC. It was nice knowing you for a while.

        Slavuta, I think we would probably get along well if we ever met.

      • 0 avatar

        “but try that on Facebook or Twitter and the conversation will go downhill fast.”

        Because of that we have to abandon Facebooks and Twitters. We live in real world and problems are real. Big Tech destroys Democracy right before our eyes. There cannot be Democracy without freedom of speech and without free press. And people cannot be prosecuted for their views in Democratic society. But what I see is US becoming more and more like China and Russia not otherwise. Yeah we know it is Chinese century but still there was a hope. Not anymore.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        “My point is simply that it’s difficult, if not impossible, for reasonable people with reasonable disagreements to come together in a show of unity when a small but very vocal part of the population”

        The media, whether right or left biased loves to amplify “unreasonable”. Reasonable doesn’t generate viewers, hits, likes etc.

        With that being said, the extreme left or right finge doesn’t win elections. Shifts in the moderate middle does.

        The moderate middle IS the majority.

      • 0 avatar
        usernamealreadyregistered

        I heard someone say once that US policy in the Middle East was creating terrorists faster than our military could kill them. The left is creating right wing extremists faster than they can be jailed. No sane person wants this. But here we are.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          usernamealreadyregistered,

          yep.
          Reagan is a father of Radical Islam. Usama is his child. That was a policy of radicalization against infidel Soviets. But there was only 1 problem. People over there expect some respect. But US is like – today we do this, tomorrow we don’t. This is disrespect. This is why we see all those Toyota trucks with 50mm on them all over the place

          • 0 avatar
            ToolGuy

            “Toyota trucks with 50mm”

            My favorite gun is 406mm (and 50 calibers long [66.6 feet]):
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16-inch/50-caliber_Mark_7_gun

            Here is a truck-mounted gun with 33.3 foot overall length (sorry, no caliber or barrel length provided):
            https://imgur.com/gallery/tztPb3s

            For Toyota truck, ~2″ diameter barrel seems like overkill – maybe 12.7mm has sufficient penetration:
            https://youtu.be/rLddq5dldDw

            I like you slavuta – your posts make me think.

  • avatar
    ErickKS

    “…stormed the United States Capitol in an attempt to overthrow a democratic election. It was an insurrection. On American soil….”

    Going by stuff like this, you’d think it was like six divisions of Regulars had landed from the Potomac and laid absolute waste to the area.

    Never mind, the countless thugs who terrorized cities all across the entire country in 2020. No, that wasn’t divisive, or worthy of being called out AT ALL.

    The REAL source of division in this country is the Democrat Party. Constantly dividing us in every conceivable way. Always making sure that race remains the most prominent, painful issue possible. Never a day or moment without it.

    D for Divisive, that’s our Democrat Party, and it’s never going to end. It’s only going to get worse. And THIS helping them do it.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      what I saw is a bunch of dudes from Texas were visiting DC. Walked on the street, saw a brothel and decided to walk in. Seriously.
      Insurrection against US with US flags in hands…. Wouldn’t be more logical to insurrect locally. Trash FBI and IRS offices and beat some US Marshals, and tell them to go to hell?
      Problem is, these Canadian/American writers have no idea how insurrection looks like. Look at Donbass in former Ukraine. People raided government offices locally, replaced federal officials with locals and then took arms and denied feds access to the area, and feds went with army and got kicked out.

      • 0 avatar
        bunkie

        The fact that it was the “D minus” team doesn’t change the fact that the goal was to disrupt the process and overturn an election.

        They put Hitler in jail in 1923 for a similar D team effort. Dismiss this at your peril.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          bunkie,

          these are Americans. They don’t know what they were doing. They had no plan. Even Trump did not know what he was doing. Should of learned from Lenin – telegraph, telephone, newspaper… then Capitol. Should of shut down all CNNs of this world first then dig into Pelosi.

          • 0 avatar
            golden2husky

            …Should of shut down all CNNs of this world first then dig into Pelosi…

            yep, that’s no doubt what Putin told Trump to do – trash the press. Sure, I’ll trust Trump to tell the truth…/SSSSSSSSSSSSS You are betraying yourself with that statement you made. The press is not an enemy of the people. Democracy does die in darkness. Trouble is with the internet, you can hunt for anything that will support a given position that you already believe in.

        • 0 avatar

          “They put Hitler in jail in 1923 for a similar D team effort”

          And how that had ended?

      • 0 avatar

        In Ukraine it all started with American help. Americans brought misery to Ukraine. And who profited from all that chaos? Bidon and his son. And Putin of course.

        • 0 avatar
          Arthur Dailey

          Are you purposely forgetting the Holodomor, Chernobyl and countless other suffering inflicted on Ukraine by the Soviet Union?

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Arthur ,

            you keep paddling that myth of so called “Holodomor”.
            Let me break it to you AGAIN. Famine existed in Russia, Ukraine (part of USSR), Poland, Kazakhstan.

            “Holodomor” was made up to blame Stalin for purposeful famine against Ukrainians. There was only several problems with it.
            1. There are no personal accounts or documents that suggest such thing existed
            2. Ukraine was a small region to which Bolsheviks attached huge part of Russia and made Ukrainian soviet Socialist Republic. With decades passed these people eventually started to identify themselves as Ukrainians but back then they were Russians. So, it was Russians who died of Famine in Ukraine. And Tatars. And Ukrainians. So it wasn’t done against Ukrainians.
            3. If Stalin wanted to destroy Ukrainians than how did population of Ukraine grew by 10 million from 1926 to 1938?

            “countless other suffering inflicted on Ukraine by the Soviet Union”

            And what is exactly that? USSR has made Ukraine we know today. In 1920, during formation of USSR, Bolsheviks have attached huge part of Russia to Ukraine. In 1939 Attached part of Poland to Ukraine. In 1944 attached part of Slovakia to Ukraine. In 1954 Attached Crimea to Ukraine. In 1930s brought American engineers and workers to industrialize Ukraine.
            And then BAM! – Khrushchev and Brezhnev were from Ukraine! And they were ruling in the USSR! And Chernenko’s family was also from Ukraine. And next one was supposed to be Scherbitskiy, first secretary of Ukrainian CP. But Andropov said, “enough Ukrainians”. So, you see, over all those years, USSR was barely ruled by Russians. Like 10 years or so.

          • 0 avatar
            Luke42

            @Slavuta,

            “you keep paddling that myth of so called “Holodomor”.”

            It’s not a myth. My neighbor’s family, including her older brothers, survived the Holodomor.

            She was born after, and survived WWII in Ukraine, survived German refugee camps, and eventually landed in Chicago.

            These people are survivors. And, yes, she has a Balalaika just to give the finger to the right people.

            The Holodomor is no myth. The USSR had to chose between letting Russia starve, and letting Ukraine starve. They chose Ukraine, and Ukrainians suffered horribly as a result.

            For those who don’t know what we’re talking about, here’s a summary of the events:
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
            Trigger warning for people who don’t like seeing photos of dead people in the streets. Also, another trigger warning for people whose Russian Patriotism may be offended.

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            @Slavuta: Keep on peddling the Kremlin’s line.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            @Arthur

            I don’t care about Kremlin line. I know my old country – Ukraine.
            When you talk the way you do – Holodomor, you remind me recent stupidity that came out from Ukraine’s president himself. There are actually 2

            1. He called that Ukraine liberated [something] because it was 1st Ukrainian Front. For you – front is named after direction, not people who serve there. Ukrainian front was Voronezh front before liberation of Voronezh.

            2. He said not long ago that Germans bombed Ukrainian cities like Kiev, … Simferopol. Although, you know, in 1941 and till 1954 Simferopol was in Russia

            You are exactly this type. Your arguments are base of false premise and you argue them away.

            Everything I’ve said to you is factual. And you coming up with trash that has no basis, or fake basis made up in the last 20 or so years mostly with purpose to justify actions of the rulers.

            Let me tell you this one from this week. Ukraine president said that he will not buy Russian vaccine because there is no prove that it is worthy vaccine. He said this after Lancet confirmed its effectiveness, and many countries already using it, and Josep Borrell congratulated Russia, etc. This dude is dishonest. He should of said, “We will not use Russian vaccine because this is impossible in current political situation to buy Russian vaccine” (even though they buy Russian gas, oil, gasoline, etc). But he has no balls to say the truth.

            Don’t be like that dude ^^

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Ukrainian president Zelensky is an actor turned politician (sound fammilar?) who reportedly donated money to the Ukie army during the proxy war in Donbass. These two things suggest he is a friend to the CIA.

            His predecessor, Poroshenko “the chocolate king” *was* a definite friend of CIA, no joke its in the Wikileaks diplomatic cables from around 2009.

            https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09STATE129520_a.html

            Both are pro Western and Poroshenko was viewed by many as a Western puppet in the post Maiden coup, I am not certain of how Zelensky is viewed today.

            I find it curious you wish to deny the very real Holodomor and defend Stalin (a very “Russian” stance) yet seem to agree with the at the least Western friendly Ukrainian president’s position on the Sputnik vaccine (a very anti “Russian” stance).

