By on February 21, 2020

ford

Given that domestic full-size pickups generate more money for their respective builders than a war bonds drive, every redesign is fraught with danger.

OEMs walk an especially fine line in this segment, fearful of making a vehicle too bland or too similar to the previous generation, but understandably nervous about breaking out of the box and alienating loyal return customers. Polarizing styling isn’t a recipe for success — the 2019 Chevrolet Silverado taught us a lesson about that (though GM might disagree).

As it prepares for a launch later this year, spy shots of the upcoming Ford F-150 reveal enough to show Ford’s playing it safe… but not too safe.

Thursday brought photos of a lightly disguised 2021 F-150 SuperCrew tooling around Michigan, photos which we don’t have. We can point you in the right direction, however, as the world’s most important vehicle deserves a good look.

Your author is of the opinion that the F-150’s most recent refresh offered no visual improvements to the 13th-generation model, which bowed for 2015. On the other hand, Ram earns applause for replacing, after a full decade, the still-in-production 1500 Classic with a model this writer can’t say a bad word about, design-wise. The Silverado is another story, though we should all be thankful GMC kept its adventurous streak in check.

As seen in the photos linked to above, the 2021 F-150 seems to blend what’s good about the new-for-2019 Ram and GMC offerings. C-shaped LED running lamps surround stacked head lamps, seemingly mimicking the Sierra, while the grille becomes less rectangular in nature, donning a thick chrome border and securing the Blue Oval logo with a similarly shiny crossbar. Black honeycomb mesh fills the F-150’s mouth. Ford avoids further Ram associations by keeping that chrome away from the headlamps’ borders, except for their most inboard point.

The new pickup’s face does harken more than a bit to the smaller Ranger, though the grille shape is not a match. Foglamps grow horizontally, and are no longer contained within a pair of bumper openings.

To the untrained eye, the cab looks like a direct carryover, while the tail lamps and lenses evolve into a slightly new shape. Nothing here looks like something that’s going to put off a Ford diehard, which suits Dearborn’s purposes just fine. As the best-selling vehicle in America since the Pilgrims landed, Ford knows not to mess too much with a good thing (the current-gen’s aluminum body swap being an exception to that rule). No Cybertruck clone with bed-mounted e-scooter deployer here, though avante-garde truck buyers will have a hybrid version to choose from when the model goes on sale later this year. Come 2021, an all-electric version joins the fray.

[Image: Ford]

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89 Comments on “2021 Ford F-150 Looks to Avoid Enemies...”


  • avatar
    Hummer

    But the real question is does the 150 get the 7.3L. The fact a Raptor can be optioned up to $76k and still be stuck with a V6, when one can step into a 7.3L F250 Tremor at $56k makes no sense.

    • 0 avatar
      Hummer

      I see we’re back to hiding new comments.

    • 0 avatar
      jack4x

      Not likely, since it has less power and torque than the HO 3.5 as well as almost certainly worse EPA ratings, which matters in the under 8600 GVWR class. Average Joe will look at a window sticker that says 15 mpg highway and fewer HP and will move right along to the Ecoboost.

      Just get the 250 and install softer shocks if you’re worried about ride. Let the half ton buyers have their half sized engines.

      • 0 avatar
        Hummer

        I’ve found the 250 to ride well, and I assume the ride would be even better on the Tremors 35s. Also I doubt anyone shopping a $76k truck double checks the fuel economy, having a V8 option would be an easy up sell to customers trying to get away from the ecoboosts weadeater inspired exhaust note.

        • 0 avatar
          jack4x

          For whatever reason a couple MPG on a fuel economy sticker or a 25 cent change at the gas pump has a huge effect on people’s psyche even if it makes no sense financially.

          That’s why when prices spiked you saw people rush out and sign $500/month notes on new hybrids that saved them $200/month in gas. It’s foolishness but here we are.

