By on January 9, 2015

wowjustwow

I have been toying with the idea of sending users who fail to read the article (and leave a snarky comment) with a one week, all expenses paid vacation away from the site. I am open to criticism, corrections, feedback and the like. I can’t stand pedantry, like the example shown above. Rather than unilaterally implement this rule, and repeat the mistakes of the “Top Troll” post, I am politely asking you to read the article in full, and then leave a comment.

Get the latest TTAC e-Newsletter!

Recommended

204 Comments on “Comment Of The Day: RTFM...”


  • avatar
    Master Baiter

    I always read the articles in full before leaving my snarky comments.

  • avatar
    Lou_BC

    If some bloggers did not exhibit a knee jerk response one would be checking for signs of life.

    With that being said……… AGREE.

    • 0 avatar
      CJinSD

      This from the guy that ‘corrected’ me about a truck parked in my driveway. You’re exactly the sort that makes authoritative statements in contradiction to the obvious.

  • avatar
    Pch101

    You could chock it up to poor reading comprehension.

    But there are also different definitions of “America.” Native English speakers equate America with the United States of America — the Brits were referring to the colonials as “Americans” even before there was a USA.

    But Latin Americans use “America” to describe the combined continents of North and South America. (They can get a bit huffy about it, too. At least some of them believe that the English speakers are wrong, so “correcting” you may have been a political statement.)

    There was also a band called America, but nobody really wants to hear “Muskrat Love,” right?

    • 0 avatar
      Lie2me

      Especially The Captain and Tennille’s cover of it, ugh!

    • 0 avatar
      bball40dtw

      My freshman roomate LOVED the band America and would play “Tin Man” all the time. Ugh.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        I have to confess that I got the Greatest Hits album for “Ventura Highway.” (Judging from the song selection, it was a struggle to compile enough songs to fill a whole album.)

        • 0 avatar
          bball40dtw

          I bet it has three versions of “Sister Golden Hair” and a 12 minute “extended folk rock version” of “Horse With No Name”.

          • 0 avatar
            NoGoYo

            I’m pretty sure it doesn’t have “You Can Do Magic”, though. Which was one of their actual hits…

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            I was hoping for a “Ventura Freeway” remix that complained about congestion, traffic accidents and the Highway Patrol. But no, they had to include “Muskrat Love,” instead.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            Does anyone like Muskrat Love? I can’t get on board with that tune.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            I’m sure that some people like it. But they obviously need killin’.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            Now you’ve done it…

            Stix, “La-dy”

            Fleetwood Mac, “Rhiannon”

            When I registered for classes everyone was issued a copy of that album, I think

            Edit: I meant the Album “Rumors”, my bad

          • 0 avatar
            NoGoYo

            When I think Fleetwood Mac songs I like, I definitely don’t think Rhiannon.

            The Chain? Tusk? Little Lies? Now those are good Fleetwood Mac songs.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            “Rhiannon” really has no place on a list that is better suited to the entire catalogs of Bread and Grand Funk Railroad.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            Bread?! No, no, no Bread!

            “The Chain? Tusk? Little Lies? Now those are good Fleetwood Mac songs.”

            Yes, they where on the album

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            I always liked the Pete Green version of Fleetwood Mac.

          • 0 avatar
            05lgt

            Re Bread, too funny. Just yesterday I was annoying a coworker with a rant about not being able to block a band from a pandora station and having to listen to more than one song (or at least the beginning of more than one) by Bread.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            Fleetwood Mac’s best song is Golddust Woman sung by Stevie Nicks.

            As for America and Bread. It is good to hear them once a decade.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            I am going to start a Bread cover band. Not sure whether we should call it Moldy, Half Baked or Stale.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            @pch101

            Sliced?

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            I suppose Bread Styx could kill two birds, er, bands with one stone.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            “Fleetwood Mac’s best song is Golddust Woman sung by Stevie Nicks.”

            False. The correct answer is “The Green Manalishi (With the Two Prong Crown)”.

            I do like Gold dust woman though.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            I have to say that I like most of the iterations of Fleetwood Mac. Bare Trees and Rumours are both personal favorites.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            Bread Styx get stale if exposed to the bad Air Supply

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            “Fleetwood Mac’s best song is Golddust Woman sung by Stevie Nicks.”

            “Stand Back” and make room for the “Edge of 17”

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            There is no such thing as good Air Supply.

            My Air Supply cover band will be called Asphyxiated. We won’t need guitars — chalkboards and nails will suffice.

          • 0 avatar
            Big Al from Oz

            One of the best US bands of that era ie, late 60s/early 70s would have to be Credence Clearwater Revial.

          • 0 avatar
            bunkie

            “A Horse With No Name” – That is one song I refuse to play. I’ve had bandmates suggest it from time to time and I steadfastly refuse.

            And the best Fleetwood Mac song is Danny Kirwan’s “LIttle Child of Mine” from Bare Trees. In it, you can see how British Blues morphed into early ’70s sophisticated melodic rock. And I know everyone loves Peter Green, but I’d rather listen to Kirwan any day.

    • 0 avatar
      BuzzBNY

      I know a nun by the name of Sister Golden Hair who might?

    • 0 avatar
      carsRneat

      I agree. Many people in the US seem to think “America” and the US are synonymous. Actually in most of the Western hemisphere they are not. America is more broadly viewed as including the Americas – both N. and S. America. I find many Americans are surprised but when you think about it – it makes sense. Otherwise, why would one refer to South “America?” As both an EU and US citizen – it is surprising to me that so few of my fellow US citizens take this into account when they are in discussions with those from other countries (and I often cringe when they start insisting that America = US in discussions with those from south of the border).

      So – no, please don’t ban people for a week – and also don’t ban yourself.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        Mr. Kreindler is Canadian.

