By on October 30, 2019

On Tuesday, we published a piece examining the possibility of Fiat Chrysler Automobiles merging with France’s Groupe PSA. Considering the how often FCA is in merger discussions, we treated it as little more than a well-founded rumor worth monitoring. But additional reports have come through suggesting that the deal has already been approved.

According to The Wall Street Journal, sources with first-hand knowledge have confirmed the companies are already moving forward on the union — effectively creating the world’s fourth largest automaker by volume. 

While both companies have confirmed that they’ve been in talks, neither was willing to verify that a merger is afoot. But they got pretty close. “Following recent reports on a possible business combination between Groupe PSA and FCA Group, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles N.V. … confirms there are ongoing discussions aimed at creating one of the world‘s leading mobility Groups. FCA has nothing further to add at this time,” explained FCA.

PSA’s response was eerily similar, as if they had already begun coordinating on their messaging.

WSJ said PSA’s supervisory board was meeting on Wednesday to discuss the potential deal, apparently with everyone walking out giving the thumbs up — figuratively speaking, of course. We don’t even know if they use the thumbs up in France. It might be all mouth pops and snaps to show approval over there.

Assuming FCA’s leadership did the same, the new business entity is estimated to have a market value of more than $48.4 billion. Though we’d imagine the Italian-American company would be alternating between the okay hand symbol and that finger-pinching move chefs do.

Updates on the deal will come as soon as all parties have confirmed the merger is a go. Until then, we’re going to ponder whether or not PSA is the right cart for Fiat Chrysler to hitch itself to.

 

[Image:Daniel J. Macy/Shutterstock]

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118 Comments on “Report: Fiat Chrysler Agrees to Merge With Groupe PSA...”


  • avatar
    cicero1

    So they can take a Cactus stick the Ram grill on it, replace the side bumps with spikes and call the the Le Ram-Napoleon.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    Maybe they’ll spin off Fiat and call themselves “ASPCA”, while starting an “adopt a Hellcat” program.

  • avatar
    darex

    Franco-American Spaghettios Inc?

  • avatar
    jkross22

    I have no idea how strong PSA is in Europe, but the only bits of Chrysler state side worth anything are Ram trucks and Jeep. The rest is kind of throwaway.

    Maybe this is a long term play to get access to US dealers. There doesn’t seem to be much value in anything else.

  • avatar
    IBx1

    Does this mean I can have a Cactus?

  • avatar
    conundrum

    Like Ford, FCA and PSA are pikers in the Chinese market with overall sales falling even faster than sedan sales in the West, probably because they both offer smaller cars there. They’re barely a flea tickle these days. Both are behind in the EV game, if that matters and it may not. At least PSA doesn’t make as many quality clunkers as FCA and picked Opel up out of the extreme loss hole they were in when owned by GM in about a year and and a half.

    The question is, who would run the merged company? And how have the Agnelli family ensured that their billions are safe from French depradation? At least they are sure with RAM and Jeep in the USA selling well that their Italian empire is folding firm and the chateaus are safe. Only Americans and Canadians think of FCA being American and that’s been good for sales and income, but FCA is foreign no matter how you slice the cheese.

    The combined company? Meh.

    • 0 avatar
      thornmark

      >>And how have the Agnelli family ensured that their billions are safe from French depredation?<<

      the last merger attempt was seen by some as mainly a way that family could cash out of FIAT at the expense of others

      details will reveal whether this one is seen similarly

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      “Only Americans and Canadians think of FCA being American”

      This Canadian doesn’t!

      They haven’t been American since Daimler/Benz.

  • avatar
    Arthur Dailey

    Peugeot, Citroen, DS, Opel, Vauxhall, Fiat, Alfa, Maserati, Lancia, Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Ram. Did I miss any?

    Well we can probably kiss DS, Opel, Vauxhall, and Lancia goodbye.
    Possibly also Citroen, Chrysler and Alfa?

    Certain to retain Jeep and Ram. Probably also Fiat, Peugeot, Maserati and Dodge.

    Leaves a truck, an off-road, a luxury, a muscle car, and 2 European mainstream brands.

