By on January 12, 2016

accord5

Twenty-three months ago, your humble author did what virtually nobody in this auto-journo game does — I went out and paid my own money for a thoroughly mass-market, middle-of-the-road vehicle. In just seven months, my 2014 Accord V6 Coupe 6MT and I made it to twelve thousand miles. Starting this spring, the pace at which I put miles on the big Honda slackened significantly as I diverted about 7,500 miles of commuting to my motorcycles.

Other than an oil change and imaginary tire rotation, the Accord didn’t require anything in 2015. Which bring us to January 2016, the 30,000-mile mark, a set of new shoes, and some long-term-style observations.


I bought snow tires for the first time in the winter of 2000 when I realized that my brand-new 330i Sport simply couldn’t be operated on even a visible dusting of snow. In the years that followed, I put snow tires on everything from a Golf to a Phaeton to an S5 to a Town Car. There have been two years where I didn’t run snow tires. The first was the winter of 2013/2014. My Town Car had ruined one of its Eagle Ultra Grips thanks to a bad alignment. My friend at the Goodyear store who was supposed to order the replacement had some personal issues and attempted to take his own life in December of 2013. I was still waiting for him to get his act together, go back to work, and order my tire when I caught a Sonata in the door that January.

The second year in which I didn’t run snow tires was last year, because we have a Tahoe Z51 (edit: it’s a Z71, of course, the Z51 is a Corvette) in the fleet now and I didn’t drive the Accord when conditions were bad. I cannot express how much I hate driving the Tahoe. It can be useful for picking up Christmas presents:

tahoe

For me, however, the definition of “Christmas” is “any day I don’t have to drive a truck”. The seats in the Tahoe also have the knack of poking me directly in various recently-fractured bones. Time to get snow tires for the Accord. I bypassed my old friend at the Goodyear store — he never actually got his life back together, losing his wife and children to divorce then sinking into chronic alcoholism — and ordered another winter package from the Rack. This time it’s Dunlop Wintersports on the no-name “Sport Edition” alloy wheels. They’re clearly Chinese garbage but they are light and the Rack was sold out of steelies. We’ll see how they do.

As I prepare to enter my third year with the Accord, I have the pleasant surprise of already being “in equity” on the car. KBB thinks I could sell it for about twenty grand, which is more than I owe. Needless to say, that was never the case with the various Phaetons and AMG Benzes and Land Rovers that littered my driveway throughout the first decade of the millennium.

Another pleasant surprise: nothing’s broken yet. Never in my life have I had a German or Swedish car that made it two whole years without an unscheduled trip to the dealer. The Accord shows no signs of requiring any extraordinary measures in the near future. It’s still on the original brake pads and rotors, although a few trips to racetracks have left them fairly wobbly. The in-dash service meter is calling for a third oil change. I’ll skip the tire rotation this time — it’s on the snows now, and they didn’t actually perform the service the last time anyway — which will make my total service cost for this car somewhere in the $200 range for 35,000 miles.

Come the spring, however, I’ll probably replace the three-season tires. The Michelin Primacy MXM4 that was supplied as standard equipment on 2014 Accords has a considerable fanbase in the Accord-enthusiast community — many owners of the previous-generation car replaced the OEM Michelin Pilots with Primacys, leading Honda to supply them as standard in a rather impressive example of listening to customer demand — but they don’t grip for shit. When the ground is wet that’s twice as true, the V-6 spinning the tires into oblivion during unexpected situations like “moderate throttle, second gear, 35 mph” and “up any meaningful hill.” They’ve also managed to nearly find their wear bars in 30,000 miles. Listen, I own a Porsche 993, the famous Kinematic Toe 4,000-Miler Eater Of Rear Tires, so I understand that rubber ain’t forever. I do, however, think it’s reasonable to get either high grip or reasonable wear from a modern tire.

The cast-aluminum OEM wheels also manage the trick of being both ugly and heavy, so, if I have the funds, I’ll swap in some OZ or Enkei wheels to take some of the lead out of all four corners. Also potentially on the agenda: the RV6 J-pipe. Why? Well …

… or sound mean, anyway.

As time goes on, I feel better and better about having chosen the two-door Accord over the four-door V-6 manual that didn’t exist anyway or the four-door Accord Sport that is a wonderful car and perfectly adequate for all needs. To begin with, the longer doors have been very helpful to me given that I’ve had some sort of fracture or ligament damage for about six of the twenty-three months I’ve owned the car. My son, who is six and a half and slightly above four-feet tall, clambers in and out without difficulty. I’ve had a few different full-sized adults in the back with said progeny for trips of up to four hours without diffculty. I don’t see any reason to buy the sedan unless you regularly travel four-up.

The V-6, as well, has proven to be thoroughly satisfying. It has more than enough power to operate independently of traffic and it surges up to about 110 mph with plenty of vigor (pun intended) which is all I’m going to do on public roads in my mid-40s unless I’m on my Interceptor or behind the wheel of my 993. Fuel economy in mixed use continues to hover in the 24-26 mpg range; on the freeway it can do a steady 30. It sounds good and, as is always the case, the joy of having more than enough power is worth the additional expense.

What don’t I like about the Marysville-built coupe? Well, the quality of the paint leaves a lot to be desired, but as a former Honda contractor I knew that going in for a variety of reasons, of which I am prohibited from discussing by a forged-steel non-disclosure agreement. The quality of the interior materials, as well, is only adequate. Some wear is apparent on the plastics and the leather. My Audi S5 was far superior in this respect; it also cost approximately twice as much as the Accord. The combination trunk/fuel door release feels cheap and worries me with its insubstantiality. That’s really about it.

To tell the truth, I’m so fond of my Honda that I’m considering replacing it. I know. Hear me out. I figure there’s no way that Honda will offer the V-6 in the 2018 car; it’ll be another one of these repugnant low-pressure turbo-fours in the engine bay by then. So if I want to extend my ownership of a V-6 coupe as far into the future as possible, it would be a sound idea to replace my current car with a 2016, thus resetting the mileage clock at the expense of submitting to the new Accord’s Wu-Tang-grille aesthetic. A more likely scenario is that I’ll wait until the very last V-6 stick-shift coupe is built and then buy that one, some time in late 2017, while keeping my current car as a kick-around commuter and first car for my son.