        He is using “American” as other English speakers and Europeans use it: as a reference to the people of the United States of America.

        There is no one correct answer, but it is absolutely wrong to believe that one use is correct while the other one is not. If the Latin Americans can’t hang with the differences, then that’s their problem.

        • 0 avatar
          tedward

          Canadians get touchy about this as well. Not for the same reason as South and Central Americans it should be noted. They don’t like it when everyone else refers to all of North America as “America”, because what they are doing is considering Canada part of the US. I get it I guess, Canada isn’t exactly a “client state” in the traditional sense.

          Did you also know…Michael Moore wasn’t always into documentaries.
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Bacon

    • 0 avatar
      FormerFF

      If you listen to America’s earlier stuff, some of it includes some very nice acoustic guitar.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @Pch101 – agreed. I’m not sure how Mexicans view the USA but Canadians refer to residents of the USA as Americans. Using the term America also refers to the USA. An expansion of that word to “Americas” would open it up to North and South America. By definition Mexico is part of North America as evidenced by NAFTA.

    • 0 avatar
      cstoc

      To my knowledge, the USA is the only country in the western hemisphere with “America” in its name. Therefore the use of “America” to mean the country is accurate. If others intend to refer to a continent then let them say “North America”, “South America”, or “Central America”.

      • 0 avatar
        wstarvingteacher

        Well the name is the United States of America. Not the United States is America. I lived in Panama for four years and never heard any complaints. There were some discussions and I did get in the habit of saying The United States not America.

        Suspect if you are going to have contributors from Brazil and wherever you might to well to do two things. Develop a global perspective and get thicker skin.

        Nothing is written in stone but that is my $.02 worth.

  • avatar

    I for one would like a thumbs up/ thumbs down button so I can guage proponents/ detractors.

    I think if you have temporary bans, a countdown clock would be nice!

  • avatar
    philipbarrett

    @Pch101 – Pedantry : excessive concern with minor details and rules. I think DK fully understood the subtext, I would add “that generally have no bearing on the author’s original point.”

    Although my pet peeve is the commentator 75 posts deep who hasn’t bothered to scan the other posts so merely repeats what 12 people have already said.

  • avatar
    Lie2me

    The “American” thing can get a little confusing especially when talking about cars. Often when a car is imported for the “American market” that includes Canada, but rarely Mexico. I’ve just learned to say “North American market” when talking about the sales demographic of USA/Canada, because that’s what the car companies seem to use

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      From an automotive perspective, US and Canada are effectively one country due to decades of the Auto Pact and the degree to which the supply chains are integrated. (This is also reflected in the safety standards, which are nearly identical to each other.)

    • 0 avatar
      S1L1SC

      Still confusing as Canada gets stuff the USA doesn’t… Chevy Orlando come to mind.

    • 0 avatar
      ect

      Lie2me, you’re right to refer to the North American market for Canada/US, as they are effectively a single market area (as Pch observes). For the most part, I think most people hear a reference to “America” as meaning the USA.

      More broadly, I can only observe that there are a lot of people in this world (like the poster Derek cites) with far too much time on their hands and possessed of very small minds, who can only find personal validation in meaningless quibbles about the utterances of others.

      BTW, I also like Rhiannon. Musical taste is very personal, of course, so chacun a son goût.

      S1L1SC, Canada does get some models that the US does not, but very few. The cost of homologation being what it is, and the size of the Canadian market being what it is, there will never be very many “unique to Canada” models.

  • avatar
    pkov

    I’ve been reading a massive history of the Atlantic slave trade and learned that European players used “America” for well over 200 years before there was a USA.

    I’m on rimigoya’s side here. Maybe nitpicky, certainly not snarky.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    I say everybody be cool as life is too fracking short as I was recently reminded.

    Regarding the comment itself, I generally remember to say “North America” when I refer to the continent and “US” when I refer to the United States specifically but nobody’s perfect. This gentleman ignorantly assumed “America” equaled “United States”, apparently. My thought is let’s try to remember there are three countries in North America and refer to them as the sovereign nations they happen to be.

  • avatar
    Landcrusher

    I’m not a fan of the ban hammer being applied without warnings which are explicit and objective and name the offender. Many sites follow the formula to put out a warning to a group, then smack one seemingly at random. This fixes nothing.

    OTOH, if someone really is guilty, then pointing out exactly what they did publicly shouldn’t be a problem. Just remember, you are judged by your actions as well.

    Since we are naming pet peeves, mine is the ad hominem by class. One guy writes how he likes brown, manual wagons. Them, some jerk writes how anyone who likes brown wagons is (insert rude name here). If insults are allowed, insult the guy directly. If not, you should get kicked all the same. Consistency is key.

  • avatar
    Waftable Torque aka Daniel Ho

    Ooh, a blacklist button. Me want!

    And honestly, blogs would be more intelligent and civilized when you remove the veil of anonymity. Or so my libertarian leanings would like to believe.

    • 0 avatar
      bball40dtw

      I think it is pretty civil here and anonymity is important for a number of people that comment on a regular basis.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      The problem is people say stupid things to each other in a private or limited group conversation and its forgotten. People using their real names makes the same mistakes on the internets -where NOTHING is ever erased- and it can truly be a detriment to their lives. Look at how many Facebook related charges/crimes there have been since the project began.

      http://www.hongkiat.com/blog/bizarre-facebook-crimes/

    • 0 avatar
      Drzhivago138

      We kind of give up our anonymity when we take usernames and allow our personalities to show through our words. This isn’t 4chan.

  • avatar
    Travis

    I, for one, would wholly prefer to not have thumbs up/down voting system in place for comments. However, calling out the blatantly stupid remarks is fantastic. This did, in fact, make me lol.

