By on October 21, 2020

Politics have corrupted just about everything under the sun over the last few years. Practically everything is political in 2020 and if you have an opinion about that, it had better be the correct one and sanctioned by your preferred party. After all, having an approved take is far more important that an accurate one. But what of the automotive industry? Where do the carmakers fall on the supposedly important spectrum?

Well, we know that the UAW predictably endorsed Joe Biden for president way back in spring. But those heading the companies distributing union members’ paychecks quite literally came to Donald Trump in 2017 to ask that he take it easy on them. Obama-era regulations had made efficiency mandates so strict, that automakers had become convinced they’d be unable to meet them in the years ahead. While Trump’s relationship with the industry often runs hot and cold, he pushed for a fueling rollback that placed federal authorities at odds with California and kicked off a regulatory conflict of epic proportions.

Assuming Biden wins the election, those stringent emissions mandates will undoubtedly come back into play  surrounded on all sides by his climate and environmental justice proposal, which makes a federal investment of $1.7 trillion over the next 10 years. While automotive exclusives are hesitant to share their regulatory fears with the general public, especially as they attempt to put on the greenest face possible for marketing purposes, there are real concerns that the U.S. could embrace policies similar to Europe. That could force a change of course for a few companies and complicate the overall trajectory for the U.S. market.

It looks as though the auto industry might be as politically torn as the rest of America.

“The industry is more divided than I’ve seen it in my lifetime,” U.S. Rep. Debbie Dingell (D-MI), said in a recent interview with Bloomberg. “There’s competitive issues that drive that, but if they’re not together on those issues, they’re going to be in trouble.”

The outlet ran an assessment of what each presidential candidate winning would mean for the industry and what kind of response that might warrant this week. A Trump win wouldn’t change much. Federal regulators would still be at odds with California and the White House would be pushing for U.S. factory jobs and deregulation with “environmental justice” near the bottom of the overall list of concerns. Automakers could also pursue electrification to the heart’s content, though likely without an extension of federal EV tax credits or additional governmental support.

By contrast, Biden would likely back standards the California Air Resources Board is already pushing and continue encouraging the government to subsidize electric vehicles. While that would help create a national fueling standard without rogue states standing in the way (something automakers desperately want), his environmental plan is extremely ambitious and expensive. Biden has also entertained the idea of bringing back programs similar to 2009’s Car Allowance Rebate System (Cash for Clunkers) to encourage electric vehicle adoption. But critics have maintained that the original program was a failure that ultimately ended up creating more environmental waste, attempted to remind everyone that the Obama administration’s set emissions standards it knew were untenable, and have been suggesting the latest Democrat policies would be toxic for the long-term welfare of U.S. automotive industry.

The automotive industry would have to fundamentally change as it loses some sovereignty under a President Biden. But that’s not to suggest things would be hunky-dory under another four years of President Trump. His desire to focus on American jobs and companies has put an industry dependent upon global supply chains in a weird position eliciting an interesting response.

From Bloomberg:

Trump’s trade wars and tariff threats on imported autos and parts  which the Biden campaign has criticized  led to a lobbying shakeup for the auto industry in Washington earlier this year.

That’s when the former Alliance for Automobile Manufacturers, which represented both foreign and domestic-owned carmakers, merged with the Association of Global Automakers, which represented foreign-owned automakers. The reformed group is the Alliance for Automotive Innovation and it now focuses primarily on the push by carmakers to develop self-driving cars and steers clear of trade issues that have dominated the Trump era.

Foreign-owned carmakers which were apart of the Association of Global Automakers banded together to create a new lobbying group known as Autos Drive America. Only the American Automotive Policy Council, which lobbies for domestic carmakers, remains unchanged as Trump goes before voters for a second time.

“As always, as we go through an election period, we’ve got to sure we’re paying attention to what might change and what might stay the same and be a resource,” explained John Bozzella, CEO of the Alliance for Automotive Innovation. “Our role is to be a resource and educate and we want to be a resource to every candidate.”

Lobbying groups understand that the winds of fate are fickle and know it pays to cater to both political parties whenever possible. Most of the overt political division is happening on the corporate level with leadership trying not to make a public fuss.

General Motors, Toyota, and Fiat Chrysler Automobiles have decided to back Trump in the gas war. Automakers with a lot of facilities based in North America also benefit from the administration’s USMCA agreement. But Ford, BMW, Honda, and Volkswagen have all supported California and are presumed to be more agreeable when it comes to the prospect of a new administration adopting stricter emissions standards  likely because they have the most to gain from it.

[Image: Orhan Cam/Shutterstock]

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98 Comments on “Automotive Politics: A Tale of Two Industries?...”


  • avatar
    Pig_Iron

    Politics have corrupted just about everything. . .
    Like TTAC? Why would anyone vote for a man who clearly has dementia, and spent nearly half a century enriching himself and his family with foreign kickbacks funded by American citizens?

    • 0 avatar
      thegamper

      …..and is in bed with the Russians to destroy American democracy and undermine our institutions….

      wait, are we talking about the same person?