            “In 2008, he starred in the feature film Love in the Big City, and its sequel, Love in the Big City 2.[4] Zelensky continued his movie career with the film Office Romance. Our Time in 2011 and with Rzhevsky Versus Napoleon in 2012.[4] Love in the Big City 3 was released in January 2014.[4] Zelensky also played the leading role in the 2012 film 8 First Dates and in sequels which were produced in 2015 and 2016.[4]

            In August 2014, Zelensky spoke out against the intention of the Ukrainian Ministry of Culture to ban Russian artists from Ukraine.[18] Since 2015, Ukraine has banned Russian artists and other Russian works of culture from entering Ukraine.[19] In 2018, the romantic comedy Love in the Big City 2 starring Zelensky was banned in Ukraine.[20]

            After the Ukrainian media had reported that during the War in Donbass Zelensky’s Kvartal 95 had donated 1 million hryvnias to the Ukrainian army, some Russian politicians and artists petitioned for a ban on his works in Russia.[21][b] Once again, Zelensky spoke out against the intention of the Ukrainian Ministry of Culture to ban Russian artists from Ukraine.[18]”

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volodymyr_Zelensky

    • 0 avatar
      MeJ

      @Mike
      Finally someone who can deal with reality.
      This is mind boggling that people are still in denial…

      • 0 avatar
        Arthur Dailey

        Slavuta, You are obviously not a Ukrainian but a Russian born in the Ukraine. Possibly descended from those moved there to replace the millions killed in the Holodomor.

        No it is not a lie. It happened. During a time of adequate harvests. But then the Soviets also lied about Katyn, Chernobyl, and other crimes.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          @Arthur

          keep up with your delusions. I am not only born in Ukraine,
          my father is born in Ukraine, and Mother, and all theirs parents and
          grand parents. In fact, my predecessors lived in there before it was Russian Empire. A batch of my relatives moved to US from Ukraine in 1920. So this is 100 years back and my roots go another 100 years deeper in there. And all of this in the “real Ukraine”, a small area south west of Kiev. Half way from Kiev To Lvov. I used to find 17th century Polish Silver Zloty on my backyard, if I dig 3 feet.

          You’re just behaving foolishly. There, Russian service BBC explains – “Само слово “голодомор” впервые появилось в печатных трудах украинских эмигрантов в Канаде и США в 1978 году.”
          The word Holodomor first was used by Ukrainian immigrants in US and Canada, in 1978. BBC – anti Russian propaganda telling you that!!! This is why we in USSR knew famine, not “holodomor”. You’ve made this up here!! This is like if Russia kept repeating “Genocide of native americans”. This is not history, if it is made up in the different country. Holodomor was made up as terminology and is used currently for political purposes.

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            From Wikipedia: ‘The word was used in print in the 1930s in Ukrainian diaspora publications in Czechoslovakia as Haladamor[25] …. However, in the Soviet Union—of which Ukraine was a constituent republic—any references to the famine were dismissed as anti-Soviet propaganda, even after de-Stalinization in 1956, until the declassification and publication of historical documents in the late 1980s made continued denial of the catastrophe unsustainable.[29]

            Discussion of the Holodomor became possible as part of the glasnost policy of openness.

            And as you know there is a great deal of difference between ethnic Ukrainians and ethnic Russians born in the Ukraine. Just as there is between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland, and ‘pure laine’ Quebecois and others living in Quebec. Regardless of how many generations they go back,

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Arthur,

          I wrote a big answer to you. But somehow lost it. Let me deliver this part.
          If the article “Hladomor v SSSR” ever existed in Czech publication, it meant “Famine in USSR”. This is a false-cognitive. Because “Hladomor” means “famine” – direct meaning, but there is no such
          word in Ukrainian as “holodomor”. This is made from “hunger” and “mor” from “moryty”, like deny of life support or poison. Usually applied to rodents.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Arthur,

          this is where “holodomor” comes from

          https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/varjag2007su/78328555/2633435/2633435_original.jpg

          Of course – America!!

  • avatar
    Art Vandelay

    So both of the so called “fringe elements” are slap crazy. No denying that. However idiotic and misguided one was however, they took the beef to the actual entity they had the beef with…the government. The other in their rage against those in power and the police seemed to be dispraportinately taking the fight to their local retailers instead. Outside of the takeover of the police pricient in Seattle, I mostly saw people throught the summer expressing their anger at the police by burning down the businesses of wholly unconnected entities unless the root of race issues and police corruption in this country can be traced back to Samsung, Vizio and other makers of the consumer electronics I saw being looted or destroyed.

    The fringe of both sides should be relegated to the shadows like it has throughout most of history. Yet some just cant seem to call out their own.

  • avatar
    EBFlex

    Once again it’s all the right’s fault. Thanks Tim.

    “It was an insurrection…” BS. Full stop.

    Using the terminology of the left it was a mostly peaceful protest. Using the terminology of a reasonable person it was an unfortunate event by a very small number of people. Having said that it was very heartwarming to see our political leaders cower in fear. Don’t ever forget who YOUR bosses are.

    Interesting how you don’t really mention the left-wing riots over the summer and fall fueled by political leaders and the media. Was that an example of the unity you aspire to achieve?

    “More to the point, Jeep and The Boss can call for unity until they’re as blue in the face as Bruce looked in that video (topless Jeep in the cold – brrr).”

    Bruce is a hack (and a garbage musician but that’s another discussion). He has the audacity to call for unity when for four years he and the rest of his TDS counterparts refused to accept the results of a free and fair election. Your side was able to claim “Russia Russia Russia” with absolutely zero evidence and zero consequences for running with such a laughable narrative. But when the other side demonstrates vast amounts of fraud in the election, it’s sit down shut up and let’s have unity. Almost all of the cases of fraud were thrown out for lack of standing. It’s a procedural move where the cases are tossed even before the evidence is presented. Further, why shouldn’t we look into claims of fraud in our election? Why is that such a bad thing?

    No…I’m not united with that disgusting mindset. Unity will never return because the left burned any hopes of that over the last four years.

    • 0 avatar
      MeJ

      @EB
      It WAS insurrection.
      No BS. Full stop.
      Know how I know? I f***ing watched it live!
      WTF is wrong with you people???

      • 0 avatar
        skotastic

        I watched it live too.

        It was NOT an insurrection or even close.

        It was a mob that got out of control. How many of those folks own AR-15s and other firearms? If there was a real attempt at a coup there would have been buildings aflame, gunfights lasting into the night, potentially hundreds dead.

        I am not a Trump supporter, and those rioters should be prosecuted for specific crimes. Saying this it was NOT an insurrection or even close to one.

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        But EB saw a black guy running down the street with a TV last summer, so overthrowing democracy, calling for the murder of Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi only seams fair, right?

        • 0 avatar
          skotastic

          Jan 6th was bad. Full stop.

          There were poisonous angry people raging and spewing hate, people died, property was damaged, and so on.

          Was it an actual planned coup to overthrow the American government or end democracy? Not even close.

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            skotastic,

            “Not even close.”

            The media would have us believe that it was an insurrection attempt by a bunch of very dangerous right wing extremists. That would be the same right wing extremists, I assume, that own a lot of guns and have spent a lot of time in the military…

          • 0 avatar
            Luke42

            “Was it an actual planned coup to overthrow the American government or end democracy? Not even close.”

            Guliani told the protesters that it was time to have a “trial by combat”.

            Trump told the protesters to be strong disrupt the counting of the certified, multiply-recounted, and reviewed-by-the-courts electoral votes.

            The Trump folks exhausted all of the legal avenues available to them to stay in power. And so they resorted to extralegal means.

            Staying in power by extralegal means is pretty much the textbook definition of overthrowing democracy.

        • 0 avatar
          EBFlex

          @lie2me

          Huh?

        • 0 avatar
          Art Vandelay

          If a group goes into a local Police precinct, kicks out the local law enforcement, loots and burns the place, puts up a border around a multi block area and claims that the laws of the local municipality do not apply to them and holds that area for weeks, is that an insurrection, or does it only count when it is a dude in a Viking helmet making off with the speaker’s podium? Yeah, let’s not pretend the summer was all one giant Sublime song with a bunch of “mostly peaceful” folks getting new TVs and home furnishings.

          • 0 avatar
            Luke42

            @Art:


            If a group goes into a local Police precinct, kicks out the local law enforcement, loots and burns the place, puts up a border around a multi block area and claims that the laws of the local municipality do not apply to them and holds that area for weeks, is that an insurrection, or does it only count when it is a dude in a Viking helmet making off with the speaker’s podium? Yeah, let’s not pretend the summer was all one giant Sublime song with a bunch of “mostly peaceful” folks getting new TVs and home furnishings.”

            Yes, and?

            Either way, Trump fans ransacked the Capital of the United States of America. The last people to do that were the British during the War of 1812.

            So, if you’re going to “both sides” this, left-wing protesters toppled the City government of Seattle for a couple of weeks, right-wing protesters toppled the United States Government for an afternoon.

            Once you start looking at the details, though, the differences get much bigger. The left-wing protester’s main grievance is that too many of their people have been killed unnecessarily by police — and, as a result, they thought they would be better off without any police at all. The right-wing protesters were sore losers because the other Biden got more votes (both popular votes and in the electoral college).

