UAW Includes Language in Newest Contract About Gender Identity

Really, you don't understand this gender identity stuff? Gee, I kind of figured that out when you focused on what's between people's legs (versus their ears), and went straight for the restroom fear-mongering. I'm not sure why I'm wasting my time, or the bytes on this, but here goes. Despite living in a rather conservative community and working in a conservative industry, I've had the pleasure of knowing and working with people at all points along the gender spectrum (and you very well may have too, but you don't necessarily know it). I've known a delightful young person who appears female, was born with a vagina, but is chromosonally XY. Likewise, I've met a very handsome person who appears male, was born with a penis, but is XX. Now, please tell me which restroom they should use, based on your seemingly logical rules? As a wise woman once told me, "You need to treat folks like human beings, not humans DOING."

Yes, you are off base. You are going to draw a line? It is not up to you to draw a line. I guess that the religiosity of Americans makes them so damn prudish. What others do has no bearing on you. If others offend you, look the other way. But, you do not have the right to try and discriminate against others, no matter how you are offended.

Thing is if you have used a public restroom with more than one stall you have already dealt with transfolk. Because just like everyone else they want to pee and/or poo in peace and quiet. With the absolute minimum of drama P.S. There are plenty of people chromosome-wise who are XXY or have other Intersex conditions (such as Androgen insensitivity syndrome). Where do they go to do their bathroom business?

@BuzzDog “You need to treat folks like human beings, not humans DOING.” Adolf, relax, I'm fine with what you're DOING.

That's the way I see it. Gay people have the freedoms to act, dress, think, and f### like their opposite sex as openly as they want. It's like they walk and talk like a duck, and its not enough. They want to actually be a duck. It doesn't make a difference anyway, its a biological thing, you can change it as much as you can change your height. Hell, the only place where that distinction makes a difference in today's society is in your example of the bathrooms, and I'm all for getting rid of that anyway.

"You either have a penis or a vagina." Not necessarily. Both organs and chromosomes come in lots of different combos. Not everyone is XX or XY (people may have extra, missing, or different chromosomes), and not everyone who is one of those combinations develops in the most common way for those chromosomes.

@Compaq Deskpro CD, we live in wondrous times in America. Look for the legalization of pedophilia and incest before January 20, 2017. Whole lotta "love" going on there too. Ahhhh, America. Land of the free and home of the brave.......

@dal20402 Caitlin and Chaz.....

@Compaq Deskpro Overlooking the fact that you seem to have confused LGBT and trans (apparently there's a lot of animosity between the two groups), you can change your height. Haven't you seen Gattaca? Leg-lengthening is a real thing. HDC: Slippery slope fallacy.

@Drzhivago138 Dr z, I agree. I will not be surprised when NAMBLA and NAWGLA start advertising freely on college campuses to attract the like-minded. Hey, on today's college campuses they have contact points for sugar-daddies to meet coeds, don't you know? Whole lotta love, Dr z, whole lotta love. "All you need is love. All you need is love. All you need is love, love. Love is all you need. Love is all you need. Love is all you need."

@highdesertcat Care to give any reputable sources that say when those things will happen?

@highdesertcat Consenting adults are consenting? I get you're arguing that because two consenting adults have a relationship you have a disdain for that we're suddenly going to authorize children to have sexual relationships they can't consent to in the name of liberalism. Once again, you miss the point. It's about consenting adults making conscious decisions about their lives. But it seems your cavalry just isn't coming..

@highdesertcat Being able to equate a consensual adult relationship with child rape because you somehow see them as equally "deviant" displays a complete lack of innate morality. Disgusting.

@highdesertcat http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/world/asia/us-soldiers-told-to-ignore-afghan-allies-abuse-of-boys.html?smid=fb-share You can't get any more progressive than by destroying military careers of soldiers that defend boys against being raped by Muslims.

