By on January 7, 2021

Chao

Elaine Chao, the U.S. Secretary of Transportation, has resigned in the wake of the unrest in our nation’s capital yesterday.

Chao, in a letter to her colleagues, said, “Yesterday, our country experienced a traumatic and entirely avoidable event as supporters of the President stormed the Capitol building following a rally he addressed. As I’m sure is the case with many of you, it has deeply troubled me in a way that I simply cannot set aside.”

Chao

In announcing her resignation, effective Monday, January 11, 2021, Chao pledged to help her successor, Mayor Pete Buttigieg, with his transition to running the U.S. Department of Transportation.

Chao

Chao was the 18th U.S. Secretary of Transportation, her second cabinet position. She served as U.S. Secretary of Labor from 2001 to January 2009 and is the first Asian-American woman to be appointed to the President’s cabinet.

Chao

Chao came to the U.S. Department of Transportation with extensive experience in the transportation sector. Early in her career, she specialized in transportation financing in the private sector, then began a career in public service working on transportation issues at the White House. She served as Deputy Maritime Administrator, U. S. Department of Transportation, Chairman of the Federal Maritime Commission, and Deputy Secretary of the U.S. Department of Transportation.

Chao

Chao immigrated to America at the age of eight speaking no English, receiving her citizenship at age 19. Transitioning to a new country motivated her to devote much of her professional life to ensuring that others have the opportunity to build a better life. As U.S. Secretary of Labor, she focused on increasing the competitiveness of America’s workforce in a global economy, promoted job training, and improving workplace safety and health.

Prior to the Department of Labor, Chao was President and Chief Executive Officer of United Way of America. Chao also served as Director of the Peace Corps, where she established the first programs in the Baltic nations and the newly independent states of the former Soviet Union.

Chao earned an MBA from the Harvard Business School and an economics degree from Mount Holyoke College. Honored for her accomplishments and public service, she is the recipient of 37 honorary doctorate degrees.

A resident of Jefferson County, Kentucky, Chao is married to Senator Mitch McConnell (R-KY), who also condemned the riots and opposed President Trump’s demands that the election be overturned in his favor. Prior to her appointment as Secretary of Transportation, Chao was a Distinguished Fellow at Hudson Institute. She is the eldest of six daughters born to Dr. James S.C. Chao and the late Mrs. Ruth Mulan Chu Chao.

[Images: U.S. Dept. of Transportation]

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350 Comments on “Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao Resigns Amidst D.C. Chaos...”


  • avatar
    Lie2me

    Abandon ship! Don’t worry, Mitch, she’ll still love you long, long time ;-)

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    “it has deeply troubled me in a way that I simply cannot set aside”

    I know people who feel exactly that way about the loss of manual transmissions.

  • avatar
    Cicero

    She was happy to wield power and influence through Trump when Trump could give it though. What a profile in courage.

  • avatar
    Imagefont

    Hey, I’ll help you build that massive bonfire for years but when someone shows up with a match, whoa! I’m out!

    • 0 avatar
      thegamper

      ^^^ Exactly This ^^^^

      For the past 4 years I have been watching, waiting, praying that Republicans would stand up to Trump….find their conscience! Scream at the top of their lungs that nothing in their agenda is worth the price of having play along with Trump’s madness, cruelty and lies.

      To the credit of Mike Pence, Mitch McConnell….even Lindsay Graham, they finally did it. They finally said enough! I am in no way giving them a pass, it is something that should have been done 3 years ago. It literally took what amounts to a failed coup attempt to sway most Republicans to finally back away from Trump, but at least it happened. In a way I am actually glad it happened. We now have that inflection point where hopefully a large majority of the country has reached the conclusion….”Never Again”.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        I suppose you could give credit to McConnell and Pence. But here’s the thing: both of them simply did the minimum that their jobs required – nothing more, nothing less.

        That’s like heaping praise on the fry guy at McDonald’s for not overcooking your fries, or high-fiving the bank teller for giving you the correct amount of money. Are those acts really praiseworthy, or just reasonable expectations? I’d argue for the latter. You say “thanks,” and move on. So, yes, I thank Pence and McConnell for doing their jobs. But am I going to praise them? No. You don’t need to be praised for simply following the rules – it’s an expectation.

        We’re at a point where we feel it necessary to praise politicians for simply doing their jobs as prescribed by the Constitution, or just being reasonable. That’s sad, and tells you a lot about the state of politics in America.

        • 0 avatar
          thegamper

          My comment wasn’t meant as praise. Like I said, this should have happened 3 years ago. But I am sure many of us have felt like a hostage over the past 4 years, the Republicans have held the gun to America’s head while Trump robbed the bank, I will say I am thankful they ultimately couldn’t pull the trigger when Trump asked them to get rid of the witnesses. If that is praise, so be it.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “Held a gun to America’s head”? I wouldn’t go that far. I would say they’ve used the Trump Circus as a distraction while they put their agenda into place, but the fact is that the American people have basically repudiated Trump twice – in the 2018 midterms, and two months ago.

            The Republicans definitely made a Faustian bargain. And while it worked in the short term, I can’t see it working forever. In the end, the Trumpsters want nothing to do with the “traditional” GOP, and vice versa, and this was a party that was on the wrong side of demographics for a long time.

  • avatar
    Art Vandelay

    Hold on everyone, give me a couple minutes to pop up some popcorn.

  • avatar
    Lou_BC

    Resigning 13 days before one’s job ends is a profile in courage!

  • avatar

    A signal to the rest of the GOP caucus that the Trump wing and the Establishment wing have formally split. We are watching the GOP fracture in real time.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      Bound to happen, if you ask me. I think the party establishment was willing to put up with his nonsense as long as they were able to get their agenda pushed through; that party’s clearly over, so now he’s expendable.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    In my fourth attempt at party affiliation throughout my lifetime, I changed my registration to L in November after seeing a poll which said 52% of R voters believed Trump won the election. That was the last straw for me.

    Mock Ms Chao, but she at least has the courage to back away from the guy who hired her, based on convictions more important than politics.

    As for the rioters:
    Patriots have sound reasoning for their actions, but terrorists don’t. Belief in a nationwide, precisely-coordinated conspiracy carried out by thousands of part-time election volunteers is not sound reasoning.

    • 0 avatar
      ect

      She spent 4 years vigorously supporting Trump and enabling his lies and other bad behaviour. At the 11th hour, 2 weeks before she loses her job, she now seeks redemption by resigning “on principle”. If she truly had any principles, she’d never have gone to work for him in the first place. She’s a phony.

      • 0 avatar
        Imagefont

        ect
        This right here.

      • 0 avatar
        SCE to AUX

        “If she truly had any principles, she’d never have gone to work for him in the first place.”

        Easy to say from the outside. I’ve worked for bosses I didn’t particularly like. Maybe she’s a slow learner, or maybe her boundaries are a little different than yours. Maybe she hoped to do some good inside the DOT despite the stench across town.

        She might have quit if the riots had happened two years ago, but they didn’t. Unfortunate timing.

        She’s not wearing a MAGA hat today, that’s for sure. At least she quit; some True Believers will stick with Mr Trump for years to come.

        • 0 avatar
          Lie2me

          “Easy to say from the outside. I’ve worked for bosses I didn’t particularly like.”

          Me too, but I never once did anything illegal or unethical for anyone I’ve ever worked for

        • 0 avatar
          Dave M.

          There’s bosses who you don’t like, and there are bosses who are deplorable. It was always crystal clear who Donald Trump was, and Chao jumped on the gravy train for whatever reasons.

          I may not like your politics, and I’ll get over that as I have in the past. But when you are an uncivil human being to others, you don’t have a chance with me.

          Unless Trump pulls a Kenneth Lay, my gut feeling is he will die in prison.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            My gut feeling is that people will make noises about doing something to Trump to keep him more or less in line, but in the end, no one will.

      • 0 avatar
        nrd515

        If she had any principles, she probably wouldn’t have become involved with Turtle Man.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        She doesn’t seek redemption, the pieces are being repositioned on the board.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      SCE to AUX,

      let me tell you something about these “rioters”. There really was no riot. They could of burnt that place to the ground like they did on the street riots earlier elsewhere in America. Because these were the same people. These people were recognized last night as members of ANTIFA Phila division and their picture from previous riots are all over internet since last night. This was a show, a spectacle.

      The only question remaining – was this a red flag orchestrated by democratic leadership or it was initiative from ANTIFA itself? I have a feeling, it was the former because they have not done much damage.

      • 0 avatar
        JD-Shifty

        When you say ‘all over the internet’ you mean parler and breitbart? how can people be this stupid and still be able to breathe?

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          JD-Shifty
          ah, I see, CNN is the only your credible source.

          https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/Jan-6-The-POIs-from-the-Capital-Building-1-7-2021-002.jpg

          • 0 avatar
            ToolGuy

            @slavuta,

            https://www.factcheck.org/2021/01/bogus-antifa-claims-follow-capitol-riot/

            Which is correct? (Thank you in advance.)

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            “The only question remaining –”

            Every one of the insurrectionists that have been identified so far has no affiliation with the left. The photo you posted confirms that showing neo-nazis and q-anon followers.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @JD-Shifty – Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your point of view, breathing is a brainstem function which isn’t related to intelligence.

      • 0 avatar
        Imagefont

        slavuta
        I was wondering how long it would take you to crawl out from under your rock.
        The woman shot and killed at the capitol was a veteran who ran a pool supply company and was a rabid self indoctrinated Trump supporter and conspiracy theorist (like you).

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        slavuta, no more lies, ok? These rioters who caused 5 deaths are being IDed all over the internet. They were invited and encouraged by the Trumps, Rudy, Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley. They all knew what was coming down. No ANTIFA, no BLM and NO STOLEN ELECTION

        Just a bunch of thugs doing stupid tricks and are now going to win stupid prizes. Sit down

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          No stolen election? hahahaha. All world is laughing about it. Because of this “clean” election, US will never be able to tell any other country how to do theirs. Any dictator can now point finger at US. I don’t deny that Trump was removed by establishment. But election itself was dirty. Mathematically impossible. Can’t on the hourly scale number of ballots fall from the previous height. And Biden can’t be very popular only in Detroit, Phila, Atlanta. Why not in Chicago, NY or LA? What about “predicting” counties? All but one voted Trump. And what about “night-bag ballots”? Dominion machines that were originally designed to overturn elections in other countries, or their logic or trying to “predict voter’s intentions”? Low rejection rates. States sending un-requested ballots.
          In 1950 this would be a major scandal in US. But today, in this new America this is new normal.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            In this country when 50 states, 306 electors, 60 courts (including SCOTUS) say it wasn’t stolen we believe them. We’re not like your old country

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            @Slavuta, Thanks for once again posting the Kremlin’s line. For decades the USA disparaged the fake and fraudulent elections held in the Easter Bloc. In return the Soviets attempted to discredit American democracy, with little effect.

            However with their ‘Manchurian Candidate’ in the Oval Office, Putin has been able to use him to discredit the very foundations of American democracy. The independent judiciary, the free press, the voting process, and the ‘rule of law’. All of which are anathema to dictators, tyrants and the Soviets. Trump has publicly attacked them for 4 years. He has been able to accomplish what the Soviet government and the KGB could not for decades.

            Finally all those who predicted the very worst from Trump have been proven correct. His refusal to accept the election is just the final blow. Economically he has created a massive federal debt and just last month the USA experienced its worst trade deficit in 14 years. He is now leaving hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths and illnesses and an economic wreck.

            Good luck to the new administration and the citizens of the USA in regaining their previous position in the world.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Arthur Dailey,

            I see your delusional views. All you need to do is to look at presidency-debt graph and you will see that Bush doubled the debt first and then Obama doubled the doubled debt.

