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Honda broadcasted Wednesday night its all-new, 10th-generation Civic that’s longer, lower and wider than the current model and looks nothing like the cheap car I drove through college.
The 2016 Honda Civic will sport a 2-liter or 1.5-liter turbocharged engine up front, leather seats in the middle and fastback styling at the rear for a full about-face from its current model. Most models will be mated to a continuously variable automatic transmission, although a six-speed manual will be available at the base, LX trim with the naturally aspirated 2-liter mill. Honda will also offer a sportier Civic Si, ahead of a Type R model — which will be the first time that model will be sold in the U.S.
The car is two inches wider, one inch lower and its wheelbase is 1.2 inches longer than the outgoing model. Honda didn’t say how much the car would cost when it goes on sale later this year.
Up front, the car sports a grille that looks familiar (Acura via Honda Accord) and “boomerang” tail lamps in the back. The Civic Coupe, which will be unveiled later, is likely to carry most of the fastback styling from the sedan.
Starting with the LX and EX models, Honda will stuff a 2-liter four up front, and offer a manual transmission only on the base LX trim. EX-T, EX-L and Touring trims will receive the 1.5-liter turbocharged four with direct injection mated to a CVT. Honda didn’t specify the output of either mill, but the force-fed four will probably range between 170 horsepower and 180 horsepower.
According to Honda, the incoming Civic will be 25 percent stiffer and 68 pounds lighter than the outgoing model. A revised multi-link suspension is mounted to a new rear subframe and brake-assisted torque vectoring will help improve handling. The Civic will also sport hydraulic bushings to improve road manners.
Inside, the car will add 3.7 cubes of interior space thanks to a slightly stretched wheelbase, including two additional inches of rear legroom. Honda added more space in the trunk, which now accommodates 14.3 cubic feet of cargo.
The Civic can also be had with leather hides, dual-zone climate control, a 7-inch touchscreen and all the tach you can handle.
“longer, lower and wider”
That should help HR-V sales.
And Honda will wonder why old people have stopped buying the Civic.
Remember back in the old days when sedans had 6 inches of ground clearance? You know, back when they were popular?
That’s HR-V territory now.
Exactly and thank you.
Good old days? 1991 Camry height: 4ft 6.1in. 2015 Camry height: 4ft 9.9in
1993 Honda Civic height(owned one, driver’s seat practically on the floor pan): 4ft 2.7in, 2015 Civic: 4ft 8.5in, 2016 Civic 4ft 7.5in (I assume).
Maybe you guys only drove Town Cars and Crown Vics.
If I want ride height, I’ll buy the CUV. Keep sedans lower, they are tall enough as is.
I’m guessing Honda won’t be upset if the old folks move onto the CR-V, the profit margins are probably better.
> Maybe you guys only drove Town Cars and Crown Vics.
Ah, the Lincoln Mob Car. Every time I see one of these battleships on the road, I could swear I’ve seen an Exxon truck driving right behind it.
Really? My 1990 Accord sat about as low as a sports car. If anything, cars today are much taller. The Taurus and MKS are practically as tall as SUVs. The only tall sedan from the 90s was maybe the Legacy.
I SUSpect you’re right.
The Lacrosse and XTS are also ridic tall. Impala is kind of tall.
It’s gone it’s gone it’s gone! The bi-level instrument cluster is gone!
This is a good turnaround from the current (to me) eyesore. Two liter stick also sounds great.
I know that millions of folks dont agree with me but the last gen was the most un-aesthetically pleasing car I have ever seen inside and out.
Compared to the 2012, the 2015 is a little gem. I do like the rear end light treatment on the current model. And it’s certainly better than the ugly new Corolla.
Thank you for saying that, Chocolatedeath.
I would be out of my mind, and retain zero credibility, if I didn’t recognize the value of a Honda Civic. But g-d I want to retch every time i see a current one.
And I don’t want to hate. I am genuinely happy this looks like the Civic is back in the game. I like great cars. I hope this is one of them.
“And I don’t want to hate. I am genuinely happy this looks like the Civic is back in the game. I like great cars. I hope this is one of them.”
