By on December 22, 2016

2017 Acura ILX blue

Consumer Reports’ Annual Owner Satisfaction Survey was released today, showcasing exactly how owners feel about the vehicular choices they’ve made this year.

While numerous manufacturers managed to keep owners living in automotive tranquility, some lacked the required magic. There was even one automaker that had a nearly 50/50 split of producing customers that, if given the chance, would travel back in time to stop themselves from engaging in the single purchase that created the dystopian hell they unknowingly forced themselves into.

It was Fiat.

Of course it was, and this news won’t shattering anyone’s reality. The automaker has consistently found itself near the bottom of every list we’ve come across this year. The Italian automaker did manage to keep all of its models out of the steaming mound of cars people most regretted buying, however — it happened to be one of very few FCA divisions eligible to make that claim.

According to responses on the over 300,000 vehicles involved in Consumer Reports’ Annual Owner Satisfaction Survey, Acura’s ILX was the least endearing, most regrettable purchase you could make. Dissatisfied owners faulted it for being a dressed-up and over-priced Honda Civic, complaining that it was too slow, had an unrefined ride, and boasted loads of road noise.

The Nissan Frontier was faulted for similar niggles in the truck segment, just at a more reasonable price point, while the Rogue was condemned for its absolutely terrible initial quality.

Everything else on the short list of big mistakes were courtesy of FCA. The Jeep Compass, Chrysler 200, Dodge Dart and Dodge Grand Caravan all took hits for similar reasons — uncomfortable seating, subpar powertrains, and low-quality interiors.

It wasn’t all misery and regret, however.

The survey uncovered that 91 percent of Tesla owners agreed that they would “definitely” purchase their specific vehicle again if they were forced to make the decision a second time. That placed the EV company at the top of customer satisfaction by a noticeable margin. Porsche was a full seven percentage points behind, followed by Audi, Subaru, and Toyota. The remaining brands mostly remained in the 70 to 75-percent range, ahead of a handful of poor performers.

Jeep, Acura, Infiniti, Nissan, and Fiat all averaged a sub 60-percent satisfaction score.

Of the 29 brands surveyed, Lincoln and Hyundai were the most improved from 2015. Consumer Reports had Lincoln moving from 21st to 12th place and Hyundai rising to 13th from 24th.

Meanwhile Ram, at 70 percent, dropped from 5th in the previous year’s survey to 17th this year. BMW fell from 6th to 14th and Volkswagen sank from 16th to 24th place, according to the magazine.

[Image: American Honda]

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154 Comments on “Consumer Reports Dumps Acura Near Fiat in Owner Satisfaction Survey...”


  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    “Dissatisfied owners faulted it (the ILX) for being a dressed-up and over-priced Honda Civic, complaining that it was too slow, had an unrefined ride, and boasted loads of road noise.”

    They discovered these things *after* they bought the car?

    “The Jeep Compass, Chrysler 200, Dodge Dart and Dodge Grand Caravan all took hits…” All leaving the FCA portfolio soon, so no worries!

    Typo: “Hyundai rising from 13th from 24th” should read “Hyundai rising to 13th from 24th”.

    • 0 avatar
      Cactuar

      Exactly what I came here to say. That’s what a test drive is for.

      • 0 avatar
        kvndoom

        A test drive and living with it are two greatly different things. And how often do salesthings take customers on a predefined route during the test drive?

        Somebody on here said before you should always rent the car that you’re thinking about driving, for the best experience. I can see the value in doing that.

        • 0 avatar
          30-mile fetch

          I dunno. Customer needs to pay attention and tell the salesman that they need a more thorough test drive. This isn’t difficult to do if you exert any effort.

          I didn’t let the salesman come with me on the test drives of last three vehicle purchases and as a result I had a very good handle on the NVH, seat comfort, road noise, power delivery, and ride quality over a 20 minute test drive.

          Even in the case of our bland used 4-cyl midsize sedan appliance hunt, a surprising degree of variation in all of those factors was present between models.

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        The “seat comfort” knock against the 200 is one of those things you can’t argue against, but also one of the things a test drive won’t always indicate. You need to spend at least 45 minutes to 1 hour in the car. When I drove a Focus ST for a weekend I first thought the recaros were great. Just about an hour in my tailbone was kvetching.

        • 0 avatar
          Higheriq

          The Recaros in the STs require much more than 45 minutes to be comfortable; more like a couple of weeks to shape themselves to the respective backside. Also, if you’re over 200 pounds, forget the Recaros and get the base seats.

      • 0 avatar

        Honda drivers don’t do test drives. They come to Honda dealership and declare “I want white Honda”. That’s what I read in the book “Car”. I went to Honda dealership once in 2002 and was told that I cannot test drive unless I intended to buy Honda right away. Apparently they have lots of loyal customers. So I never went to Honda again ever. I test drove Acura TL though once in 2012 and was unimpressed to put it mildly.

        • 0 avatar
          OldManPants

          “I want white Honda”

          Stop spying on me, tovarisch.

        • 0 avatar
          SoCalMikester

          when the 1st gen fit came out in 2006, i wanted to test drive it.

          i was in the market for a 4 door hatch, and it was one of probably 2 contenders at the time, the other being the scion xA.

          they didnt seem interested. couldnt be bothered, and were selling above list anyway. after figuring the only REAL difference was a seat whose bottom could be flipped up like magic and a $3000 price diff, i went with the Scion.

          still have it, couldnt be happier.

          • 0 avatar
            JohnTaurus_3.0_AX4N

            Now, the only time I was refused a test drive of the vehicle I wanted was a new 2005 Ford Mustang GT.

            By contrast, John and I visited a Honda dealer a while back. I made it clear I wasn’t in a position to buy at that time, but, I still drove a new Accord coupe. I was offered a V-6 EX-L coupe but I chose the LX since its the one I’d get, albeit with a 6MT.

            John didn’t even have a license on him (it was valid, just lost/stolen) and he drove a new Civic Turbo.
            All through town, on the interstate, a good 45 mins to an hour. No pressure, just as friendly and agreeable the whole time. Spent like 45 minutes walking the lot and checking different cars out. I was offered a manual trans HR-V test drive. I politely declined.

            “Your experience may vary”, is the the only term that fits I suppose.

        • 0 avatar
          ceipower

          No question Honda’s ego has soared even as their products became more and more so-so. They were the darlings of the press 25 years ago, and apparently they quit reading reviews shortly after that. Facts are Honda has wasted billions on the HondaJet that may never turn a profit. Where did they get that money? Mostly the car business. They act very much like GM , they think whatever they put out they people will buy because it’s a Honda.