            For the deaths. 1 covid deaths exaggerated. 2. they are not due to Trump. But rather because this is hoe American medical system works. And say “thank you” to Obama and he care, which lead to closure of thousand of hospitals. And each hospital = beds.

            Notice, no government perfectly managed covid. And US deaths per million are not bad vs other western countries. Even Sweden collapsed in the end.

            Yea, Kremlin warned us about rotting capitalism. They were right. No? Sure, this type of capitalism, when 5 companies build capital and small business forced to close IS rotten.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @slavuta – the world is NOT laughing, well, unless you count those in the Kremlin, leaders of the PRC, North Korea et al.

            Trump lost because he was unpopular. 62 court cases and ONLY ONE was looked at. Trump’s Supreme Court shot him down.
            Lies repeated over and over and over are still lies.
            You can chose to believe lies or accept reality.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          you said “no antifa”? YES – antifa. Even arrested one, and confessing

          “John Sullivan, the anti-Trump founder of Utah-based Insurgence USA, said he entered the Capitol Building Wednesday alongside a mob of pro-Trump protesters, but he said he was just there to “document.” “

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            Oh, well, if John Sullivan was there to observe then I guess Trump wins. How silly of me

          • 0 avatar
            thegamper

            Slavuta, you need to take a step back and examine your life choices. Consider that your leader incited the violence, said he would be right there with you, came out on video telling the world he loved you, his “special” people AFTER the attack and then promptly sold you out the following day when it became apparent that the majority of republicans wouldn’t be getting on the sedition train. Trump will throw you under the bus the instant it serves him or the instant you stop being useful as a human shield. Just like he has every other ally he ever had. It is delusional at the highest order to think that he cares about you or anyone like you…. AT ALL.

            Most of us don’t understand why you can’t see that. All of these sources you cite are places people go to find someone who agrees with a pre determined mindset, not places you go to find actual facts. You need to start fact checking your fact checkers.

            I sincerely mean this next part. You should place your stock in someone, anyone, that actually deserves your loyalty. Someone that maybe doesn’t require you constantly defending their actions because they are a decent human being to begin with. A lot of people are arguing with you here. It is wrong reaction, they should try to understand the trap you have fallen into, try to understand the cultural and socioeconomic forces that that have created you and try to help you out of it. It is never too late to change.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @thegamper – @Slavuta and the Trumpian hords were looking for a savior. They wanted someone who would fight for the predominantly white uneducated middle-class who lost jobs and status due to technology,automation,imigrants,and offshoring. Add social,sexual,and minority upheaval to that mix.

            Trump lied from day one and they believed him. They still believe the great lie(s). Republicans jumped in to repeat those lies due to political expediency. Add media outlets like Fox and the alternate reality was created and took on a life of it’s own.

            No one ever wants to believe they were conned. The full name of a “con-man” is “Confidence man”. He gained their confidence with the help of Republicans, social media, and Fox.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          I’m not going to get into a thing but the violence last year was largely attributed to PROFA among the legitimate citizenry and this is likely no different. Their corps is being led by intelligence operatives and even their rank and file don’t realize they are too being played like the rest of us. Cui bono?

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        slavuta,

        “The only question remaining”

        I believe the purpose of this “riot” was to demonize the “right” (anyone who supports/supported Trump) in preparation for some sort of purge. Antifa was there. They were there to turn this into something violent. There are videos of the police opening the barriers and letting people into the capitol. Welcome to the SSR of Amerika.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          So…the righteous Trump train has been derailed by Antifa now. Yeah, I’m sure the horde of Antifa folks there didn’t clash with any of the MAGA corps, and if that happened, it never made the news because the Trilateral Commission forced CNN to destroy all the video.

          LOL…the self-victimization never ends.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @FreedMike – more conspiracies to feed the delusions. Occam’s razor- the simplest answer amoung answers is usually the correct one. Or more basic: K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Stupid.

            A vast conspiracy to cheat Trump out of a win is exceptionally complex. A vast conspiracy to fake a riot is also exceptionally complex.

            K.I.S.S.
            Trump was sh!tty and disliked by a major of voters.
            Trump LOST.

            Trump, Rudy, and some others fired up the angry protesters. The fuse was lit and aimed.

            No mass conspiracy.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Old_WRX,

          yes! I saw. Police welcomed them – go ruin the day. I don’t know how to interpret this. Police was tired of current affairs and said – go ruin this country. Or police played with mayor’s big plan – lets make them do something so we can tighten the nuts.

          Lets come back to facts – there were both alt-right radicals and antifa in Capitol.

          Lets go back half year, to Belarus. Belarus KGB arrests 30 Russian individuals supposedly in Belarus to provoke unrest. Today we know that this was an operation of Ukrainian KGB that lasted a year. They hired all those Russians via third players to do some security work in some African country, and laid their trip via Belarus with hotel stay between flights. Ukraine wanted to get their hand on these because they fought in Donbass.

          What I am saying, this is not out of real, that these radicals were in fact also paid, or otherwise told to do something like this on Wednesday.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            You really had to twist yourself into a pretzel to come up with this, “yes! I saw. Police welcomed them”

            Huh? The police have always been on the right, they would never have let leftists walk right through a police line. Try harder

        • 0 avatar
          mcs

          @old_wrx: Enough of the BS. One leftist activist, but everyone else I’ve seen has a long social media history of right wing activity. The woman that was shot has a history. The right-wing neo-nazis photographed in the Capitol have a history. The QAnon people photographed have a history.

          Why do you object to the demonizing of neo-nazis anyway? I have no issues with demonizing all extremists left or right. I don’t like violent leftists or neo-nazis. Supporting trump means supporting the individual that told the crowd to march to the Capitol and “stop the steal”. The individual didn’t want to follow the rulings of courts and the Constitution.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            You just know that a reasonable, balanced thought like this will get you nowhere here

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            mcs,

            “Why do you object to the demonizing of neo-nazis anyway?”

            I have no objection to demonizing nazis, neo- or not. I have no use whatsoever for extremist. Neo-nazis (like antifa) or white supremacist militias are the sort of thing the world would be much better without. But, then the ones you see are only tools, witting or unwitting.

            The MSM fails any smell test. There is no need of any outside information to tell that they are spinning things. For example: everything CNN says about Trump is negative; nothing they say about Biden is negative; all black and white. All black and white is a child’s view of things. If the news you are reading is monolithic, without any real opposing views and highly consistent it is propaganda. Real reporting is never that neat.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            msc

            “Why do you object to the demonizing of neo-nazis anyway?”

            Biden seem ok with these. In Ukraine he enabled them, supported them, gave them money. … Fast forward, in 2020 US blocked a UN resolution on denouncing of glorification of nazism, along with only one other country…. Ukraine.
            Basically, this is natural for America. German nazism has roots here. Eugenics.

            I agree. Some of those dudes were some weirdos. But it does not make Trump supporters nazis

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Old_WRX

          “I believe the purpose of this “riot” was to demonize the “right” (anyone who supports/supported Trump) in preparation for some sort of purge.”

          Your gut is right

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        slavuta,

        “was this a red flag..”

        I’d bet so. I seriously doubt antifa would take anything like that initiative on their own — that would be immensely stupid of them.

  • avatar
    jkross22

    She’s been in this role for a few years. Can anyone name any accomplishment she’s reached in that time?

    Anything….

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      Fair, but that probably holds for the 10 before her. It isn’t really a high profile deal.

    • 0 avatar
      tonycd

      Welll, she did just strip her own FAA of the authority to hold airline accountable for misleading practices. So there’s that.

      BTW, I agree with Tim and Art Vandelay 100% about the first poster. I hate this public official, but let’s stick to the behavioral reasons why.

  • avatar
    lstanley

    So brave. So stunning. A true profile in courage.

    Same thing I say about an employee who quits right before they are fired.

  • avatar
    mike1041

    @JK Ross. She deserves a medal for living with a man without spine or chin.

  • avatar
    mike1041

    @JK Ross. She deserves a medal for living with a man without spine or chin.

  • avatar
    Art Vandelay

    You know what though, there were a couple folks in intelligence type positions that sort of said “yeah, he’s a piece of crap but it would be sort of dangerous for the entire national security apparatus to resign”. Honestly I think that is more courageous than walking away at this point. Now in her job, who really cares.

  • avatar

    Is it a Reichstag fire moment in USA? Republican party will split into two small parties and may even be abolished and Democrats will take power like forever (see CA) since they will turn US into one party system and in any case will have no opposition and they now know how to manipulate ballots for their own gain. Expect the radical overhaul of Constitution, disarmament of the people, prosecution and jailing of political opponents in near future.

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      I expect none of that. Maybe the Republicans splinter but good…I’ve been wanting more parties for some time. Solid fearmongering though. I give it 8 of 10.

      • 0 avatar
        thegamper

        I think a lot of Republicans, definitely all of the Trump republicans, feel that all of the Democrats want to take all their guns, empty the jails, flood their streets with brown immigrants and turn the country down a much more socialist path. Keep in mind, this country is already socialist, especially for those of you receiving Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security benefits, unemployment insurance, etc.

        Those are the extremists in the Democratic party….so far. What we have learned over the past decade or so, is that the extremists in the Democratic party have not been able to overthrow or infiltrate the establishment to the extent the Republican far right has in the GOP. I hope the Democrats will pick up a lot of moderate votes that would have otherwise gone Republican in future elections so we can get back to middle of the road politics again with a clear moderate majority.

        • 0 avatar
          Lie2me

          Well said, thegamper

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @thegamper – Most Canadian conservative politicians would be seen as bleeding heart liberals in the USA. The US political system with the electoral college, along with gerrymandering(i.e. allows politicians to set electoral boundaries), and allows voter suppression gives conservatives an oversized influence.

        • 0 avatar

          That what they exactly do.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          thegamper,

          here is what I say

          “Consider that your leader incited the violence”
          – Trump did not. I watched over again and again. Nothing. He talked about legal fight.

          “majority of republicans wouldn’t be getting on the sedition train.”
          America is full of traitors. If I wanted to commit crime here, I would do it alone.

          “Trump will throw you under the bus the instant it serves him” ^^^
          Not just Trump – all of them, all of you.

          “Most of us don’t understand why you can’t see that”
          I am not delusional. I know that in America there is only 1 blanket and everyone pulls it to his side. However, given the choice between what I get with Trump vs current left… I think, we will remember Obama years as golden times.

          “You should place your stock in someone… they should try to understand the trap you have fallen into, try to understand the cultural and socioeconomic forces that that have created you”
          Look, I don’t consider Trump ideal person, president, etc. I don’t like many things related to him. Especially his speeches. But I love his openness about BS of political correctness, stopping illegal border runners, stepping on the tail of China dragon, removing regulations. And I will support his right to say what he wants to say. And I will hate anyone who tries to shut him down. You can disagree, you can leave the room, but he should be allowed to say what he wants.

          So, in a sense you are right. I came from a place where KGB could collect me for saying something, or even for reading of a banned book. So, here I am, defending American tradition of being able to say something.

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            slavuta,

            Are they trying to get us to believe that that mess at the capitol the other day was an attempted coup?

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            slavuta,

            “I watched over again and again. Nothing. He talked about legal fight.”

            Just because he didn’t incite violence doesn’t mean he didn’t incite violence. As I recall there was a great world leader who was quoted as saying that the worst saboteurs were the ones who never sabotaged (not that I know what wooden shoes have to do with all this…). I think he also referred to doctors as “assassins in white coats.”

          • 0 avatar
            brn

            “Just because he didn’t incite violence doesn’t mean he didn’t incite violence.”