Honda has a talent for generating mixed feelings. I, too, want them to succeed but felt frustrated by them in the past. This Civic looks promising.
Actually, love or hate is a good thing for Honda. Indifference would be the real killer.
The stick with the 2.0 sounds like the way to go except for the fixed rear seat. This was mentioned in the Honda press release where the split rear seat was only in LX and higher trim levels while the stick is only available in lowest trim level.
Why is the stick only in the poverty trim?
Presumably they figure if you want a higher trim stick you’ll go Si or CTR. They’re probably not wrong.
Agreed. If I were Civic shopping, I would be looking at the Si with a stick. Also, as a family of 3, a split folding rear seat is important to me.
But I am not Civic shopping, and the Mazda3 I have now works very well for a family of 3.
That 2-level instrumentation was hideous. But I am not sold on this one either. This reminds me a 1985 child “space adventure” toy
We owned a Gen 8 for 4 years until it was rear ended by some kid who forgot how to use his brakes on a freeway offramp. Trust me, as hideous as you think the bi-level cluster is- it’s even worse looking at the thing every day for four years. I’m totally happy they decided to use the new cluster, oversized tach or no.
“It’s gone it’s gone it’s gone! The bi-level instrument cluster is gone!”
This is true, but they still have the digital speedo with oversized tach, and that is a setup I don’t like. Digital speedometers don’t show the linear continuous buildup of speed the way an analog needle does, and the big tach is a bit silly. This is a non-Si Civic after all, is it really that interesting to see what rpm the CVT is pegging the engine to at any given moment?
Sigh. I guess you can’t get everything 30-mile fetch. And it will likely confuse people into thinking it’s measuring speed, until they get used to it. Come to think of it, i’d like to know how people reacted to that thing. Perhaps it’s supposed to help fuel economy given most drivers want to be ‘decent’ and keep the needle from moving too fast?
I don’t need my eyes for RPM. Only my ears.
Digital speedo is what? – 1990. What a shame. I am so glad that I don’t need a car right now.
Now all Honda needs to do is to swap out the intelligence-insulting digital speedometer display for proper gauges, and they’re good.
Clear speed display is for dummies. Oh, wait a minute. There is nothing wrong with knowing your exact speed at all times. I’ll leave the approximation of the, often inaccurate, analog speedometers to the self-appointed smart people. Anyone else here never look at the analog speedometer when driving cars that have both?
A digital speedometer will give you a precise number. An analog speedometer (or clock for that matter) will give you a sense of where you occupy time and space. There’s a subtle difference.
I have an analogy dash and a digital dash, and both are perfectly effective at telling me my speed. I prefer the analog’s aesthetic but functionally theyre the same
I love digital speedometers. I’ve never gotten the hate for them. I can understand wanting an Analog tachometer but digital speedos are simply better. That’s one of the few things I truly miss about my 98 DeVille.
This question interests me as I think it says something significant about visual information processing in the brain.
Like an analog watch, an analog gauge seems to play to survival-honed recognition of spatial positioning that may be more immediately processed by cognitive centers, perhaps even bypassing “cognition”, than can the interpretive medium of numbers processing.
The danger sensing ability in glancing at a too-late/high indication by watch hands or gauge needles seems to me more immediate than the extra split-second required to process numeric information.
So perhaps analog indicators play to more primitive and thus faster brain pathways than can digital. Or I’m just a geezer who has spent more time responding to analog than digital.
I didn’t much care for the look of the bi-level dash. Then I tried one out, found out I love the functionality (huge tach and speedo up where it’s an easy glance away from the windshield) and I bought it. I still love the dash.
When the bi-level dash came out, I think most people liked it. It’s a clever use of space, but I suppose after 10 years, drivers are looking for a change.
The interior looks like the current Camry. The exterior looks like a shortened Mazda 6 with a truncated trunk..(get it). Overall it looks way better inside and out and IMO the best looking Civic ever. I have been amazed over the past iterations that folks liked it but called the GM minivans hoovers. Yes it might make the ILX redundant and Acura should be pissed. Even though I am not the target as I dont really buy small cars, this is the only the second Honda that I would actually spend my own money on. The other being the new Pilot.
