By on September 21, 2015

Picture courtesy Volkswagen

More than $17 billion has been erased Monday from Volkswagen’s value in shareholders’ eyes as the company awaits more fallout from news that the company cheated through emissions tests.

Volkswagen’s stock dropped more than 20 percent Monday after the German automaker announced it would stop sales of its diesel cars on Sunday. New CEO Martin Winterkorn issued a statement Sunday to apologize:

I personally am deeply sorry that we have broken the trust of our customers and the public. We will cooperate fully with the responsible agencies, with transparency and urgency, to clearly, openly, and completely establish all of the facts of this case. Volkswagen has ordered an external investigation of this matter.

According to Reuters, Germany said it would investigate the claims on its own.

“You will understand that we are worried that the justifiably excellent reputation of the German car industry and in particular that of Volkswagen suffers,” Germany’s Economy Minister Sigmar Gabriel told the company, according to Reuters.

German Transport Minister Alexander Dobrindt spoke with Winterkorn on Monday to see if the coverup extended to cars sold in Europe.

The automaker faces record fines of up to $18 billion from the U.S. government for its role in cheating through emission tests, and immeasurable damage to its reputation as a sustainable automaker.

Separately, VW said it would suspend development of its 10-speed DSG automatic transmission — slated for many of its diesel vehicles — due to rising costs. The gearbox was rumored to be included in the next-generation Passat.

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104 Comments on “Billions Erased From Volkswagen’s Value In Stock Slide...”


  • avatar
    S2k Chris

    “You will understand that we are worried that the justifiably excellent reputation of the German car industry and in particular that of Volkswagen suffers,”

    *cough*

    • 0 avatar
      thornmark

      I’m sure Daimler and BMW are not amused at that statement of inclusion.

      At this point it’s a VW problem, not a German problem.

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        I bet if all diesels, car and truck, were actually road-tested under load, the findings would be that during official emissions testing at a testing station, each would pass.

        But during real-world on-road operation, each would not pass.

        BTW, I am not a fan of tiny diesels. I think diesels have a place in large trucks like 18-wheelers, dumpsters, locomotives, Thunder Pumpkins, Container Ships, etc, and pickup trucks 3/4-ton and up.

        • 0 avatar
          sirwired

          @highdesertcat

          There’s a big difference between building something that does very well on tests, with little regard to real-world performance (ref: EcoBoost), and specifically writing software to cheat on said tests.

          It’s well-known at this point that there are a lot of cars that do much better on US and Euro fuel-economy tests than they do under normal driving conditions (ref: EcoBoost). This is the first time I’ve ever heard of a carmaker specifically detecting they are being tested and changing behavior accordingly. It would be literally impossible to achieve these cars’ EPA test results during actual driving. Not merely unlikely, not merely unrealistic, but utterly impossible.

          Reports are sketchy at this point, but it appears they were looking for circumstances where the front wheels were moving, the back wheels weren’t, and the barometric pressure and temperature were at the levels specified in the EPA emissions test protocol. (A car magazine or enthusiast running a dyno test is unlikely to be running the car at the exact pressure and temperature as the EPA tests, and while they don’t test for emissions, they would be certain to notice the power loss.)

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            sirwired, my understanding is that it is a software (firmware) function that governs the metering of fuel and DEF.

            With ABS the routine you mentioned is easily incorporated into the firmware code of the ECM:

            in plain language terms, “IF front wheels rolling and back wheels not rolling, lean out air/fuel mixture to test-mode.”

            Conversely, “IF front wheel rolling AND back wheels rolling, enrich fuel/air mixture to power mode.”

          • 0 avatar
            ExPatBrit

            Actually it’s more subtle, its using a combination of the steering position sensor as well as the speed sensors to deduce that the car is not actually moving.

            Devious too , doesn’t switch back to “pollute mode ” immediately . The independent lab drove a VW and a BMW for comparison from San Diego to Seattle in order to figure it .

