By on February 8, 2016

2013 Dodge Dart GT

Duncan writes:

Because I want a car that will depreciate faster than my 2014 Genesis 5.0 R-Spec, I inquired at a local Pennsylvania Dodge dealer about a 2016 Dart GT with a manual transmission. After a week of them trying to order one for me, I was told that the factory would not sell the Dart GT with a manual transmission to PA dealers because of something to do with emissions.

I figured I was being given the runaround so I did a search and, sure enough, there were no 2016 Dodge Dart GTs with manual transmissions for sale in PA.

What gives?

I can’t say I have ever heard of someone wanting to trade in their semi-luxury, full-size sedan for a lukewarm compact that’s about to be killed off. Nor have I ever thought Dodge would thwart a potential sale based on not meeting emissions while, at the same time, buying all those CAFE credits every year.

However, the reason the dealer provided you for not being able to order a Dodge Dart GT with a stick is right and wrong at the same time.

Pennsylvania is one of 13 states that have adopted California’s emissions standards. The others are Arizona, Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont and Washington. That makes it more difficult to sell vehicles in these states and why California-based “The Price is Right” always mentions those free cars meeting such standards.

Nonetheless, Dodge itself declared the Dodge Dart GT a Partial Zero Emission Vehicle (PZEV) in 2015:

New for the 2015 model year, the 2.4-liter Tigershark MultiAir2 engine is available as a Partial Zero Emission Vehicle (PZEV), which entails a new fuel filler neck, new air cleaner, new engine downpipe, revised fuel tank, modified vapor purge canister and new fuel cap. This engine is available in the 14 California Air Resources Board (CARB) states.

That seems like a lot of engineering. So why is it that the Dodge Dart GT can’t be sold in Pennsylvania when Dodge themselves went through all the extra effort of engineering the car to meet the CARB standard?

As it turns out, FCA’s ordering system was on the fritz.

“Your inquiry this morning alerted us to an internal glitch in the system dealers use to order cars,” explained Kathy Graham, FCA’s product public relations manager for compact and mid-size vehicles. “In short, there was confusion in the system between the PZEV engine and the 50 state engines, and it showed that dealers couldn’t order a Dart GT manual in Pennsylvania. We’ve corrected the error and dealers in Pennsylvania should now be able to order a Dart GT with a manual transmission.”

Fortunately for FCA, manual Dodge Dart GTs are a small percentage of overall Dart sales and the glitch was short lived, but it did affect all CARB states.

So, thanks to TTAC, you can now order a manual Dodge Dart GT in Pennsylvania … or Maine, or Vermont, or California.

You’re welcome — or sorry.

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105 Comments on “Ask the Editor: Why Can’t I Buy a Dodge Dart GT Manual in PA?...”


  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    “Pennsylvania is one of 13 states that have adopted California’s emissions standards.”

    Oh lord, we’re becoming the PRK.

    • 0 avatar
      30-mile fetch

      Don’t fight it, it will just hurt more.

    • 0 avatar
      bball40dtw

      The People’s Commonwealth!

    • 0 avatar
      NoGoYo

      I guess my T-Bird’s not gonna pass inspection next year, what with the never-fixed bad O2 sensor.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        I think it only applies to vehicles when sold new.

        http://mde.maryland.gov/programs/Air/MobileSources/CleanCars/Pages/states.aspx

        Ah maybe I spoke too soon, it seems the fail is strong among us:

        ” (a) Starting with the model year 2008, a person may not sell, import, deliver, purchase, lease, rent, acquire, receive, title or register a new light-duty vehicle, subject to the Pennsylvania Clean Vehicles Program requirements, in this Commonwealth that has not received a CARB Executive Order for all applicable requirements of Title 13 CCR, incorporated herein by reference.”

        http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/025/chapter126/subchapDtoc.html

        Now the question becomes, is PENNDOT actually enforcing this? So I move here from West Virginia let’s say with an MY10 Volvo, is there a list somewhere which if my vehicle isn’t on it they say no we won’t let your register this?

        • 0 avatar
          NoGoYo

          Good. I can continue polluting, yay!

          Of course, the occasional oil clouds are more polluting than whatever engine issues a bad O2 sensor causes.

          • 0 avatar
            MRF 95 T-Bird

            MY 95 with the 4.6 V8 has 4 of them, 2 on each side of the Y-pipe. Over the years I’ve replaced a couple of them due to CEL but since it is over 20 years old NYS only requires the yearly safety inspection.