I’ll sum it up like so: The Accord EX-L V6 coupe does 95 percent of what a $60,000 German coupe does, at half the price, while probably lasting twice as long. It’s not a perfect car, but it’s good enough for the way I live now.

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175 Comments on “The Accord at Thirty (Thousand Miles)...”


  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    Glad to hear you are enjoying it.

    I’ve driven a fleet (pun intended) of Tahoes/Yukons/Suburbans and was never terribly impressed other than they felt solidly screwed together. Given GMs profit margins on each one, they dang well better be.

  • avatar
    CoreyDL

    Is that a big door ding on the right rear fender?

  • avatar
    VoGo

    I’m glad you’ve had good experience with your Accord. I think the key is that you had reasonable expectations going into the purchase about what you were getting.

    It’s funny how whenever people have positive equity in their cars, suddenly they find reasons to buy a new one. You want to buy a new car in a year so your son who is now 6 years old can have your current car in 10 years?

    • 0 avatar
      NormSV650

      KBB has my 2013 Verano 2.0T with 6-speed at sligjtly less value, but the asking price is similar. I bought used and am in positive equity also. Though if I would have caught a sale on a new one for $26K, would be $1,000’s in + equity.

      Have KBB put there money where there mouth is and see what you can get for it. Plus you have Honda-based Columbus backing you up?! I’m keeping mine!

      Edmund’s find out that Lexus GS F-sport won’t hold it value in California either. Premium segment takes quite hit.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      Excellent point VoGo.

      Norm with your advanced fuel generating technology, your Verano is probably worth billions, but for us regular folk the top trim Verano trades between 15 and 17 although there aren’t many floating around apparently. The lesser “leather” trades between 12 and 14 on average.

      MY13 Buick Verano “Premium” 4GT

      11/03/15 ORLANDO Lease $17,200 11,049 Avg WHITE 4GT O Yes
      01/04/16 DETROIT $15,700 13,449 Avg BLACK 4GT A Yes
      01/06/16 MILWAUKE Regular $16,800 15,224 Avg BLACK 4GT A Yes
      11/10/15 BALTWASH Regular $15,700 27,383 Avg PEARL 4GT A Yes
      10/02/15 PA Lease $15,000 39,179 Avg CREAM 4GT P Yes

      There is no GS F-sport listed in MMR so I can’t agree or disagree with Edmund’s although the normal GS350 trades between 35 and 40 in MY15 right now. MSRP starts at 48 and AWD going up 2 grand. Quotes are from RWD model and tip top price is extra clean under 10K miles.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        One of the downsides of lower oil prices is that the alien synthetic oil production team at Area 51 no longer requires Norm’s services, and his internet service has been restored. Shame, really.

      • 0 avatar
        Quentin

        Norm’s anecdote is based on a long term tester article that he read on Edmunds. Edmunds didn’t get what they thought they would get on a trade-in on a GS350 F sport*. I’m unsure why the depreciation of a GS is relevant to the discussion, though.

        *Edmunds also had a ridiculously decked out GS. It stickered for something like $60k. Historically, I’ve found that your best bet, if you are worried about depreciation on a mass produced car, is to get the cheapest of the “nice” trims. Maybe get the one with leather and alloys, but don’t get the platinum trimline with all the crazy tech that will seem ancient in 5 years. This worked out very well with my 2010 4Runner SR5 that I traded 2 years ago. I paid $32k for it ($4k off sticker) with no trade-in and traded it for $27,500 on a vehicle that I got for invoice. I owned it for 44 months and 38k miles. It was spec’d with leather, bluetooth radio, and 4WD. The Limited model probably would have taken a similar trade in value but would have been another $4k up front. Either way, I can’t believe that I paid only ~$100/month to own it.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          Well done and I think you’re right. Historically, trims add about 10% to the wholesale gross but paying for the actual packages is typically more than 10% thus you would lose any difference. You probably won’t get this 10% on trade because of the whole we f*** you on trade thing but its typically there when you bid.

          Personally in a new purchase I just wanted my heated seats and moonroof, I don’t even need leather anymore because its just simulated anyway at this point.

          Oh and the reason I brought up the GS is I was in MMR anyway getting a reality check for Norm and just included the GS valuation along with the Verano’s.

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      K
      I
      S
      S

      Life is complex enough. Simplify things. Eliminate headaches & stress.

      Buying a reliable, durable, affordable, efficient vehicle like an Accord is nirvana.

  • avatar
    Chris Tonn

    Did you revert to your Ford sales days and make this an SVT Mystichrome Accord?

  • avatar
    319583076

    Hanging onto this Accord Coupe for another 9 years seems awfully optimistic to me.

    • 0 avatar
      CJinSD

      My father’s immaculate 2004 TSX says otherwise.

      • 0 avatar
        VoGo

        I think 319 was referencing Jack’s attention span, not Honda’s reliability.

        • 0 avatar
          319583076

          Bingo!

          • 0 avatar
            CJinSD

            That’s fair then. I’m impressed that he still has it now. It’s funny how what he wrote mirrors the experience of most first-time BMW owners I knew back when BMW made interesting cars. The only difference is that their enthusiasm about keeping their cars forever and buying another one as soon as practical was usually expressed in the first month of ownership. By a year in, their plan of relegating their E39 528i to their vacation home for eternity and buying a new M5 for the city was not to be spoken of.

          • 0 avatar
            Jack Baruth

            I know how to keep a car — I’ve had my 911 for 15 years and my Boxster for 11. Admittedly those are the exceptions.

          • 0 avatar
            319583076

            I know you do, but I’m not sure the V6 Accord has the panache to earn keeper status in the Baruth garage. Plus, 2025 is the distant future in car years…

          • 0 avatar
            Fordson

            “I know how to keep a car — I’ve had my 911 for 15 years and my Boxster for 11.”

