By on December 3, 2018

Trump

Last night President Donald Trump tweeted that China had agreed to reduce tariffs. While The People’s Republic already lowered tariffs over the summer, it chose to cut the United States out of that deal as trade relations worsened. In fact, America found itself subject to an increased, 40-percent fine on imported autos while the rest of the world saw their tariffs (partially) eased. But the president seems optimistic.

“My meeting in Argentina with President Xi of China was an extraordinary one,” Trump explained in a follow-up post. “Relations with China have taken a BIG leap forward! Very good things will happen. We are dealing from great strength, but China likewise has much to gain if and when a deal is completed. Level the field!”

Meanwhile, China remains silent on the matter. 

The stock market, on the other hand, is making noise. The announcement appears to have helped the share price of numerous automakers. General Motors and Daimler shares rose by more than 4 percent in premarket trading while Ford and Tesla increased by about 3 percent apiece. German manufacturers fared even better.

However, the important question here is whether China actually plans to reduce tariffs. Diplomats from the country have been silent, asking that all questions on the issue be forwarded to the Commerce Ministry. But that body is unlikely to say anything until later this week, when it holds its weekly news conference. This isn’t abnormal for China, as most public communications are gone over with a fine-toothed comb prior to release. The nation is extremely careful of what it says to the public (and vice versa).

There’s a chance that China is weighing its options. While it could certainly renege on whatever promise was made to the president, making him look ineffectual, it might not be a good idea to further worsen trade relations — especially with so little to gain.

Most American-branded vehicles sold in China are already built there via joint ventures with Asian firms. Only a small fraction are actually imported directly from the United States. China may feel it has less to lose by opening up the market at this juncture. However, that wouldn’t make the decision meaningful for automakers.  “If they cancel the extra 25 percent tariff on U.S.-made cars, then we will see positive signs for imported cars,” Wang Cun, director of the China Automobile Dealers Association’s import committee, told reporters.

According to Reuters, the agreement went down following an extended dinner with Xi Jinping on Saturday in Buenos Aires. Trump agreed to postpone an increase in the tariff rate on $200 billion worth of Chinese imports to 25 percent from 10 percent that was scheduled for January. 1st. In exchange, China agreed to resume purchases of some U.S. farm and energy commodities.

While promising, that doesn’t exactly guarantee anything specifically relating to cars and still involves a 90-day period where the two countries discuss China’s policies on technology transfers, intellectual property protection, non-tariff barriers, cyber intrusions and theft, services and agriculture. We expect China to make an announcement by Thursday.

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119 Comments on “Trade War Watch: Trump Says China Will Remove Car Tariffs, China Claims Nothing...”


  • avatar
    Vulpine

    Seems to me the blowhard is putting us ever deeper in the hole. If he keeps this up, the US will be a third-world country by the time he’s voted out.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      In quality of life we are already 3rd world. Now, what is your wish – that all automakers run to China and Mexico and more MS13 come over?

      • 0 avatar
        Vulpine

        “Now, what is your wish – that all automakers run to China and Mexico and more MS13 come over?”

        If he keeps having his way, that’s exactly what will happen.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Vulpine,

          oh yea? Well, they build all sorts of cars in russia – Ford, Nissan, Mazda, Toyota, Chevy, etc. You know why? Because Russia told them – you want to sell here – build here.

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            … And China has told US the same thing.

          • 0 avatar
            threeer

            Then why can’t we tell the Chinese the same thing? You want to sell in the US? Build in the US. Yes, Geely is building Volvos in Charleston…but bigger picture “goose and gander” and all that…

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            @threeer: “Then why can’t we tell the Chinese the same thing? You want to sell in the US? Build in the US. Yes, Geely is building Volvos in Charleston…but bigger picture “goose and gander” and all that…”

            • Did Volkwagen build in the US before importing?
            • Did Fiat build in the US before importing?
            • Did Toyota build in the US before importing?
            • Did Nissan build in the US before importing?

            I hope you get the point here. It’s a total waste of money to build a factory if you don’t even know if your product will sell in enough numbers to even make it worth trying. The US exported cars to China long before China said, “Build ’em here,” because they were proving so popular (especially the Buick.) So making such a demand before we even know there’s a ready market for it is simply stupid.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Vulpine, I never was against US cars being build in China for Chinese market. I am against bringing them to US. I would put 100% tax on any car made by American manufacturer brought from outside of US

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            @slavuta: You do know that many Chevrolet, Buick and other GM cars were built in Europe, don’t you? Based on what you just said, those cars should have been priced double in the US than they were.

