The first time GM attempted to create a BMW 3-Series fighter, we got the Cadillac Cimarron. After 27 years of trying again (and again and again) to take on the rear-wheel drive driver's car, we've got a rebadged Australian import that goes by the name Pontiac G8. No question: the G8 is a far better automobile than the Cimarron (what modern car isn't?). But it's still no 3-Series. Frankly, it's not clear what it is.
The G8's bodysides couldn't be more purely E46 if they'd been penned in China. Sure, some hood fauxpenings were added at the eleventh hour to provide Pontiac "character." But look at this car a thousand times, and it still won't look like a Pontiac. The sides are too clean, the proportions too slender for Detroit iron. (Or post-Bangle BMW, for that matter.) And as with Chinese knock-offs, such a close copy can't hope to have its own identity.
Many enthusiasts pine for the days when BMW interiors were designed for driving, with solid if unflashy materials, minimalist lines and no gadgetry. Welcome to the cabin of the G8. Someone Down Under appears to have made it their personal mission to squeeze all of the power window, power lock and power mirror controls into a single compact module located on the center console. (As seen previously in the GTO, there's ergonomics, and then there's Aussie ergonomics.) As a result, the front door panels are button-free; you can't get cleaner than that.
One thing GM didn't copy: the dimensions of an E46. People who've seen the G8 only in photos often think it's the size of a 3-Series, or perhaps a 5-Series. In fact, the G8 falls closest to the regular wheelbase 7. For GM, bigger has always equaled better. What better way to improve on the 3-Series than to add 20 inches of length and a half-foot of width?
Of course, for buyers seeking a roomy sedan the space will be welcome. The comfortably high rear seat cushion can easily transport three adults, and the trunk can swallow everyone's luggage. The entire rear seat does not fold, but the center pass-through provides a larger opening than some folding seats.
When behind the wheel, a relatively high seating position and a driver-oriented design helps the largest Pontiac feel smaller than it is. It doesn't feel like a 3, but it doesn't feel like a Dodge Charger, either. A 5 perhaps. Even some of the world's thickest A-pillars (no room in the budget for high-strength steel?) don't ruin the pistonhead party.
The G8 GT's rear-drive chassis feels nearly as balanced as a BMW's. The rear end can be smoothly throttle-steered through turns–without the standard stability control killing the joy. There's more kickback through the steering than desirable road feel, but at least there's road feel– something that can be said of fewer and fewer cars in the post-Lexus age. Body control is tight and precise, with very little in the way of ungainly slop.
With such a firm standard suspension, ride comfort isn't a G8 strength, even with the 18-inch tires (even less compliant nineteens are optional). Think 3, with the Sport Package. Hardcore enthusiasts won't mind feeling every bump. But the rest of the driving population? Sell this one to Avis, and renters will complain. Apparently GM has (finally) bought its own hype, and created a Pontiac suitable only for enthusiasts.
If there's anything American about the G8, it's the GT's 361-horsepower 6.0-liter V8. Except this one is more refined than the typical American pushrod V8. This refinement cuts both ways. You won't mistake the L76 for a high-winding DOHC unit, but it doesn't seem out of place in such an otherwise European car. The downside? While the G8 GT is undeniably quick when you plant your right foot, you have to rely on the rapidly rotating needle for this info. It would feel quicker with a more visceral powerplant.
If only the six-speed automatic was a willing partner; it often resists downshifting. The best slushboxes smoothly select the optimal ratio before the driver is aware that he's called for a new gear. This isn't one of those cog swappers.
Aside from making a car larger, GM can also be counted on to make it cheaper. In this case, you get a 7-sized 5-handling 3-looking 361-horsepower sedan for the price of a 1, and a 128i at that.
While not clearly a Pontiac, the G8 is clearly a bargain for anyone who's been seeking a super-sized, pushrod-powered, two-ton 3-Series. Unless the 15/24 on the window sticker scares even this crowd, GM will sell all it cares to lose money on. (The Australian dollar near parity with the greenback? Gotta hurt.) With a clearer identity, less spartan interior and more compliant suspension, there'd be less need to rely– in traditional GM fashion–on a low price.