I think the best looking Civic was the honest little square one which came in so many formats, including AWD WagoVan.
http://www.mad4wheels.com/webpics/hires/00005763%20-%201985%20Honda%20Civic%20Si%20Sedan/1985_Honda_Civic_Si_Sedan_003_9648.jpg
I like the ’88 better. Horses for courses.
http://www.netcarshow.com/Honda-Civic_Sedan-1988-wallpaper.jpg
I like that one too. It was larger and more upscale. The gen 1 has it’s own charm too.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/1977_Honda_Civic_Front.jpg
Ah the 80s Civics were just an awesome improvement with each generation. My family’s first car in the US was a rusty ’82 Wagon, in brown, with a 5spd (neat “5speed” badge on the hatch). Next was an ’85 Sedan, a DX in sand/gold, also 5spd. Also bought used, a bit less rusty. After that was totaled in a rear end collision we bought a used ’90 Wagon, again in brown, with tweed cloth, but an automatic. We were all set to buy an ’87 Wagovan RT4wd with the neat 6spd manual from a private party but the buy took our deposit and sold it to someone else. The ’90 served us faithfully until 2007 when we bought those early Civics’ spiritual successor: a base model Honda Fit with a stick shift.
Were you born in Siberia, or in the US? Just curious. Also, are you fluent in Russian? Sounds like ya would be.
Born there, came here in ’92 when I was not quite 3 years old. My family was part of the “brain drain” wave that left in the early 90s when things really hit the fan, parents are both PhDs in scientific fields (physics and genetics). But we stayed in touch with relatives back home and visited them frequently, and I grew up speaking Russian in the house. My mom would buy me Russian textbooks in writing and literature so I both read and write completely freely to this day, in addition to speaking with barely a hint of an American accent. Likewise I speak English without any Russian accent, and by the time I was in second grade I could read/write/spell English better than most of my American friends.
Very cool, thanks. Sounds like they brought you up right, and now you have a valuable language skill!
Agree on the 88-92. The double wishbone suspension became universal across the entire Honda line. There just wasn’t anyone else even close in value and engineering in the late 80s.
I would have lol’ed for “looks like a trunkated Mazda 6”
I’m getting a little bit of Mazda from the front end, but my goodness does this look better than the outgoing model. They have taken it considerably upscale by applying the Acura beak and spangly lights.
Given this treatment has just been put onto the Pilot as well, it would indicate to me a new design direction for Acura is forthcoming. Or at least we can hope one is.
No manual unless you buy the poverty-spec stripper. Even Honda is drinking the CAFE kool-aid these days. Next!
Hopefully the Si will come with a stick.
Looking at the styling, which I like, I can’t help but think Honda should supersize it onto the Accord platform, make a true hatchback and use that for an updated CrossTour.
This car is a CAFE special. Longer and wider is what the new CAFE footprint grading scale will make every car. Fewer manual options go with elevated CAFE as well, as do turbocharged engines. Even if Obama didn’t give 150 billion dollars to funding terrorists, nukes to a country that has sworn to destroy us, propped up the oppressive Castros, freed terrorists to save a traitor while doing nothing for real Americans held by his new ally, fomented civil unrest, made a mockery of the rule of law, and destroyed our healthcare system; Obama’s CAFE changes would be reason enough for me to hate people that voted for him.
CJ is nothing if not consistent. The story is never about the car, the industry or driving. It’s always about his hatred for peace, health care, fuel efficiency and, of course, our President.
Well, I’m nowhere near as Foxed-up as CJ but I maintain the same about CAFE and car dimensions.
Somebody drank too much Kool Aide.
OH YEAH!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYbHceqc5wA
OH NO!
You do realize this site is about cars, not politics, don’t you?
The politics of the sheep are dictating what cars we can buy. Or didn’t you know that?
Yes, they are (to a point). But if I wanted to hear these tirades everytime we’re talking about cars, I’d just go have dinner with my grandpa some time.
You’re not helping your argument in the slightest by bringing it up at the drop of a hat and browbeating people who are tired of hearing it.