    • 0 avatar
      SirRaoulDuke

      What’s funny is I thought that was the whole point of the ILX. I guess people are dumb.

    • 0 avatar
      tlccar

      This is ridiculous. I sell Acuras and honestly my customers love their vehicles. The ILX is a poor seller to begin with, so why Consumer Reports would base Acura’s standing on customer satisfaction with the ILX puzzles me. Furthermore, everyone on here seems ready to bash Honda/Acura. The RDX is absolutely not a CR-V. The build quality and materials are far superior, has better seats, is more luxurious, is quieter and rides/handles better. I wonder how many people that love their RDX’s and MDX’s didn’t even respond to Consumer Reports survey? I go by word of mouth and speak to owners directly. If everyone wants to believe Consumer Reports so be it. The bashing is just not fair.

      • 0 avatar
        DeadWeight

        Consumer Reports isn’t infallible, but their methodology is statistically sound and sample size of owners/vehicles is unparalleled, and I think they get the right results and publish them more often that not.

        And yes, Acura has fallen down badly, with vehicles that literally are badge jobs of Hondas, with some additional tech features (and AWD on others) to try and differentiate the product line and a significantly higher price.

        At one time, Acuras really did seem to be made of better stuff, engineering, assembly, materials, etc, than Honda, but those days are long gone.

        You have sell-side-side bias as your a) income is derived from selling Acura vehicles, and b) you most likely get a string of loyal buyers who’ve been repeat buyers of the brand for a while, but this doesn’t mean that Acura hasn’t remained competitive among premium vehicles, nor as reliable or well-assembled or durable or as good in terms of NVH as it once was.

        (*Honda, too, has really taken a tumble in terms of reliability rankings lately, and has, according to the latest CR Reliability Index, fallen a pretty significant 15 spots to now be deemed barely in the reliable category, overall.)

        • 0 avatar
          JimZ

          my problem with CR’s rating system- especially now that they’ve changed their representation- is that the “overall” verdict frequently doesn’t seem to jive with the individual ratings. For example, they give the 2016 Volt a “much worse than average” overall verdict, yet almost all of the individual areas are green or light green, with a couple listed as “average.” I can’t find a satisfactory explanation for that.

      • 0 avatar
        Wildcat

        I never have liked Consumer Reports. In some other product areas, their “reviews” are essentially the laughingstock of the industry, and their rankings of these products are just about worthless. They attempt to be experts on everything. Ever hear the phrase, “Jack of all trades, master of none?” That’s CR, in a nutshell.

        And…I’m reading a comment in this thread that Acuras are “badge jobs” of Hondas. Um, no, try again. What are your sources for this? Please give us several links to prove this fact you obviously are an expert about. We’re waiting…

  • avatar
    ajla

    TARNISHED CALIPERS.

    Acura has no reason to exist.

    • 0 avatar
      Turbo Is Black Magic

      They have some new sports car that’s not as cool as their old sports car and took soooo long to develop we have all collectively “moved on”. Also some tall hatchbacks that suck…and still no new Integra.

      Agreed, they can leave the game.

    • 0 avatar

      Many people and whole countries have no reason to exist but they still persist and will outlive others. Acura exist because it can. There lot of Acura owner esp among Indian engineers in Bay area. Our parking lot is littered with Acuras. And only one Mazda6.

    • 0 avatar
      ceipower

      You are 100% correct. If Honda wanted Acura to fail they could not have done a better job. I feel sorry for the dealers , some of whom put up millions. Remember Acura in its hay day? Hot integras, BMW like Legends, and the original NSX….the future looked pretty good then. Acura has become what Mercury was to Ford.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    The awful ZF 9-spd automatic is found in several of the bottom-feeders in this list (Fiat, Acura, Jeep), but also Honda.

    It is car satisfaction poison.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      I’ll be interested to see the details of the GM 9T50. Hopefully they avoided the need for dog clutches which seem to be the primary cause of complaints about the ZF box.

      • 0 avatar
        SCE to AUX

        The dog clutches certainly contribute to the abrupt quality of some shifts, but I suspect the programming explains the uneven shift spacing this transmission also has.

        Yes, hopefully the GM unit will be much better.

  • avatar
    dal20402

    Ouch. It wasn’t so long ago when Acura was consistently near the top of these surveys. Lexus, too, and now it’s midpack.

    Also looks like VW needs to get rid of VW and turn itself into a luxury car conglomerate.

  • avatar
    30-mile fetch

    The ILX is the worst performer in a poorly performing brand. It makes up 1/10th of Acura’s total sales, so even if it received a satisfaction score of 0 and all of Acura’s other models hit Lexus’s 73% satisfaction, it still couldn’t drag the brand average anywhere near the listed 58%. The volume selling MDX, RDX, and TLX must be doing poorly as well, somewhere around 65% satisfaction. Not super awesome.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      I’m guessing that the MDX and RDX are doing more or less OK and it’s the TLX and RLX (which has had subpar reliability by Acura standards) that are dragging things down.

      • 0 avatar
        30-mile fetch

        The TLX probably, it is about 1/4 of Acura’s sales, but it would still need to be a real stinker to bring brand average down to 58% if the CUVs are getting the satisfaction scores of the Lexus brand. The RLX sells in too few numbers to influence the brand’s average.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      the ILX reeks of a “because we had to” product.

      • 0 avatar
        OldManPants

        Epiphany moment last year when I pulled up behind some little squashed hatchback and had to double-take on the Acura badge.

        Black paint was awesome, though.

        Image searching just today makes me realize it was an ILX wagon. Hurr… it sure was funny!

  • avatar

    Get rid of VW!!! It is the world’s second best selling car brand! They pulled ahead of GM last year.

  • avatar
    Fred

    Model satisfaction is determined by the percentage of owners who responded “definitely yes” to the question of whether they would buy the same vehicle if they had it to do all over again.

    Even tho I like my TSX Sportwagon, I wouldn’t answer yes, because I have rarely bought the same car twice. This is why I don’t like doing surveys.

  • avatar
    S2k Chris

    3x Acura buyer and current 2x Acura owner and I probably have my last Acura I’ll purchase for my own use (wife is less picky and loves hers).