    • 0 avatar
      Tstag

      I don’t really see FCA scrapping much except Lancia and DS. PSA will want to get Alfa on its feet given they failed to buy JLR.

    • 0 avatar
      RHD

      Hyundai will easily take up the market share when these two merge and then downsize.

      PSA is partly owned by the Chinese. This will make Jeep and Chrysler partly owned by the Communists.

      If we get some interesting European cars to our continent, something good will have come out of this. Maybe they can label them Plymouths.

  • avatar
    thornmark

    RAM and JEEP are hugely profitable. FIAT, profitless itself and moribund has been using those profits to keep itself alive.

    I suspect PSA wants to become another vampire sucking the lifeblood of RAM and JEEP.

    • 0 avatar

      Alternate perspective: Jeep ruins whatever company owns it.

      • 0 avatar
        thornmark

        I’ve said that myself, so maybe JEEP will ultimately be left standing as the sole survivor

        certainly nothing PSA produces is compelling and based on history a US relaunch should prove to be as successful as FIAT’s has been

        • 0 avatar
          CKNSLS Sierra SLT

          thornmark-
          I have traveled outside the U.S.-unlike the vast majority of “keyboard warriors” on this site. PSA has some compelling CUV’s that would be a nice fit. Not everyone wants to rive a “Jeep Renegade” that basically looks like a poor mans hope of wanting something better.

          • 0 avatar
            TMA1

            I’m in China right now, and the Peugeots I see are no more inspiring than the dozens of Chinese brands you’ve never heard of. Probably less so, if you throw better known ones like Lynk & Co. Into the mix.

          • 0 avatar
            ezs

            I live in Brazil and here we have a statement:

            Who buys a Frech car is a patriot or an idiot!

            PSA cars loose their value much faster than others, you buy one you married it! In Brazil we buy cars, not lease.

            Renault are better than PSA, much far away from GM, Honda and Toyota in terms of used cars sales price.

            FCA here is only about Renegade and Compass, small cats are far from the top.

      • 0 avatar
        ToolGuy

        Corey – If you have one Jeep in your fleet, you will never have to wonder if your scan tool is working correctly.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @ToolGuy – I know Jeep guys that just accept the poor quality. “It’s a Jeep thing”. I sometimes wonder if that is the automotive equivalent of sadomasochism.

          • 0 avatar
            ToolGuy

            Lou_BC,

            Interestingly, it drives deeper personal involvement and a strange sense of satisfaction. Endearment even. (Eye-opening to me. I feel like I understand Mopar guys better than ever before.)

          • 0 avatar

            Yeah it’s more a pay to play thing with Jeep. The wrangler in unique and the GC invokes the right things for the upper middle class. So to get what you want you put up with it just like Saab, Volvo and BMW buyers. On the plus side the pain is much lower then Land Rover owners.
            That said most of the Penta star GC owners I know haven’t had many issues. Some of the Hemi high trim guys have seen problems with the engine and interior stuff now that their over 100k miles. Honestly Mopar and GM being slow to acknowledge lifter issues 5-7 years ago kind of pisses me off a bit.

        • 0 avatar

          I would take exception to that except there is a cheap scan tool always sitting at the ready in my first gen Durango. So far other then resetting codes the only actual repairs after code came up was O2 sensors, a transmission sensor and a Transmission cooler line. Which over 10 years and 100k (195k total) miles of ownership I can’t really complain.

  • avatar
    WhatsMyNextCar

    This should put Chrysler out of its misery. Or, it will make Chrysler a sales network for rebadged Citroen or Peugeot models.

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      ^^^ This

      I would say it isn’t the only brand in the end-to-end portfolio at risk.

    • 0 avatar
      WildcatMatt

      I don’t know why this angle isn’t getting more play.

      Rather than building a new dealer network from scratch, it can just tweak existing PSA models, drop in a Pentastar, and slap Dodge or Chrysler badges on them. If things go well, in a few years they could try selecting ONE brand (Citroen would be my guess) to bring in as a botique regional offering (which is pretty much where Fiat is headed).

      This doesn’t require a full-blown merger, either.