@highdesertcat CJ, I saw that article earlier this morning and fought the urge to post it in my comment. I'm glad you did. My youngest son was stationed in Afghanistan and was aware that this was happening, along with the raping of young girls and women. No US troops involved. A technique more effective than waterboarding. Even back in 2009, 2010, 2011, and 2012, prior to his retirement from the US Army, the US forces were instructed to leave well enough alone. It was tough for someone with what used to be widely-accepted American values of decency. This happens in Africa all the time but the US is not involved in Africa, nor is the US involved in Iraq or Afghanistan any longer. O'b*m*'s War (OW!) is now more one-dimensional, as in air-to-ground.

@highdesertcat Ok, CJ, being the resident right-wing kook gets you some leeway but at some point you need to be told to stick a sock in it. Your story you posted is tragic and arguably an issue of why we need to remember human rights are universal since these boys are being raped against their will with coercion. But if you really want to equate a liberal point of view with child rape you've lost any semblance of honesty and valor. You're just a degenerate who lives to taunt and tease with no real value as a person or an intellectual. I've learned to brush off most of your insane views but somebody just needs to point out you're an irrational and undeserving poster at this point.

@highdesertcat HDC- Do you really think our military isn't involved in Africa? I served for almost 4 years and saw combat, but not in Iraq or inside the country of Afghanistan.

@highdesertcat bbal, you and I know that the US is involved in other conflicts, but the official policy is Clintonesque: deny, deny, deny. That's the official guidance provided for OW! All I can say is, I'm glad none of my kin is involved in this covert and clandestine war that O has embarked on with his war. My 25-yo grand daughter's husband is an F-16 Instructor Pilot, heavily involved in training pilots (of several nations) in air-to-ground tactics. This is why the insertion of Russia's Air Force in Syria, Iraq and Lebanon is such a concern for the US aviators because of the exit routes pilots used to fly after splashing their targets.

@highdesertcat I'm with CJ, there's not a dime's difference between the two in my book either. Sex is either between a man and a woman as biology and our creator intended or it's not. That distinction has been such a cornerstone of Christian civilization as to be taken for granted for centuries. If reasoning as sound as YOLO and calling the opposition bigots can tear that down, and in less than one generation it did, how long do you think your brand new distinction between adults and children is going to last? Between adults and relatives? Between adults and animals? We live in interesting times. I would prefer if they did not get any more interesting.

@highdesertcat Ah yes, the 'man and his lawnmower' argument. Newsflash, homosexuality was common and accepted in various christian societies until a few hundred years ago. It just wasn't allowed equivalent rights. More than a few historical leaders and church leaders have been homosexuals. The argument that somehow consenting adults is going to get turned into inanimate objects or child abuse is silly. Do you really think that or are you just trying to pretend there is some equivalence? I honestly have to question that since homosexuals have existed since the beginning of time and we know with some certainty it is a biological issue so if you're some kind of strict creationist, why would god make the mentally ill? It's all so silly at it's core and this argument that somehow it's all going to be made legal because gay people can marry now (instead of just have unofficial relationships) that we'll be marrying lawnmowers soon shows the ignorance in the crowd.

@highdesertcat You are correct. It took awhile to get my Combat Infantry Badge because many of the conflicts I "assisted" with weren't qualifying conflicts.

@highdesertcat New Scramble for Africa. http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/empire/newscrambleforafrica/2014/07/new-scramble-africa-2014723203324932466.html Btw in general, whats happening with the child rape is abhorrent no matter the ideology. The administration is very good at sticking its nose where it does not belong and fundamentally changing everything, I'd like to see it say something constructive on this matter instead of ignoring it.

@highdesertcat Dan, see my earlier comment. We live in wondrous times in America.

@highdesertcat Why must people create a slippery slope that doesn't exist?