    • 0 avatar
      Ryoku75

      The dumbest comment feature I’ve seen in the past few years would be thumbs, partially because people will thumb down some really good comments just because they disagree with it, and partially because I’m notified of them everyday on both Disquss AND google, I’d rather have a real response over a thumb!

      Rant over

  • avatar
    B.C.

    Doesn’t the M in RTFM stand for Manual? This is an article, not a manual.

  • avatar
    Hummer

    Since this is kinda an off topic article, is anyone else getting these page redirects to some website called “The doctors” selling weight loss tablets or some crap.

    I’m 6’2 and 180lb, I don’t need em, can we look into these random redirects.
    (I tend to view from a phone) also I’ve kinda gotten over this but if we could get a non-mobile option, mobile only websites are never as good as the full website, that would be awesome.

  • avatar
    lilpoindexter

    BABABOOEY

  • avatar
    levi

    “…I am politely asking you to read the article in full, and then leave a comment.”

    If anyone has a problem with that request, they need to find another forum. But not just for a week.

  • avatar
    mx5ta

    I well remember when this prissy complaint about people in the U.S. calling their country, on occasion, “America” came to notice. It was a late hippie-era attempt to deride an imagined patriotic right wing of the time. At about the same time, it was similarly pointed out that George Washington had wooden false teeth and that Thomas Jefferson fathered children with a slave. Some comedian, Robert Klein it may have been, once pointed out that, in the day, all he had to say was “Richard Nixon,” and the audience would crack up. Similarly ancient and mildewed is a complaint about someone casually referring to the United States of America as “America.”

    • 0 avatar

      I resemble a part of that comment and I’m offended.

    • 0 avatar
      kovakp

      For over two hundred years before there even was a USA both the casual and official correspondence of Atlantic slave traders, planters and the colonial powers they served used the term “America” or “Americas”.

      It was the generally accepted place name for the entirety of continents and islands on this s1de of the pond. Someone from a culture whose presence in this hemisphere long predates any of ours may justifiably take exception to being excluded from cons1deration as an American without drawing editorial ire IMHO.

      • 0 avatar

        Does Mexican culture predate “ours”? Were they not colonized by Spain, and the indigenous populations killed off in large numbers or assimilated into Spanish culture?

        • 0 avatar
          Pch101

          The English were referring to their colonials as Americans before the United States existed.

          These revisionist La Raza arguments are lame. People who can’t grasp the concept that a word can have more than one correct definition shouldn’t be taken seriously.

        • 0 avatar
          kovakp

          Derek,
          Have you never met a member of an old, wealthy Central or South American family?

          If you have you’ll know that the last people they identify with are their local indigenes.

          And of course the Spanish obliterated, enslaved or converted the “indian” populations they found in the Americas. We all did.

          Colonial plantations, mines and the Atlantic slave trade to provide their workers were the tech stocks of the 17th and 18th Centuries. Everyone who was anyone thronged to invest in them. Most lost their investments, if that’s any consolation.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            I think the class system is far more prolific everywhere in the world outside of North America and “down under” We have racial/ethnic divides but mostly status is based on wealth. If you can afford it, you can have pretty much anything you want. Not a perfect system, but better then most

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            I think the class system is far more prolific everywhere in the world outs1de of North America and “down under” We have racial/ethnic divides but mostly status is based on wealth. If you can afford it, you can have pretty much anything you want. Not a perfect system, but better then most

          • 0 avatar
            kovakp

            Absolutely agree.

            My only point here is that rmigoya is in no way offensive, impertinent or, most importantly, historically incorrect to make the comment he did.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            Well, I guess we all learn as we go.

  • avatar
    ravenchris

    Dunce cap.

  • avatar
    George B

    Derek, while I agree that the comment was pedantic, it was also informative. The only problem is the two words “You’re wrong”. Until your article I didn’t know the BLS existed and the comment added the information that GM exported the Cadillac BLS to Mexico.

    Differences in customer perception of brands and luxury from country to country can be interesting. US customers viewed the Lincoln Mark LT pickup as an F-150 that costs more while the Mark LT was a successful model though the 2014 model in Mexico. The Mercedes E class is a luxury car in the United States, but people in many other countries are more likely to see it as a taxi cab.

    • 0 avatar
      burgersandbeer

      I agree that “you’re wrong” turned the comment from informative to annoying. My other favorite is when commenters say “False.”

      rmigoya could have said “Depends on what you mean by America. It was exported to Mexico, which is part of North America.”

      I don’t agree with bans for this kind of thing anyway. I agree with the others commenting that it reminds them of the Bertel era. As a writer myself, I deeply sympathize with the frustration of someone not reading and then complaining or criticizing, but you really need to just shake your head and move on. The comments will police themselves. There is always someone more than happy to reply with “really? if you had read the article …”

      • 0 avatar

        Did you miss the part where I unequivocally said “not banning anyone for this”.

        • 0 avatar
          burgersandbeer

          I didn’t miss anything; it wasn’t there. You said you were toying with the idea of temporary bans, but rather than unilaterally implement it you are politely asking that we read everything before commenting. That is hardly unequivocal.

          I think you were throwing the idea out there, and if the reaction to it were different, you might very well temporarily ban people for comments that get under your skin.

          I was only saying that I thought the idea you were toying with was a bad one, while offering sympathy for your frustration.

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    In Australia when a person is given a short respite for an infringement it’s called “Sin Binning”. In football when a player goes that little to far he’s “Sin Binned”.

    A trash can is called a bin or garbage bin.

    I do support Derek on Sin Binning a commenter for wasting cyberspace.

    It’s unfortunate that people like this do exist, but they do.

