I'm sure many TTAC readers will recall the great Audi 5000 "unintended acceleration" legal turmoil of the mid-80's. The legal/media feeding frenzy set Audi sales back by a decade, despite the fact that every case of "unintended acceleration" was found to be caused by human, not mechanical error. Well, those bastions of quality journalism, the Detroit Free Press and Motor Trend blog, are trying to resuscitate the media frenzy, only this time Toyota's to blame for people mistaking the accelerator for their brake pedal. Apparently the NHTSA has received 33 complaints that Toyota Tacomas are driving themselves off the roads, and has launched an investigation into the 2006-2007 model years. "Toyota has said to us they've found nothing wrong with the truck and it's our fault," says one "victim." "They're basically calling us all stupid." Of course, after a crash nobody wants to take responsibility for the fact that they may have hit the gas instead of the brakes, but what is motivating this investigation has nothing to do with the facts of the individual cases. No, the investigation is being spurred by the fact that only four "unintended acceleration" complaints have been logged against non-Tacoma pickups in the period that 33 were logged against the 'yota. "If there were truly human error, there would be a proportional distribution across models," says Clarence Ditlow, head of the Center for Auto Safety in Washington. "It's very difficult to explain how some makes and models have higher numbers of complaints than others absent some flaw in the vehicle." Yes, but it's very easy to prove that your brakes are more powerful than your engine. In fact, if a TTAC reader out there has a Tacoma, perhaps they would do us the honor of standing on the brakes while mashing the accelerator for a few seconds. This should prove fairly simply that "unintended acceleration" is possible only when you are not actually on the brakes.
81 Comments on ““Unintended Acceleration” Rears Its Ugly Head...”
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I know exactly what this is – these vehicles are coming to life and attacking their owners. It was all foretold in the 1997 movie Trucks.
U-Turn, U-Die!
I can supply you with a picture of a 2007 Toyota Tundra doing said action, if that might be beneficial for some ever-doubting readers.
A picture or a video?
A video would be so much better than a picture…
But yeah, the US is full of people that do not want to take responsibility for their own actions.
I have a 2007 Tacoma, and while I can’t say that the thing has ever taken off on me, it did take me by surprise a couple of times before I got used to it.
AC on, foot on the brake, and when the compressor cycles off, the incremental power available from the decreased accessory load will surge the truck forward if you’re not firm on the pedal.
I don’t know about you, but generally I just keep enough pressure to make sure the thing is stopped, not all the way to the floor. Just takes some getting used to is all.
“Toyota has said to us they’ve found nothing wrong with the truck and it’s our fault,” says one “victim.” “They’re basically calling us all stupid.”
Sometimes the truth hurts…
If its any indication based on my morning commute, over 90% of people on the road could easily fall into that category..
Are there any standards for the horizontal placement of the brake and gas pedals? I could see a problem if they were fairly close together and a driver operated the vehicle with big work/snow boots. This happens to me with my Honda Accord at the beginning of the winter season when I start wearing snow boots.
Lots of people belong in a bus. These people belong in a short bus.
They coincidentally all are owned by 2.x sales people and suffer from this condition the day before they are repo’d.
We’ll know this is serious when 60 minutes does a ‘report’ on it.
Then again, with the rise of the net and the Dan Blather fiasco, perhaps they’ve learned their lesson.
33 complaints. Out of thousands and thousands of owners. OK. Thank you Freep for that hard hitting piece.
Worry not, dear ToMoCo fans. If it is a problem, rest assured, Toyota will fix it quickly and effectively.
If this issue fails to gain traction in the media, please contact Stone Phillips at DateLine NBC. After rigging Chevrolet pick-ups to blow up on impact, Stone is ready to tackle Toyota.
I always wondered how a spring loaded throttle body (Audi) could open itself beyond a little extra engine speed to accommodate the load of the a/c compressor.
Now we’ve got fully electronic throttle bodies with electric motors incorporated into them that control idle speed and a full range of throttle movement for the cruise control. In some cars there isn’t even any connection between the gas pedal and the throttle body – it’s all electronic. Now it is possible (and unlikely) for engine speed to race away.
But is it? I have SEEN someone confuse the pedals on a car twice. They swore they didn’t but they did. One was an elderly driver and one was a marginal skills driver.
