By on August 15, 2017

friedman

It’s the stuff of which public relations nightmares are made.

For the past couple of years Dodge has sponsored Motor Trend‘s “Roadkill” show, which can be thought of as a generic white-label take on Fast N’ Loud. It’s worth noting that Dodge did several promotions with Rawlings before parting ways with him and settling for the Roadkill team; the brand appears to believe that its heartland audience is best reached through flamboyant/quasi-authentic/redneck-chic YouTube personalities. What that says about FCA’s view of its customers is an exercise best left to the reader.

This past weekend, Dodge and Roadkill teamed for “Roadkill Nights on Woodward,” a staged car show and street-drag event in Detroit. There’s been no small amount of interest in this among the company’s owner base and from what I can see the event was a rip-roaring success, chock-full of Vipers and Demons and whatnot. Whenever an automaker spends this much money on any public relations exercise, there is always a tremendous amount of data deep-diving done immediately afterwards to demonstrate ROI of the expenditure via social media visibility, buff-book coverage, and mainstream mentions. Given the big turnout both online and in real life, I’m sure Dodge and its marketing partners were looking forward to the Monday meeting where they could pat themselves on the back for a job well done.

As it turns out, this weekend was an absolute barn burner of Dodge-branded media exposure. Unfortunately, the Dodge in question wasn’t a Demon lifting its front wheels on Woodward. Instead, it was a V6-powered 2010 Challenger that was driven into a crowd of anti-white supremacist protesters in Charlottesville, Virginia, causing one fatality and multiple injuries.

The odd coincidence of a “Roadkill”-themed promotion with a Challenger-caused hit-and-run fatality in Charlottesville has pundits on both sides of America’s culture war salivating — and with this unforeseen notoriety comes an unusual, and nearly unprecedented, demand.


disavow

Last year, when Abdul Razak Ali Artan used a Honda Civic to run down several victims on the campus of Ohio State University before stabbing more people with a butcher knife, the fact that he used a 2002 Honda Civic sedan for the assault was treated as no more relevant than the kind of shoes he was wearing or the contents of his previous day’s lunch. This seems eminently reasonable and fair to me; after all, Honda had no responsibility for Abdul Razak Ali Artan’s attack nor was the Civic deliberately engineered to injure people. Quite the opposite, really; attempting to engineer safe interactions with pedestrians has been a primary manufacturer focus in these past few years, leading to the bluff-fronted, high-hooded aesthetic that has even managed to make its way into the C7 Corvette’s design language.

Unfortunately for Dodge, some people on the far right decided to make jokes about “Dodge #Roadkill” on Twitter, leading to a chorus of all-too-predictable demands that Dodge “disavow” the Charlottesville attack. This is absurd on its face; there is precisely zero chance that FCA and its Dodge brand would endorse, promote, or even accept the use of its products in an act of murder. Furthermore, the unfortunate coincidence of the “Roadkill” event and the Charlottesville attack is simply that — a coincidence. Finally, the word “roadkill” refers to animals, not people, so unless you truly believe that Dodge views American citizens of any race or political affiliation as mere dead animals on the street then the entire controversy is obviously a complete fabrication.

The proper response for FCA in this situation is no response at all. The company is not responsible for actions taken in a 2010 Challenger. Its marketing for the Challenger lacks even the slightest bit of a suggestion that it would be a good idea to use a Challenger as an instrument of murder. Honda had no comment on Abdul Razak Ali Artan and Dodge need have no comment on this attack. Even an expression of sympathy is probably too much, because it implies that this incident is somehow more tragic than any other time a pedestrian was struck and killed by a Challenger and therefore gives credence to the ridiculous notion that there are different classes of victims out there, with some having smaller souls than others.

The people at Roadkill were the first to break under the pressure with this Facebook post on Monday morning:

Roadkill strongly condemns the violence committed and racism displayed in Charlottesville. We mourn the tragic deaths of Heather Heyer and Virginia state police troopers Lt. H. Jay Cullen and Berke M.M. Bates, and we wish a full and speedy recovery to those injured in Charlottesville. We are taking legal action to stop hate groups from unlawfully using our brand to promote their reprehensible agenda. Roadkill is a popular automotive adventure show and its event, Roadkill Nights, is a family-friendly car festival event in Detroit that celebrates drag racing and hot rod culture. We have no association with the hateful events that took place in Charlottesville.

Dodge has removed its Roadkill banner ads but has not taken any further action. And this is where it should end — except that a considerable number of activists have decided that Dodge does bear some responsibility for the killing and/or that Dodge should take legal action against “Nazis.” One particularly unhinged fellow wrote in Citylab:

when the first images emerged of the vehicle that plowed into a crowd of anti-fascist protesters in downtown Charlottesville on Saturday, I thought, Yep, that makes sense… The Challenger is among the most retrograde of machines, a scrupulously literal homage to the brand’s 1970 model, except bulked up. You can drive one off the dealer lot with more than 800 horsepower, an absurd figure for a civilian-operated vehicle… there’s a kind of awful logic in seeing a huge American muscle car as the killing machine of choice for the Nazis and white supremacists that besieged Charlottesville. The Dodge Challenger—even more so than its two rivals, the Ford Mustang and Chevy Camaro—is a kind of mechanical embodiment of Making America Great Again, a dinosaur car utterly shameless in its evocation of a never-was national past… In the toxic stew of racial resentments and masculine anxieties we saw in the young white mobs of Charlottesville, the weaponized nostalgia that helped fuel the killer’s car is a small ingredient—but an ingredient nonetheless… for most of us, driving is the most dangerous thing we do every day. There’s a lot of evidence that we’re getting too dumb and too distracted to be allowed to do it much longer. To this debate now comes a fresh argument: Some of us are also too evil.

The calls for Dodge to “disavow” the Challenger’s use in the Charlottesville crash should therefore be seen in a larger context; Dodge is also expected for apologize for “toxic masculinity” and “absurd power” and “masculine anxiety”. In other words, some of these people think Dodge should apologize for the Challenger’s existence.

Those of you who understand the highly-politicized mindset know the apology must also be accompanied by re-education and/or penance. In this case, people want Dodge to spend money on lawsuits against right-wing websites:

suestormer

I’m reminded of nothing so much as the “loyalty oath” section of Joseph Heller’s Catch-22. You can read the section here but it’s worth noting two particular quotes:

“What makes you so sure Major Major is a Communist?”

“You never heard him denying it until we began accusing him, did you?

“The important thing is to keep them pledging,” he explained to his cohorts. “It doesn’t matter whether they mean it or not. That’s why they make little kids pledge allegiance even before they know what ‘pledge’ and ‘allegiance’ means.”

For the people who want Dodge to disavow the “toxic masculinity” of the Challenger, this attack is a convenient pretext to demand an apology for current Challengers and a loyalty oath that there will be no future cars that remind anybody of the Challenger. Let’s hope Dodge has the courage to ignore these people.

The freedom to choose and purchase your own car, even if it’s something as “toxic” (their word) or “awesome” (my word) as a Challenger, is a freedom that should be preserved as long as we can manage. Let’s not permit activists to turn that into, well, roadkill.

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195 Comments on “A Loyalty Oath Moment At Dodge...”


  • avatar
    ash78

    “The proper response for FCA in this situation is no response at all. ”

    So much this. This needs to be the approach to almost all use of excessive communications, namely through social media. Companies and politicians should sometimes say something, but eventually it becomes an expectation or entitlement to the wider media, so it’s like a treadmill you can never leave.

    The key is to ignore it, which is what I hope FCA will do. Ignore neo-Nazis baiting you to their little picnic, ignore reactionary SJWs baiting you with their endless protectionism. This new media era has really messed with people’s heads and made it much, much harder to differentiate the important from the LOUD.

    The most presidential thing Trump could do would be to stop using Twitter.

    (full disclosure: I have to admit I almost chuckled at the schadenfreude of what would have happened if this were VW.)

    • 0 avatar
      scott25

      But….everyone’s important! Everyone is special and everyone’s opinion matters!

      So they think and so they’ve been told.

      • 0 avatar
        Arthur Dailey

        @Scott: And by posting here, you (and I) demonstrate that we both believe that to be true. Otherwise why would we post our opinions for others to see?

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        In actuality, Scott, I’d say the folks who organized this rally knew that no one thinks their views matter. In fact, they counted on it. Groups like that depend on what I’d call “self-fulfilling prophecy victimization,” which is basically how you “market” hateful, wrongheaded or downright ridiculous viewpoints to a broader audience.

        This comes in several steps:

        1) Realize your viewpoint is hateful, and wrong, and probably needs to change.
        2) But you won’t do it anyway.
        3) You know that if you broadcast your hateful, wrong viewpoints in public, a large part of the general public will react with revulsion.
        4) Revulsion tends to include anger. Human Nature 101.
        5) Anger at your hateful, wrong viewpoint reinforces your viewpoint that people hate you.
        6) Large scale public hate tends to make the news.
        7) Therefore, hate and troll away, wait for the angry response to make the news, and say, “see, I was right…we’re victims of HATE!”
        8) Since all this made the news, millions of decent people will say, “hey, maybe we should do something about these hateful creeps. Millions of people = politics.
        9) Use that as “evidence” of your political oppression.
        10) Welcome new members who feel the same and watch your movement grow.

        And on and on. These folks WANT to be victims. It’s kind of like Gandhi’s “passive resistance,” except the cause they are trying to push is completely wrong.

