By on September 29, 2012

So, you really want a Range Rover but your trust fund hasn’t recovered from the “bankocalypse?” What’s a guy to do? Well, you could take advantage of the British brand’s cliff-face depreciation curve and buy an off-lease Rover, but do you really want to test your reliability-fate with used wares from Old Blighty? The answer comes from the only other brand that has “off-road” coded into its near-luxury DNA: Jeep. Gasp! A Chrysler product you say? While Chrysler would not say the phrase “American Range Rover,” they did throw us the keys to the top-of-the-line Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland Summit 4×4 so see what a refresh and stitched leather goodness could do for our soul.

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The Grand Cherokee started life in 1993 as a mid-sized SUV attempting to slot between the full-size Grand Wagoneer and the smaller Cherokee. Since that time, like many cars in America, the Jeep has been getting bigger. Unlike many cars, the Grand Cherokee has been something of a social climber receiving newer trim levels with luxury features hitherto unseen in a Chrysler product. Now in its fourth generation the Grand Cherokee has grown by a foot in length, six inches in width and gained nearly a ton in curb weight. Despise the “Americansizing,” the Grand Cherokee’s exterior is well proportioned and elegant thanks to a redesign in 2011 that replaced the cartoonish front with a more attractive and elegant design. Further upping the luxury ante, Jeep bedazzled the Overland edition with chrome, even slathering the tow hooks in bling.

Interior

I have come to the decision that adding stitched leather to anything is a recipe for success. If you don’t believe me, hop in a Laredo trim Grand Cherokee then step inside an Overland. Even though Jeep improved the plastics in the 2011 refresh, the plebeian models receive a rubbery dashboard that collects dust and is difficult to clean. Meanwhile the Overland gets one of the best stitched dashboards I have had the pleasure to fondle see. Seriously, the quality of the stitch-work is second to none in the luxury industry and the contrasting piping on the seats screams Range Rover. This is a good thing. The Range Rover parallel continues with an interior color palate that runs from black-on-black to a series of contrasting leather combinations culminating in the striking “new saddle”  leather interior our model wore. Jeep has tossed plenty of real wood in for good measure and topped everything off with tasteful matte and shiny chrome trim. As you would expect from the “budget” Range Rover, all the creature comforts you could ask for are available including: radar cruise control with pre-collision warning to a heated steering wheel, cooled seats, automatic high beams and keyless go.

A common complaint with the first two generations of the Grand Cherokee was rear seat legroom. While the Grand Cherokee will never be mistaken for a limousine, rear leg room has improved and is no longer a problem point for most passengers. This increase in leg room came with a general increase in the Grand Cherokee’s dimensions. While this increase makes the SUV a bit less capable off-road in some ways, it pays dividends in passenger  comfort, cargo room, and, my personal favorite: lumber capacity. If you own a WJ series Grand Cherokee you’ve probably noticed that it’s hard to get 8-foot long items in the vehicle, this is not a problem with the WK’s increased dimensions. While the Jeep still can’t swallow a 4×8 sheet of plywood, four-foot wide items will fit in the cargo area easily. As before, the rear tailgate features a glass section that opens independently allowing longer items to hang out the rear, this is a feature that is notably absent in the competition.

Infotainment

The positive impression of the Overland’s interior is tarnished once you get settled and reach for the infotainment system. Because Chrysler’s finances were in the toilet when the Grand Cherokee was refreshed in 2011, the infotainment systems from the previous generation remain with essentially no change. All but the base model of the Grand Cherokee get the same 6.5-inch touch-screen interface with the more expensive trims getting more software options in the system. At the top of the food chain, Overland models get “everything” which includes: Bluetooth, iDevice/USB integration, Sirius Satellite Radio and a backup cam. While the feature set is competitive, the system’s graphics are old school, the software operation is far from intuitive, voice commands are few and far between, call quality is mediocre and the system is sluggish. Expect this to change for 2014 as we’re told Jeep is jamming the snazzy new 8.4-inch uConnect system into the dash. If you’re a gadget hound, wait for the upgrade. On the bright side, the Jeep’s English competition has an infotainment system that is just as lackluster, just as ancient and just as infuriating.

Drivetrain

As a nod to those interested in fuel economy, premium interior trappings no longer come bundled with a larger engine. As with all Grand Cherokee models, the Overland starts with the 3.6L V6 which produces 290HP at 6,400RPM and a respectable 260lb-ft of torque at 4,800RPM. Jumping up to the 5.7L V8 gets you 360HP at 5,150RPM and 390lb-ft at 4,250RPM. Attending the V8 party takes a toll on your fuel economy, dropping from 16/23 to 13/20 (City/Highway.) Compared to the Range Rover Sport’s 5.0L naturally aspirated engine, the Jeep delivers 15lb-ft more torque at the expense of 15HP and 2MPGs on the highway (13/18 MPG.)

The rumor mill tells us to expect both engines to get Chrysler’s  ZF-designed Chrysler-built 8-speed automatic for the 2014 model year. Until then, the V6 is paired with a Mercedes 5-speed while the V8 gets Chrysler’s in-house designed 65RFE 6-speed transmission. Our Overland also had the optional Quadra-Trac II AWD system which uses a 2-speed transfer case to split power 50:50 during normal driving situations and provides a 2.72:1 low range for off road use. Four-wheel-drive Overlands also get Jeep’s variable height air-suspension dubbed “Quadra-Lift.” Jeep claims the system is one of the fastest acting in the industry and compared to the Range Rover and Range Rover Sport I’m inclined to agree. Going from the low ride height of 6.6 inches to the 10.7 inch “rock climbing” height takes around 30 seconds while lowering the Jeep takes a similar amount of time.

Drive

Out on the road the Jeep’s hard-core roots are obvious. In a sea of sharp-handling FWD crossovers, the Grand Cherokee sticks out as a marshmallowy soft traditional SUV with standard RWD, a longitudinal mount engine, and a stout 7,200lb towing capacity. This means that despite wide 265-width rubber, the Grand Cherokee will only carve corners in the off-road-incapable SRT8 variety. Still, that’s not this Jeep’s mission. Much like a Range Rover, the Overland’s raison d’être is to drive like a Barcalounger regardless of the road surface. Mission accomplished.

With 360HP and nearly 400lb-ft of twist on hand, you would think the Overland 4X4 V8 would be fast. You would be wrong, our Overland took 7.3 seconds to hit 60 putting it firmly in the “average” category. The first impediment to forward progress is the mass of the Overland which rings in at 5,264lbs (V8 4X4) without a driver. The second is the Chrysler 65RFE transmission under the hood. Compared to GM, Ford and ZF’s 6-speed units, the shifts are slow and soft, first gear isn’t as low as the Mercedes 5-speed the V6 uses and the ratios are somewhat oddly spaced for normal driving. While I expect the new 8-speed unit to deliver better acceleration for the V8 with its low 4.69:1 first gear, don’t expect 2014 to improve HEMI fiel economy by much as the 65RFE’s 6th gear is already a tall .67:1, the same as the Chrysler/ZF 8-speed’s final gear. While we were unable to 0-60 test a V6 Overland, the V6 doesn’t feel that much slower than the V8 and it saves 351lbs of curb weight. The transmission’s ratios and shifting are likely the reason the Range Rover Sport (which manages to be even heavier) is 4/10ths faster to 60 despite the similar power numbers from the engines.