        • 0 avatar
          TOTitan

          “I bet if all diesels, car and truck, were actually road-tested under load, the findings would be that during official emissions testing at a testing station, each would pass.

          But during real-world on-road operation, each would not pass.”

          Not true. From the source of the group that commissioned the study, The International Council on Clean Transportation “The BMW vehicle’s performance on the in-use tests shows that the technology needed to meet the U.S. motor vehicle air pollution emission standards for diesels is available,” said Francisco Posada, who led the research project.”

          Their press release is available here…http://www.theicct.org/news/epas-notice-violation-clean-air-act-volkswagen-press-statement

        • 0 avatar
          thornmark

          The Chinese Swedes, Volvo:

          “A year ago, tests performed in Europe by the same International Council on Clean Transportation prompted Spiegel Magazine to headline “Diesel cars: Manufacturers cheat about emissions.” Volvo was the biggest oinker. Only BMW was clean. BMW also tested well during the ICCT’s U.S. tests. …”
          http://dailykanban.com/2015/09/vws-diesel-shenanigans-bigger-headaches-yet-to-come/

      • 0 avatar

        Well.. if this cheaty tech is a Bosch or Continental construct… it very well could be a German problem. Regardless, the Schadenfreude is strong with this one.

      • 0 avatar
        SCE to AUX

        @thornmark: Great point. Although I’d guess that very soon every mfr’s car will be subjected to such scrutiny – starting with diesels – to see how they perform.

        Just as with the Ashley Madison scandal, there may be lots of nervous people everywhere.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          But worse than the Ashley Madison scandal, which was adults seeking mutual gratification, Apple now has had to admit that they have been hacked and some of their Apps corrupted.

          It’s one thing to be a member of Ashley Madison where the outcome is always risqué.

          But it is quite different to be a trusting member of the Apple family, give up tons of sensitive personal information, and put trust in their safeguards by using their Apps only to be disappointed.

    • 0 avatar
      jetcal1

      S2 Chris, this is why TTAC needs an “like” button

  • avatar
    DeadWeight

    Compare & Contrast, fellow citizens:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2015/09/17/why-general-motors-900-million-fine-for-a-deadly-defect-is-just-a-slap-on-the-wrist/

    “For hiding a fatal ignition-switch defect tied to at least 174 deaths, General Motors employees will face no criminal charges and the automaker will pay a $900 million fine — less than a third of its $2.8 billion in profit last year.

    The settlement with the Department of Justice, announced Thursday, signals a close to the criminal investigation that has long tarnished the car giant. But critics say the automaker got off easy for mishandling one of the worst auto safety crises in history, and years of lying to safety regulators and leaving Americans at risk

    The DOJ agreed to hold off on prosecuting General Motors for charges of wire fraud and scheming to hide the defect from regulators, as well as drop the criminal case in three years, if the Detroit automaker continues to acknowledge responsibility, accept independent monitoring and cooperate with authorities.

    Critics point out the $900 million fine is a fraction of the automaker’s $156 billion in revenue last year and the $50 billion taxpayers gave to GM during the bailout. No executives will face jail time, even after the company acknowledged how high-level delays and deception had contributed to roadway deaths.

    GM’s penalty is also less than the record-setting $1.2 billion fine levied on Toyota last year after the Japanese car giant failed to recall cars that could suddenly accelerate, even though federal regulators say the defect has been linked to at least five deaths.”

    -vs-

    Despite no deaths, or even injuries –

    http://www.startribune.com/epa-says-vw-intentionally-violates-clean-air-standards/328208031/

    “The EPA said VW faces fines of up to $37,500 per vehicle for the violations — a total of more than $18 billion.”

    • 0 avatar
      HiFlite999

      “Despite no deaths, or even injuries –”

      That would be true assuming the emitted pollutants are harmless, which is itself not true.

      • 0 avatar
        Ihatejalops

        Assuming that emitted pollutants are actually harmful and caused reduced life expectancy (they don’t). But politics gotta be political so “climate change” (advocates?) cause is more an outrage then human deaths.