        Hitler used this tactic brilliantly, by the way. It’s also a go-to in terrorists’ playbooks.

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      It pains me to say this, as it acknowledges how primordial and imbecilic many humans are, and to what great effect marketing actually successfully penetrates their lizard brains, but Dodge REALLY needs to revamp their marketing strategy, tactics and entire schtick.

      Roadkill Nights and such reminds me of the type of ad campaign that would greatly appeal to Todd, his Uncle Jack and the rest of the White Supremacist-methamphetamine cooking crew in ‘Breaking Bad.’

      What kind of car did Lydia, or Elliott and Gretchen, for that matter, drive?

      They nailed Gus Fringe’s vehicle, as they did Mike’s & Hank’s.

    • 0 avatar
      FlyinGato@youtube

      I think we are missing the bigger point here. The country is so divided we have literal Nazis, flags and all, fighting against literal communists, also with their hammer and sickle flying high. This is a big problem, and it’s going to get worse…

      I can’t believe Dodge is being forced to apologize for something it had NOTHING to do with. We should get the MSM to start apologizing for their part in this…

      • 0 avatar
        Lorenzo

        The worst thing anybody can do is apologize for anything brought up by the SJW brigade. The best thing is to ignore them all.

        As for nazis and communists battling in the streets, they had that in Germany before the nazis took over. They had nazi/communist riots everywhere except the biggest German state of Prussia, where police waded in, broke up the fighting, and arrested both sides.

        Everywhere else, politicians held back the police from doing their jobs, just like Charlottesville, Baltimore, Berkeley, and Portland, cities run by democrats who were taking sides. Rioting is a felony and should be shut down in the streets, and prosecuted vigorously in the courts.

  • avatar
    Whittaker

    The culture war has no limits and very little morality.
    Apologizing for things for which one has no culpability should be reserved for marriage and other semi-sexual pursuits.

    • 0 avatar
      gtemnykh

      “Apologizing for things for which one has no culpability should be reserved for marriage and other semi-sexual pursuits.”

      Hahaha this. Actually this aligns perfectly with my theory that a lot of the skinny-jeans wearing guys into the SJW scene are really just looking for a date. Hoping the ladies swoon for an extra “tolerant” “ally.”

      • 0 avatar
        PrincipalDan

        lol you guys are making me think of the gentlemen I know who lived through the 60s. They weren’t at Music Festivals because they wanted to “tune in and drop out” – that’s where the most free loving tail was.

      • 0 avatar
        scott25

        @gtem I know from experience that your theory is extremely and almost universally accurate.

      • 0 avatar

        Quite a sociologist there, Gtem.

      • 0 avatar
        rpn453

        “Actually this aligns perfectly with my theory that a lot of the skinny-jeans wearing guys into the SJW scene are really just looking for a date.”

        Jordan Peterson explains this quite well in his most recent appearance on Joe Rogan’s podcast. Basically, they’re men who can’t compete in the traditional male dominance hierarchy and are looking for any possible niche that might earn them contact with females. At the same time, the SJW females are trying to bring everyone down to a common level of mediocrity since they also can’t compete with the dominant males or females. So that outcome also benefits the beta males.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        @gtemnykh

        Insightful post, but they’re doing it wrong. A woman who wants a man, wants a man, not another woman.

        Beta males, hear me hear me!

        Distill thy water.
        Change thy diet.
        Frequent thy gym.
        Lift weight of thy gym.
        Run outside or on thy treadmill.
        Stack thy cash and valuables.
        Be wary of thy fairer sex, and use thy judgment.
        Bow down and dedicate thy driving to the LORD.

    • 0 avatar
      cdotson

      “Apologizing for things for which one has no culpability should be reserved for marriage and other semi-sexual pursuits.”

      Only if you think that step is necessary before obtaining permission to retrieve from your significant other/intended the bag in which they hold your balls.

      Apology is weakness. Only consider it when you are/were truly wrong.

      • 0 avatar
        dwford

        Does “I’m sorry you overreacted” count as an apology?

        • 0 avatar
          Arthur Dailey

          I had to look up SJW.

          As someone of a generation who grew up in the John Wayne tradition, remembering The Duke say “Don’t apologize, it’s a sign of weakness”, I have since learned that your outlook depends on your situation in life.

          So as someone with daughters, I have come to appreciate the importance of much of what we might refer to as SJW’s have accomplished during my lifetime.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Arthur, have I thanked you lately for being such a damn polite guy?

            If not, consider this as such.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “SJW totalitarians.”

            Funny you’d say that…a large portion of my family ended up in a gas chamber because of actual totalitarianism.

            I suspect a large portion of your family ended up in the same place.

            And a great many fools who started that rally would no doubt just love to infuse our last breaths with a nice, healthy dose of Zyklon B.

            I’ll say the same thing to you that I say to my two daughters, both of whom have labeled Trump a dictator: don’t bulls**t around with the “totalitarian” label. It blinds you to the real totalitarians, who are counting on people shouting at each other too loudly to notice what they’re up to.

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            @FreedMike, Thanks. If true it is probably because in the immortal words of George Costanza “I’m completely ignoring every urge towards common sense and good judgment I’ve ever had. It became very clear to me, that every decision I’ve ever made, in my entire life, has been wrong. My life is the opposite of everything I want it to be. So I will do the opposite.”

            And as someone who lost his all of his maternal Grandfather’s family to Fascist Oppression, I agree that we need to moderate our comments to maintain a level of reality.

            Ronnie, just ask your mother about the negative societal impacts of the 50’s, 60’s and even the 70’s. Ask your daughters if they or any of their female friends have felt uncomfortable or singled out at work due to their gender.

            Pendulums swing. And as long as they are moving, never settle in one stable place. Our test is to stop them from swinging too far in one direction.

            The issue with the ‘heritage media’ is that they are being fed a daily diet of sophomoric/childish lies and half-truths. Rather than focus on the important aspects of what is occurring they continue to fixate on these, when in most instances they are either distractions or relatively unimportant.

  • avatar
    mikey

    The guy driving into the crowd, was/is a nut case. Hopefully U.S justice will prevail. The alleged perpetrator, if convicted will spend a real big chunk of his life thinking about his actions…

    The vehicle was just his weapon of choice. The brand of said vehicle is totally irrelevant. That being said, I’m sure there is folks that will pin the blame on FCA.

    • 0 avatar

      Yep. If it were a Chevy Suburban which uses more fuel and is much larger than the Challenger, nobody would have said a thing. Somehow the Challenger’s shape has made it a target.

      • 0 avatar
        MrGreenMan

        That’s because we’re out of full SUV frenzy mode. 20 years ago, the SUV would have been fully demonized. There was an old radio bit that Rush Limbaugh used to do about SUV alerts – you can see it in the description of the truck attack in Paris, where they say “the truck drove into the crowd” – they used to say “an SUV drove into and killed” as if to blame the machine.

        That’s because the cause of the day then was the environment, global warming, and the Kyoto protocol. Since we live in the era of “toxic masculinity”, stating your pronouns, checking your privileges, and a million YouTube harridans deciding how sculpted a video game character’s butt can be, Dodge has a bullseye on it for selling a throwback masculine angle such as with its “Dodge Brothers” ad campaign.

        I don’t know any men in meat space who drive Dodges, but I know a lot of Dodge fans of the female persuasion who drive Darts and Durangos, which makes the verbal diarrhea from Citylab even funnier.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @MrGreenMan – I agree 100%. The car is getting singled out because of Dodge’s advertising and the fact that it pushes stereotypes. “that thing got a hemi”, and many of the other advertisements have a similar audience.
          It does not help that “RoadKill nights” and “RoadKill” were used in slogans/memes by the Alt-Reich crowd.
          It could have easily been a rollin’coal F250 which also is seen as a symbol of old school rebellious white masculinity.
          Jack’s “Abdul Razak Ali Artan Honda Civic” comparison if way off the mark since no one associates Honda with terrorists. The reaction might have been slightly different if it was a Hilux.

          • 0 avatar

            @Lou BC: Respectfully, I think you missed Jack’s main point. The Honda comparison is on point as would be a Mercedes comparison (France vehicle run amok earlier – if it indeed was a Mercedes truck).

            People have done stupid things to other people for a long, long time irregardless of the instrument/weapon used. Humans can choose to make any object a weapon – and they do. I could kill someone with a table lamp if I chose to do so. The manufacturer of the lamp is not culpable no matter how they market the lamp, I am for making that choice.

            I do appreciate your post. It illustrates how marketing has controlled the thoughts of the masses. We’re all lead; you, me, Jack. Who we listen to is our choice to make. I hope I make a good choice.

      • 0 avatar
        srh

        It’s the marketing behind it. The reaction would be the same if it were an F-350 diesel dually.

        People find correlations and assume causation based on preconceived biases (which in this case result from the marketing campaigns behind those vehicles). And correlations are awfully easy to find when n = 1.

  • avatar
    Cactuar

    FCA should ignore it just as Toyota is ignoring that its pickups are used by terrorists. Keep calm and build cars.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      “Ignore” is the keyword for this entire situation. Imagine if all people of VA town would just stay home and media wouldn’t show up. Any anti-protesters would not show up. You would have an anonymous rally. These bastards would go home disappointed that no one heard them but some police officers. Lives would be saved. Ignorance sometimes is the best method of combat.

