By on May 29, 2018

Jaguar E-Type, Image: Steph Willems

Teen car culture is dying a swift death, The Atlantic claims, but Jaguar Land Rover’s head of product strategy feels the youngsters of today will eventually outgrow their desire for hassle-free autonomous commute pods.

As a great Jaguar print ad in the 1990s once stated, “Live Vicariously Through Yourself.”

In Hanno Kirner’s mind, this mantra will guide more than a few Millennials to take over the driving duties and indulge their innermost desires. It had better.

Kirner made the comments during an interview with Britain’s Autocarin which he tiptoed around the possibility of a high-performance, stupidly fast SVR version of the I-Pace electric SUV.

“Yes, we can make it do 0-60 mph in 1.8sec,” he said on that topic. “It’s a good headline, but once you’ve done it once or twice, and lost your eyes in the back of their sockets, you might not want to do it again.”

To Jag’s product chief, the onset of autonomous driving will only spur the production of go-fast machines. While self-driving cars, either leased or owned or shared, will tackle the day-to-day drudgery of commuting and errands, automakers will unleash specialty human-driven automobiles to fill the enthusiast void.

“Whether it is [Jaguar’s Special Vehicles Operations] recreating classics to modern standards or creating track-day specials, I think it will grow as autonomous driving becomes a regular part of lives,” he said. “I don’t for one second think we’ll see a generation appear with no interest in cars. Driving enthusiasts will still exist and we’ll want to engineer cars for them.”

This jibes with Porsche’s recent promise to manufacture vehicles with steering wheels for as long as it’s legal. To a lesser degree, Rolls-Royce recently claimed it won’t abandon V12 engines until the government forces its hand.

With age comes a growing desire to use one’s earnings to cut loose and have a little frivolous fun, Kirner implies. There’s also the go-anywhere/do-anything element.

“Today, we have more demand than we can satisfy for such cars and I don’t expect that to change,” he said. “Yes, there is a generation that is more interested in their phones than anything else today, but they will grow older and want to drive one day.”

[Image: Steph Willems/TTAC]

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55 Comments on “‘They Will Grow Older’: Jaguar’s Product Boss Is Damn Sure Millennials Will Eventually Choose Self-Indulgence...”


  • avatar
    jmo2

    Sure, we’ll always have Morgan.

    IIRC they sell about 400k powerboats a year vs 14 million cars. I figure 400k is optimistic for the track day specials discussed above.

    Although, now that I think about it, a move toward presumably cheaper autonomous/shared vehicles might mean folks spend more money on toys like boats.

  • avatar
    bluegoose

    Money is a big part of it. The other issue is that computers and technology have allowed people to meet virtually through skype and face time. The big issue when I was growing up was cost of insurance. Today, you have the cost of a cell phone plan to worry about. Asking a teenager to chose between a cell phone and a car is like asking them to chose between a social life and an appliance. The overall cost of living is also much higher.

    Teenagers still want cars..when they can afford them. The combination of advanced safety regs and “economy of scale” manufacturing practices results in cars that are very expensive. When is the last time you saw a car with crank windows? I see used cars that have 100K on them that are 10 years old and selling for over 10K.

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      My 2013 Frontier had crank windows. And there are plenty of cars perfectly suited for a teenager in the 2 grand range. I have been helping my oldest shop. A 3800 powered Buick is likely in his future which is way nicer than the malaise era crapboxes we all had when I was his age.

      • 0 avatar
        bluegoose

        I drove my late Grandfather’s 1972 Plymouth Satellite Custom four door. It was pee yellow with a black vinyl top. My Dad and I banged out the dents and painted it bright red. We stuck Cooper Cobra raised white letter tires on it. I still miss that car!

        It did cost money to keep the thing running though..and that money is not as plentiful as it once was in middle class households.

      • 0 avatar
        Yaemish

        Mr. Vandelay, perhaps you should be looking at a slightly used LeBaron instead of the Buick.

      • 0 avatar
        JimBot

        Huge yes to this – those are great cars and reasonably fast! My first car was a ’79 Cutlass with a gutless 260 V8 and 2 bbl carb that always gave me fits. It was an OK car but so much lesser than a car like you’re describing.