            I’m hoping you see the flaw in that sentence.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      Please produce evidence of ballot manipulation.

      60 courts said there wasn’t evidence of mass fraud. Many of the judges in those courts were Chump appointees, including the Supreme Court.

    • 0 avatar
      ToolGuy

      @Inside Looking Out,

      You make some interesting points. (Even) the Wall Street Journal can tell which way the wind is blowing:

      https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trumps-final-days-11610062773

      This paragraph holds important clues regarding the next twelve Days Of Our Lives:

      “If Mr. Trump wants to avoid a second impeachment, his best path would be to take personal responsibility and resign. This would be the cleanest solution since it would immediately turn presidential duties over to Mr. Pence. And it would give Mr. Trump agency, a la Richard Nixon, over his own fate.”

      • 0 avatar
        ToolGuy

        Suggested background reading (sorry to be four years late):

        https://tinyurl.com/gt5g4at

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          ToolGuy,

          you got me on ANTIFA viking. I’ve first heard about it from Gaetz during hearings. I thought his info comes from FBI or Police. I started to look and found associated images.
          However, ANTIFA participation is still not out of question. These guys were plain-dressed. But there were others, dressed equipped and looked like ANTIFA we know. Check the video – who was breaking the window, not these guys. This is where we probably see ANTIFA https://t.me/sanya_florida/266?single
          Same umbrella technique, black clothes, etc. And looks like instigating the police.

        • 0 avatar

          That was Trumps role. He was elected to destroy The System, or Washington. And he did it brilliantly. He is not needed anymore. Washington engaged into self-destruct mode. That what democrats will do these 4 years. They will bring the system to its absurd logical end.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        ToolGuy,

        this is shame and fake media hits again. Because last night, those who wanted to see it, already found these Capitol breakers on the photos of other riots across the nation. The “Viking” guy and others are ANTIFA philadelphia branch. These are not Trump’s people. They instigated it. It is so obvious. There are already pictures of them floating around from antifa phila org. The fact is, congress already knew last night that facial recognition matched these dudes to ANTIFA rioters from last year. Is this Trump’s fault? Even he now thinks this is his supporters did this.

        • 0 avatar
          ToolGuy

          @slavuta, We should be confident before making such claims. Are you confident?

          https://www.factcheck.org/2021/01/bogus-antifa-claims-follow-capitol-riot/

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          “The viking guy”

          “Jake Angeli, who is widely known as the “QAnon Shaman,” has been spotted in the same costume at other pro-Trump rallies and counterprotests throughout 2020, and likewise was photographed numerous times during Wednesday’s mayhem on Capitol Hill”

          Since when did Antifa and QAnon unite?

    • 0 avatar
      Ol Shel

      I think the opposite. This SAVES the GOP, giving them an out. They pretend to be disgusted by the outcome, and slither back to being the same old Republicans they were before Trump. The small number that remain Trump-ish are in safe districts. The Gohmerts were there before Trump, and they’ll remain.

      And the rabid Republican primary voter will be split into those who pretend that they never liked Trump “not a real conservative”, and those who stop participating.

      If Trump hadn’t done this, the GOP would have been phukked, because he would retain control over their voters.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        @Ol Shel:

        If the Trumpsters split off from the GOP, they’re well and truly screwed. Same would be true if the Bernie/AOC/Squad types split from the Democrats and formed a party.

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        Ol Shel,

        “If Trump hadn’t done this, the GOP would have been phukked”

        So, let me see. Trump “incited” this “coup” attempt by telling his supporters to just go home and that violence isn’t the answer. And, scads of right wing “extremist” came to DC to over throw the gummint. Right? And, these are the same people who support the 2nd amendment and even encourage people to own guns. Right? They own lots of guns. Right? They decided to come to DC to stage a coup, but they left all those guns at home. Right? There are no allegations that these right wing “extremist” fired even a single shot. Right? Then after a while milling around inside the capitol, they just all leave. Right?

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Old_WRX

          “Right?Right?Right?Right?”

          They have not even set that brothel on fire!

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Old_WRX

          “Are they trying to get us to believe that that mess at the capitol the other day was an attempted coup?”

          They want blood and will call this circus all the serious words. But I know exactly what it was – bunch of horny people found a local brothel where ancient workers selling every service they could.

          “killers in white coats”
          yea. First thing to do when you try to overthrow the US gov, you do it under US flag. Arrest anyone who carried US flag into US Capitol! Because if you carry US flag, you are bad actor. We don’t know, are you on our side or some other. We will eliminate you just in case.
          Sound like they’ve read all the right books.

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            slavuta,

            I know too many “Right?”‘s. Sometimes trying to communicate can be frustrating:-) This stuff with them trying to take down parler and banning Trump on social media seems to say that things will get interesting sooner rather than later. Obviously they were ready and were just waiting for the confirmation.

            I expect we’re going to see a rapid increase in “fact checking.” It makes me feel safe having these “fact checkers” making sure we don’t get any fake news.

            For hundreds or thousands of years there have been people dreaming of being able to take over the whole world and have complete control over everything. One question I have is, as they get really close to achieving that (somewhat dubious) goal, what will happen between them. It’s one thing to cooperate on a distant goal, but quite another when it gets to where success seems to be pretty much guaranteed. Will they still cooperate or will they start clawing each other’s eyes out. The rich and powerful don’t always play nice. Comments?

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      Not a chance for any of that to happen. The Rs will re-unite when the first Biden legislation appears that they think can be blocked.

      Not long ago, the Rs had all three branches of government. Nothing really changed. Liberals feared an overturn of Roe-v-Wade, and a host of other sweeping changes. None of it happened.

      We all benefit from the extreme inefficiency of government – nothing changes very quickly.

      As for one-party rule, it can be argued that we’ve had it for 50 years. One thing which unites the Rs and Ds is their fear of a third party rising to draw power away from themselves.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        @SCE: yep, every four years we get the “elect this guy and America is doomed” argument. And it’s garbage. We survived some of the worst, most incompetent, most corrupt presidents possible, and we’re still here.

        • 0 avatar
          Lie2me

          Right now we’re hanging by a thread, but, yeah we’re still here

          • 0 avatar
            jkross22

            Lie2me,

            I think we’re a lot more durable than hanging by a thread. It never seems that way, but look to our neighbors to the South for an example of how durable institutions are. Mexico’s gone through much worse than what we’re going through. That doesn’t fit a marketable narrative though, so you won’t hear it.

            My concern is our elected leaders will take the wrong lessons from this experience, as they nearly always do. That’s how we got the Patriot Act and domestic surveillance programs and secret FISA courts.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            jkross22, again, I hope you’re right, but have you seen what just now happened to Lindsey Graham in an airport by extreme right Trumpsters?

            He predicted years ago, “if we nominate Trump we will get destroyed and we will deserve it”

            https://twitter.com/i/status/1347633020539346944

          • 0 avatar
            jkross22

            Lie2me,

            I think the mob that stormed the capital and the hecklers at the airport will lose. Yelling doesn’t convince people you’re right… it convinces people you’re nuts. They’re like people at a football game that’s watched their team lose, but they’re hammered so they act like fools.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            jkross22, Crazy never rules an empire, but it sure has brought a few down

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Lie2me

            “Funny how the “U” and “A” are nowhere near each other on a keyboard.”

            What if you type “Giy”? “i” is next to “y”. And what suggestions you get? “gay”, “guy”

            How does it feel now? Unicorn may not exist. But there is a whole herd of donkeys

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      ILO,

      this is what I’ve said all along. 2 weeks and America is finished. You know why? Because nobody will stand up, let alone die for this government. People will fight with each other and with the government. Military will come in, and will have to take control. Democracy is over at that point

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        I never had a doubt this will happen. And this is a first ring. Now they’ve built a wall around Capitol, distancing our rulers even further from the people.

        Remember 1991 when tens of thousands of armed soldiers came to Moscow with tanks to restore order? Boris Yeltsin did not hide. He climbed one of these tanks to give a speech to these soldiers, teaching them democracy.
        Earlier, in 1989, Captain Putin with AKS-74 in hands confronted raging crowd of East Germans and told them not to even try entering Russian compound.
        Few months ago, Belarus president Lukashenko went down into the crowd that was chanting “leave!” to him, and talked to the people face to face.

        And look at our rats! They all rushed to the bunker and those who did not make it to the exit door, hid behind chairs.

        And Transportation chair got “terrorized” by these events from the comfort of her home. Gosh…

      • 0 avatar
        ToolGuy

        @slavuta, “2 weeks and America is finished.”

        Can we agree to re-evaluate your prophecy on January 22? [Maybe you are right, maybe no. Let’s discuss then.]

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          ToolGuy,

          this is not what I’ve said. What I did say is that when something starts, it will take 2 weeks to bring this country down. I am not saying, this is already started and countdown is on. No. Read about 1905 Russian Revolution. America right now in is that position. We have prolonged struggle of identity and freedom. This can go for awhile. Then will be a quick one. 2 weeks, and done.
          The point is, when our politicians say, “this is unamerican”, “we can’t have mess, blood”… This is BS. We can have it just like any other country. Ask George Washington

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          ToolGay,

          what did I tell you? Can’t deny when antifa talks itself

          “[antifa dude] reportedly was arrested in connection with protests back in Utah over the summer and admitted climbing into the Capitol through a window.”

          This is the guy who stood next to a fallen girl.

          “His Insurgence USA group’s website advertised an event called “Kick These Fascists out of DC” on Wednesday around the same time as a pro-Trump rally near the National Mall.”

          So, yep, antifa was also there

          • 0 avatar
            ToolGuy

            @slavuta,

            Are you talking to me? You misspelled my name. (Is it intended to be insult? I don’t understand. Do you care about my sexual preferences? [They are unremarkable and dull.] Do you accuse me of being effeminate? [Yes I have sewing machine – someone has to hem daughter’s prom dress (by the way, are you familiar with use of rolled-hem presser foot? it is confusing for me). Yes I make soup – but I don’t wear apron.] Do you dislike women? [I like some women, dislike others.])

            Petty name-calling is low form of argument – you can do better.

            Anyway, I have no special insight for who was at Capitol and who was not. But before you post, please check sources. Because now you adjust your storyline in public. It is bad form.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            @Toolguy:

            “…you can do better.”

            No, he can’t. It’s all argument by way of misdirection and silly rhetoric. This is a guy who spouts nonsense like “look at how foolish we look in Ukraine,” as if that actually matters.

            He’s got nothin’. Don’t waste your time.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          ToolGuy,

          don’t melt. It wasn’t intentional. Just fat fingers. I give no [email protected] about anyone’s preferences. But yea, my initial reaction was too quick. But now we know that antifa was there along with others.

          • 0 avatar
            ToolGuy

            “don’t melt”

            Ah, now I am snowflake. Another ad-hominem. Do you listen? Maybe you don’t listen.

            [Finger is very fat indeed to reach from U key to A key. “It wasn’t intentional.” Is this The Truth About Comments? Maybe you will reconsider.]

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            @toolguy:

            Like I said…don’t bother.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          ToolGuy,
          I said, it wasn’t intentional. You’re calling yourself a snowflake. I simply found that you could just point out – hey look how you wrote my name, before going into sewing machine logic.

          My text editor “fixed” it for me, ok? If I wanted to misspell your name I wouldn’t even answer after your call for “truth”. Do you want the truth or you want to see what you want to see?

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            Funny how the “U” and “A” are nowhere near each other on a keyboard. Your fingers are either very fat or this is another example of Trump truth. My gut says the later

            Q: Whats the difference between a smart Russian and a unicorn?