  • avatar
    05lgt

    I believe any ban should be issued when most think it’s overdue or for such blatantly hateful speech as demands an immediate response. If someone is being d!ckish and gets under your skin, do as you once did with me. Call them out on it. You might get an apology and earn more respect than a temporary ban ever could.

    I hope it worked with me.

  • avatar
    Land Ark

    Testing content filter.

    Excellent.

    This will be in place of me childishly fake-ranting about how your implementing the ban-hammer is turning this site back into exactly what it vowed to get away from. Followed by calling you names of some sort, which thankfully I now no longer have to go look up.

  • avatar
    dal20402

    I appreciate the sparing use of the banhammer, and also your wise decision to overrule your own instincts and post a request instead of starting to ban.

    I think it’s right to ban someone who engages in obviously hateful speech (as in the most recent example I can think of) or who starts posting so much garbage as to drown out other discussion on the site (as in several bannings in the past). I don’t think it’s right to ban otherwise normal commenters who act annoying, try to provoke you, or get under your skin. It’s the internet and there are idiots. The thing is that sometimes even the idiots say something interesting.

  • avatar
    ...m...

    …derek, honestly, your reaction rings a schmittian tone: you’re far better served rolling with pedantic comments than to pay them much heed…

  • avatar
    rpol35

    Please think this one through completely, I don’t think anyone wants to return to the bad old days of Bertel Schitt.

  • avatar
    johnhowington

    Give Bertall Schmitt a call for some website advice TTAC. He knows how to ban people.

  • avatar
    Zackman

    Good grief, all these awful memories of so-called “classic rock” of the 1970s nauseates me! I used to have a lot of those records, and dumped them all in the 1980s.

    FWIW, on articles I do comment on, I do read them first.

    BTW, I gave up on Fleetwood Mac after “Rhiannon”. The only song by them I like to this day is from 1968: “Shake Your Moneymaker”. Nothing by America anymore. Nothing.

    • 0 avatar
      Lie2me

      Just think of it as Malaise Era music to go with the crappy cars

      How did we survive it all?

      • 0 avatar
        NoGoYo

        I certainly wouldn’t classify songs like The Chain or Tusk alongside the soft rock drivel from guys like Michael McDonald…

        I mean, I like “I Keep Forgettin\'”, but “What a Fool Believes” is downright embarrassing.

      • 0 avatar
        NoGoYo

        I dunno how you people made it through Player, Air Supply, Michael McDonald (both with and without the Doobie Brothers), and Dan Fogelberg, but congrats.

        Then again, the early 80s (80-82 mainly) were kinda weird about hit songs. For some reason, the 1981 Billboard pop charts had a boatload of country songs.

        • 0 avatar
          mkirk

          It was that awkward little period when the trucker culture was cool…hence the country music and that TV show where the dude drove around in his rig with a monkey.

        • 0 avatar
          Drzhivago138

          Despite my distate of 70’s “soft rock,” I find the Doobies to be slightly more listenable when McD jumped on board the yacht rock…er, boat. Mostly it’s all the jazzy chords he picked up from his time with Steely Dan. Before Michael came on board, they were another “generic” (IMO) CCR/LRB/Eagles-style American boogie-ish 3-chords-and-3-part-harmony band (yes, I know LRB was from Down Under).

          • 0 avatar
            NoGoYo

            Man, Steely Dan, that’s another band I can’t get into!

            For some reason, at the New Year’s Eve party I went to, someone put in Aja. Maybe it was because I was drunk, but I actually kinda got into it.

          • 0 avatar
            Drzhivago138

            Aja’s my favorite of theirs. Mostly ’cause they went full jazz on that one, and us white people love jazz, right?

            Actually, I have the capacity to enjoy any music where it’s clear that more than the minimum amount of effort required has gone into producing it. And Steely Dan are the most unpleasable perfectionists of the 20th century when it comes to music. Steve Gadd’s drumming and Wayne Shorter’s sax on the title track are as close to perfection as we’ll find on this sinful earth.

          • 0 avatar
            NoGoYo

            @Dr. Z: The only song I’ve heard from Gaucho was actually a song someone here referenced, “Glamour Profession”.

            I liked it, though. I’m more familiar with their early 70s hits that have been played to death, like “Do It Again” and “Reeling In The Years”.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            This is the crowning achievement from Gaucho: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiy09DIsZFU

          • 0 avatar
            Drzhivago138

            As soon as you hear that Purdie Shuffle(TM), you know it’ll be a great track. We need more muted trumpets on Top 40 radio.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Some of the old[er] timers may disagree but the only way I can explain it is: cocaine is a hell of a drug.

      • 0 avatar
        05lgt

        I can’t call it a musical malaise, because P-Funk.

    • 0 avatar
      Drzhivago138

      Warning: The Following Post Contains Blog-Style Personal Ramblings Some Readers May Find Inappropriate For An Automotive Journal Website.

      I enjoyed ’70s soft rock sincerely as a teen for the melody, but now the only “sensitive singer-songwriter” (another term I dislike) I enjoy sincerely is Jackson Browne, mostly ’cause most of his stuff is a little too dense and personal to be played on “classic rock” radio. If it’s not played on the radio much, I probably won’t mind hearing it. Warren Zevon, King Crimson, ’70s Genesis, ELP, Yes, Supertramp, The Moody Blues, early ELO, and early Chicago.

      • 0 avatar
        NoGoYo

        Any Blue Oyster Cult?

        My heart is black, and my lips are cold. Cities on flame…with rock and roll.

        • 0 avatar
          Drzhivago138

          Not really, but from what I’ve heard of their “deep cuts,” they seem to have more progressive leanings (which I’m really into at the moment, if ya couldn’t tell), so I probably wouldn’t mind them. Just don’t make me listen to “(Don’t Fear) The Reaper” again and say “durrhurr more cowbell” a dozen times.