  • avatar
    gtemnykh

    “Its marketing for the Challenger lacks even the slightest bit of a suggestion that it would be a good idea to use a Challenger as an instrument of murder. ”

    Well George Washington did charge across a battlefield at a bunch of red coats that one time. You know what else George Washington was? A slave owner. Your move racists.

    /S
    ;p

    • 0 avatar
      Driver8

      You can go anywhere with that:
      Nazi SS uniforms had a skull and cross bones insignia.
      Ergo, pirates are Nazis.
      .
      .
      Hang Johnny Depp!

      Now, let’s talk about David *Lynch*!

      /s

  • avatar
    jonsey

    I don’t care to comment on the culture war drama.

    Roadkill is not a “generic white label” take on fast N loud. Roadkill is a show about car guys working on cars. It mostly shows the technical side of hot rodding, focusing on the challenges of actually getting the Frankenstein creations they imagine to work, then showing the hooliganisms that result. Road kill is aimed at car guys.

    Fast N loud focuses on the “deal,” wads of cash, shop drama, artificial deadlines to increase shop drama, and the personalities of the characters on the show. The technical aspects of hot rodding are mostly glossed over. Fast N loud is for people who want some drama with a small side of cars.

    Therefore, fast N loud is the generic white label version of road kill, not the other way around.

    • 0 avatar
      gtemnykh

      Yeah I was going to say, Roadkill is pretty freaking awesome about actually showing more of the ‘guts’ of the builds, and on (somewhat) low budgets. I was miffed when they just threw their hands up and threw a shiny new carb on the junkyard Mustang most recently, that was lame.

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    Do I blame Dodge? Heck no. Weapon of opportunity, it could have just as easily been an F150.

    Does the video of the car ramming the crowd kill any desire I had for a Challenger? Yes.

    • 0 avatar
      LS1Fan

      The problem isnt the car used.

      Radical SJWs tend to hate anything that alludes to or promotes male-preference thinking. Like the author says,had it been a Civic or Accord or F150 there’d be little reaction. But Dodge is basically the “rolling patriarchy”.
      If your goal is to own the macho-est car or truck on a budget, Dodge has you covered. If you’re Mr Moneybags and think German cars are for kale eating wusses,sir right this way to your Hellcat.

      That brand identity makes Dodge a target for the radicals in a way no other automaker would be.

      • 0 avatar
        PrincipalDan

        Speaking of patriarchy, well then it’s a good thing he wasn’t eating Hardee’s or Carl’s Jr while at the wheel. /s

      • 0 avatar
        Arthur Dailey

        @LS1Fan: an interesting concept.

        And yes some brands do market themselves to certain segments of the population.

        Therefore becoming readily identified with that segment/demographic.

        For example Volvos and ‘academia’, BMW’s and ‘market traders’, Subarus and a particular sexual ‘identity’.

        So if an orange General Lee Charger had been used, then there could be an identification between the marketing and the ‘weapon’. The question is does someone acquire a 2010 6 cylinder Charger because they identify that particular vehicle as a symbol of the Confederacy?

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          I’d say the General Lee joins stuff like Amos ‘n Andy, the Japanese guy in “Breakfast at Tiffany’s” and a host of other pop-culture stuff that was perfectly acceptable at one point in time, but became entirely unacceptable.

          I bet that these days, most southerners would be just as uncomfortable with all the negative southern-folks stereotypes in that show as black folks or liberals would be with a car flying the confederate flag.

          Society changes and evolves. Pop culture does the same thing.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      Yep. Rationally, the idea that Dodge was somehow responsible for this is beyond stupid.

      But it may hurt them all the same.

      If I were in PR with their company, I’d consider making a donation to the families of the people who were hurt. It’d be a damn decent gesture, if you ask me.

      • 0 avatar
        sgeffe

        Keep that off of social media though. It would just continue to fan flames.

        Hopefully the greater lesson is to just ignore these fvcktards when they come around. Don’t counter-protest or anything. Leave town if need be. That way, they’re just preaching to an empty church.

        The Toledo area has had its dustups with these vermin before, including a time a small riot was incited, and a neighborhood bar, someone’s life’s work, was torched. The same turds came back through the area maybe ten years ago, and nothing except a couple local news items.

        They haven’t been back since.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          Yep, I would LOVE to see these morons march on totally empty streets.

          Or streets full of people laughing hysterically at them.

          One of the great comforts in my life is that somewhere in hell, Adolf Hitler is tied down, “Clockwork Orange” style, and watching “Springtime for Hitler” – directed by a Jew – for eternity.

          You want to REALLY troll these morons? Laugh at them.

    • 0 avatar
      Garrett

      It was a V6 version.

      No self-respecting car fanatic desires one, they simply choose to settle for it because they couldn’t get the V8.

  • avatar
    LS1Fan

    FCA needs to respond. Staying silent legitimizes the SJWs.

    Dodge needs to get on social media and make it clear they’re no more liable for this hate crime then Toyota is for making Hilux pickup trucks used by ISIS.

    The only thing relevant is the trial and sentencing of the Actor,not the car he drove or the company who paved the street he drove on.

    • 0 avatar

      Responding at all legitimizes whatever view you support. Silence is the only answer – like the whiny child who will *stop* whining if you ignore him.

      He just has to get bored first.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        Rationally, I know that.

        But as a Jew, it becomes hard to respond rationally to these kinds of marches. For me, this isn’t an intellectual exercise – my family and six million other Jews ended up in gas chambers because of the kind of ideology on display there. It’s about as real and personal as it gets.

        Ditto for black folks.

        The marchers knew this…indeed, they counted on it.

        In a perfect world, therefore, yes, they should be met with silence. Then again, in a perfect world, these morons would grow up and get a life.

        Human nature sucks sometimes.

        • 0 avatar

          As a Jew I feel far more threatened by the Jew-haters among the leftist totalitarians on campus and the Antifa thugs and by jihadis than I am of a few hundred morons going “sieg heil” and wearing sheets. Think about it, they had a gathering of the Aryan tribes from all across the country and all they could get was a few hundred dolts with tiki torches. They’re not even good Nazis. Cut-rate Aryans, as Peter Himmelman sings.

          One reason why neo-Nazis deny the Holocaust is not that they really believe it didn’t happen, it’s because they know their denial causes pain to Jews. Golda Meir said that you’re only intimidated when you let people intimidate you.

          Jew-haters are an existential reality of Jews. They’re a promise from God (look in the Passover Haggadah). Someone will rise up in every generation to destroy the Jews, but God will protect them. It’s not the best deal in the world, but Jews keep taking it, circumcising their sons and marrying their daughters off under chuppahs.

          When I come across Jew-haters, I tell them that I know they want me and my grandkids dead, but I’m cool with that.

          I’m going to let some crazy person (believing in lies, contrary to reality, is a sign of insanity) take away my joy.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “Leftist totalitarians”…

            You mean, leftists like me and the approximately 70-80% of Jews that identify as leftist?

            I guess we’re all self loathing Jews…or maybe we’re too stupid to figure out that leftism is anti-Jewish. Or something like that.

            Either way, I sure hope that whatever dittohead dreamed that one – and the just-as-clever “black folks are stupid for voting Democratic because Democrats want them enslaved on welfare” trope – got his jollies.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Say whatever you all will, but I don’t like the extreme politics because it divides what are normally the fairly agreeable folks on this site.

            Divide and conquer is a plan, don’t fall for it.

          • 0 avatar
            ToddAtlasF1

            “Either way, I sure hope that whatever dittohead dreamed that one – and the just-as-clever “black folks are stupid for voting Democratic because Democrats want them enslaved on welfare” trope – got his jollies.”

            LBJ said he was going to do it and then the Democrats did it. They had to pivot after the Republicans struck down Jim Crow and voted for Civil Rights. Welfare and family destruction is how they made blacks an asset to the Democrats after they failed to destroy blacks through frontal assault. I suppose you believe only crazies think Margaret Sanger didn’t build most of the Planned Parenthoods in minority and immigrant areas to provide mammograms too.

            My Marxist professors spent much of their time talking about ‘the rule of unintended consequences’ to explain how every progressive initiative did more harm than good accidentally. Well, progressives aren’t dropping any of their ‘failed’ ideas from their playbooks. Are you as dim as they pretend to be?

          • 0 avatar
            ruckover

            Todd, I am sorry if you meant your comment as ironic/funny and I have missed it, but I was wondering when the Republicans overturned Jim Crow and voted for civil rights. I also missed when LBJ said that he was going to enslave African Americans to welfare to become virtual pawns for the Democratic Party.

        • 0 avatar
          joeaverage

          I would have felt better had the police and fire brigades given the racists a taste of the 60s with fire hoses aimed at the racists.

  • avatar
    scott25

    This weekend pretty much just confirmed the stereotypes both sides of the American political spectrum hold of each other. I don’t even know how the division of that country is going to be resolved.

    • 0 avatar
      gtemnykh

      Yeah I feel like these clashes just further ingrain the participants’ views of each other.

      White nationalist guy protesting what he sees as white genocide being perpetrated is faced by a fringe leftist holding a sign saying “Your grandchildren will be BROWN” (I actually saw a photo of that). Now you have the white nationalist guy that is even more cemented in his views. Not exactly the venue for dialog and understanding viewpoints.

      • 0 avatar
        smartascii

        Except that the white guy is wrong, his premise is faulty, and tolerating its expression in the form taken in Charlottesville is deadly. What they did, according to First-Amendment case law, is illegal (Brandenburg vs. Ohio says free speech may not be limited by the government unless it is “directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action.”) Viewed in that light, what you’re advocating is dialog and understanding viewpoints with criminals. I’m not blind to the fact that our country can’t work well with the kinds of divisions we face, and that a give-and-take dialogue between grown-ups might help, but there’s a limit to what constitutes valid expression, and this is way past the line.