    Unless Acura comes up with something that blows me out of the water (like, say, a detuned V6 TT adopted from the NSX in an SH-AWD sedan) I am just tired of the middling performance, terrible brakes, relatively poor build quality (rattles, bluetooth issues), and all around cynical “it’s good enough” characteristics of my current 2G TSX. And there’s nothing in the current showroom that’s a leap forward.

    • 0 avatar
      TMA1

      How about gimmicky shifters and hidden exhaust outlets? Will that get you into a dealership?

      Acura is clearly out of ideas. I was behind a TLX today, and that car seems incredibly tired already. It’s probably been a month since the last time I saw one on the road. This is a city where every fourth car is a BMW.

    • 0 avatar
      yamahog

      It’s sad – that the mighty have fallen. I just don’t think there’s any point to Acura anymore, everyone who buys a non-MDX/non-RDX Acura probably just wants an Accord with a nicer interior and/or AWD.

      There’s two failures in business – not spending enough money and spending too much. Honda manages to do both: they don’t spend enough money to make it competitive, and they spend too much money on it for lackluster performance.

      Make Acura a trim for Hondas, offer AWD on Hondas, and let dealers keep Acura branding if they want. There are a good amount of people who buy MDXs habitually and you may as well milk that cash cow as long as you can.

      • 0 avatar
        S2k Chris

        It does bug me, because there sometimes are meaningful things I want. We bought an RDX over a CRV primarily because of the V6 in the RDX (and the real armrest, not the stupid little skinny ones on the side of the seat) and if I were buying an Accord V6, I’d definitely go with a TLX to get AWD (really just to avoid FWD). When I bought my current TSX, I paid ~$3k more than an equivalent Accord for the extra ~40 hp and HIDs.

        But all of these COULD be fixed by Honda if they wanted to. Someone (here?) recently said that the current Accord looks like the expensive premium offering and the TLX the downmarket version, and they aren’t wrong.

        • 0 avatar
          Turbo Is Black Magic

          They wasted so much time, talent, and resources on the NSX. Imagine if they put those people to work on everything else instead.

          Fix the ship from the bottom up or you are just swimming around a sail.

          • 0 avatar
            Zykotec

            One of Acuras problems is that they actually build cars properly, while some other brands just build very very nice sails, and then lease them so that the giant holes in the bottom isn’t a problem (for the first owner)
            I honestly believe the engineers at Acura choose fake wood over real wood because it lasts longer…

          • 0 avatar
            ceipower

            Not sure they wasted enough! The NSX looks all chopped up, and the corporate Yahoo!’s had to incorporate a sliver of the “beak”look that nobody has ever had a complimentary thing to say about. We waited years for this ? Sad.

          • 0 avatar
            dantes_inferno

            > the corporate Yahoo!’s had to incorporate a sliver of the “beak”look that nobody has ever had a complimentary thing to say about. We waited years for this ? Sad.

            The beak is back! All hail the beak!

            (sarcasm)

        • 0 avatar
          dal20402

          Renewed focus on little details is all it would take. The TLX concept looked phenomenal, and the only outside differences from the production version were an expensive-to-make body kit and some really cool wheels. Instead, we get something that is way too obviously easy and inexpensive to build.

      • 0 avatar
        SoCalMikester

        ever since they dropped the integra and changed the names to letter combinations, ugh.

        the legend was a legend. now its nothing. same with lincoln, but theyre slowwwwly finding their way back.

        • 0 avatar
          ceipower

          Agreed. However , I am not as confident as you when it comes to Lincoln. Lincoln , like Acura , dropped famous well known model names for a shitty , confusing alphabet soup. Dumb and Dumber. The new Continenal corrects the model name fiasco , but the car still looks like a hot mess. Just my opinion.

  • avatar
    VW4motion

    Parts of the Acura brand reminds me of Pontiac before it was shut down.

  • avatar
    heavy handle

    The discontinued FCA products I can understand, because they are all the cheapest in their class. Nobody wants to shop for a new car with no money to spend. Presumably FCA will dig themselves out of that hole over time, if they manage to raise their transaction price with new models.

    Acura is a bigger problem. They aren’t cheap. If you can afford an Acura, you can also afford a Honda, or Toyota, or even an entry-level European luxury car. In other words, their customers have a choice, unlike those who bought a Dart or a Compass.

    • 0 avatar
      SoCalMikester

      dart and compass buyers could have bought a perfectly good kia or hyundai, with equal depreciation values but better warranties. somethingsomething ‘murica gooder once moar.

      • 0 avatar
        heavy handle

        Yes, they could have extended themselves a bit more for a Kia, or a Nissan, or a Mitsubishi. That’s a depressing thought, isn’t it?

        Anecdotally, I’ve found that used Kias and Hyundais do not hold up very well. A tech I know well attributes this partly to the product, and mostly to the fact their owners always ask for cheaper parts, even when OEM parts are just a few dollars more.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      “Nobody wants to shop for a new car with no money to spend. ”

      sure they do. people *actually* bought Sebrings, you know.

  • avatar
    Nedmundo

    I wonder about the balance in ILX respondents between pre- and post-2016, because it was significantly upgraded last year. I tested an early ILX in 2.4/6MT configuration, and it was awful, with an unsorted chassis and terrible ride quality. The newer ones are apparently much better.

    Over time, I’ve grown to love my 2G TSX for its blend of virtues, but with Acura’s lackluster lineup and abandonment of manual transmissions, I’m not drawn to any current model. The TLX would be nice for long road trips, but it just isn’t very exciting. If the next-gen ILX gets a 2.0T from the CTR and AWD, I could be interested. The excellence of the new Civic bodes well for a solid ILX, but Acura’s recent track record has me prepared to be disappointed.

    • 0 avatar
      WheelMcCoy

      I feel the same way. I have the TSX Wagon (wife’s car) and none of the current models interest me. The old lineup, TSX, TL, and RL was better than the current line up of ILX, TLX, and RLX. And Acura did this to consolidate platforms? To simplify? Cut costs? And sadly, this is the result.

      Of course, the original lineup, Integra and Legend, later joined by Vigor and NSX, was best!

    • 0 avatar
      jalop1991

      Huh. I own that early ILX in 2.4/6MT configuration, and I have no idea what you’re talking about. Chassis and ride quality are exactly right for that car.

      Honda can go fuck themselves with a tire iron, though, for foisting that bluetooth on the world–and then blowing us off when we complain.

      BTW, I bought used with low miles. That’s the only way to go. Who the hell buys a new Acura???

      • 0 avatar
        Firestorm 500

        I did. A new MDX Technology for my wife. She didn’t want something someone else had owned for a while. We keep a vehicle for a long time. I was able to do it, so I did.