          Kind of like listening to Kansas. Like most Young Americans, I first became familiar with them through “Carry On Wayward Son,” “Dust in the Wind,” etc. My thoughts were, “eh, kinda generic.” Then my father went to a concert and came back with a budget “best of” CD that included such gems as “Journey from Mariabronn,” “Icarus (Borne on Wings of Steel),” and their 10-minute magnum opus “Song for America,” and I was hooked. They’re kind of like Yes with less synth and more fiddle.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            I would compare Kansas more to ELP and Jethro Tull, with a hint of Deep Purple, run through an American album rock blender. Not really a fan, though.

            Since you mentioned it, this is what begat ELO (think “10538 Overture” but without the strings): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BzB7nkShdE

          • 0 avatar
            Drzhivago138

            Oh yeah, I suppose they are a little more Jethro Tull-ish. Not sure about the ELP thing, though, since Kansas were less likely to have racks of analog synths dragged along for every tour.

            And that’s some heavy bass on that Move track.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            The Kansas melody lines were influenced by ELP, but the arrangements were not — most ELP songs were absolutely dominated by keyboards and didn’t use much, if any, guitar.

            The last Move album was made in parallel with the first ELO album. ELO obviously changed quite a bit over the years (and necessarily not for the better.)

            (All of this stuff is a bit before my time. I was born too late.)

          • 0 avatar
            Drzhivago138

            Agreed, most of Kansas’s arrangements revolve around “let’s make sure everyone gets a solo in,” where ELP is more like, “let’s see how fast Keith can play 3 organs with various appendages and a Moog with his teeth while it’s on fire”.

          • 0 avatar
            Drzhivago138

            I will never subscribe to the “born in le wrong generation” view. I live in the best time, because even if I never got to experience this stuff when it was new and raw, there’s this magical technology with which I can still access it all, and connect with others who enjoy it too.

            And FWIW, Random Access Memories was the best album of 2013.

        • 0 avatar
          05lgt

          I need more cowbell!

        • 0 avatar
          shaker

          …Three thousand guitars, they seem to cry; my ears will melt, and then my eyes!

          My BOC faves:
          Flaming Telepaths
          Teen Archer
          Transmaniacon MC
          Many more

          “Don’t Fear The Reaper” is my least favorite – I even liked “Dr. Music” (From the “Mirrors” album) better. Best Disco Song Evar.

          “Astronomy” – The Metallica cover probably got more airplay than the original from BOC’s “Secret Treaties”.

          My buddy (another BOC fan) gave me a copy of their 2001 effort “Curse of The Hidden Mirror” – critically lukewarm, but not a bad effort to me.

          Sorry for the ramble.

          • 0 avatar
            bunkie

            Although I’ve never confirmed this, the guys from BOC apparently played with Jackson Browne back in the mid ’60s

            Just last night I heard a new Jackson Browne song and I thought (to paraphrase Paul Simon) “Still whining after all these years”…

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            “Don’t Fear the Pretender is Running on Empty” is not a song that I would want to hear.

          • 0 avatar
            kovakp

            “Still whining after all these years”

            A thousand thank-yous. He should have driven off a pier 40 years ago.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        This is a nice soothing song from Chicago’s early days:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRu3NFKBkt0

        (Note the use of the sarcasm font.)

        • 0 avatar
          Drzhivago138

          Oh, you. I was almost certain of that song before I opened the link.

          I’ve actually listened to it twice before. I find it slightly more listenable than “Hard Habit to Break,” “Will You Still Love Me,” or “What Kind of Man Would I Be?”. I could never stomach Lou Reed’s Metal Machine Music, though.

          • 0 avatar
            NoGoYo

            I wish all of Chicago’s other songs had been as cool as “25 or 6 to 4”.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            I can go the rest of my life without ever hearing…

            Any Beatles songs
            Anything from “Chicago”
            “Bohemian Rhapsody”
            and…
            “Stairway to Heaven”

            These are so permanently etched on my psyche that they cause great pain whenever heard, especially in an elevator

    • 0 avatar
      Dirty Dingus McGee

      No mention of one of the greatest bands of the 70’s and perhaps of all time? Rock and roll as it was meant to be; hard, raw and in your face, with a healthy blues influence. Sadly they strayed in the 80’s but in the 70’s you couldn’t beat them. The J. Geils Band

  • avatar
    djn

    The discusion of the meaning of American sounds like a stupid college debate.

    I lived in Brazil for a year and Americano = Gringo.
    Not Mexicano, Brasileiro, Argentino etc etc. Canadians don’t count, just another gringo.

    Also, I sure do miss a good old VW Marketing story from Bertel.

    • 0 avatar
      Ryoku75

      Only on the internet would people read a post, and then argue about the definition of what counts as “America”, forgetting the whole point of the post.

      Its like people derailing a discussions to super-analyze what counts as subjectivity or objectivity.

  • avatar

    I understand your frustration, but I think that would be a step too far. Usually, one of your defenders will gang up and chastise or poke fun at the person who made the erroneous comment, and that seems like justice enough. However, as bigtruck suggested, you could do the upvote, downvote thing for each comment. I’m sure there is a plugin that would be a breeze to integrate.

  • avatar
    Greg Locock

    Let’s see.

    the poster was actually right.

    the original article employed slapdash terminology.

    The ‘owner’ of the site wants to suppress the poster.

    yes, that sounds like DADTAC the the dumb ass derek truth about cars.

    Incidentally my wish for the new year would be that DAD would stop claiming to any insight about how cars are developed or engineered. Just cos his daddy sold cars means f-a.

