By on January 16, 2018

2019 Ram 1500

It’s Tuesday at the North American International Auto Show, and already the big, splashy reveals are fading into the past. The Cobo Center’s parking garage has switched back to monthly pass holders, workers have swept up the errant shrimp tails from the media room, and buzzwords have stopped echoing through the streets of Detroit.

We’ve introduced you to a bevy of new vehicles over the past few days. Now that you’ve had time to process what you’ve seen, it’s time to focus on what you feel. Tell us — is there anger welling up inside you?

Despite the show’s theme, “innovative synergistic future mobility” or some such thing, NAIAS 2018 was all about trucks. A new Ram 1500, next-generation Chevrolet Silverado, and reborn Ford Ranger all graced the various stages at Cobo, ready to tempt hard-working Americans with enormous grilles and accommodating beds. And yet, despite this, automakers seem more intent on selling us not cars or trucks, but a car-less future. Well, a future with cars you don’t need to own or drive.

Doesn’t that sound nice? Jim Hackett’s speech on Sunday ruffled more than a few feathers among the TTAC crew, as his company’s city of the future seems pretty low on human autonomy and tire-shredding performance. Does the heavy focus on autonomous driving leave you upset? Are some automakers in danger of losing the plot and alienating loyalists as they barrel down the road to self-driving utopia?

Maybe, and we expect more than a few of you might feel this way, the last thing you want to even think about is “mobility” and autonomous driving and other things that seem determined to ruin your way of life. You want to criticize design. You’re potentially still steamed over the Ram redesign. You’re possibly still perturbed over the Ford Ranger’s four-cylinder engine. Or maybe you just hate the Avalon’s grille and wonder why Toyota still sells the thing.

Let it all out. Share all of your NAIAS frustrations in the comfy couch that is the comments section.

[Image: Bozi Tatarevic/TTAC]

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66 Comments on “QOTD: Feeling Any Anger From NAIAS?...”


  • avatar
    Sub-600

    No anger here. Some resignation to the fact that the future of driving is screwed with a capital “F”, but no anger. Crossovers, electric ones and then driverless electric ones, are the future. Pickups will follow suit to an extent. I do believe, as some others have indicated, that we may have reached “peak grille”, outside of some sort or Venetian blind thing going over the windshield, I don’t see them getting bigger.

    • 0 avatar
      ClutchCarGo

      No anger here either, because I’m old enough that true autonomous driving will probably get here just about in time for my incapacitated elderly self to need such a thing. In the meantime, human operated vehicles won’t go away for a minimum of 20 years no matter how soon AVs hit the market. AVs won’t be fully operational outside of well mapped and marked urban areas until long after I’m gone. I also expect that people will gradually lose interest in driving as well, in much the same way that horsemanship became passé with the introduction of motorized vehicles. As much as we motoring enthusiasts regret that trend, technology marches on. Something will replace driving skills just as driving skills replaced horsemanship.

      • 0 avatar
        Sub-600

        I hear ya, I figure I’ve got 15 or 20 years left, tops, where I’ll even care about driving anymore. It’ll take that long for things to get really screwed up.

        • 0 avatar
          Middle-Aged Miata Man

          If it’s any consolation, there’s a decent chance this country as we know it will be gone within those 15-20 years before the act of driving disappears.

          Hey, I’m only trying to help!

      • 0 avatar
        Dilrod

        I agree. In another 20 years, along with driving, good old fashioned rolling around under the car in a puddle of grease will just be a niche hobby.

        Teenagers today don’t have the same fun we had trying to “soup up” some old wreck, and the generation after that will have even less to experience.

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    I’m not mad, Son. Just disappointed.

    Disappointed that the Sierra wasn’t revealed with the Chevy.

    Disappointed that the Ranger has one engine option.

    Disappointed that Toyota didn’t go full brougham on the Avalon and give it hidden headlights and make the front end nothing but grille.

  • avatar
    bunkie

    Frankly, the city-dwelling part of me would love to see the end of personally-owned cars (in the broad sense including SUVs, pickups, etc.) as a means of local transport. There is far too much of the so-called “tragedy of the commons” resulting from city use of personal vehicles. Such use brings out the worst in people and, frankly, self-driving vehicles in urban environments can’t come soon enough.

