By on August 11, 2018

2017 Honda Civic Si Sedan - Image: Honda

Ford’s already brought the axe down on all but one of its car models, and General Motors looks ready to do the same. Other automakers, however, know that ditching sedans would mean abandoning key groups of customers.

For Toyota and Honda, models like the Camry and Civic resonate far more among some demographics, and leaving that segment risks losing those buyers to other brands. Not everyone wants a crossover. Among Asians, Hispanics, and African-Americans, four Japanese nameplates keep popping up at the top of the most-bought list, but one domestic model poses a growing threat.

You’ve probably already guessed the identity of that domestic model. It is, after all, the world’s best-selling vehicle: the Ford F-150.

In a study of who buys what, IHS Markit (via Automotive News) mapped out the market share of individual models among different demographics, revealing just how important the sedan is to Toyota and Honda.

Industrywide, the F-150, Chevrolet Silverado, and Ram 1500 topped U.S. new vehicle sales through the end of April, with the Toyota RAV4 and Honda Civic in fourth and fifth place. Together, those five nameplates make up 15.2 percent of all sales. Break it down into identity groups, however, and the trucks (mainly) take a hike.

2018 Toyota Camry SE white - Image: Toyota

Among women, the RAV4 and Honda CR-V take the top two spots, followed by the Civic, Camry, and Chevrolet Equinox. Asian buyers? The top two spots stay the same, and the Camry and Civic change places in the order of things. The Honda Accord muscles into fifth place.

It’s a sensible, dependable, small car bonanza among Hispanic buyers, though the top five isn’t without its cargo carriers. Within this demographic, the Civic, Camry, and Corolla take gold, silver, and bronze. In fourth place is the RAV4, followed by the Silverado.

You’ll find the Camry sitting pretty at the top of African-American buyers’ shopping lists, but the F-150 occupies second place. The seemingly can-do-no-wrong pickup is gaining ground in this demographic, IHS Markit claims, threatening the dominance of Toyota’s midsizer. In third place among African-Americans is the Accord, followed by the Civic and Nissan Sentra.

Image: Honda

Depending on the demographic, certain cities make up the bulk of a model’s sales. Nissan picks up 30 percent of its Hispanic Sentra sales in Los Angeles. Places like Atlanta and Chicago are crucial for the selling of sedans to African-American customers. We’ve touched on this before — Ford has difficulty selling to Hispanics, and Southerners in general seem wary of Subaru, so much so that it’s top of mind in the brand’s new global product strategy.

Without this kind of brand loyalty on their side, automakers like Ford feel it’s okay to erase the board and try again at the lower end of the market. That just leaves OEMs like Toyota and Honda with the opportunity to snap up buyers abandoned by their brand — in the short-term, anyway.

Speaking to Automotive News, Marc Bland, IHS Markit’s vice president of diversity and inclusion, said cars “still have a real place” in the market.

“The brands that are offering the most choice, I think, are going to win in the long run because of this freedom of choice,” he said.

[Image: Honda, Toyota]

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75 Comments on “Toyota and Honda Have Good Reason Not to Abandon Sedans...”


  • avatar

    “GM is committed to cars”.
    -Bara July 2018

    Don’t make excuses for the poor and short sighted leadership at Ford. Musk is right they are indeed brain dead. If Ford can’t compete in cars don’t blame Toyota, Honda, and GM.

    • 0 avatar
      JohnTaurus

      What an insightful analysis, since Ford cars are the *only* ones on a downward slide. Right? Right.

      What a disgrace.

      GM was also committed to Pontiac, Hummer, Saturn, Saab, and the minivan. How’s that working for them?

      • 0 avatar

        At least GM has a future in cars. If the Ecosport is typical of future Fords then things are pretty bleak. Ford is now the runt of the US auto industry.

        “Ford has become a morgue”
        – Elon Musk April 2018

      • 0 avatar
        bd2

        That’s another thing entirely – GM simply had too many brands.

        Ford had a lot fewer brands (putting aside selling off JLR, Aston, etc.) and still got rid of Mercury.

        • 0 avatar
          raph

          Mercury was a dead brand with no real purpose or identity. They had a few cool cars every now and again otherwise they were just filler for folks trying to relive their malaise era glory years in 90’s fashion.