      Either way, seems like someone has been drinking the Kool Aid, maybe both of us…to the author’s point.

      • 0 avatar
        Pig_Iron

        You are aware the whole Russian collusion conspiracy theory was #DEBUNKED.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        One in the same.

      • 0 avatar
        Art Vandelay

        Yes, no matter if you are talking about Trump or Biden, you are talking about the same person. Two sides of the same filthy coin. If only there was a third option. Someone well educated, with no sexual harassment/assault allegations and no troubling ties to any of our adversaries.

        But yeah, third parties never win so by all means, vote for one of these corrupt buffoons. That whole “lesser of 2 evils” has sure worked great to this point.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Art,

          you better define “Someone well educated”. Educated by whom? Liberal institutions? Thanks a lot. In America, there are no well-educated people. You know why? Because in 1976 we surrendered education to teachers unions and we don’t produce well-educated people because current professors are like Angela Davis all over the place. They don’t teach kids to be Americans.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            Jo Jorgensen is a PHD and a professor at Clemson. She has no sexual assault allegations and nothing linking her to being compromised by a foreign power of any sort, let alone one hostile to our nation’s interests.

            But you go ahead…pick the least bad rapist/traitor, so long as he is your rapist/traitor it’s all good, right?

            The non rapist/traitor can’t win so unless you are throwing your support to the least bad rapist/traitor you are wasting your vote, right. I mean the other rapist/traitor is way worse than your rapist/traitor…can’t let him win.

          • 0 avatar
            Art Vandelay

            Oh, and as to defining well educated? She can string 2 coherent sentences together. That is frankly enough given the other 2 choices.

          • 0 avatar

            Thankfully in 1976 I was in Moscow attending Moscow State University and studying Marxism.

        • 0 avatar

          Third option is Vladimir Putin. Russian army is ready to occupy Wall street and White House. Both Trump and Biden are Putin’s puppets.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        thegamper,

        are you delusional? what do you think Biden was doing in Ukraine? Making money off Russian gas. So, yea, US was dealing with Russians to get gas to Ukraine so Bidens and Kerry can feed at the feeder. Don’t you know that step son of John Kerry was also there? This is not some fake dossier, you can’t remove names from company board. That would be totally 1984 buddy.

        • 0 avatar
          Art Vandelay

          So you support the guy that chooses to let a dude who was literally caught on camera jerking off in front of a supposed Russian right wing journalist represent him?

          The Biden stuff looks terrible. But the other guy is no better. If you accept either then frankly, you are not just part of the problem, you are the problem.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Thanks to the American electoral process, I don’t have a choice. We have power usurped by 2 parties. And both have done everything possible to restrict third party and independent candidates. Media also has done everything to cater to these 2. Moreover, media now is a part of political party system. This is total USSR. So, in my tough choice between Trump and Biden, I pick Trump because

            1. Biden is a temporary fixture. He will not make one year in the office. And behind him is USSR in remaking. And you gonna tell me about Stalin when you’re already in Big Brother situation with USSR-style media doing the bid for a party.

            2. Trump is a great disraptor. The very reason why everyone is against his is because he decided not to surrender US-A to global powers. Globalists want money to govern US, not the elected officials. So, if they buy enough of these “representatives”, these dudes will bend American legislature to serve global interests. And big tech wants thousands cheap Hindu developers, instead of investing into training American children.

            3. Everything that derives from #1 and #2

          • 0 avatar
            jkross22

            Art, I’ve been evangelizing this idea for years – that the parties are just marketing arms working for the same people happy to write checks to have the scales tipped in their favor.

            Doesn’t matter if the checks say GM, Boeing, P&G or Google or if the money is going to team red or blue. Bought government of, by and for large corporations.

            The ‘the lesser of two evils’ or ‘I’m gonna hold my nose and vote for’ voters are good representations of the typical party loyalist rationalization for staying on the hamster wheel.

            The truth about elections: you have a choice. Your ballots contain alternatives to the Dem/Rep corruption racket. We’re being clobbered with ads that say our vote matters. So make it matter. If you’re an environmentalist, the green party welcomes your support.

            For everyone else, Jo Jorgensen welcomes your support.

        • 0 avatar
          thegamper

          Well, I do tend to get my news from reputable institutions rather than conspiracy theorists on Facebook and Twitter….if that makes me delusional…..I guess. I also believe in science, medicine, trust in physicians, etc.

          The best argument I can make for voting against trump is this: has there ever been another American president who “literally” gets laughed at when he goes to and speaks at international events? I don’t think that even happens to leaders of third world countries. Also, and more importantly, there is nothing more un-American than actively and openly courting white supremacists. That’s not fake news, that straight from the horse’s ass.

          If you are believing all this about how everything that is anti trump is fake news, you should definitely check out the “Flat Earth Society”. You should fit right in. Just close your eyes and plug your ears and keep believing.