            At the rate you’re putting miles on your Accord, after 11 years it will have 172,000+ miles on it. Pretty sure your Boxster does not have 172,000 miles, nor does your 911 have 235,000.

            Apples to oranges.

          • 0 avatar
            spreadsheet monkey

            I’d like to hear more from Jack about his Boxster. Its been three years since the excellent “Hublot / disposable luxury” article referencing the awkwardness of checking the Boxster’s power steering fluid.

            (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/10/avoidable-contact-the-watery-big-bang-the-32-step-power-steering-fluid-check-disposable-faux-ury/)

            Jack, give us some more insight into the joys of 2004 Boxster ownership!

      • 0 avatar
        NormSV650

        Japanese cars don’t hold their value like they used too. that’s my similar 2013 Buick Verano cost the same and still hold similar value. Weigh in the discounted price that Buick offers its much better value loosing less in the first 3 years.

      • 0 avatar
        ex_machina

        Same boat here. I’m beginning to worry that I’ve taken too good of care of my 2006 6MT TSX to give it to my daughter in 3 years. Although not without its fair share of nicks thanks to the crappy paint; the car is otherwise in great condition. I am going to cry the first time she gets a door ding since I’m the only person insane enough to still park on the back 40 of every public parking lot.

        • 0 avatar
          sgeffe

          Well, as far as the paint is concerned, I learned that lesson the hard way over my Honda ownership, and with this car, I added paint-protection film prior to delivery.

          Plus I do park in the back of the lot! Last time my car was at the dealer, the sales manager stated that a car like mine, in the condition it’s in could almost be put straight out on the lot with no prep — top-off fluids and fill the gas tank and it’s ready!

  • avatar
    87 Morgan

    Glad to hear/read that you are still satisfied with your coupe.

    I followed your lead March of last year, only i bought a used 07′ 4 mil 5 sp. about 77k on the clock. 18k later it’s still motoring along just fine. Even with the 4 under the hood if provides some entertainment.
    I believe it has been posted here that it can be more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. I would not call the 4 slow though, but can’t stretch to fast.

    For the cheap skates of the world, keep up the good work. I need to be able to find the obligatory half priced used version of the car I want new.

  • avatar
    NormSV650

    Wait…HMC replaces the holed floor mats under warranty?

  • avatar
    jmo

    I never knew you bought the S5 and the Phaeton new. I always assumed you bought them used.

    • 0 avatar
      Jack Baruth

      Not only did I get BOTH of my Phaetons new, the S5 was a custom color from the factory, ordered by me six months ahead of time.

      Typically I don’t buy used cars — my Town Car was a rare exception as I bought it when it was about ten months old.

  • avatar
    ajla

    “… the joy of having more than enough power is worth the additional expense.”

    This guy gets it.

  • avatar
    Brian E

    Let me spare you – or at least forewarn you of – the pain of learning about Honda’s new touchscreen audio system on the ’16+. It’s Android 4.2. It’s Android on a Renesas SH-4 processor, which I was surprised to see in the wild at all at this point. It responds to your various touchscreen inputs about as well as you can expect, given that, but it otherwise seems to be fairly buggy. I’ll often end up with it playing Bluetooth audio despite the upper screen claiming that audio power is off.

    You’ll lose nav if you have it now; the EX-L only offers that in the Sensing trim and that implies the automatic. On the plus side you can just use your phone with CarPlay or Android Auto, so this isn’t a big deal. The new built in nav is actually Garmin though, and it’s surprisingly decent and gets five years of updates straight from them.

    On the plus side, they tweaked the steering and now it’s a little better – not quite Mazda good but pretty passable as far as EPS goes. Needless to say I’m still mourning for my old TSX in that regard.

    I’m a wimp and got the automatic, so I went for the Touring model. Either the 19s aren’t as bad for ride quality as I expected or the fancy amplitude-reactive shocks on the Touring are magic. I’m still getting used to not flinching when I cross over train tracks or hit a pothole.

    My suggestion: find a way to bring a Canadian 6-6 Touring coupe here next year. Or bribe somebody to offer that combination here. Either way works.

    Oh, and I read somewhere that Honda just announced a new 10-speed DCT for V6 applications. Maybe it’s not as dead as you think?

    • 0 avatar
      sgeffe

      There was an article in one of the industry publications just before Christmas where they interviewed a Honda bigwig, who seemed to imply that the 10-speed, V6 combo could be Acura-only, and smaller turbo engines would proliferate across the lineup.

      I do hope you’re right, however!

  • avatar
    philadlj

    In other news, my ’09 Civic hit 77,777 miles this week.

    I am SO winning Powerball.

  • avatar
    Driver8

    Laughs. I have that same chinese crap (in a slightly different style) on the wife’s snows. To their credit, they were listed as lighter than the others in the decision tree. Ride/road noise in minus-one fitment are also better than the OE rubber bands.

    That Slap Shot line was oft quoted by a former drinking and carousing buddy of mine.

  • avatar
    Flipper35

    Sounds like your tires are almost as bad as our Eagle LS. Actually, yours might be worse, the Eagles do grip well in the warm and dry weather. Below 50* they suck. In the wet they suck. If someone says it will snow, they suck. If it is cold I could take the off ramp considerably faster in our old Cavalier because these tires slide so easy, driving the ASC nuts.

  • avatar
    Kyree S. Williams

    “A more likely scenario is that I’ll wait until the very last V-6 stick-shift coupe is built and then buy that one, some time in late 2017, while keeping my current car as a kick-around commuter and first car for my son.”

    This from the man who saw fit to lease two Volkswagen Phaetons at once, and who, IIRC, had access to an A8 company car at the time. Why would I be shocked that you’d keep two V6 + MT Accord coupes?