          Maybe Mercury could have been neat by say taking some interesting platforms from outside the US and badging them under the Mercury nameplate but Ford just let them wither on the vine as redundant models.

          Linclon isnt far behind in that respect since Ford seems to try and put lipstick on a pig rather than say adopt GM’s strategy where they let Cadillac do the heavy lifting on platform engineering where customers can afford to pay for it and as it pays for itself move downsteam to other brands (well at least with alpha)

          Instead Ford seems to go from the bottom up and then tries to bean counter engineer a platform with Lincoln badges and calls it a day.

    • 0 avatar
      Carroll Prescott

      Ford has never blamed the Duh sisters for pulling out of the car segment. They firmly believe in going with the trend and who can’t blame them – of course I refuse to buy anything but a car and refuse the fake cars that are high wagons. Do I believe this move is short-sighted? Yes, but hey, they are also doing these as hybrids as well with electric vehicles joining the lineup.

  • avatar
    jimmyy

    In trendy Los Angeles and Orange County zip codes, I am seeing many new sedans on the road … a lot more. To me, it looks like the SUV craze is topping out and beginning to reverse.

  • avatar
    sportyaccordy

    I am an African American with a new interest in mainstream sedans, but I don’t think I’m representative of any norm. I was forced into one when I totalled my modified daily driver at a track day and learned to like them way after the fact. I learned a lot from that incident but the biggie in this context is that I don’t need a wide tire’d stiff suspended car to be happy on my commute….

    I don’t think it’s unreasonable for other manufacturers to be weary of the segment though. I’m in a constant state of window shopping… it’s not unreasonable to see a 5 figure discount on a $3x,xxx sedan from a 2nd or 3rd tier manufacturer. Honda/Toyota have the resale and margin to offer competitive monthly costs whereas someone like Kia or Ford gets there at the expense of any semblance of profit. So it’s very have vs have not.

    • 0 avatar
      chrishs2000

      It’s not unreasonable at all to see a $5,000 discount on a sedan from Honda, Toyota or GM. The sedan absolutely murders SUV’s in the value equation right now.

      • 0 avatar
        TwoBelugas

        considering the poor resale value of Camry’s and Accords even with cash on the hood, I honestly don’t see how anyone can buy them and look down on say Hyundais or Fords.

        • 0 avatar
          stuki

          If you can’t get out of them, you want to minimize the chance of them giving you trouble.

        • 0 avatar
          chrishs2000

          Define poor resale value? Considering operating costs, lower purchase price and insurance, the CamCord are still far better values than SUV’s regardless of how hot their market is right now.

          For example it’s not unusual to be able to get out of a CamCord lease early and have it be a wash or slightly profit. My gf is $5k upside down on her Silverado 30 months in (a vehicle with a “higher residual”), and she got a killer deal when she signed the lease. I question the published residual values, as they do not vary by trim, consider purchase price (only MSRP), and do not seem to come close to matching actual transaction values at least in my area. The alleged resale of a Silverado is something like 60% after 3yrs, in her case it will be about 45% compared to MSRP.

          https://www.autoremarketing.com/retail/kbb-names-2018-honda-accord-americas-best-buy

    • 0 avatar
      bd2

      Wouldn’t exactly stick Toyota w/ Honda.

      Toyota has been subsidizing car/sedan sales w/ part of the profits it makes from selling CUVs/SUVs/pickups.

      And as Accord sales have shown, even Honda nowadays can’t get away w/ not offering somewhat competitive leases/pricing.

  • avatar
    Superdessucke

    I see Ford and GM’s plan blowing up right in their faces in about 5 years. I only hope that we have an Administration that won’t bail them out. But even if they get bailed out, they’re going to have to overcome the loyalty that compact and sedan customers will have developed with Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, and other makes which still offer these types of vehicles. It’ll take a lot of taxpayer money to fix this.

    • 0 avatar
      TwoBelugas

      The base trim Trax is selling for between 17k and 18k in my area. The Sonic is maybe a grand or two less than that. What beginner buyer is so committed to cars that they will forgo a Trax to get in a Sonic that has less legroom, less cargo space, harder to get into, etc?