          • 0 avatar
            golden2husky

            jack4x you would be surprised. My county added a five cent bag surcharge on supermarket bags and the bag usage rated dropped by 70%. The folks in this community can easily afford the 60 cents in bags to carry their groceries to their Range Rover but surprisingly choose not to.

          • 0 avatar
            deanst

            With Toyota selling hybrids for a few thousand over their gas counterparts, I’m amazed more people don’t go hybrid.

      • 0 avatar
        ajla

        I’m sure the 7.3L (and 6.2L for that matter) has much more potential output available in it than what it is rated in the HD trucks. Granted that could come at the expense of durability.

        • 0 avatar
          JimZ

          guy on YouTube got a 7.3 up to 563 hp/541 tq with headers, a cam, and tune.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            Damn someone’s already cut a cam for one of these engines? That was fast.

            I wonder if they had to strengthen internals? Probably still in testing phase right now to determine what blows up first and needs hardened parts.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            if you’re doing development, a one-off cam cut from billet probably doesn’t take too long to have made.

            look up REVan Evan on YT. I don’t think they did anything to the internals other than the cam. And even with the hot cam it still idles reasonably well. the last bit they did an intake and little port work on the heads and got up to 588 hp.

            There is clearly a LOT of untapped potential in these.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            Your absolutely right, if that’s all it took to hit those figures you posted then that’s insanely impressive. I’m interested in knowing how much fuel economy was impacted.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            A Ford engine doesn’t count on the performance scene until someone posts a timeslip of it motivating a Fox body Mustang down a 1/4 mile strip. This will be the first modern Ford engine that actually will drop into older Ford chassis without major surgery to the front end. The Modular family is like dropping a 385 series big block in dimensionally…hence all the LS powered Fords at the strip (not to mention check out Coyote swap prices…hard pass and I bleed Ford Blue).

            The LS will remain the go to for years because they are everywhere, but the more this thing trickles down, the better. Eventually it will be cheap enough to drop one in a Lincoln Mk VII and all will be right with the world.

            Have seen some Ecoboost V6 motors in foxes of late…some running giant Turbos. Wouldn’t mind a Fox Body T-Bird Turbo Coupe with such a set up.

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            Why bastardize with so much 302 aftermarket support? From strokers, 4-bolts, 5.8 SVO blocks, to stroker 5.8s

            Just the original 302 has tons of potential. But the stock Turbo Coupe 2.3 (it’s no Pinto motor) has a huge aftermarket too and was overbuilt for the occasion. All forged internals and a high nickel content block.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            “Why bastardize with so much 302 aftermarket support?”

            Because anything that puts a Ford motor up there versus an LS is a win in my book. The 302 has tons of support, but the ceiling is nowhere near what you can get from an LS. The Lima 2.3 can make tons of power too, but it is old school, and drives like an 80s turbo (lag). I like it though and would have no issue keeping either unless I was trying to beat LS powers rigs down the strip.

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            What’s the 302’s “ceiling”? Or are we talking “stock”?

            Turbo “lag” can be easily fixed, but the point of a 2.3 in a Fox isn’t to dominate at the drag strip. Drive one “bone stock” and you’ll know.

            Nine Second 302s and 2.3s have been done for decades and the recipe isn’t so much a secret, or exotic parts. And we’re talking full bodied cars you’d never suspect.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            Different level of competition. Pretty much talking strip only cars…you don’t really get into LS swaps until you get there. Yes, plenty of potential in both of those Ford motors for a street/strip hero though.

            The Lima 2.3T cars are like anything though…big Turbo for big power = big lag. At the strip you just let it build boost prior to launch but on the street modern Turbos just drive so much better day to day. There is no bigger fan of those old turbo 2.3’s than this guy, but a 3.5 TT in one of those Aero-Birds would be an amazing daily driver.

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            It makes as much sense as putting a Coyote is an ’85 Corvette.

            There’s just plenty of better solutions. Although I’m looking for an early C4 Corvette and already own the ’88 Turbo Coupe donor, low miles.