The high curb weight of the Overland causes a few problems off-road for the big-boy Jeep limiting the amount of fun you can have at the off road park. If you see that Grand Cherokee Laredo in front of you barely making it through the mud, just turn around, he’s 632lbs lighter than you. If you see a Patriot playing in the soft-stuff, it’s 2,000lbs lighter. Still, this isn’t likely to be a huge problem for you as I have yet to see a new Grand Cherokee let alone an Overland at my local SVRA. That being said, like the Range Rover, the Grand Cherokee provides all the off-road hardware you’d need to tackle the Rubicon. On our short course at Hollister Hills the Jeep proved that it still has a serious off-road setup that never flinched regardless of which wheel we had up in the air. There is a great deal of debate about whether Jeep’s move to a four-wheel independent suspension in the Grand Cherokee was the right move or not and I must throw my $0.02 in the ring. It doesn’t matter but Jeep made the right business decision. I appreciate both sides of the argument but since most Grand Cherokee buyers think of their gravel driveway as “off-road,” Jeep’s focus on asphalt manners is the way to go.

Branding is important to many shoppers, but just how important is that Range Rover brand to you? If the answer isn’t $16,195, then the $51,500 (as tested) Overland Summit is your “frugal” alternative. Not only does the Overland deliver an honest-to-goodness similar experience for considerably less, it is a viable option for those that simply prefer buying an American brand, or those living in Middle America where you can’t find a Range Rover dealer. Like the Range Rover, the Grand Cherokee Overland is all kinds of crazy, it’s big, brash and heavy but coddles the driver in a leather cocoon. Like the Range Rover, nobody “needs” an Overland, yet I secretly want one.

 

Jeep provided the vehicle, insurance and one tank of gas for this review.

Specifications as tested

0-30: 2.9 Seconds

60: 7.22 Seconds

1/4 Mile: 15.64 Seconds at 87 MPH

Average Fuel Economy: 15.2 MPG over 819 miles

 

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104 Comments on “Review: 2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland Summit...”


  • avatar
    Wheeljack

    The last year for the fullsize Grand Wagoneer was actually 1991, so the Grand Cherokee was more of a replacement of sorts, rather than a vehicle to “slot between” the smaller Cherokee and the Grand. The even tried to use the warm fuzzy feelings people had for the Grand by creating a woodgrain-encrusted version of the ZJ called a Grand Wagoneer for 1993 only.

  • avatar
    jems86

    I was really hoping to see the elk test (and the truth about it)

  • avatar
    golden2husky

    Or, you could say it appeals to someone who wants a vehicle that will not be a shop queen like a Range Rover.

    • 0 avatar
      Quentin

      I wouldn’t go so far to say the JGC isn’t a shop queen. On TrueDelta, it is on the wrong side of the scale. The Land Rover LR4 (no RR on TD) occupies the same space in the scale as the JGC.

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        Only speaking from personal experience here, but our 2012 Overland Summit has been without any problems or warranty issues in over 24130 miles.

        Last week I changed the oil and oil filter, and the cabin filter, and rotated the tires (early) for the 5th time, in my drive way. It was a breeze. Easy to do. Plenty of clearance. No problems.

        I checked everything out under the hood and under the vehicle and aside from a lot of dirt found nothing wrong. If there is one irritant it is the AGM battery under the passenger seat and NO Ammeter.

        Every time I want to check charging rate and battery saturation level I have to break out the Fluke and hook it up to the two posts under the hood.

        That’s kind of a pain, but it does tell me that the AGM has lost roughly 5% of its retention value over an 11-month period. When CCA drops to around 50% of rated capacity it will be a bear to R&R that battery since it requires removal of the front passenger seat. And that AGM battery costs well over $250, locally. A suitable Lead-Acid H-series would work but because of its location under the passenger seat, and vent requirement, I would not advise using one.

        Ours was built in Oct 2011 and bought by us in Nov 2011, and by then maybe Fiatsler had worked out the kinks that affected the first 2011 WK1s.

      • 0 avatar
        sfay3

        24,000 miles with no problems really isn’t much to brag about.

      • 0 avatar
        tuffjuff

        It is when others are suggesting he should’ve spent his time in a shop.

      • 0 avatar
        sfay3

        No it’s not.

  • avatar
    carguy

    The Jeep Grand Cherokee is only an 8-speed transmission and some quality improvements way from being an outstanding luxury SUV bargain. The addition of the Euro diesel option would seal the deal for me.

    • 0 avatar
      V8Roving

      I’m probably horribly biased, but I’d go for one if its a diesel for sure, if not at 51k its an LR4 for me.
      the lower levels are a much better deal to me as far as the GC goes, once you start getting up into the mid 40s its Land Rover for me. Then again I do drive an 04 discovery II now

      • 0 avatar
        tuffjuff

        Taking into consideration, a brand new LR will cost you a lot more than mid 40’s.

        The only problem I have with the JGC is that to get one in the price range I’m shopping for ($37k tops) I can’t get one that looks anything like the one in this review. The beautiful leather and other interior options are in the Overland package with is a good ten grand more than I’ve got to play with.

  • avatar
    Spartan

    This thing needs the 3.0L CRD immediately.

  • avatar
    AJ

    I agree that four-wheel independent suspension is right for the WK2. Who is really going to take a $50k vehicle and drive it hard off-road like some of us do with Wranglers? Thankfully Jeep has left the solid axles alone on the Wrangler (even though there are plenty of loaded Rubicons roaming the malls of America).

    Plus, my wife and I have talked about getting one, if I can get past that their UAW built. Secondly, Pentastar or Hemi?

    Thanks for the review…

  • avatar
    86SN2001

    GM and Ford should take note, this is how you build a PROPER SUV. Not some seven passenger monstrosity that has no off road ability and no towing capability.

    And props to Jeep for using actual words (gasp!) to select the kind of terrain rather than hieroglyphics like the Explorer. And I bet that, unlike the Explorer, the knob in the Jeep does more than move the little orange light from one hieroglyphic to another.

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    Nice vehicle, I didn’t realize it was so huge and heavy now though.

  • avatar

    Excellent video Alex.

    One of my friends traded his JeepSRT8 for the new JeepSRT8. I don’t feel comfortable “carving corners” in it at anything above 60 – even though it could probably handle more stress.
    Once the Jeeps get the Uconnect Touch 8.4n, they’ll be perfect in my eyes.

  • avatar
    jz78817

    yeah, I rented a Laredo shortly after the ’11s came out and even the low-trim one was head-and-shoulders above the ’05-’10 WK. More impressive considering the WK2 was pretty much done prior to Fiat coming in.

    I am *not* feeling that interior color scheme, though. Something about the lighter color on the top of the IP grates on me.