    • 0 avatar
      schmitt trigger

      Many seasons ago, SNL had a skit, called “Lowered Expectations” or something similar.
      It featured matches between totally unappealing people.

      This automotive match, for some reason, reminds me of this sketch.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    Repost:

    PSA gets an instant dealer network and further reaps profit centers like LX, JK/JL, WK2, and whatever the truck ones are called. FCA gets… *other than the Agnellis getting out of Fiat at a gain*, I’m stumped here. FCA products for the most part aren’t gonna sell in Europe except for the Fiat derived ones and well Fiat is selling those already. The various Italian semi-luxury/sporty marques I guess are a benefit but then again when you’ve got zee German Opel do you need another luxury marque? From the standpoint of the -Chrysler- part of FCA there’s little there for them.

    Prediction(s): The new board will continue to run the profit center platforms unchanged while the European operations are consolidated. R&D along with product portfolios will split into RAM/Jeep/Misc in the US and everything else will come from Europe. Once Europe is consolidated so will marques with Alfa, Fiat, Opel, Peugeot, and possibly Maserati and Citroën making it although those might become badge jobs for specific markets. Chrysler as a marque is gone, Dodge will probably continue in the US only as a prole brand, Jeep and Ram are obviously safe and both will probably be expanded. Fiat as a brand will withdraw from the US and may be replaced by Peugeot but the more I think about it that’s just like what they did when they brought Fiat here (not as if VW has ever taken off, why would Peugeot?). Smart money just uses Dodge for mainline and brings Opel and/or Citroën. Whatever EV tech PSA has will come over as an Opel/Citroën first and might proliferate into the surviving Italian lux/sport marques. Eventually it will reach the Chrysler marques but I suspect that they will be left alone for at least the next three years. If it ain’t broke…

    • 0 avatar
      volks92

      Europe right now is a high risk for FCA. They have labour and capacity issues and their cars are not selling, so they are letting product lines age and brands slowly die. PSA can help them catch up with technology and lower R&D costs in a market they are not so eager to invest in.

    • 0 avatar

      So more detail out now looks like FCA is going in for, Cash (big dividend to share holders)EV tech (I Gather PSA has spent a decent amount of R and D of EV), and what Sergio always said which is increased purchasing power, condensed supply chain, and additional capacity with some flexibility. Now given the history of most mergers in the last 50 years the likley hood of this working out seem slim long term.

      I agree that PSA might be better off selling some of their platforms thru existing US brands. Thou my guess is the will fix on one PSA brand, to stick in showrooms.

  • avatar
    87 Morgan

    Some good news…the Puegot 508 wagon looks pretty nice, I am kind of a homer for a wagon though. Maybe we could be a Dodge Magnum wagon in the U.S again, it is offered in hybrid form as well so that would help CAFE a bit.

    From what I can tell from perusing the international sites their seems to be some serious overlap between the cars that carry the puegot, Opel, and Citreon name plates. Badge engineering from what I can tell, the small SUV’s seem to look similar, but don’t they all?

    I dunno, yesterday I was certain that would result in a complete failure. Perhaps I should take a more optimistic approach and hope for the best. FCA could use some inventory to fill the small CUV end of the spectrum along with hybrid technology which PSA appears to have. Maybe they can make this work.

  • avatar

    Not going to work. French and Italian government will fight each other to death because something has give up and it cannot be PSA or FIAT. So my prediction will be – you can say goodbye to Chrysler and Dodge. But on other hand it does not solve overcapacity problem in Europe – there are too many brands in Europe and too few people and population shrinks every year (like in Japan). Therefore the war between France and Italy. They worth each other though France was always our ally. But I hope Trump will not send our youth to die in Europe again. Let them resolve their issues without our help this time.

    • 0 avatar
      87 Morgan

      I am going to go on an a limb here and predict that France and Italy will not go to war over a PSA/FCA merger.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      “French and Italian government will fight each other to death”

      Seriously????

      Downsizing will be an issue due to union strength in those countries but it isn’t unmanageable. Chrysler products for the most part aren’t going to sell in the EU. Europe is a contracting market but India, China and Brazil are expanding. PSA now has access to NAFTA countries through FCA.

