By on October 2, 2009


A little birdie tell us GMC is raising its prices. Yes, raising.

GMC will announce revised 2009 model year prices effective for all Sierra and Yukon models produced on or after October 1, 2009. All model dealer discounts will be reduced. Dealer invoice amounts will increase accordingly.

Dealer price schedules will be available in GM Dealerworld under Sales &/Or F&I Tabs effective October 1, 2009. Reference administrative message #VSF20040006 (dated February 26,2004) for more information regarding this web site.

Sold order price protection eligibility dates are dictated by the customer and dealer order dates as follows:

-Customer order date must be prior to the date of the price increase.

-GM systems order date (date dealer enters in GM system) must be no more than one work day after date of the price increase.

These units will be invoiced at prices in effect at the date of production; however, the dealer open account will automatically be credited for the price increase once the unit has been delivered.

Fleet units ordered under the Bid Assistance or Cap Programs are price protected under the terms of those programs. Fleet units ordered with FVX, RFC, and VQ’s without VN9 or VX7 are order date price protected on the invoice and dealers have up to 4 work days (GM systems order date) after the day of the price increase to enter the order and the invoice will be priced before the price increase. Fleet units ordered with VN9 or VX7 are order date price protected on the invoice and dealers have up to 1 work day (GM systems order date) after the day of the price increase to enter the order and the invoice will be priced before the price increase. All other fleet orders will be price protected according to the bona fide sold retail price protection policy above. Refer to the price protection effective date on the invoice.

This pricing information is intended for use by authorized GMC dealers and should not be disclosed to unauthorized persons. GMC reserves the right to discontinue or change prices at any time, without written notice. All rights reserved. General Motors proprietary information to be used by authorized GMC dealers, fleet operations, bailment operations, and General Motors wholesale personnel for GMC vehicles. This information shall not be reproduced for or disclosed to third parties without the expressed written permission of GMC General Motors Company.

Please file this administrative message with your 2009 model year pricing information.

It is anticipated that this pricing information will be reflected in the Order Workbench Configure a New Vehicle process at 8:00AM EST Thursday October 8, 2009.

The revised pricing will be reflected in GM AutoBook which will be available on Thursday, October 1, 2009.

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56 Comments on “GMC Raising Vehicle Prices...”


  • avatar
    John Horner

    Are you sure this isn’t for 2010 model year vehicles? I doubt any 2009 vehicles are being built from October onward.

  • avatar
    Cicero

    1st Law of Marketing: When your lemonade isn’t selling at a quarter, try raising the price to a dollar.

  • avatar
    mpresley

    We are living in economic Twilight Zone. In the real world, when I wake up tomorrow, GM and it’s repulsive sibling, Chrysler, will have been left to die a well deserved death, but not propped up by opportunistic politicians. What, you say? I am awake, and this is reality! Better, then, to go back to sleep.

  • avatar
    thirty-three

    Now GM will be able to offer even bigger discounts.

    I wonder if the UAW to ask for higher wages?

  • avatar
    forditude

    It’s not 100% GM’s fault. Save some blame for our lousy politicians who are doing their best to rapidly destroy the little remaining value of the US dollar. Not to mention that the cost of car manufacturing isn’t getting any cheaper.

  • avatar
    golden2husky

    Seems to me that this was the same response that was made by Roger “replace em all with robots” Smith…no doubt with the same results…

  • avatar
    ohsnapback

    I saw this movie before.

    It was called ‘Death Wish.’

    GM should also instruct the dealer to include kicking the customer in the balls upon final vehicle delivery, while they’re at it.

    GM is insane in the membrane, period.

  • avatar
    Da Coyote

    Good. GM will make more money on both cars it sells next year.

  • avatar
    unleashed

    Inflation?
    What inflation???

  • avatar
    tparkit

    GM will indeed make money on both GMC vehicles it sells next year. They will allocate GMC overheads to the Saturn subsidiary before shooting it in the head.

    Government Motors is dying in pieces — NUMMI, Saturn… one by one the shoes drop. Look for Uncle Sam to bridge the long-service UAW members to their pensions.