          Now, is Biden a great candidate? Not really. But he has the temperment to lead and he is more presidential than trump by an order of magnitude. He is a stop gap measure to calm everyone down and get this country back on a track where things like facts and truth matter and maybe, we can all start respecting each other again.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            thegamper,

            you keep peddling propaganda – watch this and NEVER say Trump in context of white supremacy
            youtube.com/watch?v=RGrHF-su9v8

            Yea, I remember when foreign leaders laughed at Trump. That was time when they also were getting brown noses with him. Their countries were on fire and Trump/US were doing great. Macron was laughing while Paris was burning for months by yellow vests.

            Biden is not a stop gap, he is a tugboat with a hell in tow. And he is a butcher of Ukraine.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            thegamper,

            another point here… my brother happens to be a scientist in molecular medicine working at the heart of the liberal nest “somewhere” in Boston… And he is fully supporting Trump. And judging by the information he sends to me from different internal scientific sources, Trump often is correct. Remember hydroxychloroquine, which was banned from twitter and youtube, well, 72 scientific researches shows that if applied early in the course of the illness, it reduces the symptoms drastically in symptomatic cases and shortens duration by 1/3. Unfortunately many scientists are also activists. Research how freon was discontinued. That was less science and more business.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            thegamper,

            I think you should retract/apologize/admit…

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            @thegamper,

            “I also believe in science”

            Then you better stay away from the “progressive” democrats. They have decided, in their “woke”-ness, that there are something like 40 different genders. And, they believe that gender (or was that sex?) is a “social construct.” They get all upset if someone dares to suggest that sex or gender can be scientifically defined. Apparently science (and math) is white privilege, or something like that. Logic is white people stuff, too. These are tools that whites use to oppress people of color, etc., etc.

    • 0 avatar

      “Why would anyone vote for a man who clearly has dementia”

      To lose their jobs, that’s why.

    • 0 avatar
      Peter Gazis

      Pig_Iron
      Show me the money!
      After 35 years in the Senate; 8 year as VP, Joe Biden and his wife the College Professor have built up a nice little nest worth a few million dollars. Nothing that would indicate corruption.
      Joe Biden has released his Tax Returns. Like every other presidential candidate in the past 80 years has done. With the exception of Donald Trump

      • 0 avatar
        Arthur Dailey

        So much blatant misrepresentation and ‘fudging’ of the facts.

        If hydroxychloroquine was so effective than why was Trump who claimed to be using it months ago infected? And when infected it was not used to treat him. So much for its usefulness.

        Biden is an old school politician. He is certainly no radical leftist. Sure he is past his best before date.

        Trump on the other hand has proven to be incompetent. Hires incompetents. Has accomplished few of his promises, despite having a majority in both Houses for the first 2 years of his term. And civil unrest and division in the USA is the worst it has been in decades, perhaps since the Civil War.

        Plague (COVID), civil unrest, economic stagnation, record levels of debts, officials being jailed at record numbers. It is almost like a ‘higher power’ is punishing the USA over the past few years.

        Why is it that the most powerful nation of the last half of the 20th century cannot find better politicians/elected officials?

        Perhaps due to the anti-intellectualism that sways much of the voting public? Many Americans seem to on principle disagree with those with expertise.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          “If hydroxychloroquine was so effective than why was Trump who claimed to be using it months ago infected?”

          This medicine does not save you from the virus but eases the course of the illness and shortens duration, if used early. Are you ignoring half the info?

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            Rushed to a hospital treated by 11 physicians with a cocktail of drugs but not hydroxychloroquine.

            Proof that hydroxychloroquine is not only ineffective but not trusted by his own physicians.

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            Correct.

            Hydroxychloroquine does not prevent infection by Covid. In people with weak immune systems (those with comorbidities, and the elderly) the immune system does not react initially in the normal way that it does in more robust individuals. This allows the virus to spread throughout the body. Then the immune system creates a cytokine storm which is what actually kills people. Unfortunately the cytokines do not distinguish between the virus and the bodies own tissues. Hdroxychloroquine can help suppress this deadly action by the immune system.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            @Old_WRX –
            If Hydroxychloroquine worked the FDA would not have withdrawn it’s EUA. It also known to cause QT prolongation and associated arrhythmias. Many studies indicated that it killed more people that helped.

            As far as “weak” immune systems, it’s considerably more complex than what you’ve said. There are pro-inflammatory and anti-inflammatory cytokines. Covid-19 causes ARDS (acute respiratory distress syndrome) which in itself can cause a severe systemic inflammatory response.
            One of the safest and cheapest ways to treat a severe pro-inflammatory response is with dexamethasone.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          “Biden is an old school politician. He is certainly no radical leftist”

          In Harris-Biden administration, with Joe Biden as president…

          ooops. They said this

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          “Trump …. Has accomplished few of his promises”

          Yes, he has. And if he wasn’t constantly disturbed buy wasteful investigations, fake impeachment, he could do more.

          Civil unrest? This was under Obama – Charlottesville, Ferguson , no? Ah, because Antifa accepted Obama as their own guy, they were behaving for him

          “It is almost like a ‘higher power’ is punishing the USA over the past few years.”

          what do you think, you will keep teach kids to be anti-American and it will go smooth with rest of us?