    • 0 avatar
      sportyaccordy

      You wanting them to fail for not doing things your way is not a legitimate reason for them to fail. The level of entitlement displayed by auto enthusiasts never ceases to amaze. Selling $30K cars at a five figure discount is bad business.

      • 0 avatar
        Superdessucke

        My wants have nothing to do with my prediction. Do I want them to fail? Well I’m not happy about the products they’re building because I think they’re mostly s*** but they also keep people in this country employed, And that overrides that.

        So no, I actually do not want them to fail. That being said, I think this is a really short-sighted move. So I also don’t want to pay the cost to rectify this decision down the road.

        • 0 avatar
          DenverMike

          “…I see Ford and GM’s plan blowing up in…”

          Do you have any idea of the fortunes Ford could amass in 5 years of straight profitable pickups, SUVs, and Mustangs, especially with no sedans or other losers?

          Did I mention F-series? Ford could be in a position to buyout Toyota and then Tesla just for kicks.

          • 0 avatar

            Right now Ford is last place among the big three. Their stock is at a near all-time low. They are getting out of the car business because they can’t compete.

        • 0 avatar
          Peter Gazis

          Superdessucke

          New Regal out this year
          New Cadillac CT5 due out next year
          Refreshed Chevy Cruze just entered production this week.
          Chevy Bolt production recently increased
          Mid-engine Corvette due out late next year.

          GM IS STILL INVESTING HEAVILY IN THEIR CARS.
          Seems like an author has got his head stuck up his @$$

          • 0 avatar
            Superdessucke

            @Peter – hopefully the intent is to stick with that course and that isn’t reflective of decisions made a long time ago and the cars don’t end up getting axed almost immediately ala Chrysler 200. We’ll see I guess.

            @Denver- Sure they’re making a fortune on those vehicles now (which should speak volumes about the value proposition they offer consumers) but that money isn’t going to last long if there is a huge down turn in the light truck segment due to high gas prices or changing consumer tastes.

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            It sounds risky, but really, how hard would it be to slightly realign? Would Ford have to shut down and start over from scratch? The drama queens around here would have you believing so.

          • 0 avatar
            sportyaccordy

            Regal, CT5 and Cruze will fail. Current Cruze is selling for as much as $8K off down here, with a starting price as low as $21K. GM invested tons into the Alpha platform cars and they’re all floundering. If consumers don’t want your cars it doesn’t matter how much you invest in them, and that’s where GM is.

          • 0 avatar
            DeadWeight

            CT5 will be as successful as the outgoing CTS 3rd Gen, i.s. FAIL.

            New Cruze is HUMONGOUS PILE OF SH*T (it’s as if Guangzhou-Guagalajara Motors makes each successive generation worse in all ways than the last intentionally).

            Chevy Bolt is lot fodder.

            No one wants a mid-engine Vette that has no signifcant performance advantage (if any, plus being way more expensive to buy and maintain and repair) than the current C7).

            Guangzhou-Guadalajara Motors (GM) is on path to FAIL GREATLY again, with complete GM LIFERS/LOSERS such as Barra, Reuss, Ammann, Carlisle at the helm.

            SSDD since the 1980s at the rolling dumpster fire that is GM.

            Have Shanghai Automotive absorb it and be done with.

            GM is America’s British Leyland Motor Corporation Ltd (BLMC), and GM is partially nationalized even as BLMC was.

            ROLLING DUMPSTER FIRE!

          • 0 avatar
            Peter Gazis

            DeadWeight/Sportyaccordy

            So many predictions of GM failing, but their U.S. sales were up 4.2%(60,000 vehicles) in the first half of the year. Maybe they didn’t get the memo.

        • 0 avatar
          danio3834

          The fact is that with regulatroy pressure and market demand being what it is, small/mid cars (sedans to be specific) don’t trade at high enough prices to make a profit.

          How is abandoning money losing product shortsighted? Do you have some insight that these multi-billion dollar companies don’t have with all their resources that suggests that:

          1. Market demands will suddenly shift back to sedans

          AND

          2. The regulatory regime and overall cost structure will substantially change in the future with some permanence to allow them to be profitable again?