    • 0 avatar
      IBx1

      I bought my iPhone SE for about $250 and I pay about $50/mo for service. Luckily I’m not one of the people who feel the need to get a new phone every 6 months (more like a 3-year cycle for me) but our cheap used cars from the ’90s are from a period of peak durability and serviceability. You can confidently buy a $3-6,000 car and put in very little preventative maintenance to go as long as you can stand to drive the same car.

      Anyone who doesn’t know how to work on their own stuff is subject to the inflated prices of crappy, newer used cars from the late ’00s as you mentioned in your second paragraph.

    • 0 avatar
      JuniperBug

      To anyone parroting that cars have gotten so expensive, run the prices of 1980s and 1990s cars through an inflation calculator and compare to today’s prices. What you’ll find is that today’s cars are cheaper while offering much better safety, performance, reliability, and durability. Yes, crank windows are gone and you get stability control and Bluetooth in cars that cost less than 80s rattle cans did.

      Seriously, try it if you don’t believe me.

      • 0 avatar
        JuniperBug

        On a personal note, I’m still enjoying my ‘99 Miata which I paid CAD 9,000 for 7 years ago, and I’ve been waiting nearly 3 years for my 155k mile $1,000 Concorde to die. I’ve put a total of $100 into it in that time.

      • 0 avatar
        IBx1

        It’s absolutely true for sure, but wages haven’t followed inflation and major costs such as vehicle-, home-, and health insurance have rocketed past it.

      • 0 avatar
        Malforus

        The bigger issue for millenials is either lack of need of a car, this is due to the new urban migration.
        Or lack of any spending money since the teenage and later job market got really soft when the traditional “summer job” was vacuumed up by people hungry for any job.

        Its a case of the top 10-15% doing exceptional the next tier down struggling and the lower 50% dying on the vine.

        • 0 avatar
          geee

          We really need to dispense with the urban migration thing. It’s a minor part of the equation. It’s another bias issue, with the news stories about certain millennials and their preference for cities. The preference is actually away from larger urban areas, and toward smaller ones, mostly because home prices there are potentially reasonable, where as in SF, LA, NY, etc, its ruinously expensive except for the top 1% of young people and even rents are absurd. But in general, the trend is away overall. There was a delay of marriage and family formation during the financial crisis, recession and afterwards, which slowed the typical urban to suburban transition, but this has begun to play out. See : http://www.newgeography.com/content/005981-pervasive-suburbanization-the-2017-data

  • avatar

    Cars last longer…and are more expensive. The motor pool for kids in my area tends to be the 10-15 year old car that still runs but isn’t really up to the daily slog to work. They get a hand me down, not save their pennies and save the dimes for a brand new 409.

    Kids know the STi the NSX, and the ///M, while they drive a 90’s Accord or a Buick or Camry inherited from grandparents. Student Loans are the major object of worry, not a car.

  • avatar
    Arthur Dailey

    So the British auto manufacturing facilities (can’t say manufacturers as they are no longer British owned) will once again dominate a viable market?

  • avatar
    arach

    These authors seem to know different teens and millennials than I do.

    I was out in our Ferrari one night coming back super late from a dinner party, after my bed time at like 11:30 PM, when we passed a group of teens having a “cruise in” in a parking lot. Remembering cruise ins when i was that age, I decided to pop in.

    Most of them have never seen a ferrari in the flesh so they were coocoo for cocopuffs around the car. It was somewhat amusing.

    there were a couple hundred of them that meet every Thursday at 11. Conveniently, in Highschool we met on thursdays at 10. Today I’m in bed by 11 because I’m old and thats what old people do.

    I loved talking to them. Sure they had wranglers and chevy malibus… the best of the best had a mustang or camaro, but they were die hards. They were still making up the same stupid stories too “that guys got about 500 horsepower because he has a cold air intake and NOS” . Brought me back to my childhood.

    Anyway, it made me remember growing up.

    Car culture hasn’t DIED. its evolved, but only a little bit. We complain about STANCE culture, but then forget that 15 years ago it was simply the RICER culture, and 15 years before that it was the Muscle car era.

    I don’t think enthusiasm has waned much if any. The youth makes up a huge component of our local cars and coffee events, and these events are way bigger than anything I knew growing up. (Despite the fact that its 8 am… seriously what team can get up at 7-8 am to go to a car show?? They meet at 10-11 PM!)

    They are driving wranglers and civics because thats what they can afford, just like we were. But lets face it, while we thought our 68 horsepower geo metro was a POS ready to be upgraded to a mad car, these guys are driving 250 horsepower Hyundais. instead of trying to tune a carburetor, they are hooking up Bimmers to computers and reprogramming them by hand.