I’m 57 years old, and at no time in my life have I had such a wide variety of cars to choose from. The market is moving away from manual transmissions because Americans by and large don’t want them, and partially because they are less efficient. I do not see any evidence that CAFE has anything to do with the decline of the manual transmission.
Up until last year I was driving a manual, but I’m done with them. They’re just too slow shifting relative to what else is available now.
“Or didn’t you know that?”
No, we didn’t. You’re a special flower and the rest of us are just trying to catch up. We sheep may be slow learners, but given enough time and repetition I’m sure we will come around. Perfection is hard to achieve.
As for the state and direction of the automobile, cars are better now than they’ve ever been. Comparing the 1993 Civic I once owned to this 2016, I’m highly unconcerned.
“The politics of the sheep..
Irrelevant, sheep have way better voter turnout than Americans. If one shows up, they all do.
“Fewer manual options go with elevated CAFE as well, ”
Yes, because the new car buying public is crying out for manual transmissions and it is only the dreaded CAFE that is preventing them from being sold.
@CJ in SD- Don’t sugar-coat it. Say what you mean… ;-]
@Vo Go- Obama is not MY president, pal.
@Honda- I love this car. Can’t wait to drive the manual/2.0L.
If you are a citizen of the United States, the President of the United States is your President.
A few comments up, you were trying to tamp down the politics discussion, but now you’re throwing fire on it.
The United States of America is dead or in a seven-year coma.
In both cases, I’m trying to call people out on asshattery. I don’t agree with a lot of what our current Prez says or does, but if I saw him in the street, I’d still greet him as Mr. President. Saying “_____ isn’t my President” is the same line of thinking that lead to the formation of the CSA.
So in other words, all you had to offer was a dissenting opinion with a side of hypocrisy.
Considering that the CVT uses less fuel and provides a smoother driving experience, there’s no reason to put an old school 3 pedal drivetrain in it other than to provide a price leader, especially in the sedan.
I’d expect to see the manual transmission remain in the Si version, but that’s the only place.
There has been some confusion on this. Honda’s I.N. dealer system was suggesting that you can get the 6MT on the EX sedan (w/ turbo engine), but not on the EX-L or Touring trim. If that turns out to not be the case, you may still be able to get it on the coupe in the the higher trims, and certainly on the Si.
I think it’s a home run.
Left unmentioned here is perhaps the biggest news of all: This Civic reportedly will be built on a chopped version of the Accord platform, which means it will drive better than its rather numb predecessor.
“This Civic reportedly will be built on a chopped version of the Accord platform”
Wow. Any idea if this would be the platform (or related to the platform) used by the defunct Euro-spec Accord and the discontinued TSX? For those unfamiliar, they were trimmer the the U.S. Accord but larger than the current Civic and ILX.
If that is the case, the new Civic could/should handle well. And that does not bode well for the Acura ILX.
The ILX will be re-platformed sooner rather than later. In the big scheme of things, this needed to happen, and I’m glad they didn’t wait until the “luxury” brand could get their act together first.
Honda, y u no make liftback?
It kinda looks like it could be one. I think we’re heading that direction, as the increasing droopy roofs cause problems in creating a big enough trunk opening.
The current Fusion should have been a liftback. I hate the trunk opening. They have a liftback/hatch in other markets too.
I don’t know if Americans will ever get over the “hatch on things other than SUV is cheap” idea.
Bah. It’s not like I’m asking for the wagon. I already know that the Edge is a better Fusion wagon than the Fusion wagon. I just think the liftback makes the Fusion’s trunk easier to access. I bet it costs $12 more and Ford says forget it.
You’ll have the Edge Sport and you’ll like it!
And without a way to downsize the rims when I order the car…only 20s or 22s.
I loved how Dal found a set of take offs for the Edge Sport for $2750. Hahahaha. Hilarious.
There will be a full on 5-door version sometime next year.
@bball40dtw – I’m with you. This car (and the Fusion) are screaming for a liftback design, especially the Fusion hybrid with it’s pathetic battery consumed trunk space.
Speaking of the Ford Fusion, the chrome brows over the headlights remind me of the 2010-2012 Fusion. This iteration of Civic in my opinion is way too over-styled and big for a model traditionally associated with economy, frugality and practicality.