  • avatar
    Bela Barenyi

    I hope that Jeep decides to build a “Eddie Bauer” Edition (perhaps a “Eddie Bauer Chapter 11″ Edition). I mean, it’s just some badges here and there.
    And Jeep should also launch other “special Edition” with other “outdoor clothing brands”. A “Jack Wolfskin” Edition of the Grand Cherokee would sell really well in Germany, as lots of people wear Jack Wolfskin jackets in Germany.

  • avatar

    Either transmission is the worst part of this vehicle. The “six speed” isn’t really a six speed. It normally operates as a five speed, and squeezes in a useless sixth only when manually shifting. This is done solely so they can claim to have a six speed like others.

    So on TrueDelta I’ve continued to display it as a five speed :)

    The new transmission cannot arrive soon enough. I’ve been waiting for it before reviewing one of these again.

    • 0 avatar
      Dan

      It isn’t really a five speed either, in that the 5th speed is an additional overdrive just 10% away from 4th. That extra OD was mechanically available from day one but Chrysler didn’t bother to enable it in software (because 200 rpm on the highway is a distinction without difference) for the first couple of model years.

      The 45RFE > 545RFE > 645RFE evolution is purely an improvement of marketing.

      • 0 avatar

        I can see how 200 rpm would help fuel economy, but would then question the point of 4th. I wish someone could explain how ratios are selected to me. In most transmissions the first few gears are far apart, then the last few are close, even very close, together.

      • 0 avatar
        kjb911

        As a former owner of a 2002 WJ, the phrase 545RFE still sends shivers down my spine. It was truly a piece of Daimlercrap©

      • 0 avatar
        DeadWeight

        I’ve noticed the disturbing, conspicuous price-creep (even relative to the competition) setting in at Fiatsler, and it’s evident here again in what is a pretty hefty priced SUV, even considering the options.

        I’m seeing very aggressive lease deals being offered up by GM, Volkswagen, Honda, Mazda & Hyundai (there are some insanely low lease deals– no games — on Chevys and VWs right now), but not by Chrysler.

        Chrysler needs to check themselves, lest their recent success in market share is going to fade. The best cure for high prices by a volume maker (where “Limited” denotes how many they can build, not how many they’re willing to restrict for release) is high prices.

      • 0 avatar
        krhodes1

        @deadweight

        You are assuming they care about market share. Perhaps they actually have a vehicle which sells for near full price without discounts? Market share at all costs is a road to ruin unless you have insanely deep pockets – which VW certainly does, and GM has a hand in the taxpayers…

        I can’t believe how HEAVY these things have gotten. I have an ’02 JGC as my winter beater/tow beast, and it is under 4K lbs while still being surprisingly quiet and refined for a truck. And that is with the boat anchor cast iron inline six and gigantic live axles under it. Are they lining these things with lead??

  • avatar
    Carlson Fan

    “GM and Ford should take note, this is how you build a PROPER SUV. Not some seven passenger monstrosity that has no off road ability and no towing capability.”

    Are kidding me? The GMT-900 SUV’s are some of the best towing vehicles on the road. I know because I own one and ours handles 4 tons of boat and everything else I hook to the back of it like nobodys business. Get a clue.

  • avatar
    CJinSD

    What was cartoonish about the 2011 front end? I suppose they may have changed something for 2012, but it seems like a pretty subtle distinction to me. Do these really work off road when properly optioned? It seems to me that it is based on the current Mercedes ML platform, which is one of the least off road worthy CUVs ever built.

    • 0 avatar
      Wheeljack

      I think he was referring to the 2010 and prior vehicle with the silly rounded headlamps and corresponding shapes in the hood. It’s hard to believe this design has been available for 3 model years now since it still looks as fresh as it did when it was launched in late 2010.

    • 0 avatar
      SC5door

      The ML is based on the Jeep Platform. It’s just the media is too afraid to report this fact.

      • 0 avatar
        Alex L. Dykes

        Nobody is afraid to report it, it just doesn’t matter that much. According to Chrysler, fewer than 1% of parts are shared between the Jeep and Mercedes. While the wheelbase is the same and some floor stampings share design, the ML is tuned to be a soft roader with 5.2 inches of ground clearance and the GC’s lowest clearance is 8.2. The tracks, steering racks, transmissions, braking systems, etc are all unique.

      • 0 avatar
        SC5door

        Well what matters it the black eye that the Jeep engineers get every time this SUV is mentioned as “based on the ML”.

        A platform is defined by a set of dimensions, you do not need to share powertrains, skin, or any other parts to share platforms.

  • avatar
    highdesertcat

    We own the 2012 version of the Overland Summit 4X4 V6 with the same interior trim and color. It has been a great vehicle. No problems. No warranty issues.

    I agree with Alex’s assessment but ours only gets around 12mpg in all-around driving, mostly up and down US54 and US70. That’s probably because of my wife’s lead foot and sustained cruising speeds of over 85mph.

  • avatar
    Quentin

    Jeep hit the ball out of the park as far as styling on these. They look great inside and out. That said, when I was mid-size SUV shopping, I wanted lots of space behind the 2nd row and maximum durability as I planned on getting at least a decade out of the vehicle.

    The Jeep seems like it would hold 4 adults in great comfort, but the cargo area is a little on the small side, IMO. The eventual winner, a ’10 4Runner, bests the JGC by 12.1 cu.ft with the 2nd row up and 21.0 cu.ft with the 2nd row seats down despite both vehicles being within 0.5″ as far as length. The Jeep wins out on rear seat leg room, but I’ve had 6′ tall people in the back in complete comfort, so the extra legroom at the expense of cargo room wasn’t good for my situation. Unless the driver is particularly tall and carrying tall passengers, I prefer cargo to passenger space when we hit vehicles this size.

    The other thing against the JGC was expected durability. The JGC hasn’t done so well reliability wise while the 4Runner remains solid on most metrics. 2.5 years, 33k miles, 0 defects, 22.1 hand calculated mpg later, I think I made the right choice in my premium package SR5 4WD.

    • 0 avatar
      PenguinBoy

      “The JGC hasn’t done so well reliability wise…”

      What sort of problems are cropping up in these? I’ve had a fair amount of seat time in a number of JGCs now, and they always struck me as a high quality vehicle. The powertrains seem pretty stout. In the past, Mopar products had cheap shoddy body hardware that would break in unusual ways, but that no longer seems to be the case. In all fairness, most of my experience has been with Pentastar equipped Larado models, sometimes with leather or a sunroof, but never an Overland Summit. Perhaps the higher spec models have more gadgets to break?

      I certainly understand your choice of a 4Runner over a JGC two years ago – at the time, I probably would have done the same thing. Although the JGC *looks* nice, I’m not sure I would have trusted it enough to buy one with my own money when they first came out – especially considering the abysmal quality of the cost reduced late Daimler era Mopars. But now that the JGC has been out for a couple of years, I haven’t heard anything to suggest they are unreliable.