  • avatar
    BC

    The Angelli family clearly wants to divest at least some of its FCAU holdings but cannot under current circumstances. This gives them cover.

    State sponsored automobile development will only ensure mediocrity. Not good for Jeep/Ram/Alfa/Maserati. Don’t think it changes much for Dodge and their continued under investment. Gives Fiat a lifeline. Chrysler? Who knows/cares?

  • avatar
    thejohnnycanuck

    I’m sure all the stand-alone Fiat dealers are salivating at the prospect of having the Peugeot brand enter the fold. With the house brand falling ever further into the abyss no doubt they’d love to have something else to sell.

    Or just something that sells, period.

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    On the topic of hand signals, pretty sure you should *not* do that ‘ok’ sign.

    Oh, and…
    “Enfer Chat”

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    Where does this leave GM? (And is Mary Barra at home ordering a foam finger with all five fingers extended?)

  • avatar
    Jerome10

    OK, so they’ve agreed.

    The real question…. will the regulatory bodies approve it?

    Dealing with France was basically the downfall of the Renault discussion. Why would this one be any different?

    French are gonna French, and when it comes to business and economics that is a very bad thing.

    I wouldn’t be surprised at all if this deal falls through.

    • 0 avatar
      Hummer

      I’m hoping this falls through but I think this is too good of a deal for PSA or even the French to pass up. They will do whatever it takes to latch onto FCA.

      • 0 avatar
        RHD

        Maybe the French can manufacture some Jeeps on their own soil and defend their own derrieres the next time they get invaded.

        • 0 avatar
          Arthur Dailey

          Well it was the French who were responsible for the British losing the American Revolutionary War, but then I doubt that you are actually taught that bit of history, now.

          However 19th century Americans knew it.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Yep. There’s a reason why there are so many cities and streets named “Lafayette” – without the French, the World Series game last night would have opened with a stunning rendition of “God Save The Queen.”

          • 0 avatar
            Sceptic

            The French definitely helped in the Colonial war against the British in the late 18th century. But making it a decisive factor in America gaining its independence is a bit of an overstatement.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Google “Battle of the Chesapeake” and tell me again that French help wasn’t decisive. That battle was the reason why the British surrendered at Yorktown.

            French help was absolutely vital…and that’s just the most obvious example.

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            FreedMike is correct. The participation of the French Navy was crucial in bottling in the British forces.

            There were actually more French ‘regular’ troops involved than there were members of the American ‘Continental Army’. Which was not a rare occurrence. And the French suffered more casualties than the Americans.

            French efforts on behalf of the ‘revolutionaries’ put such a strain on French finances that the French government went into exorbitant debt, resulting in the French Revolution.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            This. And all to basically flip the middle finger at the British. Silly, self-sabotaging move on their part, but it did gain independence for the U.S.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            One way to look at it is like this… What if Texas were to try to revolt and leave the USA? They would not stand a hope in hell…. BUT… If the USA was involved in a global war with China, Russia, and the Middle East…. under those circumstances, how would Texas fair?

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Such a thing is inevitable.

            STEP 1: Break a large previously stable nation into four pieces.

            STEP 2: Create conditions where the subsequent nation-states war with each other.

            STEP 3: Back both sides with debt from a fraudulent currency backed by nothing and collect interest on the debts from the winner.

            Where have I seen this movie before?

          • 0 avatar

            May be, but Mexicans beat hell out of French.

          • 0 avatar
            ToolGuy

            “God Save the Queen” does have a catchy tune. Almost like I’ve heard it someplace else?

  • avatar
    ToolGuy

    Are we allowed to have Opels? Vauxhalls?

  • avatar
    mcs

    They need to bring in Nissan and Renault to the deal. That way they can be FNCRAP – Fiat, Nissan, Chrysler, Renault, And Peugeot.

  • avatar
    DragDog

    PSA gets North American distribution and a good V6 (Pentastar).
    Fiat-Chrysler get modern small car platforms and EV tech.