    At the same time, the country-dwelling part of me recognizes that there is no foreseeable, practical alternative to personal, human-driven vehicles as a means of transport. My Tacoma lives in the country and our car lives in a very expensive garage in the city. Its sole function is to transport us to the country and back.

    So, for me, no anger. If there was a practical way to get back and forth without owning a car, I would jump at it. In the city, the buses and subways (and the occasional car service) are just fine.

    Finally, my Taco has a four in it and it is plenty of engine for my use.

    • 0 avatar
      arach

      Cars are my life. I used to drive around without a seat belt under the mantra “If my car goes, I go”.

      Fortunately I matured to the point where i realized I could replace the car…

      But if we get to a point where personally-owned cars are dead, you might as well kill me. That sounds like the most depressing future I could ever imagine. I pray we never see that in my lifetime, and if we do, I hope we have race tracks around every corner and an incredibly lively race scene!

      • 0 avatar
        sportyaccordy

        You should probably find more to live for. Cars are cool but there’s definitely more in life to enjoy. Putting all your eggs in one basket WRT fulfillment is pretty lazy.

        As for ownership, why can’t it be both? There are city folks who enjoy owning cars, and there are plenty of rural folks (elderly, DUIers, credit slaves) who either need to or would greatly benefit from decoupling transportation with ownership. Autonomous tech would enable that. Sure it would be a little less convenient, but way less of a headache than all the issues the groups I mentioned face.

        As for me, I like having a car but if autonomous cars enable me to ditch it I would. There are plenty of other ways to enjoy motoring.

        • 0 avatar
          arach

          Not always lazy, but certainly risky. Heck I’ve even spoken at the NAIAS, as my entire career is the auto industry. My hobbies involve car shows and rebuilding cars as well as racing in the SCCA. Even my wife is a race car driver and my kids are all named after cars. There really isn’t anything in our lives not car related! haha.

          I might have exaggerated a tiny bit. I really did in my late teens drive around without a seat belt because my car was the only thing that made life OK, but thats more due to the circumstances. Today I don’t think I’d actually want to die, but I really would lose all my hobbies, interests, etc.

      • 0 avatar
        bunkie

        There are alternatives.

        In my case, I’m a licensed pilot and a motorcyclist, both of which are purely recreational pursuits. .

        I learned a long time ago not to turn a avocation into a vocation because it will affect your enthusiasm when you *have* to do it. Driving, in all too many cases these days, is a chore.

        • 0 avatar
          sportyaccordy

          Ha, my thoughts exactly. To add, driving conditions for most Americans are generally so awful you cannot blame them for wanting autonomous cars. I don’t care how much you love driving… there’s nothing enjoyable about hours of bumper to bumper traffic. Nor is there anything enjoyable about interfacing with the poorly trained and undisciplined average American driver.

          If people want to save human driving we have to address the conditions that have people pining for autonomous cars in the first place. I’d bet the excitement for autonomous cars isn’t as high somewhere like Germany. They still have conditions that enable retaining a passion for driving.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      I am a city dweller and a car enthusiast.

      It’s absolutely right that cars cause all sorts of problems in a city environment. Most of this is because they’re big and clumsy and cities are space-constrained. Parking is expensive to build and the space could be used for housing or retail. Drivers are psychologically not well suited to deal with slow progress and congestion, and tend to get impatient exactly where it threatens others the most. Cars can’t turn tightly or fit through small openings. The places in cities where people want to be are the places where cars are not. In an urban setting, there is not enough room for everyone to use individual cars for transport.

      But none of that means cars are evil. They just have to be treated correctly in the city, as a luxury that imposes considerable costs. I expect to have to pay for the space I use for parking, either directly or through increased costs of housing that has parking included. I don’t expect to average 30 mph in my car through dense parts of the city. And I expect, when in my car and in the city, to have to yield to other modes of transportation that use space more efficiently, like feet, bikes, and buses.

      And, just like bunkie, I find my car quickly becomes indispensable when I leave the city. If I weren’t affluent enough to keep cars full-time in the city, I would need to rent them when I leave it. There are over 100 million people in rural and exurban America, and they will need something resembling traditional cars for a very, very long time. The cars may be electric (especially with faster charging) and/or automated, but the places they’ll carry people will look like they do today.

