By on August 14, 2010

As reported on KVAL:

A state trooper rolled his car multiple times while chasing two reckless motorcyclists, one of whom returned to taunt the injured trooper, officials said… As the trooper tried to close in on the fastest biker, he told Pratt (the spokesperson for the Washington State Patrol) that two other bikers cut him off. “Had he not slowed down and slammed on the brakes, he would have hit them,” Pratt said. “At his speed that made him lose control.” The trooper’s vehicle rolled several times, finally landing in a ditch alongside the ramp.

Clearly, it’s time for these “trained police drivers” to quit driving wayyyyy over their personal limits on public roads. To save lives, I am personally willing to fly to Washington State and teach their patrolmen how to avoid the deadly combination of inept braking and inept cornering. My rates are reasonable, and can be best expressed in terms of Gibson Custom Shop guitars. (I rather fancy the Bloomfield ’59 Paul at the moment.) For an additional fee, I can also train the police in the ninja art of convincingly lying afterwards about on-track, I mean, on-road incidents. Really? The bikes came out of nowhere and cut him off? On a freeway ramp? Where’d they come from? Did they jump over the railing to cut him off, or were they dropped by a malevolent helicopter?

Of course, if the police don’t want to deal with a known bad guy like me — ignoring the fact that Frank Abagnale wrote the book on fraud — they could always send their drivers to any of the well-known driving schools in the area. Failing that, they should make it policy that police don’t aim two-ton weapons they cannot control at highway users who are mostly innocent of any offense more severe than having a Nickelback CD in their stereos. But that, I suppose, would make too much sense.

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107 Comments on “Sportbikers Laugh At Injured Trooper — But TTAC Can Help...”


  • avatar
    Dynamic88

    The way I heard it, the cyclists swerved in front of the trooper.

    One might argue the trooper should have been able to maintain control of his car. On the other hand, maybe he should have just hit the cyclists. The cyclists in the story sound like the type of human beings no one would miss.

  • avatar
    Carlson Fan

    Agreed. They should be thanking their sorry butts he tried to avoid them. 99% of the time these guys that think they are soo fast on their little scooters crash and burn in these types of pursuits. If they dont wreck on their own often they slow down around a corner and the officer in the squad gives them a little love tap onto the pavement or into the ditch.

    • 0 avatar
      SVX pearlie

      I dunno about you, but if it were reversed to be a civilian in a 5000-lb Crown Vic swerving at a motorcycle cop, the charge would be attempted murder.

      He should be thankful that none of the bikers had a lighter to recreate the scene from Mad Max.

    • 0 avatar
      rocketrodeo

      Actually, 99 percent of the time no one ever hears about the pursuit, because the bike simply vanished within the first minute. There are tremendous disparities in acceleration and speed between a sportbike and a Crown Vic. In many jurisdictions cops don’t even bother to chase sportbikes.

  • avatar
    diekaste

    Chasing a cyclist is stupid period moreover a group of riders is insane. What did he intend on doing once he caught up to the fastest rider? Run him down, perhaps shoot him? Even then the rest of the mob would have simply rode off.. That cruiser most likely has a dash cam of which he could have simply rolled on back to the station and placed charges. Our valiant civil servant here is going to cost the folks of Washington State a pretty penny by the time this is over.

    • 0 avatar
      healthy skeptic

      So the police shouldn’t bother pursuing bad guys, as long as they’re on motorcycles?

    • 0 avatar
      jaje

      Obviously – if you are on a motorcycle you are allowed to break all rules of the road or escape the police for that violent crime you committed b/c you are driving on two wheels. I don’t understand how some think that b/c someone is driving a motorcycle they should be given greater rights to break the law.

      In hindsight that trooper learned a valuable lesson to put his life before the lawbreaker next time. I only hope that the motorcycle riders have their organ donor cards up to date.

    • 0 avatar
      DC Bruce

      @healthyskeptic

      35 years ago, when I worked the police beat for a major big-city US daily paper, some of my acquaintances with the blue uniforms had a saying: “you may be faster than my car, but you are not faster than my radio.”

      Of course, we don’t know the full story, but our officer may have indeed call for backup ahead to intercept these guys instead of trying to run them down. But the truth is, the biggest hazard that they pose is to themselves, not to other vehicles.

      OTOH, an out of control police cruiser is a big hazard — to the person inside, not to mention others in the neighborhood.

  • avatar

    That roadway is very close to my old office, and I’ve driven it hundreds of times over the last six years. There is no way it played out as the trooper claims, and witnesses have disputed it as well.

  • avatar
    ExPatBrit

    This story has been pretty big on the radio, tv and papers here.

    However it is looking like possibly the trooper may have embellished his story somewhat.

    There is no way in hell a Crown Vic police car is gonna keep up with a crotch rocket. So why was this guy trying to tangle with supposedly 60-70 sport bikers. Why didn’t he call for backup or radio ahead.

    So the bikers who taunted him tapped on the glass, however some pictures seem to show all the glass was broken, hmm that’s odd!

    Also are we sure that the bikers that stopped are the same ones he tried to chase? No not really.

    Also no camera in the car because of budget cuts (cue blame Governor Gregoire, Bush, Obama , please pick your favorite scapegoat!)

    These bikers were probably doing what some of these pricks do, however the troopers behavior is very questionable.

    Expect some video will show up eventually and we will know soon meanwhile questions are being asked whether “sport bikes” should be banned. Fox at 11, tune in!

  • avatar
    Robert.Walter

    Another good reason for GPS-based speed limiters on motorcycles too…

    • 0 avatar
      Syke

      I’ll go along with it, as long as there’s one in your car, and, your whereabouts are to be tracked 24/7. Oh, that’s right, you’re one of the good guys and should be left alone. Only the motorcycle riders are bad.

  • avatar
    ExPatBrit

    I can see no reason for speed limiters on any privately owned vehicle.

    I hope your wish does not come true.

    I could see embedding speed limiters in certain peoples brains though.

  • avatar
    grzydj

    Sounds like in this case the cop can say whatever he wants. No wonder they don’t want to be videotaped doing anything.

  • avatar

    (I rather fancy the Bloomfield ‘59 Paul at the moment.)

    I have a vinyl copy of If You Love These Blues, Play ‘Em As You Please

    Did you know that Mike and Marshall Chess went to the same high school?

    Speaking of dead musicians, Richie Hayward, drummer extraordinaire of Little Feat, finally succumbed to liver cancer this past week.

    Bloomfield was great, but Lowell George may have been a better slide player.

  • avatar
    Dave M.

    Love the crotchrockets. Love to help them come to their social-behavior senses when they’re on the road shoulder passing stopped traffic, or weaving in and out. Civilized society means the rules apply to you too, Mr. Ninja.

    Love it even more when Darwin steps in.

  • avatar
    moawdtsi

    I doubt a camera would even be able to pick up on the license plates on these bikes since the plates are so small, and the plates are usually tucked up underneath the rear fender at an odd angle to make them hard to read.

    • 0 avatar
      M 1

      They’re actually tucked up under the seat at that angle to keep them from hitting the actual fender over the wheel — or because the fender has hit it and bent it up. You’d be surprised how much a motorcycle’s suspension moves around. (Naturally this is completely contrary to cop opinion.)