            So, no, the sides are not equivalent here, and the differences get bigger the deeper you look.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            @Luke, so as I said, the only ones I have any support for are in fact the ones that had beef with the cops and took it to, wait for it, the cops

            I refuse to grant the moral high ground to the vast majority of those protesters who rather than taking it to the Cops decided to express their outrage by breaking windows and filling up a van with new home furnishings and consumer electronics.

            And go back and look at the videos of the C.H.A.Z. “Insurrection”. Racially it looks a lot like the one on capital hill in D.C. so I’m not sure how many of them were being oppressed by the cops. More like a bunch of entitled nitwits looking to get their grubby hands a little deeper in my pocket.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            Oh and @Luke, I lean right. I have no issue calling out the clowns in the Capital. They don’t represent my beliefs and my political views are not shaped by a man or wrapped in the banner of Donald Trump. Heck I can call out his stupidity as well.

            So why can’t the left call out their own radical fringe. It is always justified when you do it. Sorry man, destroying the property of an entity wholly disconnected for the most part from the entity that you in fact have a legitimate beef with doesn’t get you the moral high ground. It kind of makes you chicken$#!+

      • 0 avatar
        EBFlex

        “ It WAS insurrection.
        No BS. Full stop.
        Know how I know? I f***ing watched it live!
        WTF is wrong with you people???”

        We’re you watching it from your safe space?

        If that was an insurrection then what happened over the summer was flat out terrorism and anyone involved should be held at Gitmo.

        • 0 avatar
          Arthur Dailey

          Insurrection (definition): ‘a violent uprising against an authority or government’. So yes the very definition.

          And whenever a tinpot dictator/despot refuses to accept the results of an election and attempts to retain power, we recognize it as a repudiation of democracy and an illegal act.

          If the despot holds public rallies and encourages his followers to repudiate the election results and to ‘march’ on the legislature to pressure the legislators to conform with his view and repudiate the election it is rightful regarded as a palace coup. Whether successful or not.

          • 0 avatar
            golden2husky

            Ya know Arthur, if your going to be rational and all that…

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            “Insurrection (definition): ‘a violent uprising against an authority or government’. So yes the very definition.”

            Then the riots this summer were an insurrection as well. Can’t have it both ways.

          • 0 avatar
            Luke42

            @EB:

            Sure, you can call the Capital Hill Autonomous Zone (or whatever) an insurrection.

            You can’t call the BLM protests which happened in my city an insurrection, though. What happened in my city was well within the bounds of civil/non-violent protest. You can’t pretend that Portland and Seattle’s special brand of messed up applies to cities all over the nation.

            But, when you look at the details, the insurrection against the Congress of the United States on January 6th was far worse than the insurrection against the Seattle Police Department last summer.

            Attempting to overthrow the democratic process just because the other guy won more votes (both popular and electoral) is not OK.

            If you don’t like who won, try again during the next election. I was ashamed to be an American while we had President Donald J. Trump our leader. The only reason I put up with Trump at all was because I am a patriotic American who believes in our democratic process. I took my shame to the ballot box in 2020, which is the American way. I invite you guys to channel your patriotism into doing the same in 2022 and 2024.

            If you really believe in what Trump stands for, stop defending the insurrection and start figuring out who you can put on the ballot in 2022 and 2024. Are you ready to settle this at the ballot box again, like Real Americans?

        • 0 avatar
          MeJ

          @EB

          “We’re you watching it from your safe space?”

          Sorry you’re thinking of your supreme ex-leader,
          trump. I’m sure he was in the bunker (again) under the White House.

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            @EB The one on January 6th was an attempt to overturn the legal election results at the urging of the incumbent.

            Therefore there is a great deal of difference.

      • 0 avatar
        mayorofcentralia

        Yes, the time honored tactic of staging an insurrection without using any firearms, and announcing that you’re going to perform the insurrection months in advance. Genius.

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      EBFlex,

      “Unity will never return because the left burned any hopes of that over the last four years.”

      And, they’re still keeping that fire well stoked.

  • avatar
    Sutures

    “Meet me in the middle,” says the unjust man. You take a step towards him, he takes a step back. “Meet me in the middle,” says the unjust man.
    – A.R. Moxon

  • avatar
    khory

    Your description of the Capitol riot is hyperbolic.

    “Those folks are too upset at being called out for a type of grievance politics that drives the divisiveness to be interested in any sort of harmony.”

    This nonsense right here is why the riots occurred in the first place. There are legitimate concerns these people have and media types are quick to dismiss them. These people lashed out because they felt like they were not being heard. In light of the last minute voting rule changes, unkept voter roles, and count room irregularities you can’t say there is no cause for concern. As long as this cavalier attitude continues trust in election will continue to erode.

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      “There are legitimate concerns these people have and media types are quick to dismiss them.”

      The problem is that the courts dismissed them as well. It takes a big stretch to go with the entire judicial branch (including Thomas and Alito) was either in on a plot to steal an election or were totally apathetic to it.

  • avatar
    khory

    Your description of the Capitol riot is hyperbolic.

    “Those folks are too upset at being called out for a type of grievance politics that drives the divisiveness to be interested in any sort of harmony.”

    This nonsense right here is why the riots occurred in the first place. There are legitimate concerns these people have and media types are quick to dismiss them. These people lashed out because they felt like they were not being heard. In light of the last minute voting rule changes, unkept voter roles, and count room irregularities you can’t say there is no cause for concern. As long as this cavalier attitude continues trust in election will continue to erode.

    • 0 avatar
      Arthur Dailey

      That mistrust was spread for decades by Soviet propagandists and only convinced a few zealots.

      However when the Republican presidential candidate starts stating it when he was running for election, even prior to being elected, it convinced a great many. A significant number of whom have only limited understanding of the Constitution or the process of voting.

      Each state has its own rules. This election was the most highly scrutinized in history. Every court and recount has confirmed the legitimacy of the election.

      And when those who spouted conspiracy theories were confronted by civil lawsuits they quickly retracted their claims.

  • avatar
    Steve_S

    A number of manufacturers try these types of things and while it’s a nice sentiment it isn’t going to happen. Then again it’s just a commercial from a company that wants to sell a product.

    I rather enjoyed the GM/Will Ferrell spot.

    I used to vote for whoever I thought would be the best candidate for the job, governor, president, whatever. Their political party didn’t really matter to me.

    Now I’m not interested in coming together, in unity, you can’t fix the stupid and the gullible. There are no “fine people on both sides” you have domestic terrorists and you have citizens.

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      “Now I’m not interested in coming together, in unity, you can’t fix the stupid and the gullible. There are no ‘fine people on both sides’ you have domestic terrorists and you have citizens.”

      I think you will come to regret that ideology.

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      Nobody is interested in unity until mid April when it is time to unite their hands with my pocket and grab a handful of cash.

  • avatar
    redapple

    Yep
    Sure
    Bidet got 18 % more votes than Obama in 2008.
    Right.
    Obama. Great Speaker.
    First Black Candidate.
    Great Excitement.

    Bidet?
    Never left the basement.
    Dead cat bounce excitement.
    Cant put 4 sentences together without going into the ditch or having a mad old man episode.

    Next item for your review.
    I ve seen dozens and dozens of pictures of inside the Capitol Rioters. The ardent smashers and mashers looks?
    20 s and early 30s.
    Beards
    Hip clothes.
    Literally, every one.
    I ve watched 20 Trump Rallies. Ive never seen any people looking like this. NONE.
    So who do these rioters look like.
    Well.
    Antifa Rioters. That s who.
    Exact
    Matches.
    And Tactics.

    Hire 25-50 of them. $1000 a day. Lead the charge. Be the tip of spear and presto!

    A great new story and tremendous damage to the country and Past President.

  • avatar
    Lie2me

    “[Ed. note: Yes, this article touches on cars and politics. Please play nice in the comments if you don’t want to face the banhammer.]”

    Then stop inciting discord for clicks

    • 0 avatar
      Tim Healey

      I am doing no such thing. I simply saw the Jeep ad last night, thought about its message, thought it fell short of the intended message, and decided to use the platform I have to express my opinion about it. And it’s inbounds since it’s a company in the industry we cover (I’d not write about it on TTAC if the company, was, say, Verizon, for example).

      We like clicks. They pay the bills. But we don’t write opinion articles — or any article, really — solely for clicks. We write news, reviews, and analysis to inform and/or entertain you, and we write our opinions when appropriate to stimulate you intellectually, even if you end up disagreeing with us.

      • 0 avatar
        Art Vandelay

        Dude call it what you want, but that was a straight up editorial. You barely mentioned the ad.

        • 0 avatar
          Tim Healey

          Yes, it was an editorial. It was labeled opinion in the headline. We do write editorials from time to time.

          It was not done to mine clicks, however. I had an opinion on an ad from a company we cover, and I have a platform, so I wrote about it. Clicks are an ancillary benefit. The idea is to get you, the reader, to think about the ad, whether you agree with me or think I am nuts.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            Well as long as we are sharing opinions, this site has gone from a page quoted by Presidents as a solid source of the goings on in the auto industry to, well, this…chimps flinging poop at each other over politics.

            There was a time when people on the staff were connected to the industry and the stories showed it. Even freaking Bertel Schmidt put the current group of press release copy/pasters to shame.