    Today’s youth are still buying sporty cars- maybe not sporty by our regards, but they are buying Sonatas and similar and tuning them, replacing the wheels on them, and they are excited. I’m part of the Sonata Society and there’s a TON of enthusiasm from younger people about those cars… those are just cars that older individuals don’t recognize as tunable or enthusiast vehicles.

    And who needs a weekend sports car when your DD sports 300 HP?

    remember turning off the A/C to get up a big hill?

    Yes the world has changed, and enthusiasm is different… but there’s a heck of a teen car culture. yes some teens want autonomous pods. good for them. In the 70s, how many teens thought cars were evil and insisted they’d ride a bike forever?

    I also believe there will be a huge influx in demand for ultra-specialized performance cars. Yes volume will decline eventually, but how many ultra-specialized performance cars are actually sold right now. 4 cylinder mustang? yeah right. Might as well drive a mustang pod.

    Design will always matter, and performance has its niche like it always did. There will continue to be enthusiasts, and there will continue to be people who view driving as a chore.

    If anything, I’m surprised how LITTLE it has changed. Kids don’t know what rotary phone is if they see one, but you can bet they turn their head when a ferrari drives by.

    • 0 avatar
      MoparRocker74

      If you hang out in book stores, at farmers markets, and feminist rallys, then the results you get wont be any huge surprise. Idiots who write the ‘car culture is dying’ crap only want to live in an echo chamber where their own biases are reinforced. I think we’ve seen this before…pretty much ANY political polling, for example.

    • 0 avatar
      MoparRocker74

      If you hang out in book stores, at farmers markets, and feminist rallys, then the results you get wont be any huge surprise. Idiots who write the ‘car culture is dying’ crap only want to live in an echo chamber where their own biases are reinforced. I think we’ve seen this before…pretty much ANY political polling, for example.

    • 0 avatar
      jack4x

      Good post.

      I’ve noticed much the same at car shows I attend. The old guys have the frame up restored classics, but there are always a bunch of Mustangs, WRX, VWs, etc driven by a younger crowd. Not necessarily expensive to buy but you can tell they are loved. It’s always younger people who come up to talk to me about my cars too, never geezers.

      This idea that Millennials are more interested in phones and avacado toast than cars is based on a tiny subset of urban dwellers that is hardly representative of the diverse country we actually live in.

      • 0 avatar
        Arthur Dailey

        Confirmation bias. If you spent time hanging out at Cosplay conventions you would be convinced that those participating made up a significant portion of society.

        Just a couple among many studies:
        https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0967070X16305571

        http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/demographic-shifts-shaping-future-car-ownership/

      • 0 avatar
        arach

        I agree.

        How about “Studies discover people who live in dense urban centers less likely to own cars than people in rural areas”.

        Real confrontational?

        • 0 avatar
          Arthur Dailey

          A study on rural v urban America.
          Urban population tends to be younger, better educated, have a higher median income and less likely to be married.

          https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-12-08/in-americas-rural-urban-divide-age-earnings-and-education-are-prominent

          There is a trend among economists/sociologists/etc to predict that the major urban centres will become more important than the nation that they are located in, regarding economics. Much like the City States of the Renaissance. And the largest urban centres will benefit the most.

          With the trend towards higher insurance rates, higher vehicle purchase costs, urban density increases, lack of parking, vehicle ownership will become increasingly costly. Urban North American cities will, for those that have not already done so, become more like other ‘world cities’ with much more pedestrians and subway/rapid transit users.

          The days of ‘cruising the main drag’ are long gone in most urban centres.

          Car culture rather than being a significant unifying aspect of the national psyche will become just another, of many, specialized cultural groups.

          • 0 avatar

            City States? They cannot sustain themselves. If there is a conflict they will be denied food and energy. City State is the thing of the past though. What is modern is that big cities have allegiance not to the Nation but to the Global Elite. Elite became a global post-national entity that controls big cities and mass media and does not care about national interests. Bad news is that the rest of population does not share global values Elite cherishes so much.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I argue certain metros have effectively become city-states all their own within the nation.

          • 0 avatar
            arach

            That already happened in NY.

            I had to move from upstate NY because NYC dominates the state!