  • avatar
    FloorIt

    I think John Horner is correct, must be 2010 prices.
    Definitely a bad time for GM to announce an increase but mfg’s have raised prices at any time in the model year.

  • avatar
    gslippy

    +1 on the above comments.

    This is the same formula used by some city governments.
    Q: People fleeing the area, city losing money?
    A: Raise taxes to make up for the lost revenue.

  • avatar
    ronin

    The problem is they’re already overpriced, but they’re actually getting some sales.

    If they are even more overpriced, no one will buy. That will automatically qualify them for more free taxpayer money.

    As I said months ago: GM is NOT in the business of selling cars, nor does it make its revenue numbers that way. It’s true mission statement emphasizes that it will be world’s greatest welfare queen and delight its union members.

    They are planning now to qualify for yet another free handout come January.

  • avatar
    Matt51

    They need an across the board price cut to stimulate sales. Not rebates, cut the list price across the board 10%. Any retailer in business would tell GM that. Higher sales means higher profits, even if the sales price per unit is lower. GM now has the worst management in the world. Could not get any worse.

  • avatar
    don1967

    Talk about screwing a gift horse in the mouth.

    Up here in Canada, a friend of mine recently went shopping for a GM truck. He offered $1,000 over cost and three dealers turned him down, saying that they need more gross to make up for the lack of volume.

    As soon as the ObamaBucks stop flowing – and it will be very soon – the consequences are going to be severe. And in some cases, damned entertaining.

  • avatar
    gmbuoy

    Now the truth :

    GMC Sierras for 2010 get Air Condition now standard and side curtain airbags now standard. The “economic” increase is small.

    fyi: Ever notice the number of GM ads on this site ? That’s about to change if I have my way.

  • avatar

    gmbuoy:

    fyi: Ever notice the number of GM ads on this site ? That’s about to change if I have my way.

    Is that a threat or a promise?

  • avatar
    ClutchCarGo

    Cicero:
    1st Law of Marketing: When your lemonade isn’t selling at a quarter, try raising the price to a dollar.

    While I’m not sure that it applies in this case, perversely enough this is actually effective. Studies in behavioural economics show that higher prices can result in higher perceived value of the same item, e.g. people reporting greater pain relief from the same medication when they’re told that it’s more expensive. The human mind is a very messy place, indeed.

  • avatar
    lw

    I give GM points for consistency.

    GM lowered prices into the floor when money was free and the economy was roaring…

    Now that folks can’t get approved for loans and we have rampant unemployment, RAISE THEM!

  • avatar
    jacad

    Now you are going to see the real reason GM wanted to cut 40% of their dealers. Raise the MSRP, cut the dealer margin, and limit competition. The new dealer agreement states you will stock the number of cars and trucks we tell you to and will be responsible to sell the number we decide later. If not, we cancel you and your multi-million dollar investment like the other suckers.

    Weird science by a bunch of myopic MBA’s who never retailed a vehicle in their life. It will become more and more clear just how out of touch with the consumer GM is.

  • avatar
    lw

    Jacad:

    I fear you are right.. GM is destroying itself.. No amount of bashing by anyone can do more damage than GM can self inflict.

    Very sad…

  • avatar
    Autosavant

    Jacad:

    I fear you are right.. “GM is destroying itself.. No amount of bashing by anyone can do more damage than GM can self inflict.

    Very sad…”

    True, but it is did not just start recently, the arrogant A-holes in GM Management, in bed with the clueless/corrupt labor leadeership, have been at it for 35 years now, losing home games to the Imports every one of these years, and blaming everybody ELSE about it. And now I the taxpayer have to pay their obscene salaries, because the clueless idiots Auto Illiterates in DC said so!

  • avatar
    Pch101

    They need an across the board price cut to stimulate sales.

    Their continual price reductions are a part of the problem. Continuing to do that will ensure their destruction.

    It’s odd how basic sound business practices seem to be unknown in Detroit. If they knew better, they’d do this:

    -Figure out a price per unit at which they could turn a reasonable profit

    -Estimate the quantity of sales that they would have if the vehicles were sold at that price.

    -Build that many vehicles, and sell them.