          “Why is it that the most powerful nation of the last half of the 20th century cannot find better politicians/elected officials? ”

          Because this is what you grow from childhood

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            Your first comment is patently false.
            Your 2nd is also false.
            Your 3rd makes no sense.
            As to your 4th, well that is a condemnation of the American educational system. Which is indeed largely dysfunctional as it is compromised by racial disharmony, and an anti-intellectual strain that derives from social mores endemic in the Confederate States.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Not proof of anything. Moreover, we don’t really know what really went on. May be not COVID even.
          This is human body, everyone’s response is different.

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            “Not proof of anything.”

            It has to true. ‘Cause it says so on CNN. And, they would never publish false news. “All the conspiracy theories and distortions that are fit to further our political agenda” — that’s there motto.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Art,
          you can call my info “false” all day long. Just shows your ignorance. You keep on bringing you comments like they “the only truth” anyone says here. But just a reminder – you don’t know everything. In fact, not that much. You, for example, don’t know history of the world and the fact that every republic has failed. So, when I say, Franco is coming, you are claiming that I don’t understand democracy… Read the history. It indicates the place America is going to.

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            And you proclaim your belief that the USA requires or would benefit from a right wing dictatorship? Does that not fit into the definition of treason or domestic terror?

            And a great many of your facts, are in fact not facts.

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          “And civil unrest and division in the USA”

          Yes, fomented by the left. In a sense you could say that if Trump wasn’t the president then there wouldn’t be so much “unrest.” Why? Because then the left wouldn’t be having a temper tantrum that their guy isn’t in the Whitehouse.

          The dems candidate, Harris, promised that the “unrest” would continue after the election. She had a smile on her face when she said that — like she thought it was great. If you doubt that, search on youtube for the video.

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            @oldwrx: first my best wishes. But secondly do not many who are considered disabled rely on social programs to assist them in their day to day lives. Programs implemented by Democrats or that Democrats are campaigning on strengthening?

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Art,

          “My belief is that if Biden is elected President (still a big if) that he will revert to ‘old school’ politics.”

          Please. Biden will not last a year. and 2 – there is no “old school” people behind him. Forget old school. It is gone. There will not be any smart and young. May be, reintroduction of military draft can help somewhat, bring back back people familiar with order, courage and pride.

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        “Nothing that would indicate corruption.”

        Except Hunter Biden’s laptop disk showing over-the-top criminal activity on the Bidens part.

        But, it is true that they are both crooks. The only reason to vote for Trump is that, if we get a Harris (c’mon, everyone knows that’s what it’ll be) administration, it will open the gates armageddon. If Trump is elected there will still be hell — the dems have promised that — but, hopefully less of it.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Old_WRX,

          they already said this, you know this – Harris Biden administration with Biden as president. The question is, “DID ANYONE read Biden’s plan?” joebiden.com/housing/ They have destroyed the cities, now they want to destroy suburbia

          • 0 avatar
            Old_WRX

            “now they want to destroy suburbia”

            I’ve known for a long time that they wanted to reduce the standard of living drastically. They want to be like kings of old kicking peasants (that’s us) into the ditch. They hate the fact that the average person in the US lives as well as we do. Elect Harris and we’ll get to see it all come to fruition. If we live that long, that is.

            Me, I’m considered disabled. And, we know what they want to do with anyone who can’t feed their greed. Regimes of the type they will establish have a cure for all these disabled parasites. And, I’m sure I don’t need to tell you what that is.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Do you think, Bill Gates is not a crook?

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          @Arthur Dailey,

          First, thank you for your kind words.

          To tell the truth I don’t really much know who (dems or reps) set up most of the programs available. I get social security disability which is, of course, in no sense charity. It’s something I paid into during twenty years of work before I needed it. The welfare system is another matter — I’m not saying it shouldn’t exist but it could definitely use some REAL reform.

          Don’t get me wrong; I’m no die hard conservative. All my life I’ve been more a dem than a rep. But, now I see things happening with the dem party that I find very disturbing. I don’t like Trump at all, so voting rep would be for me strictly the (hopefully) lesser of two evils. Though I’m afraid @jkross22 may well be right and that the two parties are really the same people putting on a public show of partisan politics to keep us distracted. If that’s so then the plan may be to terrorize the public to the point where if they (god forbid) invoke the insurrection act (if I’ve got that right) and bring in the military to keep the peace the public will welcome it with open arms. One thing I’m sure of is the situation isn’t good.

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            My belief is that if Biden is elected President (still a big if) that he will revert to ‘old school’ politics. Rather than ‘dividing’ he will attempt to find or implement policies that some Republicans can support.

            If anything America needs to find a middle ground. At least until a younger and ‘smarter’ generation of leaders emerges.

            As for social security, etc. Yes they are contributed to and earned. I am against charity and for citizens contributing to and then being eligible for social benefits. And the reduction of bureaucracy.