131 Comments on “2008 Pontiac G8 GT Review...”
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Hell must be freezing over — I want one, and I’m a hardcore Honda fanboy. Make mine a 6-speed manual GXP in cop-magnet-red, please.
Too bad they aren’t bringing the car over with a manual this year. Still, the first GM I’ve seen in years that makes me go ‘Hmmmm’ Still think I’ll buy a G35S Sedan, 30 less horses, but Infiniti.
I’m really glad to see this car from GM. Nice looks, great performance, low price, unique in a crowd. Too bad about the lack of profits, though.
Why must every f-ing car be compared to the 3-series? What’s next, comparing the Lacrosse Super to the 3-series? They are completely different target markets. This is NOT a 3-series competitor in anything other than price. It’s a Bonneville replacement with real performance cred. It’s a replacement for the RWD Impala SS with actual handling built right in. But above all it is NOT a 3-series competitor any more than the Lacrosse Super, Bonneville GXP, or Mercury Marauder are.
You mention power window controls twice in the center console. I think you meant “power windows and power mirrors” instead.
thalter :
You mention power window controls twice in the center console. I think you meant “power windows and power mirrors” instead.
My bad. Text amended.
I’ll take your word on the balance being close to BMW… that was my biggest fear for this car. I think those who never let go of their pre-03 5 series because they still hate the look of the 5 might take this as a stopgap until the next 5 series. Not everyone buys a BMW for the badge, at least 5 series buyers. Lack of manual hurts.
I’m going to have to agree with initially comparing this car to the 3-series. GM has clearly positioned this car against a BMW, the 5-series.
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/31/video-pontiac-g8-embarrasses-bmw-5-series-in-internet-ad/
Rightfully so, I think. I would have never considered spending my money on a Pontiac…until today.
The G8 is compared to the 3 Series because in many reviews and enthusiasts’ eyes, the BMW epitomize the essense of what a proper sports should act and perform. BMWs, even the uber 7 Series, are generally praised for their sportiness and fluid performance on the track. However, I don’t think people will be cross-shopping the G8 with the 3, or even the 5 Series…more with the Charger.
Thanks for the review Michael. Very well done. Keep up the good work.
why copy someone else’s 1990s design? because it looks good, that’s why.
i really don’t know what BMW was thinking with the whole bangle thing. if you want to take a niche car like the Z4 and and make it arty or otherwise funky, then fine. to take a bread and butter car like the 3 and do *that* to it? makes me sad.
i nearly bought a leftover GTO, but i couldn’t get past the lack of styling for the price. i still prefer 2 doors to 4, but the G8 is such a nice design that i may be tempted again. the lack of manual is a deal-breaker, though, so i’ll have to see what the GXP costs. this may be the only thing that could get me back in an big 3 vehicle.
The G8 is compared to the 3 Series because in many reviews and enthusiasts’ eyes, the BMW epitomize the essense of what a proper sports should act and perform.
That doesn’t change the laws of physics. Something almost the size of the 7-series is not going to handle like the 3-series. Not even BMW can do that.
I’d love to see the V6 with a manual, but it will never happen. It would be kind of like a cheaper CTS with the 3.6L and rwd. Too bad…
Of course you’d never be able to sell a Falcon state-side…nosiree…what a stupid thought.
If it weren’t for the mpgs, I’d be all over this thing. It has the looks, performance, size, and price that are all right in my sweet spot. But I don’t know if I’m willing to pay $1500 or so per year extra in fuel just to satisfy this beast.
I can’t help but feel this is a perfect landing, right airport, but 5 years too late (fuel economy). It’ll probably sell well for its muscle car niche, but I don’t see fuel economy getting any lower on anyone’s radar anytime soon. This would have been a perfect car to help transition people away from unnecessary trucks and SUVs and sell them on the idea of quality, fun cars…a few years ago, when the relative economy improvement would have been substantial.
But I could be wrong. Hardee’s/Carl’s Jr. is selling very well DESPITE a massive shift toward health consciousness. Maybe this car is just the Frisco Burger America needs…
not everyone buys a BMW for the badge, at least 5 series buyers
Most of BMW’s target market wouldn’t be caught dead in a Pontiac.