          If so, these companies would love to know about it.

    • 0 avatar
      bd2

      SUV/CUV sales have fallen in China during the past few months (and car/sedan sales have seen a rise).

      Probably has to do w/ tighter emissions controls and/or rise in the cost of fuel, but would be something to look at if it becomes a longer term trend.

      On another front, Ford recently announced a new China-only CUV.

    • 0 avatar
      raph

      Maybe they let Ford go the way of Chrysler but I don’t see GM ever “failing”. Too many people with deep pockets would take a financial beating over that outside of just GM as they cause a severe collapse in the industry as a whole (suppliers and such).

      If your wishing to see domestic auto manufacturing fail (which would ultimately be a bad thing since they tend to be among the most prolific patent producers in the country and provide some manner of decent paying jobs) it would be better for them to fade away into irrelevance rahter than implode spectacularly.

  • avatar
    Johnster

    I’m a bit surprised that Ford cars haven’t been big sellers in “flyover country.” I guess even the people who live there prefer Toyotas and Hondas to get their sedan fix.

    • 0 avatar
      1998redwagon

      In flyover country trucks are king, queen and jester. Some of the local Ford dealers cannot control what inventory they receive every two weeks. Guess what they get to sell? F-150s baby!

      • 0 avatar
        gearhead77

        Yep, drive past any rural dealer of any brand, but especially domestics and the front line is crossovers and trucks. And maybe Mustang, Camaro, Charger/Challenger.

    • 0 avatar
      Luke42

      “I guess even the people who live there prefer Toyotas and Hondas to get their sedan fix.”

      Guilty.

      The Honda Civic was the best car under $45000 for our needs, hands down. And it was $20k.

      Honda breaking ranks with the other carmakers and including Honda Sensing for a reasonable price was decisive — we needed sn efficient and reliable highway car with adaptive cruise control for my wife’s long commute. The runner-up was a $40k+ Prius with the same features.

      We looked at some other brands, but Ford and GM we’re not in the running.

      The only problem is that we really like adaptive cruise now, and probably won’t buy a car without it. That means Honda has a huge price advantage over everyone else, at least with the features we demand — assuming we ever buy a gas-powered car again (our next car purchase will be an EV).

  • avatar
    tankinbeans

    I’m one of those people who doesn’t need a truck and am not interested in a crossover. I’ve driven and owned a crossover, a 2014 Escape, and while it was decent enough and there weren’t overwhelming demerits it just didn’t do it for me.

    Ford have lost me as a buyer with the discontinuation of their sedan lineup and I showed up in their statistics as a new car buyer several times. I like the Mustang, but don’t think I’d be able to tolerate it as a daily driver if I’m being totally honest. I’ve never put money in General Motors’ hands even as I have owned several used examples of their products, and currently own an agéd Century with Buick style rocker-rot. FCA doesn’t really make anything that resonates with me even as I liked the feel of the 300S I had for awhile (could not stomach the fuel economy long term and there were niggling little issues).

    That leaves 3 manufacturers in my price range that I would consider, Honda and Mazda (Hyundai/Kia to a lesser extent, though my experience in a manual Forte gives me pause). I have owned Hondas and own a Mazda. I’ll likely stay with Mazda as long as they stick around and make products that I enjoy. Nothing Toyota makes is remotely interesting to me.

  • avatar
    ddr777

    I’m driving an Accord in NYC, the only reason I don’t drive an F-150 is the size, it would not fit in the garage I park in.

    • 0 avatar
      stuki

      That’s why the darned things are so popular in all the places where people do have the space…

    • 0 avatar
      tnk479

      It’s the same in DC/Maryland/Va. There are lots of underground parking garages that are just barely navigable in a full size trucks.

      • 0 avatar
        gearhead77

        This. I had a Ram as a rental for a week in Ohio. Even in Cincinnati area, I just didn’t like dealing with the bulkiness of the vehicle, I can’t imagine it in the city or places where parking is at a premium. It was nice enough otherwise, V6/2wd crew cab SXT, so around 35k. You can buy a really nice sedan for that money that is more usable daily and rent a truck if you need it though.