    PSA seems to be following the 1990s-VW expansion formula: buy brands, keep them, but rationalize all the products on one set of platforms/engines. PSA has their new EMP1/EMP2 platforms and Opel/Vauxhall are already mostly rationalized.

    Expect Fiat products to quickly switch to PSA platforms/engines and lean heavily on “Italian passion” to distinguish themselves.

    Ram and Wrangler/Gladiator are clearly safe and may sell OK in export markets through PSA dealers. Crossover Jeeps will move to EMP2 and PSA engines for efficiencies.

    Dodge will become a slew of rebadged FWD Peugeots (per the VW formula) and run out the clock on the current Challenger/Charger as long as they’re viable. PSA wants their brands in USA so will insist on selling one at Dodge dealers. Probably DS since it doesn’t sound so foreign.

    Alfa reverts to being mostly FWD (this time on PSA platforms). If Alfa and Dodge are lucky they’ll somehow share one RWD platform for (heavy) Alfa sports sedans and (expensive) Dodge muscle cars.

    The Chrysler and Maserati brands are sold to the Chinese.

  • avatar

    Let’s be honest the French auto industry is in better shape than the American auto industry. Soon the French will be engineering all of FCA cars.
    Each year things just keep getting worse.

    • 0 avatar

      I always marvel at French engineering because they have a habit of ignoring what the rest of the world does and do their own thing. Now the reliability of French engineering that might give me some concern.

      On that note one of Chrysler’s best selling small cars (Omni) was a french design by Simca, which is now part of PSA.

  • avatar

    A few years ago hapless Mary Barra sold off Opel of to PSA, and PSA dramatically increased in size. A potential marriage between PSA and FCA would create the world’s fourth-largest car company and drop GM to fifth place !! Barra has certainly done a number on GM.

    Excrement.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      GM HAD the mentality of being the biggest *period*. That lead to their downfall. There is no shame in being the 4th largest global company as long as they are profitable and stable. That matters more than sheer volume or global presence.

  • avatar
    Manic

    Here in Europe Fiat is currently a van brand (but sells some 500s/Pandas too).
    These Ducato vans are known in the US as RAM Promaster. These same vans have been available in Europe for decades as Peugeot and Citroen vans.
    Smaller ones too, based on: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSA_EMP2_platform
    There’s some Opel badges already.
    Not sure if they will take this badge engineering to US car market but at least here they will probably try to pull an VAG i.e. create good platforms and put different looking body on them under different brands. Profit, maybe. Something will be killed off but not many brands. VW still wants Alfa?

  • avatar
    Manic

    “11-person board, 6 from Peugeot, incl. CEO Carlos Tavares + 5 from FCA, incl. John Elkann, a member Agnelli family. Exor, the Agnelli family investment company, will have the largest stake in the merged group. Other large shareholders are the Peugeot family, China’s Dongfeng Motor and the French state. Chairman John Elkann will chair the combined group, which will be based in the Netherlands, and Peugeot’s Chief Executive Carlos Tavares will be the new CEO. FCA will pay its shareholders a €5.5bn special dividend and hand them shares in robot-making unit Comau.” Not a finalized deal yet, tho.

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    On paper, it makes sense. The big questions:
    1) Will the product be any good? (Jury’s out)
    2) Will this provide a lifeline for Chrysler and Dodge? (I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s exactly what happens – I’d think PSA has a better chance of selling Peugeots or Opels as Chryslers or Dodges)
    3) Does this herald the triumphant return of Citroen? (I hope so)
    4) Are we now going to see Fiat/Alfa/Maserati/Citroen/Peugeot stores? (Again, I hope so – we give nothing but crap to Fiat and Alfa around here, but their stuff isn’t some boring CR-V clone, so I say Godspeed to them)

  • avatar
    deanst

    If PSA has a brain (debateable) they would bring over their technology and vehicles and brand them as Chryslers. French brands have no value in the auto industry, and Chrysler has no identity now, but it does have brand awareness. Dodge should be used as a low volume purveyor of funky and sporty vehicles. The last thing they should do is try to launch an upscale brand, but I suspect hubris will compel them to eventually.