Will be interesting to see what turns up. Don’t the black boxes now built in cars record the last moments of the car’s hardware data?
I agree with Orian – lots of people out there who want to blame other folks for their own mistakes.
I witnessed an “unintended acceleration” event just last week. It was an old lady in a Buick, not a Toyota. I was stopping by to see a friend at his office, and standing out in his company’s parking lot I heard tire squealing in the store parking lot adjacent. A first I thought it was just some kid being a dick, but then I looked again just in time to see a white Buick come crashing through the chain-link fence and into the parking lot we were standing in. It T-boned a parked car and came to a stop. The woman driving was visibly shaken, but thankfully unhurt. She was obviously standing on the gas when she meant to be on the brake.
–chuck
http://chuck.goolsbee.org
I covered this in:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/in-defense-of-the-audi-5000/
Obviously nobody drag races with automatic transmissions anymore.Remember “Line Lock”.
So if “unintended acceleration” is solely the result of “stupid” people, but 33 of 37 of all the complaints happened in Tacomas, does that mean stupid people have some natural predisposition to Tacomas?
“I can supply you with a picture of a 2007 Toyota Tundra doing said action, if that might be beneficial for some ever-doubting readers.”
How do you supply a picture of acceleration?
I suspect this is the same as the comment I hear every winter:
“The brakes locked up and I hit this patch of ice and the car accelerated right into the car in front of me”
No dear, it didn’t.
I thought it was just YO to slang Toyota, since that’s what people with Toyota trucks do by erasing the front and afts words to get the centered YO.
God I hate that.
“So if “unintended acceleration” is solely the result of “stupid” people, but 33 of 37 of all the complaints happened in Tacomas, does that mean stupid people have some natural predisposition to Tacomas?”
Please, 33 of the presumably thousands of complaints were from Tacoma owners. This does happen from time to time, throttle cables get rusty, floor mats get bunched up etc. It does not mean there is a design flaw. Usually though, it’s driver error. I had my throttle stick wide open once because the pivot on my pedal had caught the top of a Husky Liner floor mat right after I had floored it to pull out into trafic, took me about a second and a half to realize it and turn off the key. Panic is what did these people in.
jsfvo,
Good one.
I would bet there is actually a marginal design flaw in the ergonomics. Nothing anyone will likely ever prove, but it’s likely there just the same. Some factor of the angles and distances involved with the wheel, seat, pedals, floor, door, and tunnel. Someone should get full measurements of all the “victims” as well as their actual shoes. Send it all to a bunch of folks at a good university and let them have at it.
So if “unintended acceleration” is solely the result of “stupid” people, but 33 of 37 of all the complaints happened in Tacomas, does that mean stupid people have some natural predisposition to Tacomas?
Or, the Toyota greenwashing device installed in all of their vehicles has caused them to turn stupid.
When I was at a “Taste of Lexus” event, I witnessed an individual experience some “unintended acceleration.” Parked right in front where people switch drivers, the genius of a man forgets to put the car in park in an IS350.
Door open, left leg out of the car, he notices the car move, and proceeds to step on what he thought was the brake pedal with the right half of his body still inside the car. Needless to say, he misses said brake pedal and slams on the accelerator in its stead. Car launches forward and collides into the back of a GS350 doing maybe between 5-10mph.
Thankfully this man didn’t blame his accident on a faulty brake pedal, though one might extrapolate from his actions that had 50+ people not witnessed him do that, he would blame the ordeal on the car and not himself. (Those darn Toyotas….well…in this case a Lexus)
I’m going to have to unfortunately take a page from Lutz’s book:
This is a crock of shit.
I’m unfortunately going to have to take a page from the book of Lutz:
This is a crock of sh|t.
I’d like to know the percentage of these “33″ that have the 5.7L engines. Something tells me that said people don’t understand what low-end torque means, and probably shouldn’t be driving with enough torque to launch into space.
Reading the link to the “In Defense…” article, pedal differences seem very likely. A few reviews I’ve read comment on the closeness of the pedals, especially compared to Domestic pickups. It’s very reasonable that certain drivers are having trouble adjusting (not to say that they are “too close,” but maybe that some are just used to pedals that are too far apart for even an ogre…).