        And I’m glad I did. She is very happy with it. ZERO defects after almost 2 years.

        Happy wife, happy life.

      • 0 avatar
        Fred

        Well a new TSX Wagon was 28500, used was 26,000 After 2 years I see them on lots for 24000. Don’t know about the other models, but for some unknown reason, the slow selling wagon is desirable in the used market.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        At least around here, it doesn’t make sense to buy a lightly used Acura. They are almost as expensive as new and you don’t get factory incentives.

        That’s been true for a long time. I paid $26900, MSRP at the time, in June 2003 for my very early ’04 TSX. I sold it back *to the buying dealer* in August 2005, with 23,000 miles, for $22,000. They listed it at $24,999.

    • 0 avatar
      boogieman99

      The current ILX with the 2.4/8DCT is solid, especially since you can get them for the same price as the Mazda 3 2.5L and Civic 1.5L in some parts of Canada.

    • 0 avatar
      carlisimo

      The problem is that the 2016 ILX wasn’t upgraded nearly as much as the Civic.

  • avatar
    OldManPants

    Patriot’s not on the poo list and it’s still nice & square! But I just can’t make myself walk into one of *those* places.

    I’ll try repeatedly driving by the closest one and see if I can warm up to the notion. Ah… I’ll drink a couple-three cans of soda before I get in the car.

  • avatar
    Trucky McTruckface

    Does Honda actually have a strategy for Acura? If they do, they’re doing a great job hiding it. For the first couple of model years, the ILX was saddled with a gutless 150 horsepower engine unless you wanted a manual (which most people don’t). They finally rectified this for 2016 (dropping the manual version, of course) just in time for the car to get outclassed by the Civic Touring in every way. Meanwhile, the RDX just got leapfrogged by the new CRV and the TLX is an Accord with nicer carpet and a last generation audio system.

    Most EX trim Hondas now come with Apple CarPlay/Android Auto, remote start and fog lights as standard equipment. You have to shell out over 40k for an Advance Package model if you want remote start and fog lights on an Acura; If you want CarPlay or Android Auto you can pound sand because they still aren’t available. Big f**king surprise owners are dissatisfied…

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      ACURA STRATEGY

      1. Sell Hondas for 25% more margin.
      2. ???
      3. Profit.

      • 0 avatar
        Zykotec

        You got it backwards, I think they spend way to much money in ways that are not very apparent and then sell them with too little profit, which again makes the cars seem like just a tiny upgrade over a Honda.

      • 0 avatar
        indi500fan

        As long as the suckers are willing to pay the “Acura premium” it’s a pretty solid biz strategy. They started the brand out with some good stuff, built their rep, and are now seeing how hard they can milk that rep. One of the problems is there’s a good bit of lead time in the car industry, so if you overshoot on the cheesiness, you can stumble pretty bad.

    • 0 avatar
      A09

      When I bought my Pilot around this time last year, I briefly cross-shopped the Acura MDX Lineup. I ran into the same head-scratching Acura vs. Honda attributes you described. I bought the Pilot Elite, which would be equivalent to the MDX with Advance and Technology packages. The Pilot-equivalent MDX is $10,000 more and is smaller.

      After owning the Pilot for 13 months, I am regretting my decision for leaving Toyota (prior vehicle was a Japan-built ’08 Toyota Highlander) and looking forward to returning to Toyota in several years. While the ZF 9HP has been fine after the Feb ’16 software update, the radio reception and A/C Compressor back-EMF problems are off-putting.

    • 0 avatar
      ceipower

      Honda’s strategy is simple, siphon off money that was made in the auto division , send it to the HondaJet project and don’t worry about it. That’s been going on for ten plus years and continues to this day. They may claim otherwise , but where else did the money come from? HondaJet , as far as I know has never turned a profit and I don’t know if it is actually delivered a single plane to a buyer yet. It will be at least another decade even if things go well before HondaJet turns a profit. Honda doesn’t print their money , so it has to come from the other divisions. Do the math.

  • avatar
    DeadWeight

    Acura sucks, with a lineup of uninspiring, boring and now, even unrefined and even some unreliable vehicles, and is a mere shadow of its former (1988 to 2005, roughly) self.

    Acura made my Naughty List again this year, along with:

    1) Cadillac

    2) Bruick (Confucius say Envision fall apart soon after purchase)

    3) Honda! (exclamation point due to their deep dive in terms of reliability rankings)

    4) Nissan (truly coal-worthy; the new Mitsubishi-Diamond Star Motors)

    5) Acura (as mentioned; over-priced, bland, boring, Hondas)

    6) Fiat (I realize their are fans here, but Fiat does not match the U.S. well)

    7) BMW (Screw you, watered-down, porked-out, ultimate pig machines – the new Buick)

    8) Hyundai/Kia (this will crush bd2’s heart and soul as he sells them, but no forward progress for 5 years now, with terrible dealerships, back-sliding reliability and styling, and little innovation, along with non-competitive pricing)

    9) Volkswagen (criminals of the year, letting total arrogance and stupidity lull them into 17 to 22 billion in fines and pending criminal prosecutions of individual executives and employees)

    2016 Shining Stars:

    1) Volvo (literally breaking new ground in interior design/materials/comfort at its price point; let’s see what long-term reliability looks like under Geely ownership, which I fear for)

    2) Audi (they have perfected clean, sharp design, ergonomics, interior refinement & precision, and have even broken into upper ranks of reliability rankings)

    3) Subaru (not necessarily from a product point-of-view, but based on a marketing/sales perspective, NO COMPANY knows how to connect with its intended customer base and maintain that relationship like Subaru)

    4) Aston-Martin (this is ONLY on the nice list because NO company knows how to sculpt a sexier vehicle body exterior than Aston Martin, particularly from a side profile and 2/3s rear perspective; there’s magic in the air of Aston’s design studio – too bad, there’s a curse when it comes to reliability/durability. Give Aston Lexus or even Buick or Ford reliability and Ferrari performance, and it would be the ultimate road-going vehicle manufacturer of all time)

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      DW,

      this is *spot on.*

      all of it.

    • 0 avatar
      SirRaoulDuke

      I am not convinced Hyundai/Kia is backsliding on reliability. I do agree the styling has went backwards, especially for Hyundai, a big reason I chose to purchase a lightly used, off lease Elantra over the new model. Even the new instrument pod struck me as a step backwards, and s$!t that is what you look at the most while driving. And why is Kia so much lower than Hyundai? The same damn cars, come on.