            A lack of substance and a bunch of one sided political clickbait have wrecked this place. (Yes the clickbait existed in the Bertel era and pretty much all of the non-Farago eras, but the content made it forgivable).

            Try a car article that isn’t a regurgitation of a press release for a change.

            Feel free to drop your ban hammer. I can get 90 percent of this sites “content” from the automakers websites anyway. Sad. I really miss what this site used to be.

  • avatar
    RangerM

    It was a riot, not an insurrection.

    The Federal Government of the United States was never in danger of being overthrown.

    • 0 avatar
      skotastic

      absolutely right – it was a riot/mob out of control, and not a planned insurrection.

      I’m not a Trump supporter, and I don’t think the election was stolen.

      If it was an insurrection, you’d have gunfire into the night, fires raging, hundreds potentially dead, and other buildings targeted too.

      It wasn’t not even close.

      The scary part was not some folks sitting in the Speaker’s chair, but rather a government now working closely with major media outlets to label millions of political opponents as ‘domestic terrorists’ that need to be tracked and targeted by the state.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      Overthrowing the government-elect is exactly what those people wanted, and they said so in recorded video. Were the videos staged?

      • 0 avatar

        “Elect” assumes free and fair elections.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          ““Elect” assumes free and fair elections”

          Evidence?????

          Where is the evidence????

          61 visits to 61 different court rooms and zero wins for tRump.

          tRump lost in a free and fair election.

          • 0 avatar
            EBFlex

            Oh Lou MR……your childish side is showing again.

            First off it’s spelled, President Trump.

            Secondly, there is PLENTY of evidence. It was all over a couple of news outlets that are interested in the truth. For weeks there was evidence shown. There was signed statements from people working there. There was video of people sending workers home and then pulling out a mysterious trunk hidden under a table with no explanation.

            Again, just because you deny it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Just because the courts dismissed the cases before hearing the evidence doesn’t mean there wasn’t fraud. Remember your side was pushing “Russia Russia Russia” for four years with ZERO evidence. Yet that was ok. We have evidence of fraud and you immediately dismiss it. Nice double standard.

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            Lou_BC,

            That’s right they have no evidence. Show them where they get off — give them a thorough, fair and open hearing. Then, when they lose, it will shut them up. Right?

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “There was signed statements from people working there”

            Ha ha.

            Signed statements don’t prove anything.
            One can get a 1,000,000 signed statements saying the earth is flat.

            It isn’t President tRump. Hasn’t been for over a month.

            Boo hoo.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I agree, the Federal Government of the United States was never in danger of being overthrown [again].

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        28 cars,

        hard to find reply button to your post to answer above ^^
        Zelensky was making money in Russia so did Poroshenko. While war was raging, Zelensky was filming in Russia, Poroshenko was making candy and also fixed military equipment.
        Today Zelensky is on the way down, his support is 20%. He did not fulfilled any of his promises and will leave a trail similar to Poroshenko

        Speaking of “holodomor” – look:
        Russian service BBC explains – “Само слово “голодомор” впервые появилось в печатных трудах украинских эмигрантов в Канаде и США в 1978 году.”
        The word “Holodomor” first was used by Ukrainian immigrants in US and Canada, in 1978. Russian service BBC is anti Russian propaganda telling you that!!! I remember listening to them while in USSR. Back then they delivered information that soviets hid from us. Today they deliver lies designed to make Russia a puppet of the west. Zelensky is already a puppet of MI6. I don’t remember any other president of some country meeting chief of MI6. In USSR we knew famine. Of course, they did not tell us that collectivization was part of the issue, only citing bad draught. We did not know word “holodomor”. Word “Holodomor” was made up as terminology and is used currently for political purposes.

        Fun fact from few weeks ago. Israeli and Polish ambassadors to Ukraine posted official protests against actions in Kiev in honor of NAzi collaborator Bandera. Next day, Ukrainian nationalists protested in front of Israeli embassy claiming Israel’s participation in holodomor. I don’t know what they meant; that many Jews were Bolsheviks and NKVD? But one Ukrainian journalist properly noted – if Stalin was a ruler and dictator, why they don’t protest next to Georgian embassy?

        You asked me, how I am for this or for that? I am not on anyone’s side. There is history. You can’t change it. But unfortunately there are countries that try to change it and really unfortunately that US has joined this list. Such efforts are especially strong in Poland and Ukraine. For example, in Ukraine they invest big money into “history” which separates Russia and Ukraine. But there are real historians there who explains the truth – Ukraine is Russia! Ukraine is birthplace of Russia. (Don’t mix with Russian Empire or Russian Federation). Even dude who started Moscow, Yuri Longhands, always wanted to get to his throne in Kiev. And spent 2 stints in Kiev. History above all to me. I am not going to paddle popular propaganda used by any side.

    • 0 avatar
      Arthur Dailey

      How then would you describe the original uprisings of the French Revolution?

      And ‘the mob’ had hoped to convince Mike Pence to follow Trump’s public exhortations and illegally subvert the election results.

  • avatar
    tonycd

    Tim, the fact that you’ve incensed this many fascist denialists means you did a pretty good job.

    Evidently, no, one can’t unite everybody in today’s America (although it’s usually unacknowledged that you never could, not even the white ones). But those who are capable of adult thought can unite around a shared set of facts. Those who insist in stuffing their fingers in their ears while louding reciting the Murdoch alt-truth will just have to be luxuriate in their wish of comforting denial without assent from the rest of us.

    And bunkie, good comment.

    • 0 avatar
      Cicero

      “Fascist Denialist.” Wow. I can feel all the Tolerance and Unity pouring right over me.

    • 0 avatar
      skotastic

      wow, scary stuff…

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      Murdoch sold Fox and the only information most of the proletariat is given are alternative facts.

      “We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.” – CIA Director William Casey to President Reagan, 1981.

    • 0 avatar
      usernamealreadyregistered

      A shared set of facts? There is no shared set of facts. Only an ever evolving set of lies which I must pretend to believe to remain employed. Does mail-in voting present incremental opportunities for fraud? Is there any aspect of the George Floyd or Jacob Blake incidents that might suggest Mr. Floyd’s or Mr. Blake’s actions played a role in how police handled them? Were the summer protests “mostly peaceful”? Is there a reason behind the left’s consistent objections to any process that might serve to reduce the opportunities for voting fraud or bolster voter verification? Should individuals born with Y chromosomes, higher testosterone levels and male bone structures be permitted to compete in women’s sports if they take female hormones?

      There is no shared set of facts. And Reddit-grade analysis from Politifact or Snopes is not “debunking”.

  • avatar
    NECarGuy

    I highly suggest many people watch the movie Idiocracy. Regardless of party affiliation! It floors me that our country has become this divided and so many people from both sides lack the ability to reason. Wow… I fear for our country.

  • avatar
    Jerome10

    I generally turn to sports for entertainment. Not for lectures.

    I suppose I’m gonna have to add TTAC to this list. I come here to read about cars.

    Now I’m told “Part of that element, driven at least in part by misinformation and disinformation, refuses to believe the factual truth regarding who won the 2020 presidential election. Part of that element stormed the United States Capitol in an attempt to overthrow a democratic election. It was an insurrection. On American soil.”

    So I’ve got TTAC deciding what is truth and what isn’t? TTAC is the determiner of what is or is not an insurrection?

    “we’re fighting over reality.” Oh, I got that too. Any Americans that might see things differently, or have concerns whether an election was legitimate or not….we’ll that’s just not reality, as declared by an automotive website.

    Basically the same story you hear everywhere else. If you disagree or have concerns, you’re labeled as something terrible, banished, and then after that is completed told to come together and have “unity”. Yeah ok sure.

    Ban me. What do I care. I’m used to things that used to be fun being political cesspools. Another one off my list isn’t gonna cause me any grief at this point.

    • 0 avatar
      Tim Healey

      You didn’t have to click…but thanks for taking the time to read the piece!

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      Politics and cars have been mixed since the 1800s – get over it.

      This article is an opinion piece about a Jeep ad. It wouldn’t have been written if Jeep didn’t purposefully produce an ad that addressed politics.

      You can’t escape politics in the car world. If you want 0-60 times and skidpad numbers, go to R&T, but they discuss politics there, too.

      Political influence affects every aspect of cars:
      Emissions
      CAFE
      Subsidies
      Corporate welfare
      Safety
      Sales models
      Unions
      Trade policy
      Taxes
      Energy policy
      Privacy

      Should we stop discussing all of these topics?

      • 0 avatar
        jkross22

        “Politics and cars have been mixed since the 1800s – get over it.”

        Pro tip: Telling people to ‘get over it’ is akin to having your dog crap on their well maintained lawn and when asked nicely to pick up after your dog, you tell them to go f*** themselves.

        This isn’t about someone being soft on the internet. This is about not going out of your way to be a jerk. Is that too much of an ask?

        I don’t agree with Jerome’s take on the election, but dunking on him for it is some weak sauce.

        • 0 avatar
          SCE to AUX

          @jkross22:

          Jerome10’s comments are not a well-maintained lawn, and he isn’t asking nicely.

          You can’t become a plumber and not deal with sewage.

          Cars and politics go together, like it or not. Jerome10 doesn’t like it, so supposedly he’s going to leave, I guess in favor of a car site that doesn’t mention politics.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    “we’re fighting over reality”

    Yep. Excellent article, Tim.