        Just look at the “outrage” over a lion.

        • 0 avatar
          dal20402

          This isn’t about CO2. It’s about oxides of nitrogen, which help smog form more easily (in other words, help particulates stay in the air longer). There is no question that NOx emissions are directly harmful to humans.

          • 0 avatar
            George B

            The primary issue with oxides of nitrogen is increased concentration of ozone. Gasoline engines produce less NOx than diesel engines and emissions control systems work very well at cleaning up the NOx that gasoline engines produce.

            The chemistry of photochemical smog.
            http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/Physical_Chemistry/Kinetics/Case_Studies%3A_Kinetics/Smog

          • 0 avatar
            Ihatejalops

            Chinese life expectancy to American, who lives longer?

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Try getting reliable statistics out of China first.

        • 0 avatar
          Brett Woods

          Would you rather relax in an armchair in your garage with 25 chain smokers, or your Jetta TDI running?

      • 0 avatar
        Sigivald

        The pollutant in question here is nitric oxide (NO).

        It doesn’t kill people; the worst anyone pins on it is acid rain (and the levels involved, even at “40 times the legal limit” are probably not important for that.

        See e.g. Wikipedia [which, blah blah, is perfectly fine for non-controversial mere science topics]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitric_oxide#Environmental_effects

        I’d estimate the number of people killed or detectably injured by VW’s emissions cheating rounds to zero.

        So GM loses in this comparison.

        • 0 avatar
          Sigivald

          (Note that assumes the reporting was correct and it’s only NO levels; if it’s NO2 [nitric dioxide] that’s another matter, as that stuff forms smog.

          And might round the total injury level up above zero, though I wouldn’t bet on even a single death, given how little smog there is in the US now, total.

          I’m not sure, in either case, that the *net emission level* is sufficient for much gnashing and wailing.

          Now, VW deserves the hammer for *deliberately cheating on emissions*, no matter what – but let’s not confuse that with actual harm to people, of any significance.)

    • 0 avatar
      davegyza

      I wonder how much of the $37,500 will wind up in the pockets of people who bought these cars. Any guesses?

      • 0 avatar
        wsn

        The buyers didn’t suffer any particular loss. No more than everyone else.

        • 0 avatar
          davegyza

          So residuals will be unaffected?

          • 0 avatar
            Ihatejalops

            Whoever buys a Volkswagon for its residual value, or just value, deserves to lose money

          • 0 avatar
            wsn

            I think residuals will actually go up.

            VW did this trick to both pass the emission test and make the cars handle/accelerate better. Since a sales ban would only apply to new cars, existing VWs are probably the best performing diesel VWs in a long time.

        • 0 avatar
          srh

          “The buyers didn’t suffer any particular loss. No more than everyone else.”

          The buyers will suffer very specific losses, when their cars fail to pass emissions, and thus cannot be driven. No doubt VW will release new software, which will presumably dramatically decrease performance. Which will be great because then they’ll pass emissions but will get crappy mileage and performance. And their resale value will drop precipitously.

          Also, and perhaps more importantly, VW TDI owners will no longer be able to walk around in a cloud of smug.

          • 0 avatar
            jrmason

            “No doubt VW will release new software, which will presumably dramatically decrease performance.”

            LOL, not quite. Fuel mileage may be minutely affected but engine performance will not change. People sure are blowing this out of proportion without even knowing the details. Fines and reputation aside this wont mount to much aside from a reflash. No fancy new components or anything else that’s being dreamed up by all the oil burner opponents.

            “Also, and perhaps more importantly, VW TDI owners will no longer be able to walk around in a cloud of smug.”

            Careful, your showing your IQ level with that one.

          • 0 avatar
            30-mile fetch

            jrmason,
            If the emissions can be easily rectified by a reflash that minutely affects fuel economy and doesn’t effect engine power, what was the incentive for the cheat in the first place?