      BMW has lost their way. And I agree, a big FU to VW.

      Man, Subaru makes a decent car, but it is just decent (until it snows). You are correct, they have nailed their target customer.

      Audi still scares the crap out of me. No way I would buy one, still lease only.

      I really think Chevy has made great strides, we will see where that takes them. Not great cars, but good enough, and there is always cash on the hood.

      Anyway, nothing in this survey means crap until someone owns a car for five years and out of warranty.

      • 0 avatar
        tonycd

        Yes, Sir. Not buying that Audi stuff – literally.

        I was at my local repair garage lately (for my wife’s beater), and they happened to have a late-model S6 there with the hood open. I made a casual remark praising it, and I opened the floodgates for the mechanic to respond in calm but disbelieving tones about all the supercharger tubing and impeller blades made of plastic that expanded and contracted over time in normal underhood heat, eventually causing failures. He was appalled that such obviously questionable materials were used in what was represented and priced as an upscale car. “Lease German,” he advised a family member who was jonesing for a VW product.

        Points for your Envision comment, though.

    • 0 avatar
      bd2

      Nice to see DW’s make-believe ability is as great as ever.

      H/K’s biggest issue is having been way to slow in adjusting to the change in the marketplace in favor of crossovers, SUVs and trucks.

      2017 will see the launch of their subcompact crossovers, as well as the Niro, but they still need to do a major overhaul (still don’t have a real full-size crossover and the Santa Cruz should have been on the fast-track).

      Another issue, is that the styling has taken a step back – going from overwrought (in the case of Hyundai) to overly bland.

      In addition, still isn’t enough of a differentiation btwn H and K (Kia should be tuned more towards sport than they are, at least for the “sport” trim, even if the American consumer doesn’t seem to care about that – see Mazda).

      As for reliability, H/K are doing fine. Kia is top 5 in Consumer Reports and last year was tied for #1 with Mazda in Germany’s AutoBild reliability report; Hyundai has regained the top spot for AutoBild.

      Overall, Kia has a better lineup than Hyundai, but the only model that would be a top pick would be the Sorento (for most segments, my top pick would be a Mazda).

  • avatar
    Corollaman

    Spent a week with a rental Focus SE hatch, did not like the heavy, clumsy doors and the transmission was too jerky at low speeds I also found the car sluggish in the first couple of gears and then it did pick up speed nicely

    • 0 avatar
      Frank Galvin

      Seconded. I use ZipCar to avoid huge parking fees where I work for the occasional errand meeting, and their fleet is Ford heavy. The base focus with auto is a dog. Can’t get out of its own way to save it’s life. Now, the Escape SE Awd with the Ecoboost 2.0 parked next to it, what a blast.

  • avatar
    Zykotec

    I never understood why Hondas caught on in the US in the first place. Imagine having to choose between a beautiful land yacht with a vinyl roof, automatic everything , leather interior, outlandish bottom end torque, suspension that swallows anything even the worst American road can throw at you and acres of chrome script, bumpers and stainless trim, vs a tiny hatchback with a wheezing foubanger, cloth seats and almost no sound insualtion at all. Anyone who chose an Accord over a Granada in 1976 must have been considered a dimwit. For the price of a Civic you could probably have bought something really cool like a Monza. And they almost didn’t even have any options when they first came to the US.
    As for reliability, look how many are left. It’s obvious that the Cadillacs and Camaros of the 70’s were much better than Hondas since people still drive them everyday. And the big three still had new front ends and taillights almost every year . And you couldn’t even get stripes or spoilers on the first Preludes. I’m surprised they even bothered making cars in the first place with that attitude.

    • 0 avatar
      Trucky McTruckface

      “For the price of a Civic you probably could have bought something really cool like a Monza.”

      That’s some first-rate trolling right there. Bravo.

      • 0 avatar
        OldManPants

        He’s from France, doesn’t know any better.

      • 0 avatar
        Zykotec

        quote* ‘The Chevrolet Monza 2+2 won Motor Trend magazine’s “Car of the Year” award for 1975.’

        • 0 avatar
          OldManPants

          I turned 21 in ’75 and well remember the Monza, especially the yellow ones that within 5 years turned into pizza that smelled like gas.

          • 0 avatar
            Zykotec

            I wonder how many will remember all the 20+ different BMW, M-B and Audi SUV’s 40 years from now.

          • 0 avatar
            OldManPants

            Trick question: Asking only about German SUVs allows for quality as low as the Monza’s and its ilk.

            No current Asian or American ones will be so cursed through the years and hence will be less memorable. Price of progress.

          • 0 avatar
            raph

            Proper hot-rodding material though. Made from the get-go to house a small block chevy you could stuff them with all the way up to a 400 CID V8 if you weren’t inclined to do a stroker plus they were fairly light and had a torque arm rear suspension and SLA front.

            I actually owned two of the Olds Starfire versions. The first was a I4 to V8 swap the second a V6 that was to be a V8 car but it fell by the wayside after an interim 80 dollar Chevette that got me around till I purchased a 5 liter Mustang.

            Fun cars that could be made into a fast little machine.

          • 0 avatar
            OldManPants

            //..if you weren’t inclined to do a stroker plus they were fairly light and had a torque arm rear suspension and SLA front.

            “I say, mater, cabbage crates coming over the briny. Er — cow-catchers creeping up on the conning towers?”

            Merry Christmas to whomever remembers that.

        • 0 avatar
          Dave M.

          Didn’t the Citation as well in 1980? Enuff said.

        • 0 avatar
          Firestorm 500

          The Chevrolet Citation was COTY in 1980.

          Later on, Motor Trend apologized for that one. First and only time they ever apologized.

      • 0 avatar

        I’m pretty sure this was posted for humor value. This one line had me in stitches:

        “Anyone who chose an Accord over a Granada in 1976 must have been considered a dimwit.”

    • 0 avatar
      Jagboi

      Honda’s were popular for a number of reasons. They actually started and ran fairly well. They tended to keep running well through the ownership period. The same could not be said of American cars in the 70’s. All the mechanics at the Chrysler dealer knew my Dad on a first name basis because he was in weekly for the warranty period because they couldn’t figure out how to get his Plymouth Volarie to start when it was warm or hot. Started fine form cold, but not if the engine had any heat in it.

      Chrysler starters of the period had a distinctive sound, I remember in the shopping center parking lots hearing the sound Chryslers being cranked and cranked as their owners tried in vain to start their cars.