    The ‘stolen election’ crowd *never* explains how the nationwide election conspiracy actually worked. Its microscopic chances of success make it the only answer to an outcome they didn’t like.

    Unfortunately, I don’t believe this is a fringe element. I left the R party in late November when a poll showed that 52% of Republicans still believed Mr Trump won the election. That would be a quarter of the US population.

    As for the ad, it was a waste of money and may have hurt the Jeep brand. It did nothing to move the needle toward unity because those it sought to reunite don’t want that.

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      Give it some time before you write-off millions of people.

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      I’m sure they will get around to explaining it all right around the time the other side explains how George W, in their minds the biggest idiot to ever hold office until a few years ago, managed to mastermind the greatest conspiracy in the history of our nation, leading us to 2 wars and here we are, 20 years later and that absolute idiot has managed to keep everyone quiet about the whole thing.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @Art Vandelay – No secrets to Gulf War 1 and 2. They were corporatist wars made to make money from oil and to make money for “contractors”. Soldiers bled red so corporations don’t.

        If you lump those two into one then the other war would be Afghanistan. Not sure what’s there to die for other than to spend billions on “rearranging the rubble”.

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          Art Vandelay, Lou_BC,

          C’mon guys. If you’re going to bring that one up you need to mention that the Bushes and Hussein were former business partners. Wars are never about “the people.” They are always about the greed, power hunger, and, sometimes vengeance of the powerful. It’s not a matter of the people of two countries can’t get along — that one’s one of the silliest ever. War is all about the powerful; the people are just cannon fodder.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Lou,

          at least I can defend war for once.
          “On 29 November 1990, the Security Council passed Resolution 678 which gave Iraq until 15 January 1991 to withdraw from Kuwait and empowered states to use “all necessary means” to force Iraq out of Kuwait after the deadline. ”

          In other words GF#1 was when UN was actually doing its job. sure, it involved other interest but it was correct decision. Saddam was US buddy, he thought, everything will be not looked at.

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    I used to pay taxes. Those taxes were used to invest in things like Capitol Police tools and training and ‘security.’ I was assured that the experts and the professionals had a handle on things. After 9/11, I was told that putting various agencies under one umbrella would avoid the type of interagency coordination issues that we observed on January 6.

    The security failures on January 6 were embarrassing.

    Now the experts and the professionals say they need more funding. (This is my skeptical face.)

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      I always ask one question:

      Tell me one instance when FBI prevented big crime?
      9/11?
      Boston?
      Oklahoma?

      In Boston, Russians told FBI: these guys are terrorists. And still, FBI did nothing.

      But when CIA tipped Russians, Russians took down huge terror group and prevented attacks.

      May be we should outsource?

    • 0 avatar
      C5 is Alive

      Taxes are a forced investment in a failed enterprise. Were the U.S. a company, no rational individual would continue sinking their money into it.

  • avatar
    Superdessucke

    You have to also consider the Russia collusion hoax that was pretty much built on the premise that 250k in Facebook and Twitter ads influenced an election where 2.5 billion was spent. That was right up there with QAnon and the Dominion machine conspiracy in terms of insanity. So there’s definitely symmetry of nuttiness.

  • avatar
    Matt Posky

    Disavowed.

    Jeep probably gave the tens of people that actually watched “The Big Game” this year the warm, fuzzy, and unified™ feeling they needed to get out and lease a Wrangler.

  • avatar
    Garrett

    You don’t achieve unity by telling someone they need to demonstrate unity. You achieve unity by demonstrating that you are with someone and doing it in a manner that resonates with them – not a manner which you “know” is good for them, and they should just stop being stubborn and accept what you are doing to them. I mean for them.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    The KC Chiefs actually won Super Bowl 55, but that win was stolen from them by a series of intentional bad calls by the referees.

    Never mind that the KC Chiefs played terrible, evident to anybody who saw the game in person or on TV. Never mind the QB’s gimpy foot, receivers’ dropped passes, and his front line’s porous protection.

    The game was stolen from them, and right there in Tampa for the home team!

    If it wasn’t for the crooked officials who called holding, pass interference, roughing, and off sides, the Chiefs would have won 50-3.

    The media doesn’t want you to know the truth about Super Bowl 55. I will perpetuate this belief to a wide group of AFC fans who care enough to peacefully storm the NFL head office for a review of the entire game, because the country knows the Chiefs were destined to win two times in a row.

  • avatar
    Carmass87

    Tim Healey, what a condescending and biased take on the ad! Bruce Springsteen never gave a damn about unity when the republicans were in office. This is why the ad is bad.

    As far the legitimacy of the election is concerned, the fact that the dems have fought tooth and nail against voter ID laws should tell you all you need to know about how much they care about having elections where only legal votes are counted.

    Whether or on there was enough voter fraud to have switched the election to Biden is unknowable, but if you think this election was entirely on the level you are naive in the extreme. Even if Biden did win, the free ride he and other dems get from a heavily biased media is alone enough to throw the election into doubt.

    There is a justified reason for anger over this election and your arrogant take on it has alienated a sizable chunk of your readers.

    As far as you and this site are concerned, no more visits from me! There are plenty other car sites that intelligently choose to leave politics alone. Hopefully others will realize that the cancel culture goes both ways.

  • avatar
    FThorn

    Best thread ever here. We’d do well to focus the energy on our real, existential threat, CCP.

  • avatar
    lastwgn

    Tim this is rather sad of you. Do you really, honestly think Bruce and/or Jeep wanted unity? Only if it means no one disagrees with their perspective. If they really wanted to demonstrate an interest in unity, the commercial would have had Bruce, a clearly avowed lefty, enjoying a Jeep adventure with an equally avowed righty, enjoying the freedom and open air. It would not have simply been a single person from a single viewpoint providing a stern lecture.

    See you later TTAC. I can obtain my daily news from the automotive world elsewhere. No need to put up with this nonsense.

    • 0 avatar
      lastwgn

      Furthermore, after what I watched here in the Twin Cities this past summer – night after night of riots and looting as others have pointed out – and you dare only point out the fringe elements on the right as being problematic? Disgraceful. Do you honestly think, do you really honestly think, that if President Trump had won the election on election night there would not have been riots, looting, and burning from sea to shining sea? What we saw on January 6 would have looked like child’s play to the nonsense we would have seen if the shoe had been on the other foot. Calling out one side and not the other is an absolute disgrace.

      I am done here.

      • 0 avatar
        EBFlex

        Very well put.

        $2 BILLION in damage and people ignore it. A few people enter the capital and our lawmakers cower in fear and it’s called an insurrection. Love the hypocrisy.

        • 0 avatar
          CobraJet

          I certainly agree with everything you said. For the past year I have noticed many of the regular and frequent posters on this site have disappeared. I see why. I will join you and the others and find other automotive news sites.

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          lastwgn, EBFlex,

          “Calling out one side and not the other is an absolute disgrace.”

          “Love the hypocrisy.”

          Absolutely nauseating, infuriating hypocrisy. The violence of these “mostly peaceful demonstrations” and the dereliction of duty by elected officials who allowed the violence and destruction to continue is repugnant.

          • 0 avatar
            C5 is Alive

            “Absolutely nauseating, infuriating hypocrisy. The violence of these “mostly peaceful demonstrations” and the dereliction of duty by elected officials who allowed the violence and destruction to continue is repugnant.”

            It’s logical to assume we’ll see more Kyle Rittenhouses in the months ahead…

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            Yes @Luke, when my wife makes me mad I often deal with it by going next door and throwing rocks through my neighbor’s windows.

            You really show the Police and those in authority you are angry at them by burning down Joe’s Bagel Shop and getting a new flat screen.

            Like I said earlier, their gripes are legit, but you don’t get to destroy my property or steal someone else’s to prove a point.

            I also do agree, they were mostly peaceful. We had many BLM protests in my hometown. I walked through one and never felt unsafe.

            But at the end of the day, most of the protesters in DC didn’t enter the capital either and went home when they were told.
            People judge you by the ones that are the loudest.

      • 0 avatar
        Luke42

        @lastwgn:
        “Furthermore, after what I watched here in the Twin Cities this past summer – night after night of riots and looting as others have pointed out”

        If the police are allowed to kill members of the community with impunity, what exactly do you expect to happen?

        “Please, sir, may I have another knee on my neck?” No, of course not. At some point, it’s going to boil over.

        No, the property damage shouldn’t have happened. But you need to fix the behavior of the police in order to solve the problem. Competence and professionalism from the police force is not too much to ask for.

        You’ve got to fix the underlying problem.

        And before anyone goes to whataboutism, the underlying problem with insurrection at the capital was that President Donald Trump did not receive as many votes as President Joe Biden. Boo-hoo, try win the election again in 2022 and 2024 by getting more votes. The liberals took their lumps in 2016 and got more votes in 2020. You guys should do the same.

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          Luke42,

          “The liberals took their lumps in 2016”

          They didn’t stop “never Trump” for four years. They have instigated the second groundless impeachment process (didn’t anyone tell them they have no jurisdiction over private citizens?…makes the whole second round kinda pathetic). I’m no fan of the Trumpster, but the dems ranted and misbehaved all four years he was POTUS. And, now he’s gone and they are still ranting. Maybe someone forgot to tell them that orange man is out and their guy is in???? I just don’t get it. They lose in 2016 and have a temper tantrum… They win in 2020 and have a temper tantrum… Awful hard to please. What do they want? Would they even be happy if everyone agreed with them?