            You do know that many Ford cars were built in Europe, don’t you? Based on what you just said, those cars should have been priced double in the US than they were.

            Clearly, you have no business sense or economic sense. You want to promote business in your country, not stifle it.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          I would EXTRA tax any American company that brings its product to US from other countries. Period

          “Clearly, you have no business sense or economic sense. You want to promote business in your country, not stifle it.”

          What is clear to me, you just want business as usual. And this what corporations want and they instilled these things into minds of broad populations, wrote books, brainwashed you in college, etc.

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            “What is clear to me, you just want business as usual. And this what corporations want and they instilled these things into minds of broad populations, wrote books, brainwashed you in college, etc.”

            — That’s where you’re wrong, slavuta. What I want is businesses to survive, NOT be driven out of business by userous unnecessary tariffs and taxes just because their manufacturing os off-shored. The reason they’re off-shoring in the first place is because costs in the US are too high for materials and labor and these tariffs are driving those costs even higher. That’s at least one reason why Ford is bleeding money and GM is shutting down 5 plants! Why are those costs up? Because the materials they’re using come from overseas and we simply no longer have the means to manufacture steel and aluminum in the quantities needed… THOSE business being driven off-shore over 40 years ago.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          But, if demand for local materials increases… may be steel industry will return. I understand that if my country is Belgium, or Luxembourg, there is no way to produce steel. But US us huge country and we can make some steel here. In fact, not far from me there is steel factory. People go to work every day, make American steel. Nice. Someone sold our country out for profits and we lost in many ways. American bridges are now built from chinese metal products. This is funny even

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            Does Allentown produce steel any more?
            Does Philadelphia produce steel any more?
            What about the other old steel-making cities?

            No, these problems weren’t caused by Obama. These problems weren’t created by a Democrat. They were created by a disgraced Republican, over 40 years ago.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          Vulpine,

          I didn’t say “Obama” or “democrat”. I said “corporations”. Regardless how long ago. We let them to do anything they want. You want to make steel in China – fine. Bring it here , pay 100% tax. Just like that.

          Now, open PA in google maps and type “Arcelor Mittal”. And this is my point. US gov. needs to create conditions so that we will be busy making things. This is only true capitalism, when you make, sell, collect gold, become power. Everything else only works temporarily and leads to unrest. Capitalism must be responsible one otherwise it will quickly turn into totalitarian system of some variety.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          “And it requires governmental oversight to keep Capitalism responsible.”

          All that required:
          1. Ban lobbying
          2. Ban campaign money from corporations so that politicians can make decisions independently
          3. Create rules that will benefit American Job creation
          4. Prosecute officials with the toughest punishments for any sort of dealing. To the point that no one wants to be appointed anywhere. This way we will ge the cleanest people out there

      • 0 avatar
        Hydromatic

        “Now, what is your wish – that all automakers run to China and Mexico and more MS13 come over?”

        Bedtime story boogeymen for scared children.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          In fact, I think, they don’t talk enough about Latin gangs. Media, of course, doesn’t want to spook latino voters. The reality is such that people are being murdered en-mass on the streets in just about every latin country. Then they come here and … become nice dudes?

          • 0 avatar
            Erikstrawn

            “The reality is such that people are being murdered en-mass on the streets in just about every latin country.” That’s not the reality, that’s what right-wing media wants you to believe. I’ve been to many Central and South American countries, and they’re ordinary people, working hard and trying to get ahead. Gangs form when government fails to protect its people. That’s why we see gangs form in the US in places government wants to ignore.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Erikstrawn,

            you are delusional. Latin America is so ahead of everyone else in murder that Africa looks like children playground https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

      • 0 avatar
        bd2

        MS13 originated in the US and really spread via US prisons.

  • avatar
    Mike Bevington

    “Big leap forward”? Does he know anything about the Great Leap Forward? Does he know they’re messing with him?

  • avatar
    sportyaccordy

    Ah like when Mexico was going to pay for the wall. Must be one of those new fangled alternative facts.

    • 0 avatar
      TrailerTrash

      really, really tired of this remark.
      did you cut and paste it?

      trump still can get mexico to pay for it, but i guess you don’t really understand the counterpunches he is getting from the left and his own pansy deep state repubs. nobody will allow him to take away foreign aid and other monies from mexico.
      nobody wants to play the hardball needed to get mexico to hand over.

      but might as well just keep posting these ridiculous yet popular comments.

      • 0 avatar
        Fordson

        Yeah, those Repubs in Congress won’t support him enough. They’re already walking right off the edge of an effing cliff to be his stooges, but they’re RINOs.