            Think about it. A daily driver C4 with a 700+ HP 2.3 with billet pistons, O-ringed heads, huge turbo, etc.

            Perfect weight distribution to say the least. Customizers and hot rodders that know their engines run those 2.3s in sand rails, buggies, and T-buckets.

        • 0 avatar
          DenverMike

          It’s not just for durability, but to not cannibalize the powerstroke too much.

          The big block 460 came with a restrictor plate in its final years. The difference (without it) was ridiculous. My (industrial) F-450 would do 0-60 mph in 10.5 seconds weighing 12K lbs+. Crazy Fast throttle response!

          god I loved that truck! Yeah 6 mpg but still. Buyers of new 7.3 won’t care about hp/tq figures too much, or mpg. 0-60 ETs say more than anything.

          • 0 avatar
            jack4x

            I bet they have better margins on the 7.3L than the Powerstroke, so they would love to see “cannibalization”.

            It’s about a $2000 option over the 6.2L and is probably cheaper to manufacture. Yeah the diesel is $10K, but how much of that is eaten up in a far more expensive engine and emissions system?

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            Or eaten up on warranty costs.

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            Competitors have to buy from Cummins and Isuzu and probably out $5K per engine. Ford just pays themselves, but why would emissions be more expensive to mass-produce than say power seats or power running boards?

            Parts are parts. Try going to the dealer (Parts) and ordering compete leather power seat assemblies. They may charge you $3,983 (each) but costs them pennies on the dollar.

            It’s not like Ford won’t let you get the power stroke on a base/base stripper, but if Ford isn’t quadrupling their money on power strokes, I’d be amazed. Of course billions have to remain in the kitty for warranty, class actions and whatnot.

      • 0 avatar
        dont.fit.in.cars

        “Let the half ton buyers have their half sized engines.”

        There’s beauty in brutal truth

        • 0 avatar
          jack4x

          @DenverMike,

          It’s not that the individual parts are that expensive, but there’s a lot more of them in the diesel. The engine is more complex, made of more expensive materials, carries a longer warranty with associated costs, etc. It’s not comparable to a power seat which is a few parts that aren’t very expensive.

          I’m not privy to any of Ford’s manufacturing data or cost structure, so this is all guesswork on my part. But it would not surprise me one bit if Ford preferred a 7.3 sale to a 6.7 sale all things equal.

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            I’m sure Ford just prefers to make lots of money. Figure if Ford is just breaking even on the PSD, Ram and GM would have to be selling their big diesels at a loss.

            Take Cummins. How could they stay business if diesel parts cost that darn much in mass production setting? Do they get special reduced prices on parts but Ford can’t?

            Cummins isn’t supplying engines to Ram without substantial profit. And Ram isn’t selling diesels just for the fun of it.

            There’s tremendous liability involved and it had better be very profitable. For diesel builders and sellers. Ford just happens to be both.

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        ” Let the half ton buyers have their half sized engines.”

        1990 F-250 diesel: 7.3 liters, 185 hp, 338 lb-ft
        2020 F-150 3.5EB: 2.7 liters, 325 hp, 400 lb-ft.

        I’d say the “half sized engines” are doing just fine. You don’t need 900+ lb-ft of torque just to tool around in your lifted brodozer showing off your sick GRID wheels.

        • 0 avatar
          ajla

          “You don’t need 900+ lb-ft of torque just to tool around”

          Doesn’t hurt though.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            “Doesn’t hurt though.”

            I suppose, if the most important thing is that you have it, even if you never use it.

            that’s why people brag about the things they buy as though it’s a personal accomplishment.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            “ Doesn’t hurt though.”

            Aye

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            “that’s why people brag about the things they buy as though it’s a personal accomplishment.”

            Maybe. I don’t talk to many people TBH.
            Although being able to afford a $70K+ truck does seem like a type of personal accomplishment and having a Powerstroke-level output could be fun.

          • 0 avatar
            jack4x

            I don’t need 900 lb-ft of torque. 400-500 is enough to tow and haul what I need to do.