    The other question is Ford Europe. What was once 3 competitors – PSA, GM AND Fiat – are now one. This should represent huge opportunities for Ford as PSA tries to amalgamate all that crap. But I suspect under the fearless guidance of mr. cubicle they will cower in fear and try to latch onto VW.

    • 0 avatar
      87 Morgan

      deanst, I am leaning your direction here.

      Chrysler used to be an upscale brand, and is still today to some degree. From an expense stand point I see little value in bringing more brands to the US, C/J/D/R is already a mouthful no need really to add another C or P. Their is a strong need for the vehicles they already produce though along with the hybrid technology.

      To your other point, I too agree that hubris and ego will get in the way and some chain smoking chocolate for breakfast eating frenchman will vehemently demand the Puegot brand name be splattered all over US stores because we need the ‘culture’. Along the same path a certain chain smoking spaghetti for breakfast eating fella insisted the US needed Fiats and Alfa Romeo’s because you know, culture and stuff.

  • avatar
    threeer

    While I’d love to see something like the 208 or 308 come over here, I doubt that will ever happen. It’ll be SUV, SUV, SUV…and I’m not “entirely” comfortable with China potentially owing a stake in a company that makes the Jeep…

  • avatar

    just another shell game by the banks who control the Boards, which allows them to rape the corps of capital.

    see “Frenzied Finance” by Thomas Lawson of Boston.

  • avatar
    IBx1

    Citroen sedans would be perfect for the US if we were still buying sedans. A C5 was far and away our most comfortable Uber in Paris.

  • avatar

    The French left the US market years ago for not being competitive enough. Today it is the reverse. The Americans (GM) left Europe because they could not compete, and now the French are returning the US. This deal will make French car makers larger in sales volume than their American counterparts.

  • avatar
    MotorCityMotorhead

    I don’t see how this Frenchie/Italian/American/Canadian sandwich is going to appeal to many people. The Frogs and Italians will play max-protect with their overpaid, underachieving, socialist government protected employees, and the poor folks here in the Colonies won’t have the votes to have a seat at the big boy table. I can’t wait to go plunk down for that racy new Citroen/Peugeot/Fiat/Eagle CUV that will just be bonkers in terms of styling, reliability and resale value…

    • 0 avatar
      ghostwhowalksnz

      A car brand is just that. for US buyers they will just see delaers selling Dodge, Jeep Ram or maybe occasionally Chrysler
      Do you worry about your Canadian or Mexican built US brand or even US built Mercedes or BMW that are shipped all over the world. You wouldnt believe how much chinese content is in a US car part from those wholly made there.
      The “Citroen/Peugeot/Fiat/Eagle CUV” is a figment of your imagination. – You arent salesman for a rival brand are you ?

  • avatar
    Thomas Kreutzer

    I don’t see this helping anyone who is an auto enthusiast. A combined corporate front office will winnow down the diversity as much as possible and homogenize all these brands’ lineups. The end result, I predict, will look like GM badge engineering from the ’70s and ’80s, quite possibly without even the small details that differentiated Pontiac from Buick from Olds from Chevrolet.

    If they think Americans are going to swoon because we can now get oddball cars with American style nameplates at familiar dealers, they are going to be sorely disappointed. You would think they learned something from the Dart. While it was a nice looking little car with a pretty interior and a venerable nameplate, it didn’t fit the American market, didn’t sell well and disappeared as quickly as it came.

    I can imagine a similar effect in the rest of the world where North American market vehicles have a tough time being anything other than boutique brands for people who want something different. Homogenization is just not going to work. Better to take the technical underpinnings and adapt them to market-specific vehicles.

    I think Chrysler – if it stays at all – would be better off going up brand with just one or two models. Dodge should go down and mid-market with vehicles that are maybe one-step behind the cutting edge but offer proven reliability and good value. Let the organization’s other brands in those parts of the world where people like to be early adopters hammer out all the technical bugs and only bring those innovations stateside when they are fully ready.