Please, 33 of the presumably thousands of complaints were from Tacoma owners.
tankd0g – Why presume when it says right in the article …
“…only four ‘unintended acceleration’ complaints have been logged against non-Tacoma pickups in the period that 33 were logged against the ‘yota.”
Doesn’t Toyota have a data-logging black box in it’s vehicles? Most new vehicles keep a snapshot of performance information in the computer from the moments before and air bag deployment. That data should answer the gas pedal/brake pedal question.
Not sure if anyone else has taken you to task over “…despite the fact that every case of “unintended acceleration” was found to be caused by human, not mechanical error.”
I believe the conclusion was that mechanical defect could not be proved or duplicated and thus, “absense of proof is proof of absense”.
Just seems that one would want to be cautious here.
OK, guys, here’s how unintended acceleration can work, especially in an older vehicle. Most fuel injection vehicles out there have what’s known as an “IAC” (idle air control) valve, a little solenoid that advances the throttle whenever a load (such as a/c) is placed on the engine. Over time, some of these valves can fail, leaving little pieces of rubber or other debris inside the metal solenoid valve. This can cause the valve to stick and actually pull the throttle cable wide open. Remember those old, old cars with vacuum wipers? What happened when the throttle was pushed wide open? Right, the wipers stopped. Why? No vacuum at the manifold. Now, power brakes are mostly controlled by- wait for it- vacuum! There is a tank on the master that “stores” some, so that supposedly the car or truck will stop at least once before the vacuum runs out. But, with age, some of these don’t work too well. Older, or inexperienced, or just startled drivers experience the tremendous increase in pedal pressure required when the vacuum runs out as a “failure ” of the brakes. Bingo! Unintended acceleration, inability to stop the car. Not always completely the driver’s fault, huh?
“tankd0g – Why presume when it says right in the article …
“…only four ‘unintended acceleration’ complaints have been logged against non-Tacoma pickups in the period that 33 were logged against the ‘yota.”
”
No, that’s not what it says, that’s what Eds summary of the article in question says. From the actual article:
“Kronholm said his research showed that compared with the mass of Tacoma complaints, including six injuries, there were only four reports of sudden acceleration from owners of all other 2006 and 2007 pickups. His Toyota dealer found no problem, and Toyota declined to examine the truck.”
Kronholm is one of the supposed victims, hardly a valid source.
OK, I’ll take the dissenting point of view. It seems quite reasonable to me to examine Tacomas since in a given period of time the NHTSA recieved 37 complaints of PUs suddenly accelerating, and 33 of them were Tacomas. I would expect a general stupidity distribution to cover more makes.
“It’s very difficult to explain how some makes and models have higher numbers of complaints than others absent some flaw in the vehicle.”
That seemed like a pretty reasonable statement to me.
I see no reason to immediately jump to the conclusion that these people were at fault.
I don’t know if that picture was taken at an acual crash that was blamed on this event, but look at that left tire, that would have to be some serious idle malfunction to smoke the left tire like that.
“So if “unintended acceleration” is solely the result of “stupid” people, but 33 of 37 of all the complaints happened in Tacomas, does that mean stupid people have some natural predisposition to Tacomas?”
Here in Michigan, it seems that stupid people have natural predispositions to Chevrolet Luminas. Every time I see a Lumina on the road, it is either driving the line, or cutting across lanes, or signaling right then cutting across and turning left, etc.
Just for the record I believe that the “unintended acceleration” probably was the caused by human error. However, some products seem to encourage human error more than others (poor ergonomics, bad floor mats, etc) and are therefore unsafe.
I just went over to the NHTSA web site to try to get some more solid facts than Kronholm’s “research” that states there were only 37 complaints for this behavior. Unfortunately they make it damn near impossible to do so. You have to search each model of vehicle seperately and each model has several categories that could apply to unintended acceleration, and all of them only show that were was some sort of problem with the device related to acceleration, not what actually happened.
Yup, it’s a government web site all right.
Incidentally, on the NHTSA site I see 7 unintended acceleration complaints and 4 vehicle speed control system related fires for the 2007 Ford F150 alone.
“If there were truly human error, there would be a proportional distribution across models,” says Clarence Ditlow, head of the Center for Auto Safety in Washington. “It’s very difficult to explain how some makes and models have higher numbers of complaints than others absent some flaw in the vehicle.”