    • 0 avatar

      You clearly didn’t read the part where I said I’m *not* banning anyone, did you?

    • 0 avatar
      wmba

      Good lord, Locock. This seems like an unusually vitriolic response from you, having been moderator on a few forums yourself. I grew up in Blighty myself in the 1950s, and the continent was known as the Americas. Nobody called Mexico America, and still don’t.

      You went to Australia, we came to Canada. Did your atlases have the one word America emblazoned over the North and South parts? I bet not.

      How did the ball-joint design on the first Territory work out? Or did you do the redesign?

  • avatar
    Ryoku75

    Either put them on a temporary ban or run an article like this, a “Dunce of the Day” thing just to shame them.

    You gotta love theres people out there whos sole purpose on the internet is to read comments and correct them, not think nor digest information, just correct, its their means of feeling good with themselves.

  • avatar
    TMA1

    90% of the content on this site worth reading comes from the commenters. Seems unnecessary to police this sort of thing, and enforcement will be arbitrary. Do authors really need to seek validation in the comment section?

    We should all know by now who it is that is going to get under our skin. By now, we should all have the ability to skim past that person’s comments completely.

  • avatar
    redav

    IMO, there are far more ban-worthy offenses than being snarky without reading the article, and many are common (and thus apparently permitted) on these pages. IMO, the quote in the article is poor example of an inappropriate comment.

    I see no benefit to publicly identifying culprits. I do see value in defining and clearly listing the rules. I wasn’t here in the early days, but stories tell of Farago sending personal & private emails to offenders and ripping them a new one. That seems to be a better approach.

    • 0 avatar
      Big Al from Oz

      @redav,
      Inappropriate comments?

      Your comment sounds like you represent the 5% that support political correctness and expect the 95% of “normal” people to bow down to your demands.

      I do think if you do find any commentary inappropriate then I do believe there are alternative sites you could visit and make contributions to like people as yourself.

      Read this and learn;

      http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/edwest/2014/05/political-correctness-gone-mad-and-madder-and-even-madder/

      • 0 avatar
        Xeranar

        Can we stop using ‘Political correctness’ as an insult. It went stale almost 20 years ago and lost any sting outside of some right-wing halls. The point of being ‘politically correct’ is that you need main street to like you, so if you can’t win a political race with that talk then what good is it?

        The whole argument to use PC as an insult is built on being a minority trying to keep the majority from taking a more refined position because it forces you to consider why you are inevitably a bigot (since that’s really what PC language is about…).

        Anyways, carry on.

  • avatar
    Xeranar

    As a general rule not getting angry at commenters is pretty healthy especially lazy ones who don’t read everything. But again, sometimes people just rush off to feel that extra special “gotcha” of getting the journalist. Those people are dicks usually.

    You’re rarely factually wrong, personally I disagree with your reasoning but I find your writing sufficiently factual. :)

  • avatar
    puzinbutz

    This is laughable and pathetic. You clearly were wrong.
    Mexicans often refer to their land as part of the grander “America” (hello, it’s a part of North America).
    I love it when arrogance backfires.

    FYI–In a professional, published piece, it would be referred to as “the United States” or “the United States of America”, not simply “America”. Very sloppy on your part!

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      Congratulations, you’ve won today’s Irony Award.

      • 0 avatar
        puzinbutz

        @Pch – I’m sorry, did I say something ironic or incorrect? Please show me where if so!

        • 0 avatar
          Pch101

          Your post is wrong from start to finish.

          The fact that you are inclined to think that Mexicans determine appropriate English usage is the first hint that you’re not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer.

          • 0 avatar
            puzinbutz

            Did I say Mexicans define the English language?
            I’m sorry you’re ignorant of the fact that there are other Americas out there besides the USA.
            Would you like to engage in some other intellectual conversations where you can be proven wrong again? I can assure you I have a higher IQ than you do, but if you like making comments regarding other people’s intelligence levels, please continue!

          • 0 avatar
            puzinbutz

            My post appears to have been lost.
            Did I ever say Mex!cans define Engl!sh? Your lack of read!ng comprehens!on shows your kn!fe is gett!ng a bit dull.
            Could I speak to you in another language to simpl!fy? I know a handful. Would you like to compare IQ’s?

          • 0 avatar

            My cat’s breath smells like cat food.

          • 0 avatar
            kovakp

            “My cat’s breath smells like cat food.”

            Haven’t seen such a good zen aphorism since carpets were shag and refrigerators were harvest gold.

  • avatar
    Car-los

    Derek in my opinion you showed very poor editorial judgment publishing publishing this article. Makes me wonder if you are up to the job.

  • avatar
    puzinbutz

    This is laughable and pathet!c. You clearly were wrong.
    Mex!cans often refer to their land as part of the grander “Amer!ca” (hello, it’s a part of North Amer!ca).
    I love it when arrogance backf!res.

    FYI–In a profess!onal, publ!shed p!ece, it would be referred to as “the Un!ted States” or “the Un!ted States of Amer!ca”, not simply “Amer!ca”. Very sloppy on your part!

  • avatar
    DukeMantee

    To the “editor”, people say stupid things all the time. Will you be throwing a tantrum every time this happens?

    Ninety nine percent of the time I come here,its for the comments. Buickman,Deadweight,etc etc are kind of a gauge on the younger sets view of the auto world.

    Get over yourself,relax and think about the fact that no one is firebombing your office or murdering you or your family for some paedophile moon god. Think about how lucky we all are to be safe and warm and well fed today.

  • avatar
    tedward

    All I have to say is that if my comment on this one had gotten through I’d be in the running for a “Top Troll” award. What a shame.