      But given the number of times I’ve seen the term “crotch rocket” in the comments so far, I’m guessing almost nobody here knows the first thing about sport bikes, let alone the people who ride them (who, in any case, are as diverse as group as any other category of vehicle ownership).

  • avatar
    mad scientist

    The Gibsons sound like almost reasonable compensation, but throw in a couple of Martin acoustics while you’re at it. Sweet axes, and American-made, at least.

    These cops have no business trying to chase down motorcyclists, especially a-holes like the subjects of this story. Accidents happen, innocent people get injured or killed, and justice is no better off when it’s all over. Cycles can go places where cop cars can’t, so what’s the use? I was an EMS volunteer during my high school/college days, and brainless types on suicide bikes kept the Darwin committees quite busy. Unfortunately, the same could be said for the smarter riders, too.

  • avatar
    panzerfaust

    The trooper may not have had in-car video, but he did have a radio, back up is how you deal with perps that are too fast for your cruiser. Pursuing a crotch-rocket(s) with a Crown-Vic; what could possibly go wrong?

  • avatar
    John R

    Don’t these cops use radios? Know when to say when and put out an APB??

  • avatar
    George B

    Why are Crown Vics used as pursuit vehicles? Police version may be better, but high-speed maneuverability is not one of the strengths of the civilian panthers. Tough and cheap, yes, but it’s sometimes hard to know where the bow of the boat will end up after you turn the wheel. Would be interesting to see how a Mazda6 V6, basically a Fusion XL from Flat Rock, would do pursuing the bad guys and hauling them back to the station.

    • 0 avatar
      Robert.Walter

      Whys: Cheap, durable, easy to maintain, RWD for median turns, BOF for curb-hopping, and room for lots of gear and lots of rear with the big trunk and comfy cop seat…

    • 0 avatar
      NulloModo

      Police cars don’t need to be fast. Officers only need to be able to get a visual and hopefully a plat number to be able to call in the APB so that other patrol cars and potentially a helicopter can get involved so that the whole police network can pin down the pursued vehicle.

      It’s easy to outrun the Crown Vic, it’s nearly impossibly to outrun the motorola.

  • avatar
    Ben

    How can you tell if a motorcyclist is laughing? Open faced helmet?

  • avatar
    Buckshot

    Chasing bikes with a Ford Crown-Vic?
    He is not the smartest cop.
    Take his gun before he shoot himself.

  • avatar
    Larry P2

    The cop is a liar.

    There have been too many editions of his manful attempts to lie his way out of this problem. One of his versions said that the 300 pound motorcycles ran his 5,000 pound cruiser off the road, thereby violating the laws of physics.

    Cops have been caught too many times in Washington indulging in unhinged insane brutality and serial dishonesty.

    Outside of the cloistered law enforcement cult, nobody here believes the cop.

    • 0 avatar
      dewfish

      That’s the problem. No one believes the lying cops except the very people who hold your freedom in their hands. If State and local governments were honest about police corruption (that it exists), then you would see better regulation of police forces and better law enforcement instead of “law by ego” attitude and “I can do whatever I want because the courts and mayors are automatically on my side.”

  • avatar
    Demetri

    Maybe I’m in the minority, but I give bikers a pass on their high speed hi-jinks. There aren’t very many of them, and they’re really only a danger to themselves. I have major respect for their willingness to hop on a bike and ride among a sea of SUVs, trucks, and minivans. I even give a pass to the posers on their Harleys, with their loud ass exhaust that annoys the crap out of everyone.

    • 0 avatar
      Detroit-Iron

      +1

      The plot of Mad Max notwithstanding, unless they have a passenger, there is almost nothing that even the most XTREME biker can do that will hurt anyone other than themselves.

    • 0 avatar
      ihatetrees

      I even give a pass to the posers on their Harleys, with their loud ass exhaust that annoys the crap out of everyone.

      The vast majority of Harley drivers I’ve met are careful drivers. Pipes are load because the sick joke level of consequence for cutting off and maiming/killing a motorcyclist (with the right of way). Often it’s about a $100 fine.

      Loud pipes may be a violation. But given the absolute contempt the law holds for the lives of motorcyclists with the right of way, it’s a reasonable, necessary, and ethically proper violation…

    • 0 avatar
      mpresley

      ihatetrees: Pipes are load because the sick joke level of consequence for cutting off and maiming/killing a motorcyclist (with the right of way).

      Pipes are loud because these guys are losers who, on weekends, like to dress up as Hells Angels and pretend they are something they are not. It’s simply peer pressure coupled with “look at me” low self-esteem (the girls I know think they have penis dimension problems, but I’ll let that one be–you know who you are). Especially the ones driving up and down the city block at 25 miles an hour who have no chance of hitting a pedestrian or being cut off at an intersection. If they were really concerned, they’d buy a loud horn like the truckers use, and then spare the world of their incessant adolescent immaturity.

      On the other hand, these Harley bikers do have some funny T-shirts, so they’ve got that going for them:

      “If you can read this the bitch fell off.”

      And the ever popular,

      “I’d rather see my sister in a whore house than my brother on a Jap bike.”

    • 0 avatar
      ihatetrees

      mpresley:
      Pipes are loud because these guys are losers who, on weekends, like to dress up as Hells Angels and pretend they are something they are not.

      Agreed, there’s some of that in Harley circles.

      But my point regarding loud pipes alerting clueless drivers stands. Heck, if Roy DaHood & the NHTSA actually cared about motorcyclists (with the right of way) who were hurt by others, they would:
      A) Gather stats about it.
      B) Suggest holding back highway funds for states that have joke-level penalties
      C) Probably mandate loud pipes as a solution after studying data.

      But we know that’s never gonna happen. The feds are too busy circle jerking about whether 2014 cars should have 10 or 12 mandatory air bags…

    • 0 avatar
      rpn453

      D) Mandate that the loud pipes face forward, since I never notice the bike through its exhaust loudness until it’s already past me.

      It’s really unfortunate, because I usually only realize I should have cut the annoying douchebag off once he’s gone.

  • avatar
    HoldenSSVSE

    Here is the story as I understand it.

    Motorcycle was pulling wheelies, etc. etc. on the road with group of other bikers. WSP saw activity and went to pursue/pull over. Motorcycle sped away, buddies prevented pursuit. Officer tried to go around, crash.

    Multiple witness have said that the bikers did return to taunt the trooper post crash. This is part of the story that doesn’t seem to be in question – but the rest is wide open.

    On talk radio there were a couple of people that called in claiming to be part of the Rough Rider Motorcycle Club, including a person claiming to be their PR representative. They stated they had, “less than 25 members,” in the area chapter, and less than half were stunt riders. This leads me to believe that if it happened per the troopers version, they know who. The caller prior to the PR person stated that even if they knew who did it, he wouldn’t report them.

    I agree with other posters that as of late, WSP, King County and area police have a less than stellar track record when it comes to truth and behavior. The lack of a dash camera, which personally I believe protects citizens more than police is beyond ridiculous. Apparently the WSP had their budgets cut and the cameras were a victim of those cuts. That I believe is a load of crap – and goes back to the whole lack of trust issue.