            I do prefer that it come from a big V8 vs. a turbo 6.

            I test drove a 7.3L F250 with 4.30 gears today and was impressed. If an extra 130 hp is available with just a cam, headers, and tune, that speaks well for this engine going forward, even if it never makes it into the F150.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            “ I test drove a 7.3L F250 with 4.30 gears today and was impressed.”

            Spill the beans, how is it?

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            “Maybe. I don’t talk to many people TBH.
            Although being able to afford a $70K+ truck does seem like a type of personal accomplishment and having a Powerstroke-level output could be fun.”

            Agree, but if you read these forums the consensus is nobody can afford them without a 15 year mortgage. If you don’t like some sort of sedan that sells in numbers akin to the Renegade in Australia, you are compensating…or so I have read over and over again on here.

          • 0 avatar
            jack4x

            My #1 takeaway is I think the 6.2L is not long for this world, which is kind of a shame because it never really got the respect it deserved. The 7.3 is just stronger through all of the rev range. I was obviously only driving empty, but with a trailer hooked I’m sure it’s even more of a difference. It’s a true big block feel, but has a 6000 RPM redline so it starts out with good pull down low and keeps revving longer than you’d expect.

            The 10 speed is busy though. That is just a lot of gears and it’s anxious to upshift unless you’re really on the gas. I was in 10th at 45 mph under gentle acceleration and I was able to fool it into being in the wrong gear a few times, which was annoying. I’d prefer a 6 or 8 speed.

            I don’t care for the facelifted 2020 look overall and the 7.3 is not that much better than my 6.2 that I feel compelled to upgrade, but if I was ordering today I’d get it without hesitation.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            Also, any idea on wether there are plans to eventually shrink this motor to something more likely to be in a half ton or Mustang (Dream on…no mainstream Mustang GT or F150 is ever getting 7.3 Liters…even in the old days that wasnt the norm.)

            But this is likely cheaper to make than the Coyote and easier to package in some sort of “low deck” version akin to the 5.3 LS motors.

            GM has thankfully been able to shed the whole pushrod=low tech lump image that drove Ford to go OHC/DOHC with the modular motors. I can’t help but think Ford goes here. and saves the DOHC stuff for the turbo motors. The Ecoboost line is popular and I don’t see that going away.

        • 0 avatar
          DenverMike

          The 2.7 doesn’t compare to the 7.3 diesel, except on paper.

          The old 7.3 is still doing the job, not just in pickups but motor homes and industrial trucks, 33K lbs, no problem.

          No 2.7 could do that. Yeah some are just in it to show off, but it’s silly how it gets the goat of haters.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            any of those old 7.3 diesels are either on their 3rd or 4th rebuild by now, or are guzzling engine oil almost as rapidly as fuel.

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            The old 7.3 is a million mile engine if there ever was one.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            I’m talking about the IDI, not the Powerstroke. The IDI 6.9/7.3 would taper their cylinders by 175,000 miles and oil consumption would skyrocket. They were decent engines for the day (esp. compared to the GM 5.7 and 6.2 diesels) but they weren’t built like “million mile” heavy truck engines.

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            I’ve owned a fleet of 6.9 and early 7.3 diesels, used industrially and personal and have never heard of such a problem.

            None of them were bought new, all with high miles and I just recently sold my last one. I worked on all of them myself and helped friends and neighbors with theirs.

            Exactly none of them ever needed rebuilds, internal engine repair or consumed excessive oil. If you use the wrong oil, I don’t know.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      The most persistent rumour is for the Raptor to receive a variant of the GT500 supercharged V8.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      Nope. CAFE counts in the half-ton segment.

  • avatar

    Actually looks pretty good. Seems to clean up most of my complaints about the front ends on these.