        • 0 avatar
          dal20402

          You’re missing the word “new.” As in California, you can still bring your six-year-old Volvo from West Virginia. You just can’t buy a new one from a dealer in WV and bring it home unless it meets CARB standards (which it probably does — most cars for sale are 50-state compliant).

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            There you go whipping out dem legal skillz on me dawg :)

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            dal20402, esq. to the rescue.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            I had to figure this out when I was thinking about buying a used LS460 from a non-CARB state. (Although I ended up buying from CA in the end.)

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Ah, just to be clear it wouldn’t have been an issue then because your were buying used?

          • 0 avatar
            mason

            Are annual emissions tests any different in those 14 states compared to the rest?

            This is an area I have zero experience in. I’ve always lived in a county that does not require annual inspections.

          • 0 avatar
            carguy67

            California does not have annual emissions testing. New cars are exempt for the first four years from new, then the tests are required every other year. I just had my 2008 Mustang GT ‘smogged;’ it took about 15 minutes and consisted of a quick check of the emissions equipment–just to confirm it hasn’t been tampered with–and gas cap, and a reading from the ODB II port. They usually run from $30-50.

            My ’67 Austin-Healey does not need to be smogged–ever–and there are no safety/roadworthy inspections, annual or otherwise (I’m ambivalent about this; I keep my rides in good nick, but many don’t).

          • 0 avatar
            Scoutdude

            @28 cars no you cn not go out of state, buy a non CA compliant vehicle and bring it into the states of Californication. To bring in a no CA compliant vehicle you need to have owned it in another state, while a resident of that state, for a minimum amount of time.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            Correct. Used cars over a certain (fairly minimal) age/mileage are fine. New or nearly-new cars are the issue.

            Washington’s emissions tests are being phased out. No emissions tests for any cars newer than 2008. 1996-2008 is an OBDII scan. 1991-1995, only, gets the tailpipe sniffer, which any remotely correctly running car should pass without issue. (My ’95 Legend with 185,000 miles and leaky valve seals, since fixed, passed very easily.)

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Thanks guys.

            “Washington’s emissions tests are being phased out.”

            I’m doing the Home Alone face in shock at something gov’t does being phased out – esp anything involving the Green Religion.

          • 0 avatar
            carguy67

            I brought a ’96 Cherokee–with the awesome 2.5L I4 engine–into CA from FL about 10 years ago, and I’ve never lived in FL (the car was an ex-girlfriend’s that I, uh, ‘inherited’). All that was required was that the car be made CA emissions compliant, which required a new cat and I got the cat-back parts–pipes and muffler–replaced as well (about $500). I don’t recall any onerous fees, but the car only had a KBB of about $2,500 at the time.

            I know it’s a lot more fun to slam California than to actually research the facts, but the fact is–horror stories notwithstanding–the CA DMV has been improving. As for the CARB, my feelings are mixed but we’ve gone from LA-bad air across the state to good air quality at most times in most places (LA and the Central Valley could still stand some improving). Did anyone notice how horrible the air quality was at the Super Bowl (I live about 5 miles from Levi’s)? Thought not.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            California DOT, CalTrans, was one of the more efficient DOTs around when I started my first job in 2005 (I worked for a company selling CAD software and we had about 25 DOTs as clients). I do not know if this is still the case.

          • 0 avatar
            mason

            @carguy, i find it interesting that Cali only requires inspections every other year. My neighboring county requires annual inspections. I know for a fact it is a basic “safety” inspection, I.E. all lights/signals working properly, min tire depth, crack free windshield, etc. They also ensure the exhaust is intact as it was from the factory and they do a basic OBD scan but I’m not sure if they do any sniff tests. I’ve been expecting our county to follow suit for many years but surprisingly they haven’t. We are largely an agricultural and sparsely populated county, so I suppose that’s kept us off the radar.

        • 0 avatar
          JimInRadfordVA

          Hmm..The letter of the law says “new”. You’d be coming in with a used car. Not sure how that affects you.

    • 0 avatar
      7402

      Well, the good news is that you get a longer warranty on your catalytic converter!

      • 0 avatar
        PrincipalDan

        The only place they do emissions tests in New Mexico is Albuquerque. So we may live under “California Emissions” and my MSD Ignition on my Mustang has a nice “CARB Legal” sticker to go with it but no one outside Albuquerque is ever going to hook up the sniffer and check if everything is compliant.