  • avatar
    Bill Wade

    While this may well be a newsworthy event, the writer of this article debases the high standards of TTAC. I can read this type of garbage at dozens of website forums populated by know it all kids and others that flaunt authority.

    I believe Robert F. would be very unhappy to see the low bar set for some of the editorials.

    • 0 avatar
      HoldenSSVSE

      I had read this a few hours ago and commented; I just came back from dinner and was thinking after the fact that this is pretty low for TTAC standards and just read your post. There has always been a strong degree of schadenfreude here, but this does sink to a new low for TTAC.

  • avatar
    roamer

    I’m a rider in the Seattle area, so naturally I’ve been paying attention to the story. At last count I had heard three versions of what happened attributed to the officer in question. Draw your own conclusions. But I’ve never seen 70 riders on the road in this area. The most ever in one place was 20.

    The story told by riders on the email lists is substantially different, of course. According to them, the officer was driving below the speed limit and blocking the bikes from passing, cutting them off repeatedly. This meant that closing traffic behind -them- was moving much faster than they were. This is a very dangerous situation for a rider. Once one of the bikes was able to pass, the officer began pursuit of the bike immediately.

    True? False? No idea. But I do know that the day after this more than one rider was pulled over and told the crackdown was on. Riding the wrong kind of bike, or wearing gear that is too flashy, or aftermarket parts on your ride is going to get you a ticket. God help you if you open your mouth while they are busy assessing your faults. Most of the riders I know are caging it (driving their cars) because they don’t need the hassle.

    What I am sure of is that a 46-year-old officer should be mature enough to not get into a pursuit with a 20 year old on what is essentially a detuned track bike. The man in the uniform has the training, and is assumed to have the maturity, to control the situation and avoid accidents. The outcome of this incident – whichever version you choose – means that this officer needs to be behind a desk. NOT in a 4000 lb. patrol car among civilians.

  • avatar
    Daanii2

    The story as I could piece it together appears to be this. A group of 60 to 70 motorcycle riders gathered by pre-arrangement and were riding up the freeway on one of their regular rides. They were going somewhat faster than the speed limit.

    The Washington State Patrol car came on the scene and pulled in front of the motorcyclists and did S-turns to keep them slowed down. Three motorcycle riders broke out of the pack and got past the patrol car. The patrol car went after them, lost control, and crashed.

    No one other than the patrolman saw any motorcyclist “force” the patrolman off the road. However, two motorcyclists did stop and look at the crashed patrol car.

    The patrolman had 22 years experience on the force. He has no evidence to back up his claims. No witnesses saw any motorcycle riders force him off the road.

    Whether the two motorcyclists came back and “taunted and laughed” is legally irrelevant. Taunting and laughing is not against the law.

    In short, the news clip from KOMO 4 News has more opinion than fact. They paint the incidence as rogue bikers assaulting and injuring a police officer, putting him in the hospital.

    Although this too is just opinion, my opinion based on what little I know about it is that the patrolman should not have been going 100 miles per hour to catch up to the motorcyclists. That was unsafe, and it was lucky only he was injured.

  • avatar
    john.fritz

    I call bullshit. With a little stateist hyperbole thrown in for good measure. Motorcyclists baiting LEO into a high speed chase? Happens more often that you think? Please. These people live on another planet if they think anyone truly believes this stuff.

  • avatar
    golden2husky

    Couple of comments…

    RoberWalker, you have to be kidding me thinking that speed limiters are part of the answer to anything.

    As far as expecting the trooper to tell the truth, forget it. Cops lie like rugs in cases like this. I wouldn’t doubt that the cop tried to act like a rolling blockade, nor do I doubt that the bikers taunted the cop as he tried to pass them to get to the fastest bike. Without the dashcam, we will never know.

  • avatar
    Larry P2

    “Apparently the WSP had their budgets cut and the cameras were a victim of those cuts.”

    Another lie. This is just dishonest, moneygrubbing spin. (How can paid for videocams just disappear into thin air as soon as budget cuts take effect?) They have dashcams, but in a surprising number of instances, the dashcam either “malfunctions,” or is “inadvertently left off,” particularly so when the video would have contradicted the officer’s dubious self-serving story. My cheep cellphone, which has been dunked numerous times, dropped, ran over etc etc never “malfunctions,” or “inadvertently is left off” unlike the cop videocamd which are kept in a warm, dry, padded and impervious spot their entire life.

    For cops, the solution to this dilemma is to charge citizens with a felony when the citizen videotapes traffic stops.

    • 0 avatar

      I have no comments about this incident other than I’m glad that apparently no one was badly hurt. Jack, sign me up for one of your driving courses, but you have to do some ridealongs with me.

      @ Larry P2:

      My in-car recording system malfunctions quite often, and if you think a patrol car has a “warm, dry, padded and impervious spot”, you haven’t spent much time in one. I wanted a different recording system during the trial phase, but the lowest bidder won. Since I don’t know when it’s going to take a dump, I often use a separate pocket recorder along with the in-car system. As I said in the “Maryland Attorney General Upholds Right to Video Traffic Stops” thread, I have no problem with being recorded while I’m working.

      BTW, the system in my car activates whenever the light bar is turned on, whenever an airbag deploys, and whenever the car reaches 80 mph. At or above 80 mph, the system can’t be shut off. Someone mentioned the IIHS paying for in-car systems. News to me, but there may be some grant programs out there.

      The Crown Victoria Police Interceptor performs well for most patrol work, but not high speed driving, especially once there’s some miles on the vehicle. They’re just too heavy, and being fleet vehicles, the tires are selected more for longevity than handling.

    • 0 avatar
      HoldenSSVSE

      Ummm, you can say it isn’t true all you want – there was no camera “malfunction” or the source was “deleted by accident,” or some other issue. WSP vehicles don’t have dash cams…

      http://www.seattlepi.com/local/424935_biker11.html?source=mypi

      I was stunned to learn this. Is it because of budget cuts? Who knows. Is it some vast conspiracy started a few years ago because the WSP knew this was going to happen because they perfect time travel in 2006 with the help of Starbucks coffee and a bug in Windows Vista? I guess anything is possible.

    • 0 avatar

      @ HoldenSSVSE:

      It’s a rare department that doesn’t want in-car recorders in every patrol car (administrators’ cars are an entirely different matter), but they aren’t cheap. Those systems can defuse complaints very quickly, and their evidentiary value is immense. Those systems can also make it relatively easy for a department to distance itself from officers when the lawsuits fly – “acting outside our department’s policies” is a popular phrase. Ever seen the movie Aliens? When it’s affordable to do so, I fully expect field officers will be wearing similar, live feed equipment; I believe some UK cars already do this.

      Smart officers know their jobs and welcome the scrutiny of private and departmental recording of their work related activities. I don’t care for the fishing expeditions I’ve seen performed against a few co-workers, but that’s the environment I work in.

    • 0 avatar
      porschespeed

      C’mon Toasty,

      It’s the rare dept that wants dashcams.

      The vetted media is replete with stories of LEO unions not wanting it’s members recorded while on duty. Especially while doing something illegal.
      As I have stated before, if you are the one in a thousand straight cops, I support you 100%. I really do.