            A: Nothing, they’re both fictional characters

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      ILO,

      “prosecution and jailing of political opponents in near future”

      Yup. This thing at the capitol is all part of the endless propaganda push to demonize anyone who opposes the socialist coup in the US. The commies are quite famous for their thoroughness with lists of “enemies.” Now, aided with AI applied to internet (and other) snooping, they will be able to identify any online comments opposing them (such as many posts on this site). But, we shouldn’t forget that they are big on “guilt by association.” Taking part in a conversation such as this present one may be enough to get oneself labeled an enemy of the people — even if you’re commenting are on their side.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        Old_WRX,

        you see what I see. Dems already looking to capitalize big on few idiots entering the Capitol. Who cares that Seattle downtown was taken away from US and a government of […] was formed. But Dems now talking – Cruz must resign, SCOTUS Justice must retire, etc etc etc.
        Political prosecution is already here.

        One thing that warms my heart is that eventually, Dem supporters will see that they are also oppressed. And they will try to say something. At that time dems will hit them hard. Remember how those Bolsheviks who did the hardest work were eliminated because they realized, “wait a minute, this is not what we’ve imagined..” too late

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          slavuta,

          “wait a minute, this is not what we’ve imagined..”

          Yeah, they will see it. But, by then it will most likely too late to do anything about it. And they will get whacked down until the rest of them get the message. Though it’s important to remember that these people never just cut off the rot — they cut much deeper than that to make sure they got it all. When it starts in the general population they will live in terror.

        • 0 avatar

          Slavuta, “We learn from history that we do not learn from history.”

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Inside Looking Out

            Most important is to know that left dont understand this. Their policy is a dead end from the start. Seems they don’t see the trend. They always take power, poop peoples lives and go into oblivion. Poland, Hungary, UK, Right political parties winning elections all over Europe. Catalunya tries to leave Spain.
            And tighter they turn the key here, sooner their end will come. I predict states will stop fulfilling federal orders, form the coalitions and one day, they will find out that nothing attaches them to the feds.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        Old_WRX

        we’re malignant! What malignant people do?

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          slavuta,

          “we’re malignant!”

          I’ve been called worse. Though I really prefer to be labeled malevolent rather than malignant — malignant sounds too much like a tumor. I don’t think they believed that thing I said about “guilt by association”…You know?

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    Rats jumping ship. Can’t really blame them but then hitching your star to someone who is unhinged is never a good move.

  • avatar
    Nick_515

    Real American dissidents, these ones.

  • avatar
    Lou_BC

    TTAC

    The Truth About Chao…..

    Mic drop

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    Anyone else think someone sent her the text of the 25th Amendment, and she decided to skip that party?

    On a positive note, though, I hear Omarosa might be coming back for a
    “Trump Flameout Apprentice” special. Winner gets the stationery that guy lifted from Nancy Pelosi’s desk.

    Ah well…can’t say I blame her for dropping the mic early on this dumpster fire.

  • avatar
    Turbo Is Black Magic

    Who would have thought electing a narcissistic, insecure, reality TV star, con-man with no governing experience would turn out so poorly…

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      Ah true, but the opposition hasn’t exactly been a shining city upon a hill either.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        You’re not wrong, but here’s the difference: you can argue (with some success) that “the other side’s” policies were a dumpster fire, but this is the first time in my historical memory that we’ve had a head of state who is HIMSELF a dumpster fire. That’s not something we’ve really seen before. Whatever people think of Trump the policy maker, there’s little argument that Trump’s personal leadership has been absolutely horrid.

        People have long argued how much character and conduct count in a president; well, the Trump Experience should settle that argument pretty decisively. EVERYTHING for the last four years has been about him. Well, anyone who’s dealt with toxic narcissistic creep knows how that story ends – it usually ends in disaster, the toxic narcissist walks away while blaming everyone else for said disaster, and everyone around the toxic narcissist pays the price. That’s exactly what’s happening on a national scale here.

        Anyone who supports his policies should be mad as hell, because his bulls**t behavior has dwarfed anything he’s actually accomplished in office. Biden didn’t win because of his policy positions – he won because people have had enough of Trump’s antics.

  • avatar
    Sobro

    Why the clickbait, TTAC?

  • avatar
    Pig_Iron

    “Trump’s demands that the election be overturned in his favor.”
    Whoa TTAC, you so are blatantly politically biased. Here is Trump condemning violence and “ensuring a smooth, orderly, and seamless transition”:

    • 0 avatar
      Lie2me

      Yeah, now that he knows he’s going to jail

      • 0 avatar
        SCE to AUX

        Yes, he’s trying to provide some statements for use as evidence later on. He’s not going to do anything to help Biden in the next 12 days.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          No one’s prosecuting Trump, and you know what? I don’t think we should. I don’t think he should be impeached either. Either action just reinforces his self-victimization strategy. It’s not productive. Remember, this is a guy who’s famous for being famous, and for people like that, ANY press – good or bad – helps them.

          Just make sure the guy isn’t going to do anything really crazy – like deciding to nuke Tehran on his way out the door – and move on in two weeks.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      They are just lying. President literally said, “I know everyone here will soon be marching to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard”

      https://youtu.be/HrGJfQzUrnY?t=13933

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    I would not be surprised to see Chao in either a future cabinet position or an advisor. Eventually there will be another Republican President. Many of these former cabinet members seem to reappear and never really leave.

    • 0 avatar
      honda1

      @Jeff S
      Unfortunately you are wrong, there will not be another republican president. The next 2 years will be the ruin of our great country. We now have a far left government and enough stupid people that hate our country and what we have. Too many funbkalls that want free stuff and the libs will give it to them for votes, though that really doesn’t matter now when the can just send ballots out to everybody and change the rules with now checks and balances. Y’all made your bed, now you gonna have to sleep in it.

      @slavuta
      You hit the nail on the head!

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        The wealthy got more “free stuff” under Trump then any other president in history. Are you wealthy? If so, I understand your position

        • 0 avatar
          Art Vandelay

          The allure was less “I get free stuff” and more “I get to keep more of my own stuff”.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            The “free stuff” has always belonged to all of us (taxes), but the very wealthy got to keep more of their “stuff” then the rest of us

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            Nonsense. The very wealthy provide 90 percent of the free stuff and half this country pays nothing at all.

            If you are paying 40 grand in taxes and a new law lowers it to 37 grand, you aren’t getting anything free. If you pay zero taxes and then come tax time through the use of “credits” you end up getting a refund that is actually larger than your entire annual withholding and throughout the course of the year the government writes you a bunch of checks in the name of “stimulus” then you are receiving free stuff.

            Taxes are necessary. There are things that should be provided at no cost to certain members of society. But the tax code isn’t giving free anything to wealthy people. That’s just good old fashioned class envy.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            Geez, Art, who was the biggest beneficiary of PPP loans? It sure wasn’t the little guy struggling to keep his ma & pa business open

      • 0 avatar
        Arthur Dailey

        Any members of your family use Medicare/Medicaid? Collect Social Security? On disability? Aren’t those socialist programs?

        Those who get the most ‘free stuff’ are the very rich and the companies that produce supplies/equipment for the US military. The phrase coined in Canada is ‘corporate welfare bums’.

        And trying to paint a long time, career politician as ‘far left’ is somewhat delusional.

        Meanwhile Trump has not only created a huge national debt, the US international trade deficit is the worst it has been in 14 years. Trump in power was like the person who rang up his credit cards and loans while bragging about his lifestyle. Oh wait, that is how Trump also ran his businesses, ringing up debts then having them go into bankruptcy.

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          Arthur Dailey,

          “Any members of your family use Medicare/Medicaid? Collect Social Security?”

          I collect SSDI. There is nothing at all socialist about it. It is insurance that I paid for. And, I get Medicare (with a monthly premium). It is also insurance that I paid for.

          Medicaid is not insurance that the beneficiary has paid for. Lumping Social Security and Medicare together with Medicaid is disingenuous.

          Medicaid could be called socialism or charity. But, not Social Security or Medicare.

          • 0 avatar
            notinuse

            Old_WRX, your understanding of Medicare funding is incorrect. The Medicare taxes you and your employer paid to the government cover your Part A benefit, not Parts B or D. Parts B and D are funded differently. The funding is explained here: https://www.medicare.gov/about-us/how-is-medicare-funded

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        “Far left government”

        I would laugh my azz off every time I saw that if it wasn’t for the fact many Americans actually believe that nonsense.

        Virtually every democratically elected country on the planet sits left of centre with socialized medicine and social safety nets.

        Wow. That post WW2 anticommunist propaganda is still paying dividends.

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        honda1,

        “Y’all made your bed, now you gonna have to sleep in it.”

        They ain’t gonna like it. But, they sure did ask for it. It’s a damn shame that the rest of us will get dumped on because of it, though.

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    @Pig Iron:

    Sure, now he wants a smooth transition and denounces violence…after it became painfully apparent that he lost control of the dumpster fire he lit himself. And don’t kid yourself…he lit this fire all on his own. He was the one who tried to bully officials in Georgia to “find votes” for him. He was the one who spouted conspiracy theories for two months to rile up his follower, asked them to come to Washington and “go wild,” and told them to go march on the Capitol.

    You really don’t see any culpability on his part here? Wake up. Set aside the whole “did he incite the riot” and “did he try to overturn the election” arguments – at a bare minimum, asking a bunch of riled-up folks to come to Washington and “go wild,” and then tell these same riled-up folks to go march on the Capitol, was a colossal f**kup waiting to happen.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      Dems still afraid of him. And I like it

      • 0 avatar
        honda1

        Me too, he is going nowhere.

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        I’m not afraid of a pants-pooping coward, I’m disgusted by him

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          Lie2me,

          “I’m not afraid of a pants-pooping coward”

          I assume you are alleging that Trump is a “pants-pooping coward.” Not a chance. like him or not he is no coward.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            Trump’s a coward. He told the protesters he’d be with them. Um…where was he? He bribed a porn star so she wouldn’t report he was cheating on his pregnant wife. He tried to extort a foreign leader for dirt on a political opponent because he was afraid to lose. He lied about losing the election because his cowardly ego could not accept loosing. He surrounded himself with enablers because he is too afraid of the truth.

            Only a coward would incite a riot instead of admitting he lost.

  • avatar
    ajla

    Anyone that think Trump leaving is going to fix things is delusional. The right and left are both doubling down on their base instincts and there’s no release valve. We’re heading into 1970s Northern Ireland.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      You are correct on the first assertion and I hope like hell you’re incorrect on the second.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      The Troubles if we’re lucky.

      Funny how in only twenty years they took a stable superpower and turned it into Jerry Springer. Even Rome took more than two decades to break down in a similar fashion.

      • 0 avatar
        jkross22

        28-cars-later,

        If memory serves, Rome fell due to a number of issues:

        – overexpansion of military
        – reliance on slave labor
        – overspending
        – ineffective leadership and corruption

        We’re fine – nothing similar to this…. Move along… nothing to see here.

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        28-Cars-Later,

        “in only twenty years”

        Quite something all right. At least in my perception of this, it more or less started on 9/11/01 with the great bellicose fart of the whole WTC thing.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          Yup and now we’re in season 20 of our show. Wonder what the character arcs will be this time?

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            28-Cars-Later,

            “Wonder what the character arcs will be this time?”

            Some might suggest that they will make idiots of themselves. Do you think Joe knows he’s president? I was almost going to ask whether he was too busy indulging in a certain unsavory behavior the conspiracy theorist have accused him of to notice that he won the election [sic].

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I’m going to be watching for subtle physical/personal inconsistencies in his public appearances. He is not in good shape and will likely be using body doubles.