            Stats can be misleading. For example, I was reading a study about how millenials leave urban centers when they get married and start a family.

            But in general I don’t have a whole lot to disagree with in the urban centers. I consider city people a different “culture” already, and don’t consider them “like me”. I never considered them part of car culture to begin with. Clearly I could be and probably am wrong… but… its all about perspective. I guess that makes it difficult to discuss a nation such as the united States because they are very very distinct cultural groups.

            And while I agree with your sentiment about urban centers, I can’t help but think “Who cares about urban centers”. The percentage of car owners may decline, or car enthusiasts… but that doesn’t mean the COUNT will decline.

            I don’t see car culture dying with “suburban” or “rural” people. However, i don’t feel the culture was ever strong with urbanites. Therefore the fact that populations in urban centers is growing, will shift the us population as a percentage, but doesn’t necessarily impact the number of people engaged in the culture.

            I avoid cities at all costs. I spent some time in NYC and it was the worst time of my life.. I gave up trying to make sense of city-people.

      • 0 avatar
        Bill Wade

        The last car show I was at a kid found the old Checker Marathon his deceased dad drove as a cabby in New York. He was 19 years old and had been working on it since he was 15. It truly was the finest restoration of a vehicle I’ve ever seen in my life. Sadly, his car was at the end of a back row and almost nobody even glanced at it. I gave him $100 and a serious pat on the back.

        It’s like the kids and their Civics on the drag strip. My friends laugh at them until I point out our SS396’s and such ran 13’s, they’re running 12’s with a small 4 banger. Don’t tell me they don’t know what they’re doing. It may not be as large of a car culture now but they’re as dedicated as any of us were.

    • 0 avatar
      Arthur Dailey

      ‘Sonata Society’? Now you have my attention. How many 3 pedal Sonatas are in your group? And what generation Sonatas do they ‘tune’?

      • 0 avatar
        arach

        @Arthur Dailey –

        There are thousands of members of the “Sonata Society”. I don’t want to knock them- I have a handful of cars and I bought a Sonata as a DD, because you know, its a practical, cheap car with a good warranty. I joined the Sonata Society simply to have people weigh in on issues that may come up or whatnot.

        What I was NOT expecting was for it to be a huge group of modifiers and enthusiasts. My thought was “Its a Sonata”, but these guys and gals are like “ITS A SONATA!!!”. They tune the engine, put on exhaust systems, debate intakes, some of the guys even race them. You’d think your part of a corvette or camaro group until you realize they are all driving sonatas. There’s a couple of specialty sonata tuner companies, and more mods than you can shake your fist at.

        Again, my old-guyness says “but its a sonata”, but thats the nature of this beast and come to think of it, the tuner/ricer culture was similar. These are the cars they get into, and their enthusiasm drives them to make the best of it.

        I personally don’t tune or mod my sonata… unless you count adding remote start or window tint… but the culture is there.

        Most of them are YFs, although I have an LF. I’m guessing again because if your an enthusiast with LF money, you don’t buy a sonata.

        But if you have a sonata, check them out on facebook.

    • 0 avatar
      scott25

      Great post. Also at car shows up here, it’s the same, old guys with their meticulous restorations, young people with the cars that actually seem loved and used. And their tastes are reflected by what they can afford (IE cars that haven’t had their prices inflated by boomer nostalgia), Fox Mustangs, the classic Japanese, obscure European cars from the 70s-90s. I can’t wait till the old men die and all of the 50s and 60s cars that aren’t the elite million dollar auction darlings will become basically worthless, so us millennials can snap them up. Mostly by women, since females I know almost universally swoon over pastel coloured 50’s land yachts and wood panelled wagon, neither of which any of them can afford.

  • avatar
    shedkept

    They’re already buying cassette decks, reel to reel tape machines, old McIntosh and ANY old 60’70’s Fisher, Sansui, Marantz, Pioneer and high end speakers.

    • 0 avatar
      Art Vandelay

      Yeah, I used to could pick that stuff up for next to nothing but now its crazy. My dad is sitting on a Pioneer SX-1980 he purchased new and if things keep on going he’ll be able to live in his old age off of that thing. Crazy. I do like me some vintage Pioneer though.