    That’s it. It’s really as simple as that. Some car buyers will pay more than others. The smart company will sell vehicles only to those people who are willing to pay prices that are high enough that those sales are profitable. Those buyers who don’t want to pay the freight are too expensive to bother with.

    A sale that isn’t profitable isn’t a desirable sale. Cars are not supposed to be commodities. If those who make them come to believe that they are, then the company is toast.

  • avatar
    motownr

    Raising prices at MSRP while cutting dealer margin will only compound the NET price increase to the customer.

    GMC follows Cadillac on this misguided “we ain’t car people and we’re going to prove it” directive. The new margins for Cadillac dealers make it very difficult to justify doing anything other than increasing the focus on USED (not new) vehicles. You can’t keep the lights on when you make $3K on a $50K SRX if you’re lucky enough to sell at full sticker.

    The problem with being owned by know-nothings is that they automatically assume that EVERYTHING at GM is broken and must be tinkered with. The reality is different.

  • avatar
    Matt51

    You have huge fixed investment. Increased volume provides wonders to the bottom line. Cut prices, move metal. Increase profits result. Retail 101. People running Kohl’s, Walmart or Sears would do vastly better managing GM at this point. Even without car knowledge. Total fools now at GM.

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    gmbuoy :
    October 3rd, 2009 at 7:45 am

    Now the truth :

    GMC Sierras for 2010 get Air Condition now standard and side curtain airbags now standard. The “economic” increase is small.

    Part of journalism – at least the journalism they taught me in journalism school – is digging behind the facts and discovering the “why.”

    If so, the headline wouldn’t have read “GMC Raising Vehicle Prices”; it’d have read “GMC Raising Vehicle Prices and Increasing Standard Equipment”.

    One wonders why that wasn’t the case.

  • avatar
    Pch101

    Increased volume provides wonders to the bottom line.

    If that was true, GM would be awash in profits. GM filed bankruptcy because it pursued market share at the expense of price.

    Sales volume without pricing power produces massive losses. Much of the cost of car production is variable (parts and materials), so these margins count.

    Trying to sell second-rate dreck to everyone, when many consumers don’t want to pay enough to generate a profit, makes no sense. The way to create profitability is to make vehicles that are good enough that consumers will buy them in large enough quantities without discounting.

  • avatar
    kaleun

    gmbuoy :
    October 3rd, 2009 at 7:45 am

    Now the truth :

    GMC Sierras for 2010 get Air Condition now standard and side curtain airbags now standard. The “economic” increase is small.

    Kidding? They had AC and curtain airbags as an option? I mean, honda fit has that standard, or any car anyone ever would consider. what else was an option, steering wheel, horn?

    and you wonder why no one buys their cars and trucks…

  • avatar
    jpcavanaugh

    gmbouy:

    Most of us out here would really like to see GM succeed. More good choices are always better than fewer, and real competition makes everyone stonger. The problem is that the only thing those of us on the outside see is that all of GM’s problems are somehow our fault. If only we would recognize that GM is God’s gift to the automotive world and would run, not walk, to our nearest GM dealer, suddenly it would be 1960 again.

    Well, it is not 1960 and GM has been building cars and trucks that do not appeal to enough people outside of current GM customers for way too long now. GM has been an arrogant company for decades. But in the 1950s and 60s, arrogance was understandable. I believe that it was Babe Ruth who said “it ain’t braggin if ya done it.” GM hasn’t been “doing it” since the 1970s.

    Most of the posts I see here raise genuine issues that are of concern to those of us who love cars. An example is the recent failed Ebay experiment. All we in carbuyer land wanted to hear from New GM is “Well, not all ideas work out. We thought it was worth a try, but the program was not successful. But we think that we learned some valuable lessons that will help our marketing efforts in the future.”
    But what did we get? We were all told how successful this program was before GM decided to end it. What a success! A round of drinks for everyone!

    This may come as a shock, but if Mark LaNeve can’t call a failure a failure, Nobody will believe anything he says. And he is not just talking for himself, he is talking for GM.

    So your post threatening to cut all the ad dollars from TTAC (and implying that you have the power to do so) is one more example of what so many on this site already know: GM continues to be both arrogant and deluded. You tell us how great you are but can’t understand why nobody believes you.