        I could find a Ford 460 Police Interceptor and drop it in my Mod Motor F150 and no one would be any wiser as long as I didn’t move to Albuquerque.

      • 0 avatar
        Scoutdude

        Not necessarily, in my state of Californiaction, WA they adopted the emissions standards but not the emissions warranty requirements. The tree huggers to the south in OR adopted both on the other hand.

    • 0 avatar
      OneAlpha

      Mr. Burns invited us to his house in…Pennsylvania!

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        MR BURNS: Hmm, who is that goat-legged fellow? I like the cut of his jib.

        SMITHERS: The Prince of Darkness, sir. He’s your eleven o’clock.

        • 0 avatar
          Eiriksmal

          https://frinkiac.com/?p=caption&q=i+like+the+cut+of+his+jib&e=S05E05&t=158657&m=+HMM.+WHO%27S+THAT+GOAT-LEGGED+FELLOW%3F+I+LIKE+THE+CUT+OF+HIS+JIB.+UH%2C+PRINCE+OF+DARKNESS%2C+SIR.+HE%27S+YOUR+11%3A00.

          Thanks to the brave fellows behind Frinkiac, the world is now complete.

    • 0 avatar
      Xeranar

      You live in a liberal state in a liberal city. You’re surprised? I suggest you move out of my beloved state by 2022, the end of the right-wing legislature is coming. The new anti-gerrymandering districts is going to shift a huge number of seats back towards Democrats and Wolf will likely be handing off his Governorship to the next Democrat. But hey, there is always Alabama…

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Pennsylvania is Philadelphia and Pittsburgh with Alabama in between.

        -JAMES CARVILLE

        https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/James_Carville

        Long term, say the next two decades, it won’t matter as the nation will be divided into warring regions with the only significant variable being how they will control the demolition in order to prevent the accidental use of WMDs. I’m sure whomever is in charge then will be kind to the old Bolsheviks who helped steer events to that point… let’s ask Mussolini.

        • 0 avatar
          carguy67

          “… the nation will be divided into warring regions …”

          Unfortunately, I think you’re correct (‘Red’ vs. ‘Blue’). We’re already getting a lot of refugees from Red States here in CA.

        • 0 avatar
          Xeranar

          . . .I had to laugh but I also realize you’re going to be joining Ammon Bundy-types eventually and I worry about your sanity. :(

          How bad do you think it is getting? The war is over, the red voters as a people are depleting themselves. Jim Crow hangers on won’t be alive in two decades in any measurable number. This is the last throws of a white male privilege movement that is desperate for a victory today to reset the clock on their own demise as a group. Frankly, it can’t come soon enough. But thanks for confusing both fascism, communism, and modern first world liberal for the same thing. You must think Sweden is a complete warzone…

          • 0 avatar
            Vulpine

            @Xeranar: While I agree with you 100% on the reasoning, he may be right on how we get there; more and more it’s turning into a ‘shooting war’ between White Supremacists and the rest of the country here in the US. These people are causing the very issues they claim the government wants to do, like “take away our guns.” If they were truly responsible, there would be no complaint about what our government is doing, not because it’s the Government, but because with the exception of extremists even within our government, it’s policies actually make sense for the protection of the average American. Those extremists within the government, along with those extremists outside of the government, are the ones forcing the overall Government to become more restrictive just to protect everybody else from them.

  • avatar
    seth1065

    hey can you check with VW and see if I really can order plaid seats and a Pano roof on a GTI? Maybe it is just a glitch in their system and I may be in the market soon.

    On a serious point from reading this – Does that mean My dirty TDI wagon must meet Cali emissions < I am in NJ but your story said NJ follows Calf rules.

    • 0 avatar
      Jimal

      I don’t think it matters. I’m in Connecticut, another state that supposedly follows the CARB emissions standards, yet when two different families I know moved to California, they still had to pay the ridiculous “out of state” vehicle fee, which IIRC was supposed to be a penalty of sorts for registering in a non-CARB compliant vehicle in the state.

      • 0 avatar
        CJinSD

        It’s a penalty for not paying them 9.25% sales tax when you bought your car.