    • 0 avatar
      Tele Vision

      I have a bunch of gack from an old recording studio. All analogue. Crazy to think my ancient Fostex might actually be worth something. We went digital a long time ago but I still miss that warm tape smell that would permeate the room after a good session. All my live gear seems to be from 1982, too, weirdly. MIJ Telecaster; Fender 75 half stack; JBL wedge ( 15″X2″ )…

  • avatar
    MoparRocker74

    “Teen car culture is dying a swift death”

    Who writes this brain dead dreck?!?!?! Look around on a Friday or Saturday night, car meets are everywhere. And most of the ones I attend have people in literally every age range. Even here in the PDX area, which is heavy on the safe space/participation trophy set, car culture is HUGE. Just because soft handed, timid car adverse types are having an uptick doesn’t mean car culture is dying a swift death. That’s lunacy.

  • avatar
    ajla

    I’m very interested in cars.

    However, I’m very *not* interested in owning a Dodge Caliber shaped woodless Jaguar.

  • avatar
    IBx1

    Millennial here, ’91. I could lease *and* insure an S560 for what I pay in student loans, though I’m on an aggressive plan I set for myself to get rid of those in under 4 years. That’s a Master’s degree with state schools, no more than $27k/year total cost of attendance, which is about as cheap as you can buy a credible degree for the boomers out there who went to school for thirty-five bucks.

    After that’s gone, I’ll be getting something and it’ll have a stick and be otherwise interesting. No stick, no sale, and the only 2.0T I’d have is an 8th gen or earlier Civic Si that I boost myself.

    • 0 avatar
      cimarron typeR

      As a GenXer who DIYed his grad school education, I feel for you. But then I realized my dad was 30 by the time he got his undergrad degree going to school part time , working full time in a candle factory in Brooklyn, in so much I was gratified to be able to receive student loans as compared to working my way through.
      Your manual transmission something will be that much more gratifying when you finally get to own it. But I would keep your current daily if you decide to heavily modify your reward car.Don’t ask me how I know…

    • 0 avatar
      chuckrs

      First, congratulations on getting free of the student debt expeditiously. As a boomer, ’50, I’ve been appalled at how school fees went up 8% (or more) year in and year out. In college, I worked summers and holidays as a roofer and covered about 75-80% of my expenses. At today’s pay rates, I’d be lucky to cover even half that. Costs then looked like an economy Chevy per year. Same school today, costs still look like a Chevy or equivalent per year, but base Vette or nicely optioned Suburban Chevy. I profited from my education (STEM and business owner), but with today’s debt load, I might not have taken the chances today I did then.
      For those still in the belly of the educational beast, here’s a link you should take to heart:

      https://www.forbes.com/sites/billconerly/2012/08/21/how-to-make-a-college-graduate-employable/#3b45c7c117e0

      Written by a liberal arts educator.

    • 0 avatar
      IBx1

      I definitely don’t take for granted that I was smart enough to make the cut for mechanical engineering, as STEM is the only way you can guarantee a return on your investment. As rigorous as my work was, I wouldn’t be able to stretch myself further to have a part-time position as well and respect people who can manage that juggle.

      I don’t complain genuinely about the loans, just wanting to point out that they’re the reason why most of us don’t have spending power yet. My current car is a ’13 Abarth Cabrio, preceded by an ’00 7.3 F-250 6-speed and an ’02 Si. The Si was my baby, the Ford was a lot of fun, and Abarth is an awesome daily driver, but the lunatic car comes next alongside it.

    • 0 avatar

      Went to a name brand U in Boston (not H), and room and board were jusssst under 10k. (late 80’s.)
      Kid applies and gets accepted to same U. $60k/yr.

      Didn’t go there, but inflation wasn’t 6x over the last 30 years, either….. $240k for a degree that doesn’t start “Dr” or end in Esq, CPA or MBA. Yowza.

      We did State School with scholarship (kid’s smarter than dad) and still ended up costing more, adjusted for inflation, that name brand U back in the day….

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      @IBx1

      Why did you go to graduate school?

      • 0 avatar
        IBx1

        @28 Cars

        To make more money! Anyone can pull a B.S. degree but the M.S. shows you’re willing to go the extra step without pigeonholing yourself into a small handful of career positions with a Ph.D.

    • 0 avatar
      CarnotCycle

      “After that’s gone, I’ll be getting something and it’ll have a stick and be otherwise interesting. No stick, no sale, and the only 2.0T I’d have is an 8th gen or earlier Civic Si that I boost myself.”