  • avatar
    klossfam

    Jack – Haven’t the tire mfrs (or Tire Rack guys/gals) told you to NEVER call them ‘SNOW’ tires? They are ‘WINTER’ tires suitable for use at temps under 45 F. I will admit that winter tires of today are pretty amazing. A FWD vehicle with good winters is a far better and safer rig than an AWD vehicle on all seasons in most snow and ice conditions.

    Excellent review of the Accord. I’ve had the same experience with all but one of the 5 Honda/Acura products I’ve owned over the last 15 years. Only a wayward 2002 Acura TL-S dented the invincibility. Honda V6s are simply the best…Whether the older multiport injected or the new DI Earth Dreams…

  • avatar
    CJinSD

    After seven German cars in a row, it is a revelation how Hondas don’t break. Now my family has three. The twelve year old one has an intermittent power lock solenoid issue on the passenger door that started when it was about seven years old. A wire to the trunk lid also got pinched at some point last year and was repaired. That’s it to report in Honda-related issues with cars that are now twelve, nine, and four years old. I had two 2012 Audi company cars for 39 months and four months respectively. They each had more issues in their first months than all the Hondas have had in a combined 25 years of ownership.

  • avatar
    Felix Hoenikker

    I have 13k miles on my 14 Accord 4 cyl/CVT now. Fuel economy oh the highway is astounding. I did 41 mpg at 70 mph on my return trip from Pittsburgh to Allentown in mid December. This may be a little high since I filled up in Somerset which is a higher elevation than home.
    So far the only service has been one oil change at the dealer for free. Given that the CVT holds up, I expect this car to meet my 100/100 reliability rule. That is no more than $100 worth of unscheduled repairs in 100k miles. I don’t think any German car would ever meet that spec. However, my 2004 Saturn Ion did so it’s not that tough of a requirement. Our 99 Honda Oddy did not because of you know what.
    As for tires, I bought the LX model because I hate the dental filling shaking, bone jarring low profile tires on the upper trims. I ended up with 17 inch 205 x 65 Contis all seasons that have more than met my expectations. The stock alloy wheels are on the ugly side, but so are most of them now.
    I have no plans to get winter or snow tires. Since I switched to FWD with all seasons in 1980 for my daily drivers, I have never been stuck in the snow, and I live in snow country.
    I agree with your assessment on the paint and quality of the fabrics and floor mats.

    • 0 avatar
      krhodes1

      It’s not about the going in the snow, it is about the stopping in the snow, the turning in the snow, and the NOT turning when you don’t want to in the snow. See Jack’s little accident in the Town Car for an excellent example. $500 in winter tires would likely have prevented $100K+ in medical bills for Jack and his lady friend. You may think you are as excellent a driver as Rain Man, but sometimes it is nice to stack the deck in your favor, especially when the cost is so minimal. Every mile run on the snows is one less mile on the summers.

  • avatar
    Master Baiter

    Jack seems eager to pass the mantle of broken bones on to his projeny. What’s the over-under on the kid modeling a cast with his new “Christmas Present?”

    I say six months.
    .
    .

    • 0 avatar
      VoGo

      I don’t think this is the right forum to criticize another man’s parenting choices.

      • 0 avatar
        Kyree S. Williams

        Agreed.

        • 0 avatar
          mikey

          I also agree , maybe Jack want the lad to learn some safety practices. Some mechanical skills, and just expose the lad to something other than a X box.

          • 0 avatar
            05lgt

            Real science on the issue shows that exposing kids to situations where they evaluate risks on their own is a really good thing. Not just not our business, but he’s doing well so … umm… STFU.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            One time my grandma burned my sister’s face when she caught it with the edge of a pan that had fresh rolls on it.

            Her response? “She’ll know better next time!”

            We laugh about that to this day.

      • 0 avatar
        Jack Baruth

        It’s okay — this is the same website where one of our valued readers commented, regarding an article I wrote about speeding on public roads, “I hope you kill your son in a crash.”

        I’ve broken about ninety bones. I’m still here. I live in a world where young men (or, sadly, old men) get hurt doing difficult/dangerous/stupid/hilarious things and nobody clutches their pearls too hard.

        Under no circumstances am I going to cover my son in bubble wrap for 21 years then loudly wonder why he “won’t leave the nest” when he’s thirty.

        • 0 avatar
          bball40dtw

          Kids gonna get hurt. Might as well get hurt doing something fun. I’ve hurt myself more doing dumb $hit around the house than from the federal government pushing me out of planes into war zones.

        • 0 avatar
          VoGo

          Jack,
          I am saddened that someone wrote something so terrible to you in a public forum. I think you know that it doesn’t reflect 99.9% of the folks on here.

          I may not agree completely with your parenting choices, but unless I see actual abuse (which this obviously is not) I am not going to criticize.

          And if I did see real abuse, I’d actually protect the child, and not make snarky comments.

        • 0 avatar
          CJinSD

          http://kotaku.com/one-of-the-worlds-best-speedrunners-cant-speedrun-anymo-1752274907

          The people that write kotaku and the people that they write about have parents too. There are worse things than motorcycles.

        • 0 avatar
          Carlson Fan

          He’ll grow up looking back at that little Yamaha as one of the best things ever about his childhood. I’ve got 3 boys and my 11 year old wants a dirt bike so I may pick up an older KX80 I found on CL. I used to get threatened w/divorce when I mentioned dirt bikes but that isn’t an issue anymore!……….LOL

        • 0 avatar
          sgeffe

          Preach it brother!

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        The poster in question has a long history of thoughtful, classy contributions.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I do get the point as kids hurt themselves being kids sometimes but I don’t think the implication is welcome or warranted, especially after the man suffered a severe accident.

    • 0 avatar
      RideHeight

      “projeny”

      That’s not even a drug name. Yet.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        I claim it. Yo yo yo I be PrOjEnY check aut my new album 28 ways to die.

      • 0 avatar
        Drzhivago138

        Projeni, the all-purpose pill! It cures depression, herpes, rickets, and lupus! It slices ham so thin, even the in-laws won’t come back!

        (Warning:sideeffectsmayincludeanalfissures.)