          • 0 avatar
            VCplayer

            I kind of doubt this is just a software fix. They’ll figure out how to fix it on existing vehicles without having to spend too much though.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            My guess is that VW wanted to avoid the cost of additional filtration, so a genuine fix for existing vehicles will be next to impossible. VAG may have to cut a deal with the EPA and CARB in order to get around this.

            It also wouldn’t surprise me if VW’s top brass didn’t know about this until after the fact. Some engineering heads are going to roll.

          • 0 avatar
            wsn

            “The buyers will suffer very specific losses, when their cars fail to pass emissions”

            I don’t know what you are talking about. There is no emission test for used cars.

          • 0 avatar
            VCplayer

            “I don’t know what you are talking about. There is no emission test for used cars.”

            A number of municipalities require emissions testing in order to register (and renew) a vehicle in their jurisdiction. I used to live in one. Kind of a pain, but you end up stuck behind a clunker spewing noxious fumes a lot less often.

          • 0 avatar

            Here ya go
            states requiring testing
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection_in_the_United_States
            Rule regarding reg renewal with non compliant vehicle
            https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1dmy&urile=wcm:path:/dmv_content_en/dmv/pubs/reg_hdbk/ch10/ch10_14

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            Wsn is almost never correct. He must be Australian.

    • 0 avatar
      mike1dog

      For one thing, just because the fines are potentially $37,500 per vehicle doesn’t mean that’s what they’ll get fined. Secondly, if you can’t tell the difference between having a defective part and admittedly not handling it correctly, and intentionally making your vehicle defective to break a law, then I really don’t know what to say to you.

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      The EPA, under direction of other U.S. governmental entities, should just go all the way:

      Just force VW/Audi to pay for a $37,500 voucher, to be provided to every owner of affected VWs/Audis, if they apply it to the purchase of a Government Motors (GM) vehicle.

    • 0 avatar
      sirwired

      Are you going to post the exact same thing in every TTAC story about this fiasco?

    • 0 avatar
      PenguinBoy

      “Compare & Contrast”
      The Toyota and GM scandals were similar, in that in both cases there was an initial safety defect that appears to be the result of an honest mistake (sticky gas pedals prone to entrapment under floor mats, or a loose ignition key prone to accidentally being shut off). In both cases, the companies involved initially attempted to cover up the problem rather than acknowledge it and address it promptly. In both cases the response to the problem was sub optimal, but the companies didn’t set out to intentionally create the initial problem.

      The VW scandal seems quite different, as it appears that VW set out to *intentionally* put in place a system to cheat on the emissions test. It seems to me that this is quite a bit worse, and should be dealt with more harshly.

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      No rational person employing a logical analysis can possibly deny that GM is receiving extraordinarily preferential treatment by U.S. regulatory & law enforcement agencies compared to any competitor, even more so if the competitor happens to be non-U.S. based.

      This is why failed corporations having permanently impaired corporate cultures should not be bailed out; they’ll become perpetually revisited wards of the state/taxpayer.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        In less time than it has taken you to type one of your screeds, you could have learned that GM was penalized with the maximum fines that NHTSA can impose, and that those fines are well above anything that was assessed prior to the Obama presidency. You simply have no idea what you’re talking about.

      • 0 avatar
        VCplayer

        “No rational person employing a logical analysis can possibly deny that GM is receiving extraordinarily preferential treatment by U.S. regulatory & law enforcement agencies compared to any competitor, even more so if the competitor happens to be non-U.S. based.”

        VW’s potential fines are based on well-established law. It’s not like they didn’t know how this would go down if they were caught. I would expect GM or Ford to be penalized the same way if they were caught in a similar scheme.

        Toyota probably got hit harder than they really deserved, but VW has no leg to stand on here.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      DW, VW just ripped off its customers in a massive way, whether the pollutants are harmful or not.

      So, you’re right, there isn’t a direct comparision, but what VW did was massively wrong.