  • avatar
    scwmcan

    I think part of this is that as Canadians we don’t understand why the central, and South American countries ( and Mexico) want to be called American. To us it diminishes the national identity of those countries. When we think of America it means the U.S. And too many times we get upset about being labeled as Americans ( technically true as we are ii. The north American continent ) as Americans at the people of the U.S. not Canada. The problem I think is that because American means people ( or products) from the U.S. ( as no one says a United Stateser or Statesian for that purpose) America has become the gernerally accepted short term for the u totes Staes of America, and not the continent unlike Erupoe where European means all of the countries of Europe. North American is the hernial accepted term to refer to countries of North America. And the Americas can sometimes refer to North, central and South America. I do think as Camadians we get a little touchy with America( no s or prefix) being used to describe the North American continet, it is used too often to specifically refer to the U.S. and is at the same time too genre a ( can mean Notrh, central or South American or all three) to be used to accurately indicate what area you a describing if not referring specifically to the U.S.
    To me it isn’t an agree to disagree , but I can understand that somehow in other parts of the world they don’t understand the problem ( and we don’t understand why they don’t see the problem).

    • 0 avatar

      “…unlike Erupoe where European means all of the countries of Europe”

      Except for within the UK, where “European” is used primarily to reference Continental Europe, and people in the UK don’t prefer to be called European, for whatever reason…

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        Because they’re British and an Island which separates them from the European riff-raff. Does anyone in Europe identify themselves as being “European” ?

        • 0 avatar

          I wouldn’t know. But technically, they are *in* Europe, haha

        • 0 avatar
          Pch101

          A Brit who refers to himself as “European” is making a political statement.

          That isn’t quite the case on the continent. Even Euroskeptics may think of themselves as European, even as they reject the EU.

        • 0 avatar
          frenzic

          I’m a native Dutchman (in Western Europe) and I have never ever heard anybody apart from politicians refer to being european. The EU is a politcal construct and most people here are brainwashed to think that without it trade would be impossible and that it is therefore beneficial. The meaning and use of the term bilateral has been hidden under the rug of history. Us older guys just cringe. TL:DR No not many people do other than those that stand to benefit (politicians).

    • 0 avatar

      Scwman

      “( as no one says a United Stateser or Statesian for that purpose) America has become the gernerally accepted short term for the u totes Staes of America”
      The term exists, actually both forms Estadounidense y Americano are correct, at least in Spanish we have the equivalent to UnitedStatesian adjective…

      http://lema.rae.es/drae/?val=estadounidense

      Being Mexican and very close to the border I can tell you that almost nobody I know refers to the US of A as America, for example if we ask where did we got something from Laredo for ex, we say “Lo traje de los Estados Unidos”, or more casual.. “del otro lado” (brought from the other side).

      For example, in every newspaper in Spanish and edited outside the US you won’t see the US referred as America.

      What bother us sometimes is when someone says, You are not America you are Mexico.
      When I see the name America replacing The United States of America on a US Currency bill, perhaps will start to accept calling the US of A, America.

      Ah and nice tunes selections Btw.. ;-)

      Saludos = Best regards!

      • 0 avatar
        -Nate

        ? no one says ” El Norte ” (The North) anymore ?

        I used to travel Mexico quite a bit , always by car and never to Tourist areas , it’s a wonderful Country full of nice friendly people .
        Those who have never experienced Mexico , are missing out .

        -Nate

        • 0 avatar

          Hi Nate,

          Thanks for the comments, and in some places more south of Mexico City, yes specially with migrant people is common to hear, “Se fue al norte” (he/she went to the north) meaning to the USA, but more commonly referred as El otro lado.

          Best regards

          Btw I just made this holidays a road trip from Monterrey, Mx to Denver on a 3008 Peugeot CUV, very interesting trip and whew it’s cold upthere!

  • avatar
    shaker

    From Wikipedia:

    Amerigo Vespucci (Italian pronunciation: [ameˈriːɡo vesˈputtʃi]; March 9, 1454 – February 22, 1512) was an Italian explorer, financier, navigator and cartographer who first demonstrated that Brazil and the West Indies did not represent Asia’s eastern outskirts as initially conjectured from Columbus’ voyages, but instead constituted an entirely separate landmass hitherto unknown to Afro-Eurasians. Colloquially referred to as the New World, this second super continent came to be termed “America”, deriving its name from Americus, the Latin version of Vespucci’s first name.[1][2]

    I don’t know if this adds or subtracts from the discussion.

    I think that the popular acceptance of “America” meaning “The USA” came from the poem/song “America The Beautiful”, whose genesis was at the turn of the 19th/20th century – many had considered making it the National Anthem in place of “The Star-Spangled Banner”.

    • 0 avatar
      Lie2me

      I think we’re called “American” because United Stateser or Statesian sounds lame

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      As I noted, the Brits were referring to their colonials as Americans before there was a United States of America. The term is centuries old.

      Spanish speakers use the term differently. But on this website, we speak English, and Mr. Kreindler was using the term appropriately in English. Some people need to get over it.

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        Yeah, it’s all Britain’s fault, go talk to them if you don’t like the US hoggin’ the “American” name, but you know how those childhood nicknames stick, so good luck with that

      • 0 avatar
        puzinbutz

        @Pch – He said “America”, not “Americans”. And we’re not Brits. So what’s your point?

        • 0 avatar
          Pch101

          I realize that some of you are incapable of anything more than black-and-white thinking, so this will probably soar above your head:

          As English speakers, we get to make rules about the use of the language. And as it turns out, English speakers use “America” to describe the United States of America.

          The usage is correct today, it has been correct for hundreds of years, and it is likely to remain correct for the foreseeable future. The Mexicans are entitled to their preferences, but we don’t have to abide by them.