        Hopefully there will continue to be counterpunches from the left – you ain’t seen nothin’ yet. Wait until January.

        • 0 avatar
          TrailerTrash

          with what historical midterm perspective are you speaking of?
          the mid term losses of Obama?
          Clinton?
          GOP GAINED IN THE SENATE!
          Which one please, please tell us.
          i mean, really, for a president to have accomplished so many of his goals in two years and then to be attacked on this one is so damned childish.
          get a grip.

          wait until january?
          PULEEEZE!
          these same old dems had total government and did nuthin.
          it aint gonna be easier with a larger loss in the damned senate!

          • 0 avatar
            bd2

            What GOALS?

            And it was a pretty historical beatdown in the House; the Senate was always in the Republican’s favor due to the seats that were up.

          • 0 avatar
            TrailerTrash

            bd2

            really? seriously, you are unaware of trumps accomplishments? are you so part of the modern group think that you no longer read, just repeat the marching chant as passed through the crowd?

            it’s so laughable to see you have volpine on your side. it makes your whole position broadcast itself as the junk it is.
            so chock full of ATS, just need to help you.

            US Debt has decreased under President Trump since his inauguration by (-$103) Billion. (President Obama increased the US debt in his first 6 months more than $974 Billion or nearly $1 Trillion.)

            reduce the number of burdensome regulations put in place during the Obama era. In January President Trump signed his 2 for 1 executive order mandating that for every new regulation, two regulations needed to be revoked. Even far left Politico notes that.
            Dismantled Obama’s climate change initiatives!!!

            NATO announced Allied spending is up $10 Billion because of President Trump

            appointed TWO SUPREME JUSTICES

            Approving pipelines

            hiring freeze on federal employees

            took the US from the TPP!!!!

            ended the iran deal and restarted the sanctions.

            Mandating for every new regulation to eliminate two

            Trump signed into law in December a business tax cut that slashed corporate tax rates, leading us to the greatest american business and jobs growth in history.

            you damn kids were ruined by your education.

      • 0 avatar
        sportyaccordy

        “really, really tired of this remark.”

        Truth hurts I guess.

        • 0 avatar
          Vulpine

          Sporty, I don’t often agree with you, but this time I do.

          • 0 avatar
            Kek

            Everyone knows that Chinese were backing Clinton. The Russians were backing Trump. And the Indians were backing Bobby Jindal. What can we conclude from this? Indians are the least threat to US.
            Also, we had to choose lesser of the two evils. Russia is more naturally close to US than China. TBH after the Kenyans backed Obama and won – I was relieved that Russians were standing with Trump.
            Trumps report card so far:
            Owned the Libs
            Owned the Chinese
            Owned by the Russians

            I will still vote for him in 2020, 2024 and 2028. After that it will be Ivanka and Jared’s turn.

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            @Kek: “Everyone knows that Chinese were backing Clinton.”
            — Not everyone.

            “And the Indians were backing Bobby Jindal.”
            — Who?

            My friend, I feel very, very sorry for you. Your perception of the current situation is very badly flawed.

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            @Kek: “Everyone knows that Chinese were backing Clinton.”
            — Not everyone.

            “And the Indians were backing Bobby Jindal.”
            — Who?

            My friend, I feel very, very sorry for you. Your perception of the current situation is very badly flawed.

          • 0 avatar
            PandaBear

            “Russia is more naturally close to US than China.”

            Hahahahahahahaha……..

        • 0 avatar
          Arthur Dailey

          @trailertrash: Please stick to facts

          1) The US national debt is by its own account rising to record levels in 2018. I have posted the link: https://www.statista.com/statistics/187867/public-debt-of-the-united-states-since-1990/
          2) Many of the other ‘accomplishments’ that you listed would be considered by others to be ‘failures’. Such as not participating in the TPP or the end results of the tax cuts which have proven to have had a negative impact on the majority of Americans.
          3) Appointing Justices to the Court is easy if you have a majority in the House of Reps and Senate. Not an accomplishment but a slam dunk. But a very important one.
          4) The switch from NAFTA to the USMCA was merely paper dressing. The majority of the previous agreement remained intact.
          5) Has not accomplished most of his promises: a) the wall, b) the mid-east, c) bringing back manufacturing jobs, d) reducing crime, e) bringing American troops home.
          6) The rise in employment merely was the continuation of an existing trend. And fueled by debt. The markets are exhibiting extreme volatility, inflation is rising.