    In 1979 when Chrysler went to the feds for loan guarantees (with no money to be spent by the government unless Chrysler went under, by the way), GM’s chairman Thomas Murphy thundered on about how this bailout was an affront to the free enterprise system. But 30 years later, when it is YOUR company with its hand out, GM is entitled to this help, and anyone who disagrees is either stupid or a bad American.

    Truth time: YOUR company’s failures are not MY fault. YOUR company’s failures are, however, spilling blood all over me and the rest of us who read this site. The people at the top of your comany continue to make bad decisions that result in cars that are not all that they could or should be. And when you do get decent product into the showroom, we sit here and helplessly watch as GM shoots itself in the foot over and over again. GM is assuredly not alone in this predicament, but GM IS alone in its complete failure to acknoledge that ANY of thes problems could possibly be self-inflicted.

    Please try to understand that those who read and post to this site are the most passionate but demanding customers out there. If you can win us over, you will have made it. This site and its comments offers you a tremendous opportunity to get some straight feedback on why you are where you are. Will you please TRY to win our business rather than just shooting another messenger?

  • avatar
    unleashed

    As soon as the ObamaBucks stop flowing – and it will be very soon – the consequences are going to be severe. And in some cases, damned entertaining.

    What severe consequences are you talking about?
    Haven’t we been through this scenario already?

    The only entity that will truly suffer is the American taxpayer.
    Hey, I find it strange that you think of it as entertainment – the taxpayer being raped, that is.

  • avatar
    Bridge2far

    “Is that a threat or a promise?”

    That reply says it all. Two of several of the last postings (GM October Incentive list) are merely reprints of GM communication to the dealer body. A reliable “mole” has obviously forwarded it and it’s simply thrown to the shark tank for brilliant dissemination.

  • avatar
    Happy_Endings

    Increased volume provides wonders to the bottom line. Cut prices, move metal. Increase profits result.

    Only if you’re still making money on each sale. GM is losing money now on each sale with higher prices, how could they make a profit selling for even less? The only way this could work is if the long term plan is get Americans used to paying closer to MSRP. Cutting MSRP to a point that is much closer to what market value is now might work, but you have sell the car at that price and stick to it. No negotiations, no incentives, no gimmicks.

  • avatar
    carnutz

    Dude, that is sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • avatar
    Dave M.

    I don’t recall ever seeing GM-paid ads on this site, so I’m guessing it’s a promise.

  • avatar
    Juniper

    Dave M. :
    October 3rd, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    I don’t recall ever seeing GM-paid ads on this site, so I’m guessing it’s a promise

    Really?
    There was a “May the best car win” ad on my screen just now. I see a lot of Chevy and Buick LaCrosse ads. Is it a local thing or what? Ad filter?

  • avatar
    gmbuoy

    Jpcavanaugh at al :

    A little more truth :

    The editorial slant of this site is to look at anything from GM and find the worst slant at it you can as fast as you can. This story is a very clear example of that. Prices going up = Bad Greedy Inept etc. The truth is standard equipment has been increased for competitive reasons with a small economic adjustment (called profit).

    9/10 times things like A/C and Airbags were not standard was for Gov’t or Fleet customers looking for the lowest transaction price possible.

    To the average American / Canadian Tax Payer thank you very much for your help. I can tell you that everyone I work with at GM is struggling to make sure that we pay your investment back as fast as we can. We will do that by delivering great products to customers at a profit they are willing to pay us.
    We completely understand that there are no second chances on this an we are going to get it right.

    For Jp, given that the downsizing of most of this company has come at the expense of junior and the over 53 years old cohorts, what does anything from the time when we were in high school got to do with the reality of today. I get it, you got burned by your X Car, that car was out of production by the time I got my first degree. Have you driven a 2LT Malibu, a CTS a 2010 Equinox, an Astra, an Enclave all are FANTASTIC products the equal of some of the other FANTASTIC products out there.

    RF I recently pointed out to someone involved with the part of the Google Ads purchase, the editorial reality of this site and asked if this was a place their dollars should be placed. Up to them to determine if they want to be here. My hope they won’t.

    To those who do not see the ads I believe your ip is not in the target range GM has targetted with its purchase.