How does someone so stupid get to be head of a big organization?
If the Taco’s pedals are closer together and other makes or if there is a problem with the floormats than yea, it could be something with the design, but to say it’s mechanical, or even an electrical flaw is silly, which is what Mr. Ditlow is implying. Has there ever been a case where it was proven that a defect caused unintended acceleration? Wasn’t the Audi case that their pedals were positioned differently than most other makes?
Well, even when you put the Ford Explorer ‘roll over’ incidents into perspective, with over 6 million sold, the rollover rate is lower then many cars and just about every other SUV of its era(first-gen 90’s Explorers). Even the Pinto was all sensationalizing a ‘problem’ that was statistically average(at worst) per units sold. But when a ‘news’ crew goes as far as to install model rocket engines to force a Silverado to catch fire in a side impact ‘investigative’ report, what do you expect to hear from the main stream media?- Whatever will sell more advertising slots….
And no, there are no exact standards for pedal placement other then humans have feet at the ends of their legs so they are placed somewhere under the steering wheel. Just about every mid-rear engine sports car, like the 911, have the pedals offset to the center of the car(i.e. the brake is ‘normally’ where the gas pedal would be) due to the front wheel intrusions. Its very noticeable the first time you jump in one but you get used to it. And smaller vehicles with large RWD drive trains like the Jeep Grand Cherokee have the pedals shifted to the outside to make room for the tunnel. The GC in particular is quite easy to hit the gas by accident if you are not used to it.
I see no reason to immediately jump to the conclusion that these people were at fault.
Because absent brake failure, a car’s brakes should always stop an accelerating car. Always. Hit the gas and brakes simultaneously from a dead stop, and that vehicle should not move.
As some have noted, though, there could be ergonomic issues that make some cars more prone to human error than others. Without knowing anything about the specifics in this case, pedal placement would be a good place to start looking for issues. Floor mats can be another culprit.
kevinb120,
I hear you on the Jeep GC. There have been several news accounts about GC’s crashing at tunnel car washes because the attendent hit the wrong pedal when trying to pull the vehicle out to the towel drying area.
But again this is not a defect and I don’t think the manufacturer should be held responsible, unless the government wants to mandate the placement and function of all the control mechanisnms in a vehicle. Wait I better not give the politicians any ideas.
I have sold cars for nearly 10 years and have been in easily over 50,000 vehicles including trade-ins, used vehicles, wholesale junkers and new cars, and that’s a good point PCH, some people have extremely dangerous AutoZone floor mats that don’t fit and bunch in the footwell, as well as lots of loose soda bottles and other trash that can definitely roll out from under the seat and get caught up in the pedals. After the car flipped all they remember is that they were on the phone, lighting a cigarette and driving with their knee, and the next thing they knew the car couldn’t stop and was out of control.
Not to mention people driving with high-heels, flip-flops and crocs or giant over-sized platform shoes with hiking treadpattern soles and god knows what else wrong. Hell just this morning I was following Mrs Makeup ‘n Breakfast in traffic that had half the tire of her car hanging over the edge of the pavement several times at 60mph among other idiotic movements.
abr2 I doubt the idle valve is even a tenth of a WOT.
Incidentally, on the NHTSA site I see 7 unintended acceleration complaints and 4 vehicle speed control system related fires for the 2007 Ford F150 alone.
Ok, not sure what the F-150 has to do anything but I’ll play along. Search NHTSA for 2006 Tacoma for Vehicle Speed Control issues. You’ll find 30. The 2006 F-150 has 6. Considering the vastly different production numbers between the Tacoma and the F-150 doesn’t this indicate that there may indeed be a problem?
“Ok, not sure what the F-150 has to do anything but I’ll play along. Search NHTSA for 2006 Tacoma for Vehicle Speed Control issues. You’ll find 30. The 2006 F-150 has 6. Considering the vastly different production numbers between the Tacoma and the F-150 doesn’t this indicate that there may indeed be a problem?”
The article states there was only 37 complaints TOTAL for 06-07 pickups and that 33 of them were Tacomas. That is obviously incorrect. Look up all the F series pickups, B series mazdas, all the Nissan, Chev and GMs and you’ll see this load of crap is “experienced” by just about everyone with a steering wheel. The rash of recent Tacoma entries is probably due to BS articles like this one.