      However, one needs only to hit an aggregator like http://www.injusticeeverywhere.com to have a vague clue about how the blue wall actually functions.

      As someone who has has more than a few LEO relatives (and FBs), I know how it really works – not everyone is dirty, but the other 50% follow the code, so the abuse continues.

      Don’t get me wrong, this is hardly a novel phenomenon – since the beginning of our country, if you have the means, you are above the law. But some of us really believe in the ideal of our republic and will fight that to the end.

    • 0 avatar

      @ porschespeed:

      I don’t think I was clear.

      You may be right about some street officers not liking the department recording everything, but I doubt many department administrators would pass on free surveillance of their officers. Aside from their value in addressing crime, civilian government officials and law enforcement administrators most definitely want dashcams. It’s the best way to mitigate liability and push any and all responsibility onto the lowly street officers. As I said, if there’s anything on the recording that can be used to separate the department from the officer, it’ll be used to protect the department in any civil matter.

      “Officer Smith acted outside our department’s policies, and here’s the documents and video to prove it.” I have a 4″ stack of paper that regulates everything I do at work, down to which tray on which desk I put certain reports. Technically speaking, if I put a report in the wrong tray, I’m looking at some sort of administrative action. You better believe if I was involved in something out of the ordinary, any recording would be scrutinized down to the pixel to place as much blame on me as possible.

    • 0 avatar
      ihatetrees

      @ toasty, porschespeed:

      Informative exchange, gentleman.

      I think the model for videotaping or recording workplace activities is the one developed by pilot’s unions and the FAA. Simply put, it doesn’t allow pilots’ administrators to hammer pilots for minor errors. However, stats and data are collected to improve overall procedures.

      And a warning to cop haters everywhere: As cameras and recording become ever cheaper, there will be pressure to record a lot of critical jobs – maybe even yours. If you work in pharma manufacturing, you may experience it.

    • 0 avatar
      porschespeed

      Ahh Toasty,

      One of these days I really have to buy you dinner and a libation of your choosing. Not to procure any influence, just because I know it would be an interesting evening.

      I’m going to have faith and believe your posts – as such, you are what a LEO is supposed to be.

      As always, don’t lose the faith man. There is always the subtle corruption of friendship, the trick is not letting it subvert your idealism or principles.

    • 0 avatar

      Gee, I didn’t get you anything. :)

      Sorry to disappoint, but other than my job and vacations, I lead a pretty boring life. Look at all the time I’ve spent on this thread!

      Thanks for the faith, keep your guard up, and hit the record button.

    • 0 avatar
      porschespeed

      @Toasty,

      Didn’t expect or want you to get me anything – save for your honest service.

      Because (or despite of) my mother’s DAR status, I believe in the ideal of our country.

      Live up to it, and you will truly be one of the proud and few.

    • 0 avatar
      dewfish

      @ihatetrees:

      At almost any job, there are cameras everywhere already. I don’t care about cameras in any public place, including work. The same should apply to police.

  • avatar
    ajla

    Should have waited for the SHO interceptor.

  • avatar
    JimothyLite

    A related story from jalopnik today. This fellow got caught though.

    http://jalopnik.com/5613090/fast-and-the-furious-fugutive-caught-after-foot-chase

    • 0 avatar
      NulloModo

      That’s a shame, as big of a douche as that guy was, I was rooting for him. It’s a bit sad IMO that his forum turned on him, then against, perhaps he was a big douche to them beforehand, in which case I understand.

      In these days of pervasive surveillance that little outlaw voice in all of us makes it easy to side for the guy who flaunts his fairly harmless endeavors.

      In the end, I wonder a bit about his motivation. Did he know he would get caught so soon, was it just or the thrill, or does he have some bigger game in mind? With what he is charged with it’s likely that he will only serve a few years behind bars, and if he can make bail and play up his exploits enough before he’s locked up he will likely have a fairly large following of the ladies who like bad boys before and while he is serving his time. If in the end he did it for image, he’ll probably find it worthwhile in the end, as I’m sure he’ll have his pick of female pen pals to spend the night with when he gets out. The potential downside, in addition to the obvious lack of freedom, is how well he can handle the advances of Bubba and the like whilst in the big house.

    • 0 avatar

      “Erik Holtz, 25, of Fairport, N.Y. is wanted for aiming his Mitsubishi at a police officer and evading three pursuits last Saturday. […] When police approached his car, they say Holtz reversed, rammed another vehicle, then drove at an officer and escaped over four lawns. He outran a second pursuit, dropped off a 17-year-old girl who had been his passenger, and later outran a third chase. He’s wanted for attempted aggravated assault on an officer, among other charges.”

      @ NulloModo:

      You were rooting for that?

      “In these days of pervasive surveillance that little outlaw voice in all of us makes it easy to side for the guy who flaunts his fairly harmless endeavors.”

      Having been on the receiving end of the kind of actions this free spirit allegedly committed, and having had to clean up the destroyed property and broken bodies people like him caused, I wouldn’t call that a “fairly harmless endeavor”.

      I’ll bet his CR-X is in mint condition.

    • 0 avatar
      NulloModo

      Toasty –

      Toasty, if he did actually try to run a guy down, then yes, that’s a bit different. As it is he didn’t actually hit or hurt anyone, so that makes his antics a little bit less serious IMO.

    • 0 avatar
      Robert.Walter

      Whatever happened to being responsilbe and restrained in one’s actions?

      These are not just boys having innocent fun. Or rebels fighting the crooked system for society’s benefit.

      These kinds of bikers are self-centered, anti-social, idiots making the roadways less predictable and safe for society as a whole.

      Having to keep one’s eye on such idiots doing such idiotic things takes one’s attention from other legitimate things.

      When they bust themselves up, they divert resources from other patients, when they put themselves into a permanant vegitative state they cause everybody’s insurance to rise.

      In their behavior there is no upside nor any element worthy of respect or honor.

  • avatar

    The cop’s the bad guy in this?

    Gotta love today’s societal boundaries.

    The upside of this combination of overpowered bikes and riders with lightweight IQs is society’s unflagging need for donor body parts.

    • 0 avatar
      dewfish

      Yes the cop is wrong (cops can be wrong, ya know). There are established protocols on what a cop should do against bikers or faster vehicles, and the cop clearly did not follow them. Hence the word “wrong.”

  • avatar
    newcarscostalot

    I agree with most everyone else. I’m surprised he didn’t call a helicopter to track the bikes. I was under the impression that WSP Troopers go through an extensive driving course and vigorous training. I am surprised that the patrol cars don’t have a dash cam.

    • 0 avatar

      @ newcarscostalot:

      FWIW, if an agency can’t afford to put dashcams in all of their patrol cars, the odds that they have a squadron of helicopters available is slim, especially ones that can keep up with a fast bike.

  • avatar
    newcarscostalot

    The WSP drive around in Dodge Chargers, just like the county mounties. If they can afford to purchase the cars, why not the cameras? Also, I have seen local news stories recently where helicopters were called in to track bikes, especially on I5.