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    “Trump Says China Will Remove Car Tariffs…”

    Did he wave his hand around when he said it? Maybe he’s trying to bone up on his Jedi skills.

  • avatar
    crispin001

    The fact that Trump is the ONLY one who has ever forcefully advocated on behalf of the US should be the real cause for concern here. When he’s gone, there will be no advocate for the US on the world stage, just the usual globalist crap.

    Having a forceful international advocate for the US is good. Also, having a president that AT LEAST ENCOURAGES U.S. manufacturing as much as possible is also good.

    However, the Chinese always play the long game and will wait Trump out. They are stalling him with every little trade meeting and the do-nothing “summits” on N. Korean nukes.

    The fact that Trump is AT LEAST asking some long-ignored questions about our relationship with China (i.e., IP theft, the overall trade imbalance, etc.), and that he is actually approaching the Chinese to resolve these issues, is good for the country.

    The Chinese need to understand that the Brits screwed them over in the old days, not the US. As such, if they want to get even with the West they can just buy Europe.

    I want Trump to get the Chinese to make the yuan convertible for US companies so that they don’t have to take profits out of China in Chinese-produced goods/services. No more “local partners,” and no more technology transfers. LET HIM AT LEAST TRY. Let’s back him up.

    One man can’t advocate for the U.S. alone, even the President of the United States. He is by no means perfect. But he needs our support to TRY to straighten things out, or at least move China toward doing the right thing.

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      Ya, Nixon and Kissinger didn’t do crap in China.

      [eyeroll]

      • 0 avatar

        Nixon and Kissinger just helped it turn into the superpower it is today, at the West’s expense.

      • 0 avatar
        crispin001

        Yeah, because we were losing our shirts back then with a $375bn yearly trade deficit.

        • 0 avatar
          APaGttH

          US GDP in 2017 was 19.39 TRILLION. If you think $375B is losing our shirts…there is no help.

          Not…all…trade…deficit…is…bad.

          History has shown over and over again in multiple economic systems that a closed policy on trade leads to economic hardship. Less choice, higher prices, lower quality.

          There isn’t an exception on the planet.

          Shop at Walmart? Own an iPhone? The list goes on and on. Unless you have banned all Chinese products from your purchasing decisions you’re part of the problem.

          • 0 avatar
            crispin001

            I do own an iPhone and shop at Walmart. That doesn’t preclude me from supporting fair/free trade with China by asking them to respect IP rights and not force our companies to transfer IP just to do business in the PRC (among other issues).

            $375bn with China is only part of the problem….look at the overall trade deficit, the overall balance of payments plus the federal deficit (yeah, I know the balance of payments encapsulates some interest on the national debt).

            I at least thought the balance of payments number would improve as the U.S. increased energy production, but this hasn’t been the case. In large measure the fact that our economy is relatively robust makes us a net importer, with trade barriers to US goods around the world compounding the issue.

            I am not an advocate of a closed trade policy. I am, however, an advocate of moving the Chinese in the right direction with targeted trade action to bring down trade barriers.

          • 0 avatar
            slavuta

            Me. Me.
            I practically have no Chinese products. Even bought appliances made in US. And I don’t even shop at Walmart.

    • 0 avatar
      Vulpine

      Trump says what he knows people want to hear—then does whatever he wants, regardless of ethics or legality.

    • 0 avatar
      Fordson

      “Only I can do it.”

      “He is by no means perfect.” I guess you’re one of those RINOs who insufficiently support him.

      He’s by no means perfect – he is the most total and complete train wreck we’ve ever had.

    • 0 avatar
      bd2

      Actually, the Orange Dotard only CLAIMS to advocate for the US (well, make that his base), but in reality, most of that is bragging/hot air w/ little substance and who Drumpf looks after is himself (which is why he kowtows to Putin and Prince Mohammed bin Salman).

  • avatar
    jacob_coulter

    If he gets half of what he’s asking from the Chinese, he’ll have outperformed every President in living memory of fighting for American industry.

    I guess some people are rooting for China against the United States because they don’t like the current President. I don’t remember nearly the fits when Obama slapped tariffs on Chinese tires.

    40% tariff on American car imports to China and people just think we should lie down and take it? And that’s only the tip of the iceberg. Even Elon Musk was saying it’s crazy that we accept those sorts of penalties from the Chinese. And what do we get in return for letting them do that?

    And this is also from a country that basically has a dictator for life, no real democracy, crazy human rights abuses, disgusting working conditions where people are jumping off buildings in protest, hostile national security goals, etc.

    But orange man bad, he made mean tweets.