  • avatar
    Peter Gazis

    Toyota just brought the Axe down on Scion, and it looks like Honda is about to do the same with Acura.

    Ford just brought the Axe down on all but 1 of its models, and it looks like Lexus is about to do the same

    Tesla just brought the Axe down on Prius, and it looks like Ford is about to do the same on Tacoma.

    Fun game.

  • avatar

    What about the Corolla and Accord? I drive an 2018 Corolla. The Honda Accord, Civic & Toyota Camry, Corolla are the top 4 selling sedans in America. They are built well, reliable and hold their value. The Ford Fusion sedan is # 7 on the list.

  • avatar
    1998redwagon

    In flyover country trucks are king, queen and jester. Some of the local Ford dealers cannot control what inventory they receive every two weeks. Guess what they get to sell? F-150s baby!

  • avatar
    vehic1

    TwoBelugas: At the entry-level, there is considerable cost sensitivity, as would be expected where money is precious. If they don’t desperately need the room of a Trax, they may opt to save the 1 – 2 grand, and get the better fuel economy with the car.

  • avatar
    DenverMike

    “Toyota and Honda Have Good Reason Not to Abandon Sedans”

    “I’ll take ‘NO SH!T SHERLOCK’ for 200, Alex”

  • avatar
    Christopher Coulter

    “Southerners in general seem wary of Subaru”

    Having spent a considerable amount of time living in the South, this is not that hard to explain. The generally favorable climate really puts a dent in the perceived benefit of AWD, and anywhere that’s not paved or graded is usually SO poorly maintained that nothing but a Jeep or a BoF truck can get through. Exceptions exist and I was one of the few people in my town (hell, in the STATE) to own an Outback.

    So that’s the practical explanation and it holds for vast areas of the South. But in the cities and towns, the cultural explanation is that trucks are cool and all real men drive trucks and the only women worth a damn want a man who drives a truck. It’s kind of dumb, but there it is…

    • 0 avatar
      raph

      That’s probably it in a nut shell. Like extolling the virtues of Subaru’s AWD vehicles you’ll get the same blank stare when people talk about having dedicated snow and summer tires while eschewing no-seasons.

      Even as far “north” as south eastern VA a person can drive nearly year round on summer tires with only a few days a year where the weather might impact that.

      If Subaru wants to make a dent in the south they need something useful to a southerner like the industry’s best HVAC system where the car is completely cooled to a comfortable temperature in a few seconds after start up even on blazing hot days and humidity so thick you need scuba gear in order to leave the house.

  • avatar
    Peter Gazis

    @Inside looking Out
    Vehicle sales thru July
    Acura ILX 6,400
    Acura TLX 18,936 down 12.2%
    Acura RLX 1,070
    Acura NSX 96
    Acura RDX 33,106 up 7.5%
    Acura MDX 26,292 down 7.0%
    Lexus IS 13,364 down 9.5%
    Lexus RC 2,008
    Lexus ES 24,452 down 14%
    Lexus GS 4,158
    Lexus LS 5,081
    Lexus LC 1,182
    Prius C 5,317
    Prius Sedan 29,971 down 24%
    Prius Prime 16,239 up 42%

    It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out a number of these models are about to be axed. A few more are on the fence, but falling sales numbers guarantee they will soon be on the chopping block.

  • avatar
    gearhead77

    It’s looking like 1998 at Ford all over again. Drop the cars because we haven’t done much to keep them competitive, only build trucks and crossovers. Then gas goes up and we have no cars to sell. I just don’t see eliminating sedans being a good idea, but their sedans don’t sell without big money off, so what do I know?

  • avatar
    stingray65

    The only financial reason to keep unprofitable cars in the line-up is to help amortize the development costs of the platform they share with profitable CUVs. The interesting question is whether dropping the cars will decrease the profits on CUVs that would then have to carry the entire development costs, but I assume Ford plans to just do even more platform sharing between CUVs to eliminate this problem.

    • 0 avatar
      DenverMike

      Cars based on those CUVs could easily be kept in concept, test-mule or pre production form, just in case fuel prices skyrocket. And that may not happen overnight if fuel prices do just that.