      Sounds like maybe V10 M5 with a six-speed? With a *little* wrenching and hackery with INSA they’re tanks…and its a family sedan with engine that is, performance and character-wise, basically two-and-a-half Civic Si 2.0L K20A motors rolled into one.

      • 0 avatar
        IBx1

        @CarnotCycle

        I’m thinking an FD a little more than a MKIV Supra, but I’ve always wanted a manual V10 M6 ‘vert. Once I get my house with my extended-height garage and a 4-post lift, I can handle engine-out services on anything myself.

    • 0 avatar
      geee

      This same experience occurred for many of us older GenX types, and if we had been dumped into as challenging an economic scenario as the ones Millennials are being dumped in, there would have been a higher share that avoided cars. Education and housing costs compared to income now are the two primary challenges, plus, you have to buy health “insurance”. Operating costs are probably worse too, though I haven’t done the math. I do recall insurance costs rising faster than overall inflation for quite some time however, so that probably takes a bite. And we didn’t have a $100/mo mandatory cell phone bill

      I had nearly $100k in education loans from college, and two grad schools, and also payed it off aggressively. During that time I lived in a city, and could get by without a car. When I finally got a ride 8 years into my car-less days, it was a used Ducati, but the car didn’t come until almost 5 years after that. And yes, I indulged in exactly what I wanted at that point. In the non-car years, I ogled and envied more cars than I care to remember. There is also the cost of raising children, which is becoming absurd. And since about 80%+ of people that marry have children, there are a lot of people looking at a future that they cant even fathom in terms of affordability.

      Another thing is, a lot of the Millennials don’t buy car dreck comes from the US automakers, who want to believe this more because Millennials don’t buy a lot of their cars. Why? Well, multiple reasons, but style points plays a big part, and there are some brands that must die that refuse to. The other issue is that nowadays, used cars are a better alternative, and more sensible, if you are looking to be economical with your transport dollars.

      The funny thing is, when you look at the numbers of car purchase per capita for Millennials, despite the larger share of them not licensing, and doing ride hailing and the like, they aren’t really that different from Gen X. Its really Boomers that set the tone of high levels of car buying, and its also Boomers that had it relatively easy economically.

      I don’t see much evidence that younger people don’t desire cars, but in the end, given the economic reality and the possibility of alternatives, just as it was for me in the early 90s, you can choose for a while to go without.

      That said, if I had mobility on demand, would I still purchase a car? damn, right. But it would effectively be an even less economical decision, as it would be purely a luxury item at that point. Which points to reduced overall demand.

      • 0 avatar
        IBx1

        @geee,

        Our slightly older friends who are raising kids gave us some insight; the cheapest reputable daycare services will run at least $1,500/mo, which is about what I’m scraping together to pay off my school loans, and more than my rent in Houston. That aforementioned invisible S560 I’m paying for would be easier to manage.

        I do plan on raising a family, but industry wages are still stagnant from 2005 or so and not doing me any favors. It’ll take a few promotions and relentless use of the fever-pitch work ethic I have just to be where my parents were when I was growing up but that’s not a deterrent for me.

  • avatar
    Mandalorian

    I think the “Car” part of car culture is dying, and being taken over by SUV/Truck culture. Around here, a large chunk teenage boys get their dad’s late model hand-me-down trucks or entirely new ones. Girls get mom’s Tahoe. 4Runners and all things Jeep are immensely popular.

    I think you gave the average teen in my area the choice between a brand new Yukon Denali and a 5-Series, it would be a sad day for Bavaria.

    My theory is that with social media, smartphones, etc, being connected is now a constant. Vehicles now represent the next step- the appearance of having ability to go off the beaten path and be adventurous.

  • avatar
    "scarey"

    The truck/SUV culture is a subset of the car culture. There will always be cars. You heard it here first.

  • avatar
    Freddie

    Yesterday I had this conversation with my middle aged neighbor…
    His wife’s eyes rolled when he mentioned his plans to buy a used Porsche (“Porsh-UH”). I basically asked him: Do you want the thrill of driving a high performance car or are you just into the image? If it’s really the driving you want, then for the price of a few years of maintenance, repairs and insurance on the Porsche you could pick up a brand new Focus ST (or Golf GTI, or Civic Si) with 99% of the driving entertainment you could ever want in a practical sedan or hatchback that will please your wife.