    • 0 avatar
      sgeffe

      I’m impressed! Less Tonka, more straightforward lines. It actually looks a little bit lower, which is a good thing. When I was at the auto show a couple weeks ago, the Ram pickups didn’t have running boards installed, and I think I almost pulled something trying to enter the cockpit of one — a 1500, no less — for a look. Ten years ago, you only really needed running boards on the HD pickups from any of the Big 2.5. (And even at nearly 50, I’m still limber enough to climb up if needed, but it’s a mountain-climb into an HD these days; there was an F-350 King Ranch around, and I got into the driver’s seat—with the help of running boards.)

      This truck very much like the 2004-20whatever that generation was — the one after the “jellybeans.” Not a bad thing at all.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        Ford has a different grill for each trim level so I’m not going to be heaping too much praise on them yet. I’ve found that they have done a better job with their body coloured or flat black grills. I’m not a fan of their chrome.

  • avatar
    Lie2me

    Still looks like an F150 to me. The mistake Ford doesn’t want to repeat is the famous “jellybean” F150 of yore. I liked it, but I guess I’m about the only one

  • avatar
    Art Vandelay

    The F-Series needs updates in the interior…That is what will make or break this. Nobody was complaining about the styling or powertrain options. I like the styling so I’m good with this, but will wait to see how the inside shakes out.

    • 0 avatar
      Hummer

      This, get rid of the base 2” screen, either get rid of the screen all together or at least make it 5.5” base.

      Also I’m not sure why Fords truck has always rode worse than GMs. They did at least kinda fix the seat issue I had on a 05 with better seats in the ‘16 I used.

  • avatar
    EBFlex

    Yeesh.

    I see Ford isn’t going to allow Chevy to have any number one titles

    (In this case Ford wants “the worlds ugliest truck“ title too)

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      Realistically, buyers will scoop up the F-series without regard to its looks, simply because it is a Ford and the best that Ford has to offer.

      RAM is the one that has the most appeal – their Laramie interiors are truly outstandingly luxurious and their 5.7L Displacement on Demand are so much better than the creepy GM DFM with Stop/Start.

      And for those who simply had the rest and don’t want to go back there, there is always the Tundra and the Titan. You simply cannot beat their prices for a 1/2-ton pickup truck. And people who actually use their trucks, they appeal based on cost, value for the money, and raw, gnarly V8 power.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        Titans are a hard sell. Even the Cummins V8 could not save them. I know one guy who is into Titan trucks. His 1st one needed a massive amount of work. He is now on his 2nd. Over the same time frame I’m still driving the same 2010 F150. The only work I’ve had done other than brakes or tires has been a set of rear shocks, a rear pinion seal and 2 front axle seals. The only warranty work was to replace the solenoids that control 4 wheel drive.

        The Tundra has a much better reputation but is rather limited in trim options. I prefer crewcab trucks and will not buy one without a 6.5 foot box.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          There are always going to be stories out there of heartbreak and let-down, and it is no different with trucks from Ford, RAM and GM. Plenty of people who bought A Ford, RAM or GM truck and had to bring it in for warranty service.

          What amazes me is that the guy in your example bought a second Titan. If I had such a bad experience, I’d switch.

          That’s what happened to me. I had owned a Silverado, an F150 and a RAM 2500 Cummins, and my ownership experience with them caused me to switch to Tundra and Sequoia.

          But if I have to step up to a 3/4-ton with a huge V8 in the future? Right now it is a toss-up between a tried and true, proven F250 gas V8 or a Luxurious RAM 2500 gas V8, should Tundra ever downsize to a 4.6L in the future Tundra.

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            For every million pickups sold, GM/Ford/Ram are each going to p!ss off a small crowd of 1/2 ton pickups buyers, no matter how good or great the trucks are.

            If they’re not (p!ssing off a few), they’re wasting resources. It’s the law of averages.

            Others I’m sure just assume a Toyota or Nissan pickup is automatically better than anything “Detroit”, and haven’t owned anything but “import” brands since the Nixon Admin, while still others want to drive something “different” to express their individuality.