    • 0 avatar

      Jacob, you get it. Kudos.

    • 0 avatar
      Astigmatism

      There are 40% tariffs on American can exports to China because China was retaliating for American tariffs on imported Chinese goods. Pardon us for not throwing a parade.

      • 0 avatar
        jacob_coulter

        What tariffs on Chinese goods and how much? When was the 40% tariff on American cars enacted and what was that in response to?

        Here’s the problem, our American corporations are dealing against us because they want to offshore everything. So policy makers are contending with American companies and lobbyists wanting to give China a blank check as well as Chinese industry also fighting for a blank check. And they usually get their way.

        Be honest, I bet 99% of posters that follow the auto industry on this board had no idea China had a 40% tariff on American imported cars until Trump brought it up.

        Again, I don’t think he’ll get everything he wants, but this is the first real attempt I’ve seen by at least someone seriously addressing it. I also hope the next Democrat President fights for American jobs in the same way. That’s what they always promised their union due paying donors.

        • 0 avatar
          Astigmatism

          The 40% tariff on American cars was put in place in July, in response to a number of tariffs that the Trump administration had put in place in the first half of 2018. The reason posters that follow the auto industry on this board had no idea China had a 40% tariff on American imported cars until Trump brought it up was because China _didn’t_ have a 40% tariff on American imported cars until Trump started slapping tariffs on Chinese goods.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Right, because PRC never had any tariffs on non-automotive foreign goods before 2018.

            This is a game of leverage. Starting with Nixon and accelerating under Clinton, your government GAVE the fricking economy to East Asia. Now many processed goods come from the region, specifically the PRC. So they have leverage when they then require 50% PRC owned partnerships with foreign companies, technology exchanges, and impose tariffs on imported goods. The administration is attempting to do something about this, and its more than the past four administrations combined. If we lie down and do nothing, as has been prior policy, the economic situation here will continue to deteriorate.

          • 0 avatar
            Astigmatism

            Doing something about it is great. Getting into food fights that increase the cost of American exports (and then declaring victory when the increased costs imposed after we started the food fight are at least temporarily rescinded) is not a particularly effective way of doing something about it.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Your better solution is…?

          • 0 avatar
            Astigmatism

            Leading a group of nations in creating a joint trading bloc as a more attractive alternative to China’s single market sounds like a good idea. Maybe some sort of partnership that spans the Pacific. I wonder what you’d call that sort of thing?

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Trading blocs should be reasonably homogeneous in terms of labor costs. TPP would not have allowed this, it would have simply allowed SE Asia to trump PRC in terms of the lowest cost of labor with the added bonus of corporate tribunals. No sale. Leave the WTO, and negotiate new trading blocs. Every passing day the US loses the a tiny bit of leverage to do this successfully.

            https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/05/04/in-pro-corporate-tribunals-we-trust/

          • 0 avatar
            Astigmatism

            So you mean we should only be able to trade with countries that have roughly equivalent labor costs? How many countries in the world does that allow us to trade with and sell to, exactly?

            I know I, for one, am looking forward to our reversion to 18th-century Jeffersonian agrarianism.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Score! Now you’ve got me excited about an agrarian society. Wasn’t that the Handmaid’s Tale?

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      People don’t understand that we might go through pain now but long term we should do better by fighting China. China is looking to become dominant in the world. And if they will be dominant, our dollar will be [email protected] out. Once transactions will no longer be in $$ – we’re cooked as economy and as state.

      • 0 avatar
        Arthur Dailey

        Capitalism by definition requires free markets and the elimination of tariffs.

        And global companies do not care where they make their profits as long as they profit.

        So how can you be a Republican and favour protectionism or duties?

        I am no supporter of Trump, but that does not mean that I disagree with 100% of his statements. However what he says and what he does are generally quite divergent, and if the Chinese offer economic advantages to any of his family, it appears that he will overlook their other failings.

        As for Communist China, I think that MacArthur (the best President the USA never had) was right, the USA should have defeated them via any means during the Korean War.

        Prior to that the USA believed that it has a ‘special relationship’ with China as they prevented the European powers from physically dividing and colonizing it, and instead insisted on only economic colonization. Unfortunately for the USA they chose the wrong War Lord to back.

        • 0 avatar
          slavuta

          “Capitalism by definition requires free markets and the elimination of tariffs.”

          But China is bunch of commies…

          “economic and political system in which a country’s trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.”

          I don’t see “elimination of tariffs” here

          • 0 avatar
            bd2

            The “commies” in the PRC are more fascists these days.