@highdesertcat "You can’t get any more progressive than by destroying military careers of soldiers that defend boys against being raped by Muslims." What a bizarre non-sequitur response. What you linked has nothing to do with "progressive" or "liberal" anything, if you think the officers who directly authorized this behavior were bleeding hearts, or it wouldn't have happened under a conservative president, you're deluded. It's universally evil behavior which is very unfortunately being accepted in the midst of an impossibly bad situation with no potential positive outcome. "Deviations" from normality are not created equal: Some adults want to have sex with other adults in costumes or while covered in food; neither are a problem as long as I'm not involved. Other people want to have sex with people who can't or don't consent; that's a big problem indeed. None of this has anything to do with being on one team or tribe versus another, it's about basic human decency and tangible effects. Again, if you equate two people who cannot breed wanting to be romantic with the destruction of an individual through what is effectively torture, I do not believe you have an an internal morality. You may serve well your family and others in your direct circle, but you're still a psychopath who must be told right from wrong, rather than being able to feel this innately. In other words, HDC, CJ, were either of you born in Afghanistan, I have to believe you would absolutely be willing to have sex slaves, or tell your children to behead people on YouTube, because it would be what you've seen and experienced throughout your life, and learned to be just and righteous, and of course what your elders have taught you must be true. Just as you're able to find plenty of people from these cultures who are reasonable enough to flee such circumstances, there are plenty who swallow what they're told and know in their heart it's the only truth. You two are very open about being the latter. EDIT: Dan too, imagine how vociferously you'd be supporting the creation of a worldwide caliphate were you raised in a Muslim society!

@highdesertcat 28-Cars-Later, my understanding is that the policy of the current administration re: interference is only in support of the legacy it is trying to create. Like my son, many dedicated Regimental senior officers are voluntarily retiring at first opportunity. DA told my son that he would be promoted to O-6 if he would stay for another three years. My son took O-5 at 22 years and went to work as a Senior Supervisor Agent for the Border Patrol at the GS-12 level, instead. Lotta good men (and women) leaving the US armed forces, just doin' time until they're eligible for retirement. Retired On Active Duty (ROAD).

@highdesertcat Dan, it's so awesome that you brought up the subject of Christianity and "our" creator as the proper model of sexual conduct. May I refer you to the story of Lot and his daughters? Oh, it's such a read. He offers up his own daughters for rape to save the grown men in his company such a fate, and later engages in incest with them to keep his genetic line going because someone had the omnipotent foresight to turn his wife into a pillar of salt. And if that's too controversial, let's think 0.5 seconds about how 6 billion people sprung from Adam and Eve. Your concern about losing the distinction "between adults and relatives"? Yeah, apparently we've been there. Don't worry about it, the big guy has you covered. This wasn't long after your god supposedly wiped out all of humanity for misbehavior, so 1) apparently times were even MORE interesting in Genesis than they are now, and 2) anyone who cherry picks Christian doctrine and scripture to grandstand about sexual morality between legally consenting adults gets zero credibility in my book.

@highdesertcat No I don't think it's going to stop there, because it already didn't stop there. Look at what else happened in that same historical blink of an eye that turned gay OK. The heterosexual hookup culture exploded at the same time. The divorce rate doubled. The marriage rate halved. The illegitimacy rate quadrupled. The internet is a third pornography. I don't blame homosexuals. I don't particularly dislike homosexuals. I certainly don't envy them. But I don't see a lot of good in this revolution and the homosexuality push is the most assertive public face of it.

@highdesertcat Dan, HDC, CJ, I'm honestly curious now, who do you think you'd be if you were born in rural Afghanistan, 1955? Do you think you would sense in your gut that something is wrong, and eventually question the teachings of those who raised you? Would you migrate to a western country to escape what we consider here to be massive crimes against humanity? Or would you have faith in what you learned to be true, and work to spread this truth if this was the path you knew would lead to your glorious afterlife?

@highdesertcat Just imagine how many effing VW posts there'd be if we didn't have homos and benders to distract us. Thanks, homos and benders!

@highdesertcat "Dan, HDC, CJ, I’m honestly curious now, who do you think you’d be if you were born in rural Afghanistan, 1955?" I'd be thirty years dead in all likelihood. But failing that, I wouldn't be any happier to throw away my father's heritage there than I am here. Buried bombs and veiled ladies it'd be. What an awful thought that is.

@highdesertcat Dan, as a conservative Lutheran I have to say: You're committing the slippery slope fallacy once again. Please stop. You're just making Christianity look bad. "The homosexuals" are not out to destroy us. There's really no way to measure what percentage of the Internet is porn, but's it's certainly not 1/3rd. What the Bible has to say shouldn't have any bearing in a secular society. Jesus Himself instituted the seperation between church and state. And no, not all of the Founding Fathers were Christian, either.