Someone brought up a story of a woman hitting the accelerator when she meant to hit the brake. This reminds me of a local story.
An elderly man in my town ran through the local Dairy Queen TWICE; same man, same building, same spot. He was parked on an incline (the car was pointed uphill) against a 3″ raised sidewalk (like a short curb). He claimed, both times, that he thought the car was in reverse.
Since he was about to back DOWN a hill, my question was, and still is, why was he pushing that hard on the accelerator? This always seems to be the case. I just don’t push that hard on the accelerator or brake when I am negotiating a parking lot.
The article below is not about the Tacoma, but it helps to identity what may be a problem here, too. Some excerpts are below:
Toyota to recall floor mats in 2007 Lexus, Camrys
Toyota Motor Corp will recall “all-weather” floor mats used in 2007 Lexus ES 350 and Camry vehicles due to complaints they can slip forward and trap the accelerator pedal, U.S. highway regulators said on Wednesday.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration also urged drivers of other Toyota vehicles, including the Prius and Avalon hybrids, to check the accessory mats to ensure they are properly installed.
The recall involves more than 30,000 mats for the ES 350 and more than 24,000 for the Camry.
Highway safety investigators concluded there was no defect with the product. The problem occurs when the all-weather mats, an optional feature, are placed on top of standard mats. Stacking prevents the top mat from being secured properly, allowing it to slip forward and possibly cause unintended acceleration.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/tnBasicIndustries-SP/idUKN2626974420070927
Well it just so happens I have an 06 Tacoma on the lot and went and drove it around the parking lot. Gas pedal is thin and very close to the carpet on the right edge(not centered between the tunnel and brake pedal), brake is slightly higher 2″ square and quite close to the gas. Toyotas typically have lousy little pedals in general. There’s about 6 full inches between the brake and the clutch pedal pads, so its odd they are so close.
I have size 10 dress shoes on and could still heel-and-toe it easily if it were a sports car. A clumsy foot with floppy or numb(thick soled) shoes could easily sit on the right edge of the brake pedal and ride the gas at the same time. So its just poor pedal placement if you’re not paying attention. Brake pedal sits just high enough that a foot can also get trapped on the gas under the brake pedal. But this is not that uncommon as a lot of vehicles have crappy setups. On a 1-10, I give it a 2 on design.
The article states there was only 37 complaints TOTAL for 06-07 pickups and that 33 of them were Tacomas. That is obviously incorrect. Look up all the F series pickups, B series mazdas, all the Nissan, Chev and GMs and you’ll see this load of crap is “experienced” by just about everyone with a steering wheel. The rash of recent Tacoma entries is probably due to BS articles like this one.
Admittedly, I didn’t look through all of them. But for the F-150 almost all of them (of the 3 under the Vehicle Speed Control cagegory) were something like the following actual excerpt…
…PULLED UP TO A STOP STREET STEPPED ON BRAKE PEDAL AND ACCELERATOR PEDAL AT SAME TIME AND ALMOST BROADSIDED ANOTHER VEHICLE.
Whereas, the Tacoma ones (of the 19 under the Vehicle Speed Control cagegory) were more like…
…BEGAN TO SLOW DOWN TO APPROX 15 MILES PER HOUR THE TRUCK WOULD NOT STOP AND BEGAN TO ACCELERATE ON ITS OWN. I TRIED TO STOP IT BUT COULD NOT CONTROL THE VEHICLE.
But I’m sure all the complaints are the result of a conspiracy against Toyota.
I’m not a Toyota fan at all but objective as far as looking at vehicles for what they are or are not. But with pressure on the brake, if the pedals are wet or your foot is just more then 1/2 to the right side it will touch the gas under moderate braking. Again, there are other vehicles with similar poor placement for no reason. A lotus Elise or Miata has this as well but it is for the intention to heel-and-toe, so clumsy shoes are a huge no-no for these vehicles in the first place.
But for a mid-size pickup it is fairly poor design considering the real estate available in the footwell area. However, it is what it is, and most likely operator error over the vehicle spontaneously accelerating, whether its just the lame design, clumsy shoes, lack of coordination, an empty pepsi bottle or Tweety Bird floor mats..