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        ProJenny can be reached at 867-5309.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          My fav reference:

          “In 2006, Benjamin Franklin Franchising, a large national plumbing franchise, began using a toll-free version of the number (+1-866-867-5309), which it advertises as “867-5309/Benny”.[20] In 2007, Gem Plumbing & Heating brought suit against Clockwork Home Services, the parent company of Benjamin Franklin Franchising, alleging a violation of its trademark.[21] Clockwork contended that Gem’s trademark was invalid. Effective in May 2007, Clockwork was ordered by a court to stop using the number in New England.[22] As of 2011 +1-866-867-5309 remains in the hands of Benjamin Franklin Franchising as a valid method of reaching BFF customer support.[23] According to Tommy Heath, lead singer of Tommy Tutone, “It’s ridiculous. If I wanted to get into it, I could probably take the number away from both of them.””

          but then

          “In 2009, nutrition firm Natrient LLC leased +1-800-867-5309 from 5309 Partners Ltd for $25 million as part of a radio ad campaign.”

          So Tommy should probably look into “taking it”.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/867-5309/Jenny

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            Unless Tommy was using the number to market plumbing products, he doesn’t have a case.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Fair use?

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            Fair use is related to copyright. Copyright is a different issue, and I would presume that Tommy or entities related to Tommy hold copyrights for the music, lyrics and recorded performances.

            The concept of trademark is primarily oriented around avoiding customer confusion/deception. Tommy isn’t in the plumbing or similar business and he doesn’t hold a trademark on the song for those purposes, so he can’t claim that this other plumbing company is taking away his customers or otherwise misleading them to believe that the plumbing that they thought was being performed by Tommy is actually being done by a rival.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Thanks.

    • 0 avatar
      Dave M.

      And here I am at 58 thinking “Best Dad ever!”. Rest assured Jack knows the safety gear accessories they’ll need. Does he ever.

      When I FINALLY got my scared-y-cat kid to ride her bike without training wheels, we were cruising the neighborhood when she suddenly turned into me. My choices were to fall on top of her or flip on my side and have the whole mess head my way unpredictably. I went with plan B, and as my bike came down on top of me while I was bracing her fall the main sprocket ripped open 4 grooves going down my shin.

      So many lessons that day. But most importantly – wear a helmet, and always get back on the bike.

    • 0 avatar
      Charliej

      I started my son riding when he was five years old. He has been riding ever since then. He is now forty five and has never had a broken bone from any cause. I really don’t understand why people who have no idea about riding are so afraid of it. I stopped riding after fifty two years when I moved to Mexico. I had exactly two road accidents in those years. Once I fell from getting a flat front tire. Once I hit a car that ran a stop sign too close to miss. In neither case was I more than slightly injured. Too many people who don’t have a clue are convinced that riding is a death sentence. The truth is that there are a lot of old farts who have ridden all their lives with no problems and no injuries. You can die anywhere at any time if the circumstances are right. Remember that there are those of us who prefer to actually live our lives instead of cowering in fear at what might happen. If that is how you want to live, more power to you, but please leave the rest of us alone about how we wish to live.

  • avatar
    Timothy Cain

    Almost nobody. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/09/honda-odyssey-sales-falling-got-odyssey-now-odyssey-sales-rising/

  • avatar
    Zackman

    Jack, I’m curious: Did you actually WANT to own & drive a Honda, or were you compelled to buy one?

    I suppose it’s me, but even though we own a 2002 CR-V which is still going strong and has needed a few repairs, I don’t want to actually DRIVE one – the CR-V is Wifey’s, and she loves it.

    Now, I realize my 2012 W-body Impala LTZ is no enthusiast’s dream, but I actually WANTED to own one, and I don’t regret it, even though it’s hopelessly outdated compared to what was and is available now. At 3½ years in and 82,000 miles, it’s been a good car for what I needed – a rock-solid, comfortable highway runner for my long commute. As long as it lasts the next 14 months, it’ll be good. Then I retire.

    • 0 avatar
      Jack Baruth

      I don’t think I was “compelled” to buy one. Nobody told me to buy one and in any event the last person to compel me to do anything was probably either my father or a guard at the local jail/workhouse, both incidents being a few decades in the past.

      There were some reasons for me to buy the car. In the aftermath of the January 2014 crash I wanted the safest car I could get. However, the cost had to be reasonable because I was about to get tangled up in a lawsuit with my employer of the time. That was resolved to my satisfaction but it wasn’t until three months after I bought the Accord.

      If the Lexus RC-F had been available at the time, I’d have bought that. But it wasn’t.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        “If the Lexus RC-F had been available at the time, I’d have bought that.”

        So why not buy it now instead of an updated Accord?

        Although I’d choose the GS-F instead. Minimal weight penalty despite the extra set of doors (because the RC is a Frankencar) and a much nicer interior.

  • avatar
    vvk

    Michelin Primacy MXM4 are my favorite three season tires ever. I also have friends who run them on everything from a Golf TDi to BMW 545i. I cannot wait to install them on my 550i. The poor traction you are describing is perhaps more due to combination of front wheel drive, a torquey V-6 and a manual gearbox. I honestly do not see much traction difference between them and SuperSports in spirited rear wheel drive style street driving. And they stay very smooth and quiet until the end.

    • 0 avatar
      Stumpaster

      Man oh man, you should write for Tire Rack reviews. You probably already did. Torquey Honda V6? That’s funny!

      • 0 avatar
        gtemnykh

        Laugh all you want, but the J series V6 is a beast.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        Have you ever driven a J35-equipped car? The engine basically has a flat torque curve from idle to 6000 rpm. More than enough to create traction-related bedlam at any legal speed in a FWD car.

        • 0 avatar
          sgeffe

          That’s why I love this latest version in the Accord! The TORQUE!!!

          If I floor it just right at, say, 30mph, I could likely break the front tires free on wet pavement and play Tokyo Drifter; run a 13-second quarter at maybe 100mph (just a guess); yet still pull down mid-30s mpg while flying down a freeway at the ACC-imposed Vmax of 90mph with 2 people on-board and the A/C spitting ice cubes!!