          • 0 avatar
            sgeffe

            Tim, your side has won!

            There was enough skullduggery afoot in that election which was swept under the rug! Why did the vote count suddenly come to a halt around 11:00pm on Election Day? And how in the name of all that is good and holy did an 800,000 vote margin in Pennsylvania or Georgia — I forget which — vanish into thin air without hardly any counted for Trump?

            This country will never have another Republican President, certainly not in my lifetime!

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Luke

          Finally I found a reply button for your message above ^^^ Read!! –
          Thanks for pointing me to holodomor page in wikipedia. As if I never edited that.
          Again, there was a famine. But Holodomor is something else. It is a politically motivated term made for accusing government of that time of specifically some sort of genocide of Ukrainians. And I already explained above why this is false narrative. Most people in Ukraine at that time were Russians because Ukraine itself was mostly Russia, or Novorossiya. Watch this vid, this is pretty close to what happened https://youtu.be/lLlp-LmXm3s
          BTW, newspapers there don’t say “Holodomor”, it says “Soviet Famine”

          So, your neighbor survived famine.

          “survived German refugee camps” – this is interesting. Germans considered Ukrainians and all Slavs as untermensch or subhumans. They loaded Ukrainian girls/women into trains and sent them to Germany, to work on farms and in family estates, in factories. They were also allowed to get pregnant from German officer. Germans wouldn’t touch relatives of Ukrainian collaborators. So, the refugee camp is most likely a reference to some sort of pre-labor facility where girls were sorted, who goes where.
          If she ended up in US, she was shipped to Germany then, she ended up on the American side and Americans were sending all collaborators to Ellis Island where POWs were held at that time. After the war, Americans were reluctant to ship Ukrainians, Estonians, etc back to USSR because they thought that these would be prosecuted harshly. Germans, Norwegians were shipped back.

          You’ve mentioned photos on that page. At least 2 are fake. The one from Kharkov – it has Ukrainian language sign – this is not Kharkov. Kharkov was Russian-language city, and still is. The photo of dead horse was seen among WW1 photos and had been reported. Just google “Ukraine ww1 dead horse photos” and you might see exactly same photo.

          The American newspapers publishing this – propaganda. German propaganda. Read about how William Hearst was using his media empire to paddle German propaganda. Even “America 1st” is from that time, so that US stays home and not fight Germany. He was big fan of Hitler who was on the raise. They wanted USSR to look really bad in eyes of America. One of the reasons, America was industrializing USSR at that time. Until about 1936. Just learn world affairs of that time. You might understand something.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Luke,

          some more. I actually started to read this newspaper – it says
          Starting from Moscow they went to complete tour of Ukraine but ended up in Tambov Russia on very modern collective farm. And found American, German and English communists working there. Hmmm interesting. It says 6 million. As we say, this is drawn in the sky. Today, different people still talk about different numbers and you hear 2mil, 3 mil, and up to 10 mil. Nobody knows. What we do know is that from 1926 to 1938 Ukraine population increased by 10 million. Check these pics https://br.pinterest.com/ARNAVUT63/russian-famine/

          they all look the same but refer to at least 3 different events over different times. This is how propaganda is made. Picture + label – apply anywhere where it suits you.

  • avatar
    Dan

    Resist when they lose, solemn talk about unity when they win, who do you think you’re fooling?

    That said, they don’t need to fool anyone for overtly political ads to be good business. Warm feelings among half the country beats apathy among the much more than half that they had before.

    No warm feelings here though.

  • avatar

    The ad was horrible. It had all the weight of cheesy round of Kumbaya by the campfire. To be lectured on unity by a company that does not care inasmuch disunity impacts profits was so fake it was painful to watch. Oh and almost forgot- a website about cars should lay off wading into politics- we do not come here for that.

    • 0 avatar
      Luke42

      It’s not as bad as the Gillette Ad.

      I’m even on the same side as the people who made the Gillette Ad, and I found it deeply cringy. So cringy that I haven’t knowingly bought a Gillette product since.

      Even so, this Jeep ad didn’t generate any warm fuzzies for me.

  • avatar
    Turbo Is Black Magic

    Unity… what a load of crap.
    There will be no unity in the next decade at least… fringe is now normalized and it will take a hell of a long time to turn that ship. The left has fired up the free money machine and is sticking it at red line for at least the next two years.. the right has embraced fully bat shit crazy ideas, stop the steal? Corona will just go away, let the states deal with it? I watched a sitting President try and destroy democracy…. there will be no unity unit both sides purge the fringe.

    How about limiting all politicians to two term limits, that’s something we can unite behind.

  • avatar
    redapple

    In the free and fair election that went Bidet ‘s way, i think 1 of 2 things happened.

    1- The election was rigged. Fishy stuff in counting ballots.
    or
    2- Massive turn out and the ballots went the DEMS way. These were ballots mailed out in states to people who DID NOT ASK FOR THEM. These “highly motivated voters” voted DEM.
    And
    The throw out rate /disqualification rate of mail in ballots went from 4.0% in the last 3 Presidential elections to

    0.4% THROW OUT RATE THIS TIME. (OF PREDOMINATELY DEM VOTES.)

    One of the 2 items DID HAPPEN.
    BOTH ARE equally BAD.
    FULL STOP

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      Where is the evidence of a rigged election?

      tRump’s legal (sic) minions had 61 court visits with many of those court’s presided by tRump appointees.

      Give it up.

      tRump lost because he was a sh!tty candidate who ran a sh!tty campaign.

  • avatar
    jimmy2x

    I’m not going to get involved with the political rants. Nobody will ever change anyone’s outlook by posting on the internet. Looking outside at my neighborhood, all is peaceful as folks get on with living. Really cannot understand what was the rationale for stirring up a hornets nest on a car site. Click-bait at its best.

    • 0 avatar
      Tim Healey

      The rationale is simple. We cover the auto industry. Almost all aspects of it. A car company made an ad. I thought after seeing the ad that the message missed the mark. I have a platform to express my opinion about it, as do the other writers who contribute here. So I used my platform to express my opinion with the goal of making you, the reader, think. You might agree with me. You might not. I may be way off-base. But expressing said opinion isn’t clickbait.

      You wouldn’t call it clickbait if a sports columnist expressed an opinion on an athlete’s off-field behavior, right? Or if an athlete did a controvesial ad.

      This isn’t any different. Writing an editorial about the actions of a company within our coverage purview is par for the course. And we’ve had plenty of opinion pieces blasting what we thought were bad ads, although most weren’t political.

      Clicks are nice, and if we get a lot of clicks from a piece, so much the better. But I don’t write any article solely for clicks. If I have thoughts and they fit the site and I can express them clearly, with intellectual honesty, I will do so. Whether you guys click or not.

      • 0 avatar
        ToolGuy

        @Tim Healey,

        I am often sarcastic/facetious, to the point where people tell me they don’t know when I am being serious. This is a serious question:

        Keeping the discussion to the ad, and only the ad, I have read through your post several times (complete with its one-sentence paragraphs and perhaps-just-a-little-condescending/patronizing/insert-synonym-here tone) and am still unclear as to what exactly your recommendation(s) to Jeep [Stellantis] would be.

        Should they have:
        a) Not run the ad?
        b) Changed the ad, and if so, what would your proposed messaging be?

        I am trying to picture you in the meeting(s) where this spot was developed and approved and imagining what you might say (and how the rest of the team might respond).

        Now back to sarcastic me:
        After viewing this ad, I plan to visit my local Jeep dealer – to purchase a white 1980 Jeep CJ-5. (Do they keep them in stock?)

        • 0 avatar
          Art Vandelay

          If one is trying to do a feel good spot promoting unity, perhaps Bruce Springsteen wasn’t the guy.

          Then again, the haters found something to hate in the Dolly Parton spot. Dolly Freaking Parton…who is probably the least controversial entertainer alive.

        • 0 avatar
          Tim Healey

          I probably wouldn’t have done this ad if I were Jeep. Not right now, anyway. I think they simply missed the point. Left, right, and center can’t “unite” when a fair amount of people have broken with reality.

          There was once a point when the ad would’ve made sense, when we were divided but operating on the same set of facts. That time has passed.

  • avatar
    Superdessucke

    “But some who *were* violent were acting out on the built-up frustration of decades of racial abuse/killings by the police.”

    Did you know 4,174 people were shot in Chicago in 2020, with 719 shot and killed? Can you guess how many of those were by the police?

    • 0 avatar
      Superdessucke

      Alright I will give the answer. 7 killed and 13 wounded. That’s less than 1% of those killed and less than 1/2 a percentage point of those shot.

      The real problem is black on black crime. About 80% of the homicide victims in Chicago are African-American, and they are being killed by other African-Americans, not by police, on the vast whole.

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        Superdessucke,

        “are being killed by other African-Americans, not by police, on the vast whole.”

        True. But don’t tell that to the organization that claims to be worried so much about the lives of african-americans. Or, the “anti”-fascist guys.