            As for MacArthur – sorry, but you just don’t start dropping nukes.

            The US military at the time didn’t totally comprehend the power and effects of nuclear weapons.

            In the event of a US invasion of the Japanese mainland, planners had considered the use of small nukes to clear the beachheads for American troops.

  • avatar
    jeoff

    Rolling back tarrifs may actually be the lesser face losing evil for the Chinese—there may not be sufficient alternative sources for some US sourced commodities— https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/10/01/economy/china-soybeans-trade-war/index.html

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      Too late for the farmers who are plowing under their crops or where soybeans have started to rot in storage.

      Oh, and that $12 billion in aid, $1 billion paid out so far but don’t worry, corporate America had an answer for that. The price of storage solutions for unbought grain has gone up so much, that the subsidies are being hovered up by grain storage providers and skyrocketing costs for other solutions.

      The cost has gone up so much that farmers are now just plowing their crops into the ground and taking the loss. That’s OK – those smaller farmers when they go bankrupt will have their property bought pennies on the dollar by factory farms — who are more likely to bring in wink wink questionable help wink wink then the small farmers for harvesting and processing.

  • avatar
    slavuta

    I am surprised that ttac has not posted Trump’s criticism to GMs job/plant cuts.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    You want change? Boycott new goods and yes I’m serious. Stop paying 200% markup for sh!tty products made in sh!tty countries. If you’re going to get ripped off by retail get the quality item from your own country.

    http://www.madeinamerica.co/pages/thelist

    clark.com/shopping-retail/american-made-in-the-usa/

    blog.cheapism.com/products-made-in-usa-16283/

    toddshelton.com/blog/made-in-america/best-made-in-usa-products

  • avatar
    TrailerTrash

    this is a pretty funny piece.

    anybody with any knowledge of the situation and what the chinese face at home know this whole headline is crap.

    china can not broadcast around the world, especially to its people, what it is giving in this discussion.

    to suggest otherwise shows a complete ignorance of the situation.

  • avatar
    pdog_phatpat

    Wait, so China said nothing, or claimed it gave up nothing? Because if it said nothing then its a game of wait and see if the President is right, or wrong. Not sure what the point of this was, besides to make Trump out to be a liar, when nothing has been said.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      That’s right. Time will tell who won and who lost here. My money is on President Trump.

      The Chinese hate to lose face on a global scale and if they won’t play ball, no problem. Just jack up the tariffs and see how long the Chinese will last before they cry Uncle. Hey, tariffs bring money into the Treasury. Billions of dollars coming in instead of going out.

      BTW, biggest tool President Trump has with Mexico, the wall and the caravans is to shut the border down. The last time he did that, Mexico lost millions of dollars in income and trade. I bet AMLO has a plan to keep that from ever happening again.

      Mexico cannot afford to lose money AND feed/support the caravans.

      • 0 avatar
        Vulpine

        @hdc: China won’t back down until the US backs down, meaning Trump. Everything China has done up to now has been in direct and proportional opposition to what Trump has done and is proving that Trump’s policies are far more harmful to the US than they are to China. It’s another game of brinksmanship that Trump will lose; just as he lost in RNK.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          Vulpine, I completely understand that, and that is perfectly fine with me because tariffs mean money coming IN to the US Treasury. And THAT is a GOOD thing.

          I don’t see it as President Trump LOSING. I see it as a rectification of a long-standing trade imbalance initiated long ago.

          You probably already know that China claims trade preconditions because of WTO determinations done many years ago. So, it would not surprise me if President Trump pulls out of the WTO as well and, instead, pursues bi-lateral trade agreements with the willing along the lines of the USMCA.

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            @hdc: You could be right about pulling out of the WTO but I believe that, too, will do more harm than good, at least at first. The WTO is meant to make international trading as equitable as possible and personally, I think they need to re-analyze global conditions to develop new determinations. Economy is a dynamic thing that WILL change as time passes. While a withdrawal might force other countries to re-negotiate individual treaties, it could also force them to simply abandon the US as a trading partner, which would ultimately hurt us worse than any trade agreement before Trump took office.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Vulpine, it is rare that upsetting the Status Quo does not result in unintended consequences.

            And international trade has been a Status Quo since the end of WWII and the inception of the Marshall Plan which was tailored to place the US at a calculated disadvantage to the other trading partners in order to help them rebuild their war-ravaged countries.

            If President Trump gets re-elected, look for greater and evermore far-reaching upsets and changes to the Status Quo in all economic aspects, to include the Climate Change and Global Warming farce.