    • 0 avatar
      alexndr333

      I was going to write about the difference between GM and VW based on the ‘intent’ behind each company’s wrong-going (incompetence vs willful deception). However, I realized the intended audience (Mr. DW) is an obsessive and out-of-balance individual who cannot see any injustice in the world, except that created by GM. So, instead, I suggest that he go to the local shelter and serve meals to the homeless, or go to a children’s hospital and rock crack-babies to sleep. He might gain a little perspective and find a more balanced approach to this broken old world. The rest of us should just pray for him.

    • 0 avatar
      JohnTaurus_3.0_AX4N

      Comparing and contrasting are the same thing, idiot.

      Pardon me as I didnt read the rest of your dribble.

  • avatar
    Jeff Waingrow

    I’m not sure which is worse, that Winterkorn knew about it or that he didn’t. Guilty either way. My concern is not so much for the stockholders as for the everyday workers and suppliers who will suffer immeasurably (though workers likely hold substantial VW stock too).

  • avatar
    jmo

    “after the German automaker announced it would stop sales of its diesel cars on Sunday”

    Worldwide or just in the US? IIRC this is a worldwide problem.

    • 0 avatar
      VCplayer

      US diesel standards are different from the rest of the world’s IIRC. It might very well be that only US models had the software loaded.

      Of course, if they were doing this in Europe too, the US fines are going to pale in comparison.

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        VCplayer,
        The biggest hurdle for auto manufacturers of diesel vehicles in the US is not the difference in standards. There is very little difference between EuroVI and US standards.

        The difference lies in the actual diesel fuel quality. US diesel fuel must run at a higher compression than EU diesel due to the USes lower cetane rating. Higher compression equates to higher levels of NOx.

        US diesel also contains 50% more sulphur, has a higher scar rate, which equates to a more abrasive fuel.

        All the US needs to do is improve the level of the diesel fuel to match other modern nations around the globe.

        The US does have refining capability to achieve this as it does refine EU diesel in many Gulf refineries.

        It’s a bit of a misnomer stating the US has different, harsher or better diesel emission standards than the EU.

        The Mazda Skyactive is a classic example of a great engine that can’t be used in the US due to lower quality diesel fuel, not emissions standards. The Skyactive to function requires a 14:1 compression ratio. US diesel only allows diesels to run at above 15:1.

    • 0 avatar
      Richard Chen

      Canada and US as the EPA (de-)certifies for both countries. VW Canada has also stopped sales as well as having purged TDI off their web site, whereas VWoA has not.

      http://www.thestar.com/business/2015/09/21/vw-pulls-polluting-diesel-cars-from-canadian-market.html

      Keep hope alive, webmasters!

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      US Tier 2 NOx limits are lower than both Euro 5 and recently introduced Euro 6 standards, so it’s possible that this will remain a US-only problem.

      • 0 avatar
        Big Al from Oz

        Pch101,
        EuroVI and US standards are designed to be harmonized, to reduce the burden of cost.

        The problem with using an EU diesel in the US is the difference in the diesel fuel quality.

        The US uses a lower quality diesel fuel.

  • avatar
    HiFlite999

    Were I Mazda, I’d be extremely pissed. Probably based on the relative success of VW’s diesels, they decided to introduce a Skyactiv version into the USA. This has been delayed (perhaps forever) because they couldn’t make the emission/performance combination work; not, at least without cheating.

    It’s possible that *nobody* can make it work (without cheating).

    If, and it’s a big IF, VW can make the half-million cars out there meet EPA standards with just new software, then it’s almost guaranteed those cars will be turned into slugs.

    OTOH, it’s also possible that these cars simply can’t meet the EPA standards with their present hardware, regardless of programming, sending 500k Audi/VWs to the crusher. Figure another $15 billion for that. Whose pocket is that going to come out of?

    • 0 avatar
      Richard Chen

      The BMW X5 diesel did pass the on-road NOx test that the VWs failed. So it’s possible, but not at VW transaction prices. (Cheap, clean, fast: chose two.)