            What I endorse are universal public medicine. Which in the USA as I understand it is currently available to seniors/retirees, veterans and perhaps those on disability? In every other first world nation, all citizens are receive universal healthcare.

            I am also for doing away with welfare, food stamps, employment insurance and similar government programs which require separate bureaucracies. Replace them with a guaranteed annual income for all citizens. Everyone pays into it when working and receives it whenever their income falls below a certain level.

            No more having to plead with bureaucrats. No more stigmatization.

            Stay healthy my friend.

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      @Lou_BC,

      “If Hydroxychloroquine worked the FDA would not have withdrawn it’s EUA.”

      Hydroxychloroquine has one fatal flaw: it’s cheap. That means big pharma wouldn’t be raking in dough from it’s use. And, believe me, they intend to gouge as much as they can from the plandemic. This is the same reason that their research has changed its emphasis from searching for cures to creating new (expensive) maintenance drugs. A cured patient is a lost customer. But, what about the governments watchdog of big pharma, the FDA? They know which side their bread is buttered on…

  • avatar
    -Nate

    Electric cars ~ PFFT .

    Make them so people will want to buy them and it’ll all roll down hill from there .

    -Nate

  • avatar
    DenverMike

    Environment my A$$. They can’t directly extort billions from automakers so they set unattainable rules then sit back and wait for the tidal wave of money to roll in.

    Automakers aren’t charities, they can only build vehicles to meet consumer demands (and will continue to do so). If it’s anything different, they’re not compelled to buy. Corrupt politicians are very aware of this as they lick their chops.

    I’m in favor of big cities banning all ICE vehicles though. Why punish those that aren’t there, never go there?

  • avatar
    slavuta

    “Politics have corrupted just about everything under the sun over the last few years.”

    Seems you need to re-read the Bible buddy. May be then you will understand that politics corrupted not in the last few years but since ancient times. Go back to basics, read the Bible. This is all there

    • 0 avatar
      Matt Posky

      I cannot disagree with you. I should have said the last few years have felt particularly bad, rather than making it sound like this was some novel issue we’ve never had to confront before.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        Remember what Mark Twain said? – “Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.” Dig the history of American politics. It has been dirty, all the time. We did not have internet and many people did not read newspapers much. This is why it seems it was nicer. It wasn’t

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      Where there are money, power, and humans there will be corruption. In some sense I think the Latin American way is a bit more honest — everyone knows the government is corrupt and they don’t expect any different. In this country politicians keep trying to tell us that they are just honest public servants.

  • avatar
    slavuta

    “Assuming Biden wins the election…” GOD forbid. Then I hope we can find American Franco and end this left schizophrenia.

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      Why stop there. Why not our own Stalin? That’s a leader you really look up to, right?

      Jesus man, do you even read the crap you post? Yes, let’s get a dictator because I don’t like the person the electorate chose.

      Go back to Mother Russia with your BS. I’m sure with your views you’ll be safe from polonium poisoning.

      If Biden does win, maybe Republicans should take a.long, hard look in the mirror and figure out how to convince more people to vote for them. Clearly just trolling on Twitter is not a solid approach. But frankly, I’ll take it over marching them to a freaking Gulag.

      Please, go home. This great nation doesn’t need you.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        No no no. Not electorate. You first brainwash your electorate, then suppress opposing opinion. See – I think, Franco is required. You tell be “go back” to a country I never lived in. Let me tell you a little secret. This country is already in dictatorship. It is not human dictator but dictator of thought. Basically, thought policing is a dictatorship. And you just showed another example of it.

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          “This country is already in dictatorship. It is not human dictator but dictator of thought.”

          That is true, true, true. The stuff is happening right under their noses and they don’t see it. The level of indoctrination in this country is the most extreme that has ever existed on earth. Terrifying.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Old_WRX

            what makes it worse… when I was in USSR, in different organizations, we had “political hour”, “political information”; we openly fought against capitalism and our media was supposed to be a megaphone for the cause. And any devices that did not go with a party line were saboteurs, agents of the capitalism, enemies even, traitors. And that was the norm.
            In America however, we are [theoretically] land of free, we can express opinions, in Gog we trust, home of the brave. But in reality, we’re right on the USSR boulevard.

      • 0 avatar
        Daniel J

        Art,

        I don’t think Republicans have a problem with getting voted in. By all accounts the Left have moved way left, and the Republicans have chilled on the religious rhetoric to allow more traditional “liberals” who are pro 1A and 2A within the party. Lets not conflate Trump with Republicans.

        If Biden wins this speaks against trump, not the Republicans.

        I mean, the Democrats have gotten so far left that:

        Peace isn’t good enough, back just 10 years ago when the democrats were anti – war.

        Lower unemployment isn’t good enough

        More jobs here isn’t good enough , like the blue dog democrats were wanting 10 years ago.

        And higher tax revenue isn’t good enough.

        Everybody needs to let this sink in : Last year we had 3.5T in total federal revenue with guess what…..some of the lowest tax rates.

        Raising taxes on the rich or middle class != more revenue to spend on social programs.