Damn, so you can’t buy a manual turbocharged Civic? :-(
I’m sure the Si will fix that.
here’s hoping for a 2.0t. I have no use for one, but I’ll find a reason to buy anyway :)
I think the Si will remain naturally aspirated, no?
Have you ever driven a turbocharged cvt? Seems like it would be amazing on a highway run. I’m curious as to how it would drive around town. Should be interesting.
They could just carry over the K24 into the new Si, but my money would be on a more heavily boosted version of the 1.5 turbo. They’re getting over 300hp from a 2.0L turbo in the Type-R, so they should be able to do significantly better than 174 with the 1.5L. Or it could be a lower output version of that 2.0L Type-R engine.
I see they learned their lesson from the Edsel and made the boomerang taillights point the correct way.
If they can keep the styling clean for the Si (not all nasty and be-winged like the Euro version) and offer FI with a stick, I’d take a real close look. I really like the way this one looks, but I hate CVT and I don’t want a base-engine stripper model.
Center console looks Ok but the instrument pane is again… not elegant
There may be a silver lining here. Many enthusiasts are turned off by all the unnecessary complexity that is in the “modern” car. By keeping a two liter and manual in the base version I wonder if Honda is trying to retain the fanboy base with a platform to grow from. Although manufactureres can be ver stupid at times Honda would be insane to throw away the street scene altogether. Meanwhile those of us turned off by the utter nonsense that the user interface, infotainment, etc. is becoming get a better CAR.
“Many enthusiasts”
That’s like maybe 3 sales a year. The quickest way to bankrupt a car company is to take advice from the B&B.
The ’12 did an effective job of keeping this B&B from relacing an ’06 with one. Maybe they should listen more.
The ’12 was cheap and simple, they were following the B&B advice and it blew up in their face.
I for one love my “cheap and simple” 2012 LX. 5spd manual, revvy and laser smooth port injected 1.8L engine. Suspension tuning on the softer side of things, and disproportionately roomy interior for the size. Large and comfortable seats too. All of that and a mere 2650lb curb weight, pretty amazing study in packaging efficiency, the problem is with NVH: this is a noisy car. That and the trunk is a bit smaller than I’d like (12.5 cu ft, on the smaller side of the class).
The technophobes are turned off. The honda enthusiasts are swapping in turbo engines and navi systems. Honda is only trying to cut into that aftermarket.
Oh look an Accord, I’m guessing it’s larger than a 7th gen accord
A Civic with leather and all is going to make the ILX an even tougher sell.
You bring up a good point on ILX, because it was just released it won’t have any of these changes will it?
ILX is on its 4th model year and just went through an MMC, so yeah, it will be at least another year before we see a re-design. I agree that this Civic will make it a tough sell, even more than it already is. Last time I checked the RSX (a car that only came as a 2-door) outsold it in the same number of years.
I’m wondering if HMC will just continue to build it as the old spec for several years and get more time out of the existing assembly line/parts and thus keep a nice margin as opposed to building on the new line an using newer parts.
All the current ILX needs is more sound deadening and a 2.0t with no price increase. Honda could probably drop that in for 2017, while they’re amortizing the rest of the platform cost.
I like it. Seems like a conscious decision by Honda not to drop another underwhelming model like the ’12. Looks to be encroaching on the midsize segment to some degree as well. Hey look, the two tier IP is finally gone!
The road noise will still probably be atrocious. Of all companies, Kia has that down pat. Hurry up Honda.
Honda has promised the new Civic will be the quietest in the class, I guess Kia is in there somewhere. I certainly don’t think Honda benchmarked anything Kia,
Honda takes a risk, lets see if it pays off.
It’s not that the design is risky, it’s just way less boring than the old car. I think the shape will have pretty universal appeal.
I was thinking more drivetrain technology more than footprint or styling.
The main reason I never took a serious look at the Civic these recent years of buying a lot of cars is that multi tiered dash.
I hated it.
It is gone…finally!
But they did make yet another mistake that will make other designs my choice…the screen.
There is no reason any screen today is set this low.
Every screen should be up near the top, if not on the top, of the dash.