        • 0 avatar
          gtemnykh

          “Except that the white guy is wrong”

          And the needlessly violent antifa (comprised of a lot of white guys, worth noting) is somehow less wrong with their insane advocacy of that “your grandkids will be brown” premise? Anyone who surmises anything about my future family makeup is deeply disturbing to me, and indeed “way past the line.” In my assessment of the situation as it unfolded, both sides got violent when the police routed the “unite the right” crowd right past counter-protesters and both sides started throwing things at each other (glass bottles included). I stand to be corrected on that.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Antifa is just as stupid and wrong as the white power morons. But it operates on a different scale. And it doesn’t have a 50-year history of murder and political violence, like the white power folks do. And much of that history is recent. Tim McVeigh bought into the whole “white power” thing.

            In Europe, the white power folks caused a world war, put six million Jews in gas chambers, and murdered tens of millions of other people.

            Nothing here makes antifa right. But it’s clearly far less of a threat than the white power movement.

          • 0 avatar
            gtemnykh

            “history of murder and political violence, like the white power folks do.”

            Might want to dust off the history books, leftist revolutions have left literal millions dead. Class warfare supplanted by hardcore identity/gender politics, but the same basic attack on existing institutions such as nuclear family and religion. The Spanish Civil War is a really good case study, and even the Wiemar Republic and the warring right wing Freikorps and more radical of the left wing Communists/Marxists. I suspect that as long as the economy stays even halfway decent these fringe groups in the US will stay fairly small numbers wise (with an over-representation on social media), but if things degrade with more dissatisfied “normal” folks drawn in, things certainly have the potential to spiral out of control.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “your grandkids will be brown”

            I’m curious, how is that *insane*?

            and how is that *wrong* in any way shape or form?

          • 0 avatar
            PrincipalDan

            Racism and stupidity do come from all sides.

            My daughter is Caucasian, Mexican, Navajo, and Japanese. She receives the free healthcare that all tribal members do (as does her mother.)

            The idiotic things that come out of peoples mouths when she visits Indian Health Service because she doesn’t “look” Native.

          • 0 avatar
            gtemnykh

            “I’m curious, how is that *insane*?

            and how is that *wrong* in any way shape or form?”

            Gloating about the demographic demise of a particular race in a particular country? Nope, nothing wrong there at all in any shape or form!

            :/

            Do you see how if I paraded around bragging about how whites would “breed out” blackness out of America, I would rightfully be castigated, ostracized, and publicly shamed?

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “Might want to dust off the history books, leftist revolutions have left literal millions dead.”

            If you’ve dusted your history books off, you know that’s true of right wing revolutions and coup d’etats as well. Plenty of them in history to talk about if you’d like.

            Shall we start with history’s most famous leftist hater, Der Fuhrer himself? He had some rather choice words for our communist friends in Russia, as I recall.

            At some point, people are going to wise up and stop bringing things like communism and Nazism into American politics. They have nothing to do with American leftism or rightism at all. It’s just dumb noise.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            @ Lou:

            At least he’s being honest – this is about some white folks being afraid or concerned that people of their “race” are becoming a minority.

            …as if “white folks” are a race to begin with (when in fact we’re all the result of a LOT of race-mixing), and somehow reproducing with other races diminishes one race…

            It’s all laughable…but some people do take this seriously.

          • 0 avatar
            gtemnykh

            “If you’ve dusted your history books off, you know that’s true of right wing revolutions and coup d’etats as well. Plenty of them in history to talk about if you’d like.”

            I didn’t say they haven’t anywhere in my post, I was making the point that the radical left has at-least as high of a body count to their ‘credit’ as the radical right. That’s the common theme, they’re radicals after all.

            And I full agree with this:
            “At some point, people are going to wise up and stop bringing things like communism and Nazism into American politics. They have nothing to do with American leftism or rightism at all. It’s just dumb noise.”

            Just like the idiots with swastika flags truly have no real appreciation/understanding of what exactly they’re advocating for, neither do the dregs parading around the hammer and sickle. It’s all shock value without having experienced what they’re flying a flag for.

            In my family we had men that fought to defend Moscow in the winter of ’41 (MIA), defended the outskirts of Stalingrad in the fall of ’42 (POW, survived), defended Leningrad during the blockade (survived), and participated in the final push into Germany (wounded in Battle of Koenigsberg, survived). To see either of the flags on American soil in any capacity aside from historical reenactment is utterly bizarre to me.

          • 0 avatar
            gtemnykh

            “…as if “white folks” are a race to begin with (when in fact we’re all the result of a LOT of race-mixing), and somehow reproducing with other races diminishes one race…”

            So are there races or no? Your statement seems to contradict itself.

            If the counter protester was holding a sign saying something to the effect of “can’t we all get along” or “we’re all one people” or something of that sort then they’d have some sort of moral superiority to lay claim to. But to specifically call out that difference in skin tone (call it race, call it ethnicity, whatever other identity term) and to imply the “triumph” of one over the other, that to me is a pretty sick angle to take on the whole thing. Curious to hear others’ takes.

            The Truth About Identity Politics? LOL never know where I’ll end up with TTAC comment threads, but that’s what I love about this place.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            @gte:
            Tomorrow’s kids *are* going to be brown (or more brown, if you will). Why? Because there is a higher percentage of darker skinned folks for the lighter skinned ones to get busy with. Hence, the kids are gonna be brown (or browner, if you will).

            It’s neither wrong nor insane. It’s a statement of demographic fact.

            A lot of folks are apparently scared of that, but I don’t get why. As long as those browner kids remember what America’s all about, we’re going to be OK. In fact, the key to all these different races “getting along” might well be to reproduce with each other.

            In that sense, maybe the future of the whole world is being written here, with browner kids.

          • 0 avatar
            Ihatejalops

            @FreedMike

            “Shall we start with history’s most famous leftist hater, Der Fuhrer himself? He had some rather choice words for our communist friends in Russia, as I recall.”

            Dude, seriously? The “right” in America typically refers to people who believe in limited government, little taxes and a strict interpretation of the constitution. At no point was Der Fuherer “right wing”, at least not in the American sense. In fact, since his party was the National Socialist German Workers’ Party, which really is left wing in American politics, he basically just didn’t like communists or the Russians. A lot of people do not like Marxism (it doesn’t work) since it leads to, well, fascism and totalitarianism.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Program

            Points 9 – 21 are typically part of the Democratic party platform and probably policies you agree with.

            I know you think you’re a smart guy, but 5 seconds of research might do you good before you try to tell people they’re wrong. In fact, you usually come off as an idiot because of your ignorance.

          • 0 avatar
            gtemnykh

            “It’s a statement of demographic fact.”

            Again, it’s the gloating over that fact that is disturbing. If the roles were reversed with anything/anybody else it would be considered racism of the highest order.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @gtemnykh –
            Was that person gloating?
            Perhaps agitating but gloating?
            I don’t think so.
            The USA Census Bureau estimates that Non-Hispanic whites will be a minority by 2043. That is 26 years away. In Canada that will occur 7 years earlier in 2036.

            There are those that are terrified by that fact.

            “The term “white race” or “white people” entered the major European languages in the later 17th century, in the context of racialized slavery and unequal status in European colonies. Description of populations as “white” in reference to their skin color predates this notion and is found in Greco-Roman ethnography and other ancient sources. Scholarship on race generally distinguishes the modern concept from pre-modern descriptions of collective difference.”

            “White” isn’t a race. The same can be said for any other skin tone.

          • 0 avatar
            ToddAtlasF1

            Anyone that thinks the 94 million victims of communism aren’t germane to US politics has no idea what happened in Charlottesville this weekend. Anyone who thinks that stopping the exercise of someone’s constitutional rights is justifiable because they disagree with their ideas is un-American in the extreme. I am not a white supremacist. They don’t interest me, and they wouldn’t have a mixed-ethnicity Catholic like me if I was interested. There are an almost incalculable number of identity groups that I want nothing to do with after eight years of the great divider. As Americans we have to tolerate one another. If that isn’t enough for you, well the open border works both ways. Nobody alive today was forced to come here, unless if was one of the child sex trafficking victims that the left is terrified Trump will keep freeing. Everyone else can suck it up and live by our constitution. That goes for police officers, and inbreds, and even academics.

        • 0 avatar
          285exp

          smartascii:

          “What they did, according to First-Amendment case law, is illegal (Brandenburg vs. Ohio says free speech may not be limited by the government unless it is “directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action.”) Viewed in that light, what you’re advocating is dialog and understanding viewpoints with criminals.”

          No, you misunderstand Brandenburg. That exception to free speech is very narrow, and says that only direct calls to imminent violence aren’t protected. White dude is free to spout his ignorant views, because if you restrict free speech based on how violently some listeners might react to it, you’re basically saying that the hecklers veto determines what speech is acceptable and what is not. Yes, there’s a limit to what constitutes valid expression, but just declaring some people criminals based on their viewpoints is a very dangerous position.

          Free speech is easy to support when you agree with it, but we don’t need to protect popular speech.

          What we had in Charlottesville was two groups of armed idiots looking for a fight and, unsurprisingly, finding one, and law enforcement failing miserably in their duty to keep said groups of idiots apart.