          • 0 avatar
            puzinbutz

            Irony str!kes again.
            I do sadly have to spell it out for you, however.
            You’re tell!ng us that we need to be more open-m!nded about what “Amer!ca” means, that it’s more than a black-and-wh!te answer. Yet you say, “It’s only the USA”–LOL.
            You f!gure out the rest.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            I should know better than to explain things to the barely literate.

        • 0 avatar
          Lie2me

          “And we’re not Brits”

          Are you POHMs?

  • avatar
    energetik9

    1) I don’t think a ban should be in place with the exception of threats, racism, etc.

    2) not sure if it was the best move to post this editorial in the first place

    3) I think it is in especially poor taste to have publish the original posters name. I think that was a step too far.

  • avatar
    whynotaztec

    All this debate about “America” and no one has yet pointed out the real problem with the post – the use of “off of”

    See you all next week!

  • avatar
    Zackman

    What were we talking about again???

  • avatar
    Ryoku75

    At this point I really wish we could get back to talking about cars, if a reader isn’t going to put the effort into reading an article there’s little reason to make an article about them.

    Don’t let these guys get to you Derek, this is the internet, where “thumbs” determine what makes a comment valid.

  • avatar
    PickupMan

    Posting as requested, even though I have nothing to add. . .or is this the kind of content-free post you were getting at, Derek. :-)

  • avatar
    PonchoIndian

    This is almost a Bertel/Niedermeyer like editorial. If you get sick of working here I’m sure you could move on over to curbside classic :)

    Are you 3 related?

    Why let the comments get to you? You’ll need thicker skin if you don’t want to die of a heart attack before you’re 60

  • avatar
    Victor

    Haven’t we gone a little too far on the Monroe doctrine thing here?… Yes, Derek, I am sorry but you were wrong.

    “America”, geographically-speaking, refers to the whole that goes from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego, in southern Argentina. And my brazilian eyes do receive the “USA = America” thing as a rather pedantry statement. Much like calling “world series” championships that 80% of the WORLD doesn’t even know about. Or even care about. But I digress.

    Anyway, I really do not see a problem in rmigoya’s comment, and I feel you went nuclear on him for nothing. That was the kind of thing I’d expect from Mr. Schimdt, but not from you.

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      English speakers use “America” to describe the USA. You need to get over it.

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        I’ve discovered that people all over the world love to play the “children of a lessor God” card when it comes to anything “American”, it makes them feel better and it doesn’t hurt “Americans” one bit, let it go

      • 0 avatar
        Victor

        And that has nothing to do with Derek’s reaction to a comment that was far from being wrong or unpolite. This is an international website, one that should therefore respect diversity.

        • 0 avatar
          Pch101

          “This is an international website”

          The BBC is an international website — the gold standard for English-language news reporting — and it regularly uses “America” to describe the USA. Just one example: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/events/newsnight/1801121.stm

          Again, you need to get it over it. In English, “America” is usually used as a substitute for the United States of America. Although it isn’t wrong to use “America” to describe the whole of the New World, it is more common for English speakers to refer to North America and South America, rather than just America.

          Don’t try to “correct” Mr. Kreindler for a mistake that he did not make. The only error that he made was not knowing that there are some who are inclined to have a hissy fit over something as petty as this.

    • 0 avatar
      wmba

      Victor, the World Series is called that because it was first sponsored by the Daily World newspaper. I’m Canadian, and even I know that. So you are aggrieved for no reason.

      In the English language, America means USA. The Americas refers to the continent. In Portuguese, you can call the USA whatever you want – but if you write in English you write America, and to argue about it as about as pedantic as you can get.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        The World Series/ New York World story is an urban legend. It was called the World Series because it sounded good; the newspaper didn’t have anything to do with it.

        http://www.snopes.com/business/names/worldseries.asp

        Still, WGAF? It’s a sporting event. Using a baseball game in order to display resentment toward the United States is just petty. If the country is that objectionable, then there should be other things to complain about that are actually relevant.

  • avatar
    CoreyDL

    I think going that far with it just calls attention to those few bad apples, and gives them a spotlight. Those kinds of people don’t stick around here long anyway, so I don’t think it’s necessary to do a call out and a week long ban.

    Plus, by doing this it’s just generating more TTAC clicks to look at something bad. We don’t need any more negativity round here.

  • avatar
    -Nate

    Learnig much here as usual .

    THANK YOU for using a Firesign Theater example ! .

    -Nate
    (living somewhere between Canada & Mexico)

  • avatar
    Sigivald

    If it’d said “North America”, sure.

    There’s only one country with “America” in its name, and there are two with [accounting for translation] “United States”.

    “America” is thus, for the pedants, *less ambiguous* than “United States”.

    (Mexico being the other.

    God bless Vespucciland.)

  • avatar
    WildcatMatt

    “Never argue nomenclature with a pedant. It wastes your time and annoys the pedant.” – Miles Vorkosigan

Read all comments

Back to TopLeave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.

Recent Comments

  • subuclayton: 1965. Driving west through southern Utah on I 15 towards Vegas in the ’59 Vette convertible top...
  • schmitt trigger: Re; Kerosene instead of gasoline I have never filled up a car with kerosene, but I once did on a...
  • pwrwrench: multicam. Obviously you know that 4wd does not mean that you will not get stuck. It means that you will...
  • mcs: I’ve been getting into 3D printing lately. Sure, every part of the printer was from the Shenzen, but...
  • NormSV650: Oshawa, and others went be making ICE vehicles at the end of next decade, let alone BEV.

New Car Research

Get a Free Dealer Quote

Who We Are

  • Matthew Guy
  • Timothy Cain
  • Adam Tonge
  • Bozi Tatarevic
  • Chris Tonn
  • Corey Lewis
  • Mark Baruth
  • Ronnie Schreiber