      • 0 avatar
        corntrollio

        @Jimal – there is no out of state fee and no penalty for a non-CARB vehicle. You can use the CA DMV calculator to confirm this. If you have purchased a car recently out of state (less than a year/12K miles), then you may owe CA sales tax, but your prior state’s sales tax is creditable against it. This was to prevent people from buying cars in Nevada/Arizona and bringing them here for cheaper.

    • 0 avatar
      slavuta

      I was looking into GTI and God forbid say… sportwagon… oops. I said that. Ok, ok, I just saw both yesterday. But then, I didn’t know they assembled in Mexico next to Jetta. And, as you might know, I don’t buy cars made in Mexico. Even if this is Mazda3. Thankfully, portion of Mazda3 still comes from Japan.

  • avatar
    gtemnykh

    Well ordering the manual will help you Dodge (get it?) perhaps the most egregious feature of the Dart, the 9 speed automatic. However, I’m sure there will still be plenty of build quality “fun” to be had on any new Dart.

    The fact that Dodge’s compact entry gets worse fuel economy than most midsize sedans when running a similar sized engine is kind of troubling, and kind of sums of FCA’s problems with their non-Jeep/RAM portfolio. Looking at some listings for new cars, wow $15,5k for a manual GT?? Now I understand why the OP is even looking at these things. I may be a card carrying FCA skeptic, but boy that is a lot of features (namely heated seats, dual zone climate control, power driver’s seat with 4 way adjustable lumbar) and a solid riding/driving car for the money.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      you can’t get the 9-speed on the Dart.

      • 0 avatar
        gtemnykh

        Right you are, I think it was the DCT 6speed that was roundly panned by critics and had some re-programming associated with it.

        • 0 avatar
          JimZ

          has anyone been able to get a DCT right? The Ford DPS6 is a chattering, lurching mess. The DSG I drove in a Passat Sportwagen was a lurching mess (no chattering thanks to the wet clutches.) It’s like they all suck at low/off-idle speeds and anytime they have to downshift past multiple gear ratios.

          and don’t even get me started about that “robotised manual” in the ProMaster. Incredible piece of junk.

          • 0 avatar
            tankinbeans

            The DCT in my Escape was pretty tragic. It really liked high RPM (5000) shifting, but at reasonable speeds it was confused and liked to hunt.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            The Escape doesn’t have the DCT.

          • 0 avatar
            tankinbeans

            If DCT means the same thing to both of us, and I may be mistaken, the current generation does and it’s very annoying. I had a 2014 and put 17k miles on it. It had the 6 speed dual-clutch, probably the same that plagues the Focus since they share underbits.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            THE ESCAPE DOES NOT HAVE THE DUAL-CLUTCH TRANSAXLE.

            it has the 6-speed 6F35 automatic transmission.

          • 0 avatar
            tankinbeans

            Okay. Shouting isn’t necessary, I can read. The review on this very site indicates that it is a DCT as to multiple websites. I would be happy to concede that I am wrong if you point me to a reputable source. I see multiple fora with differing opinions.

            Either way, I don’t have the car anymore and it’s no longer of any real consequence.

    • 0 avatar
      30-mile fetch

      The Dart w/ Tigershark 2.4 seems very similar to the MkV VW Jetta w/5 cylinder. Heavy and solid feeling for the class, with a “big” displacement engine that prioritizes low end power yet ends up with mediocre all-out acceleration and fuel economy. But, VW phased out that underperforming powertrain about the time Dodge decided theirs was the best fit for the Dart.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        I drove a Dart with the 2.4 / 6-speed auto and it’s actually quite satisfying to drive. The reason FCA put the big engine in it is simple – the Dart is based on an old platform and is overweight, so you need lots of HP and torque, which the 2.4 has. But again, the drive is darn good, and so is the handling.

        Then you notice stuff like the cheapo interior materials, an engine that sounds like a lawnmower when the door is open, seats that look good but are sat on, not in, a hood prop that burns your hand when you use it after driving the car, and on and on…the basic car is quite nice but it fails HARD when you look at the details, just like every other small Dodge car has since the Omni.

        It’s a shame, because this is a likable little car.

        • 0 avatar
          30-mile fetch

          I haven’t so much as sat in one, but it sounds like a decent drive. Every review seems to have something kind to say about the chassis and handling. Between that and the sharp exterior looks (to me anyway), I’m actually disappointed that it is selling poorly.