      Sedans aren’t rocket science and they may not be the answer to high fuel prices anyway.

      And who’s guaranteeing high fuel prices wouldn’t be a temporary thing?

    • 0 avatar
      fIEtser

      If Ford isn’t working on an electric CUV, they’re going to get clobbered in that space too.

    • 0 avatar
      MBella

      The problem with keeping the cars ready just in case is the young buyer. They may not be able to afford your fancy profitable crossover today, but they will in the future. If Toyota and Honda get those customers into Corrolas and Civics at an early age, they will be the back buying the Highlanders and Pilots. This is very negative in the long run for Ford. You need those buyers as soon as they can get approved for a car loan to keep them in your brand. It’s going to be way more costly to get customers to defect at a later age.

      • 0 avatar
        DenverMike

        Maybe it works for Toyota or Honda, maybe Nissan, but there’s no real evidence 1st time buyers entering the market with a new Fiesta will step up to an Expedition eventually, or some similar fantasy. This isn’t 1957, there’s no loyalty, there’s 50 so odd brands and everyone cherry picks. What if they want Nuclear Green Metallic and only Dodge offers it? Bye bye Ford.

        It’s the same with the “Halo Car” backwoods thinking.. “Yep they’ll come in just to drool over the Corvette and leave in a spankin’ new Sonic before they know what happened to them!!!”

  • avatar
    geozinger

    Toyota and Honda in the USDM *must* keep their cars in the lineup, they have no other choice. Neither one (esp. Honda) could scale up production of their SUVs and pickups to get to the level of demand. Additionally, Honda has no BOF pickup truck, the Fridgeline doesn’t count and the Tundra is a thirsty tank.

    Having said this, I too dislike Ford’s (and FCA’s) abandonment of the car market. I think it’s short sighted and will only push up development costs. From what I read we may not have to worry about $5/gallon gasoline anytime soon, so I can’t imagine a wholesale rush back to small cars for fuel economy reasons. Additionally, we’ve noted repeatedly that small CUVs get fuel mileage close to small cars, with little downside.

    I’m not positive about Hackett’s leadership of Ford; I live in Grand Rapids, Michigan, the home of Steelcase furniture. His tenure here is not well loved, far from it, actually. Hopefully, Mike Manley can find a way to bring some cars back to the FCA lineup, beyond the Chally/Charger/300. I’m also hoping that when GM whittles down their line up that a couple of the sedans will survive.

  • avatar
    Peter Gazis

    BTW
    While I have Hondas sales chart open. Last month
    Accord sales fell 19.3%.
    Civic sales fell 28.3%
    Clicking over to Toyota
    Camry down 22.2%
    Corolla down 5.6%

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    After owning cars for years and switching to a CUV I doubt I will ever go back to a car. Easier to get in and out of a CUV, more headroom, more cargo space especially when the back seat is folded down, and not that much of a fuel penalty. If I wanted a midsize, compact, or subcompact sedan there is GM, Honda, Toyota, Mazda,Hyundai, and Kia which I could easily live with any of them. I don’t fault Ford for getting away from cars and if the market changed Ford still makes competitive cars in Europe and Asia that could be brought to the US. I have owned 3 Ford cars in the past and have generally been satisfied but I can live without them. There are many competent manufacturers out there. I don’t believe in Government bailouts and I don’t believe the voters will support another auto bailout. Hopefully the Big 2 1/2 wouldn’t need another bailout.

  • avatar
    fIEtser

    Honda and Toyota should be more concerned about the sedan buyers abandoning them if they don’t get their act together on some real electric cars. The Model 3 is outselling the Prius by a wide margin and absolutely clobbering the luxury brands from those two and production is still ramping up. I can absolutely see it knocking on the door of the Accord/Camry/Civic/Corolla sales by the end of the year, especially when considering the demographic that could afford a more expensive car, but buys one of those vehicles to be the thrifty daily and perhaps has an Acura/Lexus for the weekend. Of course, it will be hard to tease out the people who have defected to a CUV instead out of the gush of red ink in the sedan segment, but considering the fact that Tesla is also working on a CUV, they would be absolutely foolish to think CUV sales will save them.