      The other big reason Japanese cars caught on was the oil crisis of 1973 and 79. Would you choose a Honda that could get 30 mpg, or a Cadillac that got 8 mpg when there are huge lineups st the gas station, or signs out saying “no gas today”. The oil price quadrupled in 6 months between 1973-74 and at the time there was no end on sight. The oil price went from $3/bbl in early 1973 to almost $40/bbl in 1980. Would you buy a gas guzzler with those sorts of price increases and shortages? Especially when there was an alternative? If the alure of big cars is so great, why is Europe today full of little diesel hatchbacks with engines smaller than 2 litres? It what is affordable, and in the 70’s buying a economical Japanese car was a way to beat inflation.

      Don’t forget the 70’s was a tough decade economically, inflation and interest rates were high, there was much political instability in the world and a lot of people were not able to afford a big barge with high running costs.

      Where do you see 70’s Cadillacs and Camaros daily driven? Where I am the junkyards are full of 90’s and newer cars, and 80’s cars are just about gone. 70’s cars are extinct except for a few left as collector cars.

      • 0 avatar
        Zykotec

        I was joking, and I know all those reasons, but todays car buyers are buying todays equivalents of vinyl roofs, chrome scripts big blocks and rich corinthian leather like it’s 1974 again.
        Admittedly most new cars today actually start most days, so the difference between the japanese and the rest is not as apparent, but Acura would much rather spend money on a decent (but smaller) engine and manual transmission than they would on interior materials and fancy exhaust tips.
        I’m not saying Acura is without flaws, because they seem to have no idea what the market really wants, but I really doubt the horrible customer satiscfactory rating is up to their cars somehow being worse than the competition. It’s more up to the customers having unrealistic expectations combined with a lineup that is not very interesting to someone who doesn’t want an Acura or Honda in the first place.
        And even if Acura does a decent job on providing a ‘better’ car to aspire to for a Honda customer, they have no ‘dream cars’ that a current Acura owner can aspire to own some day. So they dream of other luxury cars instead. And with Acuras reliability, they probably aren’t in a hurry to buy a new car yet anyway, while a BMW driver can easily have several cars in the Bimmer line up to choose from, every time the lease on their current car expires.
        I suspect they develop cars based only on feedback from current customers.

        • 0 avatar
          George B

          Zykotec, Acura used to offer a Honda with a larger engine and more upscale styling. Today it’s not obvious that the Acura version is a step up from the highest trim level from Honda. The engine isn’t larger. The styling doesn’t look more expensive. Instead you pay more to get stuck with the ZF 9hp transmission.

      • 0 avatar
        geo

        If I recall correctly, seventies Chryslers sounded like Dino Flintstone when starting.

  • avatar
    Louis XVI

    It took *ten paragraphs* to get around to mentioning that Tesla came in first by a wide margin?

  • avatar

    A test drive is a very brief introduction-you don’t learn much. I’ve had sales folk turn on the radio when we get in…

    My Acura has NOT been more reliable than my BMW or Caddy. None of them are lemons…they spit power accessories (alternator) every 150k or so, battery every three years, shocks last 80 k or so no matter the car.

    The BMW is labor intensive and over engineered (five different plastic fittings in the trunk ? Why ?). The Acura is just a bitch to work on due to crap metal-and is built cheaper than you think, once you start looking at construction-the build quality is downright disappointing when you take the interior apart to fix the bluetooth module. The Caddy is easiest to fix of all, and usually cheapest. Caddy build quality is pretty good when you begin to take things apart. BMW is built for the ages (at least the e46).

    Acura is just Honda by wannabe BMW marketers, but without BMW’s to sell, and not willing to ante up things like rear drive or bigger engines. I’m very disappointed…I recall driving the first Integras and Legends. Now you get Pontiac versions or Mercury versions of the base Chevy-Ford with Acura. Hyundai is going to have a better RWD car than Honda very shortly. The RL is the last vestige of old Acura, made in Japan, but a high price point.

    It could go away and not one enthusiast would notice at this point. Just rebrand the NSX a Honda like the ROW and get on with it.

    • 0 avatar
      EAF

      I know e46’s in and out, having completed just about every type of repair & modification, there is NO ACURA that is less reliable than one of these BMWs. It isn’t even remotely possible – all other things remaining equal.

      If you said the BMW is more fun, more inspiring, better handling, nicer materials etc I would not argue with you. In the amount of time it takes to R&R an e46’s intake manifold I can replace an entire Acura engine & transmission.

      • 0 avatar
        3XC

        My e46 was the least reliable car I’ve ever owned, and the build quality on little things was terrible. Something was always breaking, usually something small, occasionally something important, like when one of the bolts on the accessory drive sheared in half and I lost power steering in a parking lot.

  • avatar
    VoGo

    99% of car news sites would have had a headline reading “Tesla outscores other carmakers in consumer satisfaction by wide margin.”

    But not TTAC. I wonder why.

    • 0 avatar
      mike978

      Because it was note worthy how far Acura has fallen. Not everything is a conspiracy.

    • 0 avatar
      OldManPants

      Dammit, VoGo, did you get demolished and not tell anybody?

      You gotta let us know if you get demolished so we can put someone else in.

      Heh… quick reflexes, mike978. I can tell *you’ve* never been demolished!

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      Because that’s not newsworthy. Tesla fans are like Apple fans. They live to carry water for the CEO of their favorite multi billion dollar corporation, and aren’t shy about bragging about it to everyone within earshot.

      Tesla owners by and large aren’t *car* enthusiasts, they’re *Elon Musk* enthusiasts. Note the high degree of overlap between Tesla fans and SpaceX fans.

      Elon Musk is to nerds what Lebron James is to jocks. What the wish they could be.

  • avatar
    BaBlogger77

    Maybe Acura needs to bring back the beak grill (sarcasm)?

  • avatar
    JMII

    Currently the wife is looking to replace her Volvo. Acura never even appeared on her radar. Honda has the Accord Coupe V6 which is a semi-interesting car… but what does Acura offer? RWD? No. Sporty? Not really. Cool? No way. There was a time when we dreamed of owning an Acura. Between the RSX and TSX you had some sporty choices. Now Japanese Buick pretty much sums it up.

    Ironically we are looking at Infiniti which ranks even lower then Acura. However I bet a lot of that has to do with MPG and the brutal depreciation them fancy Nissan’s suffer from. Buying used removes half that problem. And the owners I’ve talked to rave about their Infinitis.