@highdesertcat "Buried bombs and veiled ladies it’d be. What an awful thought that is." Dan, this is a good honest answer, which I appreciate. Rural Afghanistan, 1955 was stretching a bit, I'll admit. Let's say you're between 25-50 living in Riyadh today, do you look around you and feel a knot in your stomach, and dream of living anywhere else, or do you go to watch the beheading/crucifixion and throw stones because he insulted Islam?

Once businesses go beyond a certain size, "good will and common sense" go out the window. You don't reach the corner office at a multi-billion-dollar company by being a good person; you just won't be competitive. One thing that's very good about unions is that they, unlike a single worker, have the institutional muscle to go toe-to-toe with the battalion of lawyers and HR professionals that very large employers employ to figure out ever more ways to extract more work from workers and pay them less for doing it.

Big Al from Oz - "common sense" just gets people into trouble. It was once common to use slaves, wipe out aboriginal cultures, stone to death adulteresses,and to persecute gays. What is "common" among a tribe, group, population, country etc. has very little to do with what is fair, just, and morally right. Case in point, those in ISIL think it is "common sense" to execute heretics, and any religion that is not theirs.

I am curious as to what rights the labor (or in this case, labour) laws of Australia guarantee for its citizens. I don't want to sound overly confrontational here. I am genuinely interested in the laws of other countries. Thanks!

Thanx, mfgreen40. I just try to call them like I see them. That, and I try to be fact driven rather than agenda driven. Sometimes gets me in trouble though, especially with those who like to revert to name-calling whenever they disagree with your position. But I guess that comes with the territory when one dares to offer opinions. Not all of those who think that they are part of the B&B actually are, unfortunately. But those who are make it worth putting up with non sequiturs and ad hominem attacks from the few. And part of the irony is that Cameron Aubernon is one of my favorite writers on TTAC, at the top tier occupied only by Jack Baruth and a couple of others, whom I won't name, so as not to offend some who are above average (and whom I respect also) but whom I don't consider to be at the highest level. TTAC is somewhat unique in the sense that the ratio of intelligent comment and truly humorous comment to dreck is fairly high when compared to the Net and to the world as a whole. There are several among the staff writers and among the B&B whom I wish I was able to know and interact with in real life. But since geographics preclude that, being able to know and interact with them here is the next best thing. I just read an article about a one hundred year old man who still actively participates in track and field events, and who holds several age group world records. Kind of inspiring to me, but it also means that although I have already earned old geezer status in life, I may still be around for a while longer to do as was once said was the mission of good journalists, to comfort the afflicted and to afflict the comfortable. Beats sitting around and doing nothing, or sitting around reading things like TTAC and just grumbling to myself. My life is enriched by the interactions with, and input of, some of the B&B. And apparently others feel the same way, which is likely the energy source for this community being as remarkably unique as it is.

VolandoBajo - great post. This is a great site with above average intelligence. There are many whom I have great respect for and you are one of them.

@VolandoBajo Sorry, I wanted to reply to you earlier because your well-spoken rant is still wrong on a few issues but a breathe of fresh air by comparison to some others. I had two things to address: First off it's 3.8% according to Gallup, noting that homosexuality is still a very hidden subject for many Americans regardless of the gains 10% isn't really that crazy a number, assuming even that the full-total is only 50% over the admitted number (essentially a 1/3rd are still hidden) that would peg them at 5.7% as strict only-homosexual. Meaning that 4.3% could be strongly leaning towards Bi/Homosexual partnering. So 2% is completely incorrect and Gallup is pretty trustworthy. Though Americans wildly overestimate at 1-in-4. Second, I searched high and low on El Goog for this instance of crossdressing in New Jersey and it appears to have had zero to do with the trans community and instead was based around women's fashion and feminism. Hell, I even cited fox news on this crazy topic...But more to the point, social engineering is effective and has been done since the beginning of time. It's just now that you're too old to be manipulated so easily you're uneasy about others manipulating children away from your preferences. I grew up in a generation that was taught how racism was truly awful, for most of the older B&B here it was barely touched on. My generation is the least racist generation in America for that reason alone. I agree that we need to be careful how we wield that power and for what use but I teach college on US Government, you're not going to stop me from my appointed goals, to put it bluntly. :) http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/04/13/nj-school-cancels-cross-dressing-fashion-complaints/ http://www.gallup.com/poll/183383/americans-greatly-overestimate-percent-gay-lesbian.aspx