      Mazda may be pissed, but there is a rumor that one of the Detroit Three tipped the EPA off:

      http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100125_vw-diesel-emissions-recall-what-you-need-to-know-in-10-questions/page-3

  • avatar
    RandomGhost

    Audi’s terrific “Green Police” Super Bowl ad from a few years back is now hysterically ironic.

  • avatar
    GermanReliabilityMyth

    Superior German adhesives will keep the company from falling apart during this difficult time. You should be thankful that Volkswagen is even willing to sell such fine automobiles to the American public after disgraceful declarations from the EPA schweinehunde.

  • avatar
    wsn

    What were they thinking? Isn’t it obvious that it’s only a matter of time before it’s found out?

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      It’s only a matter of time when all other OEMs offering tiny diesels in America will be outed.

      But also let’s keep in mind that America’s diesel fuel is filthy nasty compared to diesel fuel in Europe.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      In business today, wrongdoing that will be found out may be the rational thing to do as long as it takes years to find it out. Investors have a very short-term time horizon, and this sort of wrongdoing basically amounts to earlier investors (those who sold before the discovery) stealing from today’s investors.

      • 0 avatar
        sirwired

        @highdesertcat
        The on-road diesel sold in the US has been of the same Ultra-Low Sulfur variety sold in Europe since 2006.

        @dal20402
        Only 15% of VW stock is owned by the public. The rest is owned by the various arms of the Porsche clan and the German state of Lower Saxony, both of which have a strong interest in the company’s long-term success.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          sirwired, we had a diesel Passat while we were in Germany earlier this year and their diesel fuel doesn’t smell or look like our diesel fuel in the US, at all.

          My experience with US diesel fuel is filling up two diesel tanks on the Volvo tractor I drove to haul my son’s cattle from Dalhart, KC, and Hastings, last year.

          US diesel stinks. It reeks. It’s waxy. IMO, it’s nasty compared to the diesel fuel we bought at Esso and Fina in Germany.

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        dal, I think they have known about this, and other automotive issues, since time immemorial, but have only chosen to out it under the current administration in America.

        For those people that were served well by this administration, this is another example of this administration’s effectiveness. But for others, not so much.

        I don’t believe in tiny diesels, so I’m not affected. But ~500K of VW fans are affected.

        And I agree with you about investors and investment strategy. But selective investment worked for me, made me who I am today, and secured my financial future. I chose wisely (Indiana Jones).

        So I can’t complain because I adhered to that old adage, “Caveat Emptor”, choosing to invest ONLY in investment-vehicles I liked, and was willing to lose on my bets.

        Fortunately for me and mine, I won more than I lost.

  • avatar
    George B

    One of the main reasons for buying a Volkswagen in the US was they offered non-luxury diesel cars with superior highway fuel economy. The dealer experience was horrible, but VW knew how to make “clean” diesels while other manufacturers couldn’t figure out how to meet the tough US emissions requirements. My fear would be that any “fix” to Volkswagen TDI makes those cars more expensive to buy, more expensive to maintain, and less efficient. On top of this the price of regular gasoline has fallen well below $2/gallon (I paid $1.759/gallon last week) so paying thousands extra up front for better fuel economy is never recovered at the fuel pump.

  • avatar
    johnny_5.0

    So what you are saying is that now may be a great time to get a sweet deal on a GTI or Golf R? Dealerships need to move inventory. Cheap lease offers in 3…2…1.

  • avatar
    CoreyDL

    That photo was taken from the annual Least Reliable Car Park competition.

  • avatar
    sirwired

    I suspect this may be the final nail in the proverbial coffin for VW to turn into a zombie US brand like Volvo or Mitsubishi, both of which only remain in the US out of corporate stubbornness, rather than any realistic prospect of profits any year soon.

    In addition to the couple $B in fines I expect they’ll be paying, they’ll also have to pay out to all the owners for the drop in residual value. (Inevitable when both the economy and power of the cars drops.) And I expect their entire dealer body is lining up for some lawsuits too.

  • avatar
    DearS

    I hope the new Civic drives as well as the VW GTI that would stop me from having a love/hate relationship with these vehicles.