      If you are so attached to cars that they are the most important thing to you (and I’m not judging! everybody loves something different), then the prudent thing to do is to move to the exurbs.

    • 0 avatar
      DAC17

      Yup; it will be another way to separate the country into two distinct segments (like we don’t have enough of that already!). The city-dwellers, who couldn’t care less about cars, will get their “mobility” boredom, and the rest of the country will still have personally-driven transportation, maybe more trucks and CUV’s. Gee, seems a lot like red and blue states today, doesn’t it???

  • avatar
    arach

    I was 100% happy with this year’s NAIAS.

    Some great reveals

    Some good information

    Clearly the show is still relevant

    Built some excitement around some of the brands.

    Not sure what would cause anger. Its a car show.

    The minor frustration though is that you know, the Toyota Avalon doesn’t have 600 HP, a manual transmission, and a $14k price tag, but I can’t say I was quite expecting that.

  • avatar

    I haz a sad the Ranger is just the Euro one, and what that means for the Bronco.
    Also sad the Avalon so ugly and “sporting.”
    Ford seems intent on killing the car.

    On the other hand, that Ram metallic graphite paint looks nice, so there’s that.

    • 0 avatar
      JohnTaurus

      What does it mean for the Bronco? Ford has made it clear that the Bronco won’t be an Everest clone.

      We already knew the Ranger we would get would be a revised T6, no surprise there except 2.3L only drivetrain (which I think will give way to a 5 cylinder diesel option and a 2.7L EcoBoost in future versions).

      I’d like to see the Everest here, but only as the next Explorer. Bronco will be a unique product based on the Ranger frame, not an Everest rebadged.

      • 0 avatar

        ” Bronco will be a unique product based on the Ranger frame, not an Everest rebadged.”

        I do not believe either part of this statement will be true.

        • 0 avatar
          JohnTaurus

          So it will be a rebadged Everest? I’ll remember that when it comes out.

          Remember the Troller down in Brazil is based on the T6 frame, and it is not an Everest. I believe the Bronco will fall somewhere in between those two, but closer in concept to the Troller.

          • 0 avatar
            caltemus

            I’m hoping for a restyled troller that’s less ugly and more classic-bronco

          • 0 avatar
            Len_A

            The Bronco absolutely looks to be a rebadged Everest. There are zero prototypes running around Dearborn of the Bronco show car, and more than a few mules running around that despite the large amounts of tape and front and rear bra disguises, are obviously North American versions of the Everest.

        • 0 avatar
          arach

          I always kind of expected the bronco to be a re-release of the explorer sport track… Might it actually be on the explorer frame?

          • 0 avatar

            A fair question, though I was thinking the RWD Explorer wouldn’t be ready at the same time as Bronco/Ranger.

            I’ve never been clear on what’s happening with the new Explorer/Aviator, and what exactly they will be.

    • 0 avatar
      George B

      I too was disappointed that the Ranger doesn’t appear to have gone through the weight reduction effort applied to the F-150 and I really expected 3.3L NA V6 and 2.7L ecoboost V6 engine options. Like most mass market vehicles designed primarily for foreign markets, there’s some dimension that’s just too small relative to the other dimensions. The width is too small for the height and weight and the cylinder count is unexpectedly small in this case.

      • 0 avatar
        dukeisduke

        I think Ford is hedging their bets; they’re waiting to see how well this one sells before pouring development money into an all-new one with features like an aluminum-intensive structure. The T6 has been around since 2011, so this is a low-risk launch for them.

        If it sells like crazy, then maybe the next version will add a lot of things that Americans care about. If it doesn’t, they can drop it in the US and not be out too much money.

  • avatar
    dougjp

    Compared to the past a relatively meaningless show with only one day of reveals dominated by trucks. Depressing just like the autonomous irrelevant stuff. arach (above) described it.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    I’m just mystified as to who is pushing for the autonomous driving future.

    Who actually trusts the technology, and/or wants it?

    SAE Level 2 autonomy has already proven that human intervention is not just required on paper, but in practice, yet it has also been proven how disconnected humans become when the tech is expected to operate at a higher level than it actually can.