            In the old vernacular, “You ain’t seen nuttin’ yet.”

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            “I completely understand that, and that is perfectly fine with me because tariffs mean money coming IN to the US Treasury. And THAT is a GOOD thing.”

            Tariffs are basically a consumption tax on foreign goods. The cost of tariffs are passed on to the consumer.

            That is obviously a concept most don’t understand.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            In a perfect world there would be no tariffs. But if tariffs are applied to US-made goods, the US should reciprocate and do the same at the same rate to foreign-made goods imported to the US from those countries levying the tariffs on US-made goods.

            Seems simple enough. Most people should be able to understand that.

            An eye for an eye, so to speak.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          Chinese officials don’t have to worry about an election if a big recession hits. The world is just riding out the orange turd. Eventually that turd will get flushed.

  • avatar

    China exists for thousands of years while US is just brief blip in the timeline of human history. It is not difficult to predict that China will still be there and prosper after USA goes away into dustbin of history like Roman and other Western empires did. US will be just another failed Latin American country. Chinese leaders do not care what US thinks or demands regardless if it is Trump or Ocasio-Cortez. And US car makers are shrinking into oblivion while Chinese once are expanding and taking over world eventually.

  • avatar
    JoDa

    It has been US policy to push manufacturing offshore since the 70s…Well before NAFTA. The globalists don’t want US middle working class Deplorables breeding and voting as they create a larger voting parasite class with welfare and immigration. Trump needs to get with the program. China will just wait him out.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      You are right. Leftists want those ghettos proliferate. A working man may not support this craziness. But what goes around comes around. From this something radical will come out. Something that will put physical force against this nonsense. Just look back and predict the future.

    • 0 avatar
      bd2

      The US is not much different from other countries w/ capitalist economies – the govt. beholden to big corporations and immensely wealthy individuals.

      While the gap btwn the wealthy and poor has increase in the US (as great, if not greater than what it was during the era of the “Robber Barons”). the same can be said for the UK, Germany, France, Russia, Japan, China, India, Vietnam, Brazil, Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc.

      Take South and North Korea; while they have disparate economic philosophies and governmental institutions, both countries have a huge wealth gap btwn the privileged and the common citizen (the diff. being that SK is a wealthier nation).

      Throughout history, those w/ $$ and power have made sure to bring about policies to keep it (if not increase it).

      • 0 avatar
        slavuta

        their policy only works until armed men grab them and hang upside down. See Paris snap shots of what can happen to ANY country in matter of days?

      • 0 avatar
        ToddAtlasF1

        “Take South and North Korea; while they have disparate economic philosophies and governmental institutions, both countries have a huge wealth gap btwn the privileged and the common citizen (the diff. being that SK is a wealthier nation).”

        The difference is that South Korea has less socialism than North Korea, which is why their poor are missing out of corporate jets instead of meals.

  • avatar
    DEVILLE88

    There was a time when Americans had pride in their country. We have a President that is trying to make America great again, whats funny is that all who are against him, are not native born in the US. The way this country treats and talks about it’s President is outright disgusting and disrespectfull. This country has become gynocentric and no one says anything. Our males are being feminized and no one cares. Truly our freedom has been abused. I’m not racist, but i do have a problem with people coming here living off of my tax dollars(that includes single moms and welfare queens)and living better than most who work for a living and actually are the ones bearing the brunt of it all(middle class). As Americans and guests of this once beautiful country…..Have some respect and to those who dont like it……….leave.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      The problem is, they don’t want to leave. They want to turn our beautiful America into another $h1thole. And they largely succeeded. Our children brainwashed in school. Our values – history, holidays, traditions, etc have been destroyed. America is being dismembered in front of our eyes. Trump is trying to change our faulty ways. I wish businesses that benefit from his policies can prepare next candidate who will continue this line.

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        It is with great sadness that I found the place I was born, Huntington Beach, CA, has been turned into a Barrio, not unlike the Barrios of Tijuana and Ciudad Juarez.

        I didn’t vote for Candidate Trump but I am deeply grateful for all the wonderful things he has done for Americans, even those who don’t appreciate it and would prefer to go back to the ways and means of the last administration. These truly are the best years of MY life, and many like me.

        Whenever I am in Europe, Old Mexico or Canada I am amazed at how many American citizens now choose to live outside the US, rather than inside the US. My brother left LA and moved to Ensenada, BC, Old Mexico because our childhood home in Palos Verde is now part of the new Barrio. Another brother of mine left Oakland, CA, and moved to Ensenada because his nice neighborhood is now a slum like Harlem of the old days.