    • 0 avatar
      EAF

      Honda has handled as well if not better since the 1990’s. See Integra GSR.

      “Billions Lost” and “VW” in the same headline is the absolute best news I could have ever hoped for. It fits right below concepts such as Miracle Cancer Cure and World Peace.

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    Does this mean we’ll finally get some cash on the hood for gas powered Golfs?

    Or did they jury rig these the same way?

  • avatar
    30-mile fetch

    Hmmm, pressure the local dealer to wheel & deal on a new GTI, or wait until the stock appears to bottom out from this and then buy shares?

  • avatar
    Car-los

    And all this comes practically within days of the power struggle at the top of VW group. It looks like Herr Winterkorn won’t last long in his post. Ferdinand Piech will have the last lough, alas, an expensive one…

  • avatar
    seth1065

    Well as I understand it VW rigged the test and should pay what ever is fair to fix it, but most people who have a TDI get better than what the sticker , I think it says 42mpg highway, if VW has to do a software fix and the highway mileage becomes a real world 42 the TDI drivers may be pissed but they can not really complain that it only gets what the sticker says it will get. It seems the newer TDI’s should be a easier fix as they use a different emission system than the 09-13 TDI’s, the drivers will not see anything from VW, maybe a loyalty coupon but not much more than that, the lawyers on the other hand will have a field day. I doubt VW will be really hurt about this, the US buyers seem to have recall fatigue. Full disclosure I own one of the rigged TDI’s and my wagon gets about what the EPA said it should get. If a new software “fix” makes me lost two MPG per gallon of fuel I will live. When VW dropped the diesel line a few years ago used TDi prices went thru the roof as certain people will not drive anything else but a oil burner.

  • avatar
    RideHeight

    OK, this is already boring.

    Maybe the Pope can have a word with the right people while he’s here and VW can be absolved with a few Our Fathers & Hail Marys since they’ve already made A Good Act of Contrition.

  • avatar
    CoreyDL

    Funny enough, I noted an odd sight when I pulled into the parking garage today. A couple of spots from the lower entrance sat a black R32 Golf. It was on jack stands, and the front bumper was off.

    I figure there must be a light bulb needed changing, and it wouldn’t start without it or something.

    First time I’ve EVER seen a disabled car in the parking garage.

  • avatar
    daviel

    Good time to buy VW stock.

  • avatar
    vaujot

    I think, sooner or later we will be presented a small group of sheepish-looking engineers who say that they did what their design parameters told them, i.e. build an engine that passes the required emmissions tests, not one that is clean when driven on the road.
    I think there are two possible explanations for this kind of thing happening: A small group of engineers conspiring to rigg the test or a larger group thinking that what they’re doing is not wrong (“we have to build engines that pass the test, not engines that run clean on the road.”).
    And the lawyers may end up having a field day, if the emissions requirements are poorly phrased.

  • avatar
    Noble713

    20% stock drop in one day! Anyone with shorts on VW must be laughing to the bank.

  • avatar
    TDIGuy

    Two things:
    1. I get the point is that they cheated. But how much more pollutant are we talking versus all the big trucks and other diesel powered stuff already out there?
    2. So they can’t sell any new TDIs at the moment. How will it affect the used ones? Price goes up due to lack of new ones vs price drop due to overall consumer impression of the brand?

    Me, I’m waiting (hoping?) until they get a fix done and then have a bunch of 2015 Audi TDIs they need to clear out because of cancelled orders.

    • 0 avatar
      DenverMike

      Don’t worry. Just figure you’re got a far worse polluter than any Power Stroke Diesel of the same vintage.

    • 0 avatar
      RideHeight

      I think I just saw the NYT state that only 1% of American passenger vehicles are diesels. Hence my take on this as largely opera bouffe.

      Yes, them Germermans were poops to trojan horse their cars sold here, but they are just little poops. Like what that mouse once left in my fridge’s evap tray. A moderate pain to clean but I emerged unscathed.


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