    A more meaningful discussion of autonomous driving can occur when the Level 4 and 5 systems come out, in which the machine claims to require no intervention. But who seriously thinks this is possible?

    • 0 avatar
      Sub-600

      Dr. Charles Forbin.

    • 0 avatar
      danio3834

      It makes for good media; fulfilling the promise of the FUTURE!

      As we’ve found out again and again, reality ends up being something different.

      • 0 avatar
        George B

        Autonomous passenger cars on public roads feels like a solution in search of a problem. What would make my life better is tools that assist the driver on the road combined with a low speed self-valet feature where the car takes on the tedious task of finding a parking space on a parking lot.

    • 0 avatar
      MrIcky

      Sure it’s possible (fully autonomous cars). Why wouldn’t it be possible. Just a matter of time and investment. I’m not saying it’s good, but it will happen- I think that die has been cast. The good news is I won’t have to wait for the senior bus to drive me to the Piggly Wiggly when I’m too old to drive there myself.

    • 0 avatar
      sportyaccordy

      GM is rolling out a level 5 car next year, so not only is it possible but it’s coming very soon.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      “I’m just mystified as to who is pushing for the autonomous driving future.”

      My mom will turn 80 next year. She is still a decent driver on roads she knows, but the clock is ticking. She lives in a suburb and would not be able to afford a move into the city easily. I’m hoping there will be an autonomous option for her by the time she can’t drive anymore.

    • 0 avatar
      mikedt

      I like driving and I can’t wait for autonomous cars since 90% of the people on the road would rather be texting or watching Instagram videos. And as long as autonomous cars can’t seem to deal with snowstorms or heavy rain I’m not too worried about them outlawing DIY driving.

    • 0 avatar
      Maymar

      As long as I have to share the roads with the apathetic drivers who can’t keep within their lane, drive at 5 under the limit just to sail through a stale yellow, stop dead only half in a turn lane, and any other number of complaints, I will push for giving them every possible option to not drive.

    • 0 avatar
      TW5

      No one is really pushing for it. Cars and cities don’t mix, especially as urban concentration rises in more American metropolises. Autonomous personal transportation is a pipe-dream the manufacturers are embracing to pretend that car-free city centers won’t be our future.

      They should be focusing on the suburbanites, exurbanites, and country folks who choose not to live in congested cities. They still want to drive (apparently), and they aren’t planning to ban cars any time soon. Their way of life relies entirely upon the automobile.

  • avatar
    jack4x

    I only wish they had unveiled the mid engined Corvette….

    • 0 avatar
      danio3834

      If you’ve been a car enthusiast for the last few decades, you’d know GM will never reveal the mid-engined Corvette.

      • 0 avatar
        JohnTaurus

        Is that’s why it has been seen testing many times in the last few months? Because it’ll never exist?

        It already exists. https://goo.gl/images/v63zPB

        • 0 avatar
          danio3834

          Gosh you’re obtuse.

          http://www.superchevy.com/features/1701-2019-mid-engine-chevrolet-corvette-was-decades-in-the-making/

          • 0 avatar
            JohnTaurus

            Yes, its been rumored for about as long as the car has existed. That doesn’t mean it’ll never happen. You want to talk about obtuse.

            But, hey, the Caravan is the worlds most reliable vehicle, so anything is possible.

  • avatar
    Truckducken

    Hearing the Silverado will become even larger was kind of a WTF for me. At this rate, pickups will soon be the size of big rigs, with a hoist to haul the driver up into the cabin.

  • avatar
    JohnTaurus

    I’m angry that all American full-size pickups are 469 feet long and 89 feet wide and 66 feet tall. And the Colorado is exactly the same size as a 1997 Suburban.

    Don’t show me figures that prove this is wrong or I’ll repeat it every time an American truck is vaguely mentioned.

  • avatar
    Lichtronamo

    Pretty big deal when Chevy and RAM debut new full-size pickups and Ford brings the new Ranger. And a new Mustang variant. But, I remember when the debuts used to extend over 2.5 days. All the fun was over on Monday. Kind of a let down.