            Either way, it’s a decent opportunity, at least for Toyota, especially for buyers that aren’t looking for a specialized set of options or specific package, trim, engine, etc, combinations.

            Retirees for example, maybe hair dressers, first-time pickup buyers and whatnot.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            DenverMike, I’m always surprised at the number of 1/2-ton pickup truck buyers I see who chose a Tundra in the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave.

            Surprising, because in America there was once only the Big/Detroit Three trucks.

            Because I switched over to Toyota Tundra and Sequoia I recognize them more readily when on the road. And it seems almost like a cult, Tundra drivers waving at each other.

            I once made the mistake of waving at an F150 driver at the Pilot gas stop in Eloy, AZ. He flipped me the bird. I guess he didn’t like my 2016 Tundra TRD.

            So every sale of a Tundra or Titan is one less for Ford, RAM or GM, regardless who buys them.

            And you are right, several retirees I know drive a Tundra as their second, third or fourth vehicle. And my wife’s hairdresser actually has a Tundra that is her husband’s DD.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @highdesertcat – I was talking to an acquaintance. Her husband will only buy Ram 3500’s because he has to have a manual transmission. She says each new Ram has been a bigger pile of crap than the one it replaced. Some people will not learn.
            I know a guy who had 2 crappy Ram trucks in a row and then bought a Tundra. He sold it because he needed a HD. He has been reasonably happy with Chevy’s.
            My brother has all sorts of fleet trucks. Ram was the most hit and miss as far as reliability problems. He’d have one that was a giant steaming pile then the next one would be ok. The Chevy’s he’s had held up okay and so did his Ford’s.
            I’ve only known 3 guys with Tundra’s. The guy who replaced a Ram with it. He said it was very reliable. The other 2 guys I know both had to get water pumps replaced and one had a CDI die. They haven’t been any better than my F150.

          • 0 avatar

            Truck buyers are brand loyal I know a number of people be burned by 5.4 and 6.7 Ford’s they all still drive Ford’s. Even they guy who had his 5.4 replaced at 35k miles went out and bought another one.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Yeah, brand loyalty. It’s illogical but I am now probably guilty of brand loyalty as well, once I accepted Toyota as the true Messiah of the automotive universe.

            I didn’t convert to Toyota until July 2008, but I only strayed once since then and that was when my wife saw that 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee in PHX as we barreled eastbound on I-10. Bought it for her right then and there!

            Since then, it’s been Tundra, Sequoia, Tundra. And while a Rivian RT1 may be in my future for local running around El Paso, TX, I have no doubt that when we settle down again, we’ll buy another Toyota or two.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            Brand loyalty is interesting and manufacturers say it is much cheaper to keep a customer than attract a new one. I’m not brand loyal but over the years I’ve ended up with Ford pickups. That is due to a range of factors like best price, best options, durability ratings etc. I’m open to any brand when I need to replace mine.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            I was never brand-loyal either but I have had such great ownership experiences with Toyota products since July 2008 that I find myself strangely attracted to Toyota vehicles when I shop.

            And they’re not even paying me to write this!

      • 0 avatar
        CKNSLS Sierra SLT

        highdesertcat-

        Sorry calling BS here on the Tundra “value”. I have never-EVER seen Tundras advertised for $15,000.00 off sticker. I bought a 2018 Silverado LTZ for $14,000.00 off sticker.

        And I traded in another truck-and I can tell you trade in values are crazy high on these as well-so don’t pull the resale card please.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          CKNSLS Sierra SLT, neither have I ever seen Tundra trucks for $15,000.00 off sticker.

          But you get what you pay for.

          From my personal experience having owned 1/2-ton Silverado, F150 and a RAM 2500 Cummins, I’ll never go back to those.

          I’ve owned both a 2011 and 2016 Tundra, and a 2016 Sequoia, and hope to do so again once we settle down from traveling. I prefer them over anything else out there.

          If Tundra decides to downsize to a 4.6L V8 when I’m ready to buy again, then I’ll have to reconsider.