          The oddball powertrains can’t help. We all know the problems with the 2.0 and 1.4. But the 2.4 for all its displacement can’t make the GT version clear the quarter any quicker than 83 mph, and that’s pretty much the performance pinnacle of the car. Thirsty for the typical buyer and slow for the enthusiast.

          The hefty weight doesn’t bug me in those MkV VWs, they are quiet and solid, and it sounds like the same is true for this Dart. So I personally would not consider that a huge demerit. Sometimes a big car feel in a small footprint is just the ticket.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      In my test drive of a Dart manual, I didn’t like the position of the shifter. For me, it felt like my elbow was beyond the seatbacks – very awkward to drive, I thought.

  • avatar
    30-mile fetch

    Mark, you have effectively increased Dart sales in PA by four or five units, which could make you their most productive salesman for that car.

    This is a curious switch of vehicles and a curious time at which to do it. Selling any car 2 years after buying it is going to hurt, and a H/K branded luxury vehicle double so.

    • 0 avatar
      PrincipalDan

      Selling any car 2 years after buying it is going to hurt, and a H/K branded luxury vehicle double so.

      Shhhhhhhh… Do you know how many members of the B&B live to buy the cars of people who have automotive ADHD?

      • 0 avatar
        mike9o

        Using Cars.com residual value calculator, Genesis 5.0 (52%) is above the Lacrosse (50%) and CTS (49%) but below the MB 300 and Jag XF (both 54%). If you wanted high residuals, should have gone for the Lexus 460, but that would have cost you another $45k. :P

    • 0 avatar
      tresmonos

      I was about to say this, but you beat me to the punch.

      This kind of oversight is insane. The fact that no one has discovered it is even more outrageous. Does that vehicle have that little demand? Do dealers actually care ‘this’ little about the Dart?

      If I were a dealer or salesman, I would have been going crazy trying to find an answer to why it was coded against their advertised certification.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        Dodge dealers couldn’t care less about this car. I looked at one last summer and the salesman tried to steer me right to a Ram pickup. I told him my price range and he walked towards the used lot, where they had…you guessed it – a bunch of used Ram pickups. I guess the whole “I just don’t want a truck” concept was over his head.

        (Actually, he probably had no earthy idea why I’d want him to sell me a car that he’d make less money on…)

        The Dart I drove had a build date of almost eight months earlier per the doorjamb tag, hadn’t been washed in weeks, and had that telltale “I haven’t been driven in forever” filmy stuff on the inside windows.

        No, I don’t think Dodge dealers are enthusiastic about selling this car…not when they have $50,000 pickups that’ll make them a lot more money.

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        I think the problem is partly because Dodge didn’t have a compact car worth buying for at least 8 years prior, and fell off of people’s radar. The Caliber was Daimler’s answer to a question they didn’t understand.

        and now that gas prices are low and consumers have shorter memories than mealworms, they’re back ignoring smaller cars again.

    • 0 avatar
      JohnTaurus_3.0_AX4N

      Perhaps he’s really unsatisfied with the car, maybe he has had a ton of issues with it and figures its time to end (that happens on H/K cars more often than people seem to think), maybe it is a symbol of an event or a person the OP would rather forget.

      My friend traded in her hated Chevy Sonic in under two years. She didnt care for it not long after she bought it, and couldnt wait to be out of it after just a few months. She stuck it out as long as she could handle it.

  • avatar
    redapple

    Make life easy.
    Get a 300.

    The best big 3 sedan made currently.

    Deadweight?

    • 0 avatar
      JohnTaurus_3.0_AX4N

      Sedan, period? Or full size sedan?

      The Fusion is the best American sedan currently, a new Malibu might turn it up a notch, too.

      If I wanted a smaller-than-Gennesis car with a manual, it be an Accord coupe or a Focus 5 door. Why doesnt the OP get a Focus ST? Much better than the Dart, and Im sure he can find a Ford dealer in PA who is more than willing to sell/order him one.

  • avatar
    tresmonos

    TTAC – helping Fiat-Chrysler with new model issues since 2014. First, getting the Cherokee fixed and now this. TTAC is probably Chrysler’s most valuable journalistic asset.

  • avatar
    Cactuar

    For the price of a manual Dart you could buy yourself a V12 Jaguar!

  • avatar
    Waftable Torque

    I never noticed the CARB regulations on “The Price is Right”. But I did notice Amber Lancaster. I think there was a game show too, but I was too busy staring at her to notice.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    “Pennsylvania is one of 13 states that have adopted California’s emissions standards.”