  • avatar
    MrIcky

    No anger here. I remember when there was talk about shutting down the Detroit Auto Show. The Euros and Japan had already done their own their own intros, so it’s morphed into a US-centric show (trucks, mustangs and avalons). I’m happy it still exists. If Chevy does intro a mid engine ‘vette anywhere but Detroit (or maybe the Texas State Fair) then a piece of me will die.

    • 0 avatar
      dukeisduke

      I’ll be pedantic and remind you that it’s the State Fair of Texas (not the Texas State Fair). The largest state fair in the US, and one that’s actually profitable. But, I can’t see it being launched here in Dallas; only in Detroit.

  • avatar
    Jason Boydston

    As a self admitted Dodge fanboy (I still don’t like the Ram branding) I was depressed by the new truck redesign. It has a “Me Too” air about it, nothing ground breaking or even evolutionary about it. The interior was nice and that is all I can say good about it. I am not a fan of the new etorque technology; as a truck owner I want simple, basic hauling. I don’t want Auto Start Stop, its just plain annoying. I want the truck to remain on and I choose when to turn it off (And No, I don’t want to have to press the off button for this feature every time I start the truck). I hate to say it but it makes me want to hold on to my 2012 truck because it is better than the new truck. I will cross my fingers and hope they don’t screw up the 2500/3500 trucks……

    • 0 avatar
      TW5

      The styling is actually quite distinct in an important way. The Chevy and Ford have the weird buttresses off of the base of the A-pillar that run longitudinally to the front fascia. The Ram hood has the raised center like a muscle car. It’s subtle, but it’s not MeToo.

      Can’t fault you for wanting to hold on to your truck. Each model year from here on out will probably get worse as CAFE 2025 pushes for longer wheelbases, more generic aero-styling, and expensive “green” powertrains, including hybridization.

    • 0 avatar
      PentastarPride

      I’m very disappointed in the Ram as well. No semblance to its heritage at all. I didn’t much like the design language of the ’09-18 trucks but at least it incorporated much of its heritage. This is a clean slate and not for the better. FCA ruined the (Dodge) Ram once and for all.

      The new Chevy Silverado looks like a complete wreck (what is with the side-scalloped headlights?). The F150 has the best appearance (that’s not saying much) and I wouldn’t touch that or the Tundra with a 50-foot pole.

      I’m holding on to my ’06 Mega Cab 2500. just like I’m holding on to my ’13 200 and my ’93 Concorde (my beloved classic). I don’t want a rolling semiautonomous hybrid or electric blob with more sophistication than what a space shuttle had a decade ago.

  • avatar
    I_like_stuff

    Airbus announced today that it will cease making the A380. Remember how just a few short years ago, that was THE FUTURE of air travel? Double decker planes that could carry 800, 900, 1000 even people. Yeah BABY!!

    3D TV was all the rage about 10 years ago. THE FUTURE was here!! Today, they’re practically extinct.

    Remember how everyone would own a Segway?

    I’m getting the same vibe of THE FUTURE of self driving cars. It sounds good and cool and there’s definitely a wow factor. But I’m not convinced the actual future will include THE FUTURE as far as cars go. I think there will be some self driving cars like taxis, buses, etc. We already have self driving trams now, so that’s not all that much of a leap. But other than that, I don’t see the mass self driving world many are predicting. I see ownership of cars with a lot of AI built into those cars. And maybe even an on/off switch between driving yourself and self driving. However, ownership will still be there, with a car parked in the driveway.

    • 0 avatar
      TW5

      You can forgive Airbus for thinking people were not interested in suicide by airplane, but alas, cheap fuel prices mean more flights and smaller planes, which has been the industry norm for decades now. The days of flying a 747 from NY to LA are long gone. Sardine cans bouncing around in turbulence for everyone!

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Lifetime orders for 737 and variants are nearly 14:1 over 787.

        orders/deliveries/unfulfilled

        14262 9805 4489

        modernairliners.com/boeing-737/boeing-737-orders-and-deliveries/

        orders/deliveries/unfulfilled

        1,287 625 662

        modernairliners.com/boeing-787-dreamliner/boeing-787-dreamliner-deliveries/

        Flew several 777s outside of the US recently, including Swiss to and back from Prague (ZRH to PRG, odd for a short hop I thought). The 787 can’t catch a break.

