By on January 11, 2015

land-rover-diesel-01-1

Want a diesel in your Land Rover or Jaguar XE, yet live in the United States? Jaguar Land Rover has heard you loud and clear.

Land Rover is bringing over its Td6 3-liter turbodiesel V6 from Europe into the U.S. market this year, delivering 254 horsepower, 440 lb-ft of torque, and a combined 25 mpg to those who desire to burn oil in their Land Rover or Land Rover Sport. Diesel-powered versions of the SUVs will be on display at the 2015 Detroit Auto Show during press days.

Meanwhile, AutoGuide says JLR will install diesels in all future Land Rover and Jaguar models save one: The F-Type. The first Jaguar diesel will be the XE, whose mill a 2-liter four-pot the automaker is confident will deliver 40 mpg on the highway.

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45 Comments on “NAIAS 2015: Jaguar Land Rover Bringing Diesel Power To US Market...”


  • avatar
    kovakp

    Does anyone else have difficulty reconciling the world of smelly, clattery diesels with the concept of luxury?

    • 0 avatar
      Maxb49

      Plenty of people share your sentiment. Volkswagen tried to destroy Bentley (beyond the damage it already did) by confronting Bentley owners with the prospect of diesel Bentleys. So far, good sense prevailed.

      • 0 avatar

        What damage? Yes, the Continental GT and Flying Spur are Phaetons in drag, but these models don’t betray the brand values and they certainly didn’t make the brand’s clientele think any less of it. And don’t be surprised if a turbodiesel does show up in the new Bentley SUV…

    • 0 avatar
      FormerFF

      They’re not as smelly or clattery any more. Having said that, I’d not want a diesel powered light vehicle. Save it for the 10,000 lb and up crowd.

      You want a truly luxurious drive train, I’d suggest a plug in hybrid. Electric drivetrains are butter smooth.

    • 0 avatar
      Maymar

      Well, if anything should have enough sound insulation to be removed from the clatter, it should be a luxury car. And, it’s a good way to balance low-end torque for wafting, with a CAFE average that doesn’t have enough small cars to help out, and presumably not enough volume to pay the fines.

    • 0 avatar
      TurbineGuy

      @kovakp.. Have you been in a box for the last 7 or 8 years? The VW diesels I’ve owned since 2009 do not smell, or clatter or belch smoke.

      • 0 avatar
        kovakp

        “Have you been in a box for the last 7 or 8 years?”

        12 years, but it’s allowed my wife’s career to blossom :)

        And how could I know anything about VW diesels without test-driving one which would mean voluntary physical proximity with VW salesmen. Ew.

    • 0 avatar
      brettc

      Smelly, clattery diesels? Are you Jeremy Clarkson? Modern diesels can barely be discerned from their gas counterparts, except for the oodles of torque. Since we’re talking about Land Rover and luxury vehicles, I would imagine they’d be even quieter than a $25000 VW diesel.

      • 0 avatar
        Maxb49

        The difference between a diesel and spark ignition is readily apparent, noise or not. They aren’t as responsive to load changes as SI engines and unit for unit, they make less power.

  • avatar
    Ihatejalops

    Yep. Especially since if you can afford a 100K SUV you should be able to afford the gas. Although timing is not great considering oil prices and gas prices falling with diesel being much more.

  • avatar

    So looking at the numbers (below), I would think this will sell, torque has to go up a big bump, good for towing that multi horse trailer. Price will get a bump too, one wonders by how much.

    National average price of regular gasoline: $2.14 (premium $2.55)
    Range Rover 6 cyl 17/19 8cyl 13/15

    National average price of diesel: $3.01
    Range Rover estimated mpg 22/26

  • avatar
    Maxb49

    As a luxury car purchaser with a background in engineering, I can’t see this engine doing well. Luxury car buyers are looking for smooth power. Fuel economy, while important to some, is secondary.

    First, these diesel engines are real dogs, and with the price differential, don’t offer much in the way of “economy”. Torque is a wholly misunderstood concept; torque can be multiplied, torque can be reduced. Torque doesn’t not translate to acceleration. Any human being using a lever or (more likely) a gear set can make 1,000 ft.-lbs. of torque. Doesn’t mean that person is going to be able to accelerate a car. Torque only matters in the context of the engine speed at which it is produced, and that brings us back to horsepower. These cars are woefully underpowered in this market segment.

    Second – smoothness. Diesel engines produce a lot of vibration. Motor mounts, cylinder configuration, noise insulation are all steps that can be used to reduce vibration, but it’s always going to be there. The right cylinder configuration is key. Inline six engines, V12s, and counterweighted crossplane V8s are inherently balanced. V6 engines are terribly – inherently – unbalanced engines. They produce a lot of vibrations; this problem is amplified with the diesel cycle. Who is coming up with these terrible design ideas?

    • 0 avatar

      The acceleration will match the V6, but not the V8, but like I said I think this is your gentleman’s towing tool

    • 0 avatar
      Ihatejalops

      Tell that to Porsche.