        The utter stupidity of the “defund the police” demand is that just the type of training that would help the police to deal better with these situations is one of the first things that gets cut when the budget tightens.

      • 0 avatar
        golden2husky

        Superdessucke, the police are supposed to be held to a higher standard. Kill one as opposed to an ordinary citizen and you will be held on charges much higher than killing Kenny. Rightly so, because of the job they are tasked with and the risks they take. Conversely, they need to be held to a higher standard than a street criminal. In questionable cases I would always side with LE. But when you see a video of a cop shooting a black man in the back and then tampering with evidence, or kneeling on a man’s neck when they are not (or no longer) a threat, that has to be dealt with with the same vigor as the cop killer. But it is not – instead, almost universally they get off scot free. That rage we saw on TV over a “stolen” election? How do you think black people feel after the treatment they have received by an admittedly small percentage of the police force for decades? That Portland is not a yearly occurrence frankly is amazing.

        • 0 avatar
          Superdessucke

          @golden – Sorry, I just saw this. I’m not sure I understand your response. None of the 20 police shootings I cited to you were unjustified shootings, at least to my knowledge. If I had to guess, those were situations where the officers had to defend themselves from bodily harm or death, which they are allowed to do under current policies. There are efforts to change that, but until then…

          I was pointing out that a very tiny percentage of African-American deaths via violent homicide in Chicago are at the hands of police. Most are at the hands of other African-Americans. So what’s the cause of that? That’s what needs to be looked at.

          I’d say “police who wrongly kill should be punished” blah blah. But that goes without saying, and to even acknowledge of it wrongfully shifts the focus onto a tangent. 4,154 people were shot but not by police. This shows the rioting was misplaced.

  • avatar
    NigelShiftright

    I think the best way to evaluate this commercial is to compare it to all the “let’s seek unity” commercials that were run after the 2016 election.

    This article could have run on J*l*pn*k (“Automotive News As If Reported By Oberlin Sophomores) without raising a single eyebrow.

  • avatar
    Flipper35

    Just to keep things in perspective, it wasn’t just the fringe right that was storming the capitol. Many from antifa were running side by side with them.

  • avatar
    chris724

    After 4 years of videos of regular citizens being terrorized by the left, I’m not all that concerned about the Democrat assholes in DC. This post from Mr. Healy is a shockingly bad take.

  • avatar
    Art Vandelay

    Time to fire up the ol’ “Bring Back Bertel Schmidt” movement. At least his antics were entertaining!

  • avatar
    Tim Healey

    The rationale is simple. We cover the auto industry. Almost all aspects of it. A car company made an ad. I thought after seeing the ad that the message missed the mark. I have a platform to express my opinion about it, as do the other writers who contribute here. So I used my platform to express my opinion with the goal of making you, the reader, think. You might agree with me. You might not. I may be way off-base. But expressing said opinion isn’t clickbait.

    You wouldn’t call it clickbait if a sports columnist expressed an opinion on an athlete’s off-field behavior, right? Or if an athlete did a controvesial ad.

    This isn’t any different. Writing an editorial about the actions of a company within our coverage purview is par for the course. And we’ve had plenty of opinion pieces blasting what we thought were bad ads, although most weren’t political.

    Clicks are nice, and if we get a lot of clicks from a piece, so much the better. But I don’t write any solely for clicks. If I have thoughts and they fit the site and I can express them clearly, with intellectual honesty, I will do so. Whether you guys click or not.

    • 0 avatar
      Pig_Iron

      Yup, the culture war has permeated the auto industry since the Robert Farago’s Death Watch series, maybe even Unsafe At Any Speed. Auto ads are now political statements chock full of emotional appeals and virtue signaling – but the left are coming for them anyway. On a related note I am both amused and annoyed by the current Biden voter regret. Brace for impact.
      ;-)

  • avatar
    Snooder

    Well, as expected, the comment section here proves the article’s point.

    You have your typical mix of:

    1. I know that was bad, but what about the Dems!!!!

    2. Voter fraud is real and I know it was caused by that Jewish Space Laser that did the wildfires.

    3. Calling for unity, decency, or just basic common sense means you’re on THEIR side.

    Society is broken, fundamentally broken, when a large segment of the populace seems to be unable to accept reality. And, unfortunately, I’m afraid that it’s the tiny minority that we all want to believe. I know way too many people in real life who seem normal and then suddenly burst out with the same crazy alternate reality lies they’ve been fed by Fox News and Alex Jones.

    For example, earlier on in the lockdowns a buddy of mine sent me a video of a preacher ranting for 45 minutes that the coronavirus is a hoax made up by “globalists” so that Bill Gates can inject mind control nanomachines into your bloodstream.

    This buddy wasn’t a conspiracy guy. He’s a standard, regular conservative guy. But somehow he’s been fed enough bullshit by people who really ought to know better that he starts thinking that corona is a hoax. And maybe he thinks the nanobot mind control is a bit too farfetched, but he still got led down a path of lies and bullshit. And to this freaking day, this dude still kinda thinks corona is a hoax.

    People like that exist in the tens of millions in this country. And it’s only a short walk from “corona is a hoax” to “the democrats are lying to us to stop Trump” to “the democrats stole the election” and then ultimately to “we have to take back the country by force”.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    Call it what you want but this is clickbait. The purpose of this posting is to increase readership. If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck it is a duck.

    • 0 avatar
      Tim Healey

      If the purpose of writing posts is to increase readership, then all posts are “clickbait.”

      “Clickbait” is a horribly misunderstood term. We write something we want you to read, whether you agree or not. That’s what journalism has always done!

      That said, the main purpose of this, or any, post isn’t solely to increase readership. Yes, we do want to increase readership. It makes us money and also, it would be sort of pointless to write things if no one read them. But it’s about more than just getting eyeballs. We’re here to inform and/or entertain you, but also to stimulate you intellectually. If we have an opinion and it’s within the site’s coverage purview, we won’t be afraid to write it.

      Something that challenges your beliefs is not “clickbait.”

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        Tim Healey,

        Unless I am reading the article wrong, you are insulting something like half of your readership: “people are living in an alternate reality.” “Read the last bit again and let it sink in. I’ll wait.” etc.

        If you want to do that help yourself. But, at the risk of sounding trite, it’s not a very nice way to talk to people.

        And, as I’ve said elsewhere in my comments on this article: If the left has such confidence that the election was fair and that they can produce the evidence necessary to prove that, why in heavens name not have a real investigation and thereby shut up the “conspiracy theorists,” “deniers, “alternate reality-ites”??? Otherwise it sounds like nothing more than an empty assertion.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Old_WRX,

          nobody cares about integrity anymore. Everybody living the moment. We’re going to the cliff….

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            slavuta,

            “We’re going to the cliff…”

            Nonsense, everything is fine just go watch CNN and you’ll feel better:-)

            American society is heading toward a wall at WOT. But, it could be seen coming for at least twenty years. The truth is we don’t need help from China; the US would have self-destructed on its own.

            When I was a youngun in the 60’s we never locked our doors during the day time — even if we went out and would be gone an hour or two. We often left the garage door open. Then one day we came home and the oars for the row boat were missing from the garage… No one would have hesitated to trust any of their neighbors… If someone’s car died beside the road and another car stopped it would automatically be assumed that they stopped to help…

            The amazing thing is that it has been so long a time coming and nobody did a f*cking thing about stopping it. Madness.

            I have noticed in these comments that one side still mostly keeps their comments relatively civil. The other side less so.

  • avatar
    whynotaztec

    I was going to say something like “why no media outrage over the police killing an unarmed woman?” But some of you would agree wholeheartedly, and some of you would find my statement utterly preposterous. To attempt to view things objectively in this society we have built today is frankly stupid, and you will get absolutely nowhere if you attempt to do so.

    It is quite clear to me there will be no unity in this country. Blame what you will – social media, outside influence, multicultural failure, the basic horrible nature of humanity, or maybe even just that the US’ lifespan is finite. Make plans now to deal with this mess and hopefully survive.

  • avatar
    SnarkyRichard

    Jersey shore Springsteen in a cowboy hat is laughable . At a Springsteen concert when he plays those Grapes of Wrath Okie type songs most everyone in the audience takes a break . Fans want rock not that phony schlock . Jeep should focus on making reliable vehicles instead of idealistic pie in the sky pipe dreams that only a child might believe .

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      Asking Jeep to build a reliable vehicle is by definition “idealistic pie in the sky pipe dreams that only a child might believe”

      LOL

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Jeep: Just who do you take us for? Toyota?

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        Lou_BC,

        “Asking Jeep to build a reliable vehicle ”

        Our (admittedly near the end of its road) 2002 Liberty has actually been very reliable. Not as reliable as the 1987 Corolla I had years back, but let’s be real.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          “but let’s be real.”

          I know multiple owners of Jeep vehicles. They’ve all been less reliable than those of the competition. JD Power, Vincentric and other sources all put them below par.

          Ask my buddy who had to get a new engine for his Wrangler Unlimited just off of warranty about reliability. He owns a Jeep because there isn’t any current competition for brand new easily modifiable off-road vehicles. Most of the other guys I know with Jeeps say the same thing.