Aren’t the A-pillars that thick for an airbag? That was a complaint of mine on my ‘04 CTS, but I forgave Cadillac for it because it was another airbag.
Oldsmoboi : This is NOT a 3-series competitor in anything other than price.
Thank you oldsmoboi! This is way too large to be a 3-series fighter. Comparing the G8 to the 3-series is like comparing “Smokin’ Joe” Frazier to Oscar De La Hoya. Sure, they’re both boxers who throw a mean right hook but that’s about the extent of the similarities.
In fact, even on price these two don’t compete. Try getting a new 300(ish) horsepower 3-series for 30k (then again, try getting a G8 for 30k for awhile whilst the initial flurry of buying activity occurs).
I mentioned the 3 for two reasons:
1. It looks just like an E46; that’s no accident.
2. On multiple board I’ve come across threads where people were discussing this as an alternative to the 3, G35, IS, etc. One of these times I said, “Hey, this thing is the size of a 7.” And people responded that I was crazy.
Found one of those threads:
http://forums.thecarlounge.com/zerothread?id=3736456&page=2
Guy was deciding between one of these and a 135i…
As always, looking for participants in the reliability research. Buy a G8 or know someone who buys one? Go / send them here:
http:/www.truedelta.com/reliability.php
Michael Karesh
Good point re: comparisons
I’m more towards the utilitarian end of the spectrum–I have a set of needs and I shop cars that meet those needs. Then I see if I can afford the car.
However, if I were to look around solely on the web forums, I’d find a LOT more people who base their car-buying needs on the PRICE followed by the class. Hence the 3-series comparison which makes no sense to me.
As a rational consumer, I find the latter method to be pretty weird for anyone except maybe a single adult with no friends. I don’t know if this is a sympton of more-money-than-sense or just a natural offshoot of people keeping their cars for such short periods of time these days.
Gosh darn it all to heck, I should always remember to mention this: I liked the rest of the review just fine.
Can We please stop talking about BMWs and concentrate on this American Muscle car?
I am just tired of hearing and seeing bimmers all the time. yes it is the Honda of Germany and driving a Bimmer gives you a Status Quo.
Have you seen this car on the road with fully loaded factory wheels or pimped out? Yap it’s pretty damn nice.
late
I have yet to drive this car so I can’t give you a truly honest opinion on it’s merits.
However, I can easily see this car being marketed as a ’slim down’ model for those folks who are driving around in SUV’s and pick-up’s. In fact, this may be the perfect car for older affluent folks who want a bit more sport and could care less about the badge in front of the car.
This has the best potential for sales success out of any full-sized vehicle I’ve seen since the 300C. I think GM has a great opportunity for itself. Let’s see if the public agrees.
Oldsmoboi has it right. The G8 is just a nice Pontiac, not some aspiring euro-fighter. (The first G8 I’ve seen on the street was in a grocery store parking lot, driven by a 70+ years old couple).
This is what GM should be/should have been doing across the board, with a FWD beer can thrown in at the bottom of the Chevy lineup and ONE OR TWO mid-sized FWD sedans. If only they would run in this direction, three decades of shame could finally be over.
BEAT, Steve_K, etc:
I think the comparisons with BMW is because Pontiac has targeted Bimmers in their advertising and promos. When they throw down the gauntlet like that, I don’t see how someone can be faulted for continuing to use that comparison.
Ford also did it with the Edge (vs X5).
Have you “been seeking a super-sized, (OHC)-powered, two-ton 3-Series”? If so, you could just get an M3 at 1.85 tons. Need more performance? How about a GT-R at 1.95 tons?
Seems to me you can have your choice of size in cars, but most are close to two tons regardless. When the horns sound, it should be an oink, oink noise.
I’m just glad that Pontiac is done with the pointy spoilers, excessive body cladding and melted aircraft interiors.
Great review.
Funny how Aussies seem to have a better idea of what a Pontiac should be than the North Americans.
Now get rid of the G6, G5, Torrent, but keep (improving) the Solstice.