  • avatar
    Manic

    So, you Americans think that co. selling nearly 4 million cars pa, having a record operating margin of 8.7% and income increase of 11% for H1/19, produces only complete crap? (Never have I thought I would defend them but here we go)

    • 0 avatar

      To be fair many here think FCA is crap too, despite sales and profit (10.6%) numbers.

    • 0 avatar
      Yankee

      Good Call Manic. The problem is that we Americans have terrible taste in cars and are indoctrinated to want an “image” and the next shiny new thing ever since General Motors introduced the concept of the Annual Model Change in the 1920s. This is why people pay ridiculous money to drive off in Chrysler Grand Cherokees (they put a “Jeep” badge on it!), with recall notices waiting in their mailboxes when they get home from the dealer. Same reason Americans pay stupid amounts of money to buy Harley-Davidson motorcycles made with Vietnamese parts and a horrific record of reliability; the sticker makes them feel better about themselves. Meanwhile, mechanics like me just scratch our heads in disbelief at what we see coming apart on these things in the first year of ownership, much less years down the road for the unfortunate second owner, after the first owner cut his losses and rolled the payment into the next piece of crap they affixed a “Jeep” badge to.

      • 0 avatar

        I don’t know lot’s of mechanics drive GM Mopar Ford etc. Heck some even drive VW’s. Some is brand loyalty but some is the company offering something unique. Cummins in the ram, Soft Wrangler, etc. Plus you get into the value proposition with things like the Journey.

    • 0 avatar
      jack4x

      McDonalds sells a lot of hamburgers at a good profit, that doesn’t make them a fine dining establishment.

      • 0 avatar
        ToolGuy

        Off topic – my fast food theory:
        a) Good
        b) Fast
        c) Cheap

        At most fast food places, you maybe can get 2 out of 3 of those.

        [To me, McD’s is 0 for 3.]

      • 0 avatar

        Mc’D’s is a good example. No one thinks it’s the best (well unless your 8) but it still sells huge numbers of Burgers. It’s because they offer something else.
        Value
        Convenience
        Speed
        Etc.
        And to the one that probably relates most to the automotive spectrum is the un-quantifiable desire factor. Every once in a while some people just crave a Mcdonalds Burger. Just like a Boomer will crave a New Muscle car that looks like the ones driving around when he was a kid. Or the 65 year old dentist trying to feel a little more badass by getting an electra glide.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          Well, I happen to like McD’s and eat there a lot with friends, on the go, and even take piles of fries home.

          So to say they are or they are not the best in fast food is kinda missing the point of why McDs exists.

          There’s a market for them!

          But I do not believe that there is a market for French-inspired automobiles in America because America is not nearly as Europeanized as, let’s say, Canada, Greenland, Iceland, or even Russia.

    • 0 avatar
      RHD

      Hang on, what about the socialist unionized blah blah going down the tubes etc etc etc frogs blah ities blah sky is falling?

      Having well-paying, secure employment is a very good thing, especially when your company prospers. Why is misery and exploitation required? Chinese working conditions aren’t the best that the human race can do. You only live once, how about giving the assembly line guys and their families a decent sliver of the pie?

  • avatar
    CKNSLS Sierra SLT

    Manic-

    On this forum you can never let facts get in the way of opinion!

  • avatar
    tankinbeans

    Would GM still own the rights to the Regal, even though PSA is building it, or could it conceivably come through as a Chrysler or perhaps a Dodge? It’s an attractive rig, but I don’t know if it could work.

    • 0 avatar
      ghostwhowalksnz

      You wouldnt buy a car brand and production facilities and then pay royalties for a standard sort of car. Maybe some license fees for engines or transmissions that are part of GM worldwide and they have kept for that reason. Not a problem to put Peugeot engines in the Opel Insignia and I think they have been doing that for some of the small models.

  • avatar
    Manic

    What I’m saying is that someone buys what they offer (Peugeots, BigMacs), there’s even huge amount of repeat customers. Are they all fools?
    Not sure if memories from 40 years back are that relevant anymore.

    Maybe they should offer mix of euro- SUVs&EVs under Opel brand in the US?
    Would come without any baggage from the past.