@Xeranar Thank you for your research on the subjects I brought up. As to percentages, I doubt that we are able to arrive at a definitive percentage...at best, we have conflicting methodologies, some of whose conclusions can be discounted as being biased, and others that differ, but which cannot be discerned as being the correct one, when others seemingly as valid arrive at different numbers. Still, it is/was good to have some discussion about the possible range of percentages, even if we could not arrive at a final agreement. Even informed differences are better than blind acceptance of what are probably biased and widely misunderstood percentages. And as you and others point out, that doesn't change the fact that whatever the percentage, those who fall within still face difficulties, and deserve inherent rights, even if the majority disagrees with their path. That is part of the American way...that there be no "tyranny of the majority" at the expense of minority rights. But I especially appreciate your expanding on the crossdressing experiment. Your information is more complete than mine was. Mine was based on the fact that my wife knows and is friends with a woman who was a school nurse when this was going on, and who was disturbed by the amount of emotional turmoil it was causing to young children, some of them less than ten years old. It seemed as if it was part of a broader agenda, and part of one designed to force acceptance of cross-dressing, but the article you cited clearly shows that while that may have been someone's hidden agenda, it was couched in different terms, and was much narrower in its application than I had believed. I am relieved both that calmer heads prevailed, and that there was not a concerted effort to push a broad social agenda that was behind this. While my beliefs about the supposed inevitability of homosexuality do not match those of many people, still I have known and had friends, some of them close friends, from among the homosexual community. One in particular was a close friend of my ex-wife's best female friend, and there was many an evening we would all hang out and cook a special weekend meal, and sit around and watch a movie together, or just engage in good conversation on a variety of subjects. Sadly, his penchant for gay relationships with strangers overlapped with his difficulties with alcohol as a result of his conflicted feelings, and it led to his being beaten to death in a back alley near a Wall Street bar on weekend evening. A sad and premature end to the life of a very talented and interesting individual. And I would hope that my son was not gay, but primarily because it would be an additional heavy burden to carry in his life, but I would not add to it by rejecting him. He is still the same talented, active and interesting individual, whether he marries and perhaps has children, remains a bachelor, or ends up choosing the gay lifestyle. I do believe that a percentage of gay people end up in that life style as a result of conditioning, rather than destiny, but that doesn't change the fact that they have the right to choose their path. I do think that others should have the right to try to help others who may want to try to leave that lifestyle, and they should be entitled to their free speech rights to do so, but that does not mean that I feel that homosexuality should be penalized or stigmatized in any way. It is a hard enough lifestyle as it is. I only feel that other people should also be free to dissent from the acceptance of such a lifestyle, as long as they do not seek to harm or limit the rights of such people. But I also don't feel that people who as a matter of conscience are opposed to supporting homosexuality should be compelled by force of law to participate in activities endorsing such a lifestyle. Our country, and its citizens, should be openminded enough to be able to accommodate both those in the homosexual lifestyle, and those who chose to oppose it on principle, provided forceful coercion is not involved. But of course, this is modern America, and the tendency is to believe that either you are with us or against us. On both sides...I know...I am pressured by friends who are opposed to homosexuality in principle to stand against it on all fronts, and am pressured by homosexuals I know or encounter to either push for its acceptance, or be considered an enemy of their freedom. Neither is true, but too many people can't grasp the simple concepts behind that political and social stance of tolerance for all non-violent, non-coercive viewpoints across the spectrum. It is always good, however, to have clarifying acts added to skeletal information, even if it is my skeletal information that is being fleshed out.