    • 0 avatar
      Sam Hell Jr

      Agreed. This winter has been so mild in Ohio that I’m waiting til next year to get winter tires for the tC. The MXMs I put on last spring have done great. V6 Hondas are just kind of unlovable in real winter driving; my dad’s on his second TL and it’s as true of those cars as it was of my ’98 Accord coupe.

      • 0 avatar
        CoreyDL

        Ain’t mild in Ohio today! It’s downright nasty and I had to shovel for the first time (which given it’s nearly mid-Jan, not bad).

        At least we’re back into the 50’s by weekend time.

        • 0 avatar
          Sam Hell Jr

          My definition of “mild” got shifted by the last two winters in Toledo.

          Anyway. Wish I’d been on the winter tire band wagon back in my own Accord days. Even my old Saturn was less inclined to about-face on an ice patch.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            Ahh, the Lake Effect places. I don’t desire to live any further north than I already do.

          • 0 avatar
            sgeffe

            You got that one right!!!

            Today’s 2.5 inches should have been nothing, and yet all the schools were closed, likely because of the wind-chills, in addition to the blowing and drifting. (Of course, my argument then becomes “quit coddling these kids,” but I digress.)

            @Cory, aren’t you in the Cincinnati area? Legend has it that if you folks see two flakes falling together, the entire region shuts down on account of the lack of snow-removal equipment in your neck of the woods.

          • 0 avatar
            CoreyDL

            That’s correct, Cincinnati. It doesn’t shut down because of lack of clearing equipment, it shuts down because people have no idea how to drive and are bad drivers here.

            Here’s a list of things which make Cincinnati drivers panic and slow down or stop entirely:
            Snow
            Rain
            The sun
            Fog
            Drizzle
            Wind
            Loud noises
            Cold

            The only time people drive decently here is when it’s mostly warm and cloudy. But they’ll still enter an interstate doing 52 at the end of the on ramp, because why would they need to hurry?

  • avatar
    kvndoom

    My withdrawal reached its breaking point late last year. Bark’s article about parting with his Boss, and what his son said… that was the final straw. Ugh if I had kept the 2011 it would be paid off by now and it was my favorite car EVER.

    I’ve already told my beloved that I’m getting another Accord coupe this summer. The two oldest stepchildren already know that come April they have to start paying rent, because at 22 and 23, soon to be 23 and 24, it’s well past grown-up time. They’l be paying for my car; I’ll be driving it. :D

    I am waiting only for word from Honda on what colors will be available on the coupe with a 6MT for 2017. If I can’t get white, then I’ll put my order in for a blue 2016.

    Jack I will probably shoot you an email later this spring to see what kind of pricing your dealer can get me. If they can undercut Mechanicsville Honda enough to warrant me paying for a plane ticket and a hotel, I might be buying you dinner sometime this summer. We’ll see!

  • avatar
    Ubermensch

    Those wheels are hideous on the Accord. You also forgot to remove the blue protective film from the center caps.

  • avatar
    andyinatl

    I have owned 52 vehicles from 1996 til now. Many brands, mostly European. I’m currently running 2nd year on my 2012 Civic EX-L and have no intention of getting rid of it. First car i owned this long. The only issue with Hondas is garbage paint, but thankfully i got hit by a deer so the whole driver side/front end got repainted. Amazing that aftermarket paint job is better than factory paint. Other than that, it’s an amazing vehicle that has exceeded all my expectations and i actually like driving.

    • 0 avatar
      bullnuke

      Honda paint is an area where they really “cheap out”. They were sourcing from some JDM lowest bidder years ago and were probably the last (excepting for Yugo) to use electrocoat primers. In the mid-’90s they used the paint system from the OEM paint manufacturer I worked for We painted high-end GM, Nissan, Ford, Mercedes, VW, and a once-a-year batch for Rolls-Royce and our plant was located really close to Marysville, right over in Greenville, Ohio. They only used a couple of colors IIRC. Looked great and it was commented that the paint looked much better than their previous coatings. They dropped us after a few months because of “appearance issues” which translates into cost per gallon being higher.

  • avatar
    gasser

    Our family has had many Accords in the last 30+ years. I literally can count on one hand the repairs needed, and most of them were kept over 10 years. When an Accord breaks down, its a topic of amazement at the lunchroom table. When my friends bought BMWs (3, 5 series), repairs were a montly chore, even in the first few years.
    Pick your poison: boring or frustrating.

    • 0 avatar
      Nick_515

      Frustrating up to your forties, then switch to boring-ish.

      What do I win?

    • 0 avatar
      Nicholas Weaver

      Which is why we should all lament the passing of the S2000. It ain’t boring, but at the same time, in 140k miles, the only repairs to mine have been new shocks front and rear and new brake rotors.

    • 0 avatar
      krhodes1

      Funny, my 2011 328! has needed three things in going on five years. An electric seat relay, which has been the only unscheduled visit for a repair, when it was three months old. A headlight washer started leaking and was replaced during an annual service. Finally, I rubbed a hole in the driver’s side door seal getting my fat @ss in and out of it wearing Norwegian sweaters all winter. Also replaced at an annual service. And unlike Hondas in my area, it won’t be rusty at age 10. I suppose the upside-down i on the badge is an issue too, but I am not getting that fixed!

      Not a thing so far on the M235i at seven months – they even got the i on right-side-up. The early turbo BMWs were utter and complete horror shows, but they seem to have their act together 10 years on. The number of issues with these cars as seen on the forums is minimal.

  • avatar
    frozenman

    Why can’t Honda come to grips with their rotor problems? After two sets were replaced under warranty on my 09 Accord I finally put on aftermarket premium rotors/pads on the front (very easy for DIY) and all is well (keep the back calipers well greased!).

    The paint issue though is terrible, so many rock chips the resale value is for crap unless I repaint first. Oh and the bolster on the drivers leather is wearing thru (cause fat!), super comfy seats for long haul driving though. The car is at 110,000 miles.