          I’m considering a Rivian RT1 in the future for running around the El Paso, TX, area, but for long distance 13-hrs-at-a-whack-with-only-fuel-stops driving I may have to step up to a 3/4-ton F250 or RAM 2500 4-door with the biggest gas engine available.

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            HighDesertCat, I’ve learned in business, you’ll drive yourself crazy thinking you can please everyone, 100% of the time.

            Toyota must be pleased with their (relatively) small “fullsize” footprint/share. Why spend a billion chasing 2 billion? Or deal with fleets and other cheapskate, rebate madness?

            It’s hard to tell what Nissan was thinking. Except everything they touch seems to fail.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            I think Nissan just wanted “a piece of the action” with their Titan entry. And they succeeded in getting a small, but growing share.

            I have noticed that Titan also puts huge discounts on the hood, and that, coupled with the fact that it is Made in America by Americans for Americans is a huge motivator for flag-waving blue-collar workers.

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            No one really cares where stuff is made. Or where their dollars go.

            “Imported Parts” content could mean Mexico or Canada, but where it should concern is parts from China.

            Automakers don’t get too specific but I think we’re about to fined out…

    • 0 avatar
      Zoomers_StandingOnGenius_Shoulders

      That’s a joke, and you’re a joke. They cleaned up and toned down the styling to the point where its on par with a Ram. And theres NO WAY anyone is outdoing the GM twins for sheer ugliness. Get your eyes checked bud.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @Zoomers_StandingOnGenius_Shoulders – EBFlex loves to hate on Ford. FCA could copy the Aztec and he’d rave on the design. Ford comes out with a good looking product and he’d say it was ugly.

  • avatar
    Vulpine

    Grille is definitely an improvement. The headlamps, however…

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    Except for the new Ram most of the full size pickups are ugly. There is only so much that can be done to make a big box or brick attractive.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      Beauty is in the eye of the beholder…….

      What is butt-ugly to some is franken-handsome to others.

      I’ll take franken-handsome over butt-ugly any time. My guess is that with pickup trucks being the best-selling vehicles, most truck buyers feel the same way.

      When it comes to trucks, beauty is as beauty does, and handsome is what it is.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    My point is there are not many ways you can make a vehicle shaped like a brick a thing of beauty. True beauty is in the eye of the beholder but many buyers have been put off by the restyled 2019 Silverado and as many have pointed out even the top models have aging and cheapened interiors. The new Rams have managed to improve their interiors and have a less polarizing design. The heavy duty Silverados are more reminiscent of the Griswolds family truckster in National Lampoon’s Summer Vacation. That might be an insult to the Griswold’s truckster.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      Jeff S, your point is well taken yet people keep making pickup trucks and SUVs the best-selling vehicles in the USA, even displacing sedans as DDs and commuters.

      I live in El Paso, TX, now and have a binocular view of I-10 to the West of me. It truly is stunning how many pickup trucks thunder up and down I-10 every single minute of every hour of every day of every week of every month of every year, 24/7.

      Granted, many do have Mexican License Plates. Nevertheless, counting only the TX plates, it would still be a staggering number.

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      “My point is there are not many ways you can make a vehicle shaped like a brick a thing of beauty.”

      68 Continental?

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    Yes agree pickups are selling well and will continue to sell well for the near future. There are lots of pickups where I live as well especially in suburbia. I am now down to 1 pickup my 2008 Isuzu I-370.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      Jeff S, your comment made me realize how much I miss not having a truck of my own these days. But that is the lot of a traveling Nomad (the Traveler, not the Stationwagon).

      We tried having two cars parked in the desert when we were out of the country for weeks or months at a time and that just didn’t make sense to have all that money tied up in two vehicles (>$100K) that were depreciating by the day.

