Bailout Watch 234: "In your heart, you know he is right…. I hope you will post this… Please?"

Robert Farago
by Robert Farago
Robert Farago
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  • Ronnie Schreiber Ronnie Schreiber on Nov 23, 2008
    “First of all Thadeus McCotter is a principled conservative” obviously, you know, believing in the free market system and 100% against socialist tendencies. Mock all you want, but, yeah, McCotter is pretty consistent in sticking to a conservative ideology, so if he decides to support government intervention in business, it's obvious that it's his opinion that this is a crisis and not a time for ideological orthodoxy. You know, the way the guy you voted for says he's not going to repeal Bush's tax cuts because raising taxes in a recession is a bad idea, notwithstanding his ideologies. “The fact that McCotter supports some kind of aid package to the Detroit 3 means that he believes the crisis is real” gee, i wonder what finally got him around to this way of thinking, it couldn’t be because…“there’s a time for ideology and a time for action.” exactly, he’s perfectly willing to give up his conservative ideology if it means he’ll be gettin’ some money action. McCotter's been consistent. He opposed the Wall Street bailout at the time, contrasting Wall Street to the real economy where people actually make things. He's representing his constituents, not looking for cash in his own pocket. I know that it's hard for a "progressive" like you (aren't diseases progressive?) to understand that it's not all about personal power, but some folks in Washington actually serve their districts. You're welcome, as Rep. McCotter said, to come to western Oakland and Wayne counties and visit the shuttered Wixon assy plant and the people who worked there. Perhaps you'd be willing to tell them to their faces how you think they are lazy and greedy. “The Asian companies don’t make big cars and until recently didn’t sell fullsize light trucks so the mpg avg of their entire lineup was better.” darn those tricky asians and their inscrutable ways - making quality cars people like while obeying the CAFE standards. those bastards! Apologize for imputing racist motives to me. You're eliding past my point that CAFE gives structural advantages to the imports, who for the most part don't make large cars and light trucks. “Now the Detroit 3 are suffering for selling the cars & trucks people wanted.” nice use of past tense: I try, unlike some, to use precise descriptions when possible. The profits of the Detroit 3 in the 1990s shows that, yes, people did want their products. “overpriced” and “largely unneeded” and would be two other good terms to use. Largely? That's a bit of a weasel word. Does a large segment of American consumers find that domestic cars don't meet their needs? Sure, but a majority of Americans still, apparently, prefer the domestic brands. The Detroit 3 had a 55% market share in October and GM sold about 20,000 more cars than Toyota. Ford and Chrysler each sold more cars than Honda. By your standard, Apple computers are "largely unneeded" because they only have 10% of the personal computer market. Maybe we'll start hearing about how "nobody" wants an Apple computer, but I doubt it. Lefties love them their Apples, yum, yum. As for overpriced, one of the reasons why the domestics are losing money is that they have to compete on price with mfgs who have lower costs. Hondas aren't cheap, btw. “Japan, though, will not allow any US rice to be sold there because Japanese farmers are politically very strong.” if only the U.S. farmers had a strong farming lobby behind them. it must be so tough on companies like cargill. Yep, another one of those mean, nasty, greedy American corporations. Toyota is run by living saints, I tell you, saints! One can debate who has more political power in their respective countries, Japanese farmers or US agribusinesses, but that's a side issue to the indisputable fact that Japan keeps out US agricultural products. Why do you want Toyota and Honda to be able to sell products here but have no problem with Japan restricting imports of those things that we can produce competitively? according to your man from the video above yes, some healthy banks are getting the money. one large example: wells fargo. So, do you approve of giving healthy banks billions in giveaways? I gave an example of one less than healthy bank (though with $75 billion in cash on hand) that has already received as much as Detroit is requesting in a loan and most likely will request more. At least those loans will have to be repaid, unlike the direct injection of cash to the banks. then perhaps, as a matter of national security we should bail out the supply chain folks instead. you know, get to the meat of the matter. Perhaps, but had we had some kind of coherent industrial policy and recognized the true need to have a manufacturing base instead of buying cheap shit from China this wouldn't be an issue. I'd rather some money went to prop up the US machine tool industry but unfortunately, there hardly is a machine tool industry left in the US.
  • Morea Morea on Nov 23, 2008
    Ronnie Schreiber : it is our money in the first place and the United States is, after all, a union of individual states that balances federalism with states’ rights. Well, I supported Chuck Baldwin in the last election, so it looks like you and I may be lone voices in all of this. But, of couse, now we have worked ourselves around to NOT helping the Detroit 3. Afterall, someone has to be the first to say no to Federal money. Grove City College and now GM!
  • Creamy Creamy on Nov 23, 2008

    ronnie schreiber - this would go a lot faster if you would stick to the actual talking points instead of making assumptions. but, i'll try and muddle through your mess of a response. "Mock all you want" okay. "McCotter is pretty consistent in sticking to a conservative ideology" except for this one, very important, time. "it’s his opinion that this is a crisis and not a time for ideological orthodoxy" right, i got that, he said so in the video. "You know, the way the guy you voted for says he’s not going to repeal Bush’s tax cuts" big swing and a miss, ronnie schreiber. beware your assumptions and stick to the points of the arguments. "I know that it’s hard for a “progressive” like you" ooo, strike two. "but some folks in Washington actually serve their districts" foul tip! i agree, he is trying to serve his ditrict. doesn't mean he's not wrong, though. "assy plant" ha! you said assy plant. "Perhaps you’d be willing to tell them to their faces how you think they are lazy and greedy." strike three! never said this. i think they are neither lazy nor greedy. "Apologize for imputing racist motives to me." ask nicely, you cur. (where's my slapping glove and dueling pistol?) actually, i was the one being racist here, not you. "You’re eliding past my point that CAFE gives structural advantages to the imports, who for the most part don’t make large cars and light trucks" i'm not eliding past anything. no one had an advantage, the CAFE standards were there for all. if the big 3 decided to keep making trucks and suvs then fine, but they knew the price of that. it was a level playing field. "Does a large segment of American consumers find that domestic cars don’t meet their needs? Sure" thanks for agreeing with me. "Apple computers are “largely unneeded” because they only have 10% of the personal computer market" i would include the generally higher price, too, but yes, they are largely unneeded. "Maybe we’ll start hearing about how “nobody” wants an Apple computer" there is a difference between want and need you seem to be missing here. "Yep, another one of those mean, nasty, greedy American corporations." you're not even trying to throw strikes anymore, just aiming for the batter. it is a fact that some american corporations get large subsidies. for good or bad, it's what happens. "Toyota is run by living saints" i think you have to be dead to be a saint, no? "but that’s a side issue to the indisputable fact that Japan keeps out US agricultural products" yes, and agribusiness has a strong lobby and if they wanted to push the point of better trade with japan i am sure they could manage it. "Why do you want Toyota and Honda to be able to sell products here but have no problem with Japan restricting imports of those things that we can produce competitively?" i never said this. bad assumption. "So, do you approve of giving healthy banks billions in giveaways?" no.

  • Anonymous Anonymous on Nov 24, 2008

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