        • 0 avatar
          hubcap

          737 has been in production since the late 60’s. 787 came on line about seven years ago.

          737 is tried and true. You know what you’re getting. Additionally, its used by the military. It’s also in a different market than the 787. One’s a narrow body. The other a wide body.

          787 was developed to replace the 767.

          We’ll have to wait a few years to see how much of success it becomes.

          I think it’s fair to say it wont have the success of the 787 not because its not good but because 1) the 737 is the best selling passenger airliner in the world and 2) 787s operate in a smaller market than 737.

    • 0 avatar
      dukeisduke

      Well, Airbus announced that they’ll stop building the A380 if they can’t convince Emirates to order more aircraft. I’ll bet that Boeing is glad they decided against trying to build a direct competitor to the A380.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        Boeing’s 747-8 Intercontinental, while a total flop, did have the effect of keeping Airbus honest on A380 pricing, which didn’t help the A380 program’s financial picture.

        The A380 is a great airplane… for about 50 routes, total, in the world. And everyone who operates those routes already has all the A380s they need.

  • avatar
    TW5

    Based upon long term industry trends, it’s difficult to be optimistic about the future for auto manufacturers. CAFE is one of several EF5 tornados looming on the horizon. The manufacturers have prepared by purchasing umbrellas.

    Cities are becoming increasingly hostile to cars, but the manufacturers are clinging to a fairy tale about autonomous cars changing the minds of city-dwellers. Meanwhile, they are letting CAFE wipeout vehicles that have been staples of the countryside. How does the guy in Evergreen, Colorado benefit from the death of the Xterra? How does the farmer in Paris, TX benefit from superfluous body-cladding and minimal ground clearance on the average 2wd pickup? How does he benefit from stratospheric prices for a Chevy Tahoe? These vehicular travesties are a glimpse into the world of CAFE 2025.

    The manufacturers are also facing demographic headwinds as young Americans stop working and increase student borrowing. The manufacturers don’t seem interested in lobbying against the trend. They just extend the amortization schedule on new car loans. Corporate tax reform may help reverse the trend, along with long-term secular economic growth. We’ll see.

    Ultimately, industry is being poisoned by groupthink, malicious regulation, and apathetic self-sabotage; yet no one in Detroit or elsewhere seems to be doing anything about it. The industry is so jaded and demoralized, it doesn’t care whether it survives. It’s like the McMansion-ing of America. The industry is getting better and better at committing suicide, but no one seems to realize that’s what they are doing. NAICS doesn’t provide any indication that things will change.

  • avatar
    hifi

    Not angry. Just bored. The biggest thing that the domestics had to show were a bunch of pickup trucks. Even the slow kid in the class deserves respect, but pickup trucks are the “slow kid” nonetheless.

  • avatar
    427Cobra

    it seems the writing is on the wall… damned pedestrians… it’s all about them… sheesh. I’ll have to hang onto my Red Barchetta… actually, it’s an ’04 C5 Corvette Z06 for days when I can blast into the country & get my fix. Too bad I sold my Cobra… that was REALLY my “Red Barchetta”… but the Vette is FAR more comfortable… gets much better mileage too.

    My disappointment is that it’s next to impossible to find a “basic” car any more… especially with a manual. Anything loaded with electronics… I lease. Give me a stripper Corolla… roll-up windows… 5 speed manual… no BLIS… no backup cam… no pre-collision braking… just basic… and cheap…

    I REALLY like the refresh on the Ram… and that’s coming from an owner of a ’16 Ram 2500 crew cab/short bed 6.4L Hemi 4×4.

  • avatar
    427Cobra

    … not a fan of the “cat’s cradle” grill on the Chebby… and the Ford front end looks like a Japanese anime character that got punched in the face… and I’m a Ford fanboy!

  • avatar
    kurtamaxxguy

    Not really angry, but tired of seeing ever more angular prototypes on huge rubber-banded wheels, huger grilles to get shattered by minor parking accidents, ever more “street legal” track cars in disguise that can never use their potential on public roads, and ever more lifted, expanded “luxury” trucks clogging malls and highways. I’m not particularly advocating boring econo-boxes or self drivers, but whatever happened to auto practicality?

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