    • 0 avatar
      ash78

      Yeah, I just take comfort in that I never encounter either kind in my daily life. This is like the 1% extreme from either end of the spectrum, but because of the tragedies and news coverage, we all slowly begin to believe this is the norm, then we begin to accept it as reality. That’s exactly what propagandists want from us.

      I rolled my eyes when I heard the KKK (et al) were going to hold a demonstration. The KKK has never been much more than a loose array of disparate groups pretending to have some order and discipline. They have always thrived on media/psych impact, not “real” impact. One photo of a lynching or burning cross is what they thrive on.

      Then I rolled my eyes when I heard the park had been renamed from “Lee” to “Emancipation” (because I couldn’t think of a more knee-jerk possible name change than that…never mind the discussion about whether its appropriate to honor a military leader who didn’t opt to defend slavery, but to defend Virginia and her allies, but that’s lost in most of the discussion and always comes across as apologist drivel…)

      Then I rolled my eyes when I heard other groups were bringing people in from all over the country to protest the demonstration. This calls attention to, and can even subconsciously legitimize, the right-wing issues. Naturally the media descends on it, giving the “alt right” 100x more publicity than they ever expected.

      And then these horrible tragedies happened and the local cops are dragged into the discussion, years of lawsuits will undoubtedly occur between the various parties, and now everyone involved seems so much more emboldened than if we had just ignored the Nazis.

      Epic facepalm?

      • 0 avatar
        Arthur Dailey

        @IHateJalops: That argument was debunked long ago. You can call yourself or your party whatever you want, that does not make it true. I can call myself Brad Pitt II that doesn’t make me Brad Pitt.

        The Nazi party were definitively ‘right wing’. They spent more than a decade in street battles with left wing groups. The Nazis were backed by the industrialists of Germany, as a means to ensuring that the leftists were defeated.

        • 0 avatar
          Ihatejalops

          @arthur

          Hi Arthur,

          This was not “debunked”. I provided a link to their manifesto and they were not “conservative,” considering they believe in state owned enterprises and all of the things listed below. Is it hard to read. Please provide the debunking.

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            @IHateJalops:
            To start “The industrialists who led the way were two huge German firms, I.G. Farben and Krupp. Leaders of both of companies were among the few civilians who were later charged with war crimes at the Nuremberg Tribunals after World War II.
            According to Robert Jackson, the former Supreme Court Justice and chief U.S. prosecutor at Nuremberg, “[T]he industrialists…became so enthusiastic that they set about to raise three million Reichsmarks [worth about $30 million today] to strengthen and confirm the Nazi Party in power.”

            Much more if you read some of the posts near the end. Or study more on the rise of the Fascists in different nations. Remember they came to power in more nations than just Germany.

  • avatar
    cdotson

    Best case solution is as you suggest to ignore the chorus of whine.

    Should there be a crack in the facade the next action should be to bury the SJW snowflakes in libel lawsuits for implying that FCA had done anything in any way to encourage either the actions or motivations of an individual who had purchased one of their products.

  • avatar
    FBS

    Was there a press photographer at Ohio State who took a series of iconic pictures of the Civic which then appeared on the front pages of newspapers nationwide?

    • 0 avatar
      geozinger

      I was curious about that, too. Unfortunately (for Chrysler), the car and driver at the center of this incident was clearly filmed performing the crime. I don’t recall seeing video of the Ohio State attack.

      I wonder if the reaction had been the same if he would have used a minivan?

    • 0 avatar

      With a few clicks, you can find many press photographs and stills from security and traffic videos of Abdul Razak Ali Artan’s Honda Civic both before and after his attack. Whether or not they were “iconic”, I suppose depends on how many newspaper editors thought the photos fit the narrative they were trying to get across at the time.

      It seems to me that many of the people, including those in the media, calling what happened in Charlottesville an act of domestic terrorism have been virtually silent when automobiles have been driven into crowds in London, Paris, and Jerusalem.

      • 0 avatar
        sirwired

        The media has been “silent” about cars being driven into crowds abroad? I’ve seen plenty of US press coverage about all three of those events. Not as much as Charlottesville, but I doubt our little fracas is going to still be on the front page of the London newspapers next week either, while it’s still going to be scoring stories here.

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      I don’t know if the OSU attack had any “iconic” images of the Honda Civic, but when Elliot Rodger went on his rampage his 3-Series coupe was all over the media and was meme’d by the angry incel crowd, but BMW didn’t need to respond by publically “disavowing” anything.

  • avatar
    cleek

    Identity politics certainly does scale.

  • avatar
    olddavid

    Sometimes a car is just a car.

  • avatar

    “There’s a lot of evidence that we’re getting too dumb.”

    It’s so nice when an author provides himself as evidence of his own assertion.

    ” You can drive one off the dealer lot with more than 800 horsepower, an absurd figure for a civilian-operated vehicle”

    Note how the author apparently has no problem with letting state agents drive 800 horsepower cars, but a high powered “civilian-operated vehicle”?? Oh noes!

    • 0 avatar
      Sigivald

      One wonders what 800hp has to do with the nutbag ramming the crowd, anyway; it wasn’t a Hellcat he was *driving*, was it?

      I mean, if the idea was really to Embody Aggressive ‘Merika hatemurders, wouldn’t he have used an F350 diesel with duallys?

      “Because that’s as Other as I can possibly imagine from here!”

      (On the main topic, “writer at The Daily Show” explains a lot about the level of thought and analysis going into her demand for ritual seppuku.

      Outrage-generation for a living (combined with ironic-faux-clever presented as Deeply Insightful Obvious Wisdom) makes for poor analysis and decision-making.

      N.B. Not even in a partisan way, inherently; the “right” outrage-generating snarky-smarmy types are equally bad at analysis as the “left”.)

  • avatar
    Land Ark

    I’ve been listening to the Tony Kornheiser podcast for the last month or so and I started from the first episode. One of my main takeaways from it is regarding society and their ability to be totally outraged at something one day and then totally forget about it the next.

    I’m reminded of the nutjob who went to the DC pizza place searching for kids that were being used as sex slaves by Hilary Clinton and John Podesta.
    Everyone went out of their minds about it. It was one of the tops stories around here. And here we are 8 months later and I’d bet most people don’t even remember it happening. The outrage cycle moves so fast months seem like years.

    So yes, it’s best to ignore everything if you’re Dodge. Give it a few days and everyone will have moved on to another scapegoat.

  • avatar
    dwford

    People get all worked up about a few ignorant people tweeting, somehow it makes news. In reality IT IS A FEW PEOPLE MOUTHING OFF ON TWITTER. Who gives a flying …

    Dodge should rightly ignore the dozen? complainers tweeting at them.

  • avatar
    geozinger

    Anyway you look at those scenes from Charlottesville, they are horrible. My first though was utter horror. The second thought that came to my mind was to wonder how long before someone would start blaming FCA for this in some way. I think it demonstrates my cynicism for so much of contemporary life.

    Now, the Chally has become an icon and not the one FCA wanted. It wouldn’t stop me from buying one, though. It just won’t be painted black.

  • avatar
    dal20402

    **NOTE: THIS COMMENT IN NO WAY IMPLIES THAT FCA IS RESPONSIBLE FOR NAZIS**

    I think it says something about all of us that, in the last decade and a half or so, the ticket to sales for automakers has been steadily increasing levels of aggression, anger, and machismo. Even economy cars have to have snarl faces, and anything remotely sporty or trucky has to look at all times like someone just killed its mother and it’s out for bloody vengeance. The class of vehicle that is de rigueur for any male in most of the country usually has a grille that looks like a weapon and is higher than most people’s heads. Mazda lost sales and suffered endless mockery for daring to make cars with a smiley face.

    The most exhausting thing about modern politics is that the anger is cranked up to 11 over trivial stuff, meaning that people don’t have anything extra to give, or any way to unite in anger, when something happens that is truly anger-worthy — such as a bunch of Nazis openly parading around a city in Virginia.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      Nothing new there, I’d say…I mean, how long have automakers been selling machismo? LONG time.

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      I don’t disagree with your entire comment but the modern Mopars (and muscle cars in general) are pretty campy. If you drive one, you’ve got to be in on the joke.

      A big bright orange coupe with a hood scoop and badges depicting a bumblebee wearing blast goggles isn’t “angry and out for blood” any more than the Adam West Batman series was violent.

    • 0 avatar
      Garrett

      Not just cars.

      Everything.

      Every movie has to be a gritty and edgy take on whatever. If they made a Care Bears movie, it’d probably end up being as dark as Sin City.

      Music has the loudness war/loss of dynamic range thing going on.

      Not sure what happened to the idea of being a relatively peaceful person, who doesn’t seek to utterly destroy anyone who disagrees with them, but it needs to come back in style.

      Everyone is letting their bloodlust become a rationale for getting rid of the rights that people have fought and died to uphold. Our nation was created with the idea that people should be free, the government should be limited, that the popularity of an idea doesn’t determine its validity, and that we follow the rule of law and don’t give in to mob mentality.

      • 0 avatar
        raph

        You can probably chart the increase in anger with the decline of the “American dream” and the curves probably mirror each other as time marches on.

        Movies and music and TV are just responding to the general vibe of people today who are angry and growing ever more insular.

    • 0 avatar
      joeaverage

      I agree with dal20402 and garrett.

      All this “in your face” ‘Murica! culture can be too much of a good thing.