  • avatar
    Matt51

    A 16 million car market would make GM profitable. Ain’t gonna happen any time soon. Raising prices in a Depression will just kill them sooner, I guess they might as well commit suicide and get it over with.

  • avatar
    gmbuoy

    Matt51

    Documents on file with the U.S. Gov’t say that GM plans to be profitable in a 10 million market. Fritz and his team are working to that. As Fritz has said before, we plan to win and disagree with your advice.

  • avatar
    unleashed

    Documents on file with the U.S. Gov’t say that GM plans to be profitable in a 10 million market.

    When the U.S. Government claims something, it must be true.
    Yeah, right…

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    don1967 :
    October 3rd, 2009 at 7:09 am

    As soon as the ObamaBucks stop flowing – and it will be very soon – the consequences are going to be severe. And in some cases, damned entertaining.

    Oh, yeah, it’ll be a real ball to watch hundreds of thousands of people tossed out on their asses. What fun to watch unemployment in states like Michigan reach Weimar Republic levels.

    Har Har Har. Real laff-riot.

  • avatar
    rudiger

    It’s the rebates, stupid.

    Try as the D3 might, it’s an impossibility for the American auto consumer to buy domestic iron without (big) money on the hood. So, they do the marketing psychology thing by raising MSRP (regardless of how poor sales might be), then follow it with an even bigger rebate than before the MSRP was raised.

    The net price remains the same but the consumer thinks they’re getting a huge deal. It sounds ludicrious, but it’s been proven to work time and again. It’s really all Detroit has left to move the metal.

  • avatar
    jpcavanaugh

    gmbouy: OK, I understand now. I am a hopeless blithering buffoon, and none of my experience is relevant to those of you at GM. I and others on this site who have a problem with “the GM Way” just don’t understand. Its our problem, not yours. I am sure that you are right, and all of this will work out because this next quarter is just going to be fantastic for you.

    You are plainly too young to know what GM used to be. Both sides of my extended midwestern family drove almost nothing else from the 60s through the 80s. Out of maybe 30 cars I can recall maybe 3 that were not GM (after factoring out my Dad, who was a diehard FoMoCo guy). I just attended a family funeral and many of those people were there. Know how many GM cars were in the parking lot? Not O-N-E. A Ford, a Lincoln and the rest Hondas.

    But I don’t know why I even bring this up, because it plainly has nothing to do with GM. I guess the rest of my extended family are just as stupid as I am. But I am sure you are better off without us. We are probably just an isolated phenomenon anyway.

  • avatar
    Happy_Endings

    A 16 million car market would make GM profitable. Ain’t gonna happen any time soon.

    They weren’t profitable in 16 million car market before. Why would this change now?

    Documents on file with the U.S. Gov’t say that GM plans to be profitable in a 10 million market.

    Kind of sounds like someone who plans on balancing the household budget by winning the lottery.

  • avatar
    Matt51

    gmbouy – Denial is not just the name of a river in Egypt.

  • avatar
    gmbuoy

    Matt51 :

    I think your point to me really is why don’t you go away and crawl into a hole and die. Well Bud, me and my kind don’t run from a challenge we pitch in and put 60 hour weeks in and when they ask us to work for the pay of 37 we say ok. And we don’t get overtime, ever, not in 20 years here. Why because we are passionate about what we do and think that it matters.

    jpcavanaugh :

    Lamenting about the former glory that GM was in the 1960’s is just not useful. No one is left at GM that was making real decisions in the 80’s. and all of those who were making decisions are now maxed out at 100 Grand a year pension. Fritz started in 1983.

    The issue is what is GM today and what can it be tomorrow.

    Can you answer the next question intellectually and honestly ?

    Are the Malibu, the Enclave, the Camaro, the Silverado, the CTS, and the Cruze not FANTASTIC products competing head to head against other equally great products in the market ?

    If your answer involves either a rant about something that happened prior to 2002. You can’t. If your answer debates the merits of Government involvement in the private sector. You can’t.

    Correction: A/C on the pickup was standard, it was the delete A/C option that was taken away this year. Sidebags have been made standard.