  • avatar
    Eliyahu

    You must be inhaling Tesla fumes. As of June, the Prius family outsold the 3 and the S combined. And you can actually buy a Prius TODAY! If Toyota had not gone with the toy car styling, they would be selling even more.

  • avatar
    Zackman

    I’m sorry, but a Toyota Camry, Corolla, RAV4, Honda Accord, Civic and CR-V are the cars I least want to own, although Wifey has a 2015 CR-V. These are not the cars I want to drive.

    The only new car that “speaks” to me is the Chevy Malibu. I’m an Impala guy, but as nice as the current (last?) Impala is, it is just too decked out for my taste. The Impala has gone into Buick territory, and I’m more modest than that in my vehicle taste.

    Also, I am not a Ford guy, so the F-150 would be off my list. Silverado would be it, and I would never consider an FCA product on any level.

    Sorry demographic guys – I won’t be market-bullied into accepting what most people seem to be buying – I’ll choose for myself, regardless of the consequences, thank you very much.

    For now, my 2012 Impala does everything I need it to do, and until something breaks that is too costly to fix, I am keeping it and still loving it.

  • avatar
    WallMeerkat

    Couple of things.

    Firstly, there is actually a precedent for Ford’s decision.
    Nissan in western Europe back in the early 2000s, axed their sedan/hatchbacks Primera and Almera, keeping only Micra. They then replaced them with CUVs Juke and Qashqai(Rogue Sport). It worked out well for them, and arguably kickstarted the European demand for CUVs.

    Secondly, while demand for these things is high, it is still a fashion, and like wagons, personal coupes and minivans, these things rise, peak and fall. However the next big thing may not be sedans. It may be monobox EVs. It may be tall fastbacks. Who knows?

    Thirdly, if Ford desperately needs their car range back, they can grab them from elsewhere. Ford Europe have no plans whatsoever to axe the Fiesta (UK best seller) and Focus, though the Mondeo looks questionable. The Mondeo/Fusion was designed to be federalised, and they should be aware of the tasks needed to federalise the current generation Fiesta and Focus (indeed they may have been designed with potential future federalisation in mind…).

  • avatar
    tomLU86

    Interesting insight from Chris Coulter. It’s actually pretty logical!

    In America, circa 2018, I’m a little confused what people do to earn the money to buy these cars.

    We run a trade deficit, which means that while we make a lot of stuff, we consume a lot more than we make.

    Depending on how one interprets the stats, most new jobs don’t pay very well and offer few benefits (health-care).

    Our population of 310-330 million supports a market of 18 million cars now, vs say 15 million vehicles during 1973’s record (population then about 210 million). Some of that is because cars do last longer today. They also cost more today, as a percentage of average Inflation-adjusted TAKE-HOME pay; and people have more choices on how to spend their dough…dining out, travel, cellphone, cable TV

    I’m considered to have a good job–maybe I’m just too frugal, but it’s hard for me to spend $25k on a new car (I’m in my 50s, post-baby boom).

    We assume fuel will be cheap and plentiful forever, because…we are the USA. OK!!

    When it’s not, what will all these people (who don’t have a business) with all these trucks do?

    Domani…forget domain…let’s live for now, F150s and Tahoes!

  • avatar
    George B

    For Toyota and Honda, the Camry, Corolla, Accord, and Civic sedans are their core competency plus they make CUVs using some of the same platforms. Makes sense for Honda to develop the Civic and CR-V in parallel.

    I think Ford is making a mistake in ending production of the current Fusion and Focus cars. The Fusion is good enough to be competitive as is and the Focus only needs a better automatic transmission. They’re noticeably better than Ford cars from the past. They should be able to develop the Escape and Focus in parallel and sell both in many separate markets around the world.

  • avatar
    danio3834

    Honda and Toyota have no choice, they built and own this marketshare and can’t abandon it. They’d love to own in truck and SUV sales, but don’t have the brands to match the Detroit 3 in those segments. They spent decades investing in the core sedan markets which they now basically control, only to have profitability eroded. It will be interesting to see what they do with their cars, but you can bet that they will figure out every way possible to shift their car buyers into crossovers.


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