        As much as I can’t stand Trump and his personal behavior, I can’t stand Biden or the democrat party either. I was pretty close to voting for Jo but then she had to start talking about BLM. I also looked more into her stances and I wasn’t as much of a fan as I’d thought I’d be, since I vote for Gary Johnson in 2016.

        At the present moment I won’t vote for president at all, but for all other positions on the ballot.

        Its not going to matter much here in Alabama, IMHE.

    • 0 avatar
      Dan

      And then one day, for no reason at all, people voted Hitler into power.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        “Following the Reichstag fire, the Nazis began to suspend civil liberties and eliminate political opposition. ”

        Didn’t one dude say on CNN another day, “Lets silence Trump temporarily, until after the election”?

        • 0 avatar
          Luke42

          @slavuta:
          “Didn’t one dude say on CNN another day, “Lets silence Trump temporarily, until after the election”?”

          Trump deserves his 1st Amendment rights, just like any other American.

          Trump’s fans are all missing one huge thing.

          The way the “liberal media” makes Trump look bad is by just letting him have his say. This makes Trump look like a fool.

          The Democrats only benefit from silencing trump in the most tactical way during the debate. In any other context, letting Trump say his piece generally makes Biden look better.

          That “one dude on CNN” was probably a Republican, because silencing Trump is their only hope for reducing the amount of Trump-anger in the USA.

          If they let Trump speak unfiltered, he’s guaranteed say something intended to enrage liberals — and it works. But that’s a strategic mistake, because most liberals I know have acted on their anger by donate money to liberal PACs and voting. “Trump Derangement Syndrome” motivates people to vote — and the easiest way to trigger “Trump Derangement Syndrome” is to just let Trump talk.

          I’ve certainly donated money and voted early because Trump and my local House member both succeeded in their deliberate and explicit efforts to make me mad. The more Trump speaks, the more liberals vote.

          Trump deserves his 1st Amendment rights, just like any other American. Given what Trump has to say, letting him speak in public is ultimately self-defeating. But he has every right to say it!

      • 0 avatar

        “for no reason at all, people voted Hitler into power.”

        There was a reason. Germans are not idiots. You will learn soon what was the reason why people voted for National Socialists. They did not vote for Hitler per se. They voted against communists and bankrupt republic. They wanted decent life. Nazi stormtroopers had unleashed a widespread campaign of violence – does it remind you something? Like Antifa?

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          Freikorps and later the SA were no angels but they mostly fought against an attempted Communist insurrection.

          Speaking of which, has anyone ever referenced the Spartacist Uprising, ever, in US schooling or state media? If not, ask yourself why?

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartacist_uprising

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            Demonstrating the great difference between social democrats and communists. Something that a great many Americans, including a large number of Trump supporters are unable to grasp/understand.

            As for which was the greater evil, let’s turn to Churchill regarding his comments on forging an alliance with the USSR, a nation he tried to ‘strangle at birth’ by sending British and Canadian troops to support the Whites.

            “If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.”

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          ” They voted against communists and bankrupt republic.”,

          They also voted against the oppressive measures that were taken against Germany after WW1.

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      slavuta,

      “But in reality, we’re right on the USSR boulevard.”

      But, correct me if I’m wrong, in the USSR it was the government putting out the propaganda which a lot of the people knew was nonsense (best not to say it out load in the wrong company…). I’ve heard it said that in the USSR when people read Pravda at least they knew what they were reading wasn’t true. In the US people watch the main stream media and they BELIEVE it is true. The government doesn’t have to label people as traitors and saboteurs — the people do it on twitter and other such “social” media. And, here they are following the “wisdom” of Stalin. He said that the worst saboteurs are the ones who never sabotage. In other words, you don’t need to commit the crime to be guilty of it. Sounds a lot like the “woke” mentality.

      I saw a hilarious bumper sticker the other day: “I hope the russians trick me into voting for trump again.”

      • 0 avatar

        Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

        I personally don’t watch TV anymore because they lied so many times that I do not trust anymore.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        Old_WRX

        you don’t understand how similar USA [today] and USSR feel to me. There are few technicalities that are different but the mainstream…

        Ok. Media. Remember, the form of gov in USSR was Comm. Party. They have created bunch of ministries and some were responsible for propaganda. All the newspaper editors were supposed to be members of the party and answered directly to people from these bureaus but also to local communist management, like secretary of Party of the City. All publications, books, articles, movies, were strictly scanned for anything that could “throw a shadow on pristine soviet regime and life”.

        But, after all, many of the people who were in position to let material go or not go were believing the system. But many were simply afraid being fired or worse. For example, one poet wrote a poem about death of thousands of jews at Babiy Yar. His buddies, other poets called for a summit and criticized him because “there were not jews there, but soviet people”.

        Soviets wouldn’t report on horrible incidents. For example 100 people killed at stampede at the stadium, etc. There was no news reported. And today, CNN does not report anything they think will benefit Trump.