  • avatar
    87 Morgan

    I would love some insight into Consumer Reports methodology. Do they poll people who are not consumer report ‘customers’? The reason I ask, is if you were a subscriber to consumer reports how on earth would you buy a FCA product? I can’t remember the publication ever recommending a FCA product.

    In my opinion Tesla should not be counted in consumer satisfaction surveys. My reasoning is as follows: I know a handful of Tesla owners. They LOVE them. I have asked each and everyone of them how that is, because when they describe the ‘ownership’ experience in terms of the number of repairs I am shocked. Everyone one of them has had a major replacement of drive line or battery pack. People buy a GM product, have one repair in 3 years and then they are with DeadWeight making naughty lists….

    • 0 avatar
      jmo

      First, the Tesla model S has a rating of average by CR so I’m not sure your sample is accurate. Second, the typical Tesla customer is an affluent early adopter which is basically the opposite of the B&B at TTAC.

      • 0 avatar
        Firestorm 500

        Yep, we’re a bunch of poor Luddites around here.

      • 0 avatar
        OldManPants

        “an affluent early adopter”

        Heh.. that’s Prolix for “a mark”.

      • 0 avatar
        DeadWeight

        jmo – Tesla now ranks at the VERY BOTTOM in Consumer Reports latest Reliability Index.

        I just discovered this in the past day.

        Even before this latest, dramatic downgrade, Tesla had fallen precipitously from its initial reliability rankings in CR’s Reliability Index, and CR was beginning to tabulate data and project that as many as 50% of Tesla Model Ss would require complete drivetrain replacements prior to 60,000 miles.

        • 0 avatar
          RobertRyan

          @DeadWeight
          Combined with normal range anxiety, driving a Tesla must be akin too driving a Detroit Electric as far as reliability goes

        • 0 avatar
          jthorner

          Tesla is what happens when you put Silicon Valley software/internet billionaires in charge of a car company. How long after purchase does a typical cell phone remain useful and reliable? 18 to 48 months? How often does a website crash? Do you want your car to crash as often as your computer, phone or internet connection does?

          Musk & Friends do not really understand what it takes to build something which will work well for a decade, and that is what we now should expect of an automobile.

          You can drive a Ford Fusion at 90% of maximum speed around a race track for hours without it self destructing. A Tesla model S cannot complete a single hot lap around a road course without incident (http://fortune.com/2016/09/15/tesla-model-s-track/).

          • 0 avatar
            OldManPants

            “T***a is what happens when…”

            ..idiot-savants become market forces.

            It’s something new to the world; prior to America only genetically damaged royalty or dictators exerted such a warping influence.

          • 0 avatar
            mcs

            @jthorner: How long does a cell phone remain useful and reliable? I’ve got a Motorola Droid A855 from October 2009 that I was just able to power up and pull down emails. It still works. Not my main phone now, but after 7 years works fine. I have an HP laptop from 2008 that I pressed into service a couple of days ago to convert some DVDs to streaming video. It still has up-to-date software and runs fine. In fact, a smartphone prototype from 1997 that I have still boots up, and if I had the motivation and the time, I could do a bit of work so that it could at least pull-down emails.

            I’m not sure what kind of websites you go to, but I haven’t had any outages with the sites I frequent. I don’t have problems with my computer, phone, or internet connections. Maybe two outages in the last ten years at home. With the most recent one, I was able to run my network through my cell phone connection until my backup router was connected 10 minutes later.

            A Model S that can’t perform a hot lap? Who the f cares. You can drive 200 to 300 miles on a charge which should be fine for most people. You don’t buy sedans to perform hot laps on a track.

            While Model X reliability really does suck because of those stupid doors, the Model S is up to average reliability, which is still not acceptable I suppose, but I think they’ll improve over time.

            But hey, if you want to think your heroes like Roger Smith, Rick Wagoner, Johan, Melody Lee, Mary Barra, and Sergio can run an auto company better that anyone else, go ahead. I’m not stopping you. Go ahead and take your place at the Cadillac Genius Bar, have a latte, wax poetic about the how wonderful the sound of a 4 cylinder is in a $50,000+ luxury car, and compare CT-6 sales against the Model S.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            I don’t think one single Model S owner gives a rip about how long their car can last on a track. It’s not why they bought it.

            that would be like me complaining about the slow lap times of my 4×4 Ranger. Completely missing the point.

            but I forget, this is the internet where all cars have to have ‘Ring times equal to at least the Z06 yet be able to transport a grandfather clock and a sofa from coast-to-coast at a moment’s notice.

        • 0 avatar
          GeneralMalaise

          Failure has never looked so beautiful. One must give ’em that.

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    I can’t wait to see the Fiat commercials touting that their tied with Acura for Customer Satisfaction. Maybe they can get Hipster Santa Claus to do those too.

  • avatar
    ceipower

    Acura , or I should say Honda ,has been hood-winking their customer base for a long time. Interior noise complaints are not a hard or expensive fix, but year after year , Honda does nothing about it. Their decades old decision to drop model names for letters(Acura) has been a dismal failure and their styling department , particularly Acuras (assuming they even have one) is just awful. They chose to ignore this and more year after year.
    They are not the darlings they once were.

  • avatar
    JohnTaurus_3.0_AX4N

    A different point of view, perhaps Honda needed to fix Honda first. The new Civic and CR-V are proof they are trying.

    This reminds me of when Ford built the bloated 4th gen Taurus, it was outdated and had lost its way since earlier generations. The same with the late 00s Focus. The stupid Cologne V-6 in the Mustang. The awful FWD minivans.

    They turned themselves around, invested heavily in new product and it paid off. Fusion transitioned from Taurus into a real competitive midsize sedan that sells well. Although its now due for an overhaul, we got the current Euro Focus again. The Escape and Mustang outclass their previous versions by a country mile. Explorer is a segment sales leader again.

    NOW Lincoln is showing signs of life: their fleet, while not perfect, are more competitive than they have been in a long time. Sales and satisfaction scores are climbing. the former less quicly than the latter, but an improvement is an improvement.

    It was just a few years ago where I read that “Honda’s best product is the Oddyssy, and that’s sad” or something to that effect. Now, we have an excellent new Civic and better CUVs, even a well-done makeover on the Ridgeline.

    Just as Ford seemed to not be giving Lincoln what it really needed until it got its core brand in order, maybe Honda will do the same. Perhaps their newfound hope will spread to Acura before long.