    • 0 avatar
      Arthur Dailey

      I have stated many times that the USA should have allowed the Confederate states to secede. They Confederacy would have remained a backwater, agricultural nation, while the USA could have expanded and excised the problems that have continued in or associated with the Deep South.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        I’d argue that having the Confederacy as a less-affluent, less-developed, unstable neighbor would present many of the same issues the U.S. has with present-day Mexico. It’d have been a total headache. I could see Britain intervening in Confederate politics to re-establish a foothold in North America as well – the Brits were de facto Confederate allies during the Civil War, and weren’t too keen on having lost the Revolutionary War. I think they’d have loved to have stuck it to the Yankees. None of that would have been a positive development, if you ask me.

        The big mistake wasn’t taking the former Confederate states back in – it was ending reconstruction, which allowed them to continue as the Confederacy.

        • 0 avatar
          ajla

          Yes, I think Arthur is underestimating the impact of allowing the CSA to secede. Having a large, semi-hostile plutocrat nation a few miles from your capital city with a sizeable amount of men-at-arms would be bad. The CSA also had nontrivial support in Europe and, more importantly, in the Western territories.

          You’re also talking about a “Twilight Zone” situation. The world we are in today isn’t the same one that would exist if the USA split up in the 1860s.

          No one here is on the $5 bill or has monument to us, so I’ll defer to Lincoln here.

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        Arthur, I most always agree with you, but not this time

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        Allowing “The South” to cede would have just set up an environment for a 2nd war. A hostile country on the border of a new fledgling country eventually would result in another war. That would have been worse since the fledgling USA’s enemies would arm and fund “the South”.
        People forget or aren’t taught that the “colony’s” successful rebellion from the British was because they got help from other countries like France. The British were spread thin dealing with the French, Spanish, and Portuguese in the America’s as well trying to maintain the British Empire. The USA wasn’t a superpower at that time. The British were.

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          Lou_BC,

          “People forget or aren’t taught ”

          Yeah, a lot of times people make it sound like the colonies licked the whole british empire single handed. In reality the empire had a lot of other problems.

  • avatar
    Dave M.

    Too late. You’ve got the Trump stench on you.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    @honda1–So are you implying that there never will be another Republican President? How do you know who will be elected as President in 4 or even 8 years? What you don’t understand is that Presidents come and go but many of the bureaucrats remain. As for the country being ruined I would rather have a liberal leaning government than a dictatorship which is what we would have if you have a coup? I would rather have neither but right wing extremists are just as dangerous as left wing extremist and the economy and the stock market reacts negatively to both. I am fearful of any leader who incites their supporters to overthrow the government. Republicans need to decide if they want to be a party of fiscal responsibility and go back to being less extreme. It doesn’t benefit the USA to have just 1 dominate political party. Now lets get back to cars, trucks, crossovers, and suvs which is why most of us visit the site for.

    • 0 avatar
      Pig_Iron

      Welcome to the one party state.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        Blah blah blah…listen to the silly self-victimization here. If we become a one party state, then the GOP can certainly take its’ share of blame for it. No one forced them to ride the Trump Train, dude. They did it all on their own. The American people decided they had fill of it, and threw them out of power.

        Now, what if the GOP had run someone who wanted to follow Trump’s policy agenda, but didn’t have Trump’s personal failings? Well, the story might be very different today.

        Want to blame someone for that? Fine. Blame 1) Trump, and 2) the GOP for riding his crazy train.

        • 0 avatar
          Pig_Iron

          Communist Bio-Weapon released – Communist Puppet installed

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            The fact that China is no longer even remotely communist would seem to ruin your argument, such as it is. But I digress. You probably don’t even know what communism actually is.

            By the way, once people start dying of the new strain that came here via the UK, be sure to label that the “Britain Virus.” That’ll really show those evil commie Brits they can’t mess with us.

        • 0 avatar
          SCE to AUX

          “Now, what if the GOP had run someone who wanted to follow Trump’s policy agenda, but didn’t have Trump’s personal failings? Well, the story might be very different today.”

          Agreed on that point. Actually, if Trump had shown an ounce of sympathy for Covid victims and encouraged even a modest masking protocol, I think he would have been re-elected.

          But he is incapable of that. His “smooth transition” comments from today should have been uttered in November, and were certainly scripted by his lawyer.

          Perversely, these episodes (BLM, Covid, Election 2020, Capitol riots) may serve the country well, so that people can reconsider their affiliations.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “so that people can reconsider their affiliations.”

            There is much truth to that statement. I prefer looking at political parties based on performance while in office. Did they do what they said they would do? Did that benefit the “greater good”? And finally, have they strayed too far left or right from centre?

            I prefer a centrist government that governs for the greater good of the country. I don’t care if they are slightly left or right of centre. I’ll vote right-wing if there is too much shift left or I disagree with their policies.

        • 0 avatar
          jkross22

          Mike,

          The CCP is still quite Communist. Ask a Uigar. Ask a Hong Konger. Ask some of the Chinese diaspora about harassment by Chinese authorities. You could ask the doc who tried to communicate about COVID, but he was muzzled by the CCP and then died.

          Jack Ma, Alibaba’s founder, hasn’t been seen in months after criticizing the CCP’s financial policies.

          We have to separate our fools, idiots and the broadly defined 15 watt bulbs from those running ‘re-education camps’ and a government that runs forced sterilization programs.

          https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/china-conducting-mass-sterilization-muslim-minorities-amount-genocide/story?id=71519132

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            jkross22,

            CCP is semi-totalitarian, semi-authoritarian regime. But not communist. They are pretty capitalist. Even too much sometimes because, for example, many Chinese don’t have pensions and children must take care of parents.

          • 0 avatar
            jkross22

            I might be splitting hairs, but totaltarianism is where the individual is subordinate to the state and authoritarian regimes are those that favor authority over individual freedom.

            China may run a command economy with an asterisk, but it’s most definitely an totaltarian and authoritarian government.

            When a government facilitates forced organ harvesting of prisoners as China continues to do, calling it authoritarian and totaltarian is the nicest thing you could say.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            @jkross:

            What you’re talking about is totalitarianism, not communism. Those are two separate things. And, yes, China is a totalitarian country.

            You provide the proof in your own post: Jack Ma, multibillionaire. If China were still a communist country, Jack Ma would never have gotten rich. No one there would have.

            China stopped being a communist country LONG ago, but it never stopped being totalitarian.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            jkross22,
            there are really no pure systems any longer in the word. US was a socialist state for awhile. We have government pensions, medical care and public housing and transportation programs. However, until now we had [to some degree] freedom. You were free to go your path, build an empire (Gates, Home Depot) or end up in public housing if you can’t or don’t want to make it.
            Freedom vs Equality. The new incoming gov. obviously goes for equality. You will not have freedom. You will need to conform to the endless regulations on who you must hire, read, denounce, etc. They will make sure that you can’t go ahead, that would be racist. And that will be totalitarian regime.
            Here is why. Democracy was invented as a tool to make everyone participating in the governing to improve lives of many. But today we have people who made democracy a golden goat. And the tool they use to achieve it? – totalitarian obedience.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @slavuta “totalitarian obedience”

            Kinda like Trump and any underling that doesn’t do exactly what he says?

            or like Christian Fundamentalists trying to force women to be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen?

            or like those Christian Fundamentalists and gay conversion therapy?

            or like Rump supporting Christian Fundamentalists by trying to ban Muslims?

            or the fact that blacks are much more likely to end up in jail or killed by law enforcement?

            How did that war on cannabis work out?

            PUHLEEZE lay off the whole “loose your freedom if the left gets elected” schtick.

            Playing on people’s fears and insecurities is the most commonly used ploy by those with nothing better to say!

        • 0 avatar
          MKizzy

          “Now, what if the GOP had run someone who wanted to follow Trump’s policy agenda, but didn’t have Trump’s personal failings?”

          Subtract the Trump obsession over the border wall and foreign strongmen and that sounds a lot like Pence.

          If the GOP Senators had joined the Dems during Trump’s Impeachment trial last year and thrown him out of office, Pence would’ve likely beaten a more progressive opponent than Biden (who was only nominated because of Trump phobia)like Warren or Sanders and we’d be taking about the beginnings of a new utopia of traditional Conservatism.

  • avatar
    honda1

    @Jeff S
    I understand the presidents come and go and that bureaucrats remain. What you don’t understand is the electorate has changed. The young people are being indoctrinated and buying into the dem aoc crap. Factor that with states mailing out ballots to all and changing the rules,fair elections have no chance. Anyone with 1 ounce of common sense would see that what Pennsylvania and other states did was wrong. Trump is not a right wing extremist. Is he perfect for the, no. Is he an egomaniac, yes. He did a lot of good things for the people and our country. He did not tell his people to over throw the government. The truth will come out that antifa and blm and others caused what happened the other day. All I will say now is y’all got what you wanted. Enjoy your higher taxes and watching your rights slip away.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      You’re right, Trump isn’t a right wing extremist. He’s just a toxic narcissist who made right wing extremist noises. His presidency was one giant ego trip. That’s why he failed.

      And please stop with the “America is doomed” crap. I’ve been listening to that nonsense for 57 years now, and it never comes true. In fact, if you ask me, one of the reasons we’re in the mess we’re in right now is alarmist thinking.

      • 0 avatar
        honda1

        You know why he lost, use that common sense. Y’all got what you wanted. Get back to me in 18 months and tell me what you think. Have a nice day.

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          honda1,

          “Get back to me in 18 months”

          That might end up being impossible. This sort of discussion is unlikely to be tolerated. It would all be “hate” speech.

      • 0 avatar
        Art Vandelay

        @Freedmike I’m sure it may have been before as you point out but none the less your premise is correct. I feel like it was around the time Clinton became President but it certainly could have been before…I was just too young to notice maybe, that both sides shifted to this idea that the other side was a threat to your very existence left unchecked. It seemed to get worse with every administration that followed. I’m certainly not excusing Trump here, not by a long shot. I just feel that the fact that a dude like him could win in the first place was a symptom of those sorts of politics. Sure he had warning signs, but I mean come on…we all know Hillary is going to turn us into Venezuela…or so I was told.

        • 0 avatar
          Lie2me

          Art, have you met Newt Gingrich?

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Art,

          take a note, when things started to become worse in the US, mostly for the people here – when USSR was gone. USSR was a counter force that along the way promoted US government work nicely together against ideology, etc. But with USSR gone, all energy is spent for internal tag-a-war. Listen, if people’s life was not very good in US, USSR would just call on American workers – rise up and defeat your government and live like US in harmony. And the gov. here knew this. Now, people are sheep. No need to keepup with personal freedoms, etc. You are free to do what we’ve told you. Stay at home!

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            You know what Slavuta, if me living in a more volatile country is the price for relegating the USSR to the ashbin of history, I’d pay it every day and twice on Sunday.

            Don’t pretend that the Soviet Union offered this world a single benefit.

          • 0 avatar
            ToolGuy

            “Don’t pretend that the Soviet Union offered this world a single benefit.”

            This comment is really making me think. For example, Cold War spending funded a lot of the clothes on my back as a kid. But then again, I had some really questionable clothing choices (it was the 70’s).

            So you are probably right.

            But I do like this tune:
            https://youtu.be/kCTrNb4uC-Y

            [I listen to it when cashing checks from Nancy Pelosi, the great Party leader.]

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          @Art

          “Don’t pretend that the Soviet Union offered this world a single benefit.”

          Are you kidding? USSR was lightyears ahead of US in many perspectives:
          -Women rights
          -Racial/ethnic equality, although there were some real issue in this area but nothing like US
          -availability of education and medical care to the masses
          -quality of school education

          I tell you what, we did not have freedom of expression of certain ideas but if there was freedom of legally make good living over there, I would stay there. In the 80s it wasn’t Stalin’s USSR. And many things were if not permitted, then just not prosecuted. I understand now that without freedom of expression you can’t achieve changes.