        So the technicality is, CNN, Facebook, etc, enthusiastically became megaphone of a democratic party. Instead of defending right of free speech and seek the truth, they are doing everything possible for democrats including using same strategies that we saw in USSR. Reporter who writes opinion they don’t like – fired. Info they don’t like – jammed. Blatant lies – sure. Communist ideas – welcome. If I tel somebody that BLM in reality is terrorist organization, I might get reported.

        Most incredible that the people themselves ready to give up the great freedoms US gave them. They think, once opposition will be gone , the life will be great. In reality there will be next take away. We’ve seen this.

        • 0 avatar
          Old_WRX

          slavuta,

          “Most incredible that the people themselves ready to give up the great freedoms US gave them.”

          It is really sad seeing the people give up one freedom after another is if it was a matter of small importance. The first time I really noticed it was “Desert Storm” — the lack of any dissenting voices was really creepy. During the Vietnam war there was so much open opposition to the war. But, “Desert Storm” there was nothing but silence. Then 9/11/2001… just give up more freedom as if it was of no great importance. So easy to let slip away and so hard to gain back… It used to feel safe to talk in this country; now it feels like the smart thing is to keep you mouth shut.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Old_WRX,

            correct. I clearly remember CNN preparing population for Afghanistan invasion. One show after another – Taliban is bad. Ok, Taliban is bad. 20 years later, we clearly lost and can’t admit it. Did CNN say something lately? We have active war still. I remember in USSR, we had every news episode covering few minutes of our forces in Afghanistan. Even on the slow days/weeks. Obviously, America does not have independent media, just like USSR had. Hence the similarities.

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      slavuta,

      “you don’t understand how similar USA [today] and USSR feel to me.”

      I know I don’t have the depth of knowledge about the USSR that you do. But, I have read quite a bit about Soviet history — both fiction (Solzhenitsyn: Cancer Ward, The First Circle, The Love Girl and the Innocent; Dostoevsky: The Possessed) and history books. So, I have enough knowledge (I think) to have some idea of the similarity. Oh, yes, I’ve also read a significant amount about Maoist China. I see far, far too much here that resembles the USSR and China. Unfortunately, unless somehow it is stopped (which seems unlikely) life in the US will become a living hell.

  • avatar
    cartunez

    I absolutely love the political comments on this site.

  • avatar
    don1967

    Matt Taiibi’s “Hate Inc” (free on Youtube) is essential viewing for anyone struggling to understand why everyone else appears crazy these days.

    In a nutshell, it’s not us. It’s the industrial news complex creating different “factual realities” for different target audiences. We can’t agree on anything because we are literally not experiencing the same reality.

  • avatar
    Arthur Dailey

    All technologies are eventually replaced or vastly revised/improved.

    ICE technology achieved dominance because petroleum was relatively cheap, relatively easy to transport, relatively safe and relatively more reliable when compared to its competition.

    Electric is now superior in regards to performance, and maintenance/reliability. But still lacking in other areas.

    America used to embrace technological change. Now Americans often led by those lobbying for ‘old school’ technology seem to view technological change with trepidation.

    The easiest way to minimize the threat of ‘foreign’ terrorism is to remove the easy petro dollars that helps to fund them and their ‘religious schools’. A move away from petroleum would actually improve ‘American security’.

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      I am not against technology and I am not against the existence of emission regulations.
      However I am fully against ICE bans and I don’t believe it is a moral failing to approach widespread technological change with some degree of caution.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      “America used to embrace technological change. Now Americans often led by those lobbying for ‘old school’ technology seem to view technological change with trepidation.”

      This is true because the replacement technology is far too expensive and difficult to implement, and it will remain so for many years if not for all time. I see this as a feature, not a bug, for the real powers behind the throne. Since 2001, basic Western concepts of freedom and capitalism have been replaced with feudal concepts of an aristocracy, 1% royals, 9% upper class, 90% serf. They see transportation no different, they do not wish you to have cheap and effective private transportation. Their goal is Elysium and clearly has been for some time.

      On another note, one idea as to the plandemic is demand destruction and repurposing of society because of Peak Oil. I have and will argue this was a major topic, if not the topic, of VP Cheney’s March 2001 energy conference in which it was later proven an invasion of Iraq was discussed. Cheney’s guests brought data/evidence of a peak and their solution was to secure the worlds largest known supply outside of KSA – Iraq – because if the peak were to come other nations would quickly fight over what remained. I believe this was the impetus of the Iraq invasion and in 2001 they literally did not realize fracking would become the boom it was. This explains the eventual withdrawal, and renders the whole episode something akin to Pyrrhus’ costly victories. Fracking bought more time and in 2015 the US was the major world exporter for the first time I think since the early 1970s. But fracking doesn’t last forever, so here we are and likely will remain in a world using less oil than it did in 2019. I’ve seen the fake news put out different articles as to how wonderful this is and how all of this other half baked chicanery is going to replace oil, but I see it as propaganda for the masses. They want EV because there will come a point where oil won’t be as available or affordable as it is now, and frankly they don’t care if the masses have access to it or not.