    • 0 avatar
      newcarscostalot

      The WSP does indeed have helicopters available to them. Here are two links that support that support my comments:

      http://www.king5.com/news/local/WSP-eye-in-the-sky-helps-nab-DUI-suspect-91264014.html

      http://news.opb.org/article/5530-washington-state-patrol-takes-air-catch-drunk-drivers/

      Perhaps all the money they spent on new cars and helicopters drained their funds, thus no patrol car cameras.

    • 0 avatar

      I’m not sure why you think having Chargers means there’s money in an agency’s budget for dashcams in all of them. BTW, I heard that Chargers are selling for less than CVPIs; your bailout dollars at work.

      Maybe a helicopter wasn’t available for this incident. If there was one up in the area, you’re right, it would’ve been a great tool for this. I’ve been in pursuits with and without helicopter support, and it’s generally safer with one.

    • 0 avatar
      newcarscostalot

      My post is self explanatory, but allow me to clarify. The WSP probably has some say in where their scarce budget dollars go. If they do, then they should have the ability to prioritize their budget and choose where that money will go to.

  • avatar
    Joe ShpoilShport

    Just last week I was reading an article about how some people in law enforcement are trying to make it illegal for anyone to videotape police in line of duty, claiming their actions are private. They have aggresively stopped people and arrested and charged people for doing it (videotaping). Now since the usual response to one objecting to the suspension of civil liberties and privacy is ” why should you care if you’ve nothing to hide” I can only assume that any servant of the community, trying only to legally perform his duties, would feel the same.

  • avatar
    Larry P2

    Defying the laws of economics and physics, taser guns and radar guns never, ever malfunction and are never “missing in action” due to budget cuts. In fact, sworn testimony of the police indicates that radar guns, unlike any other man made phenomena, supersede in reliability and dependability any other known creation of science.

    Dash cams, by contrast and unlike the video cameras possessed by mere citizenry, rapidly disappear in the blink of a small budget cut. Say for instance, when uniform reimbursement is cut by 25 percent it means that 100 percent of dash cameras are suddenly MIA. The video cameras bought by mere citizens are bulletproof, indestructible and reliable to a fault(ask any ex-girlfriend whose nude cavorting appears on you tube). The ones made specially for cops, by contrast, are exactingly built in a specialized factory renowned for shoddy workmanship and extremely unreliable cameras. The cameras are almost always fail to work whenever the police demonstrate unhinged and extravagant brutality, take a bribe, or whenever evidence that might support a suspect’s innocence appears in the view finder.

    Baruth, of course, must have been writing tongue and cheek when describing the superior driving ability of cops. A little-known factoid is that even the average cop could out-drive and out-handle any professional Daytona 500 or Indianapolis race car driver. The grueling ten-week training course new cops undergo turns them into superhuman drivers, experts on the Constitution, and Olympic-competitive shooters.

    Knowing all of the above, it should surprise no one that a tiny, sub-400 pound motorcycle could easily push a 5,000 pound cruiser off the road.

    • 0 avatar

      @ Larry P2:

      You can rant all you want, but I’m telling it like it is. Dashcam systems do malfunction, and believe me, I wish mine didn’t. In the end, I’ll be the guy on the stand explaining why a recording isn’t available, and guess what, the people in a position to give me better equipment won’t be concerned. As for the rest of your rant, people can decide for themselves how much value to assign to it.

      Also, the officers that use dashcams rarely have any say in budget matters. Mine showed up when they finally retired my old car from patrol work. If you want dashcams in all of your area’s patrol cars, get involved and show up at the appropriate meetings.

    • 0 avatar
      porschespeed

      Larry P2,

      You and I get functional, consumer-level tech. Personally, I have never had a vid malfunction while camming a girl doing nasty things to me. Ever. But…

      Cops really do get over-priced absolute dogsht tech. Really.

      ‘Government contract’ means 2 generations behind tech, at 4 generations ahead pricing.

      I wholeheartedly agree that it is fascinating how ‘vid malfunctions’ always seem to happen when a cop is breaking the law, but, even as who I am, I swear the cops have junk that a retard wouldn’t build, at prices that only the government would pay.

  • avatar
    Larry P2

    “In Denver Colorado, police officials are fighting over whether to fire an officer or give him 3 days off for submitting a false report to justify using force on a man who, as video showed, was merely talking on a cellphone when the officer clocked him, threw him to the ground, then began to beat him. An interesting side note is how the police camera filming the incident began to pan out when it happened then waited until the beating was over to zoom back in, something officials say is just the way the camera works automatically.”

    • 0 avatar

      If accurate, that sounds like someone I wouldn’t want to work with.

      As for the camera “panning”, I doubt that’s what happened, as I haven’t heard of a system that can pan autonomously. Dashcams can be programmed to automatically zoom in and out periodically in order to capture something that otherwise would’ve been off-camera, and unless someone else was in the patrol car during the incident, that’s probably what occurred.

  • avatar
    mrcrispy

    Cops think and act like they are above the law and use every opportunity to abuse their authority and harass/arrest/beat innocent people. Courts turn a blind eye. This has been happening more and more, esp now that all the laws are heavily biased in favor of the system. Why would you ever trust what a cop has to say?

  • avatar
    Mark MacInnis

    As far as ninja bikers with bad attitudes and too much testosterone and adrenaline go….they are a deadly mix, and someone, likely other then them, always gets hurt. We could let Darwin have his way, but that takes too long.

    I feel about ‘em the same way I felt about the gooks in ‘Nam….shoot ‘em all, let God etc. etc….

  • avatar

    Face it: The Police are just criminals who squeaked into a different line of work.

    They hardly seem to do their jobs without breaking the law and/or harassing law-abiding citizens.

    There is no functional testing cycle that regularly weeds out and keeps out the psychos.

    And there is nowhere near a healthy employee turnover due to oversight firings for misconduct.

    Sad.

    I hardly thought I’d say this, but: “Go Go Biker Yobbos!!”

  • avatar

    Personally, I believe all Police cars need mandatory cameras with the footage uploaded to the internet daily.

  • avatar

    Officer Toasty, how do you feel about those police departments that arrest people for videotaping LEOs on the job? The most infamous case is the Graber case in MD, where an off duty cop accosted a motorcyclist while brandishing his weapon, without identifying himself. Graber had a helmet cam and after the video ended up on YouTube, he was arrested, his computers were seized and he’s being prosecuted for violating Maryland’s audio wiretapping statutes.

    Now, this is typical cop behavior, filing charges against someone who makes cops look bad. In the case of the bikers in the current post allegedly “taunting” the injured cop, we see the same kind of retribution in play when the cops say that if they can identify the bikers who stopped to look they’ll be prosecuted for failing to notify emergency responders.

    In any case, it should be perfectly legal to videotape any public employee on the job, including cops, including undercover cops. If cops have the right to put me under surveillance I should have the same right regarding them as well. If anything I say to a cop can and will be used against me in legal proceedings, cops should have similar lack of privacy in their conversations.

    Toasty, guys like you would have more credibility if you ever publicly spoke out against corruption, petty as well as subversive. You’d have some credibility if you once spoke out publicly criticizing this or that department policy (well, those policies that don’t impact your pensions or your benefits – for those policies, cops and their unions have unending criticism, just don’t expect a cop to speak out about ticket quotas and the like).