My eyes should only have to glace away from the windows and mirrors to see what is happening navigation or back up camera wise.
This is simply a bad design.
I hate it on the family Touareg…I hate it here.
It’s a nice looking car–rare in this day and age–but I’m guessing the driver visibility out the back and the right side is going to be pretty compromised.
This looks so much better than the previous generation. I’m going to have to test drive an EX, as my Focus lease should be up right as this gets to dealers.
Anyone have more details on that redesigned front ‘strut’ suspension. Would this be Honda’s variant of the HiperStrut or did they finally add dual ball joints on that lower control arm? Methinks that the continuing lack of front double wishbones is still the norm. Therefore it handles adequately for all the ass**** that think ‘front struts is all you need’ :P.
68 pounds lighter is progress in the right direction, but GM managed to shave off 300 lbs from the 2016 Malibu. I mean cmon Honda, you’re still a fat pig.
Any chance you can add a higher lift cam to that 2.0L I-VTEC unit? I mean now you got economy and standard, like the old D-series. Whatever happened to ADVANCED VTEC? It seemed like you could mate a D15Z7 3 stage VTEC to a DOHC unit?
Less road noise is good, but, and this is a personal preference, I’ve never found the road noise in a Civic to be in issue, even in my current 2000 SiR.
Can’t wait to drop a K20Z1 with an LSD into it… It will still look stock on the outside.
“68 pounds lighter is progress in the right direction, but GM managed to shave off 300 lbs from the 2016 Malibu. I mean cmon Honda, you’re still a fat pig.”
That they were able to shave even 68lb is pretty impressive, last I checked the Civic is the lightest car in the compact segment as it is.
CAFE is trying to reduce carbon by setting standards to reduce it. I won’t go on about pollution and it’s effects. I will say, the American buyer is not fond of small cars. So, manufacturers are making them incrementally bigger to appeal to the consumer. A consumer that likes room and comfort. If they can do this, and meet CAFE standards, they sell cars. The new Civic is simply proof…and it looks great!
Those are 1990 Accord dimensions.
I’m pleased that Honda will offer a turbo. Boost isn’t really a must-have for me, but I’m curious to see if Honda can make a reliable turbocharged engine.
The manufacturing efficiency play is intriguing as well. No more debate about building hatchbacks or sedans. Everyone gets a sedatch. In previous automotive eras, failure of the sedatch would be guaranteed, but the OECD is obsessed with fuel-efficiency regulations. To reduce drag without excessive sedan rear overhang, the trunk lids will necessarily taper into boat tails……unless consumers actually bite the bullet and pay for hybrid complexity.
Hmmmm much uncertainty.
This looks so much better than the POS 2014 I just dumped early in my lease. Thank God they went back to a normal instrument cluster.
This looks MUCH better than the current Civic, aesthetically speaking, both inside & out.
With that said, it would be nice to be able to get a manual in each version of this, but thou doth naively protest too much, thou fear.
Also, pitching a general b!tch here:
“According to Honda, the incoming Civic will be 25 percent stiffer and 68 pounds lighter than the outgoing model.”
So many automakers state something similar about increased chassis stiffness of new models, in % terms, yet never actually report the new model’s actual Nm/degree of chassis stiffness, that I have grown skeptical of many such claims (rightly or wrongly).
If new models’ really did perpetually see such torsional rigidity improvements, most vehicles would be as stiff as Veyrons by now!
To me, it looks like yet another argument for buying a Golf. In long or short version. Still ugly inside and out (if less so), no hatch.
The market has been speaking very clearly as to what consumers think of VAG “German Engineering.” If you’re ‘in the know’ and pick the right drivetrain combination (2.5L I5 or ancient 8 valve 2.0, avoid DSG) you can get a solid driving, mostly trouble free car, but for the layman that got burned on an old 1.8T MkIV or Passat, VWs are a non-starter. Civics (and Corollas) are the simple, carefree choice.
The Golf always loses the argument because what looks good on paper turns into a lousy ownership experience.
The problem VW has w/ selling their wares is that there are so many former owners who still have VW memories and are willing to warn people they like off VW’s.