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      @Maxb49,
      I actually test drove a Discovery with the 3 litre Lion diesel. A dog?? Boy, what an uneducated comment, have you ever driven one?

      I think not or you would not of made such a comment.

      I even drove the 2.7 Lion V6 Ford Territory as well, it also did quite well.

      Read this link and become educated. Take note of the acceleration times and FE. The Range Rovers FE is over 31mpg(US) that average FE not highway. It accelerates to 100kph in just over 7 seconds.

      How many vehicles that weigh over 5 300lbs can do that and return that kind of FE.

      http://www.caradvice.com.au/257683/range-rover-sport-review-2/

      • 0 avatar
        Maxb49

        I am plenty educated on European diesels, having owned them. And yes, I have driven diesel Land Rovers last year during my time spent overseas. They are nothing to write home about. Modern diesels are a technical nightmare and hard on your wallet, both in terms of initial cost and maintenance. Have you seen the prices on piezo injectors? It’s hard to justify the cost of a diesel, especially with the price differential between diesel and gasoline. You would literally need to drive hundreds of thousands of miles to break even. Please educate yourself.

        • 0 avatar
          Big Al from Oz

          @Maxb49,
          I find you owning what you described as highly improbable.

          1. You made the dumbass comment regarding the towing ability.

          2. Your comment regarding torque is good if you own a racing car, not a off roader.

          3. A background in engineering, what sanitary, judging by your comments.

          4. Piezo injector costs are high. But they last for a long time……………unless you drive like a rooster. So, what I can assume is you don’t know what the limitations are for a vehicle you operate. Great engineer you must be.

          I do think you are full of fecal matter. A troll.

          I’d say the closest you’ve been to a diesel is on a sidewalk when a diesel truck drove past.

        • 0 avatar
          Big Al from Oz

          @Maxb49,
          I find you owning what you descry!bed as highly improbable.

          1. You made the dumbass comment regarding the towing ability.

          2. Your comment regarding torque is good if you own a racing car, not a off roader.

          3. A background in engineering, what, sanitary, judging by your comments.

          4. Piezo injector costs are high. But they last for a long time……………unless you drive like a d!ck. So, what I can assume is you don’t know what the limitations are for a vehicle you operate. Great engineer you must be.

          I do think you are full of sh!t. A troll.

          I’d say the closest you’ve been to a diesel is on a s!dewalk when a diesel truck drove past.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            “I’d say the closest you’ve been to a diesel is on a s!dewalk when a diesel truck drove past.”

            That’s exactly the image we in the US have of diesels and yet you wonder why we don’t want them in our luxury vehicles? Now you know

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            @Lie2me,
            Another great example provided by you.

            Range Rover rednecks!

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            “Range Rover rednecks!”

            Then you’ve seen “Keeping up With the Kardashians”?

          • 0 avatar
            Chocolatedeath

            Big Al I am seeing alot of new names here this morning. Other than Lie2me and you I dont really recognize any of the others as long time contributes. Of course I am probably wrong on some of them and just not paying attention. but anyway…good morning and as I sit here drinking my cup of diesel I think if all the good years.
            But seriously the lux market in my mind is the perfect place for this engine. It absorbs the cost better. Thats why I have been screaming for a diesel/hybrid for about 6 years now. That would be the perfect engine for Lincoln to say “look at me’. Then again if done poorly it says “HEY LOOK AT ME”

          • 0 avatar
            Maxb49

            Big Al,

            There’s no need for personal attacks and name calling over consumer preference opinions. Do you have some sort of financial stake in the outcome here? :)

            I’m 74 years old. I’ve owned a lot of cars in my life, including diesel vehicles and trucks. I never said diesels were bad at towing. I said THIS particular diesel engine is unsuitable for heavy duty towing. There is a reason Ford, Cummins, and General Motors use a large block – durability and endurance. A towing engine has to be able to reliably cycle through head, changes in load dynamics, sustained acceleration, etc.,without being worn out. This is accomplished with a large block and heavy parts. If a 3.0l diesel were suited to this task, manufacturers would have adopted this design long ago because it uses less materials and is easier to manufacture.

            Get your facts straight: This is a passenger car diesel, not a towing engine.

    • 0 avatar
      wmba

      I’m a mech eng too. “Inherent” balancing of a crossplane V8 is possible with appropriate counterweights, but then you add combustion forces, and things go wazoo. So in practice none of them are really balanced.

      Compare a new Chev V8 to a new Honda V6. Theory is one thing, practice another. The Honda aces it.

      You seem surprised at all these “odd” engine configurations that have been around for decades. Where have you been hiding?

    • 0 avatar
      johnxyz

      Maxb49, Very interesting and insightful comments on diesels. I think some of the posters replying back to you may not have the engineering/technical background/knowledge that you seem to possess in this space.