          Besides, if Germans had not attacked USSR, there wouldn’t be US we know today. All the US achievements are based on German and British technology and scientists who came here from Europe over the last 75 years. US would be isolated in the N.America. Unless they would move its troops through Russia. But Stalin wouldn’t trust such development and would never allow large foreign force into his territory.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            Yes, the US war effort was made easier by the fact that Germany invaded Russia.

            But that knife cuts both ways. Suppose we just sat the conflict in Europe out and half the German Army wasn’t tied down sitting in France or hadn’t had to defend Italy. We’d be isolated. You’d be German which let’s be honest, even at their worst wasn’t much worse than the Soviet Union on human rights.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      “The young people are being indoctrinated and buying into the dem aoc crap.”

      Every country with a democratically elected government on this planet with the exception of the USA has socialized medicine and various social safety nets as well as various protections for workers and trade unions.

      That’s normal not far left extremism!

      It’s only viewed as a radical concept in the USA. That’s partially because of all the effort that went into vilifying anything remotely “leftist” post WW2 cold war.

      Rugged individualism IS the indoctrination of choice. Rambo doesn’t win world wars, teamwork and self sacrifice does. You don’t build the greatest economy on the planet one person at a time.

      • 0 avatar
        Art Vandelay

        “Rambo doesn’t win world wars”

        Probably not, but a bunch of random dudes with their long rifles sure managed to turn the tide against the Brits in the 1770s in the southern US while the Continental Army was out perfecting the tactical retreat.

        That rugged individualism combined with the good sense to know when it is time to lay it aside and unite against a common enemy is what has made this nation great.

        We have always erred towards the individual freedom side of the scale. The difference today is that both sides see that common enemy as members of the other political party. That’s a problem. Something something “a house divided”.

        Can you still quote Lincoln? Or is he in the Jefferson/Washington boat nowadays.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Art

          “Suppose we just sat the conflict in Europe out and half the German Army wasn’t tied down sitting in France…”

          you’re into something, this is a great discussion! I tell you off the gate, the Germans had only one way to win that war – if Japan would strike from the East. Consider this fact, Soviets destroyed every 8 out of 10 German divisions. Germans would still need to be in France, Italy, Greece, Balkans, Poland, because those were trouble areas. Consider this, Germans had to dedicate up to 12% of its force behind their front lines in USSR because armies of paramilitaries kept blowing railroads and bridges, or movie theaters full of their soldiers, etc. Once you analyze everything, you will understand that Germans did not have a chance in USSR 1-on-1, even with all those axis they brought with them – Italians, Romanians, Slovaks, Hungarians, Finns and Romanians. They had not enough tanks, guns, trucks or winter-ready equipment and clothing. Their soldiers were on drugs, literally, and that was wearing them out. They had not enough fuel. Their armament system was a disaster. Their chain of command was complicated and confusing. They used every captured soviet tank, gun or mortar they could use. And Soviets knew everything what they were doing. Soviet intelligence operations were tops. Germans were stopped early in 1942, about half year after the start of operation they planned to complete in 3 months. Americans did not even shipped to USSR much at that point. In fact, after Pearl Harbor any plans of shipments were stopped. Shipments started when US saw that Soviets are winning because US did not want to waste the effort and feed the Germans. And when Soviets knew that Japan is not coming, they moved divisions from the East and the rest is history.

    • 0 avatar
      el scotto

      @ honda1 Sir, yes the electorate is changing. It is becoming younger and less white. With these changes it is also becoming more tolerant of people who live different lifestyles and less tolerant of those people or groups who are perceived to be less tolerant of minorities of any type. PENNSYLVANIA REPUBLICANS approved of the mail-in ballots in Pennsylvania. Arizona, arguably one of the reddest of the red states has had successful mail-in balloting for decades. So mail-in balloting is bad in blue states but good in red states? The logic and facts seem to elude us here /s. Trump did incite resurrection, the only question is will there be a flash impeachment next week. Arrests are being made of protestors that stormed our capitol. I really doubt that many of them will be shown to be anifa/blm. Loss of rights is the losing side’s way of saying “booga-booga”. I say this time we’ll get an Attorney General who understands his job is to run the Department of Justice and not be the president’s personal attorney/lapdog.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        “So mail-in balloting is bad in blue states but good in red states?”

        Bad all around.

      • 0 avatar
        honda1

        @el scotto Keep drinking the kool-aid dude. Did Penn change rules? Did they check every ballot? Did they do things in the night? Mail in voting creates opportunities for fraud if someone or state wanted to be fraudulent. Fact is with covid several blue states send mass ballots in the name of covid to be able to create fraud. And they got away with it. Like I said above, y’all made your bed, now you get to sleep in it.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    “You’re right, Trump isn’t a right wing extremist. He’s just a toxic narcissist who made right wing extremist noises. His presidency was one giant ego trip. That’s why he failed.”

    Agree.

    @honda1–Once those younger people get jobs and start looking at the taxes that are taken out of their pay they will be more conservative. Correct Trump cannot be labeled as Right Wing or Conservative Trump is Trump but he has stirred up some conspiracy nuts and some of his more extremist followers. As for rights slipping away both parties are guilty. The one thing you have not taken into account is that things change and if the Democrats go too far in taxes and regulations the voters will vote them out. As for me I want less drama from a President and more stability. I was a life long Republican until the Republicans derailed themselves. I am much more concerned about a stable government and fiscal conservatism than I am about issues like abortion and the right to own assault weapons. We tried before to make abortions illegal and all that happened were backroom abortions and those that have money can just go to another country to have one. Economic stability, healthcare, and a reasonable approach to climate change which neither go to the extremes of Social Darwinism or Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Best case is a stable government and a stable solid economy in which either extreme dominates.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      you’re talking sense here. The only problem, nobody cares about sense. Dems want all the power. They want government to be involved in every aspect of your life. GOP is not far behind.

      • 0 avatar
        ToolGuy

        Recommended for everyone:

        https://www.theadvocates.org/quiz/

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @TooGuy – that was an interesting quiz. It rated me as a “moderate”. That’s where I see myself. There are some here that think I’m a leftwing commie socialist liberal.

          • 0 avatar
            ToolGuy

            The part I like is the ‘grid’ (“Personal Issues” vs. “Economic Issues”; Authoritarian, Progressive, Conservative, Libertarian) which gives you more insight than just ‘right-left.’

            The Powers That Be are happy for us to argue about ‘right’ vs. ‘left,’ when in reality there is a whole other dimension (degree of coercion).

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @TooGuy – Those who look at “bias” tests are usually moderates. Unfortunately every political party has a group of rigid inflexible followers. It’s that 40-50% in the middle that determines elections i.e whether they chose to tilt left or right with that election.

  • avatar
    Lie2me

    BREAKING: Trump has been PERMANENTLY banned from Twitter…

    Suicide Hotline on standby

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      You mean Parler on standby?

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      BREAKING: Parler went down from all the traffic that Trump’s account brought to it.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        “Parler went down”

        So did Stormy…

        I just saw Rump’s future…

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        slavuta,

        Google has removed parler from there app store. Apple and Amazon are threatening to cut services to parler — which would effectively put them out of business.

        Ride ’em cowboy; hear we go. And our new great leader and teacher isn’t even officially the pres yet.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Old_WRX

          “Google has removed parler from there app store”

          You can still install it from one of the aggregators – sites that keep all versions of phone apps.

          Search “how to install Parler without store”
          Stop using google search. Right now Bing seem working fairly. Also, yandex.com is a solid search engine.

          Also, install App – Telegram while it is still available.

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            slavuta,

            “You can still install it from one of the aggregators – sites that keep all versions of phone apps.”

            Yes, I know that, but you have to remember a lot of people aren’t very computer savvy. If it’s not in play store they are much less likely to install it.

            I never use google search. I avoid google as much as possible — they are intolerable snoops. Better than bing in terms of privacy is duckduckgo.com. Bing is microsoft.
            And, please tell me you aren’t using google’s Chrome.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Old_WRX

          No. I use Firefox and Brave. You should try Brave.
          Let me tell you about google. I think Michael Brin, its founder, who was born in Moscow Russia USSR, is commie implant. And here is why.

          His parents held very important jobs. So important that it would require to be members of the communist party to hold these positions. Then they requested permission to leave, in the end of 1970s. And were given. Soviets would never let such people go with all the information and knowledge. But here is where big red flag pops up – it took them less then a year from application to permission. Read about “otkazniki” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refusenik

          “many were refused permission to emigrate, either immediately or after their cases would languish for years”
          People with the status of Brin’s parents would be sitting on the luggage for at least 5 and up to 10 years. And yet, they were let go in less than a year. This is to me a red flag and might mean that they were “legals”. It is a known fact that many people who came here in the 70s were not oppressed political prisoners or Jews. They were criminals who were sent here under guise of the above. This is how Russian Mafia started in NYC. Most of these criminals were given little choice – leave or get shot. And many of them fit right-in into Brighton Beach, also called Little Odessa. Odessa, which is Ukraine today was sort of like Chicago, only worse. One time they said there were 20K gangsters in there. And many were in fact Jews. Odessa is Jewish city. So they were fitting for immigration to USA.

          Back to Brin, if his family was implant, they thought him well values of collectivism. He did not become a great computer scientist because he learned in America. He became that because his parents are high scientists. And they did not only transferred their skills but also political views. He is as left as it comes. Full circle back to Yuri Bezmenov. Brin is not a coincidence. He is here with the mission, of which he might does not even know. We can’t be sure 100% but there are abnormal patterns of Brin immigration. Mr. Putin could easily bring some havoc into this if he would find some paper signed by Brin’s parents and KGB, but it is not going to happen for another 10 years at least, because of the classified expiration time, or while participants are alive.

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      Very brave to ban him a few days before he leaves office and you’ve spent 4 years cashing in on his antics.

      This is no different than Trump’s “Peaceful Transition” statements…too little, too late.

      These platforms were leveraged by foreign powers to attempt to influence an election. They did nothing meaningful in response. They served as an amplifier for radical nonsense. They did nothing.

      Good luck with the changes coming down the pipe with respect to anti trust and immunity from lawsuits (which is what this is about, again like Trump).

      Tech changes. USENET begat AOL chat rooms which begat AOL instant Messenger which begat MySpace and brought us to Facebook and Twitter. We shall see what is next but make no mistake, it will be arriving soon. Maybe Zuck, Jack and Steve Case can down a few beers and talk about the good old days while firing up Netscape.

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        Art Vandelay,

        “Firing up Netscape.”

        Maybe I missed something, but last I checked Netscape had been renamed Firefox and was still reasonably alive. Mozilla became Netscape became Firefox.

        • 0 avatar
          Art Vandelay

          Not quite. IIRC Mosaic begat Netscape. Mosaic continued to be developed at some level and Netscape eventually was sold to AOL. The Mosaic fork eventually evolved into firefox.

          They are related, but firefox didn’t straight evolve from the Netscape codebase.

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            Yes, NCSA Mosaic preceded Netscape. I still use Lynx when needed. It preceded Mosaic and is still actively maintained. It’s from 1992.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    @slavuta–Our politicians are our elected royalty. Agree both parties want power.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      Royalty isn’t elected. Being royalty is based upon f^cking the right blood line. Being a politician is about f^cking everyone for personal gain. That’s why Rump was a natural… well, until everyone got really sick and tired of him.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        Obama was rebuke to the years of elite stagnation. But he ended up one of them. He fully embraced the position and never delivered the good change. This is why Trump was elected. And Biden… he wasn’t elected of course. Nobody seem remembers that shenanigans within democrat party lead to denial of Bernie Senders of his glory. I would respect Senders. He is natural. Biden is fake.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @Slavuta- When you talk about Obama you kinda conveniently left out all the obstruction from McConnell and the Senate. Too many people assume the position of President is all powerful. It’s a lame duck position if the other branches of government don’t play ball.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Lou_BC,

            in fact, I am the first line of those who understands US president is weak persona without congress. I knew this before I lived in US because Churchill liked to work with Stalin and not FDR. He said something like, “I like to work with uncle Joe, his word is instant and final. Roosevelt constantly needs approval from the Congress..”