      “The easiest way to minimize the threat of ‘foreign’ terrorism is to remove the easy petro dollars that helps to fund them and their ‘religious schools’. A move away from petroleum would actually improve ‘American security’.”

      Paraphrasing George Carlin, without the Petrodollar the real owners of the US lose significant power on the global stage. Not to mention hyperinflation as all or most of the Petrodollars all come home at once for “recycling”. Something like 70% of all physical US $100 bills are offshore and I’d venture to guess a similar percentage of M2 is also offshore (18.6 trillion that they admit too, real number likely higher). Ten percent of the M2 at once floods back in, that’s $1.8 trillion into the country say over a week, and all of that money would be coming back to be exchanged for real goods and real assets inside the US. Let that sink in.

      The simple truth is until a replacement system is implemented which allows the real owners to still maintain control and shift their wealth elsewhere, it will remain. The US will likely experience an event similar to the ostensible collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. Golitsyn accurately predicted a Soviet collapse in 1980, and he claimed it had been planned since sometime in the late 1950s as part of a two prong long term deceptive strategic approach. I will speculate, both Cold War Blocs behind the scenes agreed to an implosion because some type of global governance is not possible with opposing superpowers. Couple this concept with the events of the past six to eight years and ask yourself, does it line up? The US is being destroyed from within and what is the gov’t doing about it… or perhaps they are aligned with those doing it?

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        US president has (for some “unknown reason”) an airplane that uses old tech and can’t be affected by external forces. Old tech works

      • 0 avatar
        Arthur Dailey

        Your conspiracy theory actually aligns with Karl Marx’s theories and predictions.

        A corporate takeover. Profiting the 1%.

        The refusal of the majority of the population in the USA to accept the truth of a ‘class struggle’ and instead having their attention diverted by a contrived ‘racial divide’ is the major internal problem in the USA.

        If working class members of every race were to realize that they are being ‘played’ and have much more in common with each other than they do with members of their respective races who are in the ‘ruling 1%’ then you would witness constructive changes in the USA.

        And your date of 2001 is incorrect. The degradation coincided with the acceptance of Friedman’s ‘trickle down theory of economics’. Something that had largely been debunked back in the early 20th century.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Arthur,

          you have not read Karl Marx

          • 0 avatar

            I cannot blame him. I could not read Marx too even though it was, along with Lenin, a required read in school and University.

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            Not only have I read Marx, but I have taught about his theories in post-secondary institutions.

            No I do not endorse his solutions. But he was the first to correctly identify some underlying societal problems and some of his economic predictions have been uncannily accurate.

            Politically I am a Keynesian.

            Whereas your comments regarding the benefits of a right wing dictatorship are becoming increasingly ‘out there’.

      • 0 avatar
        Old_WRX

        “Paraphrasing George Carlin”

        One of the greatest comics of all time. His delivery and timing were second to none. We could really use him now to poke (deserved) fun at the 2020 madness.

  • avatar
    ajla

  • avatar
    Arthur Dailey

    Unfortunately I believe that Biden lost this round.

    He allowed Trump to force him to defend himself rather than forcing Trump to defend himself. Trump had 4 years in power as president to defend whereas Biden had 8 years in the ‘coat holding’ role of VP to defend.

    Biden made some statements/promises like that regarding the petroleum industry that will hurt his campaign.

    Whereas Trump made no concrete promises that he can be held to.

    Still cannot believe that these are the 2 best candidates that the USA can come up with .

    • 0 avatar
      ToolGuy

      “Still cannot believe that these are the 2 best candidates that the USA can come up with.”

      My ballot listed *nine* possible choices for President/Vice President, as opposed to the two choices presented in the debates.

      The Commission on Presidential Debates was formed by the Democratic and Republican parties and has no interest in including candidates with any other party affiliation*:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_on_Presidential_Debates

      [*Tying Jill Stein to a chair for eight hours does not appeal to me, but hey, some people seem to be into that.]

      • Yes, I voted for President/Vice President.
      • No, I did not vote for Trump/Pence.
      • No, I did not vote for Biden/Harris.
      (These statements taken together would apparently form an inscrutable riddle for many Americans.)

      True fact: There are more than two choices.

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        I believe that somewhere after Ronald Reagan, nobody cared about America anymore. Hence Trump had to step in. The problem is, we’re so polarized that neither party can really put up a no-nonsense centrist. Trump actually 1 such man and only there because RNC was afraid to go against will of the people, which later they used as their great achievement – see, while DNC jammed Bernie in favor of Hillary, we put forward a people-chosen candidate. And they were right on that instance.

    • 0 avatar
      Old_WRX

      “Still cannot believe that these are the 2 best candidates that the USA can come up with.”

      It is truly mind boggling that these are our two mainstream party candidates. But, I will give Trump this: he has stopped wearing a baseball cap and he seems to have learned to tuck his shirt in. So there’s cause for some hope.

  • avatar
    David Cardillo

    …hmmmm…Who owns Bloomgerg…? Following statement’s older than dirt-“Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.” ~ Marcus Aurelius

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