      Cue the chest beating guys about America being feminized…

      Frankly I think us men have fucked up the world. I’d be perfectly happy with a world that calmed down and went fishing or decided to wash the family car.

      • 0 avatar
        joeaverage

        And as the “American Dream” declines, how will things go as automation continues to rise?

        Will these people get more and more angry? And at whom? The Hispanics?

        Seems to me it would be the corporate overlords who want to maximize their profits with robots and simplify labor complexities (robots don’t call in sick or complain about doing the same task for years on end).

        Politically it seems very short sighted to scapegoat these problems off on some other country or ethnic group unless we want to be extremely protectionist and start putting high tariffs on imported goods (which limits the world’s motivation to buy our exports).

        And hopefully POTUS and GOp don’t want to start yet ANOTHER war under the heading of “national security” that helps a big group of Americans forget our local/regional problems. If security is the real issue then 500+ anti-missile systems installed around the Pacific would be a better option wouldn’t it? If the systems are 50% accurate then ONE of them would be successful – right?

  • avatar
    sirwired

    Violent White Supremacists Suck, and Violent Protesters from the Other End of the Spectrum Suck. People looking for ways in which they can be offended suck.

    But, on the balance of things, I’d say “Driving a car into a crowd of people you don’t like” is more than a bit more outrage-worthy than “Being offended for completely stupid reasons.”

    (And people looking to be offended for completely stupid reasons is totally A Thing at both ends of the political spectrum… ever hear a right-wing kook complain about a history textbook he/she feels to be insufficiently worshipful of American History because it left some of the bad parts in?)

    • 0 avatar
      psarhjinian

      “ever hear a right-wing kook complain about a history textbook”

      History, no. Science, yes.

      • 0 avatar
        sirwired

        Well, objecting to a science textbook that correctly goes over evolution is out of complete and utter scientific illiteracy (which is disturbing enough.) But objecting to a history textbook for mentioning events like the Trail of Tears or that Thomas Jefferson owned slaves isn’t ignorance, it’s Outrage Politics.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          …and indeed, there are parents in my district who objected to just that sort of thing.

          My oldest daughter didn’t even learn that there was such a thing as the Trail of Tears until she got to college. Damn liberal professors!

          • 0 avatar
            chuckrs

            Actually, damn under-educated (and under-educating) K-12 teachers. At least I assume it was a liberal prof who introduced your daughter to the Trail of Tears. I hope he assigned The Empire of the Summer Moon as a counter-weight, too. The Cherokees were horribly mistreated; the Comanches, well, they terrified everyone who came in contact with them – Spanish, Anglos, Apaches.

          • 0 avatar
            PrincipalDan

            I always keep students in the know about which group armed which group against which other group in history. It made it easy to see which groups were the most feared by their neighbors.

            My students were 7th graders BTW.

          • 0 avatar
            joeaverage

            Here in the Bible Belt it seems the teachers walk a fairly narrow path so as not to offend SOMEBODY. I was in school 40 years ago and there was too much emphasis put on Pilgrim stories and the white man’s POV and not nearly enough (any?) on the POV of anyone else.

            We try to educate our children beyond the school house.

  • avatar
    pbx

    It’s got to be tough to ignore ‘The whole thing is a conspiracy by Dodge to up sales?’ or accusing the woman killed as ‘being too fat to dodge a Dodge’.

    Being the punchline for sick ‘jokes’ has more staying power than a twitter flurry.

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    I really do feel sorry for FCA and the position it finds itself in.

    The problem is the media and not necessarily the news media can take some ownership here. Remember the “General”, a really nice Dodge with the Confederate Flag on it? Also many other shows and movies depicting muscle cars and pickups as the “White” mans preferred form of transport. And these are based on Southern Hospitality.

    Remember Trump with his dissenting, divisive and inflammatory racist comments regarding all and his support for the downtrodden white guy.

    I’m sorry for all of this. You guys voted for this by the TV programs, people elected and what some deem as “Freedom”. Unfortunately many of these types of right wingers like the KKK are not believers of Freedom.

    Their distorted view of Freedom costs lives and even affects businesses like FCA.

    How can one declare freedom by taking freedom away from others?

    I do believe this problem to be more of an American problem. People seem to be so self centred and selfish at the expense of others.

    Freedom?

    • 0 avatar

      Now I know what happens when a monkey gets ahold of a keyboard.

    • 0 avatar
      Ihatejalops

      @Big AL

      Huh? Freedom requires the extremes otherwise you’d have the constant encroaching of speech as who determines “offensive” comments become more restrictive. Do you not understand this?

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        Ihatejalops,
        I believe freedom is a right.

        But like anything in life it isn’t a given.

        I view radicals, like these knobs like children.

        Freedom only works when you respect others. These people are children and need to be treated as such. Take their freedom away, that’s how children are managed.

        • 0 avatar
          Ihatejalops

          @BigAL

          That’s not how freedom works. You don’t need “respect” for anyone, that’s the beauty of freedom, you’re able to speak your mind. There may be societal consequences, but the real power (government) can’t do anything. You don’t take their freedom away, that’s how repressive regimes exist. But you’re from a foreign country, so I wouldn’t expect you to understand our culture or how freedom really works. Don’t you understand that every dystopian novel starts with socialism and people of your ilk?

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            Freedom has limits. One cannot fully exercise one’s freedom if it impinges upon someone else’s freedom. Someone on this blog once said, “Freedom to swing one’s fists ends at the tip of my nose.”

            Free speech does allow for more extremes, especially in the USA.

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            @ Ihatejalops: Current evidence points to the fact that citizens of BAFO’s country currently have more personal freedoms than do those living in the USA.

    • 0 avatar
      joeaverage

      Yes “freedom” as a theme of highest importance in the USA can sometimes be at the expense of someone else. Sometimes there are legal barriers to keep the “other person” in check, sometimes it is just social pressure. I’m a big supporter of “live and let live” and don’t pollute unnecessarily.

      I’m not worried about existing VW TDIs, recreational vehicles or vintage vehicles. ;)

      Freedom but you better marry the opposite gender.
      freedom but you better be the right religion.
      Freedom but you better know your place based on your gender, ethnicity or sexual orientation.
      Freedom but whatever the new topic of the week is.
      Freedom but you better not try to regulate this thing that offends me or impacts my profit stream in any way. Examples would be pollution or land development.

      The GOP enthusiasts lecture folks about snowflakes but it seems the folks on the right are pretty dang sensitive about various topics themselves. Better not say “Happy Holidays” come Christmas time. Better not question whether divorce has a bigger impact on families than homosexuality. It IS a big deal whether two dudes are loving it up in their own bedroom but not a big deal if heterosexuals are acting ridiculous and obnoxious in public.

      Endless double standards by folks on both sides of the political spectrum. Amazing how those folks can only remember or acknowledge the missteps of their political or cultural opposites.

      I listened to a GOP senator this morning rattle on about Barack Obama’s DACA executive order being illegal and not seeking Congressional approval. Never mind that the GOP voiced that they were blocking anything and everything the guy tried to push through congress. Amazing what the GOP blamed and continues to blame on Barack Obama. Amazing what DJT has blamed on BHO over the years. I suppose we are supposed to look past DJT’s own choices and behavior, blinded by admiration, etc.

      The GOP’s inability to moderate their politics and speak objectively will keep me from voting for them despite being a registered Republican.

      I don’t think the GOP is any more useful than the UAW at this point in history. Partly b/c their purpose is gone and partly because they haven’t adapted to 2017 to remain useful.

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    You know, if I were in charge at Dodge, I’d do two things:

    1) Hit Monster.com, because Dodge has been fornicated for a LONG time now.
    2) Make a generous donation to the families of those who were affected by this.

    A donation would be a very kind gesture from a company that’s probably sickened at the sight of one of its’ products being used like that.

    • 0 avatar
      thegamper

      I think a great way for Dodge to do something that in no way shape or form lends any credence to these morons who somehow think Dodge’s testosterone fueled advertising is responsible for this (as a payment to the families might be construed) would be to:

      Commission a sculpture(s) of civil rights heros to replace the sculpture of General Lee that the protest centered around.

      And hope nobody drives by in a replica of the Dukes of Hazard General Lee flying the stars and bars during the unveiling. Just occurred to me how unfortunate that bit of pop culture is in this case.

  • avatar
    thegamper

    I blame the Dodge Challenger for all the racism in the world. Prior to last weekend, I blamed racists, but now the Dodge Challenger for sure.

  • avatar
    mmreeses

    I see that this universe has hit peak irony.

    I definitely would like to see a VW used to pull down a Confederate statue. As I believe VW was founded in 1967 by Hans Beatnikschmidt in his mom’s Salzburg garage.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      Even more ironic…based on what history teaches us about Robert E. Lee, he’d have probably puked at the idea of someone commemorating him with a statue.

      He was, in fact, *deeply* conflicted about fighting for the confederacy, as were many other soldiers on both sides.

      • 0 avatar

        While the fighting was still going on, Lincoln, Sherman and others talked about being magnanimous in victory. Perhaps it was a devil’s bargain but tolerating Southern reverence for their Civil War dead and heroes was part of the price paid for restoring the Union.

        If they knew they wouldn’t have had Lee on their side, would the South have seceded? Now that’s an alternate history to write: Lee serving the North and Sherman serving the South.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          Perhaps, but that was also at a time when the people most aggrieved by the confederacy were second class citizens. They aren’t anymore. And they have every right to be offended by statues of confederate “war heroes.”