      • 0 avatar
        Quentin

        Mostly what I read on JGC forums, but I pulled up some issues on truedelta that seemed to repeat.

        – Radio cuts in and out evenafter a new radio was installed.
        – Repaired leak in AC line
        – Water pump was making noise, pump replaced under warranty Leak in condenser, replaced condenser and recharged system under warranty.
        – Intermittent problems with stalling and failure to start, key fobs replaced.
        – Jeep has been in and out of dealer approx. 6 times for overheating transmission.
        – Full engine replacement
        – Car wouldn’t start using the remote keys. Batteries were not dead, but the key fob’s were not recognized. Sevice came to disconnect the battery and then reconnect. Took it to dealer and they reflashed programming.
        – Loose connection on Quadra Trac system so received an error message (which also disabled the 4WD system)
        – no key found message when attempting to start vehicle. Update WIN module with new software.
        – Replaced window motor and tailgate lock button
        – SKIM module failure, vehicle would not recognize keys or start, even with manual key. Key fob locked with manual key inserted and had to be forcibly removed. Vehicle towed to dealer for repair.
        – air suspension warning light came on. control module replaced — took 10 days. paint on front bumper peeling and flaking off. repainted. power lift gate failed. so far, two trips and still not working. control module replaced. motor needs to be replaced but part not available. dealer said many failures. air suspension warning lights came on. techs verified codes but could not duplicate. 430n UConnect system does not work with Apple iPhone. 730n system firmware update released earlier in month. no one knows when the 430n firmware update will be ready. (eventually lemon lawed)

        I stopped moving down the page after a while. Seems like Chrysler wanted to give you the full Range Rover experience with electrical issues. Yikes.

      • 0 avatar
        PenguinBoy

        That’s quite a list – I wonder how many of these are one off issues, or only affect early production models?

        When there is a real design weakness, such as the head gaskets in my Subaru or certain Honda transmission, you see mention of the same problem over and over. I don’t see that here.

        IIRC Consumer Reports gave this truck a “Recommended” rating, which means at least medium good reliability, along with at least medium good results in their evaluation of the vehicle’s design and capability. I might be mistaken on the “Recommended” rating (no time to check now), and some may question CR’s methods – but it is another data point.

      • 0 avatar
        CJinSD

        The variety of problem areas points to Chrysler still being a low quality manufacturer that employs alcoholics and junkies. Love those long lunches at the UAW hall!

      • 0 avatar
        Slab

        I rented one earlier this year and had multiple problems with the keyless entry. Once, I was on the freeway, the alert sounded, and the dash said “key not found”. It was eighteen inches away in my pocket. Several times I had to use the key to unlock the door. Other times, it would let me in the door but then not start. Very frustrating.

      • 0 avatar
        probert

        “The variety of problem areas points to Chrysler still being a low quality manufacturer that employs alcoholics and junkies. Love those long lunches at the UAW hall!”

        Very witty old chap – I say release the hounds and be done with them. haw haw.

      • 0 avatar
        golden2husky

        That long list suggests one off problems rather than a design defect or continual assembly problems, but one can always skew data to fit a predetermined outcome. In fact, if you used a list like that as a metric to judge quality of vehicles, a trip to the Bimmerfest website would have your head spinning. Even makes that are allegedly testaments of reliability have forums loaded with issues. When you make millions of something, there are going to be some with problems. A better way to use these forums is to look for the repeat pattern failures – items that you statistically might be affected by should you make a purchase. I’d say you are more likely to win the lottery than end up with a JGC than needs an engine replacement.

      • 0 avatar
        Quentin

        Those were pulled from TrueDelta, Michael Karesh’s site. The reason I don’t own a BMW (other than the MINI, which was owned by my wife before we got married and she LOVES the car) is due to the reliability. The issues listed on TrueDelta for the 4Runner pretty well mimics the complaints on the 4Runner forum I belong to. (transmission software reflash on early builds, hazing on headlights being the most common)

        I don’t expect the engine to blow up, but that sort of entry doesn’t exactly inspire confidence. Chrysler did just recall a bunch of Pentastars for issues that required head replacement. Either way, via Consumer Reports, the 4Runner is listed as “much better than average” for reliability and the JGC is listed as “average”. Given the relatively minor changes to the 5th gen 4Runner under the skin versus the 4th gen, which was also very reliable per CR, the 5th gen 4Runner is a pretty safe bet. The last gen JGC was a reliability nightmare according to CR.

    • 0 avatar

      The early 2011’s could be troublesome, especially those with the air suspension. The 2012s seem good so far.

      Also realize that there are hundreds of members on forums and dozens on TrueDelta–so problems might not be as common as they seem from counting posts/reports.

    • 0 avatar
      tuffjuff

      Discussing reliability for a nearly brand new vehicle is silly, no matter how you look at it. Also, the JGC has your 4Runner beat on interior quality. The 4Runners I’ve seen (all in the mid to high 30’s) on a local Toyota dealership lot all look almost… cartoonish.

      • 0 avatar
        Quentin

        As I said before, the JGC is beautiful inside and out. The material qualities are very good in the JGC. As far as the 4Runner, I love the look of the 5th gen and don’t find them cartoonish. As “the dude” says, “that just like.. your opinion, man.”

        For my needs (max reliability and utility), the 4Runner is a far superior vehicle. Great engine, reliable AT, body on frame construction, solid rear axle. I’m certain I’ll get 10 troublefree years out of it as my camping, biking, utility, and offroad vehicle.

    • 0 avatar
      azmtbkr81

      I’m not the biggest Toyota fan but I do give them credit for continuing to offer off-road capable vehicles when most other manufacturers have given up or greatly reduced their offerings.

      I also respect Toyota for being one of the few companies in the US to offer a vehicle (Tacoma) with both a 4 cylinder engine and a transfer case. I can’t figure out why this combination isn’t more popular.

  • avatar
    PenguinBoy

    I got the same “American Range Rover” impression of the Overland Summit at the local car show.

    I’m not really sure that this vehicle has any direct competitors. The Range Rover is much more expensive, and has a more exclusive brand, so I doubt anyone would cross shop it with a Jeep. The somewhat related Mercedes ML is in the same category as the Range Rover, I don’t see may ML customers considering a Jeep either. Among non premium brands, the 4Rrunner Limited is probably the closest competitor, it’s the only non premium mid sized SUV that still has a longitutinal engine and can be optioned to go off road. But the 4Runner looks and feels like it’s a lower grade vehicle compared to the Jeep, with cheap plastic trim and a general tinny feel.

    As mentioned earlier, I’ve had a number of these as rentals to travel to remote ares in Northern Alberta and North Eastern BC, and I’ve been impressed. The body structure seems really solid, and up there they are likely driven on a variety of paved and unpaved roads with some occasional off road use. Some of the rentals have around 50k km on them, and they still don’t seem to have any squeaks or rattles.

    I don’t really need an SUV for my personal vehicle, but if I did, the Jeep would be on my list. Off the top of my head, I can’t think of anything else that would be on my list…

  • avatar
    Prado

    Alex… I think you have a typo in the tire size…365’s ?? That’s wide.