    • 0 avatar
      Reino

      Nothing against hot hatches, but there is absolutely no comparing the driving experience of those cars to a Porsche 911!

      (From a ‘millenial’)

    • 0 avatar
      CarnotCycle

      I would have to disagree on used Porsche vis-a-vis new GTI/ST driving equivalence – both the Ford and VW excellent utility machines for people who like cars and need a useful car.

      A Porsche though, is pure toy from day one. A toy that sounds way better, a trickier, more interesting thing to play around with. Not as easy, or even as textbook-perfect, but the Porsche will be more fun – toys are supposed to be fun, not perfect.

      And beyond driving it, if owning the car in and of itself is part of the hobby Porsche hands-down for maintenance-fussing, customizing, and tinkering. Ability to choose transmission with used Porsche is a driver-centric bonus as well. This is all assuming various 911’s being the ‘used Porsches.’

      Boxsters a lot more meh but way cheaper, too (and relative Camrys in the segment after IMS bearing fixed). Decent Caymans way too expensive…I don’t understand the appeal. Those sedans and SUV’s don’t even count.

      • 0 avatar
        Mandalorian

        Not to mention a 911 is a lot more pleasant place to spend time in. Yes, hot hatches are fast, but they’re fast economy cars, sharing a lot with their sub $20,000 kin.

      • 0 avatar
        chuckrs

        As an owner of a Cayman with the IMS, I can tell you it is a pleasure to drive. Steering is little short of telepathic. By the time the Cayman was first introduced, Porsche was on its third IMS bearing and that has apparently worked. My old 911/964 had a page in the owners manual devoted to not lugging the engine. It is more critical with IMS engines as the IMS is in part splash lubricated. You want a low RPM torque monster, get a domestic V8 or a diesel.
        And don’t be fooled by a relatively low price. You could have mine @ 11 years and 52K miles for little more than the price of new 4 cyl Camry. Following recommended maintenance, you’d be looking at replacing the spark plugs (preventive maintenance to avoid seizing in that expensive block) which will probably lead to replacing the coil packs. I also suspect that a water pump replacement is in the offing but no detectable leaks yet. It could use a good alignment and corner balancing. See what I did there? I just spent $1K-$2K, maybe more. A set of Michelins, mounted, another $1.25K last time. Plenty of tread left but they sure are getting noisy.
        Fortunately, the market has made sure you won’t be buying a moderately priced 964 or 993 911. Now them sumbitches are expensive to maintain…

  • avatar
    Tele Vision

    That IS how ‘Porsche’ is pronounced.

    In Alberta there is a huge truck culture. Weekday meets are weekly nearly everywhere and weekend meets are ubiquitous. I joined an F-150 group for parts and am amazed at the dedication of these girls and guys. Hundreds of trucks will show up at a coffee shop on a Wednesday, for instance. Pretty cool. That just didn’t happen when I started driving in 1986. Had there been a ‘Ratty Station Wagon Club’ back then I would certainly have joined it – if only for leads on a new gas tank and windshield.

  • avatar
    CarnotCycle

    Teen auto-licensing and car ownership tracks a different declining trend, and that’s teens who have a job. Either daddy buys kid a car – and “those” kids still have cars and drive – or kid buys kid a car.

    Amassing a grand or two to go buy a car cash-money requires a job; and for me that meant stints at Taco Bell, mowing lawns, etc. Kids don’t do that work anymore. Latin immigrants do those jobs (they have cars…and licenses in various jurisdictions lol).

    I bet these facts of immobility and idleness segues pretty well into the burgeoning 30-still-living-with-mom demographic.

  • avatar
    Sub-600

    I love going to the Syracuse Nationals car show at the NYS fairgrounds every summer, the draw for most is to check out the cars from their youth. The styles are extremely varied and then, of course, there’s the allure of the raw power. I cannot envision people queuing up in 20-25 years to look at Elantras, Cruzes, Fusions, Passats, and Civics. Cars were “social networking” technology in the “old days” with hardwired phones providing little privacy and no internet. I think this is why kids aren’t as interested in cars as they used to be.

    • 0 avatar
      scott25

      If you’re listing the utilitarian cars of today, how many 6 cylinder Valiants, Falcons, basic stripper trucks and vans, etc are at those car shows? A small percentage, same as those modern cars will be at future car shows. Apples and oranges, comparing them to the muscle and pony cars and V8 coupes and sedans that populate most car shows

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