            Obama however, had his time and pushed that stupidity called ACA, a bill that wasn’t read by most in congress.
            This is good that US gov has a lot info on the web. In 2008 US had 5815 hospitals. By 2016 – 5534. But some where new while over a thousand closed due to ACA, still, net loss for Obama.
            Under Trump, from 2017 and 2018 Us had over 6100 hospitals. Do you see what liberating policies do? And these are extra beds that would be useful for COVID. We had about 924,000 beds in 2018 and 1.5M in 1975. Considering population increase, this is huge loss of beds.

            In Putin’s Russia, last year they build 40 COVID hospitals. Look how — https://i.insider.com/5e82325a14f18f51f81fbf57?width=1000&format=jpeg&auto=webp

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        Lou_BC,

        “Royalty isn’t elected.”

        Apparently, neither are our politicians.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @Old_WRX – good one

          but ….after 60 plus at bats with the courts, there wasn’t any evidence of systemic election fraud that could of turned the tide. Trump’s recent call to Georgia is good evidence to support the lack of fraud. Trump claimed 3,000 dead people voted. Evidence showed only 2 cases and IIRC they were for Trump.
          Allowing mail-in voting, expanding mail-in voting or changing deadlines in advance of an election isn’t fraudulent.

          Trump lost in a free and fair election.

          • 0 avatar
            honda1

            So the mass ballots being mailed out, the rules being changed in Penn for example and others, all of those ballots not being checked properly when returned is fair????

            C’mon man, use common sense.

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            “So the mass ballots being mailed out,”

            While I can’t say for sure what happened everywhere, but where I live and many other places, they mailed out absentee ballot applications. Not ballots, but applications. I didn’t send mine in and there were no issues with my early vote. My daughter applied, they verified her signature etc, then they sent the ballot. She filled it out and dropped it off at town hall. They verified the signature again. There was also a state ballot tracking system where you could go on-line and check your ballot status.

            Many of these changes were good. Keeping people from waiting in long lines is a good thing. We’re in a pandemic, so keeping people away from the polls was a good idea. Early voting is a good thing since it does give more of an opportunity to verify voters and ballots.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @honda1 “C’mon man, use common sense.”

            I’ll repeat this again:

            Occam’s razor- the simplest answer among answers is usually the correct one. Or more basic: K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Stupid.

            A vast conspiracy to cheat Trump out of an election win is exceptionally complex and therefore exceptionally difficult to conceal.

            A vast conspiracy to fake a riot by Antifa is also exceptionally complex and difficult to hide.

            K.I.S.S.
            Trump was sh!tty at his job and disliked by a majority of voters THEREFORE Trump LOST.

            Trump, Rudy, and others for months lied about a fair election. 62 court cases many officiated by Trump appointed judges ALL rejected Trump’s “evidence”. They then fired up the angry protesters. The fuse was lit and aimed.

            No mass conspiracy.

            Just a sh!tty leader that the majority of Americans wanted out of office.

            That’s simple. That’s “common” knowledge. That’s it!

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            Lou_BC,

            “Trump lost in a free and fair election.”

            Doesn’t really matter whether it was “fair” or not. Does it? Biden is in, elected or not. You got your guy. Just be happy about it.

            I hope you are right that Biden/Harris will be OK. I truly do.

            So, are you in favor of all the people being banned by social media? What is your read on the motivation for this? What positive effect do you think this could have?

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @ Old_WRX – “I hope you are right that Biden/Harris will be OK. I truly do.”

            I haven’t expressed my opinions on their new term in office. I do not envy Biden/Harris. They’ve got themselves elected into a sh!tshow. They have to clean up from Trump’s divisiveness nationally and internationally along with trying to stabilize a global health crisis all the while teetering on the edge of financial disaster. Add to that a hostile Iran, Russia, North Korea and China.

            I do believe that Biden is a honorable man and will work with both sides of the political divide.

            “So, are you in favor of all the people being banned by social media? What is your read on the motivation for this? What positive effect do you think this could have?”

            Social media is privately owned. They make the rules along with complying with federal law. They can ban whomever they want. It’s ironic that they never censored Trump until now.

            Their motivation? Guilt? fear of liability?
            They allowed misinformation and disinformation to circulate and fester for a long time.
            I’d say that doing it now was due to a large amount of cowardice on their part. They banned Trump at the end of his term since he’s no longer in a position to harm them financially.

            The positive effect?
            Hard to tell other than shutting up Trump in the short term and reducing the harm he could still do.
            Free speech needs to exist with responsibility.
            Free speech requires those speaking to respect the inherent responsibilities that come with exercising that freedom.
            Trump grossly abused his responsibility to speak freely. He lied incessantly and due to his position those lies have been believed by a huge amount of people.

            We’ve seen that most of the rules governing presidential behavior are just norms developed by men of character. They aren’t legal constructs. I do see an need for congress to replace norms with laws.

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      Lou_BC,

      “I do see an need for congress to replace norms with laws.”

      I rather think that trying to enforce honorable behavior via legislation is a fools errand. All that that produces is a superficial, ritualistic following of rules. Unfortunately what is wrong in American society runs much deeper than its political problems. The absolute trash behavior in politics (and, no, it isn’t just on one side of the aisle) is only a symptom of moral bankruptcy. “Do the right thing” has been supplanted by “don’t get caught.” The idea that almost any level of skullduggery is acceptable in business has become alarmingly prevalent.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    @Lou_BC–You forget this is America and we elect our royalty. The reason our elected officials are royalty is that many of forget they are elected and have the attitude they are entitled to their office.

  • avatar
    el scotto

    For the usual Useful Idiots UIs)who post on here. Saying that no one is willing to die for the US is an insult to the veterans on this site. Thankfully veteran’s reactions run the gamut from “incensed” to “Tomorrow I hope I get to Panera Bread before they run out sticky buns”. We’ve that right. Everyone in the US Military has sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States. The Constitution of the United States, not who ever is in power at that time. Military members can also refuse an unlawful order. That situation is almost always presented in theory and not in fact. For the UIs attempting to present US history and then use the history of another country is specious at best. UIs please note that trying to compare the actions of other governments that aren’t constitutional democracies to the US government is also specious at best. Unemployment is a tax that is partially paid by the individual. I used to seasonally unemployed. Saves for it, planned for it, and played euchre and ate doughnuts at the unemployment office. Social Security and Medicare are government mandated safety nets where most of us will draw out more than we ever paid in. Hopefully the amount of money the government has to pay out will always be more than they have to pay out.

  • avatar
    el scotto

    President Trumped first gained political traction by starting birther-ism. Never mind that John McCain was not born in one of the 48 contiguous states. Hey, any theory is good when it tries to make the other candidate look bad. Right? Never mind President Obama was automatically a US citizen because his mom was a US citizen. Racism may have had a bit to play too. Fast forward to candidate Trump. Chants of “Build That Wall” and “Lock Her Up” permeated Trump’s rallies. Candidate Trump even said, “beat the hell out of him, I’ll pay your legal fees”. Ok, something like that, that’s not a verbatim quote. President Trump openly encourage his followers to go to the capitol. Days after a tape was shown that he tried to coerce a state of Georgia official. Why are we not shocked by his followers actions?

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      I’m not shocked. Just surprised that it hasn’t happened earlier or more often. I’m also surprised that the death toll was so low.

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        Lou_BC,

        “I’m also surprised that the death toll was so low.”

        It is a little surprising. The “God, Guns, and Guts” crowd seems to have forgotten to bring their guns with them. You’d think that if they had come to overthrow the government they would have brought their hardware and used it, but that didn’t happen.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @Old_WRX -It is disingenuous to claim it was a staged event due to a low death toll. Some were apparently carrying weapons. Killing is easier stated than done. We are hardwired to avoid killing in our own species. We even see that in the animal kingdom. It may have been different if there was a better security presence.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Lou_BS

            You got it! We need CIA get on America 1st program, install one here so we can “suppress socialism through” any means possible

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Lou_BC

            you,re still in some racial mode. In reality we are in the midst of class warfare. Look at the BLM. Most of them are white. All these white supremacists, BLM are deep minorities. Majority of people just want jobs, less government. So they can decided for themselves what to do.

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            Lou_BC,

            “claim it was a staged event”

            I didn’t say it was a staged event. But, I do find a lot of it to be more than a bit incongruous. It’s hard to figure exactly what it was all about as far as I’m concerned.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Old_WRX

          again, we need Pinochet to level the field

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @skavuto – Pinochet? Seriously? He was a right wing totalitarian dictator put in place with the help of the CIA. He was part of the CIA’s South American program to suppress socialism through coups, kidnappings, assassinations, incarceration, and torture.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @slavuta –
            “install one here so we can “suppress socialism through” any means possible”

            The USA already has white supremacists. They already are operating their own version of Operation Condor.

            The fact that you would actually make that suggestion is truly pathetic.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    I had hoped once Trump became President that he would rise to the office of President and his rhetoric would tone down but the rhetoric is part of who he is. During my lifetime I never remember a President with so little respect for the office. There can be political differences but most Presidents regardless of political party have been respectful of the Office of the Presidency and have put country first. Country should be before politics.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    @Old_WRX–Maybe so and maybe when first in office their goals are altruistic but many become corrupted by the system. “Power corrupts and Absolute Power corrupts absolutely.” It is human nature for power to go to one’s head.

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      Jeff S,

      “It is human nature for power to go to one’s head.”

      Yes, I think quite a few people get into politics wanting to make a positive difference. But, many become corrupt with greed and power hunger. Also, it is often not possible to stay in the game without, at least to some extent, joining the party. Won’t play ball? You’re out of here.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @Jeff S – a certain amount of narcissism and egotism is required to want to go into political office. Those with sound character and moral compass are better equipped to resist the excesses we’ve seen in the past 4 or so years. The past 4 plus years has shown that most members of the party of the Christian “moral majority” has no morals and will say and do anything to rule as a minority. Stuff like that is why I could no longer remain on the conservative side of the political spectrum. I could not ignore the cognitive dissonance.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Lou_BC

          “a certain amount of narcissism and egotism is required to want to go into political office.”
          —–
          “All very successful commanders are prima donnas and must be so treated”
          — George Patton

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    @Old_WRX–Agree

    @Lou_BC–Agree and I could not have said it any better.

  • avatar
    Lie2me

    BREAKING: Parler is gone for good, but not before it was hacked and every single member’s personal info stolen.

    Gee, that’s a shame

  • avatar
    Lou_BC

    @Lie2me –
    “Parler sues Amazon”

    “Parler is now offline, and CEO John Matze said on the platform before it went down that it was unclear when the service would return, as additional vendors had dropped support for the platform and “most people with enough servers to host us have shut their doors to us.”” Forbes

    Those left wing commie billionaires are out to get us….

  • avatar
    Old_WRX

    Some people just can’t see the forest for the trees…

    12 to go to 300

    • 0 avatar
      ToolGuy

      You forgot to double post.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      My brother is a Forester for a huge lumber company. He had to deal with some tree huggers. They made some dumb comments and his reply to them, “Does a bear sh!t in the woods?….Nope!They sh!t in the cutblock just like all of the other animals.”
      He got lectured from senior administration and was banned from dealing with the public. He thought that it was worth getting chewed out.