          Confederates may have fought bravely. They may have fought well. They may have even fought gallantly. But in the end, the same can be said of a lot of people who fought for Germany in World War II. They all fought for the wrong cause…and lost. Thank God.

          People don’t accept this anymore. Nor should they.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @FreedMike – you raise an extremely valid point. Which side was staking out the moral high ground? In the case of the white supremacists, neo-nazi’s, and KKK, they can’t make that claim even though they believe they can!

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            What is even more hypocritical among those carrying the Bars & Stars is that the original Confederates fought to destroy the Union and leave the United States.

            They fought against the American Constitution.

            So they were guilty of treason, in a very tangible way.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            @Lou:

            The thing was started by a bunch of white-power types who decided to go marching and talking their s**t in a city where 30% of the inhabitants are minorities. And let’s remember this is a college town as well, so it’s going to be chock full of folks who find their message DEEPLY offensive, even if they’re not minorities.

            What are people in this town going to do when these goose stepping idiots invade their city and start their crap? As much as we’d love to see them just stay home, that’s not human nature. They’re going to get angry. They’re going to get in the faces of the people who have literally invaded their town.

            They’re gonna get outraged. And outrage leads to anger.

            The race haters were hoping for just that…and they got it.

            So…was there a “good” side and a “wrong” side? Not quite. There was a side whose anger was vile was illogical, and a side whose anger at least made some sense.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    Likewise, was Boeing complicit in the 9/11 attacks?

  • avatar
    phila_DLJ

    But WILL THE NEXT BRONCO COME IN WHITE?

  • avatar
    Car Ramrod

    Just when I think about joining twitter, I hear about more crap like this. Twitter has something like 67 million monthly active users in the US, and as far as I can tell they are there to be told to buy something, vent anger about something, or determine who is to blame for something they don’t like in a fabulously unscienetific way. No thanks.

  • avatar
    carguy

    This event was a tragedy and the vehicle used is a non issue.

    This is also only very tenuously connected the world of car enthusiasts. So trying to exploit this rather emotional situation here to get page views is not a positive indicator as to the state of TTACs editorial leadership.

    Please, let’s keep politics out of our collective enjoyment of cars.

    • 0 avatar
      Garrett

      There’s always Jalopnik if you want to avoid politics…. can’t even type that with a straight face.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      A car figured prominently in this tragedy; it’s at least worth discussing.

      I don’t believe the article was presented to generate clicks; it simply addresses something most people here would have noticed.

      And – as has been discussed endlessly before – TTAC cannot and will not avoid politics as it relates to cars. Should we also not discuss the CAFE debate, EV subsidies, autonomous vehicles, bailouts, or safety regulations?

    • 0 avatar
      Secret Hi5

      JB wrote:
      “In other words, some of these people think Dodge should apologize for the Challenger’s existence.”

      I hope this article’s premise isn’t simply based on the tweets of “some people.” One can find all kinds of ridiculous views online.

      • 0 avatar
        carguy

        @Secret Hi5: That is exactly my point. There are always “some people” saying stupid things and it becoming a very common media tactic. Here is the formula:

        Step 1: Find a current controversial/emotional issue
        Step 2: Quote a stupid and inflammatory comment from a partisan troll.
        Step 3: Watch the bar fight break out in the comment section.
        Step 4: Collect advertising revenue
        Step 5: (Optional) Defend yourself by claiming that you’re doing a service to the community by hosting a public debate of the issue.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        Dodge does not need to apologize for the Challenger’s existence but they do need to mitigate the damage done to the model and brand by this incident. They should fear the chance that the Challenger could become a new symbol of oppression by the alt – Reich.

        Case in point: The swastika. In its original form it was a symbol of good luck and success. its origins are the Indian subcontinent, East Asia and Southeast Asia. What does anyone think of when they see that symbol?

        Another example is the Hummer. It was initially a proud symbol of the USA involvement in the 1st Gulf War but became a symbol of wretched excess.

  • avatar
    Kendahl

    The complainers disapprove of the Challenger itself. You wouldn’t hear a peep out of them had James Fields been driving a Prius.

  • avatar
    tylanner

    I’d love to spend all my waking hours drawing an account of the deterministic history from the big bang up through the unfortunate consequence of this man owning a V6 Challenger and committing an act that will remove any chance he had of introducing any additional toxic offspring into our collective gene pool.

    But where is the truth about cars?? I go to Yahoo if I want my Idiot Spotlight fodder.

  • avatar
    Compaq Deskpro

    As a driver of a grey V6 Challenger and a Trump voter (I wouldn’t use the word supporter), I resent the idea that masculinity is “toxic” and large American cars are distasteful. I hope FCA is able to make to this car unchanged for as long as regulations will allow.

  • avatar

    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand there it is: a crazy person writing about crazy people asking for crazy things involving other crazy people.

  • avatar
    Corollaman

    First, the General Lee and now this? How long b4 we see white Challenger drivers pulled from their cars and beat up in bad neighborhoods?

  • avatar

    This is just like the firearms debate and has resulted in immunity for firearms manufacturers from liability suits. How long until we ban vehicles as unsafe weapons of murder?

  • avatar
    zip89123

    Jena Friedman, another nut job like those counter protesters who decided to riot during a peaceful march.

  • avatar
    01 Deville

    This smug piece defending backward white nationalists does not absolve JB and the people of Ohio from their responsibility to disown the Ohio native who ran people down.

    It is is my lousy attempt at sarcasm, OK!

  • avatar
    2012JKU

    That Challenger held up well though. Drove out of there after and it looked easily repairable. I say who cares what car he was in though. He deserves to be executed for what he did.

    • 0 avatar
      Garrett

      He deserves to be put on trial, evidence presented, and a decision rendered by a jury of his peers, or a judge if he so desires. After which, if he is found guilty, the law should be faithfully applied, and a sentence proclaimed.

      I’ll leave out the issue of being pro/anti death penalty for now.

      Point is, you missed a lot of steps there. As unlikely as it is, perhaps there is a rational explanation and justification for his behavior, and when I say unlikely, I can’t imagine what it could possibly be. Still, if he wants to mount a defense, that is his right, and we should allow the wheels of justice to turn.

  • avatar
    stingray65

    Some interesting questions to contemplate:
    1. If the “crazy” Challenger driver had been a Syrian “refugee” yelling “Allahu Akbar” as he drove into a crowd of “Yankee Infidels” (aka unknown motive), or a Lesbian Google engineer running over “sexist pig” James Demore (aka workplace violence), would the car brand have been brought up in the reporting and commentary?
    2. What is the solution? Should car-makers be forced to do background checks on everyone who buys their cars (including used car buyers) to make sure they don’t sell to anyone “dangerous”?
    3. Why are 100 year old Confederate statues such a big issue in 2017 when the Civil War ended in 1865?
    4. Given the way history is taught in schools, with a focus on deleting and deemphasizing any positive contributions and accomplishments of dead white males, how many of the protesters on either side even know who Robert E. Lee or Jeff Davis or Stonewall Jackson were?
    5. How many of the counter-protesters are aware that the white supremacy movement is entirely a left-wing/Democrat invention? The KKK = all Democrats including long-time Senator Robert Byrd. National Socialism = as the name implies it is also entirely leftist. Segregation of the US Federal Government was instigated by Democrat President Woodrow Wilson. Japanese Internment Camps were ordered by Democrat President Franklin Roosevelt. Civil Rights and desegregation opposition = Democrats.
    6. How many of the counter-protesters are aware that the “evil” Republican party was formed as an anti-slavery organization and that “free the slaves” Abraham Lincoln was a Republican? How many are aware that virtually all the civil right initiatives of the 19th and 20th century have been driven by Republican efforts? Yes the first states to give women the vote were all Republican. Voting rights for blacks = Republican. LBJ Civil Rights Act = passed only because of Republican votes.

    • 0 avatar
      Arthur Dailey

      @Stingray some good and one that falls under the category of ‘fake news’ as a red herring still used by the Alt-Right despite no basis in fact.
      1. If it was your 2nd example driving a Hilux, yes it would be mentioned. Or your 2nd example driving a Subaru.
      2. No solution as not really a problem, unless your marketing is geared to a specific demographic. For example the General Lee.
      3. It should not be an issue. Remove the statue/memorials to those who were guilty of treason.
      4. True.
      5. Some good points overtaken by history. The Nazis were right wing. Your point regarding them is totally invalid and ‘fake news’. They were sponsored by industrialists to ensure the defeat of left wing parties. You can call yourself what, that does not make it true. The ‘Dixiecrats’ switched over to the Republican side decades ago. Like in Canada, the Liberals and Conservatives switched sides regarding free trade decades ago.
      6. As above. The pendulum swings. What the parties represented a century ago is not what they currently represent.

      • 0 avatar
        vaujot

        Re item 5: I thing left and right are too simple categories, here. You need at least one more dimension for liberal vs. authoritarian and probably also for attitudes towards race, minorities, religion, sexual orientation and so forth.
        I think the NSDAP’s economic policies were not particularly extreme either way. They were neither radical communists nor radical capitalists. They did have some anti-capitalistic parts in their program but their actual policies once in power weren’t actually all that extreme. What they were is racist, anti-semitic, militarist and authoritarian.
        And I think they were supported less by the industrialists/big business (who’s leaders tended to be scarred away by anti-semitism) but more by the small and midsized businesses (of which there are many in Germany).