    • 0 avatar

      Let me make wild guess – PSA sells majority of them in developing countries. Americans have different taste in cars than the rest of the world – cars have to be bigger and offer more value. Or be German if you have more money to spare. PSA would be popular in Russia though. Or Iran.

  • avatar
    Steve203

    My hunch is Tavares is in empire building mode. Same thing happened to Iacocca when he bought Lamborghini and Gulfstream. Same thing happened to Piech when he bought Skoda, Seat, Lamborghini, Ducati, Bentley and Bugatti.

    A Citroen is already the same as a Peugeot. Opels and Vauxhalls on on their way to being rebadged Pugs as well, competing in the same segments as the existing Pugs.

    In Europe, Fiat owns the city car segment with the 500 and Panda, but the Punta is gone, the Tipo is on the way out, the 500L is in a dying category and the 500X is losing ground to the Renegade.

    Opel has a lot of excess capacity. Fiat has a lot of excess capacity.

    In North America, Peugeot passenger cars are irrelevant and the Pug SUVs would fight Jeep.

    There are so few synergies that the entire operation looks like Tavares has pumped himself up with his success turning around Peugeot and Opel, and simply wants a bigger one to wave around.

    The timing is horrible too. FCA has to sign a contract with the UAW. What are the workers going to think of another merger?

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      There will be a brand rationalization.

      In Europe, Fiat will sell city cars; Peugeot will be the mass-market brand; Citroën will become what DS is now; and Opel/Vauxhall will probably disappear (though in the UK they might prefer to market Peugeots as Vauxhalls). Jeep will sell a limited number of Wranglers and Grand Cherokees at high margins.

      In the US, we’ll have more or less what we have now, although Fiat and Chrysler will probably disappear. We might see a couple bigger Peugeots come over as Dodges, maybe.

      • 0 avatar

        One thing Sergio did manage to do was actually build a decent number of EU Jeep sales. In 2011 they sole 23K Jeeps in the EU last year the sold 165k. Which is kind of crazy.

        One thing to do with a mess of brands is to target them around the world. Pull Fiat out of NA, keep in SA. Keep Alfa because they spent to much on it so might as well follow thru. As you mention reposition things in Europe. I expect you will see some Dodge badged Peugots, as that seems to work better then introducing a new brand to the US. Chrysler, I don’t know I could go either way, they either fill it with rebadges or kill it.

  • avatar
    schmitt trigger

    Maybe Chrysler’s UAW workers will copy the gilet jaunes?

  • avatar
    dal20402

    “merge” LOL

    This is PSA buying Ram and Jeep, nothing more.

    • 0 avatar

      The details seem to indicate that is partially true. PSA is buying NA manufacturing and dealers. And obviously a couple really strong brands. I’m curious how it works in the end. PSA is ponying up now but the management makeup seems like the FCA half wants to maintain some control. Do we see another merger of equals?

    • 0 avatar
      Manic

      Well, Exor would be biggest shareholder and Elkann Chairman of the board.
      Not sure why you think PSA have freedom to do what they want.

      • 0 avatar
        ghostwhowalksnz

        Exor has only 28% of Fiat Chrysler now . Even 14% of the merged entity isnt giving you much control in the 50/50 merger with one board member chairman( even if the family has 53% of Exor which does given them control)
        The Peugeot family only has 14% of PSA ( down from 25%) after the 2014 restructure when the french government and Donfeng each got 14% in a capital raising.

    • 0 avatar
      ToddAtlasF1

      Is it PSA buying Fiat, or is it Dongfeng buying Fiat using its PSA shell?

      • 0 avatar
        conundrum

        What, Dongfeng taking over FCA with its 12.2% “shell” share of PSA? That’s like all the hopefuls here who never use Google and think Toyota runs Subaru with only 20% of its shares.

        Bloomberg says Dongfeng has been thinking of divesting its PSA holdings since earlier this year. Hell, you can’t give away FCA or PSA (or Fords for that matter) vehicles in China these days, and Dongfeng is sitting on a PSA assembly factory in China making scarcely nothing. They want to hitch their cart to a company with a clue, and these two semi-clueless companies FCA and PSA aren’t going to do it for them.

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