  • avatar
    Happy_Endings

    Are the Malibu, the Enclave, the Camaro, the Silverado, the CTS, and the Cruze not FANTASTIC products competing head to head against other equally great products in the market ?

    Of those vehicles that are currently available, they are by in large competitive, not “FANTASTIC”. Competiting head to head against other products in it’s class is the definition of competitive. I’m not sure why the Cruze is included since it isn’t even available in NA yet. If GM is going to attract new buyers and sell their vehicles for higher prices (and consequently, make profits), they have to be better than the competition.

  • avatar
    jacad

    I agree fully with gmbuoy that there are a number of GM workers who are highly dedicated and hard working. I have seen it first hand. The problem is management decisions and a bloated decision making process tied to cronyism and days gone by.

    While he mentions “Fantastic” products, his examples don’t hold up to scrutiny. Yes the Siverado is great as well as the Envoy…both in rapidly dying segments. The CTS finishes a distant third to the competition’s C class and 3 series in sales. The Malibu sales are dwarfed by the Camry and the Accord and the Camaro is a niche player at best. Who knows what fortunes the Cruze will bring.

    This all is sad commentary on a company who in the late innings lost a huge lead and sank into bankruptcy and abject failure. But, we now give them billions and keep the same players at the top all the while expecting different results. The definition of insanity.

  • avatar
    wmba

    @jpcavanaugh:

    Your first post above — fantastic. Summarizes exactly what’s up with GM in as complete a fashion with as few words as I believe is possible. The perfect precis.

    @GMbuoy:

    There you are, flailing away burning the midnight oil, laboring to bring us the latest in GM’s idea of what a car should be. You are toiling away in an out-of-date environment, where true engineering cooperation has not occurred. Hence the overwork. Read the IVMP books from MIT to find out how. GM management is entrenched in the 1930s thinking.

    And no, I am not happy that you are squandering my tax dollars to bring out “fantastic” vehicles that are in fact only fair, as anyone with a brain in their head can plainly see. Don’t work hard on my behalf to bring out more of this crap. I neither asked for the effort nor do I appreciate it. Go away and foist your blathering on someone else – I couldn’t care less about your travails.

    You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink. No indeed, the horse kicks you in the shins instead for your troubles.

    Go away, GM.

  • avatar
    John Horner

    Saturn was a FANTASTIC brand right up until GM pulled the plug.

    GM is still led by an arrogant, insular management team which all in all doesn’t actually know what it is doing. But hey, you have to pay the big bucks to get world-class talent, right? Those poor under payed executives at Toyota, Honda and Hyundai are all bush league players who can’t cut it with the A-team from GM.

  • avatar
    don1967

    Unleashed and Freedmike,

    It will be entertaining to watch those car companies who became arrogant after suckling at the public teat go down in flames. That is all I meant by that remark, so let’s not put words in my mouth, shall we?

    The ObamaBucks have done nothing but further indebt the U.S. The financial system is still dysfunctional, and General Motors is still a zombie walking. When the money dries up, be prepared for massive shutdowns, devaluation of the U.S. dollar, and stagflation in the years ahead. These are not pretty times.

  • avatar
    jpcavanaugh

    gmbouy: OK, I’ll bite. First, I will acknowledge that I have not driven any of these. You must acknowledge that none has been out long enough to learn if it will be affected by the next cracked manifold/Dexcool/insert other endemic GM premature failure here.

    Malibu: Not bad. I drove the last generation and it was truly awful. We had one as a rental a couple of years ago. My wife, who is not a huge car nut, HATED it. As did my kids. Anyway, it seems narrow for the class, and is truly butt-ugly from the front, though quite attractive from the side. It lacks the reputation of CamCord (and even Fusion) and is not outselling any of these. Grade: B

    Enclave. Gives a nice impression. Styling is not bad. It is the first Buick that gives an impression of a premium car in decades. But why buy an Enclave? What does it have that are lacking in a Traverse, Acadia, or the Saturn version that I cannot recall the name of? How is its resale?
    Grade: B+

    Camaro. Styling is over the top. I understand that it is a good performer. I prefer the look of the Charger. What about the failing transmissions that I was reading about at the beginning. Another example of classic GM underspec or lack of quality control with its suppliers. And it is about 5 years too late.
    Grade: B-