  • avatar
    bkmurph

    You’d think Chrysler could have wired up an amber turn-signal bulb behind one of those blank (clear) lenses in the taillights. But no, they went the cheaper route and let the taillights pull triple duty as taillight, brake light, and turn signal.

  • avatar
    billfrombuckhead

    That new 4runner is probably the ugliest SUV ever made.Lucky they don’t sell very many to protect everyone’s eyes.

    Do they have same metal separation on the front ends that FJ Cruisers have? Then there’s the bad fuel injectors.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056100238
    http://www.aboutautomobile.com/Complaint/2007/Toyota/FJ+Cruiser/Body

    • 0 avatar
      TRDSmokedU

      You know Bill, it’s people like you who really vex me. I know you post under various names such as MAX on autoblog. We all know you hate Toyota. We also know you sell Chryslers. I have read many degrading and often racist post by you on autoblog. Listen, stop posting BS. The JGC is a fine automobile, to which I have an utmost respect for. But do not even try to compare the reliability of the Jeep to a 4Runner. The 4Runner is a very sharp vehicle who stayed true to its roots. I own one and while I love it there are areas that need improvement. Just look compare the stats from carcomplaints.com. The new Jeep in model year 2011 generated 40+ complaints on carcomplaints.com. This is only one site designed for auto complaints. Do you know what the majority of the complaints were for? Engine and electrical issues.

      http://www.carcomplaints.com/Jeep/Grand_Cherokee/2011/

      The 4Runner was redesigned in 2010 and received 1 complaint. In 2011 the 4Runner has 2 complaints listed. For 2012 there are zero complaints.

      http://www.carcomplaints.com/Toyota/4Runner/2010/

      The Jeep certainly excels in many areas but for reliability and resale value it’s doesn’t come close to a 4Runner. But by all means keep drinking koolaid. I do not have any problems with brand loyalty but you are beyond ignorant.

      http://www.kbb.com/new-cars/best-resale-value-awards/best-brand/

      Here are some of your delusion comments:

      https://www.google.com/#q=billfrombuckhead+autoblog&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=imvns&ei=OqZnULv6E4mC8AScxoGwDg&start=10&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=a5299187bc5d23b0&biw=1024&bih=538

      https://www.google.com/#q=billfrombuckhead+racist&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=imvns&ei=jqZnUJOtM4Pa8ATS_4DAAQ&start=0&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=a5299187bc5d23b0&biw=1024&bih=538

    • 0 avatar
      Quentin

      An issue that was corrected years ago (and generally related to aftermarket bumpers) and an Irish Land Cruiser thread about a diesel engine? Oh, come on Bill, you can do better than that. Your hatred of things not-domestic is far stronger than this weak effort implies.

      • 0 avatar
        CJinSD

        He probably can’t do better than that, which should give comfort to Toyota owners.

      • 0 avatar
        golden2husky

        FJ frame cracks and failures are not uncommon and are certainly a possible problem if you own one. This is not a settled issue if you own one made prior to the modifications. The cracks by the motor mounts and suspension mounting points are design defects and they can’t be explained away by moronically blaming the assembly workers. The big issue is will Toyota do the right thing – which they usually do – and fix the damage that occurs or will they pull a GM and make the customer eat it (for lunch, with beers of course)

      • 0 avatar
        Wheeljack

        The inner fender cracking issue on FJs has nothing to do with aftermarket bumpers – the bumpers are bolted to the frame, the inner fenders are part of the body structure that sits on top of the frame. Toyota wanted to blame the problem on modifications early on, but later came up with revised inner fenders and a procedure to retrofit vehicles with cracks.

        Amusingly enough, the procedure had to be revised when a dealership burned a customer’s FJ to the ground with the heat created by welding the new inner fenders on. The procedure was then revised to include removing the entire instrument panel before doing any welding. So now you have a vehicle with new inner fenders that may not perform as intended in a frontal crash due to shoddy dealer workmanship and the icing on top of the cake are interior rattles and noises thanks to the I/P having been removed and reinstalled. Oh what a feeling – Toyota!

        I get an extra hardy laugh out of all the mods people have to do to their FJs to make them perform half as well as my nearly stock ’06 Rubicon. The bonus is I can put the top down and enjoy a nice sunny day offroad without fear of sheetmetal cracking.

      • 0 avatar
        tuffjuff

        I still stand by the interior being ugly as sin. Looks okay (although not as good as a Highlander) on the outside, though.

    • 0 avatar
      SC5door

      I wouldn’t bet the farm on “Chrysler quality” yet.

      After being stranded by one Chrysler and almost stranded by a second they fell off the shopping list until things turn around. I was an avid fan….key word “was”. We were too afraid to walk back into the dealership and be stuck with a car that going to be an “after warranty” nightmare.

      Do everyone a favor Bill, and go back to Allpar where you guys can discuss how “great” the Mopars are. I’ve read the boards but got tired of “fan boi” attitude.

  • avatar
    Robert.Walter

    “Overland** Summit”? What’s with the goofy badge name inflation? Before long I half expect that they will figure out a way to add smth like “Trail Rated LeBaron Brougham” into the name!

    ** paying homage to Willys-Overland? Or just some useless badging-bric-a-brac?

    • 0 avatar
      Wheeljack

      Yes, the Overland package is an homage to the Willys-Overland name.

      • 0 avatar
        billfrombuckhead

        The Toyotaphiles and Toyota wage slaves are threatened by Chrysler because Mopar is building cars that people want and are proud of as well passing JapanINc in technology on many fronts. That’s why they’re trying to diss the Grand Cherokee. Nobody is comparing a 4runner to a Land Rover or getting very excited about most of Toyota’s appliances.

        BTW, the new 2013 Ram technologically crushes Toyota’s whole antique truck range with the Pentastar V6 getting better hwy mpg than a 4 cylinder automatic Tacoma. The 8 speed and diesel Grand Cherokees/Grand Wagoneers will pull Chrysler even further ahead of JapanInc. Then there’s that new Trailhawk……………..