    Frankly I’m tired of the openly dismissive attitude many cops have to “civilians” (a term I despise because it allows cops to see themselves as quasi-military, a dangerous trend). Even the mildest questions about police procedure are met with a dismissive smirk, as though only cops know everything.

    Toasty, how do you feel when a non-cop tells you that you work for him?

    • 0 avatar

      Mr. Schreiber:

      I made my feelings on the “wiretapping” charges of the Maryland case very clear on the relevant thread. In short, as long as the photographer isn’t interfering with my duties or causing a safety issue, I have no problem with them recording my work activities. Take a look, if you really care what I have to say on the matter:

      http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/maryland-attorney-general-upholds-right-to-video-traffic-stops/

      “Toasty, how do you feel when a non-cop tells you that you work for him?”

      When a citizen (better?) tells me that I work for them, I agree. I also still do my job, even if that citizen doesn’t agree with my actions. As long as someone isn’t breaking the law, I really don’t care what they say to me, or the tone they use.

      Officers like me are the ones making sure laws are enforced fairly, and we make sure our activities, and the activities of those that work with us, are legal. I’ve been part of investigations against other officers, and I told the truth, just like I do in court. It’s not fun to answer “I don’t know” to a question I should have an answer for when I’m testifying, or to file reports that I know will hurt a co-worker, but if that’s the truth, that’s what I say. I also regularly speak out about department policies that I don’t agree with, and I work to get them changed. I don’t care if you believe me or not. I know who I am and how I conduct myself.

      You can rant at me all you like about “typical cop behavior”; I get far worse regularly.

    • 0 avatar

      Officer Toasty,

      Would you be willing to post under your real name? I’ve yet to come across a LEO that posts online under their real name. “Jack Dunphy” of the LAPD contributes to National Review and other conservative publications and is both highly critical of his superiors and afraid of retribution.

      If an honest cop is worried about retribution from his bosses, how can we trust the bosses?

      In short, as long as the photographer isn’t interfering with my duties or causing a safety issue,

      Many of your fellow LEO’s have their own definitions of interfering. In my experience that often comes down to anything the cop in question feels is an affront to their ego or authority.

      “Toasty, how do you feel when a non-cop tells you that you work for him?”

      When a citizen (better?) tells me that I work for them, I agree.

      If not your better, certainly your boss in the sense that ultimately you’re accountable to elected officials for whom those citizens vote.

      However, when I’ve told cops that they work for the public, they protest loudly that their boss is the chief of police, not the public. FWIW, that’s not an uncommon attitude among many public employees, police are not unique in that regard. It’s just galling when someone whose job it is to protect you ends up abusing you.

      I’ll give you an example of what happens when a non-cop dares to say “you work for me”.

      I operate a small embroidery shop out of the garage in my home. I had a dispute with a customer who had asked me to copy a large patch they brought to me. After spending at least 12 hours working on the embroidery design, and about $40 on thread colors they insisted I ordered, they decided they weren’t going forward with the job and wanted their patch back. I told them to make an appointment. Two hours later two cops knocked on my garage door.

      They insisted that I give them the patch. When I asked about the $150 I was owed me for the job, the cops said “that’s a civil matter”. When I explained that the patch was too, and that what they were doing was no different than walking into a tailor’s shop and returning a customer’s suit without paying for the alterations, they ignored that and then threatened to return the next day because I didn’t have a business license.

      You may not do this, but many, perhaps most cops never tolerate any challenge to their egos without that attitude getting corrected. The cops had to establish that they were in charge and in control.

      When I told them that the customers lived outside our city and that they worked for me, a resident, and were helping a customer rip me off they said, “We’re done here” and literally turned heels and walked away.

      The next day, I called their supervisor and asked him to educate his officers about the city codes that specifically exempt my kind of home business from needing a license.

      As long as someone isn’t breaking the law, I really don’t care what they say to me, or the tone they use.

      Sadly, many cops don’t share your point of view. Many arrests for “disorderly conduct” or “failure to obey a lawful police order” are pretexts for what really is “contempt of cop”.

      You may indeed be a good cop, but there are many bad cops and even more indifferent and not particularly competent cops.

      I think that in general it’s a job that attracts both some very good people and some very bad people.

    • 0 avatar

      No, I’m not willing to post my real name. Officers and their families have suffered severe consequences from having personal information used against them, including being ambushed in their homes. TTAC has a columnist that remains anonymous (Booth Babe), and if being an automotive industry spokesperson warrants that level of protection, certainly a police officer has cause for concern. Even without my connection to law enforcement, I wouldn’t post my real name on a forum like this, as too many people have been victims of identity theft and worse after letting personal information loose on the net. If a member of the TTAC staff wanted to confirm my identity, they have my email address.

      I’m not concerned about retribution from my bosses, but what some here fail to understand is that there’s too much going on with some of these cases to make a determination solely based on what little information is available on the internet. For example, I mentioned several times in the Maryland thread that no one, including me, could make an informed determination about everything that occurred leading up to and during that traffic stop based on a few youtube clips. Thinking otherwise is foolish.

      Here’s an example of a department policy I’ve worked to change, and I wasn’t shy about speaking my mind. It was suddenly recommended that we make arrests for “Domestic Disorderly Conduct” (call it DDC) if we arrived at a domestic disturbance and someone inside was yelling. Seriously, we were told to arrest someone for yelling in their own home, with no other charges. The thinking behind this was that if someone was yelling in a domestic setting, that yelling could lead to a domestic battery, so in order to prevent the domestic battery, we should arrest for DDC. Aside from all of the other problems associated with arresting someone under those circumstances, there’s no charge of DDC in my jurisdiction. On the street, I discussed the matter with several co-workers and we decided on alternate, less legally curious methods to handle that situation. I also argued the point with a representative of our District Attorney’s office while in training with a whole lot of my superiors. In the end, I was glared at by my bosses, but the policy was quietly changed. I have no illusions about being promoted. :)

      [When a citizen (better?) tells me that I work for them, I agree.] – me

      “If not your better, certainly your boss in the sense that ultimately you’re accountable to elected officials for whom those citizens vote.” – Schreiber

      My use of “(better?)” was in reference to your earlier dislike of the term civilian, not a comment as to who’s better than me. Who’s my “better” has no bearing on how I do my job.

      From what you said of the incident involving the customer that took advantage of you, it sounds like you could’ve told those officers to pound sand and closed the door in their faces. Would that have been the wisest action? Probably not, but if you’d done that to me, I would’ve called it good and been on my way. I can’t explain or be held accountable for the actions of other officers any more than you can be held responsible for a local embroidery shop putting “Toastie” on my favorite gear bag.

      Officers occasionally get riled up, and in my experience, that’s when someone usually steps in and deescalates the situation. To me, that’s taking care of both the officer and the citizen, and that’s a mark of a good officer. Of course that doesn’t always happen, and that’s why departments have Internal Affairs divisions. It’s also why people have a right to argue their case in criminal and civil court. It sounds like you followed your conscience and spoke with someone at your local agency about your concerns, and that’s exactly the right thing to do.