    Silverado: Not attractive. Does not have the reputation of Ford for durability. As long as I have been alive, Chevys have been more pleasant to drive but Fords have been tougher and more durable. I am seeing rust holes on the last generation Silverado already, but not on Fords (or even Dodges, for that matter). This is a truck for GM buyers, and is not going to convert Ram or F series fans. It is way better than Toyota. If I had any confidence that Dodge is built the way it should be, Chevy would be no. 3 in a 3 horse race. But Chrysler being what it is, Chevy runs second (and not a close second).
    Grade: B

    CTS: OK, it is a more impressive car than the Lincoln. Whoo Hoo. But it is in some rarified company here. The V version (soon to be discontinued, as I understand) is impressive. But will this car sell to Audi/Benz/BMW buyers? Resale issues have prevented leasing and Cadillac lacks the prestige factor that (like it or not) is very important to buyers in this class. I personally do not care for the styling, but maybe this is just me. The car has been out a couple of years and is not setting the world on fire. And if the only really competitive vehicle Cadillac has is the entry level, this is a huge problem. The only reason BMW’s 3 series is successful is because there are 7s and 5s.
    Grade: B

    Cruze: You have got to be kidding. It is not even out yet. But here is its problem. GM has NEVER built a competitive (let alone class-leading) small car. I hope that the Cruze is a heckuva car. I also hope that the Chrysler C200 is a heckuva car. GM’s small cars have always had three pools of buyer: Customers for whom GM is always first choice no matter what (and this used to be a HUGE demographic. Now, not so much); price shoppers and fleets. Cruze has an uphill climb against some stiff competition. I hope it is successful.
    Grade: incomplete

    The vehicles that you have cherry-picked from the GM stable are competitive vehicles and GM has nothing to be embarrassed about here. This is a good thing. However, they are not world beaters or best in class by any standard. These vehicles represent what should be GM’s minimum standard: a solid class-competitive vehicle that the buyer can be proud of.

    There. No rants, and a hopefully intellectual discussion of the cars themselves. But now, consider the Cobalt, the Canyon/Colorado, the Impala, the Lucerne, and virtually everything else that has not come out in the last 2 years? Consider that independent sources such as Consumer Reports rate many of your vehicles more troublesome than average as time and mileage take their toll. Yet, we were told when they came out what fantastic, class leading vehicles they were.

    So, my question to you: A company’s products are only as good as the company’s organization and systems. Your company’s organization and systems have been famously problematic, resulting in years of substandard product being bought by an ever-shrinking pool of existing customers. Yet we were always told how fabulous and class-leading the product was, though we knew that it was not.
    Consider also that the new GM is largely the same company as the old GM, with largely the same personnel, systems and background. You don’t know what you don’t know. There has been no infusion of fresh ideas/outlook into the top 3 layers or so of management to bring a new outlook.
    So, why should those of us on the outside believe that this time it’s really different when from here, all of the inputs look the same? Put another way, you cant cut grass with a trowel, though GM has been trying to. How do we really know that you now have a lawnmower?

    I would appreciate a response in the same tone as I have tried to give you, so please no cheerleading, flagwaving or promises about how hard everyone is working. I freely acknowledge that your company is full of people who want to do the best they can, so lets just move beyond that one.

  • avatar
    Matt51

    Bizarre response – I never told you to go lie in a hole and die. Just open you eyes and see where GM is headed. Employees working 60 hours a week won’t save GM with the clowns there running the show.
    Based on styling, I rate the Camaro a miss. 2011 Mustang will beat it in every way.
    Malibu – where are the sales? It may be a really nice car, but I would buy the Ford, based on styling and price.
    I like Lutz, he had the impossible task of turning around the battleship. Too little, too late. And, I admit, I think the Impala represents good value. Nice interior, nice driving car.

  • avatar
    gmbuoy

    Jp –

    Except for Impala the Cobalt,Colorado,Lucerne all have announced phase out dates that are less than 18 months away some much sooner. Not refreshes, end of production and then either new products come on line or we exit the segment.