    Another example: Nissan revamped itself before breathing new life in Infiniti starting with the G35.

    • 0 avatar
      jimmyy

      In large east and west coast cities, Honda and Toyota outsells Ford by large margins. The reason is simple. Reliability and resale.

      Ford products are a big seller in flyover country where the grill design, the body lines, or DLO is more important then reliability and resale.

      • 0 avatar
        JohnTaurus_3.0_AX4N

        And none of that has anything to do with my point.

        My parents 2012 Taurus (owned since 2012) that has had 0 reliability issues as it is rapidly approaching 100k seems to not lend credence to your broad generalizations, but at least I read your comment and actually responded to what you said instead of rambling about something totally unrelated.

      • 0 avatar

        “Ford products are a big seller in flyover country where the grill design, the body lines, or DLO is more important then reliability and resale.”

        You can Europe and UK to this list too.

      • 0 avatar
        George B

        Jimmyy, Ford has a much larger dealer network in rural America than Toyota or Honda. The F-150, Fusion, and Escape are class-competitive vehicles that are good enough to keep rural customers from driving to the city to buy a Toyota or Honda.

    • 0 avatar
      Eyeflyistheeye

      You might be on to something, John.

      Acura lost its way when they started selling cars developed by their American marketing arm instead of Honda’s best products from Japan.

      Aside from the fact Ford indirectly pays my bills since I work with a fleet of Ford products, one reason I’ve been cheering for them is that they have been trying to invest in product. It’s a pity that they seem to be letting the Fiesta and Focus wither, while they will never be best-sellers in North America, they’ve done the important job of getting people who wouldn’t consider Ford to buy Fords.

    • 0 avatar
      slap

      “This reminds me of when Ford built the bloated 4th gen Taurus, it was outdated and had lost its way since earlier generations.”

      It was the 3rd generation Taurus/Sable. The 4th gen came out in 2000, and was a facelift of the 3rd, with other minor changes that made it much better. I had a 3rd gen, and still have a 4th gen – it is a far, far better car than the 3rd gen, and has been very reliable and is at 250K miles.

  • avatar
    George B

    My theory is that internet information and leasing has killed the market for near-luxury cars based on mass market models. If a consumer wants prestige, there is no reason to buy an Acura, Lincoln, etc. Consumers either pay less for a nice enough Honda or Ford or they pay more to lease a BMW. There is no room left for in between brands no matter what Acura or Lincoln do. GM throws lots of money and unique RWD platforms at Cadillac, but consumers no longer associate prestige with Cadillac.

  • avatar
    Eyeflyistheeye

    What does Acura have to offer anymore?

    It’s obvious no luxury leaser gives a flip about reliability, and Acura doesn’t even have the reliability card any more by cynically using the awful ZF 9-speed to differentiate the MDX and TLX from its Pilot and Accord brethren.

  • avatar
    e30gator

    Damn. What’s wrong with Nissan? I’ve been looking at New Pathfinders. Any idea?

    • 0 avatar
      OldManPants

      “What’s wrong with Nissan?”

      Same as everything else of and for Boomers: CAFE, the osteoporosis of automobiles.

      The more more bent we become, the more bent we become.

  • avatar
    GeneralMalaise

    Very happy Fiat and MB owner here. Shoppers need to smarten up and do their homework. And a test drive and detailed inspection (use a written checklist, if need be) is critical and a thing that needs to be performed sans distractions.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      “inspection” and “maintenance” isn’t going to make poorly-engineered parts and systems not fail.

      • 0 avatar
        GeneralMalaise

        Most of the parts and systems are manufactured by other companies and used by all the different automakers. Consumer Reports is not the Supreme Arbiter by any stretch. I base my satisfaction on my personal experience with a carmaker, the experience of other owners I know and respect and – to a certain extent – the musings of a few “car guy writers”. I find little to value in the opinions of some yohan commenter at an autoblog.

  • avatar
    jthorner

    I’m still very pleased with our 2006 Acura TSX which we purchased brand new and have used regularly every since. Nothing Acura offers today is an appealing replacement.

    • 0 avatar
      mechaman

      I think that’s the last (maybe the ’07) Acura series that I gave serious thought to .. but figured I might save a few bucks and look at Accords. If a ‘unicorn’ had come along, though…

  • avatar
    mechaman

    Quite a fall for The Company That Couldn’t Fail At Anything…I just never really understood the latest Acura models. I see Hondas, just badged and luxed up. And less appealing than earlier versions.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      DeLorenzo ran a piece a couple months ago talking about some emails he received “from within” the car companies.

      http://www.autoextremist.com/current/?currentPage=8

      One of them stands out:

      “I have tried and tried to get my engineering team to understand what we’re lacking when it comes to delivering cars that really resonate. We just spent five years developing a new sports car but as you predicted a couple of years ago, it has done nothing for the rest of our lineup. In other words, there’s no “halo” effect going on here. When I ask the engineering team to dig deep down and find the “soul” of our cars, they come back with another technical package of gizmos, which is about as far away from the point as we can get. Right now we’re nowhere and I am getting worried, because if we can’t break through this stagnant state, I’m afraid the entire brand is in serious jeopardy. ”

      Gotta be somebody at Acura.

  • avatar
    OldManPants

    Toyota has already sold more Avalons from Jan. through Nov. this year (43,029) than all the RL/RLXs sold since and including 2006 (39,782).

    Why is there no Honda Avalon, a flagship above the Accord but still with the revered H on the front?

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      Because Honda product management is slightly dysfunctional. They rely too much on their core products and pull the plug on the product they try out but doesn’t meet expectations which ends up being popular in the aftermarket (S2000, Element, various hybrids, Crosstour). If “midsize” trucks were not “coming back” I’d wager Ridgeline would be gone too, despite its profitability it never met targets. Toyota goes into smaller niches and dominates them, Honda sticks its toes in the water and frequently pulls back out in a few model years.

    • 0 avatar
      mechaman

      Maybe because they think it would be seen as just a bigger Accord?

  • avatar
    Jacob

    Acura’s long term strategy has been self-contradicting. Remember when they killed the RSX/Integra under the excuse of the need to move upmarket? Well, they killed the RSX but they never really took the rest of the brand upmarket. Remember the sad story of the generic-looking, widely unloved and unnoticed, under-powered, overpriced, vanilla soap bar shaped car known as the Acura RL? And in the last few year, they make a u-turn and bring us a new Acura ILX which was nothing but a Civic reski.

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