        Better enjoy the Trumpian accomplishments Americans. Unless he gets re-elected, it will be back to the destructive, demeaning ways of the ‘crats after 2020.

      • 0 avatar

        And San Francisco is a prime example of 3rd world sh!thole. It was a beautiful city. Not anymore.

    • 0 avatar
      Vulpine

      “… whats funny is that all who are against him, are not native born in the US.”
      — That statement is patently false. It is a racist statement with literally no basis in fact.

    • 0 avatar
      Kek

      “Our males are being feminized and no one cares.”
      Very true, case in point – Jared / Stephen Miller and Milo.

      “all who are against him, are not native born in the US”
      Very true. If you take out the 63 million illegals or non native born votes – Hillary only got votes from Bill, Chelsea and her two dogs (again illegal votes). Also those dogs are now bitches due to being feminized.

      ” i do have a problem with people coming here living off of my tax dollars”
      I know folks on H1B whose tax obligation is higher than your salary. So theres that – but you are self made man (women or are you midway?)

      I think the main reason so many of our males are becoming females is to prep up support for abortion. Its the attack on Judeo Christian.
      Once everyone in US is a female – we will vote for Hillary. I cant imagine Trump being a women – that would be fake 72Ds at the age of 72. I need a shower.

  • avatar
    Astigmatism

    Oops: Trump reminds us that he’s “a tariff man,” the Dow plunges 600 points, and the deal appears to be off. Well, it was nice while it lasted.

    • 0 avatar
      dougjp

      Yeah, 799 points down today. A 24 hours (earlier stock market bump) tweetie bird, all he’s good for.

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-05/china-says-it-ll-implement-trade-agreements-with-the-u-s-asap?srnd=premium

        Give the Chinese time to conjure up a way to save face.

        Stock market? Check out what Bonds are doing. They’re upside down because 2-year instruments give better yield returns than 10-year instruments.

        Yes, Trump is to blame for that because the US economy is booming while the rest of the global economy is beginning to show signs of stress.

        Don’t worry about the stock market. A correction is way past due because of overzealous optimism and overspeculation on the part of of investors.

        One thing for sure, stock market went from 17K BT (Before Trump) to over 26K DT (During Trump). That’s a lot of margin to play with as long as it doesn’t go back down to the levels of the last administration.

        • 0 avatar
          Astigmatism

          Um, the inverted yield curve is a sign of a coming recession. I’m not sure what you think you’re showing there.

          As for the stock market’s “levels of the last administration,” if you’d invested $100,000 in the S&P 500 the day Trump became president, by today you’d have made $19,258. If you’d invested $100,000 in the S&P 500 the day Obama became president, by December 5, 2010 you’d have made $52,050. That is, indeed, a lot of margin to play with.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            And a recession is coming – everyone understands that. It’s staving off the coming recession that is at play here.

            As far as investments, our biggest source of income ($7K/mo) is from my wife’s US Civil Service annuity, which we converted when she turned age 70+6mos. It was based on her CRSR + FERS accounts over a 30-year career (since age 18 when she started).

            It has done better since Trump than at any time before Trump. So well infact, that she had to take “forced payouts” over and above the monthly annuity checks because the annuity had been paid in full but excess dividends kept flowing in.

            I’m not trying to show anything. Just make a statement that President Trump has been outstanding for people like me and mine, and those in similar situations. I understand that people formerly on welfare and foodstamps and now forced to break sweat and work, may not feel the same way I do.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Good to hear your wife’s annuity is doing great. Here’s a list of people who aren’t doing great:

            1) Anyone with a 401k, IRA, or any kind of investment based on stocks.
            2) People borrowing money
            3) Companies borrowing money
            4) My industry (mortgage)
            5) Housing and real estate
            6) Farmers

            That’s a pretty wide swath of losers. None of ’em are on welfare.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            FreedMike, yup, things have changed since the policies of the last guy were displaced. It looks like the shoe is on the other foot for many these days, like roles have changed.

            And I am singing the praises of being on the winning side this time instead of the whining side.

            I hope that President Trump will be able to accomplish more during 2019 although that seems highly unlikely with the agenda of the ‘crats. Maybe trade deals without tariffs will come about.

            What we had pre-Trump put the US at a disadvantage. Glad to see President Trump tackling that inequity. Decades overdue!

            But, if not, those of us in MY boat will just have to settle for what we got during the first two years of the Trumpian economy.

  • avatar
    DEVILLE88

    How is saying that people are not born here………………racist?


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