    The industry accepted model change over timeframe is 30 months from inception to job one. Even Toyota and Honda admit that, they just start the clock 6 months later and tell the journalists that arent on the auto beat it took 24 months. So those GM vehicles you describe as two year old started life 5 years ago.

    Now the reality, a car company is a massive thing that takes time to turn around. Sorry thats how long it takes, we wish to God it would be faster but you play the cards your dealt.

    People ? People, I don’t know the figure but it is somewhere between 25 and 40 percent of the white collar workers this company has separated in N.A. two years. The hit to the hourly force is even bigger. With the elimination of Pontiac and Saturn we have ended relationships with some of the finest people and retailers I have ever met anywhere.

    And as for outside ideas, tell me how that worked for Chrysler, those Cerberus best and brightest really did the job didn’t they. Those guys from Stutgart turned things around before Cerburus got there, didn’t they.

    Lutz was the outsider given free rein in 2002 and his impact is now just seeing its full impact in the vehicles for sale today.

    New direction from the top is fine, Bryan Nesbitt sure seems like a good idea, but I choose Tom Stephens over somebody fresh off the boat looking for the short term bonus. I’ll pick Lutz who has stared the bean counters down at 3 car companies and won every time. I’ll take Fritz Henderson who showed the Governments of Canada and the U.S. that 50 billion now that they were going to back when this works is better than the 120 Billion over the next year in social costs that they wouldn’t get back.

    I’ve driven every vehicle I quoted, that is why I picked them, okay I cheated I didn’t mention the Terrain, the Lacrosse, the Corvette, Uplander or the G6 I’ve also driven in the last two years either, as I thought you would have no luck finding one to test drive, and the Cruze starts production in May so you should be able to see one by June.

    But that is my point to all, take the chip off your shoulder sometime, phone a dealership and ask if you can come in and take a test drive.

    But you may find that we have an inventory issue on some of these great vehicles at the moment, why cause we shut down the plants during bankruptcy and we seem to be selling a lot of them at the same time.

    If you get blown off in Canada call 1-800-GM-DRIVE and somebody will be glad to help you out.

    If that doesn’t work go “Ask Fritz” I can tell you from personal experience those issues that are fixable get straightened out fast. I’ve had one assignment from it and at the bottom of it was a breakdown in communication. GM’s policy and what the customer expected where the same.

    I hope in the U.S. the Chevrolet or Cadillac or Buick customer help center can do the same.

    The cause of the manifold issue was discovered and stopped in 2003 no ? Since ithat problem developed in the first 2 years I would say we should not be expecting that one to crop up again in any of the current powertrains.

    WMBA: Thank you my point exactly. Not truth just opinion.

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    don1967 :
    October 4th, 2009 at 10:24 am

    Unleashed and Freedmike,

    It will be entertaining to watch those car companies who became arrogant after suckling at the public teat go down in flames. That is all I meant by that remark, so let’s not put words in my mouth, shall we?

    And who will pay the price for your entertainment? Hundreds of thousands of people who had nothing to do with the poor management decisions that sank the company. That’s not entertaining, in my book.

  • avatar
    rnc

    It’s not 100% GM’s fault. Save some blame for our lousy politicians who are doing their best to rapidly destroy the little remaining value of the US dollar.

    This is the best thing that could happen to american industry, especially automotive, for 30-40 (especially the 80’s) years the dollar was kept artificially overvalued as part of the cold war (Our dollar is strong, we are strong, and if we can buy everything everyone makes then they won’t go commie) and just like England in 1919, that decision destroyed manufacturing through a competetive disadvantage that could only be made up by relocating (the other option, cutting cost of product, inevitably leads to cutting quality, which reduces purchases, which requires more cost cutting, etc. and we all know how that works out)

  • avatar
    Bridge2far

    jpcavanaugh :
    Excellent points-
    Malibu-Drove a previous version and you don’t like the “look”.
    Camaro- you prefer the heavier and less performing Dodge. (I guess it wasn’t 5 years late). And you also point out a rumored trans problem that never seemed to exist.
    CTS- you almost give a thumbs up! You also erroneously cite resale problems for lack of a lease program (It’s GMAC in case you didn’t know) and of course you don’t like the “look”.

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