Good to hear the reality matches the hype for the G8. While this certainly looks like good work by the boys down under it does make me wonder why GM can’t make that happen in US. Also I’m not quirte sure that a loss making exercise is what GM’s bottom line need right now.
However, this is definitely signs of life. As a twice BMW owner, the G8 is the only GM sedan that I would seriously consider lust-worthy. And it’s a bargain too – with the money you save on the 5 series you can buy gas and tires for 10 years worth of burnouts.
I really want to like this car, yet something is holding me back – a test drive is in order!
Good comments about eliminating all the electronic gadgets to focus on the CAR.
MK’s comments re: the plain sides make it seem like he’s longing for the plastic cladding of the past…
Automobile had a nice side by side comparison of the G8 with the 5-Series. Parked end-to-end, the design similarities are unmistakable.
The side view of the car is really, really appealing. The only shots of it I’d seen until today were frontal, arguably its worst side.
Michael, did I miss a mention of expected MPG? I can’t imagine a 6.0 V8 is going to get good mileage.
I’m not looking for cladding.
I am looking for a more distinctive appearance, as seen with the new CTS. The CTS manages to be at once different than anything else, clearly a Cadillac, and attractive. I’d like to see them do the same for Pontiac.
I’m also reacting to the fact that the styling has generally been praised. If a Chinese company did such a clear copy of a BMW, people would be criticizing them for copying. Why not this time?
Maybe it’s just a matter of copying the right car? Or maybe if you don’t copy the ends, but only lift the bodysides, you’re in the clear?
I am confused by people who see this car as American. Yes, GM is based in Michigan. But, aside from the nose, this car looks European, drives European, and is engineered and manufactured in Australia. Hence my difficulty sorting out what it is, exactly. Other than a lot of car for the price.
As for older people buying these–if they’re not enthusiasts, they’re not going to like the ride. They’d probably find a 300 with the base or Touring suspension more to their liking.
salhany:
I noted the EPA figueres in the concluding paragraph. At 15/24 (2008 figures), looks like about two MPG worse than a G35 or 535i, but in line with other V8s except those from Lexus.
Other than cladding and maybe an endura nose, what is there that is distinctly Pontiac? Pop up headlights maybe?
Someone asked whether the A-pillar might be thick because of the airbag. I might be wrong here, but I don’t see why the airbag would be in the A-pillar, since it’s well forward of the driver. There’s certainly a curtain airbag in the header above the side window, but I’m not sure how far forward it extends.
At any rate, the A-pillar is thick longitundinally, not laterally. I suspect it’s a matter of getting a stiff unibody without using pricey high-strength steel.
good review – the G8 GT is the first Pontiac in awhile that actually lives up to the GM promise of Driving Excitement –
For those who want to buy “domestic” even though the car is Holden engineered, this car is a no-brainer at this price point. But now, for those who are cross shopping any true performance sedan around $30-35K, the G8 GT is finally a true competitor.
Informed enthusiasts like us are willing to test drive the G8 GT – but I hope everybody else will cast aside Pontiac’s years of mediocrity/weak brand image and realize that this car is in another league. Can’t wait to drive one!
Great landing, wrong airport. I want this car to succeed but I’m sure Pontiac’s lack of promotional budget will mean the G8 will slip by once the “next big thing” from GM arrives. Not to mention its only $3000 less than a Cadillac CTS, which has more style, snob appeal, and a better warranty.
The G8 is better off as a Chevy Chevelle. With the bowtie’s deeper marketing budget, muscle car history, SS moniker (for the unknown GXP model) and stronger dealer network, it would do much better.
It may not be American, but it is 100% GM, built by Holden.
durailer, you made a good point in that the Aussies have a much better grasp on what Pontiac should be than the actual Pontiac people.
The ergonomic, size and driving experience of the G8 are remarkably similar to the GTO. These cars are nimble for their size. The handling balance allows anyone with modicum of driving skill to use either end for directional control. The interiors are several grades above anything else Pontiac offers, the ergonomics are (fortunately) far removed from typical GM fare. In short, this is the sedan for those of us who are the antithesis of the Toyota driver.