      This is the first exchange we’ve had where you showed some respect for me and my profession, and entertained the notion that maybe I’m not just another angry, egomaniac cop. Thank you.

    • 0 avatar

      No, I’m not willing to post my real name. Officers and their families have suffered severe consequences from having personal information used against them, including being ambushed in their homes.

      Your employment is a matter of public record. When you get a citation, you don’t mind your name and picture in the newspaper.

      TTAC has a columnist that remains anonymous (Booth Babe), and if being an automotive industry spokesperson warrants that level of protection, certainly a police officer has cause for concern.

      Just so you know I’m consistent, I’m not entirely comfortable with BB and “Ken Elias” posting under pen names, though pen names and anonymity are certainly protected as free speech. I just think that people who post under their real names have a little more credibility.

      Also, BB and Ken Elias are not public employees. If they suffered retribution on the job for something they post here, that’s not a matter of public concern. If your bosses punish you for whistleblowing or otherwise expressing yourself, that’s possibly an abuse of their own power.

      I can’t explain or be held accountable for the actions of other officers

      True, but you can at least not treat us like fools and expect us to act like all cops are saints.

      This is the first exchange we’ve had where you showed some respect for me and my profession, and entertained the notion that maybe I’m not just another angry, egomaniac cop. Thank you.

      Well, I suppose I can take that as an acknowledgment that there really are angry egomaniac LEOs. Respect, as you indicated, is a two way street. It would be easier to show some respect to your profession if more members of your profession showed respect to non-cops.

    • 0 avatar

      I can’t explain or be held accountable for the actions of other officers – Toasty

      True, but you can at least not treat us like fools and expect us to act like all cops are saints. – Ronnie Schreiber
      ____________________________________________________________

      I pity you, Ronnie Schreiber, I really do.

      I’ve never said anything like your “fools” line, not even close, and for you to pretend otherwise makes it clear you’re so deeply entrenched in your hatred of law enforcement that you’ll say whatever you like. I flatly criticized the MD wiretapping case before you tried to hang it around my neck, I mentioned being part of investigations against other officers, and I’ve been critical of other law enforcement decisions. I don’t give a d~mn about being in the media and would prefer not to ever be known in that manner. In short, you don’t know me, and you haven’t listened to anything I’ve said that you couldn’t twist into something that fit your model of a bad cop. Rather than be goaded into anger at your cherry picked arguments and largely biased comments, I’ll continue to take the high road that you’ve avoided at every turn.

      You hate cops; I get it. It’s clear that I failed to bring you an inch closer to the reality that all police officers aren’t worthy of immediate scorn. I’ve countered many of your positions and accusations (how’d your MD wiretapping jab at me work out?), but instead of addressing those points, or even acknowledging that we’re in agreement, you’ve moved on to other spurious claims. You’ve even gone so far as to suggest that I shouldn’t be taken seriously unless I disclose my real name and put myself at more risk than I face at work, even after I offered a viable means of confirming my identity.

      A few months back, porschespeed and I had a heated discussion about DUI law with regard to blood alcohol content – this was before I disclosed my profession. Through it all, he never once displayed the hatred you have time after time, and I respect him for that. BTW, I don’t need to know his real name to appreciate he has some knowledge on the subject, and I don’t need to know someone’s name to treat them with respect, even online. That may surprise a cop hater, but it’s the way I roll.

      I’ve taken the time to post on a few of the law enforcement threads in an effort to cut through some of the fog about my profession. Maybe my words will keep someone from needlessly getting into a bad situation, or help them in a defense against a bad case. I don’t know if anything I’ve said will have that effect, but that was my intention. I’ve always found that given a chance to discuss an issue, everyone involved can learn from the discourse. I’ve managed to be reminded of something: I don’t always have the words to open someone’s eyes.

  • avatar
    Zombo

    Interesting thread where the cop haters , biker haters and even someone who wants GPS speed limiting tech engineered into motorcycles (which wouldn’t work BTW as the ways to defeat such a system would almost be immediately available for all to see online – the internet ever heard of it ?) have had their say . Me , I’m a middle aged motorcyclist riding since age 14 and as I see it the stunters were breaking the law , the cop acted foolishly in trying to stop them (two wrongs don’t make a right) , then tried to hide his bad behavior behind lies – that about cover it ?

    And I can’t resist replying to the loud pipes save lives crowd who have fallen for that bogus slogan concocted by the manufacturers of aftermarket pipes . When people are in a car with the windows closed and the AC and stereo on they’re not hearing anything outside the vehicle , especially a bike with the sound traveling behind it – so just admit you bought those straight pipes to sound cool already . The safest thing you can put in a car or on a motorcycle is a safe operator !

    http://www.virginiawind.com/byways/loud_pipes_save_lives.asp

  • avatar
    Pete Kohalmi

    I’ve been on this site for at least a couple of years but never been compelled to register or comment until now.

    I ride a sport bike. I’m a 38 year old husband, father and engineer. I ride to work almost every day except during the winter. On the weekends I sometimes like to cut loose and go riding the twisties with some friends. These friends are like me: middle aged professionals who like to occasionaly ride our bikes the way they were meant to be ridden. We are not out to hurt anyone or piss anyone off. If we crash, no one gets hurt but the rider. We are not out to cause trouble. Really, we just want to “Live and Let Live”. I don’t understand why some people take being passed by a faster vehicle-car or bike- so personally. It’s not personal. It’s physics. If you’ve never ridden a sport bike you cannot comprehend the performance of these bikes. I think this is an American thing. I’ve ridden in Europe a couple of times and find them to be much more bike-friendly. Almost all bikes pass cars and split lanes and park on sidewalks because bikes can do things a car can’t. Nobody cares.

    What was this cop trying to accomplish here? Teach these guys a lesson? Please. If these guys were really riding dangerously, fate will catch up to them and put one of them in the hospital.

    • 0 avatar
      DC Bruce

      Well if you and your buddies are off on a road that you basically have to yourselves . . . go ahead and knock yourselves out.

      But, if you are not, then you are expecting other drivers to make allowances for your unorthodox (and, just in passing, illegal) behavior. Some drivers do that better than others. Those who don’t do it well can cause trouble — for you, for themselves and for the folks who happen to be sharing that piece of roadspace with them.

      The “we’re just a bunch of hot shots who won’t harm anybody if they just stay out of the way” argument — whether from 2 or 4-wheelers is as old as dirt . . . and worth about as much. A person driving with the general traffic speed on a roadway (whether its 30 or 80) is entitled to rely on the fact that vehicles won’t be closing him from the rear at 40 miles an hour that the space between him and the vehicle next to him on the roadway won’t be the subject of an abrupt attempt by a third vehicle to get between them and so on. When those expectations are violated, people tend to exhibit a variety of reactions — from mere surprise to aggression. And those reactions can lead to trouble. It really doesn’t do for the person who triggered the reactions to complain that others react inappropriately; the fault is with the guy to triggered the reactions.

  • avatar

    I fight traffic tickets for a living. Many of my clients are bikers. The reality is this. Cars rarely run the cops. Those who do are usually “stupid kids” or very rarely, fugitives. In all cases it is quite rare.