    As a PA resident, I didn’t know this.

    But we still don’t have access to the wider array of EVs available to other markets – Kia Soul EV, VW e-Golf, and Fiat 500e for starters, because as ‘compliance’ cars, their mfrs don’t want to provide consumers more than the minimum offerings.

    What I’d prefer to see PA adopt from CA, is their smaller legislature. Pennsylvania has the second-largest one in the US with 253 members, over twice the size of California’s. Here in PA, they still haven’t passed a budget since JULY.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      Attorney here. Pennsylvania’s laws (at least those relevant to my area of practice) are some of the most obscure and difficult to figure out in the country. Part of that is because of arcane legislative procedures.

    • 0 avatar
      ClutchCarGo

      IL is having the same budget issue. Our billionaire governor has been playing chicken with the career politicians who control the legislature, and getting his ass kicked. This is the absurdity of people thinking that a successful businessman will necessarily be a successful political leader.

      • 0 avatar
        krhodes1

        Much like our Teatard imbecile of a governor here in Maine. Who’s latest is that he isn’t even man enough to face the legislature to deliver a state of the state address in person. He just did it in writing and called it a day. What a wanker.

        • 0 avatar
          Lorenzo

          Believe it or not, that’s how PRESIDENTS delivered the State Of The Union messages. There’s nothing in the Constitution requiring an address, just a message. But that was before television and radio. Give the Governor of Maine credit for realizing he’s not telegenic enough, and may have a voice good enough for newspapers.

          • 0 avatar
            krhodes1

            He was telegenic enough to get elected in two pluralities. He is just too chickensh!t to face a legislature that is trying to impeach him. He knew what sort of reception he was going to get, so he stayed home to sulk.

            Mind you I am NOT a Democrat. I am a registered Independent who has voted Republican more often than not over the years. Paul LePage is an embarrassment to the office of governor.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      “But we still don’t have access to the wider array of EVs available to other markets – Kia Soul EV, VW e-Golf, and Fiat 500e for starters, because as ‘compliance’ cars, their mfrs don’t want to provide consumers more than the minimum offerings.”

      PA likely doesn’t have the same mandates that CA does for EV sales numbers. and PA sure doesn’t have the climate to make EVs attractive year round.

      “What I’d prefer to see PA adopt from CA, is their smaller legislature. Pennsylvania has the second-largest one in the US with 253 members, over twice the size of California’s. Here in PA, they still haven’t passed a budget since JULY.”

      You really don’t want California’s “proposition” system. any damned fool can get something on the ballot (and passed) which “sounds good” without a way to fund it.

      • 0 avatar

        It’s also market demand here in CT (also one of the 13 ) we get the EV’s a little after CA likely because we are left leaning and wealthy. I have been looking at a soul EV seems like one of the best deals out there right now for an EV.

      • 0 avatar
        mcs

        >> PA sure doesn’t have the climate to make EVs attractive year round.

        That’s not true. Just how did you come up with that kind of conclusion? I took a 14 mile trip in my Leaf this morning and was at 80mph or above for 10 of those miles (2 miles at 60) and managed 2.8 miles per kWh at 23F degrees. That’s good for about 84 miles range in 30 kWh battery Leaf and about 67 miles with a 24kWh car. It was almost a 30 mile round trip, so there was no problem with the range.

        For some extreme commutes and extreme cold, it might be an issue, but you can’t make a blanket statement that Pennsylvania doesn’t have the climate for an EV when there are New Englanders that are doing just fine with them.

    • 0 avatar
      Xeranar

      The main reason why they don’t want to shrink the legislature is both full-time pay (which is actually more democratic before you jackasses jump on it) and the Republicans need that massive legislature to keep the rural vote relevant. A severely cut down legislature puts far more power into the hands of population centers simply because they can’t run up the numbers.

      It’s complex but frankly every state should have adopted CARB decades ago. This is idiotic that some states accept more pollution than others. My love of Horsepower doesn’t override my desire for better air.

      • 0 avatar
        SCE to AUX

        IIRC, the large PA legislature was expanded on purpose in the 1800s to minimize the effects of influence peddling on politicians.

        Agreed on CARB. It makes no sense that this nation tolerates multiple standards for things we share (like air).