      So now we beg, borrow or rent, and that works for us.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    @highdesertcat–Pickups do come in handy when you need to pickup an item too big for a conventional car or crossover. My nephew who is retired from the Coast Guard built a large barn with a concrete floor and a lift. He has my old S-10 which still looks new and runs like new which he keeps in his new barn along with his 2014 1 ton Cummings Ram dually crewcab and his wife’s 2009 Accord which looks and runs like new. Recently he found my Grandfather’s 63 IH 1000 step side which he got started but it needs more work along with body work. His wife wants my Isuzu which I promised her once I retire and no longer have a house. My wife and I will probably move to Arizona when I retire. My nephew is a licensed mechanic and has offered to do the maintenance on all my vehicles which I will take him up on. He and his wife have gone to South Carolina to visit their 2 daughters who are married to servicemen and have children. They tow a large trailer with their Ram and park it at an RV park.

    Art Vandelay a 68 Lincoln Continental was hardly a brick and the 61 thru 69 Lincoln Continentals are among the most beautifully styled cars ever. The only Lincoln I would consider more beautiful would be the 56-57 Lincoln Continental Mark II. Even the Lincoln Marks of the time are still beautiful cars.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      Absolutely Pickups do come in handy when you need to pickup an item too big for a conventional car or crossover.

      Just today I needed a pickup truck to haul a new 30cf fridge home from Conn’s to install in my daughter’s garage.

      Fortunately my retired-Army neighbor was available to haul and to help unload that monstrosity from his pickup truck. Nice guy. He even offered to help me with future projects that required the use of his pickup truck and strong back. He knows we travel a lot. But I have been known to rent a truck from Home Depot or U-Haul when I needed one real bad. I mean $19.95/day? Ya can’t beat that! And my USAA auto insurance covers it all.

      If you’re planning to move to Arizona after you retire, there are several locations that my wife and I really like. Our grand daughter lives in Surprise, AZ near Phoenix because both of them work at Luke AFB. Nice place! Clean. Well kept.

      One of my brothers lives in Scottsdale, AZ, on the Northeast side of Phoenix, near the Mayo Clinic and Westworld (Barrett auctions). Plenty of housing at less than East Coast pricing and lots of EV charging stations everywhere, including gas stations.

      But my wife and I are especially fond of Sedona, AZ, a couple of hours North of Phoenix, to visit but would buy in Cottonwood if we were to live there most of the time. Better pricing in Cottonwood, more open space, fewer people to trip over. And they have a Walmart Supercenter!

      Arizona and Texas are both destinations for those fleeing the high-tax states during the great economic times of the Trump administration and regrettably that influx is reflected in prices everywhere, from local restaurants to gas stations with amenities to strip malls, and even the Arizona Mills Mall in Tempe.

      We love dining at Claim Jumpers in Tempe when we are there, but $70+tax and tip for Prime Rib on Fri/Sat nights is more than double what we used to pay there just three years ago, BT (before Trump).

      Funny how great economic times will drive mass migration within our nation.

  • avatar
    cprescott

    Based on what I have seen, the interior is getting most of the attention which means that it will counter some of the Ram’s good points. The recent RAM update was essentially only sheetmetal from the a-pillar forward with some bolt on differences for braces underneath. They did step up the interior but that will be offset with Ford’s new efforts.

    what is shocking is how third rate GM continues to be on their trucks. They can spend money on a new tailgate for the professional grade Chevrolet, but really, they didn’t even bother with anything on the inside.

    Right now in full-sized trucks there is only Ford and Ram – everyone else has a thumb up their….

  • avatar
    danio3834

    “The recent RAM update was essentially only sheetmetal from the a-pillar forward with some bolt on differences for braces underneath.”

    The new Ram 1500 (not the Classic, the new DT) was/is all new aside from one of the 4 power-trains that carried over from the DS. New cab (4″ longer) new frame, new axles, new sheetmetal, new suspension, new brakes, new everything.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    highdesertcat–Thank you for the suggestions I want to check those out. I plan on retiring at the end of December 2021. Starting to get rid of some of my things now because I don’t want to move them.

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