      • 0 avatar
        TRDSmokedU

        Again Bill/Max,

        You know Bill, it’s people like you who really vex me. I know you post under various names such as MAX on autoblog. We all know you hate Toyota. We also know you sell Chryslers. I have read many degrading and often racist post by you on autoblog. Listen, stop posting BS. The JGC is a fine automobile, to which I have an utmost respect for. But do not even try to compare the reliability of the Jeep to a 4Runner. The 4Runner is a very sharp vehicle who stayed true to its roots. I own one and while I love it there are areas that need improvement. Just look compare the stats from carcomplaints.com. The new Jeep in model year 2011 generated 40+ complaints on carcomplaints.com. This is only one site designed for auto complaints. Do you know what the majority of the complaints were for? Engine and electrical issues.

        http://www.carcomplaints.com/Jeep/Grand_Cherokee/2011/

        The 4Runner was redesigned in 2010 and received 1 complaint. In 2011 the 4Runner has 2 complaints listed. For 2012 there are zero complaints.

        http://www.carcomplaints.com/Toyota/4Runner/2010/

        The Jeep certainly excels in many areas but for reliability and resale value it’s doesn’t come close to a 4Runner. But by all means keep drinking koolaid. I do not have any problems with brand loyalty but you are beyond ignorant.

        http://www.kbb.com/new-cars/best-resale-value-awards/best-brand/

        Here are some of your delusion comments:

        https://www.google.com/#q=billfrombuckhead+autoblog&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=imvns&ei=OqZnULv6E4mC8AScxoGwDg&start=10&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=a5299187bc5d23b0&biw=1024&bih=538

        https://www.google.com/#q=billfrombuckhead+racist&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=imvns&ei=jqZnUJOtM4Pa8ATS

      • 0 avatar
        Luke42

        @billfrombuckhead: “The Toyotaphiles and Toyota wage slaves are threatened by Chrysler because Mopar is building cars that people want and are proud of as well passing JapanINc in technology on many fronts.”

        Um, no. As the owner of not one but two blandmobiles (Toyota Prius, Ford/Mazda Escape), I can tell you that other people having fun with the kind of vehicles that you like doesn’t threaten me at all. I’m glad they’re having fun, I guess, but other people are really the last thing on my mind. Getting myself and my wife to work every day, and hauling our kid around, is really what’s on my mind.

        If something else were on my mind, maybe I’d own a car that you like. But it’s not. The practical basics of middle class living are what’s on my mind. I’m at a stage in my life where I need steadfastly reliable appliances with low/predictable operating costs, and that’s what I’ve got (at least from our Toyota).

        “That’s why they’re trying to diss the Grand Cherokee. Nobody is comparing a 4runner to a Land Rover or getting very excited about most of Toyota’s appliances.”

        No, Toyota’s appliances aren’t all that exciting — unless you get excited about getting on with your life instead of getting your car repaired or spending your time earning money for gas (assuming you own a Prius).

        The reason the Grand Cherokee gets the diss is twofold:
        1. It’s a very capable vehicle that doesn’t solve any problems that I actually have.
        2. Most of the JGCs that I’ve seen have been in mall parking lots. (Did you really need a solid-axle 4×4 to get there?!)
        3. The fuel efficiency is too low for me to ever consider owning one. (Keep in mind that the Prius sets my expectations here. Daily.)
        These aren’t things that a practical-minded suburban person with a modesty-complex wants to be associated with.

        Note that where the vehicle was made or designed has nothing to do with it. It all has to do my idea about what the vehicle can do, and what it’s actually used for. Because the Prius is a way better car for going back and forth to the mall — unless you personally happen to need to tow a 5000lb boat over an unimproved road to get to the mall.

        So, while I secretly like the hackability built-for-purpose-ness of Jeeps quite a bit, but those things are going to keep me away from it.

        What I’ve been hearing about the Grand Cherokee CRD though might solve the fuel efficiency problem. Keep in mind that, in my mind, a regular car gets 50MPG. So, if a 33MPG Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD becomes available, then then it’s out of “you have to be f-ing kidding me” territory in terms of MPG and in to “consider if, but only if you have a really good reason” territory. So, if I actually needed a 4×4 or a tow vehicle, I’d have to give it some thought. But, as long as it’s down there in the 18MPG territory, and there’s pavement where I’m going and room in the trunk of the Prius, the value proposition of the JGC still translates to “you’ve got to be f-ing kidding me”

        P.S. You’ve got to get out of Buckhead (and other high-SES neighborhoods like it) more.

      • 0 avatar
        Wheeljack

        The 2011 and newer Grand Cherokee has independent front and rear suspension systems. You need to go back to 2010 models to get a solid rear axle, and for solid axles at both ends of the vehicle you need to go back to 2004.

  • avatar
    Tstag

    What’s with the cheap plastics on the centre console? Personally I’d rather have the LR4 or wait for the new Midsize RR to come out. If anyone has sat in a RR product recently they’d understand why’re interior on this car feels anything but Range Rover like

  • avatar
    FJ60LandCruiser

    With the US-spec Land Cruiser having become a worthless blobular tall wagon ages ago, Land Rovers running around on ridiculous 20” tires, it was only a matter of time before Heep decided to say “screw our off road heritage, no one actually would off road this car” and create their own version of the WBTW.

    Why even bother with a transfer case?

    Ground clearance? Skid plates? Those just add weight and kill handling/fuel economy.

    Even the newest Wranglers have interiors that resemble a Chrysler minivan and cloth you’d cringe if you got a spot of mud on, let alone immersed in 4-5 feet of water.

    This car is a symptom of a disease that really has no cure: money and stupidity…

    • 0 avatar
      el scotto

      The Grand Cherokee is built for people who live in upscale suburbs. The most they’ll be used off-road is going to a fishing spot or parking in the grass at some polo/steeplechase/horsey activity. Will it go through snow and look good at the club? That’s the target market.

    • 0 avatar
      SC5door

      The model tested…at least shown in the picture rides on 18″ wheels with at least some side wall compared to the 20″s and 22″s that LR sells as well as what’s optional on the GC.

      You can also opt for the Trailhawk, with the same 18″ wheels.

      And no the interior on the Wrangler isn’t the same as what’s in the mini-van. You can still pull the carpet out, crank your own windows, and still get a soft top.

  • avatar
    200k-min

    It’s a beautiful design, no denying that, but the fuel economy is A-B-Y-S-M-A-L. These things see suburban duty of trucking kids to soccer practice and weekly trips to the shopping malls. Chrysler should really find a way to squeeze more MPG’s out of this thing, even if it costs towing capacity.

    I tend to agree with the Ford/GM model of moving to the CUV format as it acknowledges the marketplace and what these vehicles are actually used for. Sure, there is a place for BOF SUV’s, but it’s quite miniscule. I think there is room in Jeep’s stable for a hybrid or front drive CUV. Gasoline is $4/gallon where I’m at and most people I know will balk at anything that stuggles to make 20mpg on the highway. Hey Chrysler, it’s 2012 – not 1994.

  • avatar
    danio3834

    In spite of the identical final gear ratio, still expect a 10-15% overall fuel economy bump with the 8 speed. While the final drive may be the same, the additional ratios will keep the engine much closer to the optimal load range when moving through the gears, or down shifting to pass.

  • avatar
    billfrombuckhead

    All this attention from the pro JapanInc anti American crowd shows how well Chrysler is doing.

    BTW, compare Jeep Wrangler resale value to anything Toyota makes.

    • 0 avatar
      TRDSmokedU

      Bill pull your head out of the sand and read this:

      http://www.kbb.com/new-cars/best-resale-value-awards/best-brand/

      Jeep has one vehicle that holds its value, the Wrangler. We are comparing the 4Runner to the JGC. Overall, Toyota destroys Chrysler for resale. You talk about anti-American? I fought for this country, what did you do? Yes in Afghanistan we used Tacoma’s because they didn’t break down like our domestics and they went anywhere we needed them to go.

      http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?57724-Toyota-A-Stan-and-special-forces

      Also FYI Chrysler’s profits support Fiat an Italian company. Therefore Chrysler is every bit as foreign as Toyota, Honda, BMW etc.

      http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120801/AUTO0101/208010316

    • 0 avatar
      Luke42

      @billfrombuckhead: “All this attention from the pro JapanInc anti American crowd shows how well Chrysler is doing.”