  • avatar
    wolfwagen

    As my 16 yo daughter (who is not very political but probably leans a little more left of center & LOVES Jeeps) said, “Any company that BLATANTLY takes sides in politics is just dumb. You’re going to piss people off and damage your brand”
    She has a good head on her shoulders!

    Ill go one step further. When The media takes sides in politics WE. ALL. LOSE.

  • avatar
    reclusive_in_nature

    The Dems will get the same treatment that they gave the Republicans during the last four years.

    Not one iota more than that.

  • avatar
    6250Claimer

    “A fringe element isn’t interested in unity” should read “the entire Biden administration isn’t interested in unity” would be the correct way to state it.

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      6250Claimer,

      That’s so bloody obvious it hardly needs to be said.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      Their unity is this – unite on our side.
      Its like
      when conservative does not like guns, he does not buy it
      when liberal does not like guns, he does not want anyone to buy it

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        slavuta,

        “when liberal does not like guns, he does not want anyone to buy it”

        More like “liberal” government wants a conveniently disarmed public. But, then I don’t need to tell you that:-)

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          BTW,
          in Russia, leader of a Liberal-Democratic party (who could of thought!) wants to pass a bill to permit all people to carry guns.

          Russia is upside down. Totally. Liberal/Democratic there, means freedom. Communists there believe in God.

          Ah.. yea. They have United Democratic Party “apple” – how fitting again! These are equivalent of our AOC and cr-p

          But in Ukraine it is most fun – they fist fight all the time.

          In one recent cession, one Ukrainian official said, “this is the first session under president………biden”. fun fun

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            There is absolutely nothing “liberal” or “progressive” about our new great leaders and teachers (sorry, I wasn’t going to say that, but I gave in to temptation). The communism/socialism they are fomenting is stale, stale, stale (as you’ve pointed out). And, it’s hard to miss the irony that it’s the republicans who have been championing free speech lately — the left would have us believe that they are a bunch of so, so dangerous fascists. The left has been doing everything in their power to destroy any freedoms. It’s not the Ruskies who have it upside down; it’s the ‘Merkins.

  • avatar
    Art Vandelay

    Tom Petty > Bruce Springsteen.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    @Lou_BC–What else can you expect out of Jeep when the company that makes them were Italian and now French both not noted for quality made vehicles. As Scotty Kilmer says “endless money pits.”

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    Article is less about stimulating discussion especially when many are so divided. The ad itself is not going to change most people’s beliefs. Better for Jeep to spend more time showing their product and espousing the qualities and virtues that only Jeep has and leave opinions and politics out of advertising. Not saying that the ad does not bring up some points to ponder but better to stick to the virtues of the product than to alienate a potential customer.

  • avatar
    el scotto

    Oh Lordy, is this what I have to look forward to? Get older, wake up at 3:30 AM to relieve my bladder, can’t go back to sleep, watch some NEWSMAX maybe some RT, drift over to Fox news. Wake up in my Lazy-e-boy with drool on my chin and being deeply afraid of anyone who doesn’t look or think like me. Hopefully the bottle blonde with the big hooters will be on Fox news. Maybe Roger Ailes had her and the other bottle blonde with even bigger hooters wrestle as he watched. Eat my oatmeal, drink my prune juice. Now it’s after lunch and I’ve ate enough cilium to start a farm and can’t go poop. I know what I’ll do! I’ll go on a car site and push my wing-nut conspiracy ideas.

  • avatar
    el scotto

    Who knows? “Stolen Election” may gain in popularity and become the “Lost Cause” for this century.

  • avatar
    Lorenzo

    Bottom line: Unity is hard, especially after a presidential election. Some commentator keeps saying, “The remedy is frequent elections”, but that’s loony talk.

    As the saying goes, after every election, the country is divided into two opposing groups: those who are afraid the winning candidates won’t live up to their campaign promises, and those who are afraid they will.

  • avatar
    Ryannosaurus

    Tim,

    Read this post on Monday and have made the decision to stop visiting TTAC. This was the “jump the shark” moment for me. Have been a loyal reader since 2010-11. Watched this site rise and fall, then rise again. Fargo days were a bit rough. Read great articles on the inner workings of the industry. Even sparked an article with a question myself https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/07/piston-slap-fallacy-believing-engine-hour-meters/
    Exchanged emails with Steve Lang about a car purchase and supported Michael Karesh’s efforts to track reliability trends. But the best part of this website has been the “Best and Brightest” comments. So many great discussions. Last rides by Crabspirits is worth a shout out https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/04/last-rides-compilation-album/

    The downward trend in quality over the last 2 years has been dramatic, but I kept up hope. The constant pro-lockdown opinion you push almost made me leave earlier. But after reading how you admit to being a germaphobe with your description of trying to stay clean while pumping gas, was entertaining and sad. It must be tough for you being in a pandemic when you are already scarred of viruses. I really do sympathies with your feelings and hope you make it through this OK.

    Unfortunately it is now time for me to say goodbye. Your use of this site to push your politics is too much for me. Reading through the comments (when I originally read through them there were only 75) you can find many examples of thoughtful insights where members brought up different view points and were tolerant of others. Tolerance can only be achieved when you allow people who you disagree with to continue, tolerating things that you agree with is not tolerance. Read that last bit again and let it sink in.

    Writing off the fears of others (corrupt election) would be similar to me not respecting your decision to avoid contact from germs. Maybe you have a health condition and are at risk, maybe you are just afraid. Either way I respect and tolerate your viewpoint. I wish you could do the same.

    • 0 avatar
      Tim Healey

      Constant pro-lockdown push? I seem to recall only arguing in favor of lockdowns once, when Elon Musk was saying things about the coronavirus that were inaccurate, and given his fame, it was dangerous for him to spread it.

      I don’t think I am the person who wrote about being afraid to get sick while pumping gas. I think that may have been Steph. That said, I don’t think it’s odd at all to take precautions against the coronavirus. It’s deadlier than the flu, and even if you get it and survive it can lead to long-term health complications. It also sounds like no fun to have. Finally, you can spread it even if you don’t have feel sick. Not wanting to get loved ones sick seems reasonable to me. I am no germaphobe, and I am not immunocompromised, but it just seems like common sense to want to avoid this particular virus.

      We do respect the opinions of our commenters. Many of them disagreed with me and that’s fine! To my knowledge, we didn’t ban or warn anyone, and we wouldn’t unless they broke our rules. I personally approved five comments stuck in spam that all disagreed with me, including one that was a bit insulting to me (though not quite enough to violate our rules).

      Finally, cars and politics intersect constantly. Have you not read our news posts on regulatory issues? That said, in 3+ years, I have written only perhaps five or so opinion pieces that I’d say are political in nature.

      Thank you for reading.

  • avatar
    Tele Vision

    Jeep pulled the Springsteen ad. He was caught drunk-driving in November, apparently.

    • 0 avatar
      SnarkyRichard

      Almost a fitting ending to a terrible commercial and an awful Super Bowl . Wonder if he was driving a Jeep at the time ?

    • 0 avatar
      ToolGuy

      Jeep is on fire (the good kind). 2020 sales were over 800,000, more than double the level of just 10 short years ago.
      https://carsalesbase.com/us-jeep/

      Say the 2-minute Super Bowl ad cost ~$20,000,000. Say it was a complete mistake. That’s 25 bucks a car – who cares.

      Take last year’s 1-minute Hyundai GV80 commercial. If you spread the cost over just GV80 volume in 2020, you get almost $7,000 per car. If you think the commercial was bad, then we could have done a lot of other things with $7,000 per vehicle (free option content, lease subvention, yada yada).

      THIS is the power of scale, and this is why automakers want to be big big big.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        Can Jeep do all these ?

        Hyundai Corporation’s business fields

        Trading; Ships, Automobiles, Machinery, Plant, Electric & Electronics, Chemicals, Steel & Metal, Coal, and other raw materials etc.
        Project Organization; Power Plants, Roads, Off-Shore Facilities, and Industrial Plants etc.
        Resource Development; LNG in Yemen/Oman/Qatar, Coal Mine in Drayton Australia, and 11-2 Gas block in Vietnam etc.
        Overseas Investment; Qingdao Hyundai Shipbuilding in China, Inti Industrial Complex in Indonesia, POS-Hyundai Coil Center etc.

    • 0 avatar
      3SpeedAutomatic

      How could an ad agency fail to perform a complete background check on a BIG time celebrity in a BIG time commercial?

      Somewhat ironic, the DD charge falls into the inflated persona of a rebel in a open top Jeep, defying conventional lifestyles.

      Is this what Stellantis really wanted?? The internet will be abuzz with conspiracy theories!!

  • avatar
    Art Vandelay

    Perhaps this ad can unite us after all. Most of us can agree that people operating motor vehicles while drunk deserve Society’s scorn. Maybe ol’ Bruce should get the Gina Carrano treatment.

    Can’t stand him anyway, politics aside. The dude sounds and looks constipated when he sings.

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      Gina Carrano shouldn’t have gotten the treatment she did. We really seem to be going down the toilet with this intolerance for people having and voicing their opinions. One of the inescapable liabilities of free speech is that you will hear things that you find offensive, that you disagree with, and that you believe are untrue. I’ve disagreed strongly with some of the posts on here, but I would never dream of suggesting that those comments be censored or that the authors be punished.

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