      Btw what are some marques or car models that use a counterweight crossplane V8, as examples. Thanks

      • 0 avatar
        Maxb49

        Johnxyz:

        The crossplane V8 was co-developed in 1915 by engineers from Cadillac and Peerless. Virtually every V8 sold since then, with the exception of exotic V8’s from Ferrari, and now Ford (in the GT350 only) is a 90 degree crossplane design. All crossplane V8s are counterweighted which, simply, are little weights added to the crankshaft. The above poster was deliberately trying to obfuscate readers by pretending that little counterweight discs somehow added complexity to the engine. They don’t. They’re inert weight that is part of the crankshaft. What you get is a perfectly balanced engine. Combined with high flow cylinder heads, you have a pristine smooth work of art with a broad torque curve.

        Why does a broad torque curve matter to you? As I said, torque is meaningless without reference to engine speed. A broad torque curve means that most of the engine’s torque is availble throughout a wide spectrum of the RPM band, meaning more average power in any gear. Big diesels are correctly characterized as good towing engines for the wrong reasons. Diesel fuel has slightly more energy per unit than gasoline, but that doesn’t account for the torque differential. After all, injecting a little more gasoline is simple enough. Diesels are invariably turbocharged with high boost pressure that stays on throughout the entire operating RPM range. When you have 250-300 horsepower available at low RPMs, you don’t really “feel” the heavy load that you’re towing – you’re not holding the pedal to the floor to accelerate. It’s not enough to make that kind of horsepower. The block, pistons, and crankshaft have to be up to the task of containing the heavy combustion forces, the heat, the constant load. Sure, a little engine can handle the stresses – for a little while. But it won’t take heavy towing stress for 300,000 miles, day in and day out.

        Interestingly enough, since a V8 is two inline four cylinder engines joined at a common crankcase, it is possible to make a crossplane I4 engine. At least one motorcycle engine maker is doing that. If you listen to it on youtube, you’ll notice that it does not sound like a typical four cylinder engine; it doesn’t buzz, rather, it has the distinct V8 rumble. This is done to provide smooth power delivery.

  • avatar
    RedStapler

    Many of their competitors offer Diesel in this $40k+ SUV segment; VW/Audi/Porsche, BMW, Jeep all offer a oil burner.

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    LR is going to have a diesel…..wow!

    They’ve been around for years.

    It’s good to see the diesels moving into the heavier vehicles in the US.

    The Lion is a good diesel, an expensive engine.

    Give you V8 torque and near on 4cyl FE. Hard to beat.

  • avatar
    Tstag

    These comments are all very American. Let me give you the European view of Diesels. In Europe we buy Luxury cars with Diesel engines because Diesel is only slightly more expensive than Petrol. And remember Petrol is expensive on Europe thanks to tax. Diesels have also improved sigficantly over the last decade. They are still a bit gruff but nothing like they used to be.

    Diesels probably make no sense in the US where petrol prices are so much lower than Diesel but for Europeans they do. We also get taxed on lease cars where the c02 emmisions are taken into account. Again Diesel does better than petrol.

    Having said all of this governments are starting to turn on Diesel as they are now starting to be thought of as dirtier than petrol. Given that the likes of Mazda are working on a petrol engine that almost as efficient as a Diesel then I’m not sure Diesel will ever catch on in the states. But for Europeans it’s meant much cheaper motoring for years.

    • 0 avatar
      Joss

      Cali doesn’t like the larger particulate emissions from diesel. They roost deep in the lungs – apparently.

      I loathe diesel fumes I don’t inhale when I smell them. Only a German could invent a poison like diesel.

      Have you tried diesel glove at the filling station?

    • 0 avatar
      Maxb49

      Tstag, all very true. Diesel fumes put folks at risk for lung cancer.

      • 0 avatar
        azcelicafanatic

        2 hours exposure causes genetic damage, but who pays attention to scientists, amirite?http://news.ubc.ca/2015/01/07/breathing-in-diesel-exhaust-leads-to-changes-deep-under-the-hood/

  • avatar
    Chocolatedeath

    Would love that engine in my CX9 mated to a 10 speed. Combined with Mazdas Skyy Acive I bet I could get 30 plus combined easy.

  • avatar
    Pch101

    JLR has at least 24,258,426 reasons for doing this.

    That would happen to be the number of dollars that JLR paid in CAFE fines since December 2013. And they haven’t yet paid their fines for MY 2013 and 2014, which one would presume will be even higher than before.

    I wonder if some of the diesel fans who whine incessantly about CAFE will see the irony of this. (Yes, I doubt that they will, too.)

  • avatar

    From what I’ve read, the Td6 engine has every bit of the refinement that one would expect from a luxury car. Hopefully, the pricing for the diesel resides somewhere between the base gas-powered 3.0-liter supercharged V6 and the 5.0-liter naturally-aspirated V8, but it might end up being between the 5.0-liter and the supercharged 5.0-liter…

  • avatar
    CoreyDL

    My first thought was, “Bout damn time.”

    But then I realized in this class, diesel and mpg is not important to Americans. So meh.

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