      Please quit trying to put stupid words into my smart mouth.

      Any annoyance you hear from the likes of me about the JGC is a reaction to hype about a vehicle that doesn’t address my personal needs very well. When people get in your face about a product you don’t want, it’s natural to be annoyed — and that’s what you’re hearing.

      “BTW, compare Jeep Wrangler resale value to anything Toyota makes.”

      What does that have that have to do with anything? I like the Wrangler because it looks like fun to work on and to dive on weekends — but it’s an incredibly poor fit for my my needs — the engineering tradeoffs of size, weight, ride height, fuel efficiency, and aerodynamics all go the wrong way for my purposes. Accordingly, I won’t consider owning one as long as the Prius is available — because the wrangler is a just worse tool (relatively speaking) for what I do with a car.

      It has nothing to do with the brands, or with being “pro american”. It’s all about the right tool for the job. If the Prius weren’t available and in my driveway right now, the choice between the Civic, Cruze, Focus, Elantra, and Corolla would be an even-fight (since they’re all serious efforts to serve the same needs), and patriotism might be enough to tip the scales. But, there isn’t any serious competition for the Prius in terms of price and efficiency (though that might change in a few months) — so whatever non-practical things you care about just aren’t in to the picture.

      Consider yourself informed about what at least one person who actually buys Japanese cars are ACTUALLY thinking. They’re thinking about solving the problems they have, and the American car makers are welcome to offer suitable products — or not. That’s the free market, get used to it!

  • avatar
    billfrombuckhead

    Chrysler is an American company run from Auburn Hills Michigan. It’s fact you can’t dispute.

    Fiat is now also de facto run from Auburn Hills Michigan by Canadian Sergio Marchionne and American John Elkann and may be enventaully be based in America.

    Chrysler did much to help America win WW2.

    • 0 avatar
      geeber

      I’ll bet that the average customer will view the performance of a manufacturer’s vehicles in a current war as being just a teensy bit more relevant than performance in a conflict that ended almost 70 years ago.

    • 0 avatar
      TRDSmokedU

      Bill I posted the link for proof. Chrysler’s profits assist Fiat in Italy. Fiat in not an American company. It is an Italian company it says right in the name:”Fabbrica Italiana Automobili Torino.” Fiat HQ is in Turin Italy. Fiat owns approx. 61.8% of Chrysler. Sorry pal, Chrysler is now foreign company. Just because Fiat operates in the USA doesn’t make them American. There CEO being Canadian has nothing to do with it either. Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn was born in Brazil but he is the CEO of a Japanese company.

      Yes Sergio has an office in Detroit but he still has an office in Italy an still answers to the Italian Prime Minister:

      http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-25/fiat-s-marchionne-cheered-in-detroit-jeered-in-italy.html

      Toyota, BMW, Hyundai, Nissan, Mercedes, etc. all have headquarters here and overseas. Just like Chrysler/Fiat.

      As for WWII please do not even talk history. You can read my response to you regarding troops in Iraq here on thetruthaboutcars link:

      http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/09/now-its-personal-china-puts-down-toyota-chairman

      Just stop posting BS. I know you hate anything non-domestic which makes you a hypocrite. Hate what you want, but stop posting garbage without proof.
      BTW look at who is gaining market share:

      http://www.domain-b.com/industry/Automobiles/general/20120803_us_market_share.html

    • 0 avatar
      Luke42

      @billfrombuckead: “Chrysler did much to help America win WW2.”

      WW2 ended around the time my mother was born. It was generations ago. It’s fascinating history, and a tragic part of the heritage of many of people I know (in several different ways). But, dude, seriously, it was generations ago.

      So, yeah, Chrysler built stuff to help my grandfather’s friends kill my friend Hans’s grandfather’s friends, who were killing my friend Mosh’s grandfather’s family and my grandfather’s friends. It doesn’t have much to do with the German/American (*cough*) and now Italian/American (*cough* *cough*) company that Chrysler is now. And it doesn’t have any impact on what I think of Chrysler, now. And participating in such a tragic part of history is just that, even though the outcome could have been much worse if things had gone differently.

      • 0 avatar
        billfrombuckhead

        Meanwhile the world’s best army uses Jeep Wranglers!
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep_J8

        Islamic radicals are switching to Chinese trucks. Soon the days of the Taliban Tacoma will be over

        Many Americans don’t want to forget the “War of Southern Rebellion” or the US Civil war. Check out the latest Electoral college map. http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/

        Current headlines also remind us that the Chinese certainly don’t forget WW2 and most of Asia is right with the Chinese in their hard feelings toward a Japan that hasn’t apologized or faced up to it’s war crimes.

      • 0 avatar
        Luke42

        @billfrombuckhead:

        Don’t care. I don’t need to mount a machine gun on my Prius when I go to the local big box store to buy diapers and milk.

        If I were going to start a militia, then what those guys are driving would be relevant. But I’m a Midwestern dad with no militant ambitions. Accordingly, the smallest passenger car that can comfortably and reliably transport my family and our stuff is what I need. Toyota makes the Prius and the Sienna for guys like me.

      • 0 avatar
        PrincipalDan

        @Luke 42, you’ve obviously never been to my local Wal-Mart on payday.

  • avatar
    billfrombuckhead

    “Cheered in Detroit” is enough to make many American auto industry haters and JapanInc followers whine but the hypocrisy of some Americans pushing foreign state socialist corporations over homegrown companies and unions that have tried to play by these fantasyland lassie faire capitalist rules and been punished for it is just the height of present day low information voter stupidity.

    Long and short, the new “Imported from Detroit” Grand Cherokee is the greatest midsize SUV on the planet and a 4runner is an inadequate substitute even according to Consumer Reports. Thank You Barack Obama, Sergio Marchionne, Ralph Gilles, Wolfgang Bernhard, the UAW and a cast of tens of thousand of Americans for this phenomenal vehicle.

    I think it’s obvious many of the haters are really trying to convince themselves that a Toyota is better. It’s hard to go against the Israeli Army and your own lying eyes.

    • 0 avatar
      Luke42

      When a midsized SUV is the wrong tool for the job, it doesn’t matter how good it is.

      Eight years of Toyota ownership with no unscheduled maintenence is a something that I’ve personally experienced. That’s a pretty high bar. Can Jeep achieve that? If they do, I’ll be as impressed with them as I am with Toyota.

      But even if their reliability is as good as Toyota, they don’t make a car that suits my purposes as well as the Prius. They make a couple of cars that compete with my beater-Escape, but the Liberty is 1000lbs overweight and the Patriot/Compass are based on the Caliber. So, Jeep’s.offerings just doesn’t solve my problem.