    Bikes run all the time. I’ve been quoted by several cops in different agencies that about half will try to run. Most will call out on the car to car channel to line up other cops ahead prior to hitting the pursuit lights. Get behind twenty cycles, hit the lights and they will scatter in all directions.

    This usually means one or two guys will actually stop, and they get a dozen tickets each. (I always tell them they get one for each guy who ran).

    The licence plates you see inside the wheel well are part of this game.

    I’m defending a guy now who passed radar at 95 mph, and then ran the cop. He dumped the bike in an off ramp and was injured.

    Cops HATE sportbikers.

    • 0 avatar

      Hate might be a little strong, but night after night of dealing with the same group of riders ripping through the gears, annoying quite a few other citizens, and committing numerous dangerous acts gets old.

      When possible, I usually stop and have a consensual, friendly talk with a group of riders. Everyone knows the score, and I’ve found that simply asking the more rational riders of a group to slow down and move on to a less populated area makes a difference. If that doesn’t work and the riders are associated with a house in my area, I spend some time on the block so their neighbors can get some sleep. Just like any group of humans, a few won’t stop their street antics until pain is involved, and no one can do anything after the crash but try to save them.

    • 0 avatar
      1996MEdition

      I’m pleased to hear that you are doing such a great public service by defending your client. I am sure that he was going the posted limit and the cop chased him down and ran him off the road just because cops hate sportbikes.

      Would you defend this guy if he wasn’t paying you?

  • avatar
    Jack Baruth

    Ah, now that this is winding down I just wanted to thank 99% of the participants for being very civil and decent. This is the type of post in which passions can flare and I appreciate the relative lack of “Imma come to yo house and beat you down” stuff. Thanks!

  • avatar
    Revver

    You take a cheap shot at a cop who was just trying to do is job, got injured in the process, then thank everyone for being civil and decent?

    The arrogance is astounding.

    Yes, let’s all be decent. Hilarious.

  • avatar
    Larry P2

    Baruth let the cop off too easy. Modern policing and modern training of police is a colossal disaster. The slogan on the side of police cars says it all. In the old days, it said “To Protect and Serve.” Nowadays, is says “KEEP AWAY.”

    Just look at one area of life where the cops have seized control on a level unimaginable to the Founding Fathers, the War on Drugs. 28,000 murders in Mexico in the last three years. 1 million Americans imprisoned for marijuana, which has directly birthed the Meth amphetamine black market. Guess who is the largest lobbying group that wants to continue this insanity?

    Modern policing is about gaining more and more control and power. The police wish for a police state, and are getting it.

    • 0 avatar
      Revver

      Good lord, I thought I was a bit harsh, but equating a flipped police car to the “emerging police state” takes some kind of imagination.

    • 0 avatar

      Larry P2,

      I don’t know what you’re talking about. Here’s a pic of me and my buddies helping a guy get home from a local park.

      http://thepirata.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/tiananmen-square-tank.jpg

      I’ve countered a few of the more rational statements you’ve made, so now you’re trotting out the War on Drugs and “the police state”? I see the flaws in our justice system quite well, but citizens in the U.S. enjoy freedoms unknown to most of the world. If you don’t like our system, work to change it; that’s your right, too. Dragging the War on Drugs into a discussion about a police car accident involving traffic violations is pathetic.

  • avatar
    Morea

    Sportbikers are only a danger to themselves?

    Do a Google image search on “stockholm motorcycle fair”.

    Is it a typical accident? No. Could it happen to you or a loved one? Perhaps. Is that chance worth it to given someone the ‘right’ to ride at 150+ mph on public roads?

    Keep your high speed riding to the track, at least there everyone present has accepted the risks of your high speed riding.

  • avatar
    Pete Kohalmi

    We keep our high speed riding to rural, twisty backroads where we rarely get the bikes out of third gear. We’ll come across an occasional farm tucked away in the woods. I agree that flying on the interstate is dumb. Besides, there’s nothing fun about doing 100 mph on a strainght road, Booooring.

  • avatar
    Invisible

    Simple solution.

    The cop cars have dash cams and they record the offenders, and the speeds.

    If they don’t stop when being pursued, then all is fair, use the Crown Vic as a battering ram. So what, one less punk on the street!

    • 0 avatar
      1996MEdition

      Simpler solution…..a bullet can outrun any sport bike…..problem solved.

      Riders like this ARE dangerous and do hurt others than themselves when an accident occurs:

      http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/199806

      http://blog.nj.com/ledgerupdates/2007/06/cyclist_sentenced_to_jail_for.html

      Do you want your 16 yr old daughter on the road with a-holes like this riding around her?

      Just as for cars, there are track events where one can satisfy the need for speed.

  • avatar
    msquare

    The bullet argument is hyperbole, I understand, as it’s difficult for even the most expert shot to hit a high-speed target from a platform moving at not-quite-as-high speed. In air combat, the number of hits relative to shots fired is low, and errant rounds aren’t likely to do much damage several thousand feet in the air.

    Speedlaw, it shocks me that anyone who is serious about one’s bike hasn’t invested in a decent radar detector. A Valentine One should be able to sniff out that radar long before the cop gets a visual, even at 95 mph.

    Lasers work on only one vehicle at a time, and the places cops can use them are limited. They have to park perpendicular to the road, have to have a good view of the area they’re monitoring and need room to pull out and take off after someone, so they settle on the same places over and over again. Bikers and other regular road users should know them by heart.

    That said, there are still plenty of other ways to get nailed. Maybe it’s best to find out who among the local cops likes bikes and get to know them? Or join your local motorcycle cop unit?

    And as long as police academies stress command presence over simple reasoning, you’re going to have troublesome encounters with cops. That’s why when given a choice, always try to deal with the older ones. Since most departments don’t take any rookies over 35, it’s fairly certain they’ve been around a while.

    And if anyone thinks Germany is a sportbiker’s paradise, think again. I recall a billboard on a road near the Nurburgring with a picture of a few vultures and the caption, “Racers, we’re waiting for you.”

    • 0 avatar

      Or join your local motorcycle cop unit?

      The ultimate immunity from traffic violations. In one New Jersey county, I think it was Morris County, the local police union president wanted, as a negotiated benefit, “professional courtesy” on traffic stops, i.e. immunity from tickets, for not just off-duty cops but also their spouses.

      And as long as police academies stress command presence over simple reasoning, you’re going to have troublesome encounters with cops.

      That’s why cop ego will tolerate no attitude going unadjusted.

      My old shrink, who was also a lawyer and special master for the courts here, told me that many, perhaps most, cops today have a prison guard mentality. A prison guard rightfully has to consider any challenge to his authority to be a potentially lethal threat. Too many cops think that they’re the guards and we’re the prisoners and any perceived challenge to their authority must be addressed with extreme prejudice.

  • avatar
    Larry P2

    The training that police get that stresses command presence is also the reason they think it is okay to act like a hostile enemy occupation force, and consequently why the citizenry, on several different levels, is rising up in rebellion.

    As an example, I’ve seen the videos of many police/citizen interactions, and it is amazing how often several citizens jump in to record the event, knowing that without an independent record the courts will just accept the officers dishonest and self-serving account.

    Citizens protecting citizens from the police … who would have thought such a thing?


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