      • 0 avatar
        stingray65

        Arthur,
        I’m sorry, but it is you that is the biting off “fake news” apple. Yes the Nazis hated communists but only because they were close political rivals, but in point of fact their policies were very similar – nationalized health care, heavy government control of industry, high taxes, and outlawing/killing of political opposition. The “right wing” Nazi story line originates with the communist infiltrated Roosevelt administration that had to justify support for Stalinist Russia during WWII.

        Dixiecrats (1948) did not switch to Republican decades ago, they died as Democrats. Republicans didn’t start winning political office in the South until the 1980s and 90s, so it was the Dixiecrat children and grandchildren that switched parties, and primarily due to beliefs in the economic benefits of “small government”.

        With regards to white supremacy, I do agree that the pendulum swings, but only on the left. Republicans have always believed in equality before the law, while Democrats have swung from discriminating against blacks and other minorities (Jim Crow etc.) to discriminating for blacks and minorities (affirmative action, etc.), and the swinging has been purely about votes. LBJ said that passing the Civil Rights Act would “have them n—rs voting Democratic for the next two hundred years”. You cannot have equal rights and equal outcomes, and Republicans have consistently tended to favor the former and Democrats have evolved into favoring the latter.

        • 0 avatar
          Arthur Dailey

          Stingray,
          Sorry but incorrect

          Many Dixiecrats such as Strom Thurmond turned Republican circa 1964.

          As for Industrial Support of the Nazi Party, at least 2 were convicted at Nuremburg.

          “The industrialists who led the way were two huge German firms, I.G. Farben and Krupp. Leaders of both of companies were among the few civilians who were later charged with war crimes at the Nuremberg Tribunals after World War II.
          According to Robert Jackson, the former Supreme Court Justice and chief U.S. prosecutor at Nuremberg, “[T]he industrialists…became so enthusiastic that they set about to raise three million Reichsmarks [worth about $30 million today] to strengthen and confirm the Nazi Party in power.”

          From the BBC on the rise to power of the Nazis:

          They came to be seen as the only credible right-wing alternative to the left-wing parties.
          For several years the Nazis were only a small, marginal party, alongside hundreds of others. Over time, however, they became a force to be reckoned with.
          Their belief in the supremacy of the German race appealed to nationalists.
          The paramilitary groups reminded people of the comradeship they shared as soldiers.
          Hitler was charismatic and he won people over by strength of personality.
          Hitler’s hatred of Jews struck a chord with many people – they were a convenient. scapegoat, to be blamed for all Germany’s problems.
          Throughout the 1920’s good organisation, effective propaganda and rallies spread the popularity of the party all over Germany.
          The Nazis were violently opposed to Communism. The Communists believed all private ownership of land and assets was theft. This led many landowners and businessmen to support the Nazis.

          • 0 avatar
            stingray65

            Arthur,

            No party wants to be associated with the Nazis, but your use of the leftist BBC as evidence that they were right leaning is pretty weak. Of course industrialists preferred Hitler to the Communists who would likely have nationalized their firms without any compensation to the owners. But Hitler was definitely not a “small government” guy, as he put the government into many areas that had formerly been private including the development of the VW and the Silver Arrow F1 cars. The fact that many of the Nazi policies have since been enacted by left leaning governments around the world, is all the more reason the left wants to transform Hitler into a Republican/Tory/Conservative. Hitler’s hatred of the Jews also has nothing to do with right leaning policies, but was and is a widely held European issue that is most often a feature of the Left – Stalin was certainly no friend of the Jews, and modern day Labor leader Corbyn is not noted for his support of Israel.

            As for the Dixiecrats, yes S. Thurmond did switch in 1964, but he was an outlier, and the leftist mainstream media has been very effective as covering for the Democrats racist past. For a “fair and balanced” view from the right, I suggest you follow the link below for a good overview that is well documented with irrefutable facts:

            http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/300432/party-civil-rights-kevin-d-williamson

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            @ Stingray, thanks for the link.
            @ vaujot: you say that English is not your first language but I find your postings very well thought out.

            Stingray referring to the BBC perhaps the most respected media outlet in the world as left wing is no more offputting than linking to a column in the National Review an avowed ‘conservative’ publication. Both are regarded by most as very credible sources.

            As to Fascism (lets stick to that term) remember that it had many champions: Mussolini, Franco and Salazar among them.

            Their guiding principles were nationalism, a focus on ‘masculinity’, anti-liberalism, a pre-occupation with symbolism, and a belief that the system that it replaced was ‘corrupt’. Its proponents constantly preached about ‘external threats’. Often it was racist and always strictly pro ‘law and order’.

            Economically it is against free trade but supported ‘productive capitalism’ with production tied to ‘national requirements’. Independent unions were dissolved and replaced by government controlled unions.

            As for the Dixiecrats, as mentioned political parties often reverse their roles and/or beliefs. We have seen that in Canada with the various ‘free trade elections’ over the past 100 plus years.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            @stingray:

            The Democratic party CLEARLY broke with the dixiecrats after the civil rights act of 1964 passed. Before that, the south was solidly Democratic. After that, the only time the south went for a Democratic president was in the cases of Carter and Clinton, who were both southerners.

            Nixon termed that shift the “southern strategy.” It’s been the same playbook for the GOP ever since. That’s not opinion. It’s fact. And without these votes, Republicans would NOT have won the White House, or even held anything approaching a majority in Congress, for almost 50 years.

            I understand it’s hard for many Republicans to deal with the fact that the modern day dixiecrats are part of its base, and I know that this makes most Republicans no more or less bigoted than the average Democrat. You don’t want these morons in your party any more than I want the antifa or Code Pink types in mine.

            But it’s clearly caused problems for the GOP over the years. One of the most prominent ones is probably enjoying his afternoon coffee in the White House right now, as we speak. That’s an undeniable fact as well.

          • 0 avatar
            ToddAtlasF1

            LBJ changed the Democrats’ strategy for oppressing blacks. Previously, they were the party of the KKK, of Jim Crow, of the racist labor unions, and of course slavery. After LBJ, they were the party of creating dependence on handouts and treating blacks as lesser people who needed their help and approval to advance in education and business. I’d give you some LBJ quotes about exactly what the Democrats would do over the succeeding decades, but they would violate everyone’s sense of decency.

          • 0 avatar
            joeaverage

            ToddAtlasF1 – just the blacks or poor people in general? Down here in the south the poor white folks fit all the stereotypes I hear bandied around about the blacks elsewhere.

            Maybe our society needs to have more objective, and plain talking conversations about why people are poor. No dog whistle politics, no academia labels, just plain old discussion had in public.

            There are those who can’t do any better (real health problems, not self-neglect), those who won’t (lazy), and still there is a problem where once trained, some people still can’t find a job that they can stick with. Not saying that society shouldn’t help those that need help getting established but that the methods being used right now aren’t great.

            I’m watching my teenager deal with a minimum wage fast food employer than seems to think 10-12 hr shifts are reasonable on the weekends and working from 4PM to 11PM on school nights are okay. My teen will be giving notice tonight as school comes first.

  • avatar
    vaujot

    English is not my first language but I stumbled over the placement of the hyphen in “crowd of anti-white supremacist protesters”.
    This reads as if the crowd consisted of supremacists protesting against whites. Which was not the case, it was a crowd protesting against white supremacists.
    What do the English majors say, is the hyphen misplaced and should it be “crowd of anti white-supremacist protesters”?

  • avatar
    VoGhost

    Didn’t Dodge get into bed with these racists/Nazis when it partnered with CBS to emblazon its previous 2-door muscle car with a Confederate flag?

    I’m not saying that FCA corporate policy is to endorse murder of racism, but I have to wonder whether it hasn’t been courting a certain demographic for a long time.

    I mean, those 2 guys wondering whether that thing has a Hemi, were they from Berkeley? I don’t think so.

  • avatar
    VoGhost

    I have yet to see a single autonomous vehicle drive into a crowd of people whose ideas it disagreed with.

  • avatar
    stingray65

    FreedMike: Saying the Dixiecrats went Republican (the party of Lincoln and Eisenhower sending in troops to Little Rock) because the Democrats “sold out” on segregation is like saying the Republicans would vote Communist because they couldn’t repeal Obamacare. People don’t switch to a party that is even further away from their preferences. In 1968 Nixon won a few states in the South but it was Wallace taking 5 Southern states from Humphrey that explains Nixon’s narrow win. Nixon won everywhere in 72 because McGovern was a bit left of Brezhnev. In 76 Ford didn’t win any southern states except Virginia, and Carter lost them all except Georgia in 80 because he was the worst president of all time until Obama (jury is still out on Trump). Reagan won everywhere in 84 and GHW Bush won everywhere in 88 against super leftist Northern Democrats. GHW Bush split the south in 92 against Clinton, and Clinton again won half the south in 96. Meanwhile Southern state congressional delegations and governorships didn’t switch from D to R in meaningful numbers until the late 80s to 1990s, so that “southern strategy” of convincing racist Democrats to switch to the party of Lincoln is pure myth making and not backed up by any actual election results for 30 years after the civil rights era that was led by Republicans.

  • avatar
    Big Al From 'Murica

    When is Boeing going to apologize for the 9-11 attacks. Mohammed Atta and his minions flew their BOEING aircraft into the Pentagon and World Trade Center, not Airbus.

    God I hate where this country is going. On the plus side Sam Adams Octoberfest is on the shelf and my neighbor gave me a bottle of Bulleit Bourbon for helping fix her brakes so I’ll worry about it later.


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