      That said, I wish I could justify a Wrangler Unlimited as a weekend tinkertoy… But it would be a financial mistake that didn’t provide any practical benefits in.my circumstances. There are situations where Jeeps are the right tool for the job – but I rarely encounter them at this stage in my life.

      • 0 avatar
        billfrombuckhead

        3 new small world leading Jeeps are on the way to compliment the Grand Cherokee.

      • 0 avatar
        Luke42

        I’d love it if Jeep would produce a vehicle that was better for what I need to do than a car I own. But since Jeep is mostly an SUV brand and I don’t really need an SUV, I’m not holding my breath.

        I wanted a high MPG station wagon that can tow my utility trailer. That doesn’t exist, though, so a beater Escape was a sub-optimal daddymobile that solved my kid-hauling problem for cheap. If Jeep can make me a high-MPG daddymobile that can tow a 1500lb trailer with modest/mature styling, I’ll be all over it. I’m basically asking for a Toyota Matrix TDI. But neither the modesty nor the high MPGs go with Jeep’s brand-image, so I’ll be surprised if they build me a car.

        But I do pay attention to what Jeep does, so if they actually make something that can replace either my Prius or my wish-I-had-a-wagon Escape, it will be in the running. But the truth is that Jeep (and Dodge/Chrysler) just haven’t really been interested in attracting customers like me (with the exception of the T&C, which is too big for me for now). That seems to be changing a little bit with the Fiat merger, but I’m not holding my breath for them to beat the Prius, or to make a wagon/crossover that’s compelling enough to get me out of the used market.

        Ford, on the other hand, has really upped their game. The new Escape looks like it solves most of my gripes, and the C-Max might actually he competitive with the Prius. I’m going to test drive a C-Max as soon as one lands in my town. If an American nameplate wants to sell.me a car, all they’ve got to do is build the best car, and Ford has been finally brought their A-game to the US market.

    • 0 avatar
      TRDSmokedU

      As for the world’s best Army, using Jeeps, at one time yes we did have Jeeps. They were not made by Chrysler. As for the J8 it is assembled in Egypt, and will never replace the Tacoma or Hilux. Part of the reasons why we used the Tacoma was to blend in. Also, you can’t kill them. Like most Chryslers I am sure the Jeep would catch on fire under stress.

      Here is the best article about the Hilux and military use:

      http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/10/14/why-rebel-groups-love-the-toyota-hilux.html

      The best quote “It’s not just rebels in Afghanistan that love the Hilux. “The Toyota Hilux is everywhere,” says Andrew Exum, a former Army Ranger and now a fellow of the Center for a New American Security. “It’s the vehicular equivalent of the AK-47. It’s ubiquitous to insurgent warfare. And actually, recently, also counterinsurgent warfare. It kicks the hell out of the Humvee.”

      Better yet Bill, call me when TopGear abuses a Jeep like they did to this Hilux that still runs:

      http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/killing-a-toyota

      And Bill your lack of understanding of American history is disturbing. You think the Chinese are innocent? Did you know that China supported the North Vietnam Army who America was fighting against during the Vietnam War? Did you know that China supported Korea during the Korean War?

      http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/11/26/china.north.korea.ties/index.html

      http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/events/kowar/un-rok/jpn.htm

      Then you want to talk about war crimes? Ask our POWs how the Chinese treated American POWs during the Korean war. Here’s a quote from the US Senate: “American military troops were starved, beaten, and tortured by their Korean and Chinese captors. Every rule set forth in the Geneva Convention was broken when thousands of Americans died at the hands of barbaric Communists in the Korean War”

      http://b-29s-over-korea.com/POWs-In-Korean-War/POWs-In-Korean-War_1.html

      Also as Americans we should not throw stones. The US has committed many war crimes. But you know what Bill, it is not your place to judge anyone. War is hell it does unimaginable things to a person.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_war_crimes

      Also, Japan did sends troops to Iraq. I was there.

      http://www.bing.com/search?q=japanese+troops+in+iraq&FORM=IE8SRC

      You love and support Chrysler which is owned by Italy. FYI, the Italians and Japanese were part of the axis in WWII. Italy was a major player is WWII too sending 320,000 troops. After WWII Japan and Italy have sent support for the USA in every major war. Please for the love of God read a history book.

      You are the only one hating brother. I hope you get past your racism and bias toward others. I am sure you live a very lonely life.

  • avatar
    dancote

    And I thought my RV had a long name: Gulfstream Yellowstone Country Club

  • avatar
    Buckshot

    Are there no moderators here? Are the average TTAC-readers really interested about digging up ww2 ?

    • 0 avatar
      TRDSmokedU

      That was never my intention. I prefer to talk about cars. The problem is buckheadbill will never stay on topic. When he runs out of things to say he makes stuff up. Let’s get back on topic.

  • avatar
    billfrombuckhead

    Let’s keep on the subject that Jeep Grand Cherokee is kicking 4runner butt in sales and profits and Japan subsidizes their industry. It’s fitting Toyota call’s it’s nasty vehicless “TRD”‘s.

    BTW, the Chinese never ate our POW’s for food like Japanese did!
    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-187225.html

    • 0 avatar
      Luke42

      Those are at least are two midsized SUVs.

      You were the one who brought up WW2. You didn’t bring up Hitler, so you weren’t automatically disqualified by Gideon’s Law, but it probably should have applied.

  • avatar
    TRDSmokedU

    Really Bill? Here you go!

    Chinese eat their infant babies for health reasons.

    http://www.weirdasianews.com/2007/04/02/cannibalism-in-china-acceptable-if-for-health/

    The Japanese did eat POWs and their own dead because food supplies were cut off. Native Americans, crazy Americans, slaves, and our some of our troops did the same. Not all Japanese troops ate POWs. Stop with the racist stereotypes Bill. Not all Americans eat humans either.

    Trust me, American is not innocent. Remember the My Lai Massacre in Vietnam where American soldiers killed, raped, tortured, and mutilated woman, children, and elderly. But you have no clue how it is to go to war. So stop bringing up the issues over 70 years ago.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

    You’re right the Jeep sales are great. I am okay with the sales of the 4Runner. That equates to better resale values. Not to mention the 4Runner is much more reliable and better off road the Grand Cherokee. Toyota sales in September were up 41.5%. Chrysler, another foreign car company saw a significant increase too. That’s cool with me. I said earlier, I like Jeeps and Rams.

    BTW Bill you need to learn proper grammar and spelling. I know are uneducated but you really shouldn’t make it that obvious.

  • avatar
    CoreyDL

    If you’re going to put a prestige badge on the seats, make sure the embroidery is perfect. That looks rather sloppy.


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  • Jack Baruth, United States
  • Brendan McAleer, Canada
  • Marcelo De Vasconcellos, Brazil
  • Vojta Dobes, Czech Republic
  • Matthias Gasnier, Australia
  • W. Christian 'Mental' Ward, Abu Dhabi
  • Mark Stevenson, Canada
  • Cameron Aubernon, United States
  • J Emerson, United States