In a nutshell, buying a Golf would be the triumph of hope over experience.
Sajeev will be happy to see the DLO fail is gone.
LOVE. Really love everything about this. Fantastic looking car inside and out.
So Honda finally managed to bless the proletariat with a couple of DOHC engines on mainline Civics. They took the Accord Hybrid 2.0 liter, removed the Atkinson gubbins and Voila! 158 hp instead of 141.
I’m looking forward to trying both kinds, because this last Civic since 2006 is a complete yawn to drive. Maybe things will improve, but it’s a bit unlikely.
As for the people who long for SLA suspension, I have to laugh. Those old Hondas had about 4 inches of suspension travel as per usual Honda practice. Any old piece of cr*p suspension works for that limited travel, and as BMW, Porsche and everyone else showed, Macpherson strut is perfectly fine for really fast cars let alone pedestrian Hondas.
People get these strange ideas in their heads and never let it go as if it were some absolute truth. Lack of technical training is the culprit in my opinion. Might as well believe in astrological signs and magic.
Agreed. Double wish-bones of the past allowed automakers to design cars with low hoods and low cowls. Current pedestrian safety regs require higher hoods, taking away one advantage of double wishbones.
Macpherson struts’ vertical nature allows more leg room for the front occupants. And as proven by BMW and Porsche, struts can be tuned to handle quite well.
Well to be fair, those companies have shown that *with enough money spent on development focusing on performance* a strut setup can handle and ride great. At the price point of a Civic it’s hard to get that kind of advanced engineering done and you end up with more compromises. The double wishbones made compromises on ride and suspension travel and packaging in favor of grip and feel.
I think one of the great lessons lately in the auto industry is that engineers can force a compromised design to do just about anything with enough development in the proper direction. Hell we’ve seen the magicians in engineering at Jeep turn Fiat passenger cars into legitimate off-roaders. But you’ll still end up with a better one if you start wth a platform intended for that purpose like the Wrangler.
Every car maker has some feature that characterizes the best of them, and Hondas of a certain era were know for their double wishbones. Logic dictates that modern cars don’t need the added expense and complexity, but emotion (and some logic) says otherwise and I am not immune. I bought a 2012 TSX Wagon, which I think is the last in the Acura line-up to have them on all four corners.
“Double wish-bones of the past allowed automakers to design cars with low hoods and low cowls. Current pedestrian safety regs require higher hoods, taking away one advantage of double wishbones.”
Incorrect. You can have a high hood/high cowl double wishbone design by changing the attachment point of the strut from the lower control arm to the upper control arm. The suspension is still independent from the steering and you can have a seriously jacked up hood. I’d say there’s severe limitations on just how high you can go with a single lower control arm setup.
“Incorrect. You can have a high hood/high cowl double wishbone design by changing the attachment point of the strut from the lower control arm to the upper control arm.”
I’m not saying you can’t build or engineer double wishbones on a vehicle with a high hood and cowl. I’m saying a low hood and cowl was desirable and double wishbones made it possible… something struts could not do.
Now that pedestrian safety regs raised the hood and cowl, one advantage of double wishbones has been negated.
I’ve own(ed) several of the golden age hondas. 88 Prelude Si 4ws, 89 crx Si, 89 Legend Coupe, 86 civic si. Also drove some 93 and 95 accords that I borrowed from friends. All with dual wishbone, and all 5 spd sticks. In stock form they actually have some pretty great travel. While they are low cars, they feature 13s (86 civic) 14s (crx) and 15 (prelude/legend) inch wheels with way more space under the fenders than your typical modern car.
I had to drive the CRX and Legend all across job sites while I was working in construction. Mud, dirt roads, gravel, trails, you name it. I even drove the crx for miles at a time on ballast when I was working on a light rail project (the rocks that sleepers aka ties are laid for train tracks).
I don’t know exactly how Honda did it, but they achieved magic in that era (86ish to 99ish). I will continue to collect these cars. I also have an 88 starion turbo, and had an 87 mr2 and 92 bmw 750il. The Hondas win on polish, feel, and fun – complete packages. This, despite the fact that they’re never the fastest or fanciest.