  • avatar
    Old_WRX

    “https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGkZz6mOHuQ”

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      Even unpoisoned dude knows value of freedom. Russians are shocked. Ukrainians are angry

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      More FBI False flags?

      A situational information report approved for release the day before the U.S. Capitol riot painted a dire portrait of dangerous plans, including individuals sharing a map of the complex’s tunnels, and possible rally points for would-be conspirators to meet in Kentucky, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts and South Carolina and head in groups to Washington.

      “As of 5 January 2021, FBI Norfolk received information indicating calls for violence in response to ‘unlawful lockdowns’ to begin on 6 January 2021 in Washington, D.C.,” the document says. “An online thread discussed specific calls for violence to include stating ‘Be ready to fight. Congress needs to hear glass breaking, doors being kicked in, and blood from their BLM and Pantifa slave soldiers being spilled. Get violent. Stop calling this a march, or rally, or a protest. Go there ready for war. We get our President or we die. NOTHING else will achieve this goal.”

      • 0 avatar
        mcs

        Parler was just hacked bigtime. About 80tb of data. All the posts and locational data. Probably every post. With the locational data the posters should be identifiable. The hacker community and the FBI are all over it. I’ve got a direct line to the hackers, so this is firsthand information.

        “from their BLM and Pantifa slave soldiers” – It’s trumpists. BLM wasn’t there gopnitsa.

        • 0 avatar
          Lie2me

          It seems that anyone who was anywhere near the Capitol who had a phone and a Parler app can expect a visit from the FBI. Of course, anyone who was dumb enough to give a site like Parler their personal info might be better off in a facility of some sort

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        slavuta,

        “As of 5 January 2021…”

        They need some new writers. These things always sound like some low budget action movie.

        FBI is warning of trouble in 50 state capitals and DC. What then? Martial law on inauguration day?

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          “Martial law on inauguration day?”

          That would be loser Rump’s wet dream come true.

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            Lou_BC,

            “That would be loser Rump’s wet dream come true.”

            Not Trump. Biden.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @Old_WRX – Convict Flynn had suggested that loser Rump impose martial law and order military to redo elections in states he lost.

            President Elect Biden won’t have the authority until after he’s sworn in January 20.

            Rump got his cheeto azz impeached a second time today. This time around Republicans are more likely to support. Mr.Chao is in favor of it because it will ban Rump from ever running for office.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            @Lou:

            Gosh, don’t you know Flynn was just joking? It was…locker room talk.

            Get with it, man!

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Old_WRX,

          yesterday I was listening to townhall call with my rep in congress. Vicious attacks on Trump and GOP. Then something like, “I was military blah blah… I gave oath…”

          And I was thinking to dial *3 to ask a question and say something like, “you know what, I also served and gave oath… on the other side… I wanted to come to America. But if I knew what turn it will take, I would open the case and push the red button”

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            … and that’s why Trump has to go, guys like you and him have no business being anywhere near the “red button”

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            slavuta,

            “But if I knew what turn it will take”

            A very bitter disappointment for you. I don’t know what else to say except I’m sorry, as an american, that this is the way things have turned out for you and many others who came here hoping to escape oppression.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Oh, poor, poor Trump. All he did was f**k up, and people are attacking him over it? How dare they? It’s not like anyone got killed, right? Oh, wait…

            Forget I said that. Here, here, now…put your head right there on daddy’s shoulder. It’s gonna be OK. Want me to sing a lullaby to you?

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      FreedMike,

      “Here, here, now…put your head right there on daddy’s shoulder. It’s gonna be OK. Want me to sing a lullaby to you?”

      No.

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      FreedMike,

      “You know what my point is.”

      No, I don’t know what your point is. And, I don’t know what you found so irritating about my original comment. I certainly am not crying bitter salt tears because Trump is not getting a second term. As far as I am concerned it’s a done deal — Biden will be our next president. When Trump was elected in 2016 I was appalled. But, H. Clinton wasn’t much of a choice either. The only person even close to the presidential race this time around that I would have been happy to see elected was Tulsi Gabbard — but, fat chance of that.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        Old_WRX,

        watch, soon sh#t will hit the fan. FBI knew something is coming but conspired to let it happen.
        Also look at the crowd in any Trump rally. They don’t dress like the people who attacked the Capitol. One Russian woman who went there said there were instigators in the crowd and some people bought what they were selling. These sold to them, how cool it was inside the Capitol, “lets go look at it”.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @slavuta – looks like you are trying to peddle conspiracies here now that Parler is shut down. Does your troll farm work in shifts? Which shift is the “barely speak English” Slavuta working?

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Lou_BC,

            nope. FBI said today – BLM member they captured was organizing chaos there and will be charged correspondingly.

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          slavuta,

          Yep, and it seems like Trump was aware of the danger. “Just go home.” And, no violence. Looks like it was a trap. Cui bono is obvious. It’s definitely going to start full force very soon.

          Corporations are lining up to fire anyone suspected of being Trumpist. What’s next, show trials?

          The whole thing is really kooky. In the 1950’s people were blacklisted for being communist. Now, people are blacklisted for not being communist. I’ve even seen where some of our new great leaders and teachers say Trump cultists need to be reeducated. The same old pattern…

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @Old_WRX-one has a tendency to “lock in” one’s viewpoint. That occurs for many reasons. Unfortunately tRump has flooded the right-wing ecosystem with lies over the past 4 years. Those lies have been repeated and amplified by amoral opportunistic politicians and right-wing media putting profits before truth. Social media algorithms expose people to only one message.

            Calling it reprogramming is an incorrect term but is used because helps reinforce one’s group belief.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Old_WRX
            I think loU is antifA agitator

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @slavuto – LOL. Does working in a troll farm pay well?

            The best way to keep oneself from getting trapped by lies is to expose oneself to as many viewpoints as possible.

            Agitator?

            Just for the truth.

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      Lou_BC,

      “one has a tendency to “lock in” one’s viewpoint. ”

      Yes. Up until this year I was a life long democrat. But, then I started seeing things that just didn’t add up. It took a great deal of reading from many sources for me to realize that the democratic party had utterly ceased to uphold the values that have traditionally been associated with the democratic party — civil rights; look after the little guy not big business, etc. It saddens me greatly that they have so completely sold out and betrayed the trust of democrats. I’m still not at all what I would call a conservative, but, these days the dems are doing ugly things to curtail freedom of speech and foment bigotry (mislabeled: social justice) while the reps are vehemently backing freedom of speech and opposing bigotry. As far as I am concerned capitalism isn’t a very good system, but the socialism/communism that the left is selling has an abysmal track record, including the horrors of Stalin’s and Mao’s purges — tens if not hundreds of millions of people murdered. Socialism/communism makes great rhetoric but, in practice, creates little other than misery.

      The recent deluge of large corporations persecuting people associated with conservatism makes it painfully obvious that the dems are in bed with big business. Protect the little guy? Hah. Civil rights? Hah.

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @Old_TRX – only in the USA would people think that the current Democrat platform is socialist or communist.

        I do agree that the Democrats have sold out to the rich. That was the domain of the Republicans. Big money/dark money needs to removed from politics.
        We might see populism shift Republicans to becoming a working class party. I doubt it because both sides are addicted to personal power.

        Big corporations are distancing themselves from tRump. Firing an employee for being in a riot isn’t big business persecution. If I were to break the law, I’d end up unemployed in a heart beat.

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          Lou_BC,

          “If I were to break the law”

          I’m not talking about any law breaking. Only about political affiliation.

          Maybe more on this later — right now gotta run.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            My comment about “breaking the law” is in relation to rioting.

            It is good that you look at multiple sources for information. It is critical that we be aware of our own biases and the biases of the writer of the information we read. We must assess the validity and veracity of the information we read. Unbiased or minimally biased sources are what we should rely upon. Finding multiple corroborating sources of information is also key.

            We human beings have a very bad habit of searching for validation of our beliefs which is very different than searching for the truth.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Old_WRX,

            be at TV tonight. Will be fun. See below ↓↓↓

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Lou
          “only in the USA would people think that the current Democrat platform is socialist or communist. ”

          That correct. Everybody else know that Democrat platform is racist nazi fascism and apartheid – all upside down.

          Biden appoints people by skin color chart.

          His new nazi Assistant Attorney General (Civil Rights)Kristen Clarke wrote these:
          “blacks had “superior physical and mental abilities” because of melanin.”
          “black babies sit, stand, crawl, and walk, sooner than whites.”
          “some whites’ brains are not functioning, adding that 60 to 80% of the European brains are calcified.”

          fascism – your dem friends want total uniformity, including uniformity of thought

          apartheid – now BLM is the high class. We, the workers are too troublesome low life scum, worth nothing

          BTW, all the Russia [email protected] was a hoax and watch tonight! So, No Russian trolls. Only dem party trolls.

          But Russia is watching closely. For them this is like deja-vue. 1937. American Stalinism in action. So, back to your “only in the USA would people think”. Right. In Europe people don’t think this. Over there they know that kristallnacht is coming because Reichstag fire already happened. And now, Stalins repressions in actions. Even, the say, this is worse than segregation. At least, during segregation we had spots for whites only, and then for everybody else. In the new system, if you support Trump you have NO place on the vehicle. Congrats! Civil war just entered stage of preparation to the hot phase.

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            slavuta,

            “Civil war just entered stage of preparation to the hot phase.”

            You’re right. I thought it was coming sooner rather than later. But, with the FBI predictions it’s definitely starting now.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @Slavuto – Nice post. It looks like Vlad still has an inside track with what’s going on in the USA. LOL.

            Yawn…

            Troll away….all that effort just to rile up one American.

            You must get paid by the hour.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Lou,

          you ALWAYS yawn when you have no argument. Read psychology. This is a bad sign.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @slavuta – ha ha. On the topic of bad signs… is that what your troll farm script suggests you say?

            “Yawn” was meant to indicate that I am getting bored with your comments. I wasn’t yawning in real time. Sheesh!

            Oh and this just in……

            The NRA filed for bankruptcy

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            slavuta,

            You have to remember that russian/soviet history (and maoist chinese history) are not taught in this country. Without some of that sort of background it’s next to impossible to see the signs. With some of that background it’s pretty much impossible not to see where all this is heading. “Ignorance is bliss.”

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            @Lou

            I saw that and from what I read they claim to be solvent. It sounds like they may be taking advantage of the bankruptcy laws in order to facilitate a corporate move from New York to Texas. Assuming the NRA tells any truth in its statements (jury’s out IMO).

            @Old_WRX

            I’m not even sure US history is being taught in US schools let alone the history of other countries. Part of the problem is the post 1990 generation has no concept of what “America” is supposed to be, nor do they have any concept of a life without certain technologies (esp those coming of age in the mid-00s). Tomorrow we could revert to 1970s living and day to day I wouldn’t be very impacted, but most of that younger generation would go collectively insane (no joke).

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “You have to remember that russian/soviet history (and maoist chinese history) are not taught in this country”

            I take it you are going on the assumption that I’m American?

  • avatar
    Old_WRX

    tankinbeans

    301

  • avatar
    Lou_BC

    @ToolGuy – I’ve done a few online tests like that. They are interesting especially if you find one’s that are truly neutral or are part of a University study. People that tend to seek out bias tests usually are those that already are introspective enough to know where they are on the spectrum. It is rather unfortunate that both the left and right have a following that is completely rigid in outlook.

  • avatar
    Old_WRX

    28cars,

    “but most of that younger generation would go collectively insane (no joke).”

    Yes they would.

    I don’t know what they are teaching as American history these days. And, I’d rather not know.

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