  • avatar
    drzombie

    Jack, since you have owned this car for a decent period of time now, I would appreciate your thoughts on the following. I currently own a 2010 Mustang GT, but now that I have three kids, the wife and I want to get a fun car that has three seats in the back. For various reasons (including that I refuse to buy automatic), I’ve narrowed it down to either a V6 Accord coupe, or a Challenger R/T. Practicality is only a concern to the extent that all three kids have to fit in the back, as our other car is a minivan. Thoughts and suggestions from anyone else appreciated. Also, sorry for the threadjack (pun intended).

  • avatar
    Sam Hell Jr

    Jack, is that a camera-quality issue, or did you make good on your threat to pop in the Canadian-market LEDs?

    Also, please help me parse your comments about mass-market engines. Low-pressure turbo fours (the Hyundai 2.0T?) are “repugnant”. The Toyota NA 2.5/6AT is “quick-witted” and “probably better” than the EarthDreams/CVT. But the VW 1.8T was “enjoyable to push hard”. But the Hyundai 2.4 was “lumpenprole”.

    I’m not trying to be a snot, just to square the circle. Is this just a context-specific thing? Are higher-pressure turbos less objectionable? Does the stick change the equation in all cases? Is the 6 cyl so much better that everything else is kind of irrelevant?

    • 0 avatar
      Jack Baruth

      When the choice is a four-cylinder of modest power or a turbo four-cylinder, I’ll take the latter.

      When the choice is a six or a turbo four, I’ll take the former.

      I enjoy the Toyota 2.5/6AT powertrain more than the Accord I4/CVT one.

      No to the LEDs, at least so far, due to financial constraints.

      • 0 avatar
        sgeffe

        There is (or was) a Honda tech. at Rick Case Honda in the Cleveland area who sold kits to retrofit Touring headlights to other Sedans. Why he didn’t do the same thing for the Coupes, using the Canadian parts (which were standard on the V6s, at least, up there), only God knows!

  • avatar
    PeterKK

    A good writer’s ability to turn a thing I have little interest in to a thing of physical need is awesome. I really need to start writing. :)

  • avatar
    oleksandros

    The Accord is shortlisted for my next car, this account of Accord ownership does absolutely nothing to change that.

  • avatar
    Nick 2012

    I’ve got 42k on my ’14 Accord Sport 6MT 4-door. Every time you post an update, I regret not getting the V6, but my youngest son just stopped sitting in a rear facing seat. Loading an unhappy toddler into a rear facing seat is hard enough in a 4-door and practically impossible in a coupe.

    Maybe now is the time to upgrade. You said you had a guy in Marysville?

  • avatar
    sportyaccordy

    Re: Tires

    I am really loving my Continental DWS06s on my Civic. Even in bouncy 205/55-16 size they have great grip and sidewall strength for the street.

    Re: Paint

    Clearcoat on the hood, roof and trunk of my 09 Civic is going going gone. I’m hoping I’m still eligible for that recall.

    Re: Next ride

    I am kind of in the same boat. Civic 1.8 5MT is fun as hell to beat on and fast enough to break the law. W/a motorcycle and speeding tickets over my last 3 years of car ownership (following a long no car period in NYC) I find myself acknowledging that I have more than enough. Landscape for a sub 3000lb 4/5 door is a bit bleak when factoring in my desire to not have something with an “Idrive” style or poorly designed infotainment system. Fiesta ST is out. Really only the GTI is in the running, and speed/luxury aside I think the Civic will be more fun to drive with the extensive suspension work I’m hoping to do. So I would keep the Accord. Take the money you would have blown on depreciation and transaction fees and get a TL Type S limited slip swapped in, along with some good summer tires. Done and done.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      Seconded on the DWS06 tires, on a totally different car (a LS460). They bring 85% of the benefits of summer performance tires for the street driver, while lasting much longer and being totally usable in cold and rain (there’s been no snow since I put them on). They and the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 are the class of the all-season performance field.

      • 0 avatar
        gasser

        I’m not happy with the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3. I’ve had a set for about 18 months and 8K miles. I’ve replaced 3 passenger side front tires do to side wall damage from potholes (one blow out on a city street), all at moderate speeds. Tire wear poor, I doubt they’ll make it to 25K. Previous Bridgestone Potenza RE950AS went 25K and still had some tread when I replaced them. Zero problems with sidewall damage. Sounds like the DWS06 may fit the bill. Anyone chunked a sidewall yet on these new Continentals??

      • 0 avatar
        nickoo

        I had continent DW summer tires on my tibird before it was hit. Best tires ever.

  • avatar
    suspekt

    Jack,
    Kudos on considering the RV6 J Pipe.
    Richie at RV6 will do a package on the K Tuner as well.

    That J motor is a gem awaiting a little “uncorking”.

  • avatar
    Kendahl

    We have a 2008 Infiniti G37S coupe, which was my retirement present to myself, and a 2013 Ford Focus SE with the 5 speed manual, which is mostly my wife’s car. Yes, the $42k Infiniti is better than the $17k Focus. But the difference isn’t that great. As usual, cost increases exponentially with perceived quality.

  • avatar

    I read every post you put on the Honda since I leased a 2014 Sport CVT in dark gray exactly 2 years ago, to be honest, I’m not exactly in love with that car, there is really nothing wrong with it but you learn a lot when you actually use a car every single day.
    This car is cheap! I mean, everywhere you look you see cost cutting, there is no light in the glove compartment, the back seat folds 100%, not the usual 60/40, the audio system is so bad it will make you hate music!, the steering wheel makes clicking noise (known problem that can’t be fixed), the wipers start making mechanical clicks (wipers!!! the oldest tech of any car, never changed in years), also, can’t be solved, the final drive make some noise in low speeds (also in the M/T version according to Car and Driver long term test of the Sport model.
    I understand it’s not a luxury car but I can’t understand why it become an icon in the US, everywhere I look I see so many of them (NYC).
    I can’t wait for the lease to be over!