In short this is the type of car Pontiac should be selling across it’s entire range (with the possible exception of the G5). Unforutately, relying on Holden to supply “proper” Pontiacs is not a good long-term strategy. Pontiac should send a team directly to Adelaide to study how it’s done and bring that know-how back here. Otherwise, Pontiac may go the way of the Olds and Plymouth.
In the CTS there is an airbag badge on the A-pillar. I believe it it part of the side curtain system.
BMW is 50% image, so I doubt any GM product can ever compete with that.
I really hope that GM is considering different powertrains for the G8 in line with rising gas costs. Some blown V6 (or even twin turbo) should be the high end, maybe with the HHR SS engine as the base.
Unfortunately, odds are that the new G6 will be FWD on the Epsilon platform. It’s really too bad that there needs to be a G6 / Aura / Malibu riding on the same chassis and engines. In keeping with Pontiac’s “new” exclusivity, the G6 (and next Saab 9-1 / 9-2) should ride the RWD Alpha platform — (no Deltas or Espilons for Pontiac — leave that to Saturn / Opel / Chevy).
4 out of 5 stars for a domestic car. That should quiet some of the people saying that thing TTAC has a bias against domestics.
That said, it does appear very European and I’m glad to see that they got a lot right on the car, even if it is an Australian import.
Although I personally would not buy a car with the mpg this car gets, it doesn’t look bad for a large V8 powered car. 24 highway for that kind of power is an acceptable trade off. I wonder what the ratings on the V6 models will be?
The question is… would it have been 5 out of 5 stars if it was wearing a different badge?
@Oldsmoboi:
I can’t speak for Michael Karesh, the author. I can say that it’s not a badge issue for me, but a dealer issue. The local Pontiac folks are not my favorite.
I have driven the car, and if I were reviewing it I would have given it 5 stars.
I like the idea of this car as a “family sports car” meaning it is big enough to schlep the kids around in while still burning some rubber if you have the urge. The 3 Series doesn’t really make it for me, since I barely fit in the front of those and there is no way you could find me in the back of one. The 1 series, ha! maybe put some oompaloomps in back, otherwise those seats are worthless.
This car is definitely on my list of possible next vehicles. The only thing comparable in size, price and straight-line performance is a 300/Charger, and I don’t know if Chrysler is around for the long (or short) haul.
asfar as i can tell this is the ss and the harder one is the ssv. does any one know what else youse are getting, will you get any hsv product, what about the LWB versions, i hear you are getting a 6 is that the omega or the sv6
and if it is the omega youve got to love the fact that australias bigges selling car is seen as excitment material in the us
and if this sells well do you think ford might take notice and sell some falcons in the us
I wish it looked less like a Pontiac from the front. I wish they would retire the double kidney grill and come up with a new look.
The interior may be a little reserved, but it is a great compared to the “melted” look of Pontiacs past.
I think the V6 model could legitimately compete for Camcord buyers.
Does anyone know if GM plans to ever offer this with a six speed manual?
@Oldsmoboi:
“The question is… would it have been 5 out of 5 stars if it was wearing a different badge?”
I would phrase that the other way:
Would it have been 3 out of 5 stars if it was wearing an upmarket badge?
In other words, is our reality distorted because “it’s a good effort from Pontiac”?
Just like Hyundai, Kia etc. – graded on the curve, for effort versus reality.
The upcoming GXP will be available with a manual, and about 40 more horsepower. That one’s much more likely to get five stars from me.
In this case, I’ve withheld a fifth star because of the knockoff styling, recalcitrant automatic, and my desire (which wouldn’t fit in the review) for better-bolstered seats. The GXP will fix the transmission issue, and might have upgraded seats.
I’m also less willing to give a fifth star than some other reviewers.
Ladies and gentlemen, feast your eyes on the brand new Pontiac Flop. They might sell a few if they put more chrome on it, full wheelcovers and whitewalls for the 80+ crowd that’s been abandoned by Buick. There’s also some potential customers at your local law enforcement agency looking to replace an aging Crown Vic fleet, other than that, no takers.