        • 0 avatar
          Xeranar

          Exactly, SCE. They depowered the urban centers by empowering rural centers, a large rural power base is hard to buy off since you would need to get Joe Blow in Intercourse PA to be bought out. Course this had no effect on John Scott of Pennsylvania Railroad fame and what brought us the term ‘Scott-free’ to mean free of corruption though it’s been morphed into a general euphemism for getting away period.

          Shrinking legislatures actually isn’t a bad idea in some respects but only if they’re imbalanced and suffering from extreme granularism. PA’s borders on that, but it’s an interesting study because PA’s legislature was and is the model for the Federal system as well….Which is why it is slow and trundling in many ways.

  • avatar
    Vulpine

    So buy one in a neighboring state and just drive it home.

    • 0 avatar
      tankinbeans

      I’m going to guess sales tax would be an issue in that case. Back in 1999 a former friend of my mom’s moved up here after having bought a Cavalier in Indiana. The registration expired and she couldn’t renew it because she didn’t pay Minnesota sales tax. She moved within days of the purchase.

      • 0 avatar
        krhodes1

        The way sales tax works in most states is you get a credit for any tax paid to the state you bought the car in, and you pay the difference, if any to your state. But some states don’t care that you already paid – you get to pay again. Some states simply don’t collect tax if the car is sold to a non-resident. Some of the CA-emissions states won’t let you buy a non-conforming new car out of state, some will (Maine doesn’t care).

        One wrinkle is that usually sales tax is wrapped into the loan – generally can’t do that if you don’t pay the tax to the dealer.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      Sure, but then you’re left with a white elephant you can’t easily resell in your home state.

      • 0 avatar
        Vulpine

        Once it’s registered and ‘used’ for 2 or 3 years, I don’t see how they can stop you from selling it. Pennsylvania is one of those states where the license plate stays with the car, not the owner, so it’s permanently registered in that state until it is sold or the current owner moves and registers it in another state.

        • 0 avatar
          SP

          From Pennsylvania’s DMV FAQ:

          “I’m selling my car. Does the new owner keep the tags?”

          “No. Remove the tags yourself and transfer them to another vehicle, or surrender them to the state. To transfer them to another vehicle, complete all the paperwork with the state, documenting the transfer.”

          So, the license plate does not necessarily stay with the car. Although the plate can be transferred if the new owner wants it.

          What usually happens is that you take the plates off at the auto tags place, they hang up the temporary tag in the window, and you take the tags home, forget to send them in, and eventually hang them up in the finished basement. PA doesn’t really care, they can just crank out another plate with that number if they feel like it.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      If this had actually been an emissions issue instead of a coding error, that would be illegal. You can’t bring a non-CARB new car into a CARB state.

  • avatar
    jdmcomp

    How many times have I been told “you cannot get a F100 with a 4 speed manual, a Volvo in Black south of the Mason Dixson line, a Camry without a sunroof” so now I not buy any of those makers vehicles.

  • avatar
    dwford

    There’s a nice 2013 Dart GT Mopar edition with the 1.4T and 6 speed for $13,995 on cars.com. I know it’s a rat, but it looks good and sounds really nice.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      Driveability on that drivetrain is terrible, at least in the city.

      Zero torque off the line, lots of clutch slip to get that heavy car moving, and then boost comes on just as you approach the next red light. It is maddening.

      • 0 avatar
        Vulpine

        “Driveability on that drivetrain is terrible, at least in the city.”

        You tempt me to see if I can find one at a local dealership and see if they’ll let me review one. I’m betting it’s nowhere near as bad as you claim it is, SCE2AUX.

  • avatar
    omer333

    I liked my Dart. “Liked” is the key word in that sentence.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      I missed the final outcome of your Dart travails. What happened?

      • 0 avatar
        omer333

        After several months Chrysler finally decided to give me a cash-payout that paid off the car and reimbursed me what I paid to the company my car was financed through. There was weeks of back and forth over getting paperwork signed. I’m STILL trying to get the money back on the rental car my wife had to get for several weeks during this whole fiasco.

        I look at Chrysler products, like Darts and Chargers and think “Nice car, but I’m not going through the headache of their lousy customer service again.”

  • avatar
    incautious

    Nothing new here. This goes all the way back to the 70’s. Try buying a new 1978 L82 corvette with 4 speed back in the day in certain areas like California or some parts of the northeast. It just wasn’t allowed. Of course you could buy a used one with say 100 miles on it with no problem. EPA nannies work in strange ways.


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