    • 0 avatar
      kvndoom

      The Accord sport is fools gold. I’m not being insulting, but people who buy it don’t realize that’s basically an LX with big purty wheels. The EX is a much better value quotient.

      Because it’s an LX in wolf’s clothing, it has the same shtty base radio. EX trims and up have better speakers and (most importantly for me) an external amplifier that can be replaced in the chain for something better.

      I’ve mentioned a few times how baffled I am that the Sport isn’t an upgraded EX trim, but Honda has enough folks fooled I guess.

      • 0 avatar

        The only reason I choose the Sport was the leather steering wheel and the gearshift paddles, it was offered as a cheap model by the dealer, and those 18″ wheels are a curse when it come to steering radius, resembles a truck. And, I did listen to the audio on the EX, those 2 extra speakers do nothing to improve the sound, it’s only the EX-L that have an amplifier and a sub.

    • 0 avatar
      30-mile fetch

      It’s an interesting post, ddr, because Car and Driver rhapsodized about their Sport: “Why can’t all sedans be this pleasant to live with?” without really describing what that actually meant versus the competition. The same article lamented the frequent need for brake rotor turning, waved off the poor stereo, never mentioned the single-piece folding seatback that makes it impossible to carry long items and a backseat passenger, and then admitted “we often overlooked it as commonplace, leaving its keys to languish on our sign-out board”. And then awarded it 10 Best because, well, it’s a multi-decade tradition that Honda likes to use in its advertisements.

      The press hyped the Sport trim so well that it seemed like the perfect midsizer until I realized, as Kvndoom just wrote, that it is an appearance package much like the S trim of a Corolla.

      • 0 avatar
        Jack Baruth

        Had I bought a four-cylinder sedan, it would have been an EX manual. You get the sunroof and a six-speaker stereo for basically Sport money.

      • 0 avatar

        Yes, Car and Driver are obsessed with the Accord for years, they put it against the 2014 Mazda 6 and it was so hard for them to admit the Mazda was a better car, I had 2 Mazda’s that I really liked and I did test drive the 6 before I took the Accord, it was all well with the Mazda until I realize I would need ear plugs or very loud music to overcome the noise, too much.

        • 0 avatar
          Nick 2012

          Re the 6MT Sport/EX comparison, the dual exhaust offered only on the Sport 4cyl has not yet been mentioned. Like the J35Y2 engine in Jack’s car, the K24W3 Sport 4-banger mill is probably under-rated. The Sports also come with an easy to clean neoprene like seat covering instead of mouse fur.

          C&D’s Don Sherman dynoed a 6MT Accord Sport and it put down more than 180 HP at the wheels vs a rated 189HP. With typical driveline losses being 10-15%, dual-exhaust 6MT Sport probably makes north of 200HP.

          As a Sport owner, I’m just trying to justify choosing the 6MT Sport over the 6MT EX.

          The non-amped stereos in the LX, Sport and EX are complete garbage. I put in some decent Infinity speakers and it made a world of difference. Sound quality went from non-existent to only a few standard deviations below the mean, and that’s fine by me.

  • avatar
    Chicken Daddy

    My 2013 EX-L V6 6MT has just turned 35,000 kms. Hardly broken in, but more enjoyable every day. I agree with Jack’s comments. The paint is too thin and the leather seats and carpet are of poor quality and durability. Of course, I didn’t buy it for the seat covers or carpeting. The engine and transmission are terrific. All this is an affordable car. Good show Honda.

  • avatar
    White Shadow

    Never had a German or Swedish car that didn’t require a trip to the dealer within two years? Really? Swedish, not a big surprise….but German too? My current Audi is now five years old and has never been back to the dealer after the day I took it home. My old M3 was just shy of 4 years old and had also never been back to the dealer, not even for the “free” oil changes. I think you may have been a bit unlucky with your German sleds….

  • avatar

    Fine looking young man Mr. Baruth! His bike I presume?

  • avatar
    jthorner

    In 2003 I moved from a 1996 Volvo 850 to a 2003 V-6 Accord. That Accord is still going strong 13 years and 175,000 miles later. Expensive repairs are much less frequent for the Accord. That Volvo needed an $800 ABS controller at 80k miles. The Accord didn’t need one until 175k miles. The Accord’s interior looks better at 175k miles than the Volvo did at half that length.

  • avatar
    ponchoman49

    Just closing in on 49K miles on the 2013 Impala 3.6 having acquired a new set of Goodyear Viva2 all season tires which work perfectly fine in Upstate, NY Winters where we can see 2-3′ of snow in one dumping at a time. Never had to install snows on any of my FWD Impalas or any of my GM sedans thus far. Other than the new tires and a new set of wiper blades the Impala has been flawless and makes a terrific year round car for a very reasonable amount of coin. I have the extra cost red tin coat paint and it is holding up beautifully and still shines like new despite not one wax job to date this past 3 years. The brakes are still original all around but the fronts are starting to get wobbly when heated up so inspection this Summer it will be.

    The 3.6/6 speed combo makes this car a blast to drive when you put the hammer down and 31-32 highway MPG is pretty easy to obtain going around 72-74 MPH. My only complaint with the 3.6 is that it sounds a bit gruff when cold until it reaches temperature but I understand this same power train combo is quieter and more refined in the new Epsilon Impala. Other than that no issues to report. No rattles, no wear and it still drives like a brand new car. There will for sure be a new Impala in my driveway when the 2013 is due for trade in.

  • avatar
    Jeff S

    My wife had a Honda Accord hatchback with a 5 speed manual for 17 years–a great car. After the Accord she had a Escort wagon and a Taurus which were also good cars. About 3 years ago she bought a loaded CRV and it so far has been flawless.

    pouchoman49–My wife and I rented a 2014 Impala LTZ with leather interior, sunroof, and everything when we went to Napa Valley last Summer. That Impala was a really nice car and one of the few rental cars that I actually hated to